Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
Curt Howland said: HOWEVER, I run Unstable, by choice. Sid breaks all his toys, so I expect to have problems like this once in a while. -- *in bevis and butthead voice* He He He He He He --TeddyB -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2042713445-1295443469-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-17292724...@bda029.bisx.prod.on.blackberry
Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Paul Johnson pauljoh...@gmail.com wrote: Can I escape Ubuntu to Debian? 1. Is Debian defaulting to the Unity Desktop too? (please say no) No. (For Ubuntu, you'll be able to switch from Unity to GNOME Shell. There's also a proposal floating around for a Gubuntu.) 2. How can I make a transition to Debian from Ubuntu? So I need to change my apt repositories and then do what else? If glibc or the kernel headers are new, I'll have to recompile everything I've built, but that's OK. Even if a side-grade's doable, you're much better off with a clean install. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktimrxusqoetq0es2tb2dotqs7dnocth84e6fe...@mail.gmail.com
Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
On 17 Jan 2011, Wolodja Wentland wrote: [snip] I would like to note that it is easily possible to install *any* desktop environment or window manager on Debian (and probably Ubuntu) and that you don't have to use the default one. I typically don't install any tasks when I install a new system and add additional packages after the initial minimal installation. [snip] This is one of the main reasons I like Debian - the flexibility one has in choosing what to install (no desktop at all in my case, just Icewm). Like you, I use a minimal install and then add packages as required. I make a list of all the packages I have on my existing system and use that to remind me of what I will probably use in the new one. -- Anthony Campbell - a...@acampbell.org.uk Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk - sample my ebooks at http://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/acampbell -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110118100523.gc25...@acampbell.org.uk
Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
You need to simply try it out. I don't think Debian will choose Unity instead of Gnome... (I'm personally very positive of this... but that is only my serious belief) anyway, I need to consider carefully abandoning Ubuntu. I'm sure they will keep supporting Gnome. Nevertheless, I stared a long time ago with RedHat7 (2 years), then Mandrake, then Fedora, then Mandrake again (3 years), then Ubuntu (2 months) and, for the last 4 years, Debian. And I must say Debian really rules. But Ubuntu is also very good. I'dd suggest you try out Debian for some weeks. On Mon, 2011-01-17 at 12:09 -0600, Paul Johnson wrote: Greetings. On several laptops and desktops, I made the transition from Fedora - Ubuntu about 3 years ago. I did that mainly because Fedora updates kept breaking the Nvidia proprietary video drivers and the developers openly said that they didn't really care whether or not their distribution had drivers that could work with the hardware. Ubuntu developers at least recognized the problem and have a repository for commercial/addon drivers and they try to make sure the OS doesn't break the video drivers. Anyway, I just learned that in the next Ubuntu, they are adopting the Unity Desktop. I did some checking on that and I totally hate it. I hate Mac GUI and am disgusted that the free/open movement pushes to imitate it. If I liked the look/feel of it, then I might be willing to put up with the pains of transition in the next Ubuntu, but, well, I don't. They say they will have other desktop options, but, in my experience, it will be tough to avoid the packaging and configuration changes that they enforce on everybody in order to make Unity work (maybe I'm too skeptical). Can I escape Ubuntu to Debian? 1. Is Debian defaulting to the Unity Desktop too? (please say no) 2. How can I make a transition to Debian from Ubuntu? So I need to change my apt repositories and then do what else? If glibc or the kernel headers are new, I'll have to recompile everything I've built, but that's OK. 3. If I make this change Ubuntu - Debian, will I end up back in Nvidia Hell where the OS updates frequently break the commercial/proprietary video drivers? I understand that nouveau is providing reasonable 2D for Nvidia cards, but my job requires the 3D support that seems available only from the commercial driver. I'm not trolling, not trying for a flame war here. If you like Unity, more power to you. If you like Ubuntu, OK, it has been good for me too. PJ -- Paul E. Johnson Professor, Political Science 1541 Lilac Lane, Room 504 University of Kansas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1295348570.2398.4.ca...@squeeje.critical.pt
Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
On Mon, 2011-01-17 at 12:09 -0600, Paul Johnson wrote: They say they will have other desktop options, but, in my experience, it will be tough to avoid the packaging and configuration changes that they enforce on everybody in order to make Unity work (maybe I'm too skeptical). I sincerely believe Gnome is too important for them to just leave it just like that but... I can't tell for sure... Gnome will always be available... (I hope and believe) Joao -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1295348985.2398.9.ca...@squeeje.critical.pt
