Re: probably silly Question

[gene heskett]

On 8/27/22 12:21, Stefan Monnier wrote:

What sort of hoops would I have to take a running swan dive thru to
have cura, on this machine, directly drive /sshnet/rock64/dev/ttyACM0,
my Prusa MK3S+ printer? I'm already logged into it over my local net
twice and it would sure save me a lot of sneakernetting to get
a design from OpenSCAD, thru cura to slice it ad into printed PETG+CF
on its build plate.

You might be able to get this working using `socat` or maybe `ser2net`,
but I don't know enough about such printers to be sure.
I suspect that the possible timing issues introduced by a network
connection might be problematic.  I suspect that the command that
actively drives the ttyACM0 device will be happier if it can live on
your rock64 machine.


I mean what good is all this networking if it can't be used?

Usually I do things like `ssh  printcmd` to save myself from having
to go through that kind of healthy physical exercise.


 Stefan
Thanks Stefan.   I think I've got octoprint working again. But its 
obviously not a multiple
printer friendly since the output port it will use is not in the printer 
profile, but in main.
I've got 2 rock64's, but not a monitor/keyboard/mouse switcher. So I 
could setup a 2nd
rock64 if I had room for the extra keyboard, monitor and mouse. Or a kvm 
switch.


I'm closer to having the ender5plus working as the printrun kit's 
pronsole, which doesn't
need the gui, connects to and has configured the Ender5plus now, so now 
I need to
make a bass ackwards prox switch act like a BLTouch. So if I setup a 2nd 
rock64 with octoprint,
and get the bed leveling working on the Ender5plus, I'll be in hog 
heaven. Then I can use

mc to copy cura's output to the correct rock64 for an automatic print.

So I'm off to find a kvm switch.

Take care and stay well,

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

probably silly Question

[gene heskett]

Greetings all;

My local home network is all behind a router running dd-wrt. sitting in 
this chair,
3 rooms away from a rock64 running armbian, I can see the rock64's 
/dev/ttyACM0, owned
by root:dialout.  I am a member of that group and logged into it from 
here. My home net

is 100% host file based.

What sort of hoops would I have to take a running swan dive thru to have 
cura, on this machine,
directly drive /sshnet/rock64/dev/ttyACM0, my Prusa MK3S+ printer? I'm 
already logged into it
over my local net twice and it would sure save me a lot of 
sneakernetting to get a design
from OpenSCAD, thru cura to slice it ad into printed PETG+CF on its 
build plate.


I mean what good is all this networking if it can't be used?

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Fixed: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key

[Reco]

Hi.

On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 10:27:43AM +0200, Martin wrote:
> It's the ibus...something.
> No idea what this does¹, but disabling/uninstalling this does the trick.

Long story short, unless you're writing in Chinese, Japanese or Korean -
you don't need ibus.

Reco

Fixed: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key

[Martin]

It's the ibus...something.
No idea what this does¹, but disabling/uninstalling this does the trick.

1) I know, there is documentation...

Re: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key

[rlharris]

On 2019.04.08 14:25, Dan Ritter wrote:

IBM Buckling Spring: nobody knows, but there are a lot of
keyboards still working 25-30 years later.

Cherry: 50 million.

https://www.cherrymx.de/_Resources/Persistent/e005dff11a2e406babe9e8718fec9fc8835bb9ce/EN_CHERRY_MX_BLUE_RGB.pdf

Kailh: 50 - 80 million.

http://www.kailh.com/en/Products/Mechanical_keyboard_switch/165.html

Matias ALPS: 50 million.

http://matias.ca/switches/click/

Gaterons may be as low as 20 million.

You can buy all of the above today, in keyboards ranging from
about $60 to $450.


I had in mind a boxful of Logitech and Kessington keyboards purchased 
several years ago, as well as two Cherry purchased last year.


The Cherry specifications gave me high hopes regarding Cherry, and I 
paid a good price for the Cherry; but the switches of two of the three I 
purchased new are beginning to fail.


The old IBM you mention, of course, is of the category I mentioned, a 
design of another era.


As to keystroke specifications, I must question current test procedures. 
 In years past, I have experienced key plunger binding long before 
contact failure was evident.  Plunger design does not always take into 
account the reality of lateral force on the keycap.  The application of 
lubricant is no substitute for proper material selection regarding 
plunger and tube or body.  Nowadays, contact failure seems to be the 
primary failure mode.  Many factors must be considered in the design of 
a keyswitch.


Only with a warranty which provides advance replacement with no-charge 
delivery and return would I consider paying much over a hundred dollars 
for a keyboard.  When the cost of return shipping by UPS, FEDEX, or USPS 
is taken into account, a lifetime warranty on a $25 or $50 keyboard is 
meaningless.


RLH

Re: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key

[Dan Ritter]

rlhar...@oplink.net wrote: 
> On 2019.04.08 05:29, Martin wrote:
> > since a few days, my qq(´) and qq(´)¹ don't work with a single
> > press.  I have to press twice.
> 
> The problem most likely is oxidation of the electrical contacts of the key
> switch.  The silver or gold plating of the contact surfaces may be
> compromised by mechanical wear.
> 
> Back in the 1970's, keyswitches were rated in terms of tens of millions or
> hundreds of millions of keystrokes; keyswitches of today are rated in terms
> of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of keystrokes.  Search and
> read the manufacturer specification sheets for keyswitches.


IBM Buckling Spring: nobody knows, but there are a lot of
keyboards still working 25-30 years later.

Cherry: 50 million.

https://www.cherrymx.de/_Resources/Persistent/e005dff11a2e406babe9e8718fec9fc8835bb9ce/EN_CHERRY_MX_BLUE_RGB.pdf

Kailh: 50 - 80 million.

http://www.kailh.com/en/Products/Mechanical_keyboard_switch/165.html

Matias ALPS: 50 million.

http://matias.ca/switches/click/

Gaterons may be as low as 20 million.

You can buy all of the above today, in keyboards ranging from
about $60 to $450.

-dsr-

Re: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key

[rlharris]

On 2019.04.08 05:29, Martin wrote:

since a few days, my qq(´) and qq(´)¹ don't work with a single
press.  I have to press twice.


The problem most likely is oxidation of the electrical contacts of the 
key switch.  The silver or gold plating of the contact surfaces may be 
compromised by mechanical wear.


Back in the 1970's, keyswitches were rated in terms of tens of millions 
or hundreds of millions of keystrokes; keyswitches of today are rated in 
terms of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of keystrokes.  
Search and read the manufacturer specification sheets for keyswitches.


A factor which exacerbates the situation is the ongoing effort to reduce 
energy consumption; nowadays voltages across keyswitch contacts can be 
too low to break through oxidation and the currents flowing through 
contacts may be too low to burn off the oxidation.


Research years ago by Honeywell Corporation revealed that gold-plated 
contacts are not always a good approach.  Though gold does not oxidize, 
the presence of oil vapour in the atmosphere can result in formation of 
an insulating polymer on gold contact surfaces.  Silver contacts appear 
to be the proper approach; silver oxide is conductive.


Mechanic design of the contacts also is a factor; when the contacts are 
bars or rods which cross at an angle, the contact pressure is higher 
pressure than if the contacts are in the shape of buttons.  The pressure 
helps break through oxidation.


Some manufacturers offer "lifetime" keyboards; but the lifetime in view 
appears to be that of the keyboard and not of the user.  Keyboards today 
can have a useful lifetime measured in months.  Much depends upon the 
environment in which the keyboard is used, particularly the atmospheric 
humidity.


The proper approach to the problem of low voltage and low current would 
be to design keyboards in which the keyswitch contact voltage and 
current are an order-of-magnitude higher than the voltage and current of 
the logic circuitry.


RLH

Re: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key

[Martin]

Am 08.04.19 um 14:05 schrieb Eike Lantzsch:
> On Monday, April 8, 2019 12:29:44 PM -04 Martin wrote:
>> Hi list,
>>
>> since a few days, my qq(´) and qq(´)¹ don't work with a single press. I have
>> to press twice. Who can tell me why?
>> And, ho do I get my old single press behavior back?
>> Sorry I don't get this keyboard magic in this life...
>>
>> 1) On a German keyboard, it is the key left of the backspace.
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Martin
> 
> Hi Martin,
> do I understand correctly
> a single press gave you ´ and with shift `?

No, it is like composing a letter: Typing ´ once does nothing, second time, it 
gives you the character.

> so you were not able to write á and à by pressing the qq and then a?
> Now one qq press and then a gives á?
> Double press of qq now results in ´?
> 
> The latter is the normal behaviour of my Gerrman keyboard layout. For me it's 
> useful because in a Spanish-speaking country I often need the accented 
> characters. This is with layout "German (dead grave acute)".

I use 'nodeadkeys'.

> You need to install "German (eliminate dead grave acute)" in your X-setup. I 
> don't know about xfce but for me it is enough to change this in the KDE setup.

Well, it worked since 206 with this install. It just recently changed.

> For programming and for the shell the behaviour with a single-press ´ is 
> better of course.
> 
> I have no idea why this may have changed. Maybe look through the upgrade 
> protocolls of apt, if you want to know what happened. If you have more than 
> one keyboard layout installed (as I have) then a certain key-combination 
> might 
> have changed it unadvertently.
> 
> Have success and a nice day 

Thanks.
As it is such a nice day, I will finish my work soon and go to the Biergarten a 
couple of minutes across. Cheers!

Re: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key

[Eike Lantzsch]

On Monday, April 8, 2019 12:29:44 PM -04 Martin wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> since a few days, my qq(´) and qq(´)¹ don't work with a single press. I have
> to press twice. Who can tell me why?
> And, ho do I get my old single press behavior back?
> Sorry I don't get this keyboard magic in this life...
> 
> 1) On a German keyboard, it is the key left of the backspace.
> 
> 
> Thanks, Martin

Hi Martin,
do I understand correctly
a single press gave you ´ and with shift `?
so you were not able to write á and à by pressing the qq and then a?
Now one qq press and then a gives á?
Double press of qq now results in ´?

The latter is the normal behaviour of my Gerrman keyboard layout. For me it's 
useful because in a Spanish-speaking country I often need the accented 
characters. This is with layout "German (dead grave acute)".

You need to install "German (eliminate dead grave acute)" in your X-setup. I 
don't know about xfce but for me it is enough to change this in the KDE setup.

For programming and for the shell the behaviour with a single-press ´ is 
better of course.

I have no idea why this may have changed. Maybe look through the upgrade 
protocolls of apt, if you want to know what happened. If you have more than 
one keyboard layout installed (as I have) then a certain key-combination might 
have changed it unadvertently.

Have success and a nice day 

-- 
Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE
Agencia Shopping del Sol
Casilla de Correo 13005
1749 Asuncion / Paraguay

Yes, grey does matter - within the skull.
For the 'Mercans: gray does matter.

Re: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key

[Martin]

Am 08.04.19 um 12:43 schrieb Markus Schönhaber:
> Martin, 8.4.2019 12:29 +0200:
> 
>> since a few days, my qq(´) and qq(´)¹ don't work with a single press. I have 
>> to press twice.
>> Who can tell me why?
>> And, ho do I get my old single press behavior back?
>> Sorry I don't get this keyboard magic in this life...
>>
>> 1) On a German keyboard, it is the key left of the backspace.
> 
> By choosing a keyboard layout with "nodeadkeys" / "ohne Akzenttasten"

That is what I do.
Well, in lightdm/xfce4-settings this was working with generic German PC 105 
keys without further options. Which I did not touch since ages.

> you'll probably get the old behaviour back where a single key press
> makes such accented characters appear.
> 

Re: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key

[Markus Schönhaber]

Martin, 8.4.2019 12:29 +0200:

> since a few days, my qq(´) and qq(´)¹ don't work with a single press. I have 
> to press twice.
> Who can tell me why?
> And, ho do I get my old single press behavior back?
> Sorry I don't get this keyboard magic in this life...
> 
> 1) On a German keyboard, it is the key left of the backspace.

By choosing a keyboard layout with "nodeadkeys" / "ohne Akzenttasten"
you'll probably get the old behaviour back where a single key press
makes such accented characters appear.

-- 
Regards
  mks

May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key

[Martin]

Hi list,

since a few days, my qq(´) and qq(´)¹ don't work with a single press. I have to 
press twice.
Who can tell me why?
And, ho do I get my old single press behavior back?
Sorry I don't get this keyboard magic in this life...

1) On a German keyboard, it is the key left of the backspace.


