Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF records

2004-06-28 Thread R. Scott Perry

We receive a lot of spam that looks like it's coming from our own domain 
(which it really isn't).

If I set up an SPF record for my own domain ( todhunter.com)  and upgrade 
to the latest Declude beta, enable the SPF test, etc, will Declude nab 
spam that is sent to my domain, with a spoofed sender addresss, from my domain?
Yes, it will.  :)
   -Scott
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Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-11 Thread Matt




Markus,

I wouldn't say "only" in the case of SPFFAIL as there are other
situations that might warrant different use. I believe that you are
dead on as far as SPFPASS goes though.

One thing of note is why I choose not to implement SPF at this time.
Because I don't have control over how my customers use their E-mail,
i.e. what server they send it through, and because many don't send it
through mine, including everyone who's ISP has blocked port 25
outbound, the only type of record that I could use that would be of any
value to others would be "?all", meaning that E-mail from my domains
can come from anywhere (and it most certainly can of course).

Some might say that knowing "+a and +mx" are useful, however if you
don't apply negative weights for passing these, as you shouldn't, then
there is hardly any value to adding those records if you are going to
have a "?all". If I was however to restrict the record to "-all",
figuring that 99% of my clients send from the optimal A or MX IP, I
would then be opening up my other customers to the will of any
administrator in choosing how they handle a SPFFAIL result. It has
been suggested around here by at least two people that this should
constitute a Hold. So for now, without SPF configured, I'm not
subjecting my clients to the whim of other administrators, especially
when many of them are blocked on port 25 and unknowingly use mail forms
that use their own E-mail address as the sender.

Matt



Markus Gufler wrote:

  
  
  
No,  it's  not  completely useless. Even if you can't query 
_your own_ SPF  record  unless  it's  set to accept wildcard 
sending IPs--and you can't  use  WHITELIST  AUTH  for  those  
IPs--you can still publish an internal  DNS zone for your 
domain that doesn't contain an SPF record, while  publishing 
a more restrictive policy in your public DNS record.

  
  
Ok. Interesting to know.
Why I can't see anything about this on the SPF homepage or anywhere else?

In my opinion this are very important informations for anyone who want's to
set up SPF-Checks and SPF-Records.

So: 
Use SPFFAIL only 
with Imail v8+ and enabled SMTP-AUTH whitelisting
or with whitelisting of internal IP's from whitch your users/customers
connect from.
or set up private SPF-Records visible only for your own MTA.

In additon: 
Don't use SPFPASS because - as usual - Spammers are much faster then most
Mail-Admins.

Correct?


  
  
In  order to deploy SPF, you definitely need to have a 
consistent idea of  which sessions deserve elevated 
privileges in theory--and which of those sessions you can 
detect in practice.

  
  
And so anyone should make his own understanding without a discussion on this
list?
Maybe great part of all who are running SPF tests doesn't know about this
special "issues".

Keep in mind that the defensive effect of SPF-Records can only be as good as
the reliability of SPFFAIL on remote MTA's side. Or in other words: My
SPF-Records are pretty useless if other Admins score SPFFAIL very low
because they can see too much wrong results for this test.

Markus




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RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-11 Thread Markus Gufler


   One thing of note is why I choose not to implement SPF at this time.
Because I don't have control over how my customers use their E-mail, i.e.
what server they send it through, and because many don't send it through
mine, including everyone who's ISP has blocked port 25 outbound, the only
type of record that I could use that would be of any value to others would
be ?all, meaning that E-mail from my domains can come from anywhere (and
it most certainly can of course).

Same problem here. 
For statistical research we keep record of incoming/outgoing # of messages
and bytes for every separate domain.
So I intended to create a daily script that add or removes SPF TXT records
for every local domain that has send at least one message in the last 7 days
trough our server. 

But:
Private DNS zones or upgrade to Imail v8
Script to add/remove SPF records
And this all for actualy less then 3% of all incoming messages...

Markus



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RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-05 Thread Markus Gufler

  SPFPASS spf passx   -5  0
  SPFFAIL spf failx   8   0


Last month I've created SPF TXT records for some domains on our DNS.
Some days ago I've added this two tests and now I can see not realy good
results.

Based on 9914 processed messages from yesterday

SPFFAIL has had 38 correct results and 105 wrong results.
SPFPASS has had 234 correct results and 80 wrong results.

So only 4% of all processed messages has had ANY result. From this results
60 was correct and 40% wrong.