[OT-where's Gnome going]Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
On the 18/01/2011 12:09, Joao Ferreira gmail wrote: On Mon, 2011-01-17 at 12:09 -0600, Paul Johnson wrote: They say they will have other desktop options, but, in my experience, it will be tough to avoid the packaging and configuration changes that they enforce on everybody in order to make Unity work (maybe I'm too skeptical). I sincerely believe Gnome is too important for them to just leave it just like that but... I can't tell for sure... Gnome will always be available... (I hope and believe) Joao Ubuntu shows more and more interest in Qt, it is now official in the form of integrating Qt libraries in Ubuntu cd's, and as Shuttleworth puts it [1] they'll have to make room for this to happen, at the expanse of what ? Unless they ship on dvd instead of cd or create a separate Gnome spin (which will come anyway from the anti-unity crowd), they will have a hard time fitting everything on one live-cd. Gnome is probably going to change a lot with shell, from a timing point of view it makes sense to take this decision now that Gnome is about to enter a period of extensive changes (and probably some instability) in the fashion of what KDE did earlier. Just speculating. [1] http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Ubuntu-opening-up-to-Qt-applications-1170989.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d35817c.5070...@googlemail.com
Re: [OT-where's Gnome going]Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 5:33 PM, tv.deb...@googlemail.com tv.deb...@googlemail.com wrote: On the 18/01/2011 12:09, Joao Ferreira gmail wrote: On Mon, 2011-01-17 at 12:09 -0600, Paul Johnson wrote: They say they will have other desktop options, but, in my experience, it will be tough to avoid the packaging and configuration changes that they enforce on everybody in order to make Unity work (maybe I'm too skeptical). I sincerely believe Gnome is too important for them to just leave it just like that but... I can't tell for sure... Gnome will always be available... (I hope and believe) Joao Ubuntu shows more and more interest in Qt, it is now official in the form of integrating Qt libraries in Ubuntu cd's, and as Shuttleworth puts it [1] they'll have to make room for this to happen, at the expanse of what ? Unless they ship on dvd instead of cd or create a separate Gnome spin (which will come anyway from the anti-unity crowd), they My personal speculation is that the reason Canonical is backing things like Wayland, Unity and now Qt is probably to move into the Smartphone and Tablet arena. The Unity interface is deceptively similar to ones found on handheld devices. Canonical is playing this close to the chest possibly for tactical reasons. Besides, AFAIK Unity is a shell to the GNOME environment. GNOME should be available as an option, just not the default. My 2 paise, Didar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTi=n1o9s5zaplkvnv4lhpo+gytfgecnp5gjyn...@mail.gmail.com
Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
Mr. Johnson, good morning. Anyway, I just learned that in the next Ubuntu, they are adopting the Unity Desktop. I did some checking on that and I totally hate it. I understand completely. I've had the same reaction to KDE4. Can I escape Ubuntu to Debian? Yes. Although the default in Debian is the GNOME desktop, the Debian developers go to great lengths to make running any desktop environment or window manger that is packaged for Debian as seamless as possible. The GDM (and KDM for that matter) login screens have a menu list of all installed window managers and desktop environments from which to choose. This allows for easy changes of desktop, so you can use which ever one strikes your fancy, or just leave last selected to use the one you're accustomed to. Debian install CD#1 comes in three flavors, GNOME (generic), KDE and XFCE (specified), you would have to be careful to download the specific one you wanted if you don't want GNOME. Debian DVD#1, bootable-business-card and net-install disk images have the option (under advanced) to install either the full KDE, GNOME or XFCE package suites right from the start. http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/squeeze_di_rc1/i386/iso-cd/ Scroll to the bottom of the above directory to see the other install images. This is for Squeeze, the about to be declared completely stable. 