Thanks, Martin

Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Sun, Oct 28, 2007 at 09:08:06PM +, Joe wrote:
 Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
 anyway, I didn't mean to offend, and I apologise.

 No offence taken, no apology necessary. If you can't talk straight on 
 Usenet, where can you? There's a fairly broad line between robust 
 discussion and deliberate insult, which isn't often crossed here.


:)

the first rule of usenet is...

;-)

A


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Joe]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

anyway, I didn't mean to offend, and I apologise.



No offence taken, no apology necessary. If you can't talk straight on 
Usenet, where can you? There's a fairly broad line between robust 
discussion and deliberate insult, which isn't often crossed here.


Joe


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:16:03PM +0100, Joe wrote:
 Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

 I was just pointing out that the OP above was complaining
 about it not working in sid... which is pretty standard expectation
 for Debian behavior.


 Yes, I know what to expect with Sid, which I've been running since before 
 Sarge was released, and this isn't it. Sid is for incorporating new 
 software variants into a future Stable, and sorting out any integration 
 issues, not for troubleshooting broken software. It's supposed to work 
 *before* it arrives in Sid.

well, that's the theory, but how often the reality? honestly quite a
lot as I run sid on all my non-publicly facing machines and have no
realy issue ever, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.


 I had one (1) Ethernet adaptor, which used to be called eth0. I can 
 understand potential confusion if there was more than one, and I've seen 
 that happen.

I really agree with you. There is no reason it should happen in this
case other than someone must have made a mistake. Or (not knowing the
specifics of udev changes) someone somewhere made a decision that
there weren't going to be any eth0's anymore. My sid laptop renames
its lan from eth0 to eth1 during the initrd phase. Then after
pivot-root, when init is in charge, the wireless interface gets found
and initially designated eth0, but gets renamed to eth2. I don't know
why this is, but there it is.



 The thread is about the wisdom of setting up networking in The Debian Way. 
 The point I was making is that The Debian Way today clearly isn't The 
 Debian Way of a month ago. It used to involve editing a text file, and at 
 worst tweaking the modules a bit, now it involves learning the operation of 
 an entirely automatic system that the user isn't even supposed to see, and 
 how to override it when it screws up. As far as I'm concerned, that's The 
 Windows Way, and it doesn't belong in Linux.

again we are in agreement. In the effort to make some sort of
automated networking configuration, which I don't disagree with in
concept, things have gone horribly wrong with network manager,
IMO. With NM and friends around, it is impossi ble to maintain
networking the old way and if it doesn't work then NM way, then you're
screwed. its a little frustrating.

anyway, I didn't mean to offend, and I apologise.

A


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Joe]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 10:35:10PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:

On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 01:23:38PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 08:48:39PM +0100, Joe wrote:

Douglas A. Tutty wrote:

Now, if you actually had a piece of hardware that _was_ fully supported
by the linux kernel without this mess, then you would get a functioning
eth0 which would then work just fine with the standard Debian networking
tools.  In short, your problem isn't with the networking tools, its with a
non-functional driver.
Looks like my last post didn't make it here. I had a solid, dependable 
working MB NIC until a couple of weeks ago, when Sid suddenly started 
renaming it to eth1 during boot (without explanation) and then saying eth0 
didn't exist. I didn't notice (not exactly the kind of thing you expect), 
disabled it and installed a PCI card, then when that didn't work, had to 
alter my interfaces file to eth1. I think the MB NIC is probably not 
faulty, but I'm short of time at the moment and it isn't urgent.


Not exactly standard Debian behaviour, or at least it wasn't once.

well. I'm silly for jumping into this, but the important word above is
'Sid'.

I suspect that's 'nuff said. :)

There's probably some way to get udev to be consistant with device
names.  If you know the module that gets installed, I wonder if putting
it in /etc/modules would cause it to name consistantly.  


Also, I vaguely remember that pre-udev, pre-devfs, there was a way to
identify the unit-number based on MAC address when the module was
loaded.  I think it was aliases in /etc/modules.conf.  That file doesn't
exist on my box.  So I guess you'll have to learn about udev to get
persistant naming.


I think there is pretty good persistent netowrk interface naming at
this point. I was just pointing out that the OP above was complaining
about it not working in sid... which is pretty standard expectation
for Debian behavior. 


Regardless, though, its pretty straightforward to get persistent
naming provided you can get some bit of unique info about the device
out of the kernel. Once that's done, you *can* make a symlink with a
good name that will always point to the desired device, regardless of
what that device might be named...

not at my usual machine to provide a link to the udev rules tutorial,
but its pretty easy to find.



Yes, I know what to expect with Sid, which I've been running since 
before Sarge was released, and this isn't it. Sid is for incorporating 
new software variants into a future Stable, and sorting out any 
integration issues, not for troubleshooting broken software. It's 
supposed to work *before* it arrives in Sid.


I had one (1) Ethernet adaptor, which used to be called eth0. I can 
understand potential confusion if there was more than one, and I've seen 
that happen. What conceivable reason is there for designating it eth1, 
the second Ethernet interface, when the machine contains only one? 
Workarounds there might be, but why do I need them?


The thread is about the wisdom of setting up networking in The Debian 
Way. The point I was making is that The Debian Way today clearly isn't 
The Debian Way of a month ago. It used to involve editing a text file, 
and at worst tweaking the modules a bit, now it involves learning the 
operation of an entirely automatic system that the user isn't even 
supposed to see, and how to override it when it screws up. As far as I'm 
concerned, that's The Windows Way, and it doesn't belong in Linux.



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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:16:03PM +0100, Joe wrote:
 
 Yes, I know what to expect with Sid, which I've been running since 
 before Sarge was released, and this isn't it. Sid is for incorporating 
 new software variants into a future Stable, and sorting out any 
 integration issues, not for troubleshooting broken software. It's 
 supposed to work *before* it arrives in Sid.
 
 I had one (1) Ethernet adaptor, which used to be called eth0. I can 
 understand potential confusion if there was more than one, and I've seen 
 that happen. What conceivable reason is there for designating it eth1, 
 the second Ethernet interface, when the machine contains only one? 
 Workarounds there might be, but why do I need them?
 
 The thread is about the wisdom of setting up networking in The Debian 
 Way. The point I was making is that The Debian Way today clearly isn't 
 The Debian Way of a month ago. It used to involve editing a text file, 
 and at worst tweaking the modules a bit, now it involves learning the 
 operation of an entirely automatic system that the user isn't even 
 supposed to see, and how to override it when it screws up. As far as I'm 
 concerned, that's The Windows Way, and it doesn't belong in Linux.

Here Hear!.  However, your anger is misdirected.  Udev is part of the
2.6 kernel not part of Debian.  If a new version of udev comes down the
pike to go with a new version of the Kernel, don't blame Debian.  Sure,
I suppose they could stall brining a new kernel into Sid until udev was
fixed but my jaundiced view is that udev will never be fixed it will
just continue to make Linux look more and more like windows; Lindows.

I wish it was more like OpenBSD where there are no eth*, but numbered
instances of drivers by name.  I _think_ the order is based on hardware
(e.g. what PCI slot its in) and so doesn't flop around like udev does.

Doug.


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[César]

apt-get install lshw

this package show list all hardware
here i show an example:

#: lshw | less

next you find in less /network

*network
description: Ethernet interface
product: 88E8053 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller
vendor: Marvell Technology Group Ltd.
physical id: 0
bus info: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:03:00.0
logical name: eth1
version: 20
serial: 00:18:f3:64:6f:43
size: 100MB/s
capacity: 1GB/s
width: 64 bits
clock: 33MHz

this is the information logical name: eth1


___
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http://cronopios.net/Traducciones/trolls.es.html

Mi blog:
http://enjoyingfreesoftware.wordpress.com/

:-{þ

Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[francisco]

El vie, 26-10-2007 a las 17:46 -0400, Douglas A. Tutty escribió:
 On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:16:03PM +0100, Joe wrote:
  
  Yes, I know what to expect with Sid, which I've been running since 
  before Sarge was released, and this isn't it. Sid is for incorporating 
  new software variants into a future Stable, and sorting out any 
  integration issues, not for troubleshooting broken software. It's 
  supposed to work *before* it arrives in Sid.
  
  I had one (1) Ethernet adaptor, which used to be called eth0. I can 
  understand potential confusion if there was more than one, and I've seen 
  that happen. What conceivable reason is there for designating it eth1, 
  the second Ethernet interface, when the machine contains only one? 
  Workarounds there might be, but why do I need them?
  
  The thread is about the wisdom of setting up networking in The Debian 
  Way. The point I was making is that The Debian Way today clearly isn't 
  The Debian Way of a month ago. It used to involve editing a text file, 
  and at worst tweaking the modules a bit, now it involves learning the 
  operation of an entirely automatic system that the user isn't even 
  supposed to see, and how to override it when it screws up. As far as I'm 
  concerned, that's The Windows Way, and it doesn't belong in Linux.
 
 Here Hear!.  However, your anger is misdirected.  Udev is part of the
 2.6 kernel not part of Debian.  If a new version of udev comes down the
 pike to go with a new version of the Kernel, don't blame Debian.  Sure,
 I suppose they could stall brining a new kernel into Sid until udev was
 fixed but my jaundiced view is that udev will never be fixed it will
 just continue to make Linux look more and more like windows; Lindows.

Well, after the addition of SEWindows in Debian, udev and others; maybe
Debian needs its own kernel, as BSD! Because if not, it is going to be
Windebian.

 
 I wish it was more like OpenBSD where there are no eth*, but numbered
 instances of drivers by name.  I _think_ the order is based on hardware
 (e.g. what PCI slot its in) and so doesn't flop around like udev does.
 
 Doug.
 
 


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Wed, Oct 24, 2007 at 09:45:54PM -0700, francisco wrote:
 El mi??, 24-10-2007 a las 22:27 -0400, Douglas A. Tutty escribi??:
  On Wed, Oct 24, 2007 at 07:00:39PM -0700, francisco wrote:
   El mi??, 24-10-2007 a las 10:11 -0400, Douglas A. Tutty escribi??:
On Wed, Oct 24, 2007 at 10:02:31AM +0200, Matthias Feichtinger wrote:
 I had the same problem.
 The mistake was made while installing.
 It is not possible to change things, e.g. having to configure more
 than one ethernetcard.

Are you seriously telling people that you can't add a NIC to Debian
without re-installing?  Get a life.
 
   Could you, forget the theoretical explanation and show it by a simple
   example? i have the same problem, and it can not be solve by ifconfig,
   iwconfig, route and others. Broadcom card 4311, Compaq Presario v3019US.
   
  
  It seems that the linux driver for your card requires that you steal the
  firmware from another driver and stick it into the linux driver.  Good
  luck with that.
  
  Now, if you actually had a piece of hardware that _was_ fully supported
  by the linux kernel without this mess, then you would get a functioning
  eth0 which would then work just fine with the standard Debian networking
  tools.  
  
  In short, your problem isn't with the networking tools, its with a
  non-functional driver.
 
 Ah, ok i understand that you can not do it!. You can only in theory!
 

You challenged me on setting up two NICs in Linux, not about getting a
half-assed driver to work.  Two different problems.

Doug.


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0? (followup)

[Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum]

I wanted to thank everyone who responded to my
questoin. Fortunately or unfortunately i was forced to
reboot the machine for other reasons, and upon
rebooting eth0 was there. Repeated suspends had no
effect, i.e. eth0 was still there (meaning that
suspending isnt what caused it to vanish).

Since i cant repeat the problem i dont know what to do
to try and solve it. But i am keeping the messages
around so that if it does happen again i will be
ready.

Thank you!

Jen

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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0? (followup)

[p]

On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 06:57:40AM -0700, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:
 I wanted to thank everyone who responded to my
 questoin. Fortunately or unfortunately i was forced to
 reboot the machine for other reasons, and upon
 rebooting eth0 was there. Repeated suspends had no
 effect, i.e. eth0 was still there (meaning that
 suspending isnt what caused it to vanish).
 
 Since i cant repeat the problem i dont know what to do
 to try and solve it. But i am keeping the messages
 around so that if it does happen again i will be
 ready.
 
 Thank you!
 
 Jen


//

glad to hear you got eth0 upon reboot.   

for what it's worth, on one of my etch boxen, i 
don't have sound _sometimes_ unless i reboot.  
weird.

b.

