Re: mail service

[황병희]

deloptes  writes:

> fxkl47BF wrote:
>
>> no offense taken
>> i use expect_mkpasswd to generate passwords
>> decades ago i got tired of trying to come up with user names
>> i just use expect_mkpasswd to make a short unique name
>> today everyone is trying to glean all of the personal info they can
>> i try not give out any more than is necessary
>
> but we are still human and at least I prefer seeing a human like name and
> not some scribles, but ofcourse it is your choice how you appear in the
> public.

+1;

Sincerely, Byung-Hee from South Korea

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 10 oct 21, 10:31:58, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > In general, the circumstances which would require one to use a tool like
> > protonmail are not commonly observed in connection with a list like
> > debian-user.
> 
> While protonmail might be used for such situations, in my experience
> most protonmail users I've seen are just people that are sufficiently
> technically aware to know that they should stay away from gmail and
> friends and look for a quality email provider (posteo being another
> popular provider in that space).
> 
> So, my own bias would rather tend to expect good behavior (good
> questions and good answers) from participants posting from
> protonmail ;-)

To add to this, usually the contents of the message are much more 
revealing, e.g. use of punctuation and capitalisation ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 10 oct 21, 17:18:13, fxkl47BF wrote:
> just one more thing
> 
> posteo was mentioned as an alternative
> i have a posteo account i will drop in a few months
> their spam policy is to bounce it back to the sender
> the account own has no say
> 
> i also have a mailfence account i will drop
> a while back i stopped getting mail from my bank
> i investigated and found the bank mail was generating a false positive virus
> i informed mailfence and they agreed it was probably the cause of my trouble
> but they didn't bother to fix it
> several months later they started passing mail from my bank

With ProtonMail I've only had trouble receiving automatic stuff like 
notifications[1].

Those are often similar enough to spam to be difficult to distinguish 
from actual spam.

For one particular (in)famous social network I solved it by activating 
encrypted notifications[2].

[1] That I know of, of course. ;)
[2] Was positively surprised to learn they offer this.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: mail service

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 10 oct 21, 13:41:33, fxkl47BF wrote:
> 
> once again i totally agree and disagree
> gmail, yahoo, gmx, etc. state that they scan mail going through their service

They are free to scan all my postings to a publicly archived list, same 
as the rest of the internet ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: mail service

[deloptes]

fxkl47BF wrote:

> no offense taken
> i use expect_mkpasswd to generate passwords
> decades ago i got tired of trying to come up with user names
> i just use expect_mkpasswd to make a short unique name
> today everyone is trying to glean all of the personal info they can
> i try not give out any more than is necessary

but we are still human and at least I prefer seeing a human like name and
not some scribles, but ofcourse it is your choice how you appear in the
public.

-- 
FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[Brian]

On Sun 10 Oct 2021 at 19:46:39 +, fxkl47BF wrote:

[Mangled quoted text deleted]

> > You have a link to a statement of this policy?
> >
> > -
> >
> > Brian.
> 
> i do not
> only a personal email from supp...@posteo.de

I tend to take such mails from an ISP's front-line support with a pinch
of salt and not as gospel.

-- 
Brian.

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[fxkl47BF]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, October 10th, 2021 at 1:46 PM, Brian  wrote:

> On Sun 10 Oct 2021 at 17:18:13 +, fxkl47BF wrote:
>
> > just one more thing
> >
> > posteo was mentioned as an alternative
> >
> > i have a posteo account i will drop in a few months
> >
> > their spam policy is to bounce it back to the sender
> >
> > the account own has no say
>
> You have a link to a statement of this policy?
>
> -
>
> Brian.

i do not
only a personal email from supp...@posteo.de

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[Brian]

On Sun 10 Oct 2021 at 17:18:13 +, fxkl47BF wrote:

> just one more thing
> 
> posteo was mentioned as an alternative
> i have a posteo account i will drop in a few months
> their spam policy is to bounce it back to the sender
> the account own has no say

You have a link to a statement of this policy?

-- 
Brian.

[OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[Stefan Monnier]

> In general, the circumstances which would require one to use a tool like
> protonmail are not commonly observed in connection with a list like
> debian-user.

While protonmail might be used for such situations, in my experience
most protonmail users I've seen are just people that are sufficiently
technically aware to know that they should stay away from gmail and
friends and look for a quality email provider (posteo being another
popular provider in that space).

So, my own bias would rather tend to expect good behavior (good
questions and good answers) from participants posting from
protonmail ;-)


Stefan

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[fxkl47BF]

just one more thing

posteo was mentioned as an alternative
i have a posteo account i will drop in a few months
their spam policy is to bounce it back to the sender
the account own has no say

i also have a mailfence account i will drop
a while back i stopped getting mail from my bank
i investigated and found the bank mail was generating a false positive virus
i informed mailfence and they agreed it was probably the cause of my trouble
but they didn't bother to fix it
several months later they started passing mail from my bank

some times you have to kiss a lot of frogs

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[fxkl47BF]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, October 10th, 2021 at 9:31 AM, Stefan Monnier 
 wrote:

> > In general, the circumstances which would require one to use a tool like
> >
> > protonmail are not commonly observed in connection with a list like
> >
> > debian-user.
>
> While protonmail might be used for such situations, in my experience
>
> most protonmail users I've seen are just people that are sufficiently
>
> technically aware to know that they should stay away from gmail and
>
> friends and look for a quality email provider (posteo being another
>
> popular provider in that space).
>
> So, my own bias would rather tend to expect good behavior (good
>
> questions and good answers) from participants posting from
>
> protonmail ;-)
>
> Stefan

well put
you're a much better wordsmith than i

Re: mail service

[fxkl47BF]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, October 10th, 2021 at 9:30 AM, Reco  wrote:

> Hi.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 01:44:50PM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
>
> > but on another mailing list i used this same address
> >
> > i was banned
> >
> > the admin apologized and explained later my address looked suspicious
>
> Here they do not ban users based on e-mail domain alone.
>
> You have to do something worthy of the ban first :)
>
> Although you could've chosen more pronouceable alias. I mean, your
>
> current one looks like you've swapped your username and password. No
>
> offence meant, just in case.
>
> Reco

no offense taken
i use expect_mkpasswd to generate passwords
decades ago i got tired of trying to come up with user names
i just use expect_mkpasswd to make a short unique name
today everyone is trying to glean all of the personal info they can
i try not give out any more than is necessary

Re: mail service

[Reco]

Hi.

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 01:44:50PM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
> but on another mailing list i used this same address
> i was banned
> the admin apologized and explained later my address looked suspicious

Here they do not ban users based on e-mail domain alone.
You have to do something worthy of the ban first :)

Although you could've chosen more pronouceable alias. I mean, your
current one looks like you've swapped your username and password. No
offence meant, just in case.

Reco

Re: mail service

[fxkl47BF]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, October 10th, 2021 at 8:23 AM, Greg Wooledge  
wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 09:32:55AM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
>
> > in a different mailing list it was implied that if a person uses protonmail 
> > they must be up to no good
> >
> > i've used protonmail for about 6 months now and been satisfied
> >
> > what am i missing
>
> I suspect I know which mailing list you're talking about. If I'm right,
>
> the abuse to which you're referring is being caused by one person, who
>
> has switched email addresses and identities repeatedly over the course
>
> of a year. Their latest attempt at hiding their identity has been to use
>
> a series of different protonmail addresses.
>
> For those of us on the receiving end of that person's abuse, the fact that
>
> any message from a new person has protonmail in its message ID is just
>
> one indicator that the message may be from the abuser. We have to
>
> look at other things too, like the actual content of the message.
>
> As long as you're posting in good faith, nobody (as far as I know) is
>
> going to reject your messages only because of your email provider.

that is what a person would hope
but on another mailing list i used this same address
i was banned
the admin apologized and explained later my address looked suspicious

Re: mail service

[fxkl47BF]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, October 10th, 2021 at 8:16 AM, Roberto C. Sánchez 
 wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 01:09:03PM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
>
> > i understand and respect what you are saying
> >
> > i also reject it
> >
> > we have no way of knowing you are roberto
> >
> > following what you say it would make people feel warm and fuzzy if i called 
> > myself george washinton
> >
> > it's just judging a book by it's cover
> >
> > what kind of person does that
>
> Perception is reality.
>
> You are right that in general there does not exist a reliable means of
>
> verifying online identities. However, to appear in an online forum
>
> taking a form that appears substantially different from the bulkd of
>
> other participants in the forum will attract attention.
>
> To that end, depending on the threat model you are trying to address,
>
> appearing through a provider like protonmail has a different set of
>
> trade-offs from using a more well-known provider, not associated with
>
> total anonimity (like Gmail, Yahoo, etc.) and a pseudonym that more
>
> closely resembles a real name.
>
> If your goal is absolute and total anonimity while minimizing the
>
> likelihood that your true location/identity/etc. can be discovered, then
>
> protonmail is likely the way to go. However, that makes you "stick out"
>
> in a place like debian-user. If you wish to have a degree of anonimity
>
> while blending into the background, then a Gmail account using a
>
> pseudonym would probably attract far less notice.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>
> -
>
> Roberto C. Sánchez

once again i totally agree and disagree
gmail, yahoo, gmx, etc. state that they scan mail going through their service
today personal information is gold
and for anonymity, the safest place to hide a tree is in a forest
years ago i saw a show where the character said

spies make the best neighbors
they keep their lawns cut and always take in the trash cans
they do everything the perfect average person should do

Re: mail service

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 09:32:55AM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
> 
> in a different mailing list it was implied that if a person uses protonmail 
> they must be up to no good
> i've used protonmail for about 6 months now and been satisfied
> what am i missing

I suspect I know which mailing list you're talking about.  If I'm right,
the abuse to which you're referring is being caused by one person, who
has switched email addresses and identities repeatedly over the course
of a year.  Their latest attempt at hiding their identity has been to use
a series of different protonmail addresses.