1. Is Debian defaulting to the Unity Desktop too? (please say no) Even if the Debian Developers were to make such a decision in several years, the one and only time that would be an issue is if you didn't know about it and chose the generic CD#1 with which to do an install. It is a simple matter in aptitude, dselect or whatever your package manager of choice, to simply install the desktop of your choice, and choose it when you log in. 2. How can I make a transition to Debian from Ubuntu? So I need to change my apt repositories and then do what else? Maybe someone else has answered this question. Not knowing exactly what the Ubuntu developers do that is different than Debian, I personally wouldn't risk it without having done a full backup of my data anyway in case it went bad and a reinstall was called for. 3. If I make this change Ubuntu - Debian, will I end up back in Nvidia Hell where the OS updates frequently break the commercial/proprietary video drivers? In my personal experience, I have only had that happen once in many years of using the Nvidia proprietary driver: three days ago. One of the simlinks was altered. Re-running the Nvidia proprietary installer solved the problem, with nothing more difficult than stopping X, running the binary, and logging back in. HOWEVER, I run Unstable, by choice. Sid breaks all his toys, so I expect to have problems like this once in a while. I fully expect that if you chose to run Debian Stable, you wouldn't see that kind of trouble. I fully expect you will have no problems running Debian, whatever way you choose to do so. The benefits of self-organizing anarchy. Curt- -- The Magistrate, enrobed in taxes, condemns the thief in stolen rags. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTimNgcbjWPij3gXtrQqx=mfpuxfzp2_usvsgv...@mail.gmail.com
transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
Greetings. On several laptops and desktops, I made the transition from Fedora - Ubuntu about 3 years ago. I did that mainly because Fedora updates kept breaking the Nvidia proprietary video drivers and the developers openly said that they didn't really care whether or not their distribution had drivers that could work with the hardware. Ubuntu developers at least recognized the problem and have a repository for commercial/addon drivers and they try to make sure the OS doesn't break the video drivers. Anyway, I just learned that in the next Ubuntu, they are adopting the Unity Desktop. I did some checking on that and I totally hate it. I hate Mac GUI and am disgusted that the free/open movement pushes to imitate it. If I liked the look/feel of it, then I might be willing to put up with the pains of transition in the next Ubuntu, but, well, I don't. They say they will have other desktop options, but, in my experience, it will be tough to avoid the packaging and configuration changes that they enforce on everybody in order to make Unity work (maybe I'm too skeptical). Can I escape Ubuntu to Debian? 1. Is Debian defaulting to the Unity Desktop too? (please say no) 2. How can I make a transition to Debian from Ubuntu? So I need to change my apt repositories and then do what else? If glibc or the kernel headers are new, I'll have to recompile everything I've built, but that's OK. 3. If I make this change Ubuntu - Debian, will I end up back in Nvidia Hell where the OS updates frequently break the commercial/proprietary video drivers? I understand that nouveau is providing reasonable 2D for Nvidia cards, but my job requires the 3D support that seems available only from the commercial driver. I'm not trolling, not trying for a flame war here. If you like Unity, more power to you. If you like Ubuntu, OK, it has been good for me too. PJ -- Paul E. Johnson Professor, Political Science 1541 Lilac Lane, Room 504 University of Kansas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTi=UV6RVEyVK+KC6=2vwbpls2jf14nghdhivk...@mail.gmail.com
Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
On Mon January 17 2011 10:09:27 Paul Johnson wrote: 1. Is Debian defaulting to the Unity Desktop too? (please say no) I don't think so. 2. How can I make a transition to Debian from Ubuntu? So I need to change my apt repositories and then do what else? If glibc or the kernel headers are new, I'll have to recompile everything I've built, but that's OK. Make sure you have a complete backup before you start. On RAID1 systems we also degrade the array and do the conversion on one mirror so that we can quickly switch back if the conversion fails. Usually we uninstall the desktop, apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade, and then install the Debian desktop. It is totally unsupported and may break everything but every time we've converted a system from Ubuntu to Debian in this way it has worked fine. 3. If I make this change Ubuntu - Debian, will I end up back in Nvidia Hell where the OS updates frequently break the commercial/proprietary video drivers? I understand that nouveau is providing reasonable 2D for Nvidia cards, but my job requires the 3D support that seems available only from the commercial driver. Non-free nVidia works great in Debian, both Lenny and Squeeze, both regular kernel module and DKMS (recommended). --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201101171026.52916.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 10:26:52 -0800, Mike Bird wrote: It is totally unsupported and may break everything but every time we've converted a system from Ubuntu to Debian in this way it has worked fine. Most important underlying requirement is the compatibility (e.g. glibc, etc). The convoluted Ubuntu versioning always makes my head spin. Does anyone have some kind of rule of thumb of which Ubuntu versions are compatible with Debian testing/sid? Thanks -- Tong (remove underscore(s) to reply) http://xpt.sourceforge.net/techdocs/ http://xpt.sourceforge.net/tools/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/ih221l$u56$2...@dough.gmane.org
Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
Can I escape Ubuntu to Debian? Sure! 1. Is Debian defaulting to the Unity Desktop too? (please say no) No. Well...as far as I can see into the future Debian won't be defaulting to it. It might be included in some repo somewhere down the road. If I recall correctly there was a decent discussion on Unity and Debian here on this list sometime at the end of last year. 2. How can I make a transition to Debian from Ubuntu? So I need to change my apt repositories and then do what else? If glibc or the kernel headers are new, I'll have to recompile everything I've built, but that's OK. When I transitioned from Ubuntu to Debian this was 4 years ago and I just backed up my data to DVD, did a clean install, and then restored my data. Not sure if this answer helps you much... 3. If I make this change Ubuntu - Debian, will I end up back in Nvidia Hell where the OS updates frequently break the commercial/proprietary video drivers? I understand that nouveau is providing reasonable 2D for Nvidia cards, but my job requires the 3D support that seems available only from the commercial driver. I did not experience problems using the Nvidia driver and updating Debian. -- Petrus Validus petrus.vali...@gmail.com If there isn't a way, I'll make one. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1295289250.4969.16.camel@Axon.8EEWS
Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 12:09:27 -0600, Paul Johnson wrote: (...) Can I escape Ubuntu to Debian? Yes, why not? :-? 1. Is Debian defaulting to the Unity Desktop too? (please say no) I hope not, but I fairly doubt you don't have the chance to use the default GNOME desktop within Ubuntu, maybe not by default but anything is changeable... 2. How can I make a transition to Debian from Ubuntu? So I need to change my apt repositories and then do what else? If glibc or the kernel headers are new, I'll have to recompile everything I've built, but that's OK. I would better install it from scratch, you will feel even more purifed (just kidding, but only in the last sentence) ;-) 3. If I make this change Ubuntu - Debian, will I end up back in Nvidia Hell where the OS updates frequently break the commercial/proprietary video drivers? I understand that nouveau is providing reasonable 2D for Nvidia cards, but my job requires the 3D support that seems available only from the commercial driver. If you keep stable, no, no kernel update will break your nvidia drivers (the open source nor the closed source ones). If you decide to go with testing, the answer should be... maybe? If you are unsure about the change and worried on hardware detection, I would go first with a LiveCD and/or installing Debian into a virtual machine. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.01.17.18.45...@gmail.com
Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
On 2011-01-17 19:09 +0100, Paul Johnson wrote: On several laptops and desktops, I made the transition from Fedora - Ubuntu about 3 years ago. I did that mainly because Fedora updates kept breaking the Nvidia proprietary video drivers and the developers openly said that they didn't really care whether or not their distribution had drivers that could work with the hardware. I'm pretty sure Fedora cares about good hardware support, but it's true that they do not held back new kernels and X versions to benefit proprietary drivers; this is not their goal. Ubuntu developers at least recognized the problem and have a repository for commercial/addon drivers and they try to make sure the OS doesn't break the video drivers. At least in released versions, yes. Development versions will usually break proprietary drivers. Anyway, I just learned that in the next Ubuntu, they are adopting the Unity Desktop. I did some checking on that and I totally hate it. I hate Mac GUI and am disgusted that the free/open movement pushes to imitate it. If I liked the look/feel of it, then I might be willing to put up with the pains of transition in the next Ubuntu, but, well, I don't. They say they will have other desktop options, but, in my experience, it will be tough to avoid the packaging and configuration changes that they enforce on everybody in order to make Unity work (maybe I'm too skeptical). Can I escape Ubuntu to Debian? You can install Debian instead of Ubuntu or along with it. 1. Is Debian defaulting to the Unity Desktop too? (please say no) AFAIK, there are no unity packages in Debian yet, so you're safe for the moment. ;-) 2. How can I make a transition to Debian from Ubuntu? So I need to change my apt repositories and then do what else? That will almost certainly lead to a broken system, since Ubuntu has diverged far enough from Debian to make side-grading by just changes sources.list and running apt-get dist-upgrade a very challenging task, to put it mildly. Ubuntu has many packages in newer versions than Debian, packages some important packages (e.g. udev) very differently, uses a different init system etc. Don't even try that, instead install Debian on a different partition and remove Ubuntu when (if?) you're comfortable with Debian. 