Re: conversion to subversion -- Update to http://www.debian.org/devel/website/
Hi, On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 03:09:46PM +0100, Bas Zoetekouw wrote: Hi! Together with Raphaël Hertzog, I've been working on coverting the webwml repository to Subversion for a little while now. Although Subversion is not such a big improvement over CVS as we might have liked, other systems, like git, have certain disadvantages (which mainly have to do with the possibility of partial checkout, a steeper learning curve for translators, and the compatibility with the current scripts) that are hard to overcome at this time. In any case, i think moving to Subversion is an improvement. A testing repository is currently available at Alioth: * http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/webwml * svn://svn.debian.org/webwml/ * svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/svn/webwml Most of the people who have been working on the website should have write access already through the svn+ssh interface. Should not we need to update http://www.debian.org/devel/website/ too? Any reason why I am seeing old CVS info there. Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
Raphael Hertzog, 2008-05-13 12:05:07 +0200 : On Tue, 13 May 2008, MJ Ray wrote: Raphael Hertzog [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 08 May 2008, Josip Rodin wrote: Speaking of which, we have been getting a few requests via alioth - would it be possible for alioth to avoid using personal mails and instead mail webmaster@, or even [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, no, it mails all accounts listed as admin. Unless you create a fake admin account pointing to the list (which is not desirable IMO), there's no simple solution. It seems a shame if moving to alioth causes webwml administration to become less open and hidden from our users. If someone patches gforge 4.5 to add an attribute to a project for a debian-style admin (list as admin contact instead of direct mail to admin accounts), would that be applicable to alioth directly? Certainly. I believe so. I cced Roland who is upstream Gforge developer. But I'm not sure it's worth the effort really... people can always send the request to the mailing list and give their Alioth login and admins can add them directly. Nobody is forced to used the request to join web page. I think the feature could be useful in the general case too, but I'm not sure it's worth the coding and maintenance effort. It needs an extra field in the database, some UI to fill it and keep it up-to-date, in addition to the obvious send mail to this one address instead of that list of addresses. Roland. -- Roland Mas Why did the tachyon cross the road? Because it was on the other side. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
Raphael Hertzog [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 08 May 2008, Josip Rodin wrote: Speaking of which, we have been getting a few requests via alioth - would it be possible for alioth to avoid using personal mails and instead mail webmaster@, or even [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, no, it mails all accounts listed as admin. Unless you create a fake admin account pointing to the list (which is not desirable IMO), there's no simple solution. It seems a shame if moving to alioth causes webwml administration to become less open and hidden from our users. If someone patches gforge 4.5 to add an attribute to a project for a debian-style admin (list as admin contact instead of direct mail to admin accounts), would that be applicable to alioth directly? (I took a look at http://alioth.debian.org/projects/siteadmin/ but didn't find from that what GForge it is using and there's no source code posted there.) Regards, -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
On Tue, 13 May 2008, MJ Ray wrote: Raphael Hertzog [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 08 May 2008, Josip Rodin wrote: Speaking of which, we have been getting a few requests via alioth - would it be possible for alioth to avoid using personal mails and instead mail webmaster@, or even [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, no, it mails all accounts listed as admin. Unless you create a fake admin account pointing to the list (which is not desirable IMO), there's no simple solution. It seems a shame if moving to alioth causes webwml administration to become less open and hidden from our users. If someone patches gforge 4.5 to add an attribute to a project for a debian-style admin (list as admin contact instead of direct mail to admin accounts), would that be applicable to alioth directly? I believe so. I cced Roland who is upstream Gforge developer. But I'm not sure it's worth the effort really... people can always send the request to the mailing list and give their Alioth login and admins can add them directly. Nobody is forced to used the request to join web page. (I took a look at http://alioth.debian.org/projects/siteadmin/ but didn't find from that what GForge it is using and there's no source code posted there.) Everything important is in the wiki: http://wiki.debian.org/Alioth And you'll find a pointer to the bzr tree in use on Alioth. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Le best-seller français mis à jour pour Debian Etch : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
On Thu, 08 May 2008, Josip Rodin wrote: Yes, as far as I'm concerned, do feel free to make new provisions to people with existing cvs pserver accounts, assuming you can verify request authenticity (correlating alioth account with cvs account with e-mail of the person who sends you the request)? Speaking of which, we have been getting a few requests via alioth - would it be possible for alioth to avoid using personal mails and instead mail webmaster@, or even [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, no, it mails all accounts listed as admin. Unless you create a fake admin account pointing to the list (which is not desirable IMO), there's no simple solution. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Le best-seller français mis à jour pour Debian Etch : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