Am I missing something? 
I know that not many domains has already SPF TXT records but introducing
such a technology should produce bether results, or?

Markus


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Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-05 Thread Dave Doherty
To be clear, it is a TXT record you will add, not an A record.

-Dave

- Original Message - 
From: Steinar Rasch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:29 AM
Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF


  Where do I actually add the TXT Record for my domain, on my
  own server or at
  http://spf.pobox.com?
 
  Your own server.  So if your domain is example.com, you
  would change your
  DNS servers to add an A record for example.com of v=spf1 +mx
  -all (or
  whatever string the wizard gives you).


 I am not running my own DNS Servers. My ISP will have to add an A record
for
 me, correct?


 Steinar

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 av Epost.no med Declude og FRISK F-Prot Software.

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RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-05 Thread Markus Gufler

No one else seeing such results with SPF?

Markus



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Markus Gufler
 Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:32 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF
 
 
   SPFPASS spf passx   -5  0
   SPFFAIL spf failx   8   0
 
 
 Last month I've created SPF TXT records for some domains on our DNS.
 Some days ago I've added this two tests and now I can see not 
 realy good results.
 
 Based on 9914 processed messages from yesterday
 
 SPFFAIL has had 38 correct results and 105 wrong results.
 SPFPASS has had 234 correct results and 80 wrong results.
 
 So only 4% of all processed messages has had ANY result. From 
 this results 60 was correct and 40% wrong.
 
 Am I missing something? 
 I know that not many domains has already SPF TXT records but 
 introducing such a technology should produce bether results, or?
 
 Markus
 
 
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RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-05 Thread Kevin Bilbee
What do you consider a wrong result


Kevin Bilbee

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Markus Gufler
 Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:11 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF
 
 
 
 No one else seeing such results with SPF?
 
 Markus
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Markus Gufler
  Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:32 AM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF
  
  
SPFPASS spf passx   -5  0
SPFFAIL spf failx   8   0
  
  
  Last month I've created SPF TXT records for some domains on our DNS.
  Some days ago I've added this two tests and now I can see not 
  realy good results.
  
  Based on 9914 processed messages from yesterday
  
  SPFFAIL has had 38 correct results and 105 wrong results.
  SPFPASS has had 234 correct results and 80 wrong results.
  
  So only 4% of all processed messages has had ANY result. From 
  this results 60 was correct and 40% wrong.
  
  Am I missing something? 
  I know that not many domains has already SPF TXT records but 
  introducing such a technology should produce bether results, or?
  
  Markus
  
  
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RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-05 Thread Scott Fisher
For me:
spffail 0.89% of May's mail
spfpass 1.18% of May's mail

for spffail:
221 SPAM (weight 33)  99.1% (pretty good test)
2 NotSpam (weight 17)

for spfpass
43 SPAM ( weight 33)
1 Possible SPAM (weight 17-33)
249 Not Spam ( weight 17)(85%, poor to average test)

Scott Fisher
Director of IT
Farm Progress Companies

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/05/04 02:11PM 

No one else seeing such results with SPF?

Markus



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Markus Gufler
 Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:32 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF
 
 
   SPFPASS spf passx   -5  0
   SPFFAIL spf failx   8   0
 
 
 Last month I've created SPF TXT records for some domains on our DNS.
 Some days ago I've added this two tests and now I can see not 
 realy good results.
 
 Based on 9914 processed messages from yesterday
 
 SPFFAIL has had 38 correct results and 105 wrong results.
 SPFPASS has had 234 correct results and 80 wrong results.
 
 So only 4% of all processed messages has had ANY result. From 
 this results 60 was correct and 40% wrong.
 
 Am I missing something? 
 I know that not many domains has already SPF TXT records but 
 introducing such a technology should produce bether results, or?
 
 Markus
 
 
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RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-05 Thread Markus Gufler

 What do you consider a wrong result

If SPFPASS has a positive result (and so will SUBSTRACT points from the
final weight) for a SPAM message.

or

If SPFFAIL has a positive result (and so will ADD points to the final
weight) for a LEGIT message.


In absolute numbers the wrong results are not more then other tests has.
But this other tests has many many more correct results and so this tests
become usefull. SPFPASS and SPFFAIL on my system has 60% of correct and
40% of wrong results. Either I am missing something or this tests are
useless.


Markus





 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of 
 Markus Gufler
  Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:11 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF
  
  
  
  No one else seeing such results with SPF?
  
