Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-13 Thread Dave Cinege
I build with all quantums now. They run good, fast and usually seems to be a 
good 
deal cooler then a seagate counter part.

The main deciding factor is they have quick warranty turn. Seagates policy is 
CRAP! In the last 9 months I've used about 30 SCSI and IDE Fireballs, and half 
dozen 4gb atlas II. All everything has been 100% out of the box. My personal 
raid 
has been running well over a year with 4 1gb Atlas.
-
http://www.psychosis.com/emc/   Elite MicroComputers   908-541-4214
http://www.psychosis.com/linux-router/  Linux Router Project


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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-13 Thread George Bonser

On 11-Oct-97 Frank Sergeant wrote:
 Do you mean they spin 24/7, that they do not power down
after a period of inactivity?  I have been wondering whether
letting the drives power down (as mine do at the moment) or
having them not power down is better for their longevity.
Also, whether running 24/7 or running just perhaps 14 hours
a day is better.  Anyone have any opinions or data about
this?

Well, it is a matter of electrical vs. mechanical longevity.

If you leave them spinning, they are warmer and might cause the life of some
components to be shorter but if you shut them off and let them cool down, the
lubricant cools and there is more friction at power up till the lubricant heats
up and starts working properly.

If I shut some of my drives down and allow them to cool completely to room
temperature, they make a terrible noise on power-up until they have completely
warmed up.  This is why the noisy drives go into the systems that run 24x7.  If
I hear them, I know there has been a power failure.


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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-13 Thread Joey Hess
Frank Sergeant wrote:
  Do you mean they spin 24/7, that they do not power down
 after a period of inactivity?

Yes.

 I have been wondering whether
 letting the drives power down (as mine do at the moment) or
 having them not power down is better for their longevity.

Good question. I suppose it really depends on how often they are accessed -
all my drives tend to be accessed regularly.

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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-13 Thread Hamish Moffatt
On Sat, Oct 11, 1997 at 08:38:23PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
 Simon Karpen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Which WD drives have you had good luck with?
  I have yet to see a recent one last more than a year...
 
 I have several (3) old Caviar drives.  One is a 170 meg and the other
 two are 540 meg.  One is six years old; the other, probably about 5;
 and the third is about the same.  All worked fine for at least the
 first 4-5 years of their life even though they were powered up
 24/7/365.  The 170 developed some bad sectors about 1/2 year ago; the
 younger 540 meg had the same problem at about the same time.  The
 5-year-old 540 meg is still going strong.
 
 Considering that they were all cheap IDE drives, originally installed
 in a poorly-ventilated case, it is not bad.

I have similar good experiences with WD. I have a 730mb which is nearly
3 years old (light load, 24/7 operation) which works fine; actually
come to think of it I have an old 340mb from about 4-5 years ago
which has been running 24/7 for the last two years with no problems.
The 730 has a bad sector or two and is quite noisy now but is otherwise
fine. I have a 1.6GB in my workstation which is nearly two years old.
I also have a Quantum 3.2Gb of about one year in this machine
and I find the Quantum to be a bit slower. I would probably buy WD again,
although I would want ultra DMA next, or maybe even SCSI (which WD
don't do?)


Hamish

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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-13 Thread Matt Thompson
On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
hello,

i personally have, as my primary drive, an IBM Deskstar 3.6gb. it's *fast*
for an eide drive.  it was rated fastest by a major computing magazine,
although i forget which one.  it definitely lives up to the billing. they
run about $250 new from several outlets (insight, pczone, cdw, etc.)

hope this helps,
matty
 On Sat, Oct 11, 1997 at 08:38:23PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
  Simon Karpen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
   Which WD drives have you had good luck with?
   I have yet to see a recent one last more than a year...
  
  I have several (3) old Caviar drives.  One is a 170 meg and the other
  two are 540 meg.  One is six years old; the other, probably about 5;
  and the third is about the same.  All worked fine for at least the
  first 4-5 years of their life even though they were powered up
  24/7/365.  The 170 developed some bad sectors about 1/2 year ago; the
  younger 540 meg had the same problem at about the same time.  The
  5-year-old 540 meg is still going strong.
  