//


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Joe]

Douglas A. Tutty wrote:

On Wed, Oct 24, 2007 at 07:00:39PM -0700, francisco wrote:

El mi??, 24-10-2007 a las 10:11 -0400, Douglas A. Tutty escribi??:

On Wed, Oct 24, 2007 at 10:02:31AM +0200, Matthias Feichtinger wrote:

I had the same problem.
The mistake was made while installing.
It is not possible to change things, e.g. having to configure more
than one ethernetcard.
I made a script of my own need and everythings works as I wanted it
to work. So, first man ifconfig, then man route and if needed, you might
start your script with init.d.
At next installing don't mention any NIC at all. The debian way to do
is a kind of mystery. When there's enough time I will rebuild it.

Are you seriously telling people that you can't add a NIC to Debian
without re-installing?  Get a life.

Now, if you're using some pointy-clicky lindows thingy, perhaps.  Get
rid of it.  


udev should find all your hardware.  If you find it doesn't, do the
old-fashioned method.  Find the right module (read the kernel-docs, read
the chips on your NIC, match them up), and insmod it.  If you need
parameters its easier (if you want a bit of a GUI) to install modconf
which will ask for the parameters and put them in the right place.

Your module name would go under /etc/modules and be loaded at each boot.

Once you have an eth* you can then go ahead and put it in
/etc/network/interfaces.

Done.

The Debian way isn't a mistery.  Read the debian-manual, man pages, and
if necessary, ask here.  


Could you, forget the theoretical explanation and show it by a simple
example? i have the same problem, and it can not be solve by ifconfig,
iwconfig, route and others. Broadcom card 4311, Compaq Presario v3019US.



1.
Looking in
/usr/share/doc/linux-doc-2.6.18/Documentation/networking/ \
bcm43xx.txt.gz it says its for Broadcom BCM43xx chips.

It mentions needing a firmware file.  I'm assuming this is some
	wireless stuff that I know diddly about.  

	To me, either a driver works or it doesn't.  


2.
aptitude search ~dbroadcom
shows up bcm43xx-fwcutter

3.  Both places refer the reader to http://bcm43xx.berlios.de/

4.  It says that the page won't be updated anymore, to go to
http://linuxwireless.org

Which doesn't seem to help any.


Since I don't have a wireless card, there's no reason for me to install
bcm43xx-fwcutter.

It seems that the linux driver for your card requires that you steal the
firmware from another driver and stick it into the linux driver.  Good
luck with that.

Now, if you actually had a piece of hardware that _was_ fully supported
by the linux kernel without this mess, then you would get a functioning
eth0 which would then work just fine with the standard Debian networking
tools.  


In short, your problem isn't with the networking tools, its with a
non-functional driver.

Looks like my last post didn't make it here. I had a solid, dependable 
working MB NIC until a couple of weeks ago, when Sid suddenly started 
renaming it to eth1 during boot (without explanation) and then saying 
eth0 didn't exist. I didn't notice (not exactly the kind of thing you 
expect), disabled it and installed a PCI card, then when that didn't 
work, had to alter my interfaces file to eth1. I think the MB NIC is 
probably not faulty, but I'm short of time at the moment and it isn't 
urgent.


Not exactly standard Debian behaviour, or at least it wasn't once.


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 08:48:39PM +0100, Joe wrote:
 Douglas A. Tutty wrote:

 Now, if you actually had a piece of hardware that _was_ fully supported
 by the linux kernel without this mess, then you would get a functioning
 eth0 which would then work just fine with the standard Debian networking
 tools.  In short, your problem isn't with the networking tools, its with a
 non-functional driver.

 Looks like my last post didn't make it here. I had a solid, dependable 
 working MB NIC until a couple of weeks ago, when Sid suddenly started 
 renaming it to eth1 during boot (without explanation) and then saying eth0 
 didn't exist. I didn't notice (not exactly the kind of thing you expect), 
 disabled it and installed a PCI card, then when that didn't work, had to 
 alter my interfaces file to eth1. I think the MB NIC is probably not 
 faulty, but I'm short of time at the moment and it isn't urgent.

 Not exactly standard Debian behaviour, or at least it wasn't once.

well. I'm silly for jumping into this, but the important word above is
'Sid'.

I suspect that's 'nuff said. :)

A


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 01:23:38PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
 On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 08:48:39PM +0100, Joe wrote:
  Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
 
  Now, if you actually had a piece of hardware that _was_ fully supported
  by the linux kernel without this mess, then you would get a functioning
  eth0 which would then work just fine with the standard Debian networking
  tools.  In short, your problem isn't with the networking tools, its with a
  non-functional driver.
 
  Looks like my last post didn't make it here. I had a solid, dependable 
  working MB NIC until a couple of weeks ago, when Sid suddenly started 
  renaming it to eth1 during boot (without explanation) and then saying eth0 
  didn't exist. I didn't notice (not exactly the kind of thing you expect), 
  disabled it and installed a PCI card, then when that didn't work, had to 
  alter my interfaces file to eth1. I think the MB NIC is probably not 
  faulty, but I'm short of time at the moment and it isn't urgent.
 
  Not exactly standard Debian behaviour, or at least it wasn't once.
 
 well. I'm silly for jumping into this, but the important word above is
 'Sid'.
 
 I suspect that's 'nuff said. :)

There's probably some way to get udev to be consistant with device
names.  If you know the module that gets installed, I wonder if putting
it in /etc/modules would cause it to name consistantly.  

Also, I vaguely remember that pre-udev, pre-devfs, there was a way to
identify the unit-number based on MAC address when the module was
loaded.  I think it was aliases in /etc/modules.conf.  That file doesn't
exist on my box.  So I guess you'll have to learn about udev to get
persistant naming.

Doug.


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 10:35:10PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
 On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 01:23:38PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
  On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 08:48:39PM +0100, Joe wrote:
   Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
  
   Now, if you actually had a piece of hardware that _was_ fully supported
   by the linux kernel without this mess, then you would get a functioning
   eth0 which would then work just fine with the standard Debian networking
   tools.  In short, your problem isn't with the networking tools, its with 
   a
   non-functional driver.
  
   Looks like my last post didn't make it here. I had a solid, dependable 
   working MB NIC until a couple of weeks ago, when Sid suddenly started 
   renaming it to eth1 during boot (without explanation) and then saying 
   eth0 
   didn't exist. I didn't notice (not exactly the kind of thing you expect), 
   disabled it and installed a PCI card, then when that didn't work, had to 
   alter my interfaces file to eth1. I think the MB NIC is probably not 
   faulty, but I'm short of time at the moment and it isn't urgent.
  
   Not exactly standard Debian behaviour, or at least it wasn't once.
  
  well. I'm silly for jumping into this, but the important word above is
  'Sid'.
  
  I suspect that's 'nuff said. :)
 
 There's probably some way to get udev to be consistant with device
 names.  If you know the module that gets installed, I wonder if putting
 it in /etc/modules would cause it to name consistantly.  
 
 Also, I vaguely remember that pre-udev, pre-devfs, there was a way to
 identify the unit-number based on MAC address when the module was
 loaded.  I think it was aliases in /etc/modules.conf.  That file doesn't
 exist on my box.  So I guess you'll have to learn about udev to get
 persistant naming.

I think there is pretty good persistent netowrk interface naming at
this point. I was just pointing out that the OP above was complaining
about it not working in sid... which is pretty standard expectation
for Debian behavior. 

Regardless, though, its pretty straightforward to get persistent
naming provided you can get some bit of unique info about the device
out of the kernel. Once that's done, you *can* make a symlink with a
good name that will always point to the desired device, regardless of
what that device might be named...

not at my usual machine to provide a link to the udev rules tutorial,
but its pretty easy to find.

A
 


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Description: Digital signature

Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Matthias Feichtinger]

I had the same problem.
The mistake was made while installing.
It is not possible to change things, e.g. having to configure more
than one ethernetcard.
I made a script of my own need and everythings works as I wanted it
to work. So, first man ifconfig, then man route and if needed, you might
start your script with init.d.
At next installing don't mention any NIC at all. The debian way to do
is a kind of mystery. When there's enough time I will rebuild it.

--
Für die p.t.Leser: Die nächste Zeile enthält alle Informationen. LG 
Matthias:-)
.--. -.-- .-. --.. .-. .- ..-. ..- -.  -.-. --. .--- ...- .-. .- ...- .- .-
 .-. . .-. ..-. --. -. --.- --.  .- --.- .-.. -.- .--. .. --- .-. ...- ..
 ...- .-. .- .- -. --.- -... --. -. --.

Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[francisco]

El mié, 24-10-2007 a las 10:11 -0400, Douglas A. Tutty escribió:
 On Wed, Oct 24, 2007 at 10:02:31AM +0200, Matthias Feichtinger wrote:
  I had the same problem.
  The mistake was made while installing.
  It is not possible to change things, e.g. having to configure more
  than one ethernetcard.
  I made a script of my own need and everythings works as I wanted it
  to work. So, first man ifconfig, then man route and if needed, you might
  start your script with init.d.
  At next installing don't mention any NIC at all. The debian way to do
  is a kind of mystery. When there's enough time I will rebuild it.
 
 Are you seriously telling people that you can't add a NIC to Debian
 without re-installing?  Get a life.
 
 Now, if you're using some pointy-clicky lindows thingy, perhaps.  Get
 rid of it.  
 
 udev should find all your hardware.  If you find it doesn't, do the
 old-fashioned method.  Find the right module (read the kernel-docs, read
 the chips on your NIC, match them up), and insmod it.  If you need
 parameters its easier (if you want a bit of a GUI) to install modconf
 which will ask for the parameters and put them in the right place.
 
 Your module name would go under /etc/modules and be loaded at each boot.
 
 Once you have an eth* you can then go ahead and put it in
 /etc/network/interfaces.
 
 Done.
 
 The Debian way isn't a mistery.  Read the debian-manual, man pages, and
 if necessary, ask here.  
 
 Doug.
 
 

Could you, forget the theoretical explanation and show it by a simple
example? i have the same problem, and it can not be solve by ifconfig,
iwconfig, route and others. Broadcom card 4311, Compaq Presario v3019US.


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Wed, Oct 24, 2007 at 07:00:39PM -0700, francisco wrote:
 El mi??, 24-10-2007 a las 10:11 -0400, Douglas A. Tutty escribi??:
  On Wed, Oct 24, 2007 at 10:02:31AM +0200, Matthias Feichtinger wrote:
   I had the same problem.
   The mistake was made while installing.
   It is not possible to change things, e.g. having to configure more
   than one ethernetcard.
   I made a script of my own need and everythings works as I wanted it
   to work. So, first man ifconfig, then man route and if needed, you might
   start your script with init.d.
   At next installing don't mention any NIC at all. The debian way to do
   is a kind of mystery. When there's enough time I will rebuild it.
  
  Are you seriously telling people that you can't add a NIC to Debian
  without re-installing?  Get a life.
  
  Now, if you're using some pointy-clicky lindows thingy, perhaps.  Get
  rid of it.  
  
  udev should find all your hardware.  If you find it doesn't, do the
  old-fashioned method.  Find the right module (read the kernel-docs, read
  the chips on your NIC, match them up), and insmod it.  If you need
  parameters its easier (if you want a bit of a GUI) to install modconf
  which will ask for the parameters and put them in the right place.
  
  Your module name would go under /etc/modules and be loaded at each boot.
  
  Once you have an eth* you can then go ahead and put it in
  /etc/network/interfaces.
  
  Done.
  
  The Debian way isn't a mistery.  Read the debian-manual, man pages, and
  if necessary, ask here.  
  
 
 Could you, forget the theoretical explanation and show it by a simple
 example? i have the same problem, and it can not be solve by ifconfig,
 iwconfig, route and others. Broadcom card 4311, Compaq Presario v3019US.
 

1.
Looking in
/usr/share/doc/linux-doc-2.6.18/Documentation/networking/ \
bcm43xx.txt.gz it says its for Broadcom BCM43xx chips.

It mentions needing a firmware file.  I'm assuming this is some
wireless stuff that I know diddly about.  

To me, either a driver works or it doesn't.  

2.
aptitude search ~dbroadcom
shows up bcm43xx-fwcutter

3.  Both places refer the reader to http://bcm43xx.berlios.de/

4.  It says that the page won't be updated anymore, to go to
http://linuxwireless.org

Which doesn't seem to help any.


Since I don't have a wireless card, there's no reason for me to install
bcm43xx-fwcutter.

It seems that the linux driver for your card requires that you steal the
firmware from another driver and stick it into the linux driver.  Good
luck with that.

Now, if you actually had a piece of hardware that _was_ fully supported
by the linux kernel without this mess, then you would get a functioning
eth0 which would then work just fine with the standard Debian networking
tools.  