  Markus
  
  
  
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Markus 
   Gufler
   Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:32 AM
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF
   
   
 SPFPASS spf passx   -5  0
 SPFFAIL spf failx   8   0
   
   
   Last month I've created SPF TXT records for some domains 
 on our DNS.
   Some days ago I've added this two tests and now I can see 
 not realy 
   good results.
   
   Based on 9914 processed messages from yesterday
   
   SPFFAIL has had 38 correct results and 105 wrong results.
   SPFPASS has had 234 correct results and 80 wrong results.
   
   So only 4% of all processed messages has had ANY result. 
 From this 
   results 60 was correct and 40% wrong.
   
   Am I missing something? 
   I know that not many domains has already SPF TXT records but 
   introducing such a technology should produce bether results, or?
   
   Markus
   
   
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RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-05 Thread Kevin Bilbee
I think you may not be understanding the test.

The spf record that determines weather or not the messages passes or fails
is published by the domain owner and they are saying if they allow mail to
be send from what servers. So if a message fails the domain owner is saying
it has failed an the user sending the mail is in violation of their mail
sending policies.

It is not a fault of the test it is a fault of the person who setup the SPF
record for the domain.
Basically the SPF test enforces someone elses policies.

My results so far have been that all messages that have failed SPF have also
faild multiple DNS based tests.

Kevin Bilbee


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Markus Gufler
 Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:44 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF



  What do you consider a wrong result

 If SPFPASS has a positive result (and so will SUBSTRACT points from the
 final weight) for a SPAM message.

 or

 If SPFFAIL has a positive result (and so will ADD points to the final
 weight) for a LEGIT message.


 In absolute numbers the wrong results are not more then other tests has.
 But this other tests has many many more correct results and so
 this tests
 become usefull. SPFPASS and SPFFAIL on my system has 60% of correct and
 40% of wrong results. Either I am missing something or this tests are
 useless.


 Markus





 
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
  Markus Gufler
   Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:11 PM
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF
  
  
  
   No one else seeing such results with SPF?
  
   Markus
  
  
  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Markus
Gufler
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:32 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF
   
   
  SPFPASS spf passx   -5  0
  SPFFAIL spf failx   8   0
   
   
Last month I've created SPF TXT records for some domains
  on our DNS.
Some days ago I've added this two tests and now I can see
  not realy
good results.
   
Based on 9914 processed messages from yesterday
   
SPFFAIL has had 38 correct results and 105 wrong results.
SPFPASS has had 234 correct results and 80 wrong results.
   
So only 4% of all processed messages has had ANY result.
  From this
results 60 was correct and 40% wrong.
   
Am I missing something?
I know that not many domains has already SPF TXT records but
introducing such a technology should produce bether results, or?
   
Markus
   
   
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Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-05 Thread Matt




It's a bad idea to use SPFPASS. Spammers are already exploiting this
and there is no way to stop them from doing so. Essentially SPF Pass
is a hole in spam blocking just like Habeas is.

SPF Fail should in theory give you similar results to SPAMDOMAINS,
though it's not very widely adopted at present so the hits should be
lower. The authors of the standard have released a recommendation for
how to solve the issue of forged addresses from legitimate senders
(such as some greeting card sites, mail forms and the like), as well as
how to handle forwarding so as to not trip the test. At present though
there is no support for the forwarding arrangement, and it seems that
it will be close to impossible to fix the issues with things like mail
forms, though progress has been made.

Note that I don't use SPF because I don't see much value to it on my
system. If I didn't have things like SPAMDOMAINS, Sniffer, and a heap
of custom filters primarily targeted at zombie spam, this would be more
useful, however at this time I don't have a problem with zombie spam
getting through and this test would likely just cause more false
positives, especially when domains like aol.com are in both my
SPAMDOMAINS file and making use of SPF records.

Matt



Markus Gufler wrote:

  
What do you consider a wrong result

  
  
If SPFPASS has a positive result (and so will SUBSTRACT points from the
final weight) for a SPAM message.

or

If SPFFAIL has a positive result (and so will ADD points to the final
weight) for a LEGIT message.


In absolute numbers the "wrong results" are not more then other tests has.
But this other tests has many many more "correct results" and so this tests
become usefull. SPFPASS and SPFFAIL on my system has 60% of "correct" and
40% of wrong results. Either I am missing something or this tests are
useless.


Markus





  
  

  -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of 
  

Markus Gufler


  Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:11 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF



No one else seeing such results with SPF?