  Considering that they were all cheap IDE drives, originally installed
  in a poorly-ventilated case, it is not bad.
 
 I have similar good experiences with WD. I have a 730mb which is nearly
 3 years old (light load, 24/7 operation) which works fine; actually
 come to think of it I have an old 340mb from about 4-5 years ago
 which has been running 24/7 for the last two years with no problems.
 The 730 has a bad sector or two and is quite noisy now but is otherwise
 fine. I have a 1.6GB in my workstation which is nearly two years old.
 I also have a Quantum 3.2Gb of about one year in this machine
 and I find the Quantum to be a bit slower. I would probably buy WD again,
 although I would want ultra DMA next, or maybe even SCSI (which WD
 don't do?)
 
 
 Hamish
 
 -- 
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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-13 Thread liiwi
 hello,
 
 i personally have, as my primary drive, an IBM Deskstar 3.6gb. it's *fast*
 for an eide drive.  it was rated fastest by a major computing magazine,
 although i forget which one.  it definitely lives up to the billing. they
 run about $250 new from several outlets (insight, pczone, cdw, etc.)

 [At work] I handled last warranty hassle with IBM drive sometime
 before summer. We sell these 500pcs /year (single, or in computer), 
 all kind, and some with 3 year onsite from us. Sure these cost a little
 more, but I think it's well worth it. If a customer want's something cheaper, 
 then we sell Quatum, but I see these broken at least twice a month -
 no onsite for these. 

 I remember one 20mb Conner drive years ago, that I just had to break -
 hammer: no go - threw it to street from second floor :no go - finally 
 opened it up with screwdriver and voi'la. 

--j




 
 hope this helps,
 matty
  On Sat, Oct 11, 1997 at 08:38:23PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
   Simon Karpen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Which WD drives have you had good luck with?
I have yet to see a recent one last more than a year...
   
   I have several (3) old Caviar drives.  One is a 170 meg and the other
   two are 540 meg.  One is six years old; the other, probably about 5;
   and the third is about the same.  All worked fine for at least the
   first 4-5 years of their life even though they were powered up
   24/7/365.  The 170 developed some bad sectors about 1/2 year ago; the
   younger 540 meg had the same problem at about the same time.  The
   5-year-old 540 meg is still going strong.
   
   Considering that they were all cheap IDE drives, originally installed
   in a poorly-ventilated case, it is not bad.
  
  I have similar good experiences with WD. I have a 730mb which is nearly
  3 years old (light load, 24/7 operation) which works fine; actually
  come to think of it I have an old 340mb from about 4-5 years ago
  which has been running 24/7 for the last two years with no problems.
  The 730 has a bad sector or two and is quite noisy now but is otherwise
  fine. I have a 1.6GB in my workstation which is nearly two years old.
  I also have a Quantum 3.2Gb of about one year in this machine
  and I find the Quantum to be a bit slower. I would probably buy WD again,
  although I would want ultra DMA next, or maybe even SCSI (which WD
  don't do?)
  
  
  Hamish
  
  -- 
  Hamish Moffatt, StudIEAust  [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL 
  PROTECTED]
  Student, computer science  computer systems engineering.3rd year, 
  RMIT.
  http://hamish.home.ml.org/ (PGP key here) CPOM: [* ] 
  56%
  The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.  
  --Bohr
  
  
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 707 S. Grady Wayf-206.430.3420
 Renton, WA  98055   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-12 Thread John Goerzen
Simon Karpen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Which WD drives have you had good luck with?
 
 I have yet to see a recent one last more than a year...