In short, your problem isn't with the networking tools, its with a
non-functional driver.

Doug.


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Celejar]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:27:02 -0400
Douglas A. Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 1.
   Looking in
   /usr/share/doc/linux-doc-2.6.18/Documentation/networking/ \
   bcm43xx.txt.gz it says its for Broadcom BCM43xx chips.
 
   It mentions needing a firmware file.  I'm assuming this is some
   wireless stuff that I know diddly about.  

Some hardware requires software to be loaded by the driver onto the
chip; that software is sometimes called (perhaps technically
inaccurately, as John Hasler has maintained) firmware.  This has
nothing to do with wireless per se, but it is often the case with
wireless chipsets.

 
   To me, either a driver works or it doesn't.  
 
 2.
   aptitude search ~dbroadcom
   shows up bcm43xx-fwcutter
 
 3.Both places refer the reader to http://bcm43xx.berlios.de/
 
 4.It says that the page won't be updated anymore, to go to
   http://linuxwireless.org
 
   Which doesn't seem to help any.
 
 
 Since I don't have a wireless card, there's no reason for me to install
 bcm43xx-fwcutter.
 
 It seems that the linux driver for your card requires that you steal the
 firmware from another driver and stick it into the linux driver.  Good
 luck with that.

That's exactly it, all though I don't think it is really stealing.
It is also often fairly trivial; it may just work.  Debconf will
offer to do it automatically, and it worked correctly for me.

 Now, if you actually had a piece of hardware that _was_ fully supported
 by the linux kernel without this mess, then you would get a functioning
 eth0 which would then work just fine with the standard Debian networking
 tools.  
 
 In short, your problem isn't with the networking tools, its with a
 non-functional driver.

Again, it's not the driver which is non-functional, but the hardware
which needs its own firmware, independent of the driver, although the
driver is responsible for loading it, IIUC.

 Doug.

Celejar
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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[francisco]

El mié, 24-10-2007 a las 22:27 -0400, Douglas A. Tutty escribió:
 On Wed, Oct 24, 2007 at 07:00:39PM -0700, francisco wrote:
  El mi??, 24-10-2007 a las 10:11 -0400, Douglas A. Tutty escribi??:
   On Wed, Oct 24, 2007 at 10:02:31AM +0200, Matthias Feichtinger wrote:
I had the same problem.
The mistake was made while installing.
It is not possible to change things, e.g. having to configure more
than one ethernetcard.
I made a script of my own need and everythings works as I wanted it
to work. So, first man ifconfig, then man route and if needed, you might
start your script with init.d.
At next installing don't mention any NIC at all. The debian way to do
is a kind of mystery. When there's enough time I will rebuild it.
   
   Are you seriously telling people that you can't add a NIC to Debian
   without re-installing?  Get a life.
   
   Now, if you're using some pointy-clicky lindows thingy, perhaps.  Get
   rid of it.  
   
   udev should find all your hardware.  If you find it doesn't, do the
   old-fashioned method.  Find the right module (read the kernel-docs, read
   the chips on your NIC, match them up), and insmod it.  If you need
   parameters its easier (if you want a bit of a GUI) to install modconf
   which will ask for the parameters and put them in the right place.
   
   Your module name would go under /etc/modules and be loaded at each boot.
   
   Once you have an eth* you can then go ahead and put it in
   /etc/network/interfaces.
   
   Done.
   
   The Debian way isn't a mistery.  Read the debian-manual, man pages, and
   if necessary, ask here.  
   
  
  Could you, forget the theoretical explanation and show it by a simple
  example? i have the same problem, and it can not be solve by ifconfig,
  iwconfig, route and others. Broadcom card 4311, Compaq Presario v3019US.
  
 
 1.
   Looking in
   /usr/share/doc/linux-doc-2.6.18/Documentation/networking/ \
   bcm43xx.txt.gz it says its for Broadcom BCM43xx chips.
 
   It mentions needing a firmware file.  I'm assuming this is some
   wireless stuff that I know diddly about.  
 
   To me, either a driver works or it doesn't.  
 
 2.
   aptitude search ~dbroadcom
   shows up bcm43xx-fwcutter
 
 3.Both places refer the reader to http://bcm43xx.berlios.de/
 
 4.It says that the page won't be updated anymore, to go to
   http://linuxwireless.org
 
   Which doesn't seem to help any.
 
 
 Since I don't have a wireless card, there's no reason for me to install
 bcm43xx-fwcutter.
 
 It seems that the linux driver for your card requires that you steal the
 firmware from another driver and stick it into the linux driver.  Good
 luck with that.
 
 Now, if you actually had a piece of hardware that _was_ fully supported
 by the linux kernel without this mess, then you would get a functioning
 eth0 which would then work just fine with the standard Debian networking
 tools.  
 
 In short, your problem isn't with the networking tools, its with a
 non-functional driver.
 
 Doug.
 
 

Ah, ok i understand that you can not do it!. You can only in theory!


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Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum]

I know this must be an incredibly dumb question, but i cant find my eth0 
interface.

I normally use a WiFi connection on my laptop, running Etch with Gnome. But i 
just brought the computer into an office, plugged in an Ethernet cable, and 
waited for NetworkManager to pick it up. And waited. And waited. Eventually i 
took a look at the Desktop - Administration - Networking tool, and there was 
not eth0 listed there, and then i ran ifconfig and eth0 isnt there either.

My /etc/network/interfaces does have allow-hotplug eth0 in it. And i am 
getting flashing lights from the plugged-in Ethernet port, so it's not a dead 
connection. Why is this interface missing for me, and how do i get it back?

Thanks,

Jen

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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Wayne Topa]

Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
 I know this must be an incredibly dumb question, but i cant find my
 eth0 interface.
 
 I normally use a WiFi connection on my laptop, running Etch with
 Gnome. But i just brought the computer into an office, plugged in an
 Ethernet cable, and waited for NetworkManager to pick it up. And
 waited. And waited. Eventually i took a look at the Desktop -
 Administration - Networking tool, and there was not eth0 listed
 there, and then i ran ifconfig and eth0 isnt there either.
 
 My /etc/network/interfaces does have allow-hotplug eth0 in it. And
 i am getting flashing lights from the plugged-in Ethernet port, so
 it's not a dead connection. Why is this interface missing for me,
 and how do i get it back?
 

The best way to fix this is to install the debian-reference package.

Chapter 10, Network Configuration, will answer all of your questions.

W

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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum]

Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
 I know this must be an incredibly dumb question, but i cant find my
 eth0 interface.
 
 I normally use a WiFi connection on my laptop, running Etch with
 Gnome. But i just brought the computer into an office, plugged in an
 Ethernet cable, and waited for NetworkManager to pick it up. And
 waited. And waited. Eventually i took a look at the Desktop -
 Administration - Networking tool, and there was not eth0 listed
 there, and then i ran ifconfig and eth0 isnt there either.
 
 My /etc/network/interfaces does have allow-hotplug eth0 in it. And
 i am getting flashing lights from the plugged-in Ethernet port, so
 it's not a dead connection. Why is this interface missing for me,
 and how do i get it back?
 

The best way to fix this is to install the debian-reference package.

Chapter 10, Network Configuration, will answer all of your questions.

I did read Chapter 10 online, more than once, and im afraid that i didnt see an
answer to my question there. Everything assumed that the interface was 
available,
an everything i did try to do to get it up (i.e. using ifup or ifconfig) just 
gave
me Ignoring unknown interface or No such device errors. Also section 
10.6.5. 
mentions network-manager as something that doesn't exist in Debian yet, 
although it clearly does,
which is a further worry because thats what im trying to use.

If its really there and i just cant see it, i apologize, but i did say it was a 
silly question.

Jen


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Oct 23, 2007 at 11:22:56AM -0700, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:
 
 Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
  I know this must be an incredibly dumb question, but i cant find my
  eth0 interface.
  

personally, I think network-manager is more trouble than its worth,
but that's jsut me. please provide the exact output of the following:

dmesg | grep -i ^eth

cat /etc/network/interfaces

/sbin/ifconfig

thanks

A


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Wayne Topa]

Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
 
 Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
  I know this must be an incredibly dumb question, but i cant find my
  eth0 interface.
  
  I normally use a WiFi connection on my laptop, running Etch with
  Gnome. But i just brought the computer into an office, plugged in an
  Ethernet cable, and waited for NetworkManager to pick it up. And
  waited. And waited. Eventually i took a look at the Desktop -
  Administration - Networking tool, and there was not eth0 listed
  there, and then i ran ifconfig and eth0 isnt there either.
  
  My /etc/network/interfaces does have allow-hotplug eth0 in it. And
  i am getting flashing lights from the plugged-in Ethernet port, so
  it's not a dead connection. Why is this interface missing for me,
  and how do i get it back?
  
 
 The best way to fix this is to install the debian-reference package.
 
 Chapter 10, Network Configuration, will answer all of your questions.
 
 I did read Chapter 10 online, more than once, and im afraid that i didnt see 
 an
 answer to my question there. Everything assumed that the interface was 
 available,
 an everything i did try to do to get it up (i.e. using ifup or ifconfig) just 
 gave
 me Ignoring unknown interface or No such device errors. Also section 
 10.6.5. 
 mentions network-manager as something that doesn't exist in Debian yet, 
 although it clearly does,
 which is a further worry because thats what im trying to use.
 
 If its really there and i just cant see it, i apologize, but i did say it was 
 a silly question.

It's not a silly question at all.  I thought we could save a lot of
questions if you looked at that chapter first.

Please show us what the /etc/network/interfaces file looks like, other
then just the allow-hotplug eth0 entry.

The contents of the /etc/udev/rules.d/z25_persistent-net.rules mnight
also be helpful.

W

-- 
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another for which it wasn't.
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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Kelly Clowers]

On 10/23/07, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I know this must be an incredibly dumb question, but i cant find my eth0
 interface.

 I normally use a WiFi connection on my laptop, running Etch with Gnome.
 But i just brought the computer into an office, plugged in an Ethernet cable,
 and waited for NetworkManager to pick it up. And waited. And waited.
 Eventually i took a look at the Desktop - Administration - Networking tool,
 and there was not eth0 listed there, and then i ran ifconfig and eth0 isnt 
 there
 either.

 My /etc/network/interfaces does have allow-hotplug eth0 in it. And i am 
 getting
 flashing lights from the plugged-in Ethernet port, so it's not a dead 
 connection.
 Why is this interface missing for me, and how do i get it back?

It is most likely due to udev. Udev does weird things to network card names.
Try using eth1 or possibly eth2. If those do not work, it may be another issue.


Cheers,
Kelly


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum]

Andrew Sackville wrote:
personally, I think network-manager is more trouble
than its worth,
but that's jsut me. 

Im starting to feel that your right--when it works its
nice but when it doesnt i never know what to do.

please provide the exact output of the following:

dmesg | grep -i ^eth

$ dmesg | grep -i ^eth
eth1: Coming out of suspend...
eth1: no IPv6 routers present

cat /etc/network/interfaces

$ cat /etc/network/interfaces
# This file describes the network interfaces available
on your system
# and how to activate them. For more information, see
interfaces(5).

# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# The primary network interface
allow-hotplug eth0

[i dont know why eth1 doesnt show here, its my current
WiFi interface]

/sbin/ifconfig

$ /sbin/ifconfig
eth1  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr
00:1B:77:8D:24:56
  inet addr:192.168.1.105  Bcast:192.168.1.255
 Mask:255.255.255.0
  inet6 addr: fe80::21b:77ff:fe8d:2456/64
Scope:Link
  UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500 
Metric:1
  RX packets:1897 errors:12304 dropped:169994
overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:1487 errors:0 dropped:0
overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
  RX bytes:491090712 (468.3 MiB)  TX
bytes:230098913 (219.4 MiB)
  Interrupt:66 Base address:0xc000
Memory:edf0-edf00fff

loLink encap:Local Loopback
  inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
  inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
  UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
  RX packets:775798 errors:0 dropped:0
overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:775798 errors:0 dropped:0
overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
  RX bytes:515644253 (491.7 MiB)  TX
bytes:515644253 (491.7 MiB)

[and then a few VMWare interfaces]

And in response to Wayne's question:

$ cat /etc/udev/rules.d/z25_persistent-net.rules
# This file was automatically generated by the
/lib/udev/write_net_rules
# program, probably run by the
persistent-net-generator.rules rules file.
#
# You can modify it, as long as you keep each rule on
a single line.
# MAC addresses must be written in lowercase.

