Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Nathanael Nerode [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of course, such bugs would probably be promptly marked 'wontfix' or 'helpwanted', so it wouldn't really do any good. :-/ Yes, it does do good. Among other things, other people might see them and fix them! It does happen. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
On Sun, Mar 21, 2004 at 02:08:36AM -0500, Lukas Geyer wrote: Well, at least the German translation could need some proofreading. [...] I have not checked back with the original, but I don't believe this translation is faithful to it... My thanks to you and Peter Palfrader for offering corrections to this and several other problems with the German translation via IRC. The updated version is available at: http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.de -- G. Branden Robinson|One man's theology is another man's Debian GNU/Linux |belly laugh. [EMAIL PROTECTED] |-- Robert Heinlein http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Nathanael Nerode [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of course, such bugs would probably be promptly marked 'wontfix' or 'helpwanted', so it wouldn't really do any good. :-/ Yes, it does do good. Among other things, other people might see them and fix them! It does happen.
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
On Sun, Mar 21, 2004 at 02:08:36AM -0500, Lukas Geyer wrote: Well, at least the German translation could need some proofreading. [...] I have not checked back with the original, but I don't believe this translation is faithful to it... My thanks to you and Peter Palfrader for offering corrections to this and several other problems with the German translation via IRC. The updated version is available at: http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.de -- G. Branden Robinson|One man's theology is another man's Debian GNU/Linux |belly laugh. [EMAIL PROTECTED] |-- Robert Heinlein http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have been told more than once by Debian developers (Christian Marillat is a prime offender) that this bug is now fixed in upstream, and had the bug closed then, even though no Debian package has been uploaded. That is a bug in the maintainer. Alas, Debian has no way to file bugs on the maintainer. This is a source of frequent frustration, not just for me, but for others too. I've even complained about this more than once on debian-devel, and been told to just get over it. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've even complained about this more than once on debian-devel, and been told to just get over it. You do have to learn to deal with group dynamics of any large social organization, yes. Ok, what is your suggestion to deal with the case? I have tried reopening the bug, but that works only for that bug. Is anyone going to tell Christian Marillat that it's not appropriate to close bugs just because upstream says we won't fix this? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
On 21 Mar 2004 11:47:03 -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've even complained about this more than once on debian-devel, and been told to just get over it. You do have to learn to deal with group dynamics of any large social organization, yes. Ok, what is your suggestion to deal with the case? I have tried Discuss it with the DPL. Bring the discussion over to debian-devel, tru to get other people involved in the discussion, perhaps that shall get the maintainer to change. Failing that, file a report with the tech ctte; this seems an open and shut case of things not to do with the bts reopening the bug, but that works only for that bug. Is anyone going to tell Christian Marillat that it's not appropriate to close bugs just because upstream says we won't fix this? The tech ctte can, if gentler means of persuasion fail. manoj -- I'd love to go out with you, but I did my own thing and now I've got to undo it. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have been told more than once by Debian developers (Christian Marillat is a prime offender) that this bug is now fixed in upstream, and had the bug closed then, even though no Debian package has been uploaded. That is a bug in the maintainer. Alas, Debian has no way to file bugs on the maintainer. This is a source of frequent frustration, not just for me, but for others too. Hmm -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$reportbug willy Please briefly describe your problem (you can elaborate in a moment; an empty response will stop reportbug). This should be a pithy summary of what is wrong with the package, for example, fails to send email or does not start with -q option specified. Does not fix patched RC bug in db3, and does not want NMU Of course, such bugs would probably be promptly marked 'wontfix' or 'helpwanted', so it wouldn't really do any good. :-/ I've even complained about this more than once on debian-devel, and been told to just get over it. Thomas -- Make sure your vote will count. http://www.verifiedvoting.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Branden Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.de Well, at least the German translation could need some proofreading. Just one example: Debian begeht Überfälle, offenbar überall; ich will diesen Prozess beschleunigen und Debian überall evangelisieren, wo ich kann. Translated back into English, this would approximately mean Debian commits robberies, apparently everywhere; I want to speed up this process and I want to bring the gospel to Debian wherever I can. I have not checked back with the original, but I don't believe this translation is faithful to it... Lukas
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 08:28:42PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Martin Michlmayr [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As I balance, I think we should make it clearer to bug submitters that they can re-open bugs and that feedback is encouraged. What about where a bug is closed by the maintainer on the mere hope that it has been fixed by upstream? I have been told more than once by Debian developers (Christian Marillat is a prime offender) that this bug is now fixed in upstream, and had the bug closed then, even though no Debian package has been uploaded. That is a bug in the maintainer. Or had a bug closed because upstream won't fix it. Or had a raft of bugs closed when a new upstream release happens, and when I ask: are you sure this is fixed, nothing in the changelog mentions it, I'm told that it's my responsibility to check and reopen the bug if it's still there. Likewise. -- - mdz