I have several (3) old Caviar drives.  One is a 170 meg and the other
two are 540 meg.  One is six years old; the other, probably about 5;
and the third is about the same.  All worked fine for at least the
first 4-5 years of their life even though they were powered up
24/7/365.  The 170 developed some bad sectors about 1/2 year ago; the
younger 540 meg had the same problem at about the same time.  The
5-year-old 540 meg is still going strong.

Considering that they were all cheap IDE drives, originally installed
in a poorly-ventilated case, it is not bad.

John

 
 --Simon
 
 On 10 Oct 1997, John Goerzen wrote:
 
  I've had nothing but good luck with Seagate and Western Digital.
  Conner, I agree has horrible problems.
  
  Simon Karpen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
   Right now, my personal system has a Micropolis Stinger (5400rpm 4.3GB,
   Ultra SCSI), and hasn't had any problems. The drive is a bit noisy, but
   seems to be very solid. I've never had any real problems with Quantum 
   drives,
   but I can say to stay away from any form of Conner/Seagate/Western Digital
   drives. The failure rates are *horrible*. I've also heard many good things
   about the recent IBM drives.
   
   Simon Karpen  
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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 --Larry McVoy
   
   
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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-12 Thread Jim Pick

 WD is the only brand that I have seen go belly-up without warning.  I am told
 that WD has recognized the problem and has applied fixes.

The only drive I've lost was a WD one.  But I have plenty of other WD drives
that haven't given me any grief.  I've had no problems with my Quantum
drives either.

Cheers,

 - Jim  




pgp3HJUmznkcJ.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-12 Thread Frank Sergeant
 Simon Karpen wrote:
 Looking around, I notice I have a lot of WD drives:
 
 4GB, 4 months old
 1.6GB, 1 year old *
 1.6GB, 2.5 years old
 800MB, approx 4 years old (got second hand)
 200MB, 5 years old
 
 * This drive isn't on 24/7. All the rest are, and most have been for their 
 entire lifespan.

 Do you mean they spin 24/7, that they do not power down
after a period of inactivity?  I have been wondering whether
letting the drives power down (as mine do at the moment) or
having them not power down is better for their longevity.
Also, whether running 24/7 or running just perhaps 14 hours
a day is better.  Anyone have any opinions or data about
this?


  -- Frank
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-11 Thread John Goerzen
I've had nothing but good luck with Seagate and Western Digital.
Conner, I agree has horrible problems.

Simon Karpen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Right now, my personal system has a Micropolis Stinger (5400rpm 4.3GB,
 Ultra SCSI), and hasn't had any problems. The drive is a bit noisy, but
 seems to be very solid. I've never had any real problems with Quantum drives,
 but I can say to stay away from any form of Conner/Seagate/Western Digital
 drives. The failure rates are *horrible*. I've also heard many good things
 about the recent IBM drives.
 
 Simon Karpen  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Fixing Unix is easier than living with NT.
   --Larry McVoy
 
 
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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-11 Thread Bruce Perens
Although I don't have a 4GB one, I have had good luck with the smaller Quantum
Fireball IDE drives. My Western Digital drives have had squeaky bearings right
out of the box. Although some have reported problems with them, my Conner SCSI
drive has been OK, and I think I have a Conner IDE that's OK too. My new 2.1GB
laptop drive is a Seagate, and that works fine so far.

Thanks

Bruce
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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-11 Thread Simon Karpen
Which WD drives have you had good luck with?

I have yet to see a recent one last more than a year...

--Simon

On 10 Oct 1997, John Goerzen wrote:

 I've had nothing but good luck with Seagate and Western Digital.
 Conner, I agree has horrible problems.
 
 Simon Karpen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  Right now, my personal system has a Micropolis Stinger (5400rpm 4.3GB,
  Ultra SCSI), and hasn't had any problems. The drive is a bit noisy, but
  seems to be very solid. I've never had any real problems with Quantum 
  drives,
  but I can say to stay away from any form of Conner/Seagate/Western Digital
  drives. The failure rates are *horrible*. I've also heard many good things
  about the recent IBM drives.
  
