Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[RavenLX]

On 07/05/2017 08:20 AM, Dejan Jocic wrote:
[snipped original message]


As explained before, settings for unattended-upgrades are in the
/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades. You can set it to download
and install just security updates, which is default. Or, you can set it
to download and install all updates, if you uncomment certain lines, or
add new ones. Think that you can also set it from apper, or
plasma-discover, whatever kde uses these days. Or
software-properties-kde, if it is similar to software-properties-gtk.


I've uninstalled apper and plasma-discover when I did my install because 
I am not into gui-based updating of software. My bad, I guess! KDE seems 
to have installed both of those by default. If I need to make the 
changes, I think I'll go with your suggestion of editing the file.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[David Wright]

On Wed 05 Jul 2017 at 08:09:58 (-0400), RavenLX wrote:
> On 07/01/2017 12:39 PM, David Wright wrote:
> >On Fri 30 Jun 2017 at 22:46:35 (+0200), Dejan Jocic wrote:
> >>On 30-06-17, David Wright wrote:
> >>>
> >>>I'm not sure what this is all about; unattended-upgrades appears
> >>>to have been maintained by the same person since the days of etch,
> >>>a decade ago. What constitutes an advertisement, and how is the
> >>>question posed as to whether updates are automatic or not?
> >>>
> >>>Cheers,
> >>>David.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Probably because unattended-upgrades were not pulled in before
> >>automatically on install of Debian. In Stretch, through some added
> >>recommends, they are installed by default on at least Gnome and KDE
> >>tasks.
> >
> >My points were aimed at two sections: "how did this got to stable
> >without really being advertised properly through those running
> >testing. I was under the impression that for anything other than
> >security-bug-fixes everything goes through the unstable and testing
> >first. This seems as something that appeared behind us."
> >and
> >"An update of apt/synaptics/aptitude could have included
> >the option to consciously choose between auto or manual updates."
> >
> >Neither of those have been addressed.

Still not clear.

> >But on your point of what's pulled in automatically by accepting
> >recommendations, I can't see a great difference between jessie and
> >stretch; either of  task-gnome-desktop  or  task-kde-desktop
> >appears to install  unattended-upgrades  by virtue of the chains
> >of dependencies/recommendations below.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> There's this one difference in my system. In Jessie I was using XFCE
> for my desktop. Now in Stretch, I decided to go with KDE.

… and I think my chain of dependencies may have included Suggests,
which is weaker then Recommends. IIRC with apt-get you have to opt
into Suggests whereas you opt out of Recommends. I don't know the
situation with higher level package frontends.

Cheers,
David.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Dejan Jocic]

On 05-07-17, RavenLX wrote:
> On 06/30/2017 12:34 PM, Dejan Jocic wrote:
> > On 30-06-17, RavenLX wrote:
> > > 
> > > > If you have unattended-upgrades package installed and it is configured
> > > > to fetch and install security updates only ( which is default ), that is
> > > > place to look for upgraded packages. You can also configure
> > > > unattended-upgrades to mail you where there was updates/upgrades and all
> > > > that jazz.
> > > 
> > > How do I go about upgrading then? I don't know of how to do it any other 
> > > way
> > > than via apt-get. Also I don't want to have it email me anything. I 
> > > usually
> > > go to the command line, do a series of commands and upgrade the system. I
> > > would like to continue to do things that way. I do this once a week 
> > > (usually
> > > Thurs. but now I'm switching to Fridays).
> > > 
> > 
> > Well, as you could see from your log, unattended-upgrades did it job and
> > upgraded security packages. If you want to keep those auto
> > updates/upgrades for security packages ( not that you will get much more
> > updates than those now that stretch is stable ), you do not have to do
> > anything. Security updates will be done automatically.
> 
> I saw another security update and went and checked to see what version I had
> installed. It looks like it did in fact automatically install the update.
> 
> While it might be hard to get used to at first, I think I'll leave it as-is
> since this would ensure that my system is automatically up to date on
> security issues.
> 
> Maybe it's a good thing after all and time for me to make a little change in
> my routine? :)
> 
> Would this affect other updates (ie. bug-fix) of packages or is this only
> for the security repo? Should I still do the apt-get routine weekly just in
> case? I would surmise that we probably won't get any 'normal' but fix
> updates for a long time since Stretch was just released?
> 

As explained before, settings for unattended-upgrades are in the
/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades. You can set it to download
and install just security updates, which is default. Or, you can set it
to download and install all updates, if you uncomment certain lines, or
add new ones. Think that you can also set it from apper, or
plasma-discover, whatever kde uses these days. Or
software-properties-kde, if it is similar to software-properties-gtk.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[RavenLX]

On 07/02/2017 10:32 AM, Dejan Jocic wrote:

On 02-07-17, RavenLX wrote:

On 07/01/2017 03:54 PM, Larry Dighera wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 16:31:37 -0400, you wrote:


Someone else mentioned unattended upgrades, which is a thing I have
never used, and which is also a thing I would disable if I ever found
it running.  But that's just me.


I would like to do that but don't know how. Anyone caring to enlighten
me without me having to bother poor old Mr. Google yet again - it would
be appreciated. :)


Perhaps you'll find this useful:


[Snipped script]

Thank you! I will have to give that a try.



If you wish to use the script for that. But simpler solutions were
already given to you. Did you try them?


