Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 09:44:48AM +0200, Osamu Aoki wrote: On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 10:28:44PM -0800, Brian Nelson wrote: I would venture to say that only 'apt-get source' is useful. 'apt-get install' doesn't offer anything 'aptitude install' offers. In fact, if you use aptitude, you should never use 'apt-get install' since you lose the benefits of aptitude tracking automatic dependencies. The only times I've used 'apt-get install' in the past 1.5 years or so are on newly installed systems, and then it's only to do 'apt-get install aptitude'. ;) Very good point. I expanded aptitude section and pointed out this very important fact. Once you start using prgnaptitude/prgn, it is depreciated to use That should be deprecated. While depreciated is a common misspelling, that word actually means reduced in value, such as the way a three-year-old car is worth less than a new one. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 10:28:44PM -0800, Brian Nelson wrote: Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 07:35:49PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 08:21:11PM +0200, Peter Palfrader wrote: On Fri, 02 Apr 2004, Dan Jacobson wrote: Anyway, it seems no tool keeps users alert that some of their packages are no longer. Perhaps it should appear when one does dist-upgrades, or maybe a deb orphan-like tool that one could run from crontab. You mean like dselect? Also aptitude. Don't use apt-get for serious administration; 'apt-get install' is useful, but for the rest you should use a real front-end. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Let me add this to my reference starting paragraph. chapt id=packageDebian package management p Don't use prgnapt-get/prgn for serious administration; ttapt-get install/tt is useful, but for the rest you should use real front-ends such as prgndselect/prgn and prgnaptitude/prgn. I (or Thomas) actually toned down this quite a bit. apt-get is a basic command-line front end to APT. aptitude and synaptic are, respectively, text mode and GUI front ends which provide more advanced features. aptitude, for example, remembers which packages you deliberately installed and which packages were pulled in through dependencies; the latter packages are automatically de-installed by aptitude when they are no longer needed by any deliberately installed packages. I would venture to say that only 'apt-get source' is useful. 'apt-get install' doesn't offer anything 'aptitude install' offers. In fact, if you use aptitude, you should never use 'apt-get install' since you lose the benefits of aptitude tracking automatic dependencies. The only times I've used 'apt-get install' in the past 1.5 years or so are on newly installed systems, and then it's only to do 'apt-get install aptitude'. ;) Very good point. I expanded aptitude section and pointed out this very important fact. Once you start using prgnaptitude/prgn, it is depreciated to use prgnapt-get/prgn for installing packages since you lose the benefits of prgnaptitude/prgn tracking automatic dependencies. Thanks. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Once you start using prgnaptitude/prgn, it is depreciated to use prgnapt-get/prgn for installing packages since you lose the benefits of prgnaptitude/prgn tracking automatic dependencies. What's pgrn? -- Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
Paul Johnson wrote: Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Once you start using prgnaptitude/prgn, it is depreciated to use prgnapt-get/prgn for installing packages since you lose the benefits of prgnaptitude/prgn tracking automatic dependencies. What's pgrn? It's prgn. Regards, David. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 12:52:24AM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Once you start using prgnaptitude/prgn, it is depreciated to use prgnapt-get/prgn for installing packages since you lose the benefits of prgnaptitude/prgn tracking automatic dependencies. What's pgrn? That is SGML tag for command name. (I copied from source.) By the way, -R and -G in manual does not seem to work together and in some conditions. H... I will hold off further rewrite of this section until I get to used to aptitude. (I have been using primarily dselect) Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
Katipo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Paul Johnson wrote: Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Once you start using prgnaptitude/prgn, it is depreciated to use prgnapt-get/prgn for installing packages since you lose the benefits of prgnaptitude/prgn tracking automatic dependencies. What's pgrn? It's prgn. and it does? -- Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 12:33:54PM -0500, Travis Crump wrote: Brian Nelson wrote: I would venture to say that only 'apt-get source' is useful. Don't forget 'apt-get build-dep' and 'apt-get moo'... Try all this :) $ aptitude moo $ aptitude -v moo $ aptitude -vv moo $ aptitude -vvv moo $ aptitude - moo $ aptitude -v moo $ aptitude -vv moo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
Katipo wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Once you start using prgnaptitude/prgn, it is depreciated to use prgnapt-get/prgn for installing packages since you lose the benefits of prgnaptitude/prgn tracking automatic dependencies. What's pgrn? It's prgn. Sorry. I meant to include something else. That probably came across as arrogant. It's what's called an attribute in the SGML medium. There are two types (that are included in the text body), 'status' and 'identifier.' This would probably be a status type, and a shortened form of something very much like 'PRoGramme Name.' Regards, David. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 01:56:44PM -0500, Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote:
On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 12:52:44PM +0200, Martin Kuball wrote:
| Would you like to explain this a little bit? What exactly is the
| advantage of using a front end over plain apt-get. At least I did not
| encounter any problems using the apt-get aproach.