For those of us on the receiving end of that person's abuse, the fact that
any message from a new person has protonmail in its message ID is just
*one* indicator that the message may be from the abuser.  We have to
look at other things too, like the actual content of the message.

As long as you're posting in good faith, nobody (as far as I know) is
going to reject your messages *only* because of your email provider.

Re: mail service

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 01:09:03PM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
> 
> i understand and respect what you are saying
> i also reject it
> we have no way of knowing you are roberto
> following what you say it would make people feel warm and fuzzy if i called 
> myself george washinton
> it's just judging a book by it's cover
> what kind of person does that
> 
Perception is reality.

You are right that in general there does not exist a reliable means of
verifying online identities.  However, to appear in an online forum
taking a form that appears substantially different from the bulkd of
other participants in the forum will attract attention.

To that end, depending on the threat model you are trying to address,
appearing through a provider like protonmail has a different set of
trade-offs from using a more well-known provider, not associated with
total anonimity (like Gmail, Yahoo, etc.) and a pseudonym that more
closely resembles a real name.

If your goal is absolute and total anonimity while minimizing the
likelihood that your true location/identity/etc. can be discovered, then
protonmail is likely the way to go.  However, that makes you "stick out"
in a place like debian-user.  If you wish to have a degree of anonimity
while blending into the background, then a Gmail account using a
pseudonym would probably attract far less notice.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: mail service

[fxkl47BF]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, October 10th, 2021 at 7:17 AM, Roberto C. Sánchez 
 wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 09:32:55AM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
>
> > in a different mailing list it was implied that if a person uses protonmail 
> > they must be up to no good
> >
> > i've used protonmail for about 6 months now and been satisfied
> >
> > what am i missing
>
> Services like protonmail have an important role in allowing
>
> communication from, to, and between persons who are under threat of
>
> persecution for some reason or another. E.g., political dissidents,
>
> whistleblowers, journalists, religious workers in certain countries,
>
> etc.
>
> In general, the circumstances which would require one to use a tool like
>
> protonmail are not commonly observed in connection with a list like
>
> debian-user. Since the history of the Internet is one of openness and
>
> collaboration (especially when it comes to newsgroups, from which lists
>
> like debian-user derive a heritage), to appear in a collaborative space
>
> without any way for the other participants to identify you is viewed
>
> with suspicion. Whether that is a fair or unfair bias is debatable.
>
> There is also ample evidence that very often, those who appear in
>
> technical fora under a cloak of anonimity do so for the purpose of
>
> disrupting, attacking, and so on, without risk to their real reputation.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>
> 
>
> Roberto C. Sánchez

i understand and respect what you are saying
i also reject it
we have no way of knowing you are roberto
following what you say it would make people feel warm and fuzzy if i called 
myself george washinton
it's just judging a book by it's cover
what kind of person does that

Re: mail service

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 09:32:55AM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
> 
> in a different mailing list it was implied that if a person uses protonmail 
> they must be up to no good
> i've used protonmail for about 6 months now and been satisfied
> what am i missing
> 

Services like protonmail have an important role in allowing
communication from, to, and between persons who are under threat of
persecution for some reason or another.  E.g., political dissidents,
whistleblowers, journalists, religious workers in certain countries,
etc.

In general, the circumstances which would require one to use a tool like
protonmail are not commonly observed in connection with a list like
debian-user.  Since the history of the Internet is one of openness and
collaboration (especially when it comes to newsgroups, from which lists
like debian-user derive a heritage), to appear in a collaborative space
without any way for the other participants to identify you is viewed
with suspicion.  Whether that is a fair or unfair bias is debatable.

There is also ample evidence that very often, those who appear in
technical fora under a cloak of anonimity do so for the purpose of
disrupting, attacking, and so on, without risk to their real reputation.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

mail service

[fxkl47BF]

in a different mailing list it was implied that if a person uses protonmail 
they must be up to no good
i've used protonmail for about 6 months now and been satisfied
what am i missing

<> Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[mark]

On Monday, November 26, 2018 9:37:21 AM EST Mark Neidorff wrote:
> 
> It is time for me to give the static IP back and stop being my own e-mail
> service.  I'm moving from my static IP to Verizon FIOS, but I don't think
> that really matters.
> 
> If you know of an e-mail service that allows me  POP3 and SMTP connections,
> would you please post it in a reply.

Thank you all for your suggestions.  I found that Ionos (used to be 1&1 for 
those with long 
memories) gives me the best bang for the buck.  The accept mail for my domain 
(so I don't 
have to resubscribe to everything), provide pop3 and imap access, have a 2Gb 
limit on the 
contents of the mailbox (not on traffic) for $1 per month.  For $2 per month, 
they allow up 
to 20 user names under the same domain.  More storage is available for more 
money.  
Their help was excellent, and the process of getting set up was easy.  

Certainly they are not the only company to provide this service, but they suit 
my needs.  

Thanks to everyone,
Mark

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[David Wright]

On Fri 07 Dec 2018 at 10:08:35 (+), Joe wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 23:05:24 -0500 Celejar  wrote:
> > On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 08:59:25 + Ben Oliver  wrote:
> > > On 18-11-26 21:12:19, Celejar wrote:
> > > >On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 09:37:21 -0500 Mark Neidorff  
> > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > >...
> > > >  
> > > >> Now, I don't like the webmail interfaces and the limited storage
> > > >> for old  
> > > >
> > > >Limited storage? Who - big or small player - offers unlimited
> > > >storage for old emails?
> > > >  
> > > 
> > > My suggestion [0] (a 'small' player) does!
> > > 
> > > [0] https://www.migadu.com/  
> > 
> > Very interesting, thanks. I notice that they say "Storage is not your
> > problem, it is ours." [0] We trust you will not abuse it." What does
> > "abuse" mean in this context? That it shouldn't be used for file
> > storage?
> > 
> > [0] https://www.migadu.com/en/benefits.html#anchor_storage
> 
> Some people keep a) all their old email, which is a perfectly
> reasonable thing to do, and b) leave all the attachments in, which is
> also perfectly reasonable to do on your own storage.
> 
> I used to deal with a client who did this and who received a *lot* of
> attachments. I had to fix his broken [Exchange] mailbox a couple of
> times, and it was *enormous*. Exchange mailboxes seem to take an amount
> of time to fix that is an exponential function of their size, they are
> basically MS Access databases.

OTOH they may feel that uploading all your backups etc is unreasonable,
perhaps including workarounds like mailing them to yourself.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Joe]

On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 23:05:24 -0500
Celejar  wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 08:59:25 +
> Ben Oliver  wrote:
> 
> > On 18-11-26 21:12:19, Celejar wrote:  
> > >On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 09:37:21 -0500
> > >Mark Neidorff  wrote:
> > >
> > >...
> > >  
> > >> Now, I don't like the webmail interfaces and the limited storage
> > >> for old  
> > >
> > >Limited storage? Who - big or small player - offers unlimited
> > >storage for old emails?
> > >  
> > 
> > My suggestion [0] (a 'small' player) does!
> > 
> > [0] https://www.migadu.com/  
> 
> Very interesting, thanks. I notice that they say "Storage is not your
> problem, it is ours." [0] We trust you will not abuse it." What does
> "abuse" mean in this context? That it shouldn't be used for file
> storage?
> 
> [0] https://www.migadu.com/en/benefits.html#anchor_storage

Some people keep a) all their old email, which is a perfectly
reasonable thing to do, and b) leave all the attachments in, which is
also perfectly reasonable to do on your own storage.

I used to deal with a client who did this and who received a *lot* of
attachments. I had to fix his broken [Exchange] mailbox a couple of
times, and it was *enormous*. Exchange mailboxes seem to take an amount
of time to fix that is an exponential function of their size, they are
basically MS Access databases.

-- 
Joe

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Celejar]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 08:59:25 +
Ben Oliver  wrote:

> On 18-11-26 21:12:19, Celejar wrote:
> >On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 09:37:21 -0500
> >Mark Neidorff  wrote:
> >
> >...
> >
> >> Now, I don't like the webmail interfaces and the limited storage for old
> >
> >Limited storage? Who - big or small player - offers unlimited storage
> >for old emails?
> >
> 
> My suggestion [0] (a 'small' player) does!
> 
> [0] https://www.migadu.com/

Very interesting, thanks. I notice that they say "Storage is not your
problem, it is ours." [0] We trust you will not abuse it." What does
"abuse" mean in this context? That it shouldn't be used for file
storage?

