Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system

2017-09-11 Thread Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 

  
  

Urs Thuermann:

  I see that some new versions of packages are installed without
the old versions being removed, although they are marked as
automatically installed, e.g. Linux kernel, clang, llvm, and
some others. For example
  
# aptitude search "~i clang"
  i   clang - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
  i A clang-3.5 - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
  i A libclang-common-3.5-dev   - clang library - Common development package
  i A libclang1-3.5 - C interface to the clang library

   and aptitude full-upgrade will install clang-3.8 but not
remove clang-3.5.

Ben Finney:


  
  That shows the ‘clang’ package is *not* marked auto-installed.

M. Thuermann did explicitly say clang-3.5, not clang.

Re: Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system

2017-09-08 Thread Cindy-Sue Causey 
On 9/7/17, Ben Finney  wrote:
> Urs Thuermann  writes:
>
>> I see that some new versions of packages are installed without the old
>> versions being removed, although they are marked as automatically
>> installed, e.g. Linux kernel, clang, llvm, and some others.  For
>> example
>>
>>   # aptitude search "~i clang"
>>   i   clang - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM
>> based)
>>   i A clang-3.5 - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM
>> based)
>>   i A libclang-common-3.5-dev   - clang library - Common development
>> package
>>   i A libclang1-3.5 - C interface to the clang library
>
> That shows the ‘clang’ package is *not* marked auto-installed. That is,
> the APT database shows it was manually requested, and so will never be
> auto-removed.


Oh, oh, o.. Quite a while back I observed on here that apt-get
tells me packages are now marked as manually installed if I
(accidentally) do an "apt-get install" command on a package that turns
out to already be current. That happened to me regularly when I was
having to break my upgrades into small sized chunks while doing them
every day (k/t small town dialup access).

I'd *almost* be willing to bet that your "the APT database shows it
was manually requested, and so will never be auto-removed" comes into
play with respect to that apt-get advisement. It would be interesting
to test it if that actually does... :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

Re: Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system

2017-09-07 Thread Ben Finney 
Urs Thuermann  writes:

> I see that some new versions of packages are installed without the old
> versions being removed, although they are marked as automatically
> installed, e.g. Linux kernel, clang, llvm, and some others.  For
> example
>
>   # aptitude search "~i clang"
>   i   clang - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
>   i A clang-3.5 - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
>   i A libclang-common-3.5-dev   - clang library - Common development package
>   i A libclang1-3.5 - C interface to the clang library

That shows the ‘clang’ package is *not* marked auto-installed. That is,
the APT database shows it was manually requested, and so will never be
auto-removed.

-- 
 \ “… a voice said reassuringly: cheer up, things could get worse. |
  `\So I cheered up and, sure enough, things got worse.” —James C. |
_o__)   Hagerty, 1909–1981 |
Ben Finney

Re: Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system

2017-09-07 Thread Sven Joachim 
On 2017-09-07 17:07 +0200, Urs Thuermann wrote:

> After fully updating my jessie system using
>
> aptitude update; aptitude full-upgrade
>
> I edited sources.list to dist-upgrade to strech.  A folloing aptitude
> upgrade wants to install additional 1.5 GB on my system which is
> currently ~5 GB, i.e. a 30% increase:
>
>   # df -h / /usr
>   Filesystem  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
>   /dev/dm-0   2.0G  1.8G  135M  93% /
>   /dev/dm-2   7.8G  4.4G  3.0G  60% /usr
>   # du -hs /root
>   1.4G/root
>   # aptitude upgrade
>   Resolving dependencies...
>   ...
>   The following NEW packages will be installed:
> btrfs-progs{a} clang-3.8{a} cpp-6{a} cpp-6-doc{a} dh-autoreconf{a}
> ...
>   The following packages will be REMOVED:
> cpp-4.9-doc{u} docutils-common{u} docutils-doc{u} g++-4.9{u} 
> gir1.2-vte-2.90{u}
> ...
>   The following packages will be upgraded:
> acct acl acpi acpi-support-base acpid adduser adwaita-icon-theme apache2
> ...
>   1151 packages upgraded, 297 newly installed, 128 to remove and 82 not 
> upgraded.
>   Need to get 1843 MB of archives. After unpacking 1537 MB will be used.
>   Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]
>
> I see that some new versions of packages are installed without the old
> versions being removed, although they are marked as automatically
> installed, e.g. Linux kernel, clang, llvm, and some others.  For
> example
>
>   # aptitude search "~i clang"
>   i   clang - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
>   i A clang-3.5 - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
>   i A libclang-common-3.5-dev   - clang library - Common development package
>   i A libclang1-3.5 - C interface to the clang library
> 
> and aptitude full-upgrade will install clang-3.8 but not remove
> clang-3.5.

This happens because clang-3.5 and gcc-4.9 provide the c-compiler
virtual package which is a dependency/recommendation of quite a few
packages (usually via an alternative: gcc | c-compiler).  Apt does not
autoremove such packages since they are not unused.  This was once
convincingly explained to me by aptitude's creator[1].