Josip Rodin pisze: On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 11:46:59PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 09:12:08AM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: check in gluck:/cvs/webwml/CVSROOT/passwd,v for accounts. You can find login information and email in the CVS log messages. Thanks to Joey who told me that. I'm not a webwml admin, but if nobody objects I can help approve all those accounts. (One the debwww members could also explicitely authorize me to process the pending requests that are legitimate) Yes, as far as I'm concerned, do feel free to make new provisions to people with existing cvs pserver accounts, assuming you can verify request authenticity (correlating alioth account with cvs account with e-mail of the person who sends you the request)? Speaking of which, we have been getting a few requests via alioth - would it be possible for alioth to avoid using personal mails and instead mail webmaster@, or even [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you say abaut it: I have currently webwml cvs write access, but I'm not a DD. I make only translations to Polish. What should I do? Regards Wojciech Zareba -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 09:12:08AM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: check in gluck:/cvs/webwml/CVSROOT/passwd,v for accounts. You can find login information and email in the CVS log messages. Thanks to Joey who told me that. I'm not a webwml admin, but if nobody objects I can help approve all those accounts. (One the debwww members could also explicitely authorize me to process the pending requests that are legitimate) Yes, as far as I'm concerned, do feel free to make new provisions to people with existing cvs pserver accounts, assuming you can verify request authenticity (correlating alioth account with cvs account with e-mail of the person who sends you the request)? -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 11:46:59PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 09:12:08AM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: check in gluck:/cvs/webwml/CVSROOT/passwd,v for accounts. You can find login information and email in the CVS log messages. Thanks to Joey who told me that. I'm not a webwml admin, but if nobody objects I can help approve all those accounts. (One the debwww members could also explicitely authorize me to process the pending requests that are legitimate) Yes, as far as I'm concerned, do feel free to make new provisions to people with existing cvs pserver accounts, assuming you can verify request authenticity (correlating alioth account with cvs account with e-mail of the person who sends you the request)? Speaking of which, we have been getting a few requests via alioth - would it be possible for alioth to avoid using personal mails and instead mail webmaster@, or even [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
On Friday 02 May 2008, Bas Zoetekouw wrote: You wrote: I've actually solved in in more or less the same way, with as main difference that in the final two steps of thw workflow are done automatically from a post-commit hook. This seems to work very well, for as far as I've been able to test it. Could you elaborate a bit on this? I'm not that familiar with post-commit hooks, but I'm having problems seeing how this would work. Well, the smart-update puts a placeholder in the header (where normally the revision number would be). In the post-commit hook, a script then checks out the files that were changed in the commit that triggered the run of the hook. It replaces the placeholder by the actual revision number (which is known at this time in the commit process), and creates a new commit of the same files. Nice, that sounds like a neat solution. It does seem to require that both the original and translations are committed at the same time. What happens if, for whatever reason, a translation with the placeholder is committed in a later commit than the original? Hmm. Looking at the script (only quickly and I'm not really fluent in Perl, so I may be horribly wrong here), it seems that a sanity check may be missing that verifies that if a file has the smartchange placeholder, the original (english) file has to be included in the same commit. I think if that is not the case (for every translated file that has the placeholder), a commit should probably be rejected. Cheers, FJP signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: conversion to subversion
Hi Frans! You wrote: I've actually solved in in more or less the same way, with as main difference that in the final two steps of thw workflow are done automatically from a post-commit hook. This seems to work very well, for as far as I've been able to test it. Could you elaborate a bit on this? I'm not that familiar with post-commit hooks, but I'm having problems seeing how this would work. Well, the smart-update puts a placeholder in the header (where normally the revision number would be). In the post-commit hook, a script then checks out the files that were changed in the commit that triggered the run of the hook. It replaces the placeholder by the actual revision number (which is known at this time in the commit process), and creates a new commit of the same files. The actual code might be somewhat clearer than my explanation, so I've put the actual postcommit script at http://www.zoetekouw.net/Zooi/posthook_smartchange.pl.txt Hope this makes things a bit clearer. Bas. -- Kind regards, Bas Zoetekouw. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Bas Zoetekouw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm working out the last kinks in the build process. I hope to get that done in the next few days. After that, we'll have to make sure all translators have access to the new repository, set a date for the actual move (will need to be coordinated with debian-admin, probably), and do the move. Thank you for the feedback. -- Sri Ramadoss M