Markus



  
  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Markus 
Gufler
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:32 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF




   SPFPASS spf passx   -5  0
 SPFFAIL spf failx   8   0
  


Last month I've created SPF TXT records for some domains 

  

on our DNS.


  
Some days ago I've added this two tests and now I can see 

  

not realy 


  
good results.

Based on 9914 processed messages from yesterday

SPFFAIL has had 38 correct results and 105 wrong results.
SPFPASS has had 234 correct results and 80 wrong results.

So only 4% of all processed messages has had ANY result. 

  

From this 


  
results 60 was correct and 40% wrong.

Am I missing something? 
I know that not many domains has already SPF TXT records but 
introducing such a technology should produce bether results, or?

Markus


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and type 


  
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RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-05 Thread Markus Gufler

Ok, thanks for your responses. 

Another question:
If I set up the SPF TXT record for certain customer domains on our DNS
Server. Legit messages should be comming only from our Mailservers IP.

Now one of our customers send a legit message trough our mailserver.
Wouldn't this create a wrong result for SPFFAIL? 
Do I have to whitelist all local users in order to avoid false positives.

Markus



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RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-05 Thread Kevin Bilbee
User the WHITELIST AUTH global.cfg setting. all authenticated users will
automaticallbe whitelisted.


Kevin Bilbee

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Markus Gufler
 Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:39 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF



 Ok, thanks for your responses.

 Another question:
 If I set up the SPF TXT record for certain customer domains on our DNS
 Server. Legit messages should be comming only from our Mailservers IP.

 Now one of our customers send a legit message trough our mailserver.
 Wouldn't this create a wrong result for SPFFAIL?
 Do I have to whitelist all local users in order to avoid false positives.

 Markus



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RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-04 Thread Steinar Rasch
 Where do I actually add the TXT Record for my domain, on my 
 own server or at
 http://spf.pobox.com?
 
 Your own server.  So if your domain is example.com, you 
 would change your 
 DNS servers to add an A record for example.com of v=spf1 +mx 
 -all (or 
 whatever string the wizard gives you).


I am not running my own DNS Servers. My ISP will have to add an A record for
me, correct?


Steinar

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RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-04 Thread R. Scott Perry

I am not running my own DNS Servers. My ISP will have to add an A record for
me, correct?
Whoever handles your DNS would need to add the TXT record.  Depending on 
that situation, that could be you, your Internet provider, or a company 
that the DNS has been outsourced to.

   -Scott
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Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-03 Thread R. Scott Perry

Is there a tutorial available to set up SPF with Declude?
Do I also have to set up records at spf.pobox.com for this to work?
I have look at the wizard, but I am not quite certain as of how to set up my
domain correctly.
There are two separate pieces:
[1] Setting up your domain with an SPF record.  To do this, all you need to 
do is add a TXT record for your domain.  If your domain is example.com, and 
you want to say that E-mail from @example.com should only come from an IP 
in the MX record of example.com, you would add a TXT record for example.com 
of v=spf1 +mx -all.  You can use the wizard to help you generate the 
correct SPF string.

[2] Using SPF to help detect spam.  To do this, you can use the latest beta 
of Declude JunkMail, and add the following lines to your 
\IMail\Declude\global.cfg file:

SPFPASS spf passx   -5  0
SPFFAIL spf failx   8   0
   -Scott
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RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude and SPF

2004-05-03 Thread Steinar Rasch
Hi again, Scott!

I really appreciate your help!

The following part I can manage:

 [2] Using SPF to help detect spam.  To do this, you can use 
 the latest beta 
 of Declude JunkMail, and add the following lines to your 
 \IMail\Declude\global.cfg file:
 
  SPFPASS spf passx   -5  0
  SPFFAIL spf failx   8   0

But this part I do not quite understand. Can you give it to me with a
teaspoon? :-)

 [1] Setting up your domain with an SPF record.  To do this, 
 all you need to 
 do is add a TXT record for your domain.  If your domain is 
 example.com, and 
 you want to say that E-mail from @example.com should only 
 come from an IP 
 in the MX record of example.com, you would add a TXT record 
 for example.com 
 of v=spf1 +mx -all.  You can use the wizard to help you 
 generate the 
 correct SPF string.

Where do I actually add the TXT Record for my domain, on my own server or at
http://spf.pobox.com?

Sorry,
Steinar

 
 
 -Scott
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