> But my suspicion is that even when I manually remove all
> these old packages, the installation is still unreasonably larger than
> it is currently.

Quite possibly.  The -Z and -D flags can help you to identify the
biggest offenders and why they are pulled in.

Cheers,
   Sven


1. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=477166#16

Re: Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system

2017-09-07 Thread Urs Thuermann 
Dejan Jocic  writes:

> Can you check what happens if you use apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
> followed by apt-get dist-upgrade? Aptitude is not really best tool for
> upgrades between distribution releases.

I changed to aptitude quite some time ago, because it seems to better
remove unused automatically installed packages, although it still does
not work quite satisfactory.

OK, I hope I find some time tonight, to backup /, /usr, and /var and
then do a dist-upgrade with apt-get.  But it seems not be very
different:

# apt-get --auto-remove dist-upgrade
...
1215 upgraded, 412 newly installed, 161 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 1930 MB of archives.
After this operation, 1560 MB of additional disk space will be used.
E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/.

This command also installs e.g. clang-3.8 but does not remove the
automatically installed clang-3.5.

urs

Re: Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system

2017-09-07 Thread Dejan Jocic 
On 07-09-17, Urs Thuermann wrote:
> After fully updating my jessie system using
> 
> aptitude update; aptitude full-upgrade
> 
> I edited sources.list to dist-upgrade to strech.  A folloing aptitude
> upgrade wants to install additional 1.5 GB on my system which is
> currently ~5 GB, i.e. a 30% increase:
> 
>   # df -h / /usr
>   Filesystem  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
>   /dev/dm-0   2.0G  1.8G  135M  93% /
>   /dev/dm-2   7.8G  4.4G  3.0G  60% /usr
>   # du -hs /root
>   1.4G/root
>   # aptitude upgrade
>   Resolving dependencies...
>   ...
>   The following NEW packages will be installed:
> btrfs-progs{a} clang-3.8{a} cpp-6{a} cpp-6-doc{a} dh-autoreconf{a}
> ...
>   The following packages will be REMOVED:
> cpp-4.9-doc{u} docutils-common{u} docutils-doc{u} g++-4.9{u} 
> gir1.2-vte-2.90{u}
> ...
>   The following packages will be upgraded:
> acct acl acpi acpi-support-base acpid adduser adwaita-icon-theme apache2
> ...
>   1151 packages upgraded, 297 newly installed, 128 to remove and 82 not 
> upgraded.
>   Need to get 1843 MB of archives. After unpacking 1537 MB will be used.
>   Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]
> 
> I see that some new versions of packages are installed without the old
> versions being removed, although they are marked as automatically
> installed, e.g. Linux kernel, clang, llvm, and some others.  For
> example
> 
>   # aptitude search "~i clang"
>   i   clang - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
>   i A clang-3.5 - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
>   i A libclang-common-3.5-dev   - clang library - Common development package
>   i A libclang1-3.5 - C interface to the clang library
> 
> and aptitude full-upgrade will install clang-3.8 but not remove
> clang-3.5.  But my suspicion is that even when I manually remove all
> these old packages, the installation is still unreasonably larger than
> it is currently.
> 
> urs
> 

Can you check what happens if you use apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
followed by apt-get dist-upgrade? Aptitude is not really best tool for
upgrades between distribution releases.

Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system

2017-09-07 Thread Urs Thuermann 
After fully updating my jessie system using

aptitude update; aptitude full-upgrade

I edited sources.list to dist-upgrade to strech.  A folloing aptitude
upgrade wants to install additional 1.5 GB on my system which is
currently ~5 GB, i.e. a 30% increase:

  # df -h / /usr
  Filesystem  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
  /dev/dm-0   2.0G  1.8G  135M  93% /
  /dev/dm-2   7.8G  4.4G  3.0G  60% /usr
  # du -hs /root
  1.4G/root
  # aptitude upgrade
  Resolving dependencies...
  ...
  The following NEW packages will be installed:
btrfs-progs{a} clang-3.8{a} cpp-6{a} cpp-6-doc{a} dh-autoreconf{a}
...
  The following packages will be REMOVED:
cpp-4.9-doc{u} docutils-common{u} docutils-doc{u} g++-4.9{u} 
gir1.2-vte-2.90{u}
...
  The following packages will be upgraded:
acct acl acpi acpi-support-base acpid adduser adwaita-icon-theme apache2
...
  1151 packages upgraded, 297 newly installed, 128 to remove and 82 not 
upgraded.
  Need to get 1843 MB of archives. After unpacking 1537 MB will be used.
  Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]

I see that some new versions of packages are installed without the old
versions being removed, although they are marked as automatically
installed, e.g. Linux kernel, clang, llvm, and some others.  For
example

  # aptitude search "~i clang"
  i   clang - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
  i A clang-3.5 - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
  i A libclang-common-3.5-dev   - clang library - Common development package
  i A libclang1-3.5 - C interface to the clang library

and aptitude full-upgrade will install clang-3.8 but not remove
clang-3.5.  But my suspicion is that even when I manually remove all
these old packages, the installation is still unreasonably larger than
it is currently.

urs