Re: conversion to subversion
Bas Zoetekouw wrote: For the installation guide I've written a script that can update the revision in translation comments _after_ the commit. It takes the revision of the commit of the English file as only parameter and then works out, per file included in that commit, if the corresponding translation was up-to-date before the new commit and only then updates the translation comment. This does mean that the workflow changes a bit. It becomes: - use $tool (e.g. sed) to make the changes in the original and translations - check diffs - commit the original - run the script with the revision of that commit - commit the translations I've actually solved in in more or less the same way, with as main difference that in the final two steps of thw workflow are done automatically from a post-commit hook. This seems to work very well, for as far as I've been able to test it. Could you elaborate a bit on this? I'm not that familiar with post-commit hooks, but I'm having problems seeing how this would work. TIA, FJP signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: conversion to subversion
On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Bas Zoetekouw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Depending on how the testing goes, we'll set a date for the real transition later (probably in a few weeks). Hi, what is the current status? I am responsible for Tamil Language. -- Sri Ramadoss M
Re: conversion to subversion
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Raphael Hertzog [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, only DD have write access right now. All the non-DD who have access to the current CVS repository should ask to be added in the new Alioth group. I suggest using the Request to join feature: http://alioth.debian.org/project/request.php?group_id=1135 I have made the request a while back, my account at alioth amachu-guest I request the admin persons to approve. -- Sri Ramadoss M
Re: conversion to subversion
Hi ம.! You wrote: Depending on how the testing goes, we'll set a date for the real transition later (probably in a few weeks). what is the current status? I am responsible for Tamil Language. I'm working out the last kinks in the build process. I hope to get that done in the next few days. After that, we'll have to make sure all translators have access to the new repository, set a date for the actual move (will need to be coordinated with debian-admin, probably), and do the move. Bas. -- +--+ | Bas Zoetekouw | Sweet day, so cool, so calm, so bright, | || The bridall of the earth and skie: | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The dew shall weep thy fall tonight;| +|For thou must die. | +-+ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
Bas Zoetekouw: The blocking problem for the transition atm is the fact that to build the archive, the build script need to figure out how old a translation is (i.e., how many times the original file has changed since the last translation). I don't think that is really necessary. It was added because some translators originally wanted som leeway in doing translations a bit later, but it was later changed so that it always marks an outdated translation as outdated, no matter the number of revisions it is behind. The only procedure that checks the age (as expressed in number of days) is my script that auto-removes translations six months after the original page was modified. -- \\// Peter - http://www.softwolves.pp.se/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
Hi Frans! You wrote: For the installation guide I've written a script that can update the revision in translation comments _after_ the commit. It takes the revision of the commit of the English file as only parameter and then works out, per file included in that commit, if the corresponding translation was up-to-date before the new commit and only then updates the translation comment. This does mean that the workflow changes a bit. It becomes: - use $tool (e.g. sed) to make the changes in the original and translations - check diffs - commit the original - run the script with the revision of that commit - commit the translations I've actually solved in in more or less the same way, with as main difference that in the final two steps of thw workflow are done automatically from a post-commit hook. This seems to work very well, for as far as I've been able to test it. The blocking problem for the transition atm is the fact that to build the archive, the build script need to figure out how old a translation is (i.e., how many times the original file has changed since the last translation). The only way to so this with svn is using the logs, which ar enot available offline. So, surrently, the pages can only be built if an internet connection is available. I plan to solve this by keeping the necessary information (i.e., which files have changed in which revision) in a separate file. I'm not sure yet whether it can be a simple cache file (that is automatically updated when the user run svn update), or if it really need to be checked in teh repository (and be updated from a cronjob or a post-commit hook). I'll probably have more time to work on it next week, and hopefully get it all working. Bas. -- Kind regards, Bas Zoetekouw.