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have been told more than once by Debian developers (Christian Marillat is a prime offender) that this bug is now fixed in upstream, and had the bug closed then, even though no Debian package has been uploaded. That is a bug in the maintainer. Alas, Debian has no way to file bugs on the maintainer. This is a source of frequent frustration, not just for me, but for others too. I've even complained about this more than once on debian-devel, and been told to just get over it. Thomas
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
On 20 Mar 2004 23:45:49 -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have been told more than once by Debian developers (Christian Marillat is a prime offender) that this bug is now fixed in upstream, and had the bug closed then, even though no Debian package has been uploaded. That is a bug in the maintainer. Alas, Debian has no way to file bugs on the maintainer. This is a source of frequent frustration, not just for me, but for others too. Perhaps not formally, no. But, as in any social group, there are forums where individual issues can be raised in, and there is the tech ctte to appeal to as a last resort. I've even complained about this more than once on debian-devel, and been told to just get over it. You do have to learn to deal with group dynamics of any large social organization, yes. manoj -- Poetry, like chastity, can be carried to far. Mark Twain Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've even complained about this more than once on debian-devel, and been told to just get over it. You do have to learn to deal with group dynamics of any large social organization, yes. Ok, what is your suggestion to deal with the case? I have tried reopening the bug, but that works only for that bug. Is anyone going to tell Christian Marillat that it's not appropriate to close bugs just because upstream says we won't fix this?
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
On 21 Mar 2004 11:47:03 -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've even complained about this more than once on debian-devel, and been told to just get over it. You do have to learn to deal with group dynamics of any large social organization, yes. Ok, what is your suggestion to deal with the case? I have tried Discuss it with the DPL. Bring the discussion over to debian-devel, tru to get other people involved in the discussion, perhaps that shall get the maintainer to change. Failing that, file a report with the tech ctte; this seems an open and shut case of things not to do with the bts reopening the bug, but that works only for that bug. Is anyone going to tell Christian Marillat that it's not appropriate to close bugs just because upstream says we won't fix this? The tech ctte can, if gentler means of persuasion fail. manoj -- I'd love to go out with you, but I did my own thing and now I've got to undo it. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have been told more than once by Debian developers (Christian Marillat is a prime offender) that this bug is now fixed in upstream, and had the bug closed then, even though no Debian package has been uploaded. That is a bug in the maintainer. Alas, Debian has no way to file bugs on the maintainer. This is a source of frequent frustration, not just for me, but for others too. Hmm -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$reportbug willy Please briefly describe your problem (you can elaborate in a moment; an empty response will stop reportbug). This should be a pithy summary of what is wrong with the package, for example, fails to send email or does not start with -q option specified. Does not fix patched RC bug in db3, and does not want NMU Of course, such bugs would probably be promptly marked 'wontfix' or 'helpwanted', so it wouldn't really do any good. :-/ I've even complained about this more than once on debian-devel, and been told to just get over it. Thomas -- Make sure your vote will count. http://www.verifiedvoting.org/
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Martin Michlmayr [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As I balance, I think we should make it clearer to bug submitters that they can re-open bugs and that feedback is encouraged. What about where a bug is closed by the maintainer on the mere hope that it has been fixed by upstream? I have been told more than once by Debian developers (Christian Marillat is a prime offender) that this bug is now fixed in upstream, and had the bug closed then, even though no Debian package has been uploaded. Or had a bug closed because upstream won't fix it. Or had a raft of bugs closed when a new upstream release happens, and when I ask: are you sure this is fixed, nothing in the changelog mentions it, I'm told that it's my responsibility to check and reopen the bug if it's still there. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Branden Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.de Well, at least the German translation could need some proofreading. Just one example: Debian begeht Überfälle, offenbar überall; ich will diesen Prozess beschleunigen und Debian überall evangelisieren, wo ich kann. Translated back into English, this would approximately mean Debian commits robberies, apparently everywhere; I want to speed up this process and I want to bring the gospel to Debian wherever I can. I have not checked back with the original, but I don't believe this translation is faithful to it... Lukas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 08:28:42PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Martin Michlmayr [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As I balance, I think we should make it clearer to bug submitters that they can re-open bugs and that feedback is encouraged. What about where a bug is closed by the maintainer on the mere hope that it has been fixed by upstream? I have been told more than once by Debian developers (Christian Marillat is a prime offender) that this bug is now fixed in upstream, and had the bug closed then, even though no Debian package has been uploaded. That is a bug in the maintainer. Or had a bug closed because upstream won't fix it. Or had a raft of bugs closed when a new upstream release happens, and when I ask: are you sure this is fixed, nothing in the changelog mentions it, I'm told that it's my responsibility to check and reopen the bug if it's still there. Likewise. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
* Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2004-03-19 20:15]: In some completely different contexts, some people swear by the only person who can close a bug is the person who opened it in the first place. For example, http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog29.html (and search for that text). Do you [or Martin [or the tamagotchi]] have any thoughts on this? I agree in principle that it would be nice if bug submitters gave more feedback when a bug is closed and ideally confirm that the issue has indeed been resolved. However, I'm not sure we should make this a requirement. In a commercial environment with paid testers, they will usually test the fix and report whether it addresses the problem or not. In free software and Debian, a wide range of people submit bugs, and while some will confirm that an upload addresses their bug, others might not do so (or their email address might bounce, etc). So if we required bug submitters to confirm that the bug has been addresses, it should be taken as resolved if they don't confirm within 4 or 8 weeks. As I balance, I think we should make it clearer to bug submitters that they can re-open bugs and that feedback is encouraged. I'm also not entirely happy that bugs are closed even if the fix is not in stable or testing yet. Fortunately, Colin Watson has been working on version tracking which will allow the BTS to show in which version a bug has been fixed. He told me the system will go live RSN. -- Martin Michlmayr [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Hi folks, Since we're foregoing the rebuttals this year (and the debate, to my disappointment), I thought I'd offer this reference to translated versions of my platform. http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.de http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.es http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.fr http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.it ...and of course the English version. http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.en Unfortunately, the French translation is not complete. If someone is interested in finishing it, or providing a translation to another language, please contact me privately; I wouldn't consider this official Project work, and if you'd rather be spending your time translating debconf templates or fixing RC bugs, that would make me just as happy. :) -- G. Branden Robinson| Arguments, like men, are often Debian GNU/Linux | pretenders. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Plato http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Branden Robinson escribió: Hi folks, Since we're foregoing the rebuttals this year (and the debate, to my disappointment), I thought I'd offer this reference to translated versions of my platform. http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.de http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.es http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.fr http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.it ...and of course the English version. http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.en Unfortunately, the French translation is not complete. If someone is interested in finishing it, or providing a translation to another language, please contact me privately; I wouldn't consider this official Project work, and if you'd rather be spending your time translating debconf templates or fixing RC bugs, that would make me just as happy. :) I like the ideas I read in these pages. Regards. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 07:01:59PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.en One of the issues you emphasized has to do with the bug tracking system, and open communication. In some completely different contexts, some people swear by the only person who can close a bug is the person who opened it in the first place. For example, http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog29.html (and search for that text). Do you [or Martin [or the tamagotchi]] have any thoughts on this? In particular, how we might take advantage of what's good of that kind of system, without losing what's good about our own? [I have ideas of my own, of course, but I want to see how the candidates think.] Thanks, -- Raul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Hi folks, Since we're foregoing the rebuttals this year (and the debate, to my disappointment), I thought I'd offer this reference to translated versions of my platform. http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.de http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.es http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.fr http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.it ...and of course the English version. http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.en Unfortunately, the French translation is not complete. If someone is interested in finishing it, or providing a translation to another language, please contact me privately; I wouldn't consider this official Project work, and if you'd rather be spending your time translating debconf templates or fixing RC bugs, that would make me just as happy. :) -- G. Branden Robinson| Arguments, like men, are often Debian GNU/Linux | pretenders. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Plato http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
Branden Robinson escribió: Hi folks, Since we're foregoing the rebuttals this year (and the debate, to my disappointment), I thought I'd offer this reference to translated versions of my platform. http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.de http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.es http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.fr http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.it ...and of course the English version. http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.en Unfortunately, the French translation is not complete. If someone is interested in finishing it, or providing a translation to another language, please contact me privately; I wouldn't consider this official Project work, and if you'd rather be spending your time translating debconf templates or fixing RC bugs, that would make me just as happy. :) I like the ideas I read in these pages. Regards.
Re: Branden's Platform in German, Spanish, Italian, and (some) French
On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 07:01:59PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/campaign/2004/platform.xhtml.en One of the issues you emphasized has to do with the bug tracking system, and open communication. In some completely different contexts, some people swear by the only person who can close a bug is the person who opened it in the first place. For example, http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog29.html (and search for that text). Do you [or Martin [or the tamagotchi]] have any thoughts on this? In particular, how we might take advantage of what's good of that kind of system, without losing what's good about our own? [I have ideas of my own, of course, but I want to see how the candidates think.] Thanks, -- Raul