# PCI device 0x8086:0x109a (e1000)
SUBSYSTEM==net, DRIVERS==?*,
ATTRS{address}==00:15:58:c8:b5:39, NAME=eth0

# PCI device 0x8086:0x4227 (ipw3945)
SUBSYSTEM==net, DRIVERS==?*,
ATTRS{address}==00:1b:77:8d:24:56, NAME=eth1

Thank you all!

Jen

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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[David A. Parker]

Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:

Andrew Sackville wrote:

personally, I think network-manager is more trouble

than its worth,
but that's jsut me. 


Im starting to feel that your right--when it works its
nice but when it doesnt i never know what to do.


please provide the exact output of the following:



dmesg | grep -i ^eth


$ dmesg | grep -i ^eth
eth1: Coming out of suspend...
eth1: no IPv6 routers present


cat /etc/network/interfaces


$ cat /etc/network/interfaces
# This file describes the network interfaces available
on your system
# and how to activate them. For more information, see
interfaces(5).

# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# The primary network interface
allow-hotplug eth0



Try adding these lines to your /etc/network/interfaces:

auto eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp

Then run:

ifup eth0
ifconfig eth0

See if you get a network address from DHCP.

- Dave

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(315) 792-3229
Registered Linux User #408177


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Oct 23, 2007 at 02:54:39PM -0700, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:
 
 $ dmesg | grep -i ^eth
 eth1: Coming out of suspend...
 eth1: no IPv6 routers present
 

Ok, your dmesg ring buffer has overwritten what was discovered at boot.

try:

# (unless you're in group admin, then its $)
# cat /var/log/dmesg | grep -i eth

Notice that I left out the ^, so that any lines mentioning ethernet
will show up, i.e. the name of the drivers (in case they're trying but
don't end up creating an eth*).


Doug.


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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Oct 23, 2007 at 02:54:39PM -0700, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:
 
 And in response to Wayne's question:
 
 $ cat /etc/udev/rules.d/z25_persistent-net.rules
 # This file was automatically generated by the
 /lib/udev/write_net_rules
 # program, probably run by the
 persistent-net-generator.rules rules file.
 #
 # You can modify it, as long as you keep each rule on
 a single line.
 # MAC addresses must be written in lowercase.
 
 # PCI device 0x8086:0x109a (e1000)
 SUBSYSTEM==net, DRIVERS==?*,
 ATTRS{address}==00:15:58:c8:b5:39, NAME=eth0
 
 # PCI device 0x8086:0x4227 (ipw3945)
 SUBSYSTEM==net, DRIVERS==?*,
 ATTRS{address}==00:1b:77:8d:24:56, NAME=eth1
 

you have rules for both interfaces, but why it only provides one is
unknown to me. I'm going to guess that maybe its gotten lost as a
result of suspend not working properly, perhaps. Check with lspci to
see whether the device even shows up on the pci bus. 

also try 

lsmod | grep e1000

udev shows it as using that driver. If the driver is not present then
try 

modprobe e1000

if it is present, try 

modprobe -r e1000  modprobe e1000

or you could try 

udevtrigger 

which will rerun udev's detection stuff. if you want you could use the
--verbose and --dry-run flags, check man udevtrigger.

I'm guessing the driver got removed during a suspend and didn't get
pulled back in. the modprobes or udevtrigger should bring it back. 

A


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Description: Digital signature

Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Wayne Topa]

Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
 Andrew Sackville wrote:
 personally, I think network-manager is more trouble
 than its worth,
 but that's jsut me. 
 
 Im starting to feel that your right--when it works its
 nice but when it doesnt i never know what to do.
 
 please provide the exact output of the following:
 
 dmesg | grep -i ^eth
 
 $ dmesg | grep -i ^eth
 eth1: Coming out of suspend...
 eth1: no IPv6 routers present
 
 cat /etc/network/interfaces
 
 $ cat /etc/network/interfaces
 # This file describes the network interfaces available
 on your system
 # and how to activate them. For more information, see
 interfaces(5).
 
 # The loopback network interface
 auto lo
 iface lo inet loopback
 
 # The primary network interface
 allow-hotplug eth0
 

You do not have entries for eth0 or eth1 in your
/etc/network/interfaces file.

See debian-reference Section 10.6.1.1.

 [i dont know why eth1 doesnt show here, its my current
 WiFi interface]
 
I wonder how eth1 is working at all without being in the interfaces
file.  I hsve never used an interface without having a stanza for it
in /etc/network/interfaces.  I suppose you could do it with route but
that would get old really fast.


--snip--

 And in response to Wayne's question:
 
 $ cat /etc/udev/rules.d/z25_persistent-net.rules
 # This file was automatically generated by the
 /lib/udev/write_net_rules
 # program, probably run by the
 persistent-net-generator.rules rules file.
 #
 # You can modify it, as long as you keep each rule on
 a single line.
 # MAC addresses must be written in lowercase.
 
 # PCI device 0x8086:0x109a (e1000)
 SUBSYSTEM==net, DRIVERS==?*,
 ATTRS{address}==00:15:58:c8:b5:39, NAME=eth0
 
 # PCI device 0x8086:0x4227 (ipw3945)
 SUBSYSTEM==net, DRIVERS==?*,
 ATTRS{address}==00:1b:77:8d:24:56, NAME=eth1
 

udev has found both of your interfaces so if you add them to the
interfaces file you should be good to go.

Wayne

-- 
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on future hardware.  Nobody trusts them to write specs for anything homo
sapiens will ever be able to fit on a single planet.
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Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?

[Tim DeWall]

- Original Message - 
From: Andrew Sackville-West [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: Silly question: Where's eth0?



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Re: A silly question about tar

[Tyler Smith]

On 2007-03-17, Tyler Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 2007-03-17, Douglas Allan Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Within that directory I issued:

  $ls -1 | xargs -L 1 tar -xf

 and ended up with a test subdirectory containing all nine files.



  The argument to ls, ls -1 is not necessary. 


Did some reading on this, and it turns out that when standard output
of ls is anything but a terminal it automatically defaults to 
'ls -1'. So as soon as you put a pipe at the end of ls the -1 is 
assumed.

-- 
Regards,

Tyler Smit


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Re: A silly question about tar

[Douglas Allan Tutty]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 12:45:51PM +, Tyler Smith wrote:
 On 2007-03-17, Tyler Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On 2007-03-17, Douglas Allan Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Within that directory I issued:
 
 $ls -1 | xargs -L 1 tar -xf
 
  and ended up with a test subdirectory containing all nine files.
 
 
 
   The argument to ls, ls -1 is not necessary. 
 
 
 Did some reading on this, and it turns out that when standard output
 of ls is anything but a terminal it automatically defaults to 
 'ls -1'. So as soon as you put a pipe at the end of ls the -1 is 
 assumed.

I just didn't want to assume anything.  I wanted one line at a time, so
I specified it.  Otherwise, an undocumented change to ls could cause a
problem that isn't apparent.

Doug.


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Re: A silly question about tar [solved]

[Adam Porter]

So it looks like the ultimate solution is Greg Folkert's suggestion to
install the package unp, which handles multiple archives and
automatically chooses the right extractor.   Cameron Hutchison's shell
function is also handy, but unp probably makes that unnecessary if you can
install packages on the system you're using.

Thanks, list!


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Re: A silly question about tar

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2007-03-17 18:49:59 +0100, Joe Hart wrote:
 unp, orange.  Right.  Never heard of either of them.  I have now.

unp doesn't do proper character escaping, though. So, never do things
like unp *.tar.bz2 on files that come from an external source, as
I fear that this may execute arbitrary code on your machine.

I don't know about orange.

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Re: A silly question about tar [solved]

[Greg Folkert]

On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 03:36 -0500, Adam Porter wrote:
 So it looks like the ultimate solution is Greg Folkert's suggestion to
 install the package unp, which handles multiple archives and
 automatically chooses the right extractor.   Cameron Hutchison's shell
 function is also handy, but unp probably makes that unnecessary if you can
 install packages on the system you're using.
 
 Thanks, list!

Watch out you'll get addicted to unp. You will long for it on all
platforms. 
-- 
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Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's
Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at
the playfield. -- Thane Walkup


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Re: A silly question about tar

[Chanan Berler]

i think it's best to use the find command - something like that

find . -type f -name *.tar.bz2 -exec tar xjf {} \;

ps: 
try this first to check u get the filelist u wanted:
find . -type f -name *.tar.bz2


Adam Porter wrote:
 
 I've read the man page, googled this list and the rest of the Net, but I
 still can't figure out why this doesn't work:
 
 $ tar xjf *.tar.bz2
 tar: beryl-core-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-manager-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-plugins-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-plugins-unsupported-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-settings-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-settings-bindings-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-settings-simple-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: emerald-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: emerald-themes-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: heliodor-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
 
 Not only did it completely fail, but it skipped the first file in the
 directory, aquamarine-0.2.0.tar.bz2.  But if I run the same command on a
 single file instead of a wildcard, it works fine.
 
 Am I doing something wrong?  Why can't tar handle a wildcard list like
 that?
 
 
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A silly question about tar

[Adam Porter]

I've read the man page, googled this list and the rest of the Net, but I
still can't figure out why this doesn't work:

$ tar xjf *.tar.bz2
tar: beryl-core-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: beryl-manager-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: beryl-plugins-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: beryl-plugins-unsupported-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: beryl-settings-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: beryl-settings-bindings-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: beryl-settings-simple-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: emerald-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: emerald-themes-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: heliodor-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors

Not only did it completely fail, but it skipped the first file in the
directory, aquamarine-0.2.0.tar.bz2.  But if I run the same command on a
single file instead of a wildcard, it works fine.

Am I doing something wrong?  Why can't tar handle a wildcard list like that?


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Re: A silly question about tar

[Adam Porter]

Thanks for your replies, everyone.  It seems to me that there might be a
market for a simple script frontend to tar that would handle shell-expanded
wildcards; perhaps it could be included in Debian's package of tar.  Would
that be a good idea?  Does anything like that already exist?


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Re: A silly question about tar

[Cameron Hutchison]

Adam Porter wrote:

Thanks for your replies, everyone.  It seems to me that there might be a
market for a simple script frontend to tar that would handle shell-expanded
wildcards; perhaps it could be included in Debian's package of tar.  Would
that be a good idea?  Does anything like that already exist?

I have the following shell function defined in my .bashrc which I use to
extract the various archives I come across. It handles multiple archives
on the command line. Usage is simple:

$ x *.tar.gz

x () 
{ 
for archive in $@; do
case $archive in 
*.tar* | *.t?z)
case $archive in 
*.gz | *tgz | *.Z)
TARFLAGS=--use-compress-prog gzip
;;
*.bz | *.bz2 | *tbz)
TARFLAGS=--use-compress-prog bzip2
;;
*)
TARFLAGS=
;;
esac;
tar xf $archive ${TARFLAGS}
;;
*.zip | *.ZIP)
unzip -q $archive
;;
*.deb)
dpkg-deb -x $archive .
;;
*.rar)
unrar x $archive
;;
*.cpio)
cpio --extract --make-directories --file=$archive
;;
*.cpio.gz)
gzip -dc $archive | cpio --extract --make-directories
;;
*)
echo Unknown archive format 12
;;
esac;
done
}


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Re: A silly question about tar

[Douglas Allan Tutty]

On Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 05:00:21AM -0500, Adam Porter wrote:
 Thanks for your replies, everyone.  It seems to me that there might be a
 market for a simple script frontend to tar that would handle shell-expanded
 wildcards; perhaps it could be included in Debian's package of tar.  Would
 that be a good idea?  Does anything like that already exist?

You use find to spit out a list of the files you want (you _may_ be able
to just use ls -1 .tar), pipe that through xargs.  Something like this:

ls -1 .tar.gz | xargs tar [tar options -f ]

for each line of input it receives, xargs will tack it to the end of the
command line you give it (in the example, it will be tacked on after the
-f).

I have not tested this, YMMV.

Doug.