Re: conversion to subversion
Bas Zoetekouw wrote: I've been working on converting the perl scripts. Most of those are done, but I'm stil working on the smart_change.pl, touch_files.pl, and touch_translations.pl. Maybe I can help you a bit with smart_change.pl. The main problem here is updating the translation comments if an update is also done for all translations and those need to be unfuzzied to avoid needless work by translators. With CVS you can reasonably guess the next version you will get for the original file before the commit. But that does not work with SVN. For the installation guide I've written a script that can update the revision in translation comments _after_ the commit. It takes the revision of the commit of the English file as only parameter and then works out, per file included in that commit, if the corresponding translation was up-to-date before the new commit and only then updates the translation comment. This does mean that the workflow changes a bit. It becomes: - use $tool (e.g. sed) to make the changes in the original and translations - check diffs - commit the original - run the script with the revision of that commit - commit the translations The script I use for step 3 can be found here: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/d-i/trunk/manual/scripts/unfuzzy-xml?op=filerev=0sc=0 Hope this helps. Cheers, FJP P.S. I have not yet found the time/energy to try the SVN test repo :-( signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: conversion to subversion
Raphael Hertzog wrote: CVS is 320 Mb, svn is 800 Mb. And git is 406 mb including full history. (179 for the .git directory alone) Took about 30 hours for git-svn to pull it. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: conversion to subversion
Hi, On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Gerfried Fuchs wrote: Am Sonntag, den 23.03.2008, 15:09 +0100 schrieb Bas Zoetekouw: Together with Raphaël Hertzog, I've been working on coverting the webwml repository to Subversion for a little while now. How much in size does a subversion checkout increase compared to an cvs checkout? It's a bit more than double the size, right? CVS is 320 Mb, svn is 800 Mb. And since off-line operation is important to you, that's the price you pay to have an off-line diff. But you save quite a lot of time while reviewing your changes before committing them. But I have one specific question that I hope you can answer right ahead because you said you worked on all the scripts, too: Does translation-check still work as expected? That is, in connection with the mindelta/maxdelta messages? Does this also work offline or does it require to be online to be able to build a webpage? Any such meta-information can be updated daily through a cron script on Alioth and the result be stored in a real file within the repository so that it's readily available during the build and no net-access is needed. Furthermore, we could vastly improve the usefulness of mindelta/maxdelta if we decided to base it on percentage of original content that changed instead of on number of changes. And would PeterK's script to purge aged outdated pages be easily adaptable to that? I don't know this script but I don't see why not. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Le best-seller français mis à jour pour Debian Etch : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
Tommi Vainikainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Please, don't move from CVS to SVN and junk all the contributors and many of their tools for a minimal gain like tracking file moves. Consider moving to something which gives new useful features like distributed working directly, like git. I think best is to keep things simple. The reason why I do prefer Subversion to git is user interface and usability. [...] User interface is largely hidden by tools and this will probably require all user interfaces to be updated. Usability of a cvs-svn change is probably similar to usability of a cvs-git change, but without the possibility of git-cvsserver's emulation. I'm not sure how download sizes compare. Also by switching to Subversion, people can make their own choice: there is at least git-svn, bzr-svn, and hg-svn. I didn't find any of those installed on debian.org machines, nor svk, so is that only true if their own choice includes installing Subversion? How does one request additional packages on project machines? I didn't find that in devref. I'll try using rt.d.o. Ticket #572 Regards, -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tommi Vainikainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also by switching to Subversion, people can make their own choice: there is at least git-svn, bzr-svn, and hg-svn. I didn't find any of those installed on debian.org machines, nor svk, so is that only true if their own choice includes installing Subversion? Well, that was impressive DSA! git-svn is now available on gluck. Reportedly a more recent one is available on alioth if you have access to it. Regards, -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