'apt-get {install,upgrade,dist-upgrade}' works as intended. However,
it has the following limitations :
. no notification is a package becomes 'obsolete' (removed from
the package repository)
. no way to trace dependencies to resolve any
installation/upgrade issues
. no way to track what packages are automatically installed
solely to meet a dependency (and therefore no way to
automatically remove them if the package depending on it
is removed)
. no way to install and remove packages simultaneously (you
must run apt-get at least twice)
. no way to browse what packages are available or installed
. no way to show details for just a specific version of a
package ('apt-cache show' gives details for all available
versions)
. when things go wrong, its output can be confusing even to
experts; an interactive dependency resolver is much easier to
follow in practice
--
Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 01:56:44PM -0500, Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote: . no way to install and remove packages simultaneously (you must run apt-get at least twice) Not true: apt-get remove --purge program1 program2+ will purge program1 and install program2 I believe there are some additional ways too, such as 'install' and appending '-' to packages to remove, or something. I apologize for not responding to the original message, but I don't have it anymore. -- -johann koenig Now Playing: Insatiable - City In The Boonies : Still Standing (Disc 3) Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 21st day of Discord in the YOLD 3170 My public pgp key: http://mental-graffiti.com/pgp/johannkoenig.pgp pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
Am Friday 02 April 2004 22:46 schrieb Osamu Aoki: p Don't use prgnapt-get/prgn for serious administration; ttapt-get install/tt is useful, but for the rest you should use real front-ends such as prgndselect/prgn and prgnaptitude/prgn. Would you like to explain this a little bit? What exactly is the advantage of using a front end over plain apt-get. At least I did not encounter any problems using the apt-get aproach. Martin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
Brian Nelson wrote: I would venture to say that only 'apt-get source' is useful. Don't forget 'apt-get build-dep' and 'apt-get moo'... signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 12:52:44PM +0200, Martin Kuball wrote:
| Am Friday 02 April 2004 22:46 schrieb Osamu Aoki:
| p
| Don't use prgnapt-get/prgn for serious administration;
| ttapt-get install/tt is useful, but for the rest you should use
| real front-ends such as prgndselect/prgn and
| prgnaptitude/prgn.
|
| Would you like to explain this a little bit? What exactly is the
| advantage of using a front end over plain apt-get. At least I did not
| encounter any problems using the apt-get aproach.
'apt-get {install,upgrade,dist-upgrade}' works as intended. However,
it has the following limitations :
. no notification is a package becomes 'obsolete' (removed from
the package repository)
. no way to trace dependencies to resolve any
installation/upgrade issues
. no way to track what packages are automatically installed
solely to meet a dependency (and therefore no way to
automatically remove them if the package depending on it
is removed)
. no way to install and remove packages simultaneously (you
must run apt-get at least twice)
. no way to browse what packages are available or installed
. no way to show details for just a specific version of a
package ('apt-cache show' gives details for all available
versions)
I'm sure this list isn't exhaustive, but it gives an idea why it is
recommended to use a program intended for end-user (admin) use such as
aptitude instead of a development proof-of-concept program (which is
what 'apt-get' and 'apt-cache' are).
-D
--
He who finds a wife finds what is good
and receives favor from the Lord.