Probably because I didn't see them until after I made my post (since 
those messages came in after I submitted my reply). :)


I decided after some thought to leave things as-is for now. But it's 
good to know that it's easily changeable if I should wish to do so in 
the future.


Thing is, I don't use the GUI for everything and have plasma-discover 
and plasma-discover-common uninstalled. Where else in the GUI should I 
be able to change this setting (if I want to in the future)?

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[RavenLX]

On 07/01/2017 12:39 PM, David Wright wrote:

On Fri 30 Jun 2017 at 22:46:35 (+0200), Dejan Jocic wrote:

On 30-06-17, David Wright wrote:


I'm not sure what this is all about; unattended-upgrades appears
to have been maintained by the same person since the days of etch,
a decade ago. What constitutes an advertisement, and how is the
question posed as to whether updates are automatic or not?

Cheers,
David.



Probably because unattended-upgrades were not pulled in before
automatically on install of Debian. In Stretch, through some added
recommends, they are installed by default on at least Gnome and KDE
tasks.


My points were aimed at two sections: "how did this got to stable
without really being advertised properly through those running
testing. I was under the impression that for anything other than
security-bug-fixes everything goes through the unstable and testing
first. This seems as something that appeared behind us."
and
"An update of apt/synaptics/aptitude could have included
the option to consciously choose between auto or manual updates."

Neither of those have been addressed.

But on your point of what's pulled in automatically by accepting
recommendations, I can't see a great difference between jessie and
stretch; either of  task-gnome-desktop  or  task-kde-desktop
appears to install  unattended-upgrades  by virtue of the chains
of dependencies/recommendations below.


[snip]

There's this one difference in my system. In Jessie I was using XFCE for 
my desktop. Now in Stretch, I decided to go with KDE.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[RavenLX]

On 06/30/2017 08:54 PM, Jimmy Johnson wrote:

On 06/30/2017 06:56 AM, RavenLX wrote:

I think I might have a problem. I do the sudo apt-get update and then
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade and ever since I have installed Debian 9
(after the official release) I have not seen any updates. Yet in Ubuntu
14.04 server there were updates to the kernel and to Apache. I've been
watching Debian-Security and noticed there are some updates coming up.
But I haven't seen any when I go to do the update.


How did you get sudo? Users do not have sudo rights by default.


When installing, it asks me for a root password and says that if you do 
not provide one, then the user you set up (on the next screens) will be 
granted sudo privileges. This is what I did. Left the Root password 
blank and filled in the user information on the next screen. I prefer 
not to give root any password or access on my systems.



Also, if you used the live dvd it's screwing up apt gpg-keys and you
will not see updates until the keys are fixed.  Or maybe you have some
other kind problems.


I didn't use a live DVD during installation. I used the firmware 
(non-free) version DVD (because my laptops are old and need some of the 
drivers - one needs a non-free firmware driver just to connect to the 
internet).


Seems from what I'm reading here, there were no problems and Stretch 
installed just fine and configured as it was supposed to. I just have to 
get used to doing things a little differently than I'm used to. I was 
used to at least 2 or 3 packages updraded per week on some weeks (and 
some weeks nothing) but that was in the last year of Jessie. Now that 
Stretch is new, I guess I won't see many upgraded packages (if any) for 
awhile. I checked and security updates are being installed automatically 
(as is default). I decided maybe I shouldn't change that "feature" after 
all. Would save me having to do updates manually for the most important 
stuff.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[RavenLX]

On 06/30/2017 12:34 PM, Dejan Jocic wrote:

On 30-06-17, RavenLX wrote:



If you have unattended-upgrades package installed and it is configured
to fetch and install security updates only ( which is default ), that is
place to look for upgraded packages. You can also configure
unattended-upgrades to mail you where there was updates/upgrades and all
that jazz.


How do I go about upgrading then? I don't know of how to do it any other way
than via apt-get. Also I don't want to have it email me anything. I usually
go to the command line, do a series of commands and upgrade the system. I
would like to continue to do things that way. I do this once a week (usually
Thurs. but now I'm switching to Fridays).



Well, as you could see from your log, unattended-upgrades did it job and
upgraded security packages. If you want to keep those auto
updates/upgrades for security packages ( not that you will get much more
updates than those now that stretch is stable ), you do not have to do
anything. Security updates will be done automatically.


I saw another security update and went and checked to see what version I 
had installed. It looks like it did in fact automatically install the 
update.


While it might be hard to get used to at first, I think I'll leave it 
as-is since this would ensure that my system is automatically up to date 
on security issues.


Maybe it's a good thing after all and time for me to make a little 
change in my routine? :)


Would this affect other updates (ie. bug-fix) of packages or is this 
only for the security repo? Should I still do the apt-get routine weekly 
just in case? I would surmise that we probably won't get any 'normal' 
but fix updates for a long time since Stretch was just released?

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Dejan Jocic]

On 02-07-17, RavenLX wrote:
> On 07/01/2017 03:54 PM, Larry Dighera wrote:
> > On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 16:31:37 -0400, you wrote:
> > 
> > > > Someone else mentioned unattended upgrades, which is a thing I have
> > > > never used, and which is also a thing I would disable if I ever found
> > > > it running.  But that's just me.
> > > 
> > > I would like to do that but don't know how. Anyone caring to enlighten
> > > me without me having to bother poor old Mr. Google yet again - it would
> > > be appreciated. :)
> > 
> > Perhaps you'll find this useful:
> 
> [Snipped script]
> 
> Thank you! I will have to give that a try.
> 

If you wish to use the script for that. But simpler solutions were
already given to you. Did you try them?