Hi, On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Andrei Popescu wrote: Hello, I was able to checkout using my alioth id amp-guest, but can't commit (or just don't know how). I get ,[ ~/svn-webwml/trunk/webwml/english/consultants$ svn commit ] | Sendingconsultants/consultant.data | Transmitting file data .svn: Commit failed (details follow): | svn: Can't create directory '/svn/webwml/db/transactions/80721-1.txn': | Permission denied | svn: Your commit message was left in a temporary file: | svn:'/home/amp/svn-webwml/trunk/webwml/english/svn-commit.2.tmp' ` I can access alioth with ssh key or password. Well, only DD have write access right now. All the non-DD who have access to the current CVS repository should ask to be added in the new Alioth group. I suggest using the Request to join feature: http://alioth.debian.org/project/request.php?group_id=1135 Indicate in the comment the (pserver) login that you had to access the CVS repository maybe. All project admins (evo,joy,joey,kraai,djpig,treacy,csmall) will get a mail to approve you. Alternatively you can also simply request access by sending a mail here. I'm not a webwml admin, but if nobody objects I can help approve all those accounts. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Le best-seller français mis à jour pour Debian Etch : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 08:32:43AM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: Hi, On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Andrei Popescu wrote: Hello, I was able to checkout using my alioth id amp-guest, but can't commit (or just don't know how). I get ,[ ~/svn-webwml/trunk/webwml/english/consultants$ svn commit ] | Sendingconsultants/consultant.data | Transmitting file data .svn: Commit failed (details follow): | svn: Can't create directory '/svn/webwml/db/transactions/80721-1.txn': | Permission denied | svn: Your commit message was left in a temporary file: | svn:'/home/amp/svn-webwml/trunk/webwml/english/svn-commit.2.tmp' ` I can access alioth with ssh key or password. Well, only DD have write access right now. All the non-DD who have access to the current CVS repository should ask to be added in the new Alioth group. I suggest using the Request to join feature: http://alioth.debian.org/project/request.php?group_id=1135 Indicate in the comment the (pserver) login that you had to access the CVS repository maybe. Thanks, I just requested to join. Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: conversion to subversion
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Raphael Hertzog wrote: I can access alioth with ssh key or password. Well, only DD have write access right now. All the non-DD who have access to the current CVS repository should ask to be added in the new Alioth group. I suggest using the Request to join feature: http://alioth.debian.org/project/request.php?group_id=1135 Indicate in the comment the (pserver) login that you had to access the CVS repository maybe. All project admins (evo,joy,joey,kraai,djpig,treacy,csmall) will get a mail to approve you. Alternatively you can also simply request access by sending a mail here. For project admins (Cced) who would like to check if the request is legitimate, you can check in gluck:/cvs/webwml/CVSROOT/passwd,v for accounts. You can find login information and email in the CVS log messages. Thanks to Joey who told me that. I'm not a webwml admin, but if nobody objects I can help approve all those accounts. (One the debwww members could also explicitely authorize me to process the pending requests that are legitimate) Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Le best-seller français mis à jour pour Debian Etch : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Please, don't move from CVS to SVN and junk all the contributors and many of their tools for a minimal gain like tracking file moves. Consider moving to something which gives new useful features like distributed working directly, like git. I think best is to keep things simple. The reason why I do prefer Subversion to git is user interface and usability. Switching from CVS to Subversion keeps work flow same, commands same etc. but to use Git I need to understand much more and learn quite many new commands. If someone needs distributed advanced version control system, then Bazaar is way to go, because of the user interface is enough similar to CVS and Subversion. Also by switching to Subversion, people can make their own choice: there is at least git-svn, bzr-svn, and hg-svn. -- Tommi Vainikainen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