[0] https://www.migadu.com/en/benefits.html#anchor_storage

Celejar

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2018-11-26 hackte Brian in die Tasten:
> On Mon 26 Nov 2018 at 09:37:21 -0500, Mark Neidorff wrote:
> gmail and yahoo. :)

He asked for a "friendly" EMail Service not a crappy free one

Depending on his traffic, he could get an account under my domain
 which support IMAP/SMTP plus Squirrelmail.


-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 27 November 2018 09:49:22 John Hasler wrote:

[...]

> You've reinvented parts of Mailagent and Exim.

With something I am familiar with and doesn't need a 200 page help file. 
Similar to skinning cats, first make sure its truly dead. ;-)

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Celejar]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 15:04:48 +1100
Erik Christiansen  wrote:

> On 26.11.18 21:12, Celejar wrote:
> > On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 09:37:21 -0500
> > Mark Neidorff  wrote:
> > > Now, I don't like the webmail interfaces and the limited storage for old 
> > 
> > Limited storage? Who - big or small player - offers unlimited storage
> > for old emails?
> 
> There are various values for old and limited, in reality. When I'm out
> of town for a fortnight, there's usually 1500 to 2k emails piled up on
> the ISP's mailhost. Fortunately only a small subset of them are over 1
> MB in size.
> 
> It is fortunately rare for ISPs to block multi-megabyte emails now that
> we've left the old millennium behind, as I'm in the process of building,
> and local authorities, building surveyors, fire authorities, etc.,
> mostly issue their documents by email now.
> 
> Still, a few hundred MB usually does it for the fortnight, and the
> longer absence over the new year is an email drought, so size would be
> similar.
> 
> Those who leave read mail on the ISP's mailhost, due to accessing from
> multiple client hosts, are at greater risk of exceeding their quota, and
> would naturally look for some extra, I figure.

Understood. But the big players - Gmail, Yahoo - are probably the ones
offering the largest amount of storage, whether you're accessing the
mail via POP3 / IMAP or the webmail interface.

Celejar

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[John Hasler]

Gene writes:
> No for everything that clamav gives a clean bill of health, it tells
> kmail to go get the mail when a mailfile in /var/mail is closed after
> procmail writes it there. Kmail looks at the headers and if spamd said
> it was spam, sorts it to the spam folder. procmail takes care of the
> viri so kmail never sees it at all.

> If not spam, it gets sorted into the appropriate mail folder by kmail.
> All triggered by inotifywait exiting with the name of the file, bash
> then takes the correct action and restarts inotifywait, all in a
> millisecobd or so.  That bash script I called mailwatcher.

You've reinvented parts of Mailagent and Exim.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 27 November 2018 08:41:32 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Monday, November 26, 2018 09:51:49 PM Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I even wrote a script to couple kmail so the incoming mail only
> > exists few a few milliseconds in /var/mail.
>
> I don't understand -- what is your script doing?  Is it doing it only
> for spam?

No for everything that clamav gives a clean bill of health, it tells 
kmail to go get the mail when a mailfile in /var/mail is closed after 
procmail writes it there. Kmail looks at the headers and if spamd said 
it was spam, sorts it to the spam folder. procmail takes care of the 
viri so kmail never sees it at all.

If not spam, it gets sorted into the appropriate mail folder by kmail. 
All triggered by inotifywait exiting with the name of the file, bash 
then takes the correct action and restarts inotifywait, all in a 
millisecobd or so.  That bash script I called mailwatcher. An older 
version that might need tweaking for you system & names is on my web 
page in the sig. Be my guest.
>
> > I'm a lazy cuss, let the computer
> > handle all that stuff, that is what I built it for, to work FOR me.
> > And its been very happy being my slave.



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[rhkramer]

On Monday, November 26, 2018 09:51:49 PM Gene Heskett wrote:
> I even wrote a script to couple kmail so the incoming mail only exists
> few a few milliseconds in /var/mail. 

I don't understand -- what is your script doing?  Is it doing it only for 
spam?




> I'm a lazy cuss, let the computer
> handle all that stuff, that is what I built it for, to work FOR me. And
> its been very happy being my slave.

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Ben Oliver]

On 18-11-26 21:12:19, Celejar wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 09:37:21 -0500
Mark Neidorff  wrote:

...


Now, I don't like the webmail interfaces and the limited storage for old


Limited storage? Who - big or small player - offers unlimited storage
for old emails?



My suggestion [0] (a 'small' player) does!

[0] https://www.migadu.com/


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 26 November 2018 23:04:48 Erik Christiansen wrote:

> On 26.11.18 21:12, Celejar wrote:
> > On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 09:37:21 -0500
> >
> > Mark Neidorff  wrote:
> > > Now, I don't like the webmail interfaces and the limited storage
> > > for old
> >
> > Limited storage? Who - big or small player - offers unlimited
> > storage for old emails?
>
> There are various values for old and limited, in reality. When I'm out
> of town for a fortnight, there's usually 1500 to 2k emails piled up on
> the ISP's mailhost. Fortunately only a small subset of them are over 1
> MB in size.
>
> It is fortunately rare for ISPs to block multi-megabyte emails now
> that we've left the old millennium behind, as I'm in the process of
> building, and local authorities, building surveyors, fire authorities,
> etc., mostly issue their documents by email now.
>
> Still, a few hundred MB usually does it for the fortnight, and the
> longer absence over the new year is an email drought, so size would be
> similar.
>
> Those who leave read mail on the ISP's mailhost, due to accessing from
> multiple client hosts, are at greater risk of exceeding their quota,
> and would naturally look for some extra, I figure.
>
> Erik

Thats why I store my old mail on my own machine. I just checked my inbox, 
and the oldest email there that is actually dated, some don't have dates, 
is from 12/11/01.

As machines get replaced, or hard drives get full or whatever and get 
replaced, that email corpus gets copied to the new machine or drive, 
so I have a good email history right at my fingertips. 

It can be at times a valuable resource.

Speaking of old hard drives, one of the first 1T drives in this machine is
according to smartctl:

5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033  100  100  036  Pre-fail  Always - 25
9 Power_On_Hours  0x0032  012  012  000  Old_age   Always - 77192

That drive worried me with that re-allocated count at about 5k hours, 
the first time I looked at it with the then brand new smartctl.  So
I trolled thru the Seagate site and found an iso file with new firmware
for it, and installed it on the drive by rebooting to that iso on a CD.

That upped its read/write speed by about 50%, to over 130 meg/second, 
and didn't lose a single bit.

That drive now has 77192 hours on it. Thats now 8.80584074835 years of 
spinning essentially 24/7/365.25. And it is not giving any indication 
its anywhere near the end of its life. In the life of some drives I've 
had, thats equ to an eon or so.

Does anyone have a drive with more hours on it?



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Erik Christiansen]

On 26.11.18 21:12, Celejar wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 09:37:21 -0500
> Mark Neidorff  wrote:
> > Now, I don't like the webmail interfaces and the limited storage for old 
> 
> Limited storage? Who - big or small player - offers unlimited storage
> for old emails?

There are various values for old and limited, in reality. When I'm out
of town for a fortnight, there's usually 1500 to 2k emails piled up on
the ISP's mailhost. Fortunately only a small subset of them are over 1
MB in size.

It is fortunately rare for ISPs to block multi-megabyte emails now that
we've left the old millennium behind, as I'm in the process of building,
and local authorities, building surveyors, fire authorities, etc.,
mostly issue their documents by email now.

Still, a few hundred MB usually does it for the fortnight, and the
longer absence over the new year is an email drought, so size would be
similar.

Those who leave read mail on the ISP's mailhost, due to accessing from
multiple client hosts, are at greater risk of exceeding their quota, and
would naturally look for some extra, I figure.

Erik

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Celejar]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 09:37:21 -0500
Mark Neidorff  wrote:

...

> Now, I don't like the webmail interfaces and the limited storage for old 

Limited storage? Who - big or small player - offers unlimited storage
for old emails?

> emails that the big players (gmail, yahoo,etc) use.  I like to download and 
> process the email locally using either kmail or thunderbird (doesn't matter 
> which to me.  I have experience with both.)
> 
> If you know of an e-mail service that allows me  POP3 and SMTP connections, 
> would you please post it in a reply.

My impression is that pretty much any serious email provider - free or
paid - offers POP3 and SMTP access. Gmail, Yahoo, GMX, and Zoho all do.

I use the latter two for most of my serious mail.