3. If I make this change Ubuntu - Debian, will I end up back in Nvidia Hell where the OS updates frequently break the commercial/proprietary video drivers? Depends on which Debian version you intend to use: - In stable, the proprietary drivers never break. They may have security flaws, though. Those can and will not be fixed. If your hardware is new, it may not be supported by either free or proprietary drivers. - In testing, at least the Nvidia drivers had been broken most of the time during the last few years. The packaging seems to have improved in the last few months though. - In unstable, the Nvidia drivers work most of the time, but you have to build your own kernel module. Thanks to dkms this should be rather easy these days. The legacy drivers will break more often, since Nvidia does not update them timely for new kernels and Xorg releases. Sven -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87fwsrmk7c@turtle.gmx.de
Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:09 -0600, Paul Johnson wrote: Can I escape Ubuntu to Debian? Sure. You are more than welcome to try and use Debian. 1. Is Debian defaulting to the Unity Desktop too? (please say no) Unity has to my knowledge not even been packaged for Debian [4]. Given that Debian uses the Gnome desktop as standard desktop if you install the desktop task you will more or less end up with the Gnome version in testing [1] at the time of the release. I would like to note that it is easily possible to install *any* desktop environment or window manager on Debian (and probably Ubuntu) and that you don't have to use the default one. I typically don't install any tasks when I install a new system and add additional packages after the initial minimal installation. 2. How can I make a transition to Debian from Ubuntu? So I need to change my apt repositories and then do what else? If glibc or the kernel headers are new, I'll have to recompile everything I've built, but that's OK. You can not transform an Ubuntu system to a Debian system and you have to install Debian from scratch if you want to use it. Given that Squeeze will be released soonish I would recommend to install it instead of Lenny (on your personal machine!): http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ http://www.debian.org/releases/squeeze/installmanual 3. If I make this change Ubuntu - Debian, will I end up back in Nvidia Hell where the OS updates frequently break the commercial/proprietary video drivers? I understand that nouveau is providing reasonable 2D for Nvidia cards, but my job requires the 3D support that seems available only from the commercial driver. Nvidia drivers are available in Debian's non-free archive and well supported. 1. Enabling non-free sources in /etc/apt/sources.list 2. Installing kernel headers for your kernel: aptitude install linux-headers-2.6-`uname -r |sed 's,.*-,,'` 3. Installing the drivers (DKMS flavour [2]) nvidia-glx nvidia-xconfig 4. Generating a suitable Xorg configuration file nvidia-xconfig -o /etc/X11/xorg.conf I'm not trolling, not trying for a flame war here. If you like Unity, more power to you. If you like Ubuntu, OK, it has been good for me too. Your question was not perceived as trolling. I would like to point out that you can probably install a different desktop environment or window manager of your liking on Ubuntu as well and that you therefore don't necessarily need to install Debian. If you, however, decide to do so: Welcome and may you enjoy your stay! Further information on Debian can be found in the Debian Reference [3]. [1] See http://www.debian.org/releases/ for a short overview of stable, testing and unstable [2] http://pkg-dkms.alioth.debian.org/ [3] http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ [4] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=609278 -- .''`. Wolodja Wentlandwolodja.wentl...@ed.ac.uk : :' : `. `'` 4096R/CAF14EFC `- 081C B7CD FF04 2BA9 94EA 36B2 8B7F 7D30 CAF1 4EFC signature.asc Description: Digital signature The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
Re: transition from Ubuntu - Debian to avoid Unity Desktop?
On Monday 17 January 2011 12:33:25 T o n g wrote: On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 10:26:52 -0800, Mike Bird wrote: It is totally unsupported and may break everything but every time we've converted a system from Ubuntu to Debian in this way it has worked fine. Most important underlying requirement is the compatibility (e.g. glibc, etc). The convoluted Ubuntu versioning always makes my head spin. Does anyone have some kind of rule of thumb of which Ubuntu versions are compatible with Debian testing/sid? There isn't one. Compatibility with Debian is wonderful when it occurs, but it is not a goal of the Ubuntu release process / team. Mixing Debian and Ubuntu packages isn't supported by either set of developers; but if APT / DPkg doesn't complain about missing dependencies, you are most likely okay, especially if the libraries in the dependency chain have symbols files generated and shipped in their binary packages. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