Tommi Vainikainen: Also by switching to Subversion, people can make their own choice: there is at least git-svn, bzr-svn, and hg-svn. True. If the infrastructural scripts can be modified to work with such a setup as well, and not require direct access to the Subversion data files (as they now require direct access to the CVS data files), that could indeed be an advantage. -- \\// Peter - http://www.softwolves.pp.se/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
Hi Peter! You wrote: Also by switching to Subversion, people can make their own choice: there is at least git-svn, bzr-svn, and hg-svn. True. If the infrastructural scripts can be modified to work with such a setup as well, and not require direct access to the Subversion data files (as they now require direct access to the CVS data files), that could indeed be an advantage. That shouldn't be a big problem. I've abstracted away all RCS interactions to a separate perl module, so it should be rather easy to customize that for (for example) a git-svn setup. Bas. -- +--+ | Bas Zoetekouw | Sweet day, so cool, so calm, so bright, | || The bridall of the earth and skie: | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The dew shall weep thy fall tonight;| +|For thou must die. | +-+ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
Hi! Am Sonntag, den 23.03.2008, 15:09 +0100 schrieb Bas Zoetekouw: Together with Raphaël Hertzog, I've been working on coverting the webwml repository to Subversion for a little while now. How much in size does a subversion checkout increase compared to an cvs checkout? It's a bit more than double the size, right? But I have one specific question that I hope you can answer right ahead because you said you worked on all the scripts, too: Does translation-check still work as expected? That is, in connection with the mindelta/maxdelta messages? Does this also work offline or does it require to be online to be able to build a webpage? And would PeterK's script to purge aged outdated pages be easily adaptable to that? So long, Rhonda signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil
Re: conversion to subversion
MJ Ray wrote: Please, don't move from CVS to SVN and junk all the contributors and many of their tools for a minimal gain like tracking file moves. Consider moving to something which gives new useful features like distributed working directly, like git. Getting rid of the last major (only?) remaining user of cvs.debian.org is a large benefit. This is the last CVS repository most of us have to deal with. It's slow. It's a special case both in using CVS and in not being on alioth. Running the CVS pserver on gluck is an added security exposure for Debian[1]. Bikeshedding over the VCS someone chooses to move to from CVS is, well, bikeshedding. -- see shy jo [1] Sadly an exposure alioth also currently has. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: conversion to subversion
On 11335 March 1977, MJ Ray wrote: What offline operation does svn have now? I thought it only worked offline properly with things like git-svn. svk. -- bye, Joerg towo Das Internet, jetzt auf 47 DVDs - oder auf 2 CDs in der jugenfreien Fassung? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
Bas Zoetekouw: Although Subversion is not such a big improvement over CVS as we might have liked, other systems, like git, have certain disadvantages (which mainly have to do with the possibility of partial checkout, a steeper learning curve for translators, and the compatibility with the current scripts) that are hard to overcome at this time. In any case, i think moving to Subversion is an improvement. And what are the gains from moving to Subversion? Besides tracking copies and having a globally unique revision history, I can't really see any gains as far as webwml is concerned. But feel free to enlighten me. Note that this is a scratch repository. It was converted from CVS a few weeks ago, so some wml files are out of date. Please make sure that if we decide to do a change, that the history is retained, as it is very important when it comes to the translations. Of course, since the translations are tied to the CVS history and its revision numbers, keeping that consistent after converting to any new format will be a pain (but it nevertheless needs to be addressed). -- \\// Peter - http://www.softwolves.pp.se/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
