Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
Ronald S. Bultje wrote: - for every cvs up of gstreamer, my totem (or any app) still takes 10s to startup with no visual feedback This is plugin registration, right? Is it possible for distributors to trigger plugin registration as part of their package post-install scripts, or is every user of a system required to go through this after installing updates? James. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
Hi, On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 16:18 +0800, James Henstridge wrote: Ronald S. Bultje wrote: - for every cvs up of gstreamer, my totem (or any app) still takes 10s to startup with no visual feedback This is plugin registration, right? Is it possible for distributors to trigger plugin registration as part of their package post-install scripts, or is every user of a system required to go through this after installing updates? When GStreamer 0.10 starts, it recursively scans the directories in your plugins path for changes. Normally this is just $prefix/lib/gstreamer-0.10, so just one directory, they're all plugins, the disk activity isn't too bad. Depending on your machine it might take a couple seconds to get everything registered. I'd be very surprised if it took 10 seconds to register an installed GStreamer. Running from CVS is another question, because then it has to scan a very deep directory structure. This takes considerably more time. Maybe 4 seconds on my box. This price is only paid by developers working from their uninstalled copies, though. There is no way to manually rebuild the registry in 0.10, so no more post-installation hooks are needed in distro packages. Regards, -- Andy Wingo http://wingolog.org/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
Hi me, On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 10:04 +0100, Andy Wingo wrote: Depending on your machine it might take a couple seconds to get everything registered. Hm, I should clarify before the flames arrive: in the normal case, when the mtimes of the plugins haven't changed, and the set of plugins didn't change, then the registry is not rebuilt. So the normal case is that the user perceives no delay when starting their program. Ciao, -- Andy Wingo http://wingolog.org/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New panel logout/shutdown alert - a mini ui review
On 10 Feb, 2006, at 8:56 PM, Vincent Untz wrote: Le jeudi 09 février 2006 à 07:46 -0500, Matthias Clasen a écrit : ... - The button order in the Shutdown dialog is a bit odd. Why is Cancel in the middle between Shutdown and Reboot ? I tend to agree here. Maybe we should not follow the HIG in this case since the menu item means: shutdown or reboot?. ... Restarting should be much less common than shutting down, so it's fine for Restart to be an alternative button to the left of Cancel. (Another factor is that Restart is only a shortcut, equivalent to Shut Down + start up again.) If you do need to restart nearly as often as shutting down, either you're switching kernels/OSes much more often than the average joe, or your OS badly needs fixing. :-) -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
On Thu, 2006-02-09 at 15:58 +0800, Davyd Madeley wrote: I'd like to wait for 2.16 for gnome-power-manager. It looks great, but it doesn't look integrated enough to me, yet. Do we need to rush to accept a module in the desktop set? I don't think so. Many distributions will use it anyway. We should only accept it when we think it's ready for GNOME. (Note that it happened for quite a few modules in the past to have to wait a few release cycles before being integrated) Let's let vendors decide. This module could do with both UI and technical review. The persistant use of the notification area, the number of popup bubbles (see above comments on popup spam) and several other issues I noted, but have now forgotten are all worth considering before we bless this module. Either is good (for me as maintainer). A comment about the notification spam: the user only gets 4 notifications for low battery, very low battery and critical battery and one saying I'm doing the low-power action in 10 seconds -- and then there are a 2 optional notifications (i.e. that you can turn off in gconf) for things like notification when you remove the ac_adapter, or when the battery reaches 100%. There's been quite some cleanup-of-late in CVS, so please checkout a fresh CVS if you think the code needed some re-organisation (or love) then please comment if you think something should be done better. There's lots of stuff in bugzilla [1] of stuff in flux, like the HAL restart organisation, and the suspend notification and/or resume registration for applications, so I can understand it you think that it's not quite ready I guess if g-p-m is not a blessed module, then the string and UI freeze no longer applies -- or is the decision not yet made? Richard. [1] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?product=gnome-power-managerbug_status=UNCONFIRMEDbug_status=NEWbug_status=ASSIGNEDbug_status=REOPENED ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New panel logout/shutdown alert - a mini ui review