  Simon Karpen
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Fixing Unix is easier than living with NT.
  --Larry McVoy
  
  
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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-11 Thread Simon Karpen
I have had bad and good luck with conner IDE, actually; a CFA series 528MB
drive that's 3yr old and still going strong, but a CFS series (slower,
cheaper) 850 that died after about a year.

RPI ACM (not speaking for them) has had a relatively recent (18mo old?)
Conner 2GB SCSI drive have problems that were fixed (i think) by 
exchanging it for a new drive. (either that or a format; i know it was getting
errors and a new one came back a good while later w/o errors)

Seagates tend to least a year or two than fail, from my experience.

--Simon

On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Bruce Perens wrote:

 Although I don't have a 4GB one, I have had good luck with the smaller Quantum
 Fireball IDE drives. My Western Digital drives have had squeaky bearings right
 out of the box. Although some have reported problems with them, my Conner SCSI
 drive has been OK, and I think I have a Conner IDE that's OK too. My new 2.1GB
 laptop drive is a Seagate, and that works fine so far.
 

Simon Karpen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-11 Thread Joey Hess
Simon Karpen wrote:
 Which WD drives have you had good luck with?
 I have yet to see a recent one last more than a year...

How recent?

Looking around, I notice I have a lot of WD drives:

4GB, 4 months old
1.6GB, 1 year old *
1.6GB, 2.5 years old
800MB, approx 4 years old (got second hand)
200MB, 5 years old

None of these drives have ever given me any troubles. The only bad WD drive
I've ever seen was a very old 40 MB drive that was a bit flakey.

I hope I prove you wrong about my 4GB. ;-)

-- 
see shy jo

* This drive isn't on 24/7. All the rest are, and most have been for their 
entire lifespan.


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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-10-11 Thread George Bonser

On 11-Oct-97 Simon Karpen wrote:
Which WD drives have you had good luck with?

I have yet to see a recent one last more than a year...


I replaced a WD last weekend.  I have Maxtor, Quantum and Samsung in my systems
currently.  The oldest is a used 300MB Maxtor that has to be at least 5 years
old. It sticks and makes a lot of noise when it starts up if it is allowed to
cool down but it generally runs 24x7 so that is not a problem.

WD is the only brand that I have seen go belly-up without warning.  I am told
that WD has recognized the problem and has applied fixes.


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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-09-11 Thread Lorens Kockum
On Tue, Sep 09, 1997 at 07:41:28PM -0400, Tommy Lakofski wrote:
 
 I'm using a Seagate 2GB 5400rpm now... hopefully a slow drive won't run
 too hot and kill the bearings... I think if you keep a drive cool it'll
 have a better chance at longevity.

The notice that came with my 7200 rpm Fujitsu M54-summat specified the
maximum operating temperature. Everyone on comp.periphs.scsi said that it
was not a joke, that all 7200 rpm drives had temperature limitations of that
order, and that I could very well fry my drive without a fan. I put in a
thermometer and very quickly decided on a _big_ fan. (An ex-286 power supply
fan, cost 0$0cts :-) ) My drive is _cold_ now :-)

What's this have to do with debian, anyway - I thought Linux was more or
less hardware-independent now ;-)

 If reliability is your primary objective, rather than cost, buy two drives
 and mirror them.

Hear, hear. Not to neglect backups, of course.

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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-09-10 Thread Simon Karpen
Right now, my personal system has a Micropolis Stinger (5400rpm 4.3GB,
Ultra SCSI), and hasn't had any problems. The drive is a bit noisy, but
seems to be very solid. I've never had any real problems with Quantum drives,
but I can say to stay away from any form of Conner/Seagate/Western Digital
drives. The failure rates are *horrible*. I've also heard many good things
about the recent IBM drives.