Celejar

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 26 November 2018 21:22:35 Erik Christiansen wrote:

> On 26.11.18 17:13, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Get on the horn and ask your isp if they run a mailserver. Mine
> > does, and I use it, but when I first started, I had to call their
> > network guy and have him whitelist all the mailing lists I an on.
>
> Here, down under, that's the norm - I've never heard of an ISP which
> so despises the 'S' that there's no mail. We generally have a choice
> of IMAP or POP3. (I have fetchmail set to use the latter.)
>
> > Other than that, it just works, and I'm only getting perhaps .01% of
> > the spam I was getting thru a qmail server I used previously as an
> > ex employee.
>
> Ditto. I've had to use my ISP's GUI utility to relax their spam
> filtering, else I miss out on even notices of specials from the
> vendors I deal with. The few unwanted which then also sneak in are
> just diverted with an additional procmail recipe, as that utility is
> already in place for distributing list mail to individual mailboxes.
> (Saves learning yet another app when not really needed.)
>
> Erik

Theres an echo in here, sounds exactly like what I've been doing for the 
last 20+ years. Very very little work to keep track of around 40 mailing 
lists I'm on, an eclectic list some have called it.

I even wrote a script to couple kmail so the incoming mail only exists 
few a few milliseconds in /var/mail. I'm a lazy cuss, let the computer 
handle all that stuff, that is what I built it for, to work FOR me. And 
its been very happy being my slave.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[John Hasler]

debian-user writes:
> Here, down under, that's the norm - I've never heard of an ISP which
> so despises the 'S' that there's no mail. We generally have a choice
> of IMAP or POP3. (I have fetchmail set to use the latter.)

They just about always offer email service but it can be pretty
bad. You're lucky to have a network guy you can actually communicate
with.

> I've had to use my ISP's GUI utility to relax their spam filtering,
> else I miss out on even notices of specials from the vendors I deal
> with.

I use Spamassassin.  It learns what *I* consider spam.  I also use
Mailagent to (among other things) send everything from certain domains
to the bit bucket.  Newsguy takes care of greylisting, of course.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Erik Christiansen]

On 26.11.18 17:13, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Get on the horn and ask your isp if they run a mailserver. Mine does, and 
> I use it, but when I first started, I had to call their network guy and 
> have him whitelist all the mailing lists I an on.

Here, down under, that's the norm - I've never heard of an ISP which so
despises the 'S' that there's no mail. We generally have a choice of
IMAP or POP3. (I have fetchmail set to use the latter.)

> Other than that, it just works, and I'm only getting perhaps .01% of the 
> spam I was getting thru a qmail server I used previously as an ex 
> employee.

Ditto. I've had to use my ISP's GUI utility to relax their spam
filtering, else I miss out on even notices of specials from the vendors
I deal with. The few unwanted which then also sneak in are just diverted
with an additional procmail recipe, as that utility is already in place
for distributing list mail to individual mailboxes. (Saves learning
yet another app when not really needed.)

Erik

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 26 November 2018 09:50:09 Brian wrote:

> On Mon 26 Nov 2018 at 09:37:21 -0500, Mark Neidorff wrote:
> > (I know this is not Debian specific, but I think it is useful info
> > for the members of the list.)
> >
> > Admittedly, I'm spoiled.  I've had a static IP and my own domain for
> > nearly 15 years.  I set up a mailserver which has run without
> > missing a beat in all that time.
> >
> > It is time for me to give the static IP back and stop being my own
> > e-mail service.  I'm moving from my static IP to Verizon FIOS, but I
> > don't think that really matters.
> >
> > Now, I don't like the webmail interfaces and the limited storage for
> > old emails that the big players (gmail, yahoo,etc) use.  I like to
> > download and process the email locally using either kmail or
> > thunderbird (doesn't matter which to me.  I have experience with
> > both.)
> >
> > If you know of an e-mail service that allows me  POP3 and SMTP
> > connections, would you please post it in a reply.
> >
> > Thank you for any suggestions,
>
> gmail and yahoo. :)

Both of which ignore tfc's that don't suit their business models, with a 
lot of yahoo mail originating in their webmail servers being classified 
as spam. 

Gmail has such an aggressive duplication preventer that you'll never see 
your own posts echo'd back to you as assurance your post actually made 
it to the mailing list.

Get on the horn and ask your isp if they run a mailserver. Mine does, and 
I use it, but when I first started, I had to call their network guy and 
have him whitelist all the mailing lists I an on. That was about 3 years 
ago and I've not had to repeat it. The only problem is that its also an 
imap server, and they've disabled fetchmails ability to delete a 
downloaded via pop3 message, so I use FF to log into it, nominally 
daily, and clean house. About 5 minutes.

Other than that, it just works, and I'm only getting perhaps .01% of the 
spam I was getting thru a qmail server I used previously as an ex 
employee. So I'm tickled pink except for having to do the housekeeping 
with firefox.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Joe]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 10:40:33 -0600
John Hasler  wrote:

> Joe writes:
> > Are you hanging on to your domain name(s)? Many domain hosts also
> > offer limited email facilities, which is no problem if you're
> > downloading regularly.  
> 
> Any decent registry will forward mail addressed to your domain to the
> address you specify.  I have Gandi forward mail addressed to my
> domains to my Newsguy address.  You don't need to have a Web site.

Yes, they all do that, but some provide small mailboxes also. I've
never run  a public web site (not on my own hardware, anyway) but I've
hired domain names for twenty years.

-- 
Joe

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[John Hasler]

Joe writes:
> Are you hanging on to your domain name(s)? Many domain hosts also
> offer limited email facilities, which is no problem if you're
> downloading regularly.

Any decent registry will forward mail addressed to your domain to the
address you specify.  I have Gandi forward mail addressed to my domains
to my Newsguy address.  You don't need to have a Web site.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[John Cunningham]

I second Fastmail. Tuffmail is also worth a look.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 11:23 AM John Hasler  wrote:

> Mark writes:
> > If you know of an e-mail service that allows me  POP3 and SMTP
> connections,
> > would you please post it in a reply.
>
> Newsguy.com
>
> I've been using them for more than ten years with no problems.  They
> have spam filtering which you can turn off.  They also have a Webmail
> interface but you don't have to use it.  I pay them an annual fee so I
> am a customer, not a set of "eyeballs" to be marketed.
>
> I download my mail with Fetchmail which hands it off to Exim for local
> delivery ("local" meaning on this machine).  I selected "smarthost" when
> installing Exim so it connects to Newsguy for all outgoing mail (and
> accepts no incoming connections).  This is a standard Debian
> configuration.
>
> Kmail and Thuderbird will work fine with Newsguy, of course.
> --
> John Hasler
> jhas...@newsguy.com
> Elmwood, WI USA
>
> --
John L. Cunningham

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 09:55:17AM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2018-11-26 at 09:37, Mark Neidorff wrote:
> > If you know of an e-mail service that allows me  POP3 and SMTP
> > connections, would you please post it in a reply.
> 
> I use Fastmail, which supported both (as well as IMAP) last time I
> checked, and I've been a quite satisfied customer of theirs - with
> Thunderbird as my E-mail client - for quite some years now.

I would second Fastmail. I run my own email but doing so for family
and friends got too complicated so I've slowly been moving them to
Fastmail where they didn't want to sort it out themselves.
Admittedly all of them use the web interface, but if Fastmail has
POP and IMAP then I trust it to be as good as the rest of their
setup.

But OP says they want SMTP - does that mean relaying out through the
provider, or having the provider relay inbound email to your
servers? I'm not aware that Fastmail does that.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[John Hasler]

Mark writes:
> If you know of an e-mail service that allows me  POP3 and SMTP connections, 
> would you please post it in a reply.

Newsguy.com

I've been using them for more than ten years with no problems.  They
have spam filtering which you can turn off.  They also have a Webmail
interface but you don't have to use it.  I pay them an annual fee so I
am a customer, not a set of "eyeballs" to be marketed.

I download my mail with Fetchmail which hands it off to Exim for local
delivery ("local" meaning on this machine).  I selected "smarthost" when
installing Exim so it connects to Newsguy for all outgoing mail (and
accepts no incoming connections).  This is a standard Debian
configuration.

Kmail and Thuderbird will work fine with Newsguy, of course.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Brian]

On Mon 26 Nov 2018 at 09:37:21 -0500, Mark Neidorff wrote:

> (I know this is not Debian specific, but I think it is useful info for the 
> members of the list.)
> 
> Admittedly, I'm spoiled.  I've had a static IP and my own domain for nearly 
> 15 
> years.  I set up a mailserver which has run without missing a beat in all 
> that 
> time.
> 
> It is time for me to give the static IP back and stop being my own e-mail 
> service.  I'm moving from my static IP to Verizon FIOS, but I don't think 
> that 
> really matters.
> 
> Now, I don't like the webmail interfaces and the limited storage for old 
> emails that the big players (gmail, yahoo,etc) use.  I like to download and 
> process the email locally using either kmail or thunderbird (doesn't matter 
> which to me.  I have experience with both.)
> 
> If you know of an e-mail service that allows me  POP3 and SMTP connections, 
> would you please post it in a reply.
> 
> Thank you for any suggestions,

gmail and yahoo. :)

-- 
Brian.

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Joe]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 09:37:21 -0500
Mark Neidorff  wrote:


> If you know of an e-mail service that allows me  POP3 and SMTP
> connections, would you please post it in a reply.
> 

I thought that even the big boys allowed POP or IMAP downloading, I'm
pretty sure you can do it with gmail, if you can tolerate it. They'll
all read your emails.

Are you hanging on to your domain name(s)? Many domain hosts also offer
limited email facilities, which is no problem if you're downloading
regularly.