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[RavenLX]

On 07/01/2017 03:54 PM, Larry Dighera wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 16:31:37 -0400, you wrote:


Someone else mentioned unattended upgrades, which is a thing I have
never used, and which is also a thing I would disable if I ever found
it running.  But that's just me.


I would like to do that but don't know how. Anyone caring to enlighten
me without me having to bother poor old Mr. Google yet again - it would
be appreciated. :)


Perhaps you'll find this useful:


[Snipped script]

Thank you! I will have to give that a try.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Joel Rees]

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 5:10 AM, Dejan Jocic  wrote:
> On 01-07-17, Larry Dighera wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 16:31:37 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> >> Someone else mentioned unattended upgrades, which is a thing I have
>> >> never used, and which is also a thing I would disable if I ever found
>> >> it running.  But that's just me.
>> >
>> >I would like to do that but don't know how. Anyone caring to enlighten
>> >me without me having to bother poor old Mr. Google yet again - it would
>> >be appreciated. :)
>>
>> Perhaps you'll find this useful:
>>
>> ===
>> # auto-update-on-off.sh   This script will enable and disable
>> unattended-updates
>> #
>> # LGD: Thu Jun  1 15:00:09 PDT 2017
>> #
>>
>> [[ $# != 1 ]] && echo -e "\n\t\"$@\" Unknown\n\tUsage: $0 
>> \n\t\tWhere:  e = Enable\n\t\t\td = Disable\n\t\t\ts = Status" >&2 &&
>> exit 1
>>
>> FILNAM="/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic"
>> OFF="APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade \"0\";"
>> ON="APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade \"1\";"
>>
>> status(){ # Get current status
>>   if [[ -s "$FILNAM" ]] ;then # Does file exist with >0 file
>> length?
>> [[ $(grep -qs 1 "$FILNAM") ]] && STATUS=Enabled
>> [[ $(grep -qs 0 "$FILNAM") ]] && STATUS=Disabled
>>   else
>> STATUS="Not Configured (Disabled)"
>>   fi
>>   return $STATUS
>> }
>>
>>
>> case $1 in
>>   -[sS]*) status; echo "Current $0 status: $STATUS">&2;exit 0 ;;
>>   -[dD]*) echo "$OFF" >/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic ;;
>>   -[eE]*) echo "$ON"  >/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic ;;
>>   *) echo -e "\n\t\"$@\" Unknown\n\tUsage: $0  \n\t\tWhere:  e
>> = Enable\n\t\t\td = Disable\n\t\t\ts = Status" >&2 && exit 1
>> esac
>>
>> =
>>
>
> Why would you do that? Write and use script to change one 0/1 in
> /etc/apt/apt.conf/20auto-upgrades? Or even 2, in case that you change
> both for update and upgrade. Not to mention that those using gnome
> software or some kde equivalent can do it in GUI too.

At any rate, the script seems to show where the flags are and what
they look like.

-- 
Joel Rees

One of these days I'll get someone to pay me
to design a language that combines the best of Forth and C.
Then I'll be able to leap wide instruction sets with a single #ifdef,
run faster than a speeding infinite loop with a #define,
and stop all integer size bugs with my bare cast.
http://defining-computers.blogspot.com/2017/06/reinventing-computers.html

More of my delusions:
http://reiisi.blogspot.com/2017/05/do-not-pay-modern-danegeld-ransomware.html
http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/p/novels-i-am-writing.html

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Dejan Jocic]

On 01-07-17, Larry Dighera wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 16:31:37 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> >> Someone else mentioned unattended upgrades, which is a thing I have
> >> never used, and which is also a thing I would disable if I ever found
> >> it running.  But that's just me.
> >
> >I would like to do that but don't know how. Anyone caring to enlighten 
> >me without me having to bother poor old Mr. Google yet again - it would 
> >be appreciated. :)
> 
> Perhaps you'll find this useful:
> 
> ===
> # auto-update-on-off.sh   This script will enable and disable
> unattended-updates
> #
> # LGD: Thu Jun  1 15:00:09 PDT 2017
> #
> 
> [[ $# != 1 ]] && echo -e "\n\t\"$@\" Unknown\n\tUsage: $0 
> \n\t\tWhere:  e = Enable\n\t\t\td = Disable\n\t\t\ts = Status" >&2 &&
> exit 1 
> 
> FILNAM="/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic"
> OFF="APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade \"0\";" 
> ON="APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade \"1\";" 
> 
> status(){ # Get current status
>   if [[ -s "$FILNAM" ]] ;then # Does file exist with >0 file
> length?
> [[ $(grep -qs 1 "$FILNAM") ]] && STATUS=Enabled
> [[ $(grep -qs 0 "$FILNAM") ]] && STATUS=Disabled
>   else
> STATUS="Not Configured (Disabled)"
>   fi
>   return $STATUS
> }
> 
> 
> case $1 in 
>   -[sS]*) status; echo "Current $0 status: $STATUS">&2;exit 0 ;;
>   -[dD]*) echo "$OFF" >/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic ;;
>   -[eE]*) echo "$ON"  >/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic ;;
>   *) echo -e "\n\t\"$@\" Unknown\n\tUsage: $0  \n\t\tWhere:  e
> = Enable\n\t\t\td = Disable\n\t\t\ts = Status" >&2 && exit 1 
> esac  
> 
> =
> 

Why would you do that? Write and use script to change one 0/1 in
/etc/apt/apt.conf/20auto-upgrades? Or even 2, in case that you change
both for update and upgrade. Not to mention that those using gnome
software or some kde equivalent can do it in GUI too.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 16:31:37 -0400, you wrote:

>> Someone else mentioned unattended upgrades, which is a thing I have
>> never used, and which is also a thing I would disable if I ever found
>> it running.  But that's just me.
>
>I would like to do that but don't know how. Anyone caring to enlighten 
>me without me having to bother poor old Mr. Google yet again - it would 
>be appreciated. :)

Perhaps you'll find this useful:

===
# auto-update-on-off.sh This script will enable and disable
unattended-updates
#
# LGD: Thu Jun  1 15:00:09 PDT 2017
#

[[ $# != 1 ]] && echo -e "\n\t\"$@\" Unknown\n\tUsage: $0 
\n\t\tWhere:  e = Enable\n\t\t\td = Disable\n\t\t\ts = Status" >&2 &&
exit 1 

FILNAM="/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic"
OFF="APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade \"0\";" 
ON="APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade \"1\";" 

status(){   # Get current status
  if [[ -s "$FILNAM" ]] ;then   # Does file exist with >0 file
length?
[[ $(grep -qs 1 "$FILNAM") ]] && STATUS=Enabled
[[ $(grep -qs 0 "$FILNAM") ]] && STATUS=Disabled
  else
STATUS="Not Configured (Disabled)"
  fi
  return $STATUS
}


case $1 in 
  -[sS]*) status; echo "Current $0 status: $STATUS">&2;exit 0   ;;
  -[dD]*) echo "$OFF" >/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic   ;;
  -[eE]*) echo "$ON"  >/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic   ;;
  *) echo -e "\n\t\"$@\" Unknown\n\tUsage: $0  \n\t\tWhere:  e
= Enable\n\t\t\td = Disable\n\t\t\ts = Status" >&2 && exit 1 
esac  

=

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[David Wright]

On Fri 30 Jun 2017 at 22:46:35 (+0200), Dejan Jocic wrote:
> On 30-06-17, David Wright wrote:
> > 
> > I'm not sure what this is all about; unattended-upgrades appears
> > to have been maintained by the same person since the days of etch,
> > a decade ago. What constitutes an advertisement, and how is the
> > question posed as to whether updates are automatic or not?
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > David.
> > 
> 
> Probably because unattended-upgrades were not pulled in before
> automatically on install of Debian. In Stretch, through some added
> recommends, they are installed by default on at least Gnome and KDE
> tasks.

My points were aimed at two sections: "how did this got to stable
without really being advertised properly through those running
testing. I was under the impression that for anything other than
security-bug-fixes everything goes through the unstable and testing
first. This seems as something that appeared behind us."
and
"An update of apt/synaptics/aptitude could have included
the option to consciously choose between auto or manual updates."

Neither of those have been addressed.

But on your point of what's pulled in automatically by accepting
recommendations, I can't see a great difference between jessie and
stretch; either of  task-gnome-desktop  or  task-kde-desktop
appears to install  unattended-upgrades  by virtue of the chains
of dependencies/recommendations below.

jessie:

unattended-upgrades ['education-common', 'python-software-properties', 
'python3-software-properties']

python3-software-properties ['software-properties-common', 
'software-properties-gtk', 'software-properties-kde']

software-properties-gtk ['synaptic']
software-properties-kde ['apper']

synaptic ['apt', 'aptoncd', 'cinnamon-desktop-environment', 
'education-desktop-gnome', 'education-desktop-lxde', 'education-desktop-mate', 
'education-desktop-other', 'task-gnome-desktop', 'task-lxde-desktop', 
'task-mate-desktop', 'task-xfce-desktop']

apper ['apper-dbg', 'browser-plugin-packagekit', 'gstreamer1.0-packagekit', 
'packagekit-gtk3-module', 'task-kde-desktop']

stretch:

unattended-upgrades ['education-common', 'parl-desktop', 'plinth', 
'python3-software-properties']

python3-software-properties ['software-properties-common', 
'software-properties-gtk', 'software-properties-kde']

software-properties-gtk ['gnome-packagekit', 'gnome-software', 'synaptic']
software-properties-kde ['apper', 'plasma-discover']

synaptic ['apt', 'cinnamon-desktop-environment', 'education-desktop-gnome', 
'education-desktop-lxde', 'education-desktop-mate', 'education-desktop-other', 
'mate-menu', 'task-gnome-desktop', 'task-lxde-desktop', 'task-lxqt-desktop', 
'task-mate-desktop', 'task-xfce-desktop']

apper ['gstreamer1.0-packagekit', 'packagekit-gtk3-module', 'task-kde-desktop']

Cheers,
David.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Jimmy Johnson]

On 06/30/2017 06:56 AM, RavenLX wrote:

I think I might have a problem. I do the sudo apt-get update and then
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade and ever since I have installed Debian 9
(after the official release) I have not seen any updates. Yet in Ubuntu
14.04 server there were updates to the kernel and to Apache. I've been
watching Debian-Security and noticed there are some updates coming up.
But I haven't seen any when I go to do the update.


How did you get sudo? Users do not have sudo rights by default.

Also, if you used the live dvd it's screwing up apt gpg-keys and you 
will not see updates until the keys are fixed.  Or maybe you have some 
other kind problems.

--
Jimmy Johnson

Debian Stretch - KDE Plasma 5.8.6 - Intel G3220 - EXT4 at sda7
Registered Linux User #380263

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Joel Rees]

(Not looking for answers, just using the list to remind myself of
something in the future.)

On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:05 AM, Dejan Jocic  wrote:
> On 30-06-17, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 06:34:49PM +0200, Dejan Jocic wrote:
>> > If you want to
>> > prevent automatic upgrades and disable them, because you want to do it
>> > manually like you are used to, you should edit file
>> > /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades and change it from this:
>> >
>> > APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1";
>> > APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "1";
>> >
>> > to this:
>> >
>> > APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "0";
>> > APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "0";
>>
>> Or you can just remove the unattended-upgrades package, right?
>>
>
> Sure, if you want to.

[mark (reiisi): python-dependencies ]

> On gnome, it is pulled in because of
> gnome-packagekit which recommends software-properties-gtk which depends
> on python3-software-properties which recommends unattended-upgrades.

[end-mark]

> Personally would leave it on, because I like to have it in case that I
> become lazy with my daily routine and because I like to look at various
> things and understand how they work. But if OP does not need it, it is
> safe to remove/purge it.
>
>
>



-- 
Joel Rees

One of these days I'll get someone to pay me
to design a language that combines the best of Forth and C.
Then I'll be able to leap wide instruction sets with a single #ifdef,
run faster than a speeding infinite loop with a #define,
and stop all integer size bugs with my bare cast.
http://defining-computers.blogspot.com/2017/06/reinventing-computers.html

More of my delusions:
http://reiisi.blogspot.com/2017/05/do-not-pay-modern-danegeld-ransomware.html
http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/p/novels-i-am-writing.html

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Dejan Jocic]

On 30-06-17, David Wright wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure what this is all about; unattended-upgrades appears
> to have been maintained by the same person since the days of etch,
> a decade ago. What constitutes an advertisement, and how is the
> question posed as to whether updates are automatic or not?
> 
> Cheers,
> David.
> 

Probably because unattended-upgrades were not pulled in before
automatically on install of Debian. In Stretch, through some added
recommends, they are installed by default on at least Gnome and KDE
tasks.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[David Wright]

On Fri 30 Jun 2017 at 15:43:45 (-0400), Fungi4All wrote:
> > From: wool...@eeg.ccf.org
> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 06:34:49PM +0200, Dejan Jocic wrote:
> >> If you want to
> >> prevent automatic upgrades and disable them, because you want to do it
> >> manually like you are used to, you should edit file
> >> /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades and change it from this:
> >>
> >> APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1";
> >> APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "1";
> >>
> >> to this:
> >>
> >> APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "0";
> >> APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "0";
> > Or you can just remove the unattended-upgrades package, right?
> 
> If someone installed Stretch from scratch last week got the 
> unattended-upgrades
> package but those who were running stretch for a while before it became
> stable did not get it and have to install it. Would this be correct, because
> I've had several updated packages since then.
> I'm writing this from a different system so I can not go back and actually
> check but I am wondering how it works security wise. I assume it runs
> as a timed service through systemd and has admin privileges.
> The question that sticks to mind, if the above assumptions are correct,
> is how did this got to stable without really being advertised properly
> through those running testing. I was under the impression that for
> anything other than security-bug-fixes everything goes through the
> unstable and testing first. This seems as something that appeared
> behind us. An update of apt/synaptics/aptitude could have included
> the option to consciously choose between auto or manual updates.

I'm not sure what this is all about; unattended-upgrades appears
to have been maintained by the same person since the days of etch,
a decade ago. What constitutes an advertisement, and how is the
question posed as to whether updates are automatic or not?

Cheers,
David.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[RavenLX]

On 06/30/2017 10:30 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 10:24:15AM -0400, RavenLX wrote:

Here's what's on the system:

ravenlx@hpg7:~$ uname -r
4.9.0-3-amd64


That only tells you the package name, not the version.  Use "uname -a"
to get the actual running version,


ravenlx@hpg7:~$ uname -a
Linux hpg7 4.9.0-3-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.30-2+deb9u2 (2017-06-26) 
x86_64 GNU/Linux



or "dpkg -l linux-image\* | cat"
to get the installed kernel versions.


ravenlx@hpg7:~$ dpkg -l linux-image\* | cat
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| 
Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend

|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name  Version Architecture Description
+++-=-===--===
un  linux-image(no 
description available)
ii  linux-image-4.9.0-3-amd64 4.9.30-2+deb9u2 amd64Linux 4.9 for 
64-bit PCs
ii  linux-image-amd64 4.9+80  amd64Linux for 
64-bit PCs (meta-package)



Someone else mentioned unattended upgrades, which is a thing I have
never used, and which is also a thing I would disable if I ever found
it running.  But that's just me.


I would like to do that but don't know how. Anyone caring to enlighten 
me without me having to bother poor old Mr. Google yet again - it would 
be appreciated. :)

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Dejan Jocic]

On 30-06-17, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 06:34:49PM +0200, Dejan Jocic wrote:
> > If you want to
> > prevent automatic upgrades and disable them, because you want to do it
> > manually like you are used to, you should edit file
> > /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades and change it from this:
> > 
> > APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1";
> > APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "1";
> > 
> > to this:
> > 
> > APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "0";
> > APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "0";
> 
> Or you can just remove the unattended-upgrades package, right?
> 

Sure, if you want to. On gnome, it is pulled in because of
gnome-packagekit which recommends software-properties-gtk which depends
on python3-software-properties which recommends unattended-upgrades.
Personally would leave it on, because I like to have it in case that I
become lazy with my daily routine and because I like to look at various
things and understand how they work. But if OP does not need it, it is
safe to remove/purge it.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Fungi4All]

> From: wool...@eeg.ccf.org
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 06:34:49PM +0200, Dejan Jocic wrote:
>> If you want to
>> prevent automatic upgrades and disable them, because you want to do it
>> manually like you are used to, you should edit file
>> /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades and change it from this:
>>
>> APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1";
>> APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "1";
>>
>> to this:
>>
>> APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "0";
>> APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "0";
> Or you can just remove the unattended-upgrades package, right?

If someone installed Stretch from scratch last week got the unattended-upgrades
package but those who were running stretch for a while before it became
stable did not get it and have to install it. Would this be correct, because
I've had several updated packages since then.
I'm writing this from a different system so I can not go back and actually
check but I am wondering how it works security wise. I assume it runs
as a timed service through systemd and has admin privileges.
The question that sticks to mind, if the above assumptions are correct,
is how did this got to stable without really being advertised properly
through those running testing. I was under the impression that for
anything other than security-bug-fixes everything goes through the
unstable and testing first. This seems as something that appeared
behind us. An update of apt/synaptics/aptitude could have included
the option to consciously choose between auto or manual updates.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 06:34:49PM +0200, Dejan Jocic wrote:
> If you want to
> prevent automatic upgrades and disable them, because you want to do it
> manually like you are used to, you should edit file
> /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades and change it from this:
> 
> APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1";
> APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "1";
> 
> to this:
> 
> APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "0";
> APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "0";

Or you can just remove the unattended-upgrades package, right?

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Dejan Jocic]

On 30-06-17, RavenLX wrote:
> 
> > If you have unattended-upgrades package installed and it is configured
> > to fetch and install security updates only ( which is default ), that is
> > place to look for upgraded packages. You can also configure
> > unattended-upgrades to mail you where there was updates/upgrades and all
> > that jazz.
> 
> How do I go about upgrading then? I don't know of how to do it any other way
> than via apt-get. Also I don't want to have it email me anything. I usually
> go to the command line, do a series of commands and upgrade the system. I
> would like to continue to do things that way. I do this once a week (usually
> Thurs. but now I'm switching to Fridays).
> 

Well, as you could see from your log, unattended-upgrades did it job and
upgraded security packages. If you want to keep those auto
updates/upgrades for security packages ( not that you will get much more
updates than those now that stretch is stable ), you do not have to do
anything. Security updates will be done automatically. If you want to
prevent automatic upgrades and disable them, because you want to do it
manually like you are used to, you should edit file
/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades and change it from this:

APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1";
APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "1";

to this:

APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "0";
APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "0";

If you want to keep those unattended upgrades working, settings are in
/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades. For further reading and
explanation look here:

https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades 

https://linux-audit.com/using-unattended-upgrades-on-debian-and-ubuntu/

or just duckgogo/google it, there are few nice explanations.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[songbird]

RavenLX wrote:

> I think I might have a problem. I do the sudo apt-get update and then 
> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade and ever since I have installed Debian 9 
> (after the official release) I have not seen any updates. Yet in Ubuntu 
> 14.04 server there were updates to the kernel and to Apache. I've been 
> watching Debian-Security and noticed there are some updates coming up. 
> But I haven't seen any when I go to do the update.
>
> More info:
...

  um, stretch is stable?  :)

  i'm not sure how often you should see
updates to packages other than through the
security process and then after each point
release.

  by contrast, today in testing was fairly
busy with about 70 packages for my system
being changed.


  songbird

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 10:24:15AM -0400, RavenLX wrote:
> Here's what's on the system:
> 
> ravenlx@hpg7:~$ uname -r
> 4.9.0-3-amd64

That only tells you the package name, not the version.  Use "uname -a"
to get the actual running version, or "dpkg -l linux-image\* | cat"
to get the installed kernel versions.

Someone else mentioned unattended upgrades, which is a thing I have
never used, and which is also a thing I would disable if I ever found
it running.  But that's just me.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[RavenLX]

On 06/30/2017 10:06 AM, Dejan Jocic wrote:

On 30-06-17, RavenLX wrote:

I think I might have a problem. I do the sudo apt-get update and then sudo
apt-get dist-upgrade and ever since I have installed Debian 9 (after the
official release) I have not seen any updates. Yet in Ubuntu 14.04 server
there were updates to the kernel and to Apache. I've been watching
Debian-Security and noticed there are some updates coming up. But I haven't
seen any when I go to do the update.


[snipped info I already gave]


Start with dpkg -s unattended-upgrades

If that is installed, check as root/with sudo:

# cat /var/log/unattended-upgrades/unattended-upgrades.log


Here's what I got:

ravenlx@hpg7:~$ sudo dpkg -s unattended-upgrades
Package: unattended-upgrades
Status: install ok installed
Priority: optional
Section: admin
Installed-Size: 246
Maintainer: Michael Vogt 
Architecture: all
Version: 0.93.1+nmu1
Depends: debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, init-system-helpers (>= 1.18~), 
debconf, python3, python3-apt, apt-utils, apt, ucf, lsb-release, 
lsb-base (>= 3.2-14), xz-utils

Recommends: cron | cron-daemon | anacron
Suggests: bsd-mailx, mail-transport-agent, needrestart
Conffiles:
 /etc/init.d/unattended-upgrades 290829a5efc55b7c435de0bb769f217b
 /etc/kernel/postinst.d/unattended-upgrades 
b74a4f1a1fe2e350aec97f472c25e0bb

 /etc/logrotate.d/unattended-upgrades e45049ee847f069a99e3e6ec39155d4a
 /etc/pm/sleep.d/10_unattended-upgrades-hibernate 
d4ebdc2a2fdfeea33e6cd39812a85c3a

Description: automatic installation of security upgrades
 This package can download and install security upgrades automatically
 and unattended, taking care to only install packages from the
 configured APT source, and checking for dpkg prompts about
 configuration file changes.
 .
 This script is the backend for the APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade
 option.

ravenlx@hpg7:~$ sudo cat 
/var/log/unattended-upgrades/unattended-upgrades.log

2017-06-26 10:44:53,533 INFO Initial blacklisted packages:
2017-06-26 10:44:53,533 INFO Initial whitelisted packages:
2017-06-26 10:44:53,534 INFO Starting unattended upgrades script
2017-06-26 10:44:53,534 INFO Allowed origins are: 
['origin=Debian,codename=stretch,label=Debian-Security']
2017-06-26 10:44:59,045 INFO No packages found that can be upgraded 
unattended and no pending auto-removals

2017-06-27 08:25:02,089 INFO Initial blacklisted packages:
2017-06-27 08:25:02,101 INFO Initial whitelisted packages:
2017-06-27 08:25:02,102 INFO Starting unattended upgrades script
2017-06-27 08:25:02,102 INFO Allowed origins are: 
['origin=Debian,codename=stretch,label=Debian-Security']
2017-06-27 08:25:07,323 INFO No packages found that can be upgraded 
unattended and no pending auto-removals

2017-06-28 06:34:25,955 INFO Initial blacklisted packages:
2017-06-28 06:34:25,967 INFO Initial whitelisted packages:
2017-06-28 06:34:25,968 INFO Starting unattended upgrades script
2017-06-28 06:34:25,968 INFO Allowed origins are: 
['origin=Debian,codename=stretch,label=Debian-Security']
2017-06-28 06:37:31,352 INFO Packages that will be upgraded: 
linux-compiler-gcc-6-x86 linux-headers-4.9.0-3-amd64 
linux-headers-4.9.0-3-common linux-image-4.9.0-3-amd64 linux-kbuild-4.9 
linux-libc-dev
2017-06-28 06:37:31,353 INFO Writing dpkg log to 
'/var/log/unattended-upgrades/unattended-upgrades-dpkg.log'

2017-06-28 06:38:50,686 INFO All upgrades installed
2017-06-29 08:57:46,133 INFO Initial blacklisted packages:
2017-06-29 08:57:46,146 INFO Initial whitelisted packages:
2017-06-29 08:57:46,146 INFO Starting unattended upgrades script
2017-06-29 08:57:46,147 INFO Allowed origins are: 
['origin=Debian,codename=stretch,label=Debian-Security']
2017-06-29 08:57:51,337 INFO No packages found that can be upgraded 
unattended and no pending auto-removals

2017-06-30 08:12:38,490 INFO Initial blacklisted packages:
2017-06-30 08:12:38,503 INFO Initial whitelisted packages:
2017-06-30 08:12:38,503 INFO Starting unattended upgrades script
2017-06-30 08:12:38,504 INFO Allowed origins are: 
['origin=Debian,codename=stretch,label=Debian-Security']
2017-06-30 08:12:43,802 INFO No packages found that can be upgraded 
unattended and no pending auto-removals



If you have unattended-upgrades package installed and it is configured
to fetch and install security updates only ( which is default ), that is
place to look for upgraded packages. You can also configure
unattended-upgrades to mail you where there was updates/upgrades and all
that jazz.


How do I go about upgrading then? I don't know of how to do it any other 
way than via apt-get. Also I don't want to have it email me anything. I 
usually go to the command line, do a series of commands and upgrade the 
system. I would like to continue to do things that way. I do this once a 
week (usually Thurs. but now I'm switching to Fridays).

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[RavenLX]

On 06/30/2017 10:04 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 09:56:16AM -0400, RavenLX wrote:

I think I might have a problem. I do the sudo apt-get update and then sudo
apt-get dist-upgrade and ever since I have installed Debian 9 (after the
official release) I have not seen any updates.