Also, it's an accessibility violation to have anything involving user-response that's timeout-based (unless the timeout is configurable). This adds an additional (necessary) complication to auto-dismiss dialogs and the like, which may swing the cost/benefit balance away from their favor. Would it be okay to disable the countdown if accessibility is enabled? Not really, because, accessibility should always be enabled :-) The gconf key /desktop/gnome/interface/accessibility actually means assistive technology support which is a different, more specific thing. A user doesn't need to be a user of assistive technology in order to have different timing needs. Anyhow, the less stuff we make special to accessibility, the better. If something really requires a timeout, then the timeout should be configurable. In many cases, the better solution is not to use a timeout at all. Bill Vincent ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
Hi Richard, On Fri, February 10, 2006 13:27, Richard Hughes wrote: I guess if g-p-m is not a blessed module, then the string and UI freeze no longer applies -- or is the decision not yet made? No decision taken for now: the release team will meet in ~4 hours ;-) Oh, and thanks for working on g-p-m: power management is really important for laptop users. And I'm a laptop user :-) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 12:27:34PM +, Richard Hughes wrote: A comment about the notification spam: the user only gets 4 notifications for low battery, very low battery and critical battery and one saying I'm doing the low-power action in 10 seconds -- and then there are a 2 optional notifications (i.e. that you can turn off in gconf) for things like notification when you remove the ac_adapter, or when the battery reaches 100%. This is exactly what I mean by notification spam. I hope to get some clarification on what is good notification and bad notification that is suitable for the HIG shortly. I am proposing that gnome-power-manager has no notification UI, and instead consists of the daemon and the capplet. This doesn't quite deal with edge cases like your mouse battery going flat or your UPS going flat: however these are events that do not occur often. It would probably make sense in those events to place a notification icon in the system tray and a single bubble informing the user that their device is about to lose power. If users want to get a dialog of the power status for all of their devices we should offer this functionality somewhere else, perhaps in the power management properties (Mouse Power: Good/UPS Power: Good, 14 minutes). This way we avoid the notification spam and keep most of our notification passive. --d -- Davyd Madeley http://www.davyd.id.au/ 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New panel logout/shutdown alert - a mini ui review
Hi ! In many cases, the better solution is not to use a timeout at all. Just a small suggestion : what about * keeping an internal countdown (eg 2 minutes), without showing it in the dialog ; * when the time is out, either run a password-locked screensaver, ordo what is necessary so that clicking on Cancel (or anything that will imply staying inside the session) will need the password of the currently logged user. Clicking on Log Out, Shut Down, etc., will not. That way : 1) if the user forgets to confirm his logout, his session can't be stole by someone else (except within these 2 minutes) and 2) the user won't be fightened by any shown countdown. Cheers, Manu ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 13:38 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Hi Richard, On Fri, February 10, 2006 13:27, Richard Hughes wrote: I guess if g-p-m is not a blessed module, then the string and UI freeze no longer applies -- or is the decision not yet made? No decision taken for now: the release team will meet in ~4 hours ;-) Oh, and thanks for working on g-p-m: power management is really important for laptop users. And I'm a laptop user :-) Thanks -- I think we are *getting* there to the situation where things just work -- no matter what the arch or the distro. Richard. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 20:41 +0800, Davyd Madeley wrote: If users want to get a dialog of the power status for all of their devices we should offer this functionality somewhere else, perhaps in the power management properties (Mouse Power: Good/UPS Power: Good, 14 minutes). I'm not sure the average user wants things dumbed down to this extent by default. This way we avoid the notification spam and keep most of our notification passive. What about if the notifications for low battery were just configurable (we can argue about the defaults later :-) so that you only get the last I'm dying! type notification -- the tooltip icon already changes it's icon and tooltip for all the events. Bear in mind, feedback from users has been positive about the notifications -- I've not had one complaint or bugzilla. And wow, people have been pretty picky about lots of other stuