Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On Mon, 12 May 2014 16:48:20 + (UTC) Curt cu...@free.fr wrote: On 2014-05-12, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote: Maybe he's got one of the greens that gets old fast (once very 8 seconds) if steps aren't taken. I have a WD green disk (3GB, IIRC) in my backup server. Could you please elaborate on the steps, and in what ways it gets old quickly? This is actually pretty important because all my backup data is stored there. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_Format#Special_Consideration_for_WD_Green_HDDs I might have gotten lucky. It appears I don't have a WD20EARS. Here's the device model line from smartctl: root@bupserv:/d/bats# smartctl -a /dev/sdb | grep Model Device Model: WDC WD30EZRX-00D8PB0 root@bupserv:/d/bats# And no matter what I read, write or wait, the Load Cycle remains at 247: root@bupserv:/d/bats# smartctl /dev/sdb -a | grep Load_Cycle 193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032 200 200 000Old_age Always - 247 root@bupserv:/d/bats# Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140513175334.4b98eb0f@mydesk
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On 5/13/14, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: On Mon, 2014-05-12 at 16:56 +, Curt wrote: On 2014-05-12, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: This is actually pretty important because all my backup data is stored there. http://www.ngohq.com/news/19805-critical-design-flaw-found-in-wd-caviar-green-hdds.html until Ralf spoke of it here (and my drive had over 500,000 Load_Cycle_Count thingamajiggers--smartctl /dev/sda -a | grep Load_Cycle). I used the idle3ctl tool and turned the feature off completely (but this ain't no production server, or whatever you people call them). Assumed the drive is behind an USB controller and there should be no way to open the case, then, when using GNOME, MATE, XFCE, replacing GVFS by a dummy package could help. But it doesn't help always, from time to time some other software wakes up the sleeping drive. ISTR an old phrase my grandfather spoke: For the love of gvfs is the root of all evil. Or something like that. I remember earlier this year purging gvfs from my systems, since it interferes chronically with encrypted mounts - putting random .meta files _inside_ the mount, and making it difficult (to impossible, since I never found the answer), to do something basic, like, oh, that's right, UNMOUNT! So grab your torches and pitchforks folks! We got ourselves a royal gvfs purgin' ta do! :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caosgnsqr_4ocaf2bffvd+kkpv4q+ojidcb-n9eiaq3_czsr...@mail.gmail.com
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 06:43:16PM -0500, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Hi, I have a 500GB Western Digital hard drive that I bought in 2012 but it has never been unpacked and has been sitting on the shelf all this time. How long can it be considered 'new'? Is it safe to use? So, what could go wrong with a hard drive in storage? Thermal noise could flip some bits on the plater, but that's going to be rare and, with no data on the disk, shouldn't matter a great deal. People talk about lubricants evaporating and causing the motor and/or head to seize, but remember that the drive is designed to run hotter and harder than it will be in storage. Magnetic fields or ESD could damage the control circuitry, but if the drive is still in it's original packaging, then that will protect it from most of what could happen in transit. So, in my estimation, a hard drive should be good to go after 10-20 years on the shelf. Beyond that, it may be more hassle finding a suitable computer to run the drive on than it's worth. At 2 years old, the drive should still be fresh as it was when bought. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On 2014-05-12, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2014 01:43:16 +0200, Hugo Vanwoerkom hvw59...@care2.com wrote: I have a 500GB Western Digital hard drive that I bought in 2012 but it has never been unpacked and has been sitting on the shelf all this time. How long can it be considered 'new'? Is it safe to use? 2 Years in the original packaging on a shelf, in averaged normal conditions = as new and reliable, as a brand spanking new HDD A brand spanking new HDD could fail like an used, very old HDD. Maybe he's got one of the greens that gets old fast (once very 8 seconds) if steps aren't taken. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnln1p1v.335.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On Mon, 12 May 2014 15:10:56 + (UTC) Curt cu...@free.fr wrote: On 2014-05-12, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2014 01:43:16 +0200, Hugo Vanwoerkom hvw59...@care2.com wrote: I have a 500GB Western Digital hard drive that I bought in 2012 but it has never been unpacked and has been sitting on the shelf all this time. How long can it be considered 'new'? Is it safe to use? 2 Years in the original packaging on a shelf, in averaged normal conditions = as new and reliable, as a brand spanking new HDD A brand spanking new HDD could fail like an used, very old HDD. Maybe he's got one of the greens that gets old fast (once very 8 seconds) if steps aren't taken. I have a WD green disk (3GB, IIRC) in my backup server. Could you please elaborate on the steps, and in what ways it gets old quickly? This is actually pretty important because all my backup data is stored there. Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140512123017.6152ffc7@mydesk
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On Mon, 2014-05-12 at 15:10 +, Curt wrote: On 2014-05-12, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2014 01:43:16 +0200, Hugo Vanwoerkom hvw59...@care2.com wrote: I have a 500GB Western Digital hard drive that I bought in 2012 but it has never been unpacked and has been sitting on the shelf all this time. How long can it be considered 'new'? Is it safe to use? 2 Years in the original packaging on a shelf, in averaged normal conditions = as new and reliable, as a brand spanking new HDD A brand spanking new HDD could fail like an used, very old HDD. Maybe he's got one of the greens that gets old fast (once very 8 seconds) if steps aren't taken. Good point! I own a green WD drive. The OP should monitor the drive, assumed it's a green drive, we can help him to take action. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1399912697.681.8.camel@archlinux
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On 13/05/14 02:30, Steve Litt wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2014 15:10:56 + (UTC) Curt cu...@free.fr wrote: On 2014-05-12, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2014 01:43:16 +0200, Hugo Vanwoerkom hvw59...@care2.com wrote: I have a 500GB Western Digital hard drive that I bought in 2012 but it has never been unpacked and has been sitting on the shelf all this time. How long can it be considered 'new'? Is it safe to use? 2 Years in the original packaging on a shelf, in averaged normal conditions = as new and reliable, as a brand spanking new HDD A brand spanking new HDD could fail like an used, very old HDD. Maybe he's got one of the greens that gets old fast (once very 8 seconds) if steps aren't taken. I have a WD green disk (3GB, IIRC) in my backup server. Could you please elaborate on the steps, and in what ways it gets old quickly? This is actually pretty important because all my backup data is stored there. I fed a mouse to an intertube seer... could this be what Curt refers too? http://www.ngohq.com/news/19805-critical-design-flaw-found-in-wd-caviar-green-hdds.html Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5370fa13.6030...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On 2014-05-12, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote: Maybe he's got one of the greens that gets old fast (once very 8 seconds) if steps aren't taken. I have a WD green disk (3GB, IIRC) in my backup server. Could you please elaborate on the steps, and in what ways it gets old quickly? This is actually pretty important because all my backup data is stored there. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_Format#Special_Consideration_for_WD_Green_HDDs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnln1uoi.335.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 2:42 AM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: I fed a mouse to an intertube seer... could this be what Curt refers too? http://www.ngohq.com/news/19805-critical-design-flaw-found-in-wd-caviar-green-hdds.html I don't know about eight seconds as a specific value, but the last time I put a WD Green drive into a server (and, btw, it is the last time I ever will), it wasn't the drive that got old, so much as listening to the complaints of my users: the first time they hit that particular server after a period of idleness, stuff would take *forever* to load up. Of the order of ten seconds just waiting for the disk to spin up, worse in some cases. (Possibly exacerbated by human beings with low timeouts, who would cancel the request and start a new one - resulting in a backlog of requests once the drive finally got going. But still, it was quite a delay.) ChrisA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAPTjJmqb=9s-nvjfuxgapmcx5glcgb+0tib4bxs2e8zq4d7...@mail.gmail.com
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Mon, 2014-05-12 at 15:10 +, Curt wrote: On 2014-05-12, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2014 01:43:16 +0200, Hugo Vanwoerkom hvw59...@care2.com wrote: I have a 500GB Western Digital hard drive that I bought in 2012 but it has never been unpacked and has been sitting on the shelf all this time. How long can it be considered 'new'? Is it safe to use? 2 Years in the original packaging on a shelf, in averaged normal conditions = as new and reliable, as a brand spanking new HDD A brand spanking new HDD could fail like an used, very old HDD. Maybe he's got one of the greens that gets old fast (once very 8 seconds) if steps aren't taken. Good point! I own a green WD drive. The OP should monitor the drive, assumed it's a green drive, we can help him to take action. It is not a green drive. Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/lkqu4r$m2b$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On Mon, 2014-05-12 at 12:30 -0400, Steve Litt wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2014 15:10:56 + (UTC) Curt cu...@free.fr wrote: On 2014-05-12, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2014 01:43:16 +0200, Hugo Vanwoerkom hvw59...@care2.com wrote: I have a 500GB Western Digital hard drive that I bought in 2012 but it has never been unpacked and has been sitting on the shelf all this time. How long can it be considered 'new'? Is it safe to use? 2 Years in the original packaging on a shelf, in averaged normal conditions = as new and reliable, as a brand spanking new HDD A brand spanking new HDD could fail like an used, very old HDD. Maybe he's got one of the greens that gets old fast (once very 8 seconds) if steps aren't taken. I have a WD green disk (3GB, IIRC) in my backup server. Could you please elaborate on the steps, and in what ways it gets old quickly? This is actually pretty important because all my backup data is stored there. I can't turn it off (USB controller + case that can't be opened), so every 30 minutes when the drive want's to sleep, the drive gets touches by gvfs and similar software and get a wake up call, so its spinning down and up every 30 minutes. I installed a dummy package for gvfs, but sometimes, e.g. after using K3b, something else behaves as gvfs would do. Some drives spin down and up every 8 seconds, but assumed you have direct access e.g. by SATA, instead of an USB controller to SATA, you likely can change the settings. There is proprietary software to change the settings and Linux software that can do it. I didn't find it, but it is (at least was) mentioned by an Arch Wiki. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1399913598.681.16.camel@archlinux
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On Mon, 2014-05-12 at 18:53 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Mon, 2014-05-12 at 12:30 -0400, Steve Litt wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2014 15:10:56 + (UTC) Curt cu...@free.fr wrote: On 2014-05-12, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2014 01:43:16 +0200, Hugo Vanwoerkom hvw59...@care2.com wrote: I have a 500GB Western Digital hard drive that I bought in 2012 but it has never been unpacked and has been sitting on the shelf all this time. How long can it be considered 'new'? Is it safe to use? 2 Years in the original packaging on a shelf, in averaged normal conditions = as new and reliable, as a brand spanking new HDD A brand spanking new HDD could fail like an used, very old HDD. Maybe he's got one of the greens that gets old fast (once very 8 seconds) if steps aren't taken. I have a WD green disk (3GB, IIRC) in my backup server. Could you please elaborate on the steps, and in what ways it gets old quickly? This is actually pretty important because all my backup data is stored there. I can't turn it off (USB controller + case that can't be opened), so every 30 minutes when the drive want's to sleep, the drive gets touches by gvfs and similar software and get a wake up call, so its spinning down and up every 30 minutes. I installed a dummy package for gvfs, but sometimes, e.g. after using K3b, something else behaves as gvfs would do. Some drives spin down and up every 8 seconds, but assumed you have direct access e.g. by SATA, instead of an USB controller to SATA, you likely can change the settings. There is proprietary software to change the settings and Linux software that can do it. I didn't find it, but it is (at least was) mentioned by an Arch Wiki. If I've got more time, perhaps next week, I can search again. I can't help you right now. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1399913746.681.18.camel@archlinux
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On 2014-05-12, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: This is actually pretty important because all my backup data is stored there. I fed a mouse to an intertube seer... could this be what Curt refers too? http://www.ngohq.com/news/19805-critical-design-flaw-found-in-wd-caviar-green-hdds.html Yeps. I wasn't aware of the problem until Ralf spoke of it here (and my drive had over 500,000 Load_Cycle_Count thingamajiggers--smartctl /dev/sda -a | grep Load_Cycle). I used the idle3ctl tool and turned the feature off completely (but this ain't no production server, or whatever you people call them). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnln1v74.335.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Mon, 2014-05-12 at 15:10 +, Curt wrote: On 2014-05-12, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: On Mon, 12 May 2014 01:43:16 +0200, Hugo Vanwoerkom hvw59...@care2.com wrote: I have a 500GB Western Digital hard drive that I bought in 2012 but it has never been unpacked and has been sitting on the shelf all this time. How long can it be considered 'new'? Is it safe to use? 2 Years in the original packaging on a shelf, in averaged normal conditions = as new and reliable, as a brand spanking new HDD A brand spanking new HDD could fail like an used, very old HDD. Maybe he's got one of the greens that gets old fast (once very 8 seconds) if steps aren't taken. Good point! I own a green WD drive. The OP should monitor the drive, assumed it's a green drive, we can help him to take action. It is not a green drive. It is a WD5000AAKX Caviar Blue Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/lkqutd$b6f$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On Mon, 2014-05-12 at 16:56 +, Curt wrote: On 2014-05-12, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: This is actually pretty important because all my backup data is stored there. I fed a mouse to an intertube seer... could this be what Curt refers too? http://www.ngohq.com/news/19805-critical-design-flaw-found-in-wd-caviar-green-hdds.html Yeps. I wasn't aware of the problem Because the drives are very silent, we don't hear them. I don't remember, but I guess I noticed it, because the external drive was on the table and the drive's LED stressed me. until Ralf spoke of it here (and my drive had over 500,000 Load_Cycle_Count thingamajiggers--smartctl /dev/sda -a | grep Load_Cycle). I used the idle3ctl tool and turned the feature off completely (but this ain't no production server, or whatever you people call them). Now that I read it, I remember the name too :D. Assumed the drive is behind an USB controller and there should be no way to open the case, then, when using GNOME, MATE, XFCE, replacing GVFS by a dummy package could help. But it doesn't help always, from time to time some other software wakes up the sleeping drive. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1399914577.681.25.camel@archlinux
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On Mon, 2014-05-12 at 11:50 -0500, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: It is not a green drive. That's good. Anyway, a fabrication defect could happen for a new drive and an old drive. Electrostatics or aging of the materials unlikely is an issue. Assumed the shelf was in an unheated room somewhere in Siberia, this likely could damage the drive, but assumed it was on a shelf, in a normal house, on some place on this planet, with moderate environmental conditions, 2 years are nothing. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1399915486.681.31.camel@archlinux
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On 5/11/2014 4:43 PM, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Hi, I have a 500GB Western Digital hard drive that I bought in 2012 but it has never been unpacked and has been sitting on the shelf all this time. How long can it be considered 'new'? Is it safe to use? Hugo Hello, May be a bit off-topic reply. it now only has a shorter warranty from the manufacture. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53715609.1060...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] How long is an unused HD 'new'?
On Mon, 12 May 2014 01:43:16 +0200, Hugo Vanwoerkom hvw59...@care2.com wrote: I have a 500GB Western Digital hard drive that I bought in 2012 but it has never been unpacked and has been sitting on the shelf all this time. How long can it be considered 'new'? Is it safe to use? 2 Years in the original packaging on a shelf, in averaged normal conditions = as new and reliable, as a brand spanking new HDD A brand spanking new HDD could fail like an used, very old HDD. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/op.xfpzr8kkqhadp0@suse11-2