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Re: A silly question about tar

[Joe Hart]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Cameron Hutchison wrote:
[snip]

 
 I have the following shell function defined in my .bashrc which I use to
 extract the various archives I come across. It handles multiple archives
 on the command line. Usage is simple:
 
 $ x *.tar.gz
 
 x () 
 { 
 for archive in $@; do
 case $archive in 
 *.tar* | *.t?z)
 case $archive in 
 *.gz | *tgz | *.Z)
 TARFLAGS=--use-compress-prog gzip
 ;;
 *.bz | *.bz2 | *tbz)
 TARFLAGS=--use-compress-prog bzip2
 ;;
 *)
 TARFLAGS=
 ;;
 esac;
 tar xf $archive ${TARFLAGS}
 ;;
 *.zip | *.ZIP)
 unzip -q $archive
 ;;
 *.deb)
 dpkg-deb -x $archive .
 ;;
 *.rar)
 unrar x $archive
 ;;
 *.cpio)
 cpio --extract --make-directories --file=$archive
 ;;
 *.cpio.gz)
 gzip -dc $archive | cpio --extract --make-directories
 ;;
 *)
 echo Unknown archive format 12
 ;;
 esac;
 done
 }
 
 

Another handy little script.  I just love this list.  It's a lot easier
to type x *.zip or x *.rar than it is to right-click on a file and say
extract here over and over, or selecting a bunch of files and have 20
instances of ark start all at once.

Thanks.  I made one little adaptation so that it says it's doing
something.  I tried it on a directory full of zip files and it
uncompressed them so quickly that I thought it didn't work.  Of course
it did.

Joe

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Re: A silly question about tar

[Thomas Jollans]

On Saturday 17 March 2007 13:58, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
 On Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 05:00:21AM -0500, Adam Porter wrote:
  Thanks for your replies, everyone.  It seems to me that there might be a
  market for a simple script frontend to tar that would handle
  shell-expanded wildcards; perhaps it could be included in Debian's
  package of tar.  Would that be a good idea?  Does anything like that
  already exist?

 You use find to spit out a list of the files you want (you _may_ be able
 to just use ls -1 .tar), pipe that through xargs.  Something like this:

   ls -1 .tar.gz | xargs tar [tar options -f ]

 for each line of input it receives, xargs will tack it to the end of the
 command line you give it (in the example, it will be tacked on after the
 -f).

That shouldn't change anything. Tar is unable to unpack multiple archives, end 
or story (the exception being multi-volume archives where you need -M and 
an -f  for each file)

However, find should do it:

find . -name '*.tar.bz2' -exec tar xjf \{\} \;

Thomas



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Description: PGP signature

Re: A silly question about tar

[Douglas Allan Tutty]

On Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 02:35:01PM +0100, Thomas Jollans wrote:
 On Saturday 17 March 2007 13:58, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
  On Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 05:00:21AM -0500, Adam Porter wrote:
 
  You use find to spit out a list of the files you want (you _may_ be able
  to just use ls -1 .tar), pipe that through xargs.  Something like this:
 
  ls -1 .tar.gz | xargs tar [tar options -f ]
 
  for each line of input it receives, xargs will tack it to the end of the
  command line you give it (in the example, it will be tacked on after the
  -f).
 
 That shouldn't change anything. Tar is unable to unpack multiple archives, 
 end 
 or story (the exception being multi-volume archives where you need -M and 
 an -f  for each file)

Of course it changes everything.  xargs runs tar on each line of input
it gets.  If ls -1 finds three tarballs, it gives three lines to xargs.
xargs then runs tar three times, each with one tarball argument.

Doug.


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Re: A silly question about tar

[Tyler Smith]

On 2007-03-17, Douglas Allan Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 You use find to spit out a list of the files you want (you _may_ be able
 to just use ls -1 .tar), pipe that through xargs.  Something like this:

   ls -1 .tar.gz | xargs tar [tar options -f ]

 for each line of input it receives, xargs will tack it to the end of the
 command line you give it (in the example, it will be tacked on after the
 -f).

 I have not tested this, YMMV.

I have, and unfortunately it doesn't work. The result is the same as
the original problem with the regular * expansion:

tyler:tar- find ./ -name '*.tar.gz' | xargs echo
../one.tar.gz ./three.tar.gz ./two.tar.gz

replace echo with tar, and you see that tar is going to try and
extract the second and third archives from within the first archive,
which fails. I think you have to use some sort of loop, as other
posters have suggested.

-- 
Regards,

Tyler Smit


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Re: A silly question about tar

[Thomas Jollans]

On Saturday 17 March 2007 14:45, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
 On Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 02:35:01PM +0100, Thomas Jollans wrote:
  On Saturday 17 March 2007 13:58, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
   On Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 05:00:21AM -0500, Adam Porter wrote:
  
   You use find to spit out a list of the files you want (you _may_ be
   able to just use ls -1 .tar), pipe that through xargs.  Something like
   this:
  
 ls -1 .tar.gz | xargs tar [tar options -f ]
  
   for each line of input it receives, xargs will tack it to the end of
   the command line you give it (in the example, it will be tacked on
   after the -f).
 
  That shouldn't change anything. Tar is unable to unpack multiple
  archives, end or story (the exception being multi-volume archives where
  you need -M and an -f  for each file)

 Of course it changes everything.  xargs runs tar on each line of input
 it gets.  If ls -1 finds three tarballs, it gives three lines to xargs.
 xargs then runs tar three times, each with one tarball argument.

this is not true, see Tyler Smit's post.


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Description: PGP signature

Re: A silly question about tar

[Andrei Popescu]

Douglas Allan Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 02:35:01PM +0100, Thomas Jollans wrote:
  On Saturday 17 March 2007 13:58, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
   On Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 05:00:21AM -0500, Adam Porter wrote:
  
   You use find to spit out a list of the files you want (you _may_
   be able to just use ls -1 .tar), pipe that through xargs.
   Something like this:
  
 ls -1 .tar.gz | xargs tar [tar options -f ]
  
   for each line of input it receives, xargs will tack it to the end
   of the command line you give it (in the example, it will be
   tacked on after the -f).
  
  That shouldn't change anything. Tar is unable to unpack multiple
  archives, end or story (the exception being multi-volume archives
  where you need -M and an -f  for each file)
 
 Of course it changes everything.  xargs runs tar on each line of input
 it gets.  If ls -1 finds three tarballs, it gives three lines to
 xargs. xargs then runs tar three times, each with one tarball
 argument.

This doesn't seem to work, but you can use 'xargs -n1'.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: A silly question about tar

[Andrei Popescu]

Tyler Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 2007-03-17, Douglas Allan Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  You use find to spit out a list of the files you want (you _may_ be
  able to just use ls -1 .tar), pipe that through xargs.  Something
  like this:
 
  ls -1 .tar.gz | xargs tar [tar options -f ]
 
  for each line of input it receives, xargs will tack it to the end
  of the command line you give it (in the example, it will be tacked
  on after the -f).
 
  I have not tested this, YMMV.
 
 I have, and unfortunately it doesn't work. The result is the same as
 the original problem with the regular * expansion:
 
 tyler:tar- find ./ -name '*.tar.gz' | xargs echo
 ../one.tar.gz ./three.tar.gz ./two.tar.gz
 
 replace echo with tar, and you see that tar is going to try and
 extract the second and third archives from within the first archive,
 which fails. I think you have to use some sort of loop, as other
 posters have suggested.

It works with 'xargs -n1' (and no need for -1 to ls)

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)


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Re: A silly question about tar

[Greg Folkert]

On Sat, 2007-03-17 at 14:34 +0100, Joe Hart wrote:
 Cameron Hutchison wrote:
 [snip]
 
  
  I have the following shell function defined in my .bashrc which I use to
  extract the various archives I come across. It handles multiple archives
  on the command line. Usage is simple:
  
  $ x *.tar.gz
  
  x () 
  { 
  for archive in $@; do
  case $archive in 
  *.tar* | *.t?z)
  case $archive in 
  *.gz | *tgz | *.Z)
  TARFLAGS=--use-compress-prog gzip
  ;;
  *.bz | *.bz2 | *tbz)
  TARFLAGS=--use-compress-prog bzip2
  ;;
  *)
  TARFLAGS=
  ;;
  esac;
  tar xf $archive ${TARFLAGS}
  ;;
  *.zip | *.ZIP)
  unzip -q $archive
  ;;
  *.deb)
  dpkg-deb -x $archive .
  ;;
  *.rar)
  unrar x $archive
  ;;
  *.cpio)
  cpio --extract --make-directories --file=$archive
  ;;
  *.cpio.gz)
  gzip -dc $archive | cpio --extract --make-directories
  ;;
  *)
  echo Unknown archive format 12
  ;;
  esac;
  done
  }
  
  
 
 Another handy little script.  I just love this list.  It's a lot easier
 to type x *.zip or x *.rar than it is to right-click on a file and say
 extract here over and over, or selecting a bunch of files and have 20
 instances of ark start all at once.
 
 Thanks.  I made one little adaptation so that it says it's doing
 something.  I tried it on a directory full of zip files and it
 uncompressed them so quickly that I thought it didn't work.  Of course
 it did.

Don't forget to install unp it does all the case stuff auto-magically.

But you should also look at installing things like orange and other
archive extraction tools.
-- 
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Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at
the playfield. -- Thane Walkup


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Re: A silly question about tar

[cga2000]

On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 02:59:01AM EST, Adam Porter wrote:
 I've read the man page, googled this list and the rest of the Net, but I
 still can't figure out why this doesn't work:
 
 $ tar xjf *.tar.bz2
 tar: beryl-core-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-manager-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-plugins-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-plugins-unsupported-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-settings-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-settings-bindings-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-settings-simple-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: emerald-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: emerald-themes-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: heliodor-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
 
 Not only did it completely fail, but it skipped the first file in the
 directory, aquamarine-0.2.0.tar.bz2.  But if I run the same command on a
 single file instead of a wildcard, it works fine.
 
 Am I doing something wrong?  Why can't tar handle a wildcard list like that?

compare ..

$ tar xjf a.tar.bz2 # extract all files 
$ tar xjf a.tar.bz2 f1.txt f2.txt   # extract f1.txt  f2.txt
$ tar xjf a.tar.bz2 *.txt   # extract list of *.txt files  (1)
$ tar xjf a.tar.bz2 '*.txt' # extract files matching *.txt (2)

Note that in (1) the shell expands the unquoted *.txt to the list of
files in the current directory that match *.txt and passes this list to
tar .. while in (2) the shell does not see the wild card and passes
the *.txt pattern to tar without expanding it.

So in your above scenario, it does not skip the first file .. The
shell expands the *.tar.bz2 pattern to aquamarine, beryl-core,
beryl-manager ..  and tar looks in aquamarine for files beryl-core ..
beryl-manager .. etc.  and naturally does not find them in the archive.

I rarely need to extract the entire contents of several tar archives in
one pass but something like this should work:

$ for t in $(ls *.tar.bz2); do tar xjf $t; done

Note that, to avoid file system pollution it is probably a good idea to
get into the habit of verifying what your extraction commands exactly
do by first issuing a tar tjvf and reviewing the output.

HTH

Thanks,
cga




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Re: A silly question about tar

[Joe Hart]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Greg Folkert wrote:
 On Sat, 2007-03-17 at 14:34 +0100, Joe Hart wrote:

[snip] (script can be found in the previous message)

 Another handy little script.  I just love this list.  It's a lot easier
 to type x *.zip or x *.rar than it is to right-click on a file and say
 extract here over and over, or selecting a bunch of files and have 20
 instances of ark start all at once.

 Thanks.  I made one little adaptation so that it says it's doing
 something.  I tried it on a directory full of zip files and it
 uncompressed them so quickly that I thought it didn't work.  Of course
 it did.
 
 Don't forget to install unp it does all the case stuff auto-magically.
 
 But you should also look at installing things like orange and other
 archive extraction tools.

unp, orange.  Right.  Never heard of either of them.  I have now.

Interesting that it's called orange.  That's my ISP.

Joe

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Re: A silly question about tar

[Tyler Smith]

On 2007-03-17, Andrei Popescu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Tyler Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I have, and unfortunately it doesn't work. The result is the same as
 the original problem with the regular * expansion:
 
 tyler:tar- find ./ -name '*.tar.gz' | xargs echo
 ../one.tar.gz ./three.tar.gz ./two.tar.gz
 

 It works with 'xargs -n1' (and no need for -1 to ls)


Thanks! I originally thought of the same solution as Douglas, but I
didn't know why it wasn't working. Now I do.

-- 
Regards,

Tyler Smit


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Re: A silly question about tar

[Douglas Allan Tutty]

On Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 01:23:02PM +, Tyler Smith wrote:
 On 2007-03-17, Douglas Allan Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 I have, and unfortunately it doesn't work. The result is the same as
 the original problem with the regular * expansion:
 
 tyler:tar- find ./ -name '*.tar.gz' | xargs echo
 ../one.tar.gz ./three.tar.gz ./two.tar.gz
 
 replace echo with tar, and you see that tar is going to try and
 extract the second and third archives from within the first archive,
 which fails. I think you have to use some sort of loop, as other
 posters have suggested.
 