Proverbs 18:22
www: http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote: I'm sure this list isn't exhaustive, but it gives an idea why it is recommended to use a program intended for end-user (admin) use such as aptitude instead of a development proof-of-concept program (which is what 'apt-get' and 'apt-cache' are). And to anyone who hasn't tried aptitude, don't be put off by its description as a a curses-based apt frontend. You can use it right from the command line just like you would apt-get for most everything you are probably now doing with apt-get and apt-cache: aptitude install, aptitude update, aptitude dist-upgrade, aptitude search, aptitude show, aptitude purge. See the man page. Oh, and be sure to check /usr/doc/share/aptitude/README. It will explain its powerful searching and regular expression package selection capabilities (again, all from the command line). You don't ever have to use the curses GUI if you don't want to - I don't. dircha -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004, Dan Jacobson wrote: Anyway, it seems no tool keeps users alert that some of their packages are no longer. Perhaps it should appear when one does dist-upgrades, or maybe a deb orphan-like tool that one could run from crontab. You mean like dselect? --- Obsolete and local packages present on system --- - Obsolete/local Required packages - --- Obsolete/local Required packages in section libs --- *** Req libs libperl5.6 5.6.1-8.6 none - Obsolete/local Standard packages - --- Obsolete/local Standard packages in section net --- *** Std net libdns5 9.2.1-2.woo none *** Std net libisc4 9.2.1-2.woo none [..] Peter -- PGP signed and encrypted | .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** messages preferred.| : :' : The universal | `. `' Operating System http://www.palfrader.org/ | `-http://www.debian.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
tbm [tempest] has been removed from Debian unstable because it has tbm never released with stable, upstream is dead, and there was only one tbm single upload. Hmmm, BTW this brings up that if one just does apt-get dist-upgrade, one will accrue lots of removed packages as the years pass. Indeed one might even tell friends to apt-get install such a package, only to get the reply that there [now] is no such package. (So don't casually remove it too as it will be tough to ever get back if one needs it.) Anyway, it seems no tool keeps users alert that some of their packages are no longer. Perhaps it should appear when one does dist-upgrades, or maybe a deb orphan-like tool that one could run from crontab. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 08:21:11PM +0200, Peter Palfrader wrote: On Fri, 02 Apr 2004, Dan Jacobson wrote: Anyway, it seems no tool keeps users alert that some of their packages are no longer. Perhaps it should appear when one does dist-upgrades, or maybe a deb orphan-like tool that one could run from crontab. You mean like dselect? Also aptitude. Don't use apt-get for serious administration; 'apt-get install' is useful, but for the rest you should use a real front-end. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 07:35:49PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 08:21:11PM +0200, Peter Palfrader wrote: On Fri, 02 Apr 2004, Dan Jacobson wrote: Anyway, it seems no tool keeps users alert that some of their packages are no longer. Perhaps it should appear when one does dist-upgrades, or maybe a deb orphan-like tool that one could run from crontab. You mean like dselect? Also aptitude. Don't use apt-get for serious administration; 'apt-get install' is useful, but for the rest you should use a real front-end. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Let me add this to my reference starting paragraph. chapt id=packageDebian package management p Don't use prgnapt-get/prgn for serious administration; ttapt-get install/tt is useful, but for the rest you should use real front-ends such as prgndselect/prgn and prgnaptitude/prgn. -- Did I screw-up English? Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: keep users alert to packages deleted from debian
Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 07:35:49PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 08:21:11PM +0200, Peter Palfrader wrote: On Fri, 02 Apr 2004, Dan Jacobson wrote: Anyway, it seems no tool keeps users alert that some of their packages are no longer. Perhaps it should appear when one does dist-upgrades, or maybe a deb orphan-like tool that one could run from crontab. You mean like dselect? Also aptitude. Don't use apt-get for serious administration; 'apt-get install' is useful, but for the rest you should use a real front-end. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Let me add this to my reference starting paragraph. chapt id=packageDebian package management p Don't use prgnapt-get/prgn for serious administration; ttapt-get install/tt is useful, but for the rest you should use real front-ends such as prgndselect/prgn and prgnaptitude/prgn. I would venture to say that only 'apt-get source' is useful. 'apt-get install' doesn't offer anything 'aptitude install' offers. In fact, if you use aptitude, you should never use 'apt-get install' since you lose the benefits of aptitude tracking automatic dependencies. The only times I've used 'apt-get install' in the past 1.5 years or so are on newly installed systems, and then it's only to do 'apt-get install aptitude'. ;) -- You win again, gravity! pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