-- 
Joe

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[The Wanderer]

On 2018-11-26 at 09:37, Mark Neidorff wrote:

> (I know this is not Debian specific, but I think it is useful info
> for the members of the list.)
> 
> Admittedly, I'm spoiled.  I've had a static IP and my own domain for
> nearly 15 years.  I set up a mailserver which has run without missing
> a beat in all that time.
> 
> It is time for me to give the static IP back and stop being my own
> e-mail service.  I'm moving from my static IP to Verizon FIOS, but I
> don't think that really matters.
> 
> Now, I don't like the webmail interfaces and the limited storage for
> old emails that the big players (gmail, yahoo,etc) use.  I like to
> download and process the email locally using either kmail or
> thunderbird (doesn't matter which to me.  I have experience with
> both.)
> 
> If you know of an e-mail service that allows me  POP3 and SMTP
> connections, would you please post it in a reply.

I use Fastmail, which supported both (as well as IMAP) last time I
checked, and I've been a quite satisfied customer of theirs - with
Thunderbird as my E-mail client - for quite some years now.

It's not a *free* mail service, but I'd be surprised if you found any
free service that fits the criteria you specify.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Ben Oliver]

On 18-11-26 09:37:21, Mark Neidorff wrote:
If you know of an e-mail service that allows me  POP3 and SMTP 
connections would you please post it in a reply.


I recommend and use https://www.migadu.com/

They do have a webmail but they focus mainly on providing a simple email 
service. They have good docs on getting DNS set up, and a pretty simple 
management interface for handling accounts etc.


Been with them for 1 year now and I'm very happy with it.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Looking for a "friendly" e-mail service

[Mark Neidorff]

(I know this is not Debian specific, but I think it is useful info for the 
members of the list.)

Admittedly, I'm spoiled.  I've had a static IP and my own domain for nearly 15 
years.  I set up a mailserver which has run without missing a beat in all that 
time.

It is time for me to give the static IP back and stop being my own e-mail 
service.  I'm moving from my static IP to Verizon FIOS, but I don't think that 
really matters.

Now, I don't like the webmail interfaces and the limited storage for old 
emails that the big players (gmail, yahoo,etc) use.  I like to download and 
process the email locally using either kmail or thunderbird (doesn't matter 
which to me.  I have experience with both.)

If you know of an e-mail service that allows me  POP3 and SMTP connections, 
would you please post it in a reply.

Thank you for any suggestions,

Mark
-- 
Why are games that any fool can play the best sellers?

Re: mua and mail service provider statistics

[Chris Davies]

Rob Owens row...@ptd.net wrote:
 I think Mutt is awesome for handling mailing lists.  I always view in
 thread mode, and I use Ctrl-d to delete entire threads that don't
 interest me.  I can delete the entire thread in the time it takes me to
 read the subject line.

I've always tended to treat mailing lists as newsgroups. So I drop them
into my local news subsystem and read them with tin. Thread killing is
permanent (i.e. if you kill a thread then it stays dead no matter how
many new messages arrive for it). I suspect that this approach and mutt
give similar results.

Chris


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/63s498xmrp@news.roaima.co.uk

Re: mua and mail service provider statistics

[Abhishek Dasgupta]

Chris Davies wrote:
 Rob Owens row...@ptd.net wrote:
  I think Mutt is awesome for handling mailing lists.  I always view in
  thread mode, and I use Ctrl-d to delete entire threads that don't
  interest me.  I can delete the entire thread in the time it takes me to
  read the subject line.
 
 I've always tended to treat mailing lists as newsgroups. So I drop them
 into my local news subsystem and read them with tin. Thread killing is
 permanent (i.e. if you kill a thread then it stays dead no matter how
 many new messages arrive for it). I suspect that this approach and mutt
 give similar results.
 

Actually not. I use mutt and there is no way to permanently kill a
thread.

-- 
Abhishek


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110503154054.ga2...@squirrel.abhidg.net

Re: mua and mail service provider statistics

[Chen Wei]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 09:22:06AM -0500, Kumar Appaiah wrote:
 
 Thanks for doing this.
u are welcome :)

 
 The trouble with GMail is that it is suboptimal when it comes to a
 couple of things when compared to Mutt, _for me_:
 
 - It's threading is linear, which is difficult to follow for long and
   complex evolving threads.
 - I prefer console goodness over a web based approach.
 - GMail encourages top posting.
 
 But I see the merit in using GMail; it's simple, easy and powerful to
 use. Just that it's not for me.
 
 Kumar
 -- 
once upon a time hotmail was so hot and yahoo mail was so cool...

-- 
Chen Wei


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110501115559.GB16834@Tungsten.DarkStar

mua and mail service provider statistics

[Chen Wei]

hi list,

as a first time debian-user subscriber, I feel been buried alive by
incoming emails, though I heard there are some monster maillists, 
linux kernel maillist for example, are carrying even heavier traffic.
Wondering how to manage so many emails, out of curiosity, I did a 
statistics on choice of mail client and email service, based on 1494
messages received since subscribed to this list. Here is what I found.

TOP20
MUA | email provider
|-
Gmail  83 25.7% | gmail.com 110 34.1% | 
Mozilla75 23.2% | debian.org  8  2.5% | 
Mutt   54 16.7% | gmx.de  4  1.2% | 
Unknown20  6.2% | yahoo.com   3  0.9% | 
KMail  15  4.6% | web.de  3  0.9% | 
Gnus   11  3.4% | cox.net 3  0.9% | 
Evolution  11  3.4% | comcast.net 3  0.9% | 
Claws  11  3.4% | well-adjusted.de2  0.6% | 
Sylpheed6  1.9% | pobox.com   2  0.6% | 
Apple   3  0.9% | karall-edv.at   2  0.6% | 
Zimbra  2  0.6% | googlemail.com  2  0.6% | 
YahooMailRC 2  0.6% | gmx.net 2  0.6% | 
YahooMailClassic2  0.6% | free.fr 2  0.6% | 
Pan 2  0.6% | daniel-gr-andersson.com 2  0.6% | 
MessagingEngine.com 2  0.6% | arcor.de2  0.6% | 
Loom2  0.6% | zoho.com1  0.3% | 
Alpine  2  0.6% | yxit.co.uk  1  0.3% | 
tin 1  0.3% | yahoo.com.hk1  0.3% | 
slrn1  0.3% | yahoo.co.in 1  0.3% | 
netcat  1  0.3% | ya.ru   1  0.3% | 

Total Messages: 1494
Total Users: 323

The short story is, GMAIL prevail.



-- 
Chen Wei
#!/usr/bin/env python
# to count what kind of mail client folks are using in maillist
import os
import re

def guess_mua(received_from):
pattern = {'google.com':'Gmail', 'blackberry':'Blackberry',
   'yahoo.com':'Yahoo', 'nabble.com':'Nabble'}
mua = None
for key in pattern:
if key in received_from:
mua = pattern[key]
break
if not mua:
mua = 'Unknown'
return mua

mailfiles = os.walk('/home/wei/.Maildir/Debian-User')

maildir_files = []
for mail in mailfiles:
dirpath = mail[0]
for f in mail[2]:
maildir_files.append(os.path.join(dirpath, f))

mailstat = {}
for m in maildir_files:
content = open(m)
mua = None
sender = None
for line in content:
if line.startswith('From:'):
address = re.findall('[^\s]+@[^\s]+', line)
if address:
sender = address[0]
else:
sender = line.rstrip()[5:] # string after 'From: '

for agent_header in ('User-Agent:', 'X-Mailer:' , 'X-Newsreader:'):
if line.startswith(agent_header):
mua = line.rstrip().split(:)[1].split()[0].split('/')[0]
if 'Thunderbird' in mua:
mua = 'Mozilla'
break
if sender:
if mua:
break
if line.startswith('Received: from'):
received_from = line
if not mua:
mua = guess_mua(received_from)
mailstat[sender] = mua
content.close()


def sort_count(input_list):
'''given a list, return a 2D list sorted by item count'''
count = {}
for mua in input_list:
if count.has_key(mua):
count[mua] += 1
else:
count[mua] = 1
count_sort = []
for mua in count:
count_sort.append((count[mua], mua))
count_sort.sort(reverse=True)
return count_sort

domains = []
for sender in mailstat:
try:
domains.append(sender.split('@')[1])
except Exception:
pass

mua_statis = sort_count(mailstat.values())
mail_provider = sort_count(domains)

# pretty print
def line_gen(item, total):
line = '{0:25} {1:3} {2:5} | '.format(item[1], str(item[0]),
  '{0:.1%}'.format(item[0] / float(total)))
return line


total_user = len(mailstat)
for x in range(20):
line = line_gen(mua_statis[x], total_user)
line += line_gen(mail_provider[x], total_user)
print line


def sum_counted_list(mylist):
count = 0
for item in mylist:
count += item[0]
return count

print '\nTotal Users: ' + str(total_user)

Re: mua and mail service provider statistics

[Lisi]

On Wednesday 13 April 2011 14:05:43 Chen Wei wrote:
 out of curiosity, I did a
 statistics on choice of mail client and email service, based on 1494
 messages received since subscribed to this list. Here is what I found.

 TOP20
 MUA | email provider
 |-
 Gmail  83 25.7% | gmail.com 110 34.1% |
 Mozilla75 23.2% | debian.org  8  2.5% |
 Mutt   54 16.7% | gmx.de  4  1.2% |
 Unknown20  6.2% | yahoo.com   3  0.9% |
 KMail  15  4.6% | web.de  3  0.9% |
[snip]
 Total Messages: 1494
 Total Users: 323

 The short story is, GMAIL prevail.

I hope that I am down against KMail, and not GMail. ;-)

Lisi


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201104131427.37074.lisi.re...@gmail.com

Re: mua and mail service provider statistics

[Slicky Johnson]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 21:05:43 +0800
Chen Wei weichen...@aol.com wrote:

 hi list,
 
 as a first time debian-user subscriber, I feel been buried alive by
 incoming emails, though I heard there are some monster maillists, 
 linux kernel maillist for example, are carrying even heavier traffic.
 Wondering how to manage so many emails, out of curiosity, I did a 
 statistics on choice of mail client and email service, based on 1494
 messages received since subscribed to this list. Here is what I found.
 

I simply mark threads ignored and I don't seen anymore mails regarding
that topic. I currently use claws-mail, and I see you're using mutt.
If I remember correctly you should easily be able to mark a thread as
ignored. That will greatly reduce the number of mails, you'll only see
new threads.




-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110413093813.7634f757@t61.debian-linux

Re: mua and mail service provider statistics

[Kumar Appaiah]

Dear Chen,

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 09:05:43PM +0800, Chen Wei wrote:
 as a first time debian-user subscriber, I feel been buried alive by
 incoming emails, though I heard there are some monster maillists, 
 linux kernel maillist for example, are carrying even heavier traffic.
 Wondering how to manage so many emails, out of curiosity, I did a 
 statistics on choice of mail client and email service, based on 1494
 messages received since subscribed to this list. Here is what I found.

Thanks for doing this.

 The short story is, GMAIL prevail.

The trouble with GMail is that it is suboptimal when it comes to a
couple of things when compared to Mutt, _for me_:

- It's threading is linear, which is difficult to follow for long and
  complex evolving threads.
- I prefer console goodness over a web based approach.
- GMail encourages top posting.

But I see the merit in using GMail; it's simple, easy and powerful to
use. Just that it's not for me.

Kumar
-- 
No, that's wrong too.  Now there's a race condition between the rm and
the mv.  Hmm, I need more coffee.
-- Guy Maor on Debian Bug#25228


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
http://lists.debian.org/20110413142206.gc6...@bluemoon.alumni.iitm.ac.in

Re: mua and mail service provider statistics

[Jochen Schulz]

Slicky Johnson:
 
 I simply mark threads ignored and I don't seen anymore mails regarding
 that topic. I currently use claws-mail, and I see you're using mutt.
 If I remember correctly you should easily be able to mark a thread as
 ignored.

Unfortunately, this isn't the case. You can mark (sub-)threads as read,
but after that mutt will happily present new mails in the same thread to
you.

J.
-- 
I wish I looked more like a successful person even though I'm a loser.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: mua and mail service provider statistics

[Rob Owens]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 09:05:43PM +0800, Chen Wei wrote:
 hi list,
 
 as a first time debian-user subscriber, I feel been buried alive by
 incoming emails, though I heard there are some monster maillists, 
 linux kernel maillist for example, are carrying even heavier traffic.
 Wondering how to manage so many emails, out of curiosity, I did a 
 statistics on choice of mail client and email service, based on 1494
 messages received since subscribed to this list. Here is what I found.
 
I think Mutt is awesome for handling mailing lists.  I always view in
thread mode, and I use Ctrl-d to delete entire threads that don't
interest me.  I can delete the entire thread in the time it takes me to
read the subject line.

-Rob


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110414002927.gd25...@aurora.owens.net

Re: Re: Authentication unsuccessful relaying from Postfix to Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service

[Clive Standbridge]

(I'm sending this from a different account after several previous
attempts to reply vanished).

  The TLS part seems to be sorted now (see my reply to Sven). But
 the
  authentication still fails.

 Then, put the full Postfix log again so we can check where (and
 why)
 it stops now :-)

Ahem, good point.

The attachments contain the lines written to /var/log/auth.log and
/var/log/mail.log when the attempt to mail via NEWSERVER:587 failed,
also my /etc/postfix/main.cf (without comments).


-- 
Cheers,
Clive
/var/log/auth.log:
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: NTLM client step 1
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: NTLM client step 2
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: server flags: ff810205
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: server domain: NEWSERVER-NTDOMAIN
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: calculating NT response
/var/log/mail.log:
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/pickup[13718]: 3BB483982: uid=1000 
from=MY-EMAIL-ADDRESS
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/cleanup[13761]: 3BB483982: 
resent-message-id=20100510115935.gf3...@my-mailname
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/cleanup[13761]: 3BB483982: 
message-id=20100509200545.ga3...@my-mailname
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/qmgr[13719]: 3BB483982: from=MY-EMAIL-ADDRESS, 
size=855, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: initializing the client-side TLS 
engine
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/tlsmgr[13764]: open smtp TLS cache 
btree:/var/lib/postfix/smtp_scache
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/tlsmgr[13764]: tlsmgr_cache_run_event: start TLS 
smtp session cache cleanup
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: setting up TLS connection to 
NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: 
TLS cipher list ALL:+RC4:@STRENGTH
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: looking for session 
smtp:NEWSERVER-IPADDR:587:NEWSERVER-OTHERNAMEp=0c=ALL:+RC4:@STRENGTH in smtp 
cache
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/tlsmgr[13764]: lookup smtp session 
id=smtp:NEWSERVER-IPADDR:587:NEWSERVER-OTHERNAMEp=0c=ALL:+RC4:@STRENGTH
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: SSL_connect:before/connect 
initialization
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: SSL_connect:SSLv2/v3 write client 
hello A
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: SSL_connect:SSLv3 read server hello 
A
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: 
certificate verification depth=3 verify=1 subject=/L=ValiCert Validation 
Network/O=ValiCert, Inc./OU=ValiCert Class 2 Policy Validation 
Authority/CN=http://www.valicert.com//emailaddress=i...@valicert.com
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: 
certificate verification depth=2 verify=1 subject=/C=US/O=The Go Daddy Group, 
Inc./OU=Go Daddy Class 2 Certification Authority
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: 
certificate verification depth=1 verify=1 
subject=/C=US/ST=Arizona/L=Scottsdale/O=GoDaddy.com, 
Inc./OU=http://certificates.godaddy.com/repository/CN=Go Daddy Secure 
Certification Authority/serialNumber=07969287
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: 
certificate verification depth=0 verify=1 
subject=/O=*.NEWSERVER-DOMAIN/OU=Domain Control Validated/CN=*.NEWSERVER-DOMAIN
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: SSL_connect:SSLv3 read server 
certificate A
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: SSL_connect:SSLv3 read server done A
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: SSL_connect:SSLv3 write client key 
exchange A
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: SSL_connect:SSLv3 write change 
cipher spec A
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: SSL_connect:SSLv3 write finished A
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: SSL_connect:SSLv3 flush data
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: SSL_connect:SSLv3 read finished A
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: save session 
smtp:NEWSERVER-IPADDR:587:NEWSERVER-OTHERNAMEp=0c=ALL:+RC4:@STRENGTH to smtp 
cache
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/tlsmgr[13764]: put smtp session 
id=smtp:NEWSERVER-IPADDR:587:NEWSERVER-OTHERNAMEp=0c=ALL:+RC4:@STRENGTH [data 
1378 bytes]
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/tlsmgr[13764]: write smtp TLS cache entry 
smtp:NEWSERVER-IPADDR:587:NEWSERVER-OTHERNAMEp=0c=ALL:+RC4:@STRENGTH: 
time=1273492775 [data 1378 bytes]
May 10 12:59:35 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: Trusted TLS connection established 
to NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)
May 10 12:59:40 rimmer postfix/smtp[13763]: 3BB483982: to=MY-EMAIL-ADDRESS, 
relay=NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587, delay=5.5, delays=0.02/0.03/5.4/0, 
dsn=4.7.3, status=deferred (SASL authentication failed; server 
NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR] said: 535 5.7.3 Authentication unsuccessful)
/etc/postfix/main.cf:
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Debian/GNU)
biff = no
append_dot_mydomain = no
readme_directory = 

Re: Authentication unsuccessful relaying from Postfix to Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service

[Camaleón]

On Thu, 13 May 2010 11:59:20 +0100, Clive Standbridge wrote:

 The attachments contain the lines written to /var/log/auth.log and
 /var/log/mail.log when the attempt to mail via NEWSERVER:587 failed,
 also my /etc/postfix/main.cf (without comments).

I see nothing about the failure. All seems to go fine, Postfix 
establishes a connection with remote server and silently fails :-/

Put Postfix into a more verbose logging. In main.cf:

***
debug_peer_level = 2
debug_peer_list = NEWSERVER
***

Reload Postfix and try again.

P.S. 1 - Check the more basic here: saslauth mechanisms being used for 
authenticating and of course, a correct password in /etc/postfix/
sasl_passwd O:-)

P.S. 2 - Remember that 535 5.7.3 Authentication unsuccessful is a 
message coming from Exchange server -not Postfix- so it would be great if 
you could review the logs from the MS server side.

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.05.13.12.11...@gmail.com

Re: Authentication unsuccessful relaying from Postfix to MicrosoftESMTP MAIL Service

[Camaleón]

On Mon, 10 May 2010 00:11:34 +0100, Clive Standbridge wrote:

(...)

  May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: Untrusted TLS connection
  established to NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: TLSv1 with cipher
  RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)
 
 I guess your are having problems with the certificate itself. It cannot
 be verified by the remote server.
 
 The TLS part seems to be sorted now (see my reply to Sven). But the
 authentication still fails.

Then, put the full Postfix log again so we can check where (and why) it 
stops now :-)

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.05.10.07.36...@gmail.com

Authentication unsuccessful relaying from Postfix to Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service

[Clive Standbridge]

Hi,

I'm trying in vain to relay external mail from postfix on a Debian
lenny machine to a Microsoft SMTP server on the Internet.  I've been
reading and searching for days. I've tried numerous combinations of
settings although I'm note certain what they all do and am
experiencing information overload.

I am trying to migrate from one MS server to another.
OLDSERVER runs on port 25.
NEWSERVER runs on port 587. Supposedly it requires TLS but I'm not
certain of that (more later).

My existing, working, setup has postfix set up for Internet with smarthost
and the login credentials for OLDSERVER are in /etc/postfix/sasl_passwd.
I send mail from mutt to /usr/sbin/sendmail -oem -oi and it is duly 
relayed by postfix.

When I change relayhost to NEWSERVER:587, the mail gets stuck in postfix.
In /var/log/mail.log I see Authentication unsuccessful.

On the same machine I set up an account in IceDove to use NEWSERVER:587
for SMTP and it just works.  
What's more, it works when Secure Connection is set to any of
None, TLS, Use TLS if available. (That's why I cast doubt on the
TLS requirement above).

So my questions are:
 * How can I fix this in Postfix?
 * Can Postfix do this? Or do I need to change to something else e.g. Exim?
 * What does IceDove do that Postfix doesn't?

The rest of this mail contains more detail.

I've tried with:
 * smtp_sasl_security_options set to noanonymous and empty
 * smtp_tls_security_level set to may, none, encrypt and not set.
 * relayhost set to NEWSERVER:587 and [NEWSERVER]:587 in main.cf and 
   sasl_passwd (kept them in step and updated sasl_passwd.db each time)


(Sanitised) server information using ehlo command in telnet:

$ telnet NEWSERVER 587
Trying NEWSERVER-IPADDR...
Connected to NEWSERVER.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 NEWSERVER-OTHERNAME Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service ready at Fri, 7 May 2010 
14:43:28 +0100
ehlo
250-NEWSERVER-OTHERNAME Hello [MY-IPADDR]
250-SIZE 1536
250-PIPELINING
250-DSN
250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
250-STARTTLS
250-AUTH GSSAPI NTLM
250-8BITMIME
250-BINARYMIME
250 CHUNKING

$ telnet OLDSERVER 25
Trying OLDSERVER-IPADDR...
Connected to OLDSERVER.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 OLDSERVER-OTHERNAME Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service, Version: 6.0.3790.3959 
ready at  Fri, 7 May 2010 15:44:25 +0200 
ehlo
250-OLDSERVER-OTHERNAME Hello [MY-IPADDR]
250-TURN
250-SIZE
250-ETRN
250-PIPELINING
250-DSN
250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
250-8bitmime
250-BINARYMIME
250-CHUNKING
250-VRFY
250-X-EXPS GSSAPI NTLM LOGIN
250-X-EXPS=LOGIN
250-AUTH GSSAPI NTLM LOGIN
250-AUTH=LOGIN
250-X-LINK2STATE
250-XEXCH50
250 OK

Here are some sanitised logs from when the problem occurs. These were 
collected with the following settings:
relayhost = NEWSERVER:587
smtp_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
smtp_tls_security_level = may
(although it's the same for all the settings I tried, except there were
no SSL/TLS logs when smtp_tls_security_level = none).


/var/log/auth.log:
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: NTLM client step 1
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: NTLM client step 2
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: server flags: ff810205
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: server domain: NEWSERVER-NTDOMAIN
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: calculating NT response

/var/log/mail.log:
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/pickup[10629]: 57BC739B7: uid=1000 
from=MY-EMAIL-ADDRESS
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/cleanup[10641]: 57BC739B7: 
resent-message-id=20100509153001.gf3...@my-mailname
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/cleanup[10641]: 57BC739B7: 
message-id=20100509141642.gb3...@my-mailname
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/qmgr[10630]: 57BC739B7: from=MY-EMAIL-ADDRESS, 
size=863, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: initializing the client-side TLS 
engine
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/tlsmgr[10644]: open smtp TLS cache 
btree:/var/lib/postfix/smtp_scache
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/tlsmgr[10644]: tlsmgr_cache_run_event: start TLS 
smtp session cache cleanup
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: setting up TLS connection to 
NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: 
TLS cipher list ALL:+RC4:@STRENGTH
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: looking for session 
smtp:NEWSERVER-IPADDR:587:NEWSERVER-OTHERNAMEp=0c=ALL:+RC4:@STRENGTH in smtp 
cache
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/tlsmgr[10644]: lookup smtp session 
id=smtp:NEWSERVER-IPADDR:587:NEWSERVER-OTHERNAMEp=0c=ALL:+RC4:@STRENGTH
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: SSL_connect:before/connect 
initialization
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: SSL_connect:SSLv2/v3 write client 
hello A
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: SSL_connect:SSLv3 read server hello 
A
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: 
certificate verification depth=2 verify=0 subject=/C=US/O=The Go Daddy Group, 
Inc./OU=Go Daddy Class 2 Certification Authority
May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix

Re: Authentication unsuccessful relaying from Postfix to Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service

[Celejar]

On Sun, 9 May 2010 17:06:52 +0100
Clive Standbridge clive.standbri...@myriadgroup.com wrote:

 Hi,
 
 I'm trying in vain to relay external mail from postfix on a Debian
 lenny machine to a Microsoft SMTP server on the Internet.  I've been
 reading and searching for days. I've tried numerous combinations of
 settings although I'm note certain what they all do and am
 experiencing information overload.
 
 I am trying to migrate from one MS server to another.
 OLDSERVER runs on port 25.
 NEWSERVER runs on port 587. Supposedly it requires TLS but I'm not
 certain of that (more later).

I don't have a solution, just one possibly helpful bit of advice: swaks
is the tool for troubleshooting this sort of thing.  You have gotten
lots of useful information from Postfix and telnet, but I'd try using
swaks to communicate with the server with and without TLS, and you'll
see, for any combination of connection and authentication options
that you try, what works and what errors are received on failure.

Celejar
-- 
foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator
mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email
ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100509132705.6ca00437.cele...@gmail.com

Re: Authentication unsuccessful relaying from Postfix to Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service

[Camaleón]

On Sun, 09 May 2010 17:06:52 +0100, Clive Standbridge wrote:

 I'm trying in vain to relay external mail from postfix on a Debian lenny
 machine to a Microsoft SMTP server on the Internet.  I've been reading
 and searching for days. I've tried numerous combinations of settings
 although I'm note certain what they all do and am experiencing
 information overload.

O.k. Then you need to setup Postfix SSL/TLS acting as client, not server. 
 
(...)

 When I change relayhost to NEWSERVER:587, the mail gets stuck in
 postfix. In /var/log/mail.log I see Authentication unsuccessful.

(...)

 So my questions are:
  * How can I fix this in Postfix?

Let's see the logs...

  * Can Postfix do this? Or do I need to change to something else e.g.
  Exim? 

Yes, you can setup Postfix for this.

 * What does IceDove do that Postfix doesn't?

Logs will tell.
 
 The rest of this mail contains more detail.
 
 I've tried with:
  * smtp_sasl_security_options set to noanonymous and empty *
  smtp_tls_security_level set to may, none, encrypt and not set. *
  relayhost set to NEWSERVER:587 and [NEWSERVER]:587 in main.cf and
sasl_passwd (kept them in step and updated sasl_passwd.db each time)

The doc you have to follow stands here:

http://www.postfix.org/SASL_README.html#client_sasl

 /var/log/mail.log:

(...)

 May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: certificate verification failed 
 for NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: untrusted issuer /L=ValiCert Validation 
 Network/O=ValiCert, Inc./OU=ValiCert Class 2 Policy Validation 
 Authority/CN=http://www.valicert.com//emailaddress=i...@valicert.com

Server replies that does not trust the issuer of that CA.

(...)

 May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: Untrusted TLS connection 
 established to NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 
 (128/128 bits)

I guess your are having problems with the certificate itself. It cannot 
be verified by the remote server.