Make a directory to work in and change to it.

Make three files with the following contents:
file:   Contents (one line with a trailing newline):
first.txt   first file
second.txt  second file
third.txt   third file

---

$ ls -1 *.txt
first.txt
second.txt
third.txt

$ls -1 *.txt | xargs
first.txt second.txt third.txt

# which makes sense since if you say:
$ echo first.txt
first.txt

---
But what you want as a test is a command that process its input as a
file not a string (like echo).  Try cat:

$ cat first.txt
first file

$ls -1 | xargs -L 1 cat
first file

second file

third file

$
--
However, since cat will process more than one file, we don't know what
really is happening but the -L 1 should make xargs make a new comand
line for each line of input which is why I used ls -1.

I tarred this test directory up into a tarball called first.tar.gz.

I created a similar second set of files fourth.txt fifth.txt sixth.txt
into second.tar.gz

I created a third set seventh.txt eighth.txt and ninth.txt into
third.tar.gz

I then removed all the files so my test directory only had the three
tarballs.  Within that directory I issued:

$ls -1 | xargs -L 1 tar -xf

and ended up with a test subdirectory containing all nine files.

Doug.



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Re: A silly question about tar

[Tyler Smith]

On 2007-03-17, Douglas Allan Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Within that directory I issued:

   $ls -1 | xargs -L 1 tar -xf

 and ended up with a test subdirectory containing all nine files.


Ok, I tried that out. The key seems to be the arguments to xarg,
either -L 1 as you suggest, or -n 1 as suggested by another
poster. The argument to ls, ls -1 is not necessary. I tried your
example with ls *.tar.gz | and ls -1 *.tar.gz |, and both worked when
piped into xargs -L 1 or xargs -n 1, but not plain xargs.

Thanks!

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Tyler Smit


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A silly question about tar

[Adam Porter]

I've read the man page, googled this list and the rest of the Net, but I
still can't figure out why this doesn't work:

$ tar xjf *.tar.bz2
tar: beryl-core-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: beryl-manager-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: beryl-plugins-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: beryl-plugins-unsupported-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: beryl-settings-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: beryl-settings-bindings-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: beryl-settings-simple-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: emerald-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: emerald-themes-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: heliodor-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors

Not only did it completely fail, but it skipped the first file in the
directory, aquamarine-0.2.0.tar.bz2.  But if I run the same command on a
single file instead of a wildcard, it works fine.

Am I doing something wrong?  Why can't tar handle a wildcard list like that?


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Re: A silly question about tar

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 02:59:01AM -0500, Adam Porter wrote:
 I've read the man page, googled this list and the rest of the Net, but I
 still can't figure out why this doesn't work:
 
 $ tar xjf *.tar.bz2
 tar: beryl-core-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-manager-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-plugins-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-plugins-unsupported-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-settings-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-settings-bindings-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-settings-simple-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: emerald-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: emerald-themes-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: heliodor-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
 
 Not only did it completely fail, but it skipped the first file in the
 directory, aquamarine-0.2.0.tar.bz2.  But if I run the same command on a
 single file instead of a wildcard, it works fine.
 
 Am I doing something wrong?  Why can't tar handle a wildcard list like that?
 
well the -f option takes 1 argument. you gave it more than one.
tar xjf *
becomes:
tar xjf a.tar.bz2 b.tar.bz2 .
the 2nd,3rd,4th,... arguments become 'filenames to extact'. These dont
exist. see 'man tar' for more.

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Re: A silly question about tar

[Florian Kulzer]

On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 02:59:01 -0500, Adam Porter wrote:
 I've read the man page, googled this list and the rest of the Net, but I
 still can't figure out why this doesn't work:
 
 $ tar xjf *.tar.bz2
 tar: beryl-core-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-manager-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-plugins-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-plugins-unsupported-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-settings-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-settings-bindings-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: beryl-settings-simple-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: emerald-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: emerald-themes-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: heliodor-0.2.0.tar.bz2: Not found in archive
 tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
 
 Not only did it completely fail, but it skipped the first file in the
 directory, aquamarine-0.2.0.tar.bz2.  But if I run the same command on a
 single file instead of a wildcard, it works fine.
 
 Am I doing something wrong?  Why can't tar handle a wildcard list like that?

The wildcard (glob pattern) will be expanded to all the *.tar.bz2
filenames in one line, separated by spaces. This is fed as the argument
to tar. It looks like the extract action interprets the first filename
as the archive and the rest as files which should be extracted from that
archive. Of course it can then not find these names in the first archive
and fails.

I think what you want to do can be achieved like this:

for NAME in *.tar.bz2; do tar xjf $NAME; done

(This is a general bash trick. I did not test it for this specific
 case.)

-- 
Regards,
  Florian


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Re: A silly question about tar

[Celejar]

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:24:17 +0100
Florian Kulzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

[snip]

 The wildcard (glob pattern) will be expanded to all the *.tar.bz2
 filenames in one line, separated by spaces. This is fed as the argument
 to tar. It looks like the extract action interprets the first filename
 as the archive and the rest as files which should be extracted from that
 archive. Of course it can then not find these names in the first archive
 and fails.

Just to amplify what Florian and the others are saying, the *shell* is
doing the wildcard expansion, not the tar command itself.

Celejar


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I wish to ask a silly question on starting an ftp server

[shyamk]

How do you start an FTP server program ?
This might be a silly question , but it is
something for which I have no answer.

In our server , we faced a two-fold problem :

o  One that we could not log-in as any user.This I solved
   by entering single-user mode (on rebooting after we knew
   something was wrong).
o  The second thing is we can not ftp  onto our server !
   This has to mean that the FTP server program , was :
   - either corrupted
   - or not installed
   - or mysteriously  un-installed

   We settled for the first reason , because
   /usr/sbin/in.ftpd
   existed.

   Now I tried /usr/sbin/in.ftpd -S which is supposed to make the
   daemon run.But when I did a
   ps -A|less   or   ps -A|grep in.ftpd

   I did not find any semblance to ftp among the processes
   displayed.

   Please help me out. My problem is extermely urgent.

Thanks in advance,
Shyam
   

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Re: I wish to ask a silly question on starting an ftp server

[Crispin Wellington]

On Sun, 2002-04-07 at 22:05, shyamk wrote:
 
 How do you start an FTP server program ?
 This might be a silly question , but it is
 something for which I have no answer.
 
 In our server , we faced a two-fold problem :
 
 o  One that we could not log-in as any user.This I solved
by entering single-user mode (on rebooting after we knew
something was wrong).
 o  The second thing is we can not ftp  onto our server !
This has to mean that the FTP server program , was :
- either corrupted
- or not installed
- or mysteriously  un-installed
 
We settled for the first reason , because
/usr/sbin/in.ftpd
existed.
 
Now I tried /usr/sbin/in.ftpd -S which is supposed to make the
daemon run.But when I did a
ps -A|less   or   ps -A|grep in.ftpd
 
I did not find any semblance to ftp among the processes
displayed.
 
Please help me out. My problem is extermely urgent.

Your /usr/sbin/in.ftpd may be running under inetd which means it wont be
in the task list until someone connects to it.

Running in single user mode, it will never start, because inetd doesn't
run in single user mode. Run it in multi user mode. If its not working
properly in multi user mode, find out why and fix that.

Kind Regards
Crispin Wellington




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Re: I wish to ask a silly question on starting an ftp server

[Kent West]

On Sun, 2002-04-07 at 09:13, Crispin Wellington wrote:
 On Sun, 2002-04-07 at 22:05, shyamk wrote:
  
  How do you start an FTP server program ?
  This might be a silly question , but it is
  something for which I have no answer.
  
  In our server , we faced a two-fold problem :
  
  o  One that we could not log-in as any user.This I solved
 by entering single-user mode (on rebooting after we knew
 something was wrong).
  o  The second thing is we can not ftp  onto our server !
 This has to mean that the FTP server program , was :
 - either corrupted
 - or not installed
 - or mysteriously  un-installed
  
 We settled for the first reason , because
 /usr/sbin/in.ftpd
 existed.
  
 Now I tried /usr/sbin/in.ftpd -S which is supposed to make the
 daemon run.But when I did a
 ps -A|less   or   ps -A|grep in.ftpd
  
 I did not find any semblance to ftp among the processes
 displayed.
  
 Please help me out. My problem is extermely urgent.
 

I don't have any specific answers, but if you have ssh installed on the
server, I would suggest not using ftp, and instead use the sftp feature
of the ssh client. This may not be practical in your case, but it's
worth mentioning.

Kent



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Silly question: K6-3 and Enlightenment/Gnome ?

[Ingo Reimann]

Hi,

just a stupid thing:

I just introduced a K6-3 400, not overclocked, into my system, and after
that, i only get segfaoult if i want to start enlightenment/gnome. Has
anyone experiences with this? Normaly it should work...

Thanks,

ingo


I. Reimann   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inst. fuer Angew. Physik +49 251 83-33527 (fon)
Correnstr. 2-4   +49 251 83-33513 (fax)
D-48149 Muenster
Germany

Re: Silly question: K6-3 and Enlightenment/Gnome ?

[aphro]

sounds to me like some library changed or configuration changed then when
you rebooted the changes 'took effect' (cough) and that screwed E.  i've
had similar problems since i compile stuff like KDE/GNOME from sources, if
it gets outta sync somehow i may not have problems untnil the next time i
reboot.

nate

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On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, Ingo Reimann wrote:

 Hi,
 
 just a stupid thing:
 
 I just introduced a K6-3 400, not overclocked, into my system, and after
 that, i only get segfaoult if i want to start enlightenment/gnome. Has
 anyone experiences with this? Normaly it should work...
 
 Thanks,
 
 ingo
 
 
 I. Reimann   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Inst. fuer Angew. Physik +49 251 83-33527 (fon)
 Correnstr. 2-4   +49 251 83-33513 (fax)
 D-48149 Muenster
   Germany
 
 
 
 -- 
 Unsubscribe?  mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED]  /dev/null
 

Re: Silly question: K6-3 and Enlightenment/Gnome ?

[debuser]

I get a segfault when starting Enlightenment/Gnome (from pototato) about
20% of the time (logging in from xdm).  I have an AMD chip..  not sure
which one though.

I just started using Enlightenment (had been using WindowMaker) and I must
say I'm *very* impressed and other than the occasional segfault on
startup, I'm very happy with it. 

Gerry

On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, Ingo Reimann wrote:

 Hi,
 
 just a stupid thing:
 
 I just introduced a K6-3 400, not overclocked, into my system, and after
 that, i only get segfaoult if i want to start enlightenment/gnome. Has
 anyone experiences with this? Normaly it should work...
 
 Thanks,
 
 ingo
 
 
 I. Reimann   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Inst. fuer Angew. Physik +49 251 83-33527 (fon)
 Correnstr. 2-4   +49 251 83-33513 (fax)
 D-48149 Muenster
   Germany
 
 
 
 -- 
 Unsubscribe?  mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED]  /dev/null
 

Re: silly question about /dev/log (fwd)

[Pere Camps]

Hi!

Is debian prepared for having these special kind of permissions
for /dev/log?

-- p.

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:58:56 +0100 (GMT)
From: Chris Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mike Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: silly question about /dev/log


On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Mike Johnson wrote:

 While looking for world writeable files/directories on one of my Linux
 boxes, I came up with this (to me) surprise:
 srw-rw-rw-   1 root root0 Jul  4 04:02 /dev/log

Yes, I also hate this legacy UNIX design flaw.

A simple step in the right direction would be

srw-rw  1 root log  0 Jul  4 04:02 /dev/log

Then, we analyse what really _needs_ to write to the log, and give out the
relevant permission.

Note that most of the stuff that you _really_ want logged, is logged by
things running as root anyway, e.g. login failures, connection attempts,
kernel logs.

Essentially, the approach of changing /dev/log permissions as above, and
seeing what breaks, would be both interesting and useful.

Chris

silly question

[Jonathan P Tomer]

(please cc: me to replies)

is it currently possible to do a straight potato initial install, or must
one first install slink's base system and then aptify?

--phouchg
For a price I'd do about anything, except pull the trigger: for that I'd
need a pretty good cause -- Queensryche, Revolution Calling
PGP 5.0 key (0xE024447449) at http://cif.rochester.edu/~jpt/pubkey.txt

RE: silly question

[Shaleh]

On 28-Apr-99 Jonathan P Tomer wrote:
 (please cc: me to replies)
 
 is it currently possible to do a straight potato initial install, or must
 one first install slink's base system and then aptify?
 

