Re: How to ifdown ... on squeeze?
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com writes: You can also use nmcli to take down and bring up your NIC. Can you show a usage of bringing up/down the network? With this in /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf [main] plugins=ifupdown,keyfile [ifupdown] managed=false That does mean that ifupdown is not in charge .. right? ---- ---=--- - It seems not to work here. For example: Man page shows nmcli con list (to get a list of CONFIGURED connections; wrapped for mail): NAME UUID Wired connection 1897c8cd7-b708-4ee4-9123-fcb6d7917edd TYPE TIMESTAMP-REAL 802-3-ethernetFri 28 Oct 2011 04:28:21 AM CDT Ok fine... so far, but then: nmcli con down uuid 897c8cd7-b708-4ee4-9123-fcb6d7917edd Warning: Connection not active ---- ---=--- - Huh? Supposedly all connections were listed in the `list' cmd. We've taken the exact UUID shown and yet are told that connection is not in use... but no others are listed. And then (wrapped for mail): nmcli nm status RUNNING STATE WIFI-HARDWARE WIFI running disconnectedenabled enabled WWAN-HARDWARE WWAN enabled disabled But of course, I am live: ping -c1 google.com PING google.com (74.125.225.82) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from ord08s07-in-f18.1e100.net (74.125.225.82): icmp_req=1 ttl=54 time=15.8 ms --- google.com ping statistics --- 1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 0ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 15.833/15.833/15.833/0.000 ms ---- ---=--- - Is there no sure file and simple way to bring a network up/down? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87hb2gqhb2@newsguy.com
Re: How to ifdown ... on squeeze?
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:17 AM, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote: Tom H wrote: Dan B. wrote: On a new installation of squeeze, ifdown no longer works as it used to (on my old Debian system). This is because by default with a GNOME desktop installed Debian has switched away from ifupdown and over to NetworkManager because GNOME by default specifies NetworkManager. If you don't install GNOME then you won't get NetworkManager and the behavior will be traditional Debian ifupdown. There is a lot of discussion about this in the mailing list archives. It has been controversial. NM's a GNOME project application so it's normal that they've made GNOME default to it... NM's only controversial because there are people who oppose change not matter why it might be. The NM developers haven't done themselves any favors by not providing server-type features like bonding... When ifconfig lists an interface eth0, neither ifdown eth0 nor ifdown eth takes the interface down. The attempts yield: ifdown: interface eth0 not configured and ifdown: interface eth not configured. How does one take an interface down on squeeze? The expected tool on a GNOME system would be by using the NetworkManager GUI with the mouse or as Tom writes, 'nmcli' from the command line. Something like this: # nmcli conn down id 'Auto eth0' # nmcli conn up id 'Auto eth0' I gave a CLI answer because the request was for ifupdown so I assumed a CLI method was being sought. The NM GUI's definitely the way to go if you have a GUI. Also: The reason I was trying to take it down and back up was to trigger a fresh DHCP query and corresponding host-name configuration. When NM controls your connections, NICs aren't defined in /etc/network/interfaces, by default; you can change that behavior by changing the managed variable of the ifupdown section of /etc/NetworkManager/networkmanager.conf. You can also use nmcli to take down and bring up your NIC. My recommendation is to edit that commented out line and remove it from NetworkManager's control and return it to ifupdown's control. You have to be careful with editing /etc/network/interfaces. If you don't have managed set to true in /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf or /etc/NetworkManager/networkmanager.conf (depending on the NM version), the interface won't be managed by NM. So, if /etc/init.d/networking isn't enabled too (if that's possible), NICs'll have to be brought up manually with ifup. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=SxZ8L9vZqLuq3GxkYqqG4E=ugvwairj5+euu3b8nfo...@mail.gmail.com
Re: How to ifdown ... on squeeze?
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Harry Putnam rea...@newsguy.com wrote: Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com writes: You can also use nmcli to take down and bring up your NIC. Can you show a usage of bringing up/down the network? With this in /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf [main] plugins=ifupdown,keyfile [ifupdown] managed=false That does mean that ifupdown is not in charge .. right? No. It means that ifupdown is in charge rather than NM - as long as you have the interfaces listed in /etc/network/interfaces. See my previous email. It seems not to work here. For example: Man page shows nmcli con list (to get a list of CONFIGURED connections; wrapped for mail): NAME UUID Wired connection 1897c8cd7-b708-4ee4-9123-fcb6d7917edd TYPE TIMESTAMP-REAL 802-3-ethernetFri 28 Oct 2011 04:28:21 AM CDT Ok fine... so far, but then: nmcli con down uuid 897c8cd7-b708-4ee4-9123-fcb6d7917edd Warning: Connection not active ---- ---=--- - Huh? Supposedly all connections were listed in the `list' cmd. We've taken the exact UUID shown and yet are told that connection is not in use... but no others are listed. And then (wrapped for mail): nmcli nm status RUNNING STATE WIFI-HARDWARE WIFI running disconnectedenabled enabled WWAN-HARDWARE WWAN enabled disabled But of course, I am live: ping -c1 google.com PING google.com (74.125.225.82) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from ord08s07-in-f18.1e100.net (74.125.225.82): icmp_req=1 ttl=54 time=15.8 ms --- google.com ping statistics --- 1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 0ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 15.833/15.833/15.833/0.000 ms ---- ---=--- - Is there no sure file and simple way to bring a network up/down? Bob showed a good way of using nmcli in a previous email. I've used it with connection names in the past but never with UUIDs but it should work if you've set up /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/NetworkManager/... properly.
Re: How to ifdown ... on squeeze?
Tom H wrote: Bob Proulx wrote: Tom H wrote: Dan B. wrote: On a new installation of squeeze, ifdown no longer works as it used to (on my old Debian system). This is because by default with a GNOME desktop installed Debian has switched away from ifupdown and over to NetworkManager because GNOME by default specifies NetworkManager. If you don't install GNOME then you won't get NetworkManager and the behavior will be traditional Debian ifupdown. There is a lot of discussion about this in the mailing list archives. It has been controversial. NM's a GNOME project application so it's normal that they've made GNOME default to it... Yes. But why should a low level operation such as a network management process be part of a desktop manager? That is part of the fundamental design problem. Instead the operating system should handle it and the desktop should interface to it. GNOME subsuming the task itself pushes GNOME further into being an operating system itself. It muddies the modularity between the component parts and pushes everything all into one pile. That isn't good design. NM's only controversial because there are people who oppose change not matter why it might be. The NM developers haven't done themselves any favors by not providing server-type features like bonding... No. NM is controversial because it stops networking in the middle of an upgrade.(!?) When the upgrade was being performed logged in over the network with ssh this kills the upgrade and prevents you from logging in again to fix it. You can only go touch the hardware and fix it. Which is very, very, *very*, bad. I was burned by this. The latest version may have fixed that grave bug but any time you make that kind of mistake then you deserve to be publicly flogged for it for a long time regardless of whether a fix is now, after all of this time, available in a new release which may or may not be available in Stable. NM is controversial when it crashes at the drop of a hat. It often can't connect, can't connect, and then the process dies and needs to be restarted. Sometimes this seems to cause dbus to need to be restarted. Repeat this several times until it stops crashing. This is on Stable which isn't GNOME 3 and so there may be a fix available in the later code but it won't be available to Stable for a while. NM is controversial because it only handles a subset of networking cases but takes over the functionality for everything anyway. I will stop there. When ifconfig lists an interface eth0, neither ifdown eth0 nor ifdown eth takes the interface down. The attempts yield: ifdown: interface eth0 not configured and ifdown: interface eth not configured. How does one take an interface down on squeeze? The expected tool on a GNOME system would be by using the NetworkManager GUI with the mouse or as Tom writes, 'nmcli' from the command line. Something like this: # nmcli conn down id 'Auto eth0' # nmcli conn up id 'Auto eth0' I gave a CLI answer because the request was for ifupdown so I assumed a CLI method was being sought. The NM GUI's definitely the way to go if you have a GUI. I thought your suggestion of nmcli was great. Except there wasn't an example given along with it. That was the only missing part. (Using the GUI is fine too.) Examples are really useful and for things that aren't quite obvious such as the need to identify the interface by Auto eth0 instead of simply eth0. That is *yet another* annoying aspect of NM. :-) Also: The reason I was trying to take it down and back up was to trigger a fresh DHCP query and corresponding host-name configuration. When NM controls your connections, NICs aren't defined in /etc/network/interfaces, by default; you can change that behavior by changing the managed variable of the ifupdown section of /etc/NetworkManager/networkmanager.conf. You can also use nmcli to take down and bring up your NIC. My recommendation is to edit that commented out line and remove it from NetworkManager's control and return it to ifupdown's control. You have to be careful with editing /etc/network/interfaces. If you don't have managed set to true in /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf or /etc/NetworkManager/networkmanager.conf (depending on the NM version), the interface won't be managed by NM. It is perfectly fine for you to recommend the opposite position. In which case please simply state it as such. Just say that you recommend people stick with NetworkManager. Just say that people should accept it and learn how to drive it fully. That is fine. We each are entitled to our respective opinions and recommendations. But in the above response it reads like you are correcting or improving or clarifying what I said. But you are not. Instead you are working at cross purposes to it. Please don't do that. Following the thread it might lead someone to flipflop the control back
Re: How to ifdown ... on squeeze?
NM's only controversial because there are people who oppose change not matter why it might be. The NM developers haven't done themselves any favors by not providing server-type features like bonding... No, it's also controversial for other reasons. In my case, I have issues with it because it was designed for the there's exactly one user case. The multi-user case (as well as the nobody is logged in case) were only bolted on later and AFAIK those still don't really work right (e.g. last I tried you can only have one nm-applet running at a time). The problem here is that GNU/Linux is a multi-user system, so NM's basic design was fundamentally wrong, and it can be difficult to fix such problem after the fact. Stefan whose machines often have more than 1 user logged -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/jwvmxc7vm1r.fsf-monnier+gmane.linux.debian.u...@gnu.org
Re: How to ifdown ... on squeeze?
On Mon, 07 Nov 2011 11:28:37 -0500, Tom H wrote: (...) NM's only controversial because there are people who oppose change not matter why it might be. The NM developers haven't done themselves any favors by not providing server-type features like bonding... (...) Just a quick okay, but I have to fully agree with other user's opinions in this regard. Is not that users are opposing to any change regardless the benefits it can provide but NM has been -during many time (years?)- buggy and experienced an erratic behaviour and networking is a key piece of every desktop (no need to mention servers). So when users are seeing that their network settings are not applied or that they are deleted or overriden, or DHCP is not working well or... is when they complain :-) Today we can say we have a quite good NM service but we've been wandering in a dark age not so long ago. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.11.07.18.31...@gmail.com
Re: How to ifdown ... on squeeze?
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com writes: [main] plugins=ifupdown,keyfile [ifupdown] managed=false That does mean that ifupdown is not in charge .. right? No. It means that ifupdown is in charge rather than NM - as long as you have the interfaces listed in /etc/network/interfaces. See my previous email. Boy is that not apparent. But at least I can now follow what is happening. ifupdown will indeed bring up or down my network... I must have `interfaces' at least close to right? ---- ---=--- - /etc/network/interfaces # The loopback network interface auto lo iface lo inet loopback # The primary network interface allow-hotplug eth0 iface eth0 inet dhcp ---- ---=--- - /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf [main] plugins=ifupdown,keyfile [ifupdown] managed=false ---- ---=--- - Dan, with what is above in /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf Does ifup and ifdown then work? I'm not sure if you'd need a reboot or what... hopefully not. Can anyone say if you change over from one method to another... what it takes to get the OS to recognize that fact? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87bosn8z8x@newsguy.com
Re: How to ifdown ... on squeeze?
Bob Proulx wrote: Tom H wrote: Dan B. wrote: ... How does one take an interface down on squeeze? The expected tool on a GNOME system would be by using the NetworkManager GUI with the mouse or as Tom writes, 'nmcli' from the command line. Something like this: # nmcli conn down id 'Auto eth0' # nmcli conn up id 'Auto eth0' (with a commented-out line: #NetworkManager#iface eth0 inet dhcp For the background of that comment see the bug report here: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=530024#49 ... When NM controls your connections, NICs aren't defined in /etc/network/interfaces, by default; you can change that behavior by changing the managed variable of the ifupdown section of /etc/NetworkManager/networkmanager.conf. You can also use nmcli to take down and bring up your NIC. My recommendation is to edit that commented out line and remove it from NetworkManager's control and return it to ifupdown's control. ... Thanks. Yes, I'll probably take control back to normal Linux commands. Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4eb850d1.3000...@kempt.net
Re: How to ifdown ... on squeeze?
Tom H wrote: ... NM's only controversial because there are people who oppose change not matter why it might be. ... So are you lumping people who oppose having things break out from under them, such as, say, someone installing a new release and finding that standard Unix(?)/Linux networking commands no longer work, into your people who oppose change [no] matter why category? As Bob wrote elsewhere), a more (newbie-)user-friendly layer (e.g., GNOME components) should call the standard interface, not break it. Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4eb85316.40...@kempt.net
Re: How to ifdown ... on squeeze?
On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Dan B. d...@kempt.net wrote: On a new installation of squeeze, ifdown no longer works as it used to (on my old Debian system). When ifconfig lists an interface eth0, neither ifdown eth0 nor ifdown eth takes the interface down. The attempts yield: ifdown: interface eth0 not configured and ifdown: interface eth not configured. How does one take an interface down on squeeze? (My old system's /etc/network/interfaces had: ... auto eth0 iface eth0 inet dhcp On my squeeze system, it's: ... allow-hotplug eth0 (with a commented-out line: #NetworkManager#iface eth0 inet dhcp ) ) Also: The reason I was trying to take it down and back up was to trigger a fresh DHCP query and corresponding host-name configuration. When NM controls your connections, NICs aren't defined in /etc/network/interfaces, by default; you can change that behavior by changing the managed variable of the ifupdown section of /etc/NetworkManager/networkmanager.conf. You can also use nmcli to take down and bring up your NIC. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=syh1vwqdefq1dxchs-i82gqbz5ckh-p+x6r+s_41v8...@mail.gmail.com
Re: How to ifdown ... on squeeze?
Tom H wrote: Dan B. wrote: On a new installation of squeeze, ifdown no longer works as it used to (on my old Debian system). This is because by default with a GNOME desktop installed Debian has switched away from ifupdown and over to NetworkManager because GNOME by default specifies NetworkManager. If you don't install GNOME then you won't get NetworkManager and the behavior will be traditional Debian ifupdown. There is a lot of discussion about this in the mailing list archives. It has been controversial. When ifconfig lists an interface eth0, neither ifdown eth0 nor ifdown eth takes the interface down. The attempts yield: ifdown: interface eth0 not configured and ifdown: interface eth not configured. How does one take an interface down on squeeze? The expected tool on a GNOME system would be by using the NetworkManager GUI with the mouse or as Tom writes, 'nmcli' from the command line. Something like this: # nmcli conn down id 'Auto eth0' # nmcli conn up id 'Auto eth0' (with a commented-out line: #NetworkManager#iface eth0 inet dhcp For the background of that comment see the bug report here: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=530024#49 Also: The reason I was trying to take it down and back up was to trigger a fresh DHCP query and corresponding host-name configuration. When NM controls your connections, NICs aren't defined in /etc/network/interfaces, by default; you can change that behavior by changing the managed variable of the ifupdown section of /etc/NetworkManager/networkmanager.conf. You can also use nmcli to take down and bring up your NIC. My recommendation is to edit that commented out line and remove it from NetworkManager's control and return it to ifupdown's control. See the mailing list archives for lots of discussion of this issue. See this next reference for the details of that particular line. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_basic_syntax_of_etc_network_interfaces Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