Note: I think Thunderbird uses its own SSL CA root certificates database... 

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.05.09.17.43...@gmail.com

Re: Authentication unsuccessful relaying from Postfix to Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service

[Sven Joachim]

On 2010-05-09 19:43 +0200, Camaleón wrote:

 (...)

 May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: certificate verification failed 
 for NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: untrusted issuer /L=ValiCert Validation 
 Network/O=ValiCert, Inc./OU=ValiCert Class 2 Policy Validation 
 Authority/CN=http://www.valicert.com//emailaddress=i...@valicert.com

 Server replies that does not trust the issuer of that CA.

I believe it's postfix itself which does not trust the CA because it
does not know it.

 (...)

 May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: Untrusted TLS connection 
 established to NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 
 (128/128 bits)

 I guess your are having problems with the certificate itself. It cannot 
 be verified by the remote server.

It's the other way around, postfix cannot verify the remote server's
certificate.

 Note: I think Thunderbird uses its own SSL CA root certificates database... 

The problem with postfix is that it runs chrooted and the CA
certificates are not copied into the chroot.  See #287795¹.

Sven


¹ http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=287795


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87tyqgc43w@turtle.gmx.de

Re: Re: Authentication unsuccessful relaying from Postfix to Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service

[Clive Standbridge]

 The problem with postfix is that it runs chrooted and the CA
 certificates are not copied into the chroot.  See #287795¹.
 
 Sven
 
 ¹ http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=287795

Hi Sven,

Thanks for that suggestion. I had seen that bug and discounted it
because the patch is only effective if smtp_tls_CApath is set, and
mine wasn't set. But your mail prompted another look, and with both
smtp_tls_CApath = /etc/ssl/certs and applying the patch from #287795,
it banished the certificate verification failed and changed
Untrusted TLS connection established to Trusted TLS connection
established.

So that's progress :-)

Unfortunately it's still failing to authenticate. From mail.log:
May  9 21:49:18 rimmer postfix/smtp[8121]: 5DE243A66: to=MY-EMAIL-ADDRESS, 
relay=NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587, delay=5.5, delays=0.02/0.03/5.4/0, 
dsn=4.7.3, status=deferred (SASL authentication failed; server 
NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR] said: 535 5.7.3 Authentication unsuccessful)

Thanks,
Clive


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100509223356.ga13...@rimmer.esmertec.com

Re: Re: Authentication unsuccessful relaying from Postfix to MicrosoftESMTP MAIL Service

[Clive Standbridge]

Hi Camaleón,


 O.k. Then you need to setup Postfix SSL/TLS acting as client, not
 server. 

Oh that's what I thought I did. I only changed smtp_* settings, not
smtpd_* settings.


  So my questions are:
   * How can I fix this in Postfix?
 
 Let's see the logs...

I already posted excerpts from /var/log/auth.log and /var/log/mail.log
I'm not sure which other logs are relevant. 


   * Can Postfix do this? Or do I need to change to something else
   * e.g.
   Exim? 
 
 Yes, you can setup Postfix for this.

That's good, thanks.


  * What does IceDove do that Postfix doesn't?
 
 Logs will tell.

Again, not sure which logs. 


 The doc you have to follow stands here:
 
 http://www.postfix.org/SASL_README.html#client_sasl

Thanks. In fact I've used those settings, and for my old server, they work.


  /var/log/mail.log:
 
 (...)
 
  May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: certificate verification failed 
  for NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: untrusted issuer /L=ValiCert 
  Validation Network/O=ValiCert, Inc./OU=ValiCert Class 2 Policy Validation 
  Authority/CN=http://www.valicert.com//emailaddress=i...@valicert.com
 
 Server replies that does not trust the issuer of that CA.
 
 (...)
 
  May  9 16:30:01 rimmer postfix/smtp[10643]: Untrusted TLS connection 
  established to NEWSERVER[NEWSERVER-IPADDR]:587: TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 
  (128/128 bits)
 
 I guess your are having problems with the certificate itself. It
 cannot 
 be verified by the remote server.

The TLS part seems to be sorted now (see my reply to Sven).
But the authentication still fails.


Thanks for your help,
Clive


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100509231134.ga13...@rimmer.esmertec.com

Re: Re: Authentication unsuccessful relaying from Postfix to Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service

[Clive Standbridge]

 I don't have a solution, just one possibly helpful bit of advice: swaks
 is the tool for troubleshooting this sort of thing.  You have gotten
 lots of useful information from Postfix and telnet, but I'd try using
 swaks to communicate with the server with and without TLS, and you'll
 see, for any combination of connection and authentication options
 that you try, what works and what errors are received on failure.

Hi Celejar,

Thanks for that advice. I will take a look at swaks.
I have run out of weekend now, so it may take a day or two.

-- 
Cheers,
Clive


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100509231514.ga13...@rimmer.esmertec.com

Secure Mail Service

[user36259]

Message is attached.

id: 37138
pass: tsllgkvqk

Thank you,
Secure Mail Service,
Gmail.com

[avast! - INFECTED] Protected Mail Service (AOL.com)

[id35973]

ID: 45114
Password: gxrawabso

Message is attached.

Thank you,
Protected Mail Service,
AOL.com

---
Antivirus avast! : message Sortant INFECTE :
\data.zip#2170407580 (JS:Feebs family) a ete supprime du message.

Base de donnees virale  (VPS) : 0605-1, 30/01/2006
Analyse le : 30/01/2006 20:17:08
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

Re: FW: FW: Retrieving mail from a web based mail service?

[Chris Kenrick]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 09:48:13AM +0530, Sharninder wrote:
 
  I was wondering if there was nything like fetchmail for web based
  access?
 
 
 not any AFAIK. All web mail clients might handle and do handle the
 client side differently even though they might be using the same
 IMAP or POP protocols on the server. If it's yahoo or hotmail u
 migth find something of your interest on freshmeat.

There's a debian package called gotmail that does this for hotmail, its
in stable/testing/unstable.

- Chris


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

FW: FW: Retrieving mail from a web based mail service?

[stan]

Is there any way to retrieve mail from a web based mail service, and feed
it to. let's say procmail?

Here's the scenario. My companby has recently changed from providing POP2
based mail acces to a web browser based solution.

I was using fetchmail to retireve tha mail and pass it on to sendmail on my
workstation. Then I could use mutt to read it. I _am_ still able to _send_
mail using sendmail.

I was wondering if there was nything like fetchmail for web based access?

Yes, I know how ugly this is :-(

-- 
They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: FW: FW: Retrieving mail from a web based mail service?

[Mark L. Kahnt]

On Tue, 2003-03-25 at 13:28, stan wrote:
 Is there any way to retrieve mail from a web based mail service, and feed
 it to. let's say procmail?
 
 Here's the scenario. My companby has recently changed from providing POP2
 based mail acces to a web browser based solution.
 
 I was using fetchmail to retireve tha mail and pass it on to sendmail on my
 workstation. Then I could use mutt to read it. I _am_ still able to _send_
 mail using sendmail.
 
 I was wondering if there was nything like fetchmail for web based access?
 
 Yes, I know how ugly this is :-(
 
 -- 
 They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
 neither liberty nor safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin

Although FetchYahoo is doing effectively that, it does it by loading in
and interpretting the Yahoo Mail webpages, and extracting the emails
from that. Conceptually, it works, and in practice, it is working, but
to be used elsewhere, it must be largely rewritten to deal with the
structure of your company's webmail webpages. Not a nice task.
-- 
Mark L. Kahnt, FLMI/M, ALHC, HIA, AIAA, ACS, MHP
ML Kahnt New Markets Consulting
Tel: (613) 531-8684 / (613) 539-0935
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: FW: FW: Retrieving mail from a web based mail service?

[Sharninder]

 I was wondering if there was nything like fetchmail for web based
 access?


not any AFAIK. All web mail clients might handle and do handle the
client side differently even though they might be using the same
IMAP or POP protocols on the server. If it's yahoo or hotmail u
migth find something of your interest on freshmeat. It should be
possible to write a simple utility to do your job though. U'll have
to parse the webmail's inputs to the mail server and then use that
to read the mails.
Sharninder Singh
National Institute Of Management, Calcutta

--
'M.C.S.E - Minesweeper Consultant  Solitaire Expert'



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

OT Pop3 mail service

[ray p]

Does anyone know of a good Linux friendly pop3 mail provider free would be good 
although pay would also work. Thanks for any thoughts on the subject. 
-- 
BOFH excuse #103:

operators on strike due to broken coffee machine


pgpjMIaUZsopQ.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: OT Pop3 mail service

[Craig Dickson]

ray p wrote:

 Does anyone know of a good Linux friendly pop3 mail provider free
 would be good although pay would also work. Thanks for any thoughts on
 the subject.

Yahoo does well enough for me. In order to enable POP3/SMTP access, you
have to agree to let them send you a bit of spam on a weekly or monthly
basis (I forget which), but this isn't much of a problem since they
don't send much of it, and all their spam is helpfully sent from
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (or @yahooinc.com?), so it can be trivially
dumped using the following procmail recipe:

:0
* ^From:.*Yahoo-Delivers
/dev/null