Until we are close to freezing, I would say do a slink install and update from
that.

Re: Silly question

[Frederick Page]

Hi Daniel,

you wrote on: 01 Feb 99 at 04:13 (received 01.02.99)
about   : _Silly question_

I'm sorry if this is a really silly question, but I was wondering where
one goes to get apt-get and the necessary utilities to upgrade a hamm
system to slink via ftp?

It was already on my distribution CD (the first CD, binary), but it was in  
folder tools. So you just need to dpkg -i apt-get from that folder.

Kind regards

Frederick

Silly question

[Daniel J. Brosemer]

I'm sorry if this is a really silly question, but I was wondering where
one goes to get apt-get and the necessary utilities to upgrade a hamm
system to slink via ftp?

Thanks for the help
-Dan

Re: Silly question

[surak]

 I'm sorry if this is a really silly question, but I was wondering where
 one goes to get apt-get and the necessary utilities to upgrade a hamm
 system to slink via ftp?

Well, the way I did it, a long time ago, was to grab the apt package from
http://www.debian.org/~jgg and install it. Your best bet is to get
apt_0.1.5.deb; I'm not sure whether the newer ones will work under slink.

In /etc/apt/sources.list I changed the distribution field (`man sources.list`
for more info) to slink. Then you can run `apt-get update; apt-get
dist-upgrade` and voila!

Hope that helps,

Alan

 Thanks for the help
 -Dan

Re: Silly Question... VERY simple :)

[Michael Beattie]

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Liran Zvibel wrote:

 On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Michael Beattie wrote:
 
  
  Where is the documentation for C ? i.e. language help?
  
  I have a hard time remembering syntax and stuff.. :)
  
 Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
 If you know the name of the function just type 
 man function

Perfect, but I have not got the appropriate package installed, and I cant
seem to find it.. call me stupid, blind whatever... where can the C
manpages / info pages be found. When I used DO$ to program, DJGPP had info
pages on all sorts of things.. surely there is an equivalent? I just cant
find the package :)



   Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

   PGP Key available, reply with pgpkey as subject.
 -
Jump through hoops? I don't think so. Crawl through Windows? *HELL NO*!!
 -
Debian GNU/Linux  Ooohh You are missing out!

Re: Silly Question... VERY simple :)

[Havoc Pennington]

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Michael Beattie wrote:
 
 Perfect, but I have not got the appropriate package installed, and I cant
 seem to find it.. call me stupid, blind whatever... where can the C
 manpages / info pages be found. When I used DO$ to program, DJGPP had info
 pages on all sorts of things.. surely there is an equivalent? I just cant
 find the package :)
 

Well, the 'strcpy' man page is in the manpages-dev package, that sounds
like it might be what you want. The gcc docs ought to come with the gcc
package.

Havoc Pennington  http://pobox.com/~hp

Re: Silly Question... VERY simple :)

[servis]

*- Havoc Pennington wrote about Re: Silly Question... VERY simple :)
| 
| On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Michael Beattie wrote:
|  
|  Perfect, but I have not got the appropriate package installed, and I cant
|  seem to find it.. call me stupid, blind whatever... where can the C
|  manpages / info pages be found. When I used DO$ to program, DJGPP had info
|  pages on all sorts of things.. surely there is an equivalent? I just cant
|  find the package :)
|  
| 
| Well, the 'strcpy' man page is in the manpages-dev package, that sounds
| like it might be what you want. The gcc docs ought to come with the gcc
| package.
| 

Don't forget the libc6-doc Debian package.  It contains the info files
for the libc library, 'info libc'.

-- 
Brian 
-
Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes,  
 because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes. 
   - unknown  

Mechanical Engineering  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Purdue University   http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/~servis
-

Re: Silly Question... VERY simple :)

[Michael Beattie]

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

[snip]
 | 
 | Well, the 'strcpy' man page is in the manpages-dev package, that sounds
 | like it might be what you want. The gcc docs ought to come with the gcc
 | package.
 | 
 
 Don't forget the libc6-doc Debian package.  It contains the info files
 for the libc library, 'info libc'.

Ripper... they had what I want.. thanks :)


   Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

   PGP Key available, reply with pgpkey as subject.
 -
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 -
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Re: Silly Question... VERY simple :)

[Liran Zvibel]

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Michael Beattie wrote:

 On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Liran Zvibel wrote:
 
  On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Michael Beattie wrote:
  
   
   Where is the documentation for C ? i.e. language help?
   
   I have a hard time remembering syntax and stuff.. :)
   
  Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  If you know the name of the function just type 
  man function
 
 Perfect, but I have not got the appropriate package installed, and I cant
 seem to find it.. call me stupid, blind whatever... where can the C
 manpages / info pages be found. When I used DO$ to program, DJGPP had info
 pages on all sorts of things.. surely there is an equivalent? I just cant
 find the package :)
 
Try the manpages-dev package.
 
Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

Liran.
---
http://www.math.tau.ac.il/~liranz/
 

Re: Silly Question... VERY simple :)

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,
M == M C Vernon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 M Hmm. I prefer Schildt's C the complete reference.

Gack! The annotations are kown to be incorrect; the man even
 fails to describe the standard he has in front of him. On the
 comp.lang.c newsgroup, people have stated they can open the book at
 any random page, and have so far not failed to find an error within
 two pages.

It is a cheap way to get the standard, though. Just ignore
 Schildt's own contribution.

manoj
-- 
 Imagine what we can imagine! Arthur Rubinstein
Manoj Srivastava  [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/
Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E

Silly Question... VERY simple :)

[Michael Beattie]

Where is the documentation for C ? i.e. language help?

I have a hard time remembering syntax and stuff.. :)

   Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

   PGP Key available, reply with pgpkey as subject.
 -
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 -
Debian GNU/Linux  Ooohh You are missing out!

Re: Silly Question... VERY simple :)

[Havoc Pennington]

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Michael Beattie wrote:
 
 Where is the documentation for C ? i.e. language help?
 
 I have a hard time remembering syntax and stuff.. :)
 

You're best off just buying The C Programming Language (ANSI edition). 
It isn't very expensive and the hardcopy is handy. There may be some free
stuff on the web though, try www.infoseek.com.

Havoc Pennington  http://pobox.com/~hp

Re: Silly Question... VERY simple :)

[M.C. Vernon]

On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Havoc Pennington wrote:

 
 On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Michael Beattie wrote:
  
  Where is the documentation for C ? i.e. language help?
  
  I have a hard time remembering syntax and stuff.. :)
  
 
 You're best off just buying The C Programming Language (ANSI edition). 
 It isn't very expensive and the hardcopy is handy. There may be some free
 stuff on the web though, try www.infoseek.com.
 
Hmm. I prefer Schildt's C the complete reference.

Is there any compiler-specific documentation (esp wrt to graphics and
low-level hardware/system stuff)?

Matthew 

-- 
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

Steward of the Cambridge Tolkien Society
Selwyn College Computer Support
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/8841/
http://www.cam.ac.uk/CambUniv/Societies/tolkien/
http://pick.sel.cam.ac.uk/

Re: Silly Question... VERY simple :)

[Liran Zvibel]

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Michael Beattie wrote:

 
 Where is the documentation for C ? i.e. language help?
 
 I have a hard time remembering syntax and stuff.. :)
 
Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
If you know the name of the function just type 
man function
If you don't know C, and would like to learn, I'd recommend The C
Programming Language/KernighanRitchie (I'm not sure whether I got the
names spelled right).
Another somewhat more modern book on C is A Book On C/Pollsome more
people. If all you need is a reference I'd go for The C prog. Lang.

Liran.
---
http://www.math.tau.ac.il/~liranz/

Re: Silly Question... VERY simple :)

[David B. Teague]

On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Havoc Pennington wrote:

 On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Michael Beattie wrote:
  Where is the documentation for C ? i.e. language help?
  I have a hard time remembering syntax and stuff.. :)
 
 You're best off just buying The C Programming Language (ANSI edition). 
 It isn't very expensive and the hardcopy is handy. There may be some free
 stuff on the web though, try www.infoseek.com.


Please get the companion  book to KR ANSI C, namely the  C AnswerBook
by Tondo and Gimpel. It provides annotated solutions to all the problems
in KR. Worth every cent in my book. 

Look on the publishers web page - they sometimes have useful stuff about
their books there -- sometime erata and source code.

--David
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David B Teague | Ask me how user interface copyrights  software
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | patents make programing a dangerous business. 

Re: Silly Question... VERY simple :)

[Gary L. Hennigan]

M.C. Vernon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
| On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Havoc Pennington wrote:
| 
|  
|  On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Michael Beattie wrote:
|   
|   Where is the documentation for C ? i.e. language help?
|   
|   I have a hard time remembering syntax and stuff.. :)
|   
|  
|  You're best off just buying The C Programming Language (ANSI edition). 
|  It isn't very expensive and the hardcopy is handy. There may be some free
|  stuff on the web though, try www.infoseek.com.
|  
| Hmm. I prefer Schildt's C the complete reference.

Don't ever go into comp.lang.c and say that! Most of the regulars in
that group would vehemently argue with you about even looking at
Schildt's book. It has several glaring errors and in a couple of
places doesn't even follow the ANSI standard (namely I understand he
uses void main a lot). Shoot, this topic has even garnered a place
in the comp.lang.c FAQ:

Excerpt from comp.lang.c FAQ, answer to question 11.2
The mistitled _Annotated ANSI C Standard_, with annotations by
Herbert Schildt, contains most of the text of ISO 9899; it is
published by Osborne/McGraw-Hill, ISBN 0-07-881952-0, and sells
in the U.S. for approximately $40.  It has been suggested that
the price differential between this work and the official
standard reflects the value of the annotations: they are plagued
by numerous errors and omissions, and a few pages of the
Standard itself are missing.  Many people on the net recommend
ignoring the annotations entirely.  A review of the annotations
(annotated annotations) by Clive Feather can be found on the
web at http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/schildt.html .

| Is there any compiler-specific documentation (esp wrt to graphics and
| low-level hardware/system stuff)?

Sorry, maybe someone else can help you with this. Certainly the man
pages are of great use as references.

Gary

Re: Silly Question... VERY simple :)

[Havoc Pennington]

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, M.C. Vernon wrote:

 Hmm. I prefer Schildt's C the complete reference.


Haven't tried it myself, but on comp.lang.c.moderated they are always
calling him Shit and generally degrading the guy. So I was discouraged
from doing so. ;-) 

KR is a very concise if occasionally not-so-thorough reference. C is a
fairly small and simple language. 
 
 Is there any compiler-specific documentation (esp wrt to graphics and
 low-level hardware/system stuff)?
 

There is documentation on gcc/egcs, yes, 'info gcc' should pull it up.
Graphics and hardware would mostly be a kernel or X issue, not the
compiler. You could look at the kernel console code and some X server
code, and the specs for the hardware you want to program.

Havoc Pennington  http://pobox.com/~hp

Re: Silly Question... VERY simple :)

[Raymond A. Ingles]

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, M.C. Vernon wrote:
 On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Havoc Pennington wrote:
  On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Michael Beattie wrote:
   
   Where is the documentation for C ? i.e. language help?
   I have a hard time remembering syntax and stuff.. :)
  
  You're best off just buying The C Programming Language (ANSI edition). 
  It isn't very expensive and the hardcopy is handy. There may be some free
  stuff on the web though, try www.infoseek.com.
  
 Hmm. I prefer Schildt's C the complete reference.

 Isn't Schildt the guy who writes from a DOS perspective? I know that the
comp.lang.c people hate him. Apparently his books are just teeming with
errors. The comp.lang.c FAQ
(http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/C-faq/faq/faq.html)
has a bibliography that might be a good place to start.

Still, I'd second the nomination for Kernighan  Ritchie's The C
Programming Language, Second Edition (ANSI). This is a very good, concise
book, which I have found *very* useful. ISBN 0-13-110362-8.

 Is there any compiler-specific documentation (esp wrt to graphics and
 low-level hardware/system stuff)?

 'info gcc' is probably a good place to start.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles (248) 377-7735   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I can write programs that control air traffic, intercept ballistic
  missiles, reconcile bank accounts, control production lines.

 So can I, and so can any man, but do they work when you do write them?

  - Fred Brooks, after Shakespeare, in The Mythical Man-Month