Hi Peter! You wrote: Although Subversion is not such a big improvement over CVS as we might have liked, other systems, like git, have certain disadvantages (which mainly have to do with the possibility of partial checkout, a steeper learning curve for translators, and the compatibility with the current scripts) that are hard to overcome at this time. In any case, i think moving to Subversion is an improvement. And what are the gains from moving to Subversion? Besides tracking copies and having a globally unique revision history, I can't really see any gains as far as webwml is concerned. But feel free to enlighten me. Better robustness, for one. While converting the CVS repository to svn, we found quite a few half-commited files and stuff like that. That shouldn't happen with subversion anymore. Furthermore, svn has a bit nicer offline operation than CVS (although it is nothing like git, of course), and it supports things like file moves (retaining chinge history). Also, subversion is actually actively maintained upstream. Note that this is a scratch repository. It was converted from CVS a few weeks ago, so some wml files are out of date. Please make sure that if we decide to do a change, that the history is retained, as it is very important when it comes to the translations. Of course, since the translations are tied to the CVS history and its revision numbers, keeping that consistent after converting to any new format will be a pain (but it nevertheless needs to be addressed). Obviously. Just take a look at the websvn, and you'll see that that's all taken care of. Bas. -- +--+ | Bas Zoetekouw | Sweet day, so cool, so calm, so bright, | || The bridall of the earth and skie: | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The dew shall weep thy fall tonight;| +|For thou must die. | +-+ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: conversion to subversion
On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 03:09:46PM +0100, Bas Zoetekouw wrote: A testing repository is currently available at Alioth: * http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/webwml * svn://svn.debian.org/webwml/ * svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/svn/webwml Most of the people who have been working on the website should have write access already through the svn+ssh interface. Note that this is a scratch repository. It was converted from CVS a few weeks ago, so some wml files are out of date. Feel free to try it out and commit stuff there, but keep in mind that ALL CHANGES WILL BE LOST when we make the transition for real. Hello, I was able to checkout using my alioth id amp-guest, but can't commit (or just don't know how). I get ,[ ~/svn-webwml/trunk/webwml/english/consultants$ svn commit ] | Sendingconsultants/consultant.data | Transmitting file data .svn: Commit failed (details follow): | svn: Can't create directory '/svn/webwml/db/transactions/80721-1.txn': | Permission denied | svn: Your commit message was left in a temporary file: | svn:'/home/amp/svn-webwml/trunk/webwml/english/svn-commit.2.tmp' ` I can access alioth with ssh key or password. Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
conversion to subversion
Hi! Together with Raphaël Hertzog, I've been working on coverting the webwml repository to Subversion for a little while now. Although Subversion is not such a big improvement over CVS as we might have liked, other systems, like git, have certain disadvantages (which mainly have to do with the possibility of partial checkout, a steeper learning curve for translators, and the compatibility with the current scripts) that are hard to overcome at this time. In any case, i think moving to Subversion is an improvement. A testing repository is currently available at Alioth: * http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/webwml * svn://svn.debian.org/webwml/ * svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/svn/webwml Most of the people who have been working on the website should have write access already through the svn+ssh interface. Note that this is a scratch repository. It was converted from CVS a few weeks ago, so some wml files are out of date. Feel free to try it out and commit stuff there, but keep in mind that ALL CHANGES WILL BE LOST when we make the transition for real. I've been working on converting the perl scripts. Most of those are done, but I'm stil working on the smart_change.pl, touch_files.pl, and touch_translations.pl. Please test any of the other scripts you're familiar with! Some have been rewritten for scratch almost, and I'm not entirely sure if all functionality that was there in the previous versions, is still present and functional. Please let me know if you find a bug, or would like to have some functionality added. One other thing I haven't tested yet, is hte actual building of the website. I wouldn't be altogether surprised if some of the wml files and embedded perl script depend on accessing CVS/Entries or something like that in order to build correctly. Please let me know if you find such a case. Depending on how the testing goes, we'll set a date for the real transition later (probably in a few weeks). Happy testing! Bas. -- ++ | Bas Zoetekouw | GPG key: 0644fab7 | || Fingerprint: c1f5 f24c d514 3fec 8bf6 | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | a2b1 2bae e41f 0644 fab7 | ++ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