Simon Karpen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fixing Unix is easier than living with NT.
--Larry McVoy


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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-09-10 Thread Tommy Lakofski
Unfortunately, my experience is somewhat different -- I've had a Quantum
Grand Prix 4.3GB die on me (dead spindle) after 10 months (and my office
had 4 other identical models die with dead spindles and data errors); a
micropolis 1GB ages ago die after 18 months (another dead spindle), and
I've known of WD quality control problems (caviar 1.6GB wrong cleaning
fluid recall...) 

I'm using a Seagate 2GB 5400rpm now... hopefully a slow drive won't run
too hot and kill the bearings... I think if you keep a drive cool it'll
have a better chance at longevity.

If reliability is your primary objective, rather than cost, buy two drives
and mirror them. There's really no other alternative that will drastically
reduce your risk of hardware failure. If you've really got money to burn,
run them on a RAID controller too -- hardware RAID offers performance far
better than software mirroring.

TL

On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Simon Karpen wrote:

 From: Simon Karpen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:26:56 -0400 (EDT)
 Subject: Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive
 
 Right now, my personal system has a Micropolis Stinger (5400rpm 4.3GB,
 Ultra SCSI), and hasn't had any problems. The drive is a bit noisy, but
 seems to be very solid. I've never had any real problems with Quantum drives,
 but I can say to stay away from any form of Conner/Seagate/Western Digital
 drives. The failure rates are *horrible*. I've also heard many good things
 about the recent IBM drives.


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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-09-10 Thread Rob Browning
Terrence Brannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 We would like a SCSI 4GB hard disk to connect to our PC running Debian
 Linux 1.3. We may occassionally want to connect it to our Alpha's running
 Redhat Alpha 4.0. 
 
 We want reliability first. Then cost second.

I've had really good luck with the latest Seaagte Barracudas.  They're
very fast, but quite expensive.  I've also heard that their cheaper
drives might be troublesome.

IBM also apparently has some really good drives now.

-- 
Rob


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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-09-10 Thread Dave Cinege
On Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:41:28 -0400 (EDT), Tommy Lakofski wrote:

Unfortunately, my experience is somewhat different -- I've had a Quantum
Grand Prix 4.3GB die on me (dead spindle) after 10 months (and my office

The Grand Prix was a well know peice of shit, and is no longer made. They 
replaced it with their Atlas line of drives which (the atlas II especially) 
have ran 
very very well.


-
http://www.psychosis.com/emc/   Elite MicroComputers   908-541-4214
http://www.psychosis.com/linux-router/  Linux Router Project


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Re: Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-09-10 Thread Dave Cinege
On 09 Sep 1997 15:07:41 -0700, Terrence Brannon wrote:

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted as well.


We would like a SCSI 4GB hard disk to connect to our PC running Debian
Linux 1.3. We may occassionally want to connect it to our Alpha's running
Redhat Alpha 4.0. 

I've been using Quantums in everything I built in the last year or so. They 
have 
been running 100%. They seem to run a good deal cooler then other 
manufactures in the same class (IE an Atlas runs much cooler the a Seagate 
'Cuda ) The other reason I've been using Quantum is the Warranty turn 
around. When my 2G 'Cuda died on me it was about 3 weeks before I got a 
new drive back from Seagate. Quantum has something like a 2 day turn.

We want reliability first. Then cost second.

Get a DPT HBA and run RAID 6 (0+1). Get 6 2G Fireball ST drives. Nominal 
capacity is 6GB, super redundant, and will blow the doors of a 10,000RPM 
cheetah. This is the extreme...some simplier RAID solutions should also work 
well for you.

Gimme a call if you need someone to build it  (a plug never hurts, right  : )
-
http://www.psychosis.com/emc/   Elite MicroComputers   908-541-4214
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Please recommend a quality 4GB hard drive

1997-09-09 Thread Terrence Brannon
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted as well.


We would like a SCSI 4GB hard disk to connect to our PC running Debian
Linux 1.3. We may occassionally want to connect it to our Alpha's running
Redhat Alpha 4.0. 

We want reliability first. Then cost second.

Thanks,

-- 

  Terrence Brannon * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://quake.usc.edu/~brannon


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