Here is my sources.list:

# Security
deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free

# Main
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free


Hmm.  Well, that looks correct.


Am I really missing any updates?


Probably the easiest to check is the kernel.  If you're on amd64, and
if you're truly up to date on stretch fixes, then you should have:

linux-image-4.9.0-3-amd64  4.9.30-2+deb9u2


Here's what's on the system:

ravenlx@hpg7:~$ uname -r
4.9.0-3-amd64


Note that +deb9u1 and +deb9u2 were quite close together.  +deb9u2
reverted the "stack guard gap" fix from +deb9u1 and replaced it with a
different fix that didn't cause regressions.

If you really aren't getting updates when you run "apt-get update", and
there are no errors, then I'm not sure how to diagnose this.


Me neither. No errors at all:

ravenlx@hpg7:~$ sudo apt-get update
[sudo] password for ravenlx:
Ign:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch InRelease
Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates InRelease 

Ign:3 http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb stable InRelease 

Hit:4 http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb stable Release 

Hit:5 http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-backports InRelease 

Hit:6 http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian stretch InRelease 

Hit:7 http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch Release 

Hit:8 http://security.debian.org stretch/updates InRelease 

Hit:9 https://repo.skype.com/deb stable InRelease 


Reading package lists... Done

All looks good.

So maybe these security updates are for the older versions??

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Dejan Jocic]

On 30-06-17, RavenLX wrote:
> I think I might have a problem. I do the sudo apt-get update and then sudo
> apt-get dist-upgrade and ever since I have installed Debian 9 (after the
> official release) I have not seen any updates. Yet in Ubuntu 14.04 server
> there were updates to the kernel and to Apache. I've been watching
> Debian-Security and noticed there are some updates coming up. But I haven't
> seen any when I go to do the update.
> 
> More info:
> 
> I'm using KDE in Debian 9 (Stretch).
> I did NOT install the "KDE" desktop when installing Debian 9. Intead I
> installe the kde desktop package *only* via the command line after
> installing Debian 9. This way I minimized a lot of the bulk and didn't have
> to install application I don't use (like juk and okular, for example).
> 
> - I have removed plasma-discover and plasma-discover-common because I prefer
> to do things the old-fashioned way - via the command prompt.
> 
> Here is my sources.list:
> 
> # Security
> deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
> 
> # Main
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
> 
> # stretch-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib non-free
> 
> # Backports
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-backports main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-backports main contrib
> non-free
> 
> Am I really missing any updates? Or is there something wrong in my system? I
> really hate to install that plasma updater widget just to get updates.
> 

Start with dpkg -s unattended-upgrades

If that is installed, check as root/with sudo:

# cat /var/log/unattended-upgrades/unattended-upgrades.log

If you have unattended-upgrades package installed and it is configured
to fetch and install security updates only ( which is default ), that is
place to look for upgraded packages. You can also configure
unattended-upgrades to mail you where there was updates/upgrades and all
that jazz.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 09:56:16AM -0400, RavenLX wrote:
> I think I might have a problem. I do the sudo apt-get update and then sudo
> apt-get dist-upgrade and ever since I have installed Debian 9 (after the
> official release) I have not seen any updates.

> Here is my sources.list:
> 
> # Security
> deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
> 
> # Main
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free

Hmm.  Well, that looks correct.

> Am I really missing any updates?

Probably the easiest to check is the kernel.  If you're on amd64, and
if you're truly up to date on stretch fixes, then you should have:

linux-image-4.9.0-3-amd64  4.9.30-2+deb9u2

Note that +deb9u1 and +deb9u2 were quite close together.  +deb9u2
reverted the "stack guard gap" fix from +deb9u1 and replaced it with a
different fix that didn't cause regressions.

If you really aren't getting updates when you run "apt-get update", and
there are no errors, then I'm not sure how to diagnose this.

Re: [Stretch] apt-get has no updates?

[Herb Garcia]

On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:56:16 -0400
RavenLX  wrote:

> I think I might have a problem. I do the sudo apt-get update and then 
> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade and ever since I have installed Debian 9 
> (after the official release) I have not seen any updates. Yet in
> Ubuntu 14.04 server there were updates to the kernel and to Apache.
> I've been watching Debian-Security and noticed there are some updates
> coming up. But I haven't seen any when I go to do the update.
> 
> More info:
> 
> I'm using KDE in Debian 9 (Stretch).
> I did NOT install the "KDE" desktop when installing Debian 9. Intead
> I installe the kde desktop package *only* via the command line after 
> installing Debian 9. This way I minimized a lot of the bulk and
> didn't have to install application I don't use (like juk and okular,
> for example).
> 
> - I have removed plasma-discover and plasma-discover-common because I 
> prefer to do things the old-fashioned way - via the command prompt.
> 
> Here is my sources.list:
> 
> # Security
> deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib
> non-free
> 
> # Main
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
> 
> # stretch-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib
> non-free deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main
> contrib non-free
> 
> # Backports
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-backports main contrib
> non-free deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-backports main
> contrib non-free
> 
> Am I really missing any updates? Or is there something wrong in my 
> system? I really hate to install that plasma updater widget just to
> get updates.
> 

I'm wondering the same thing as well.

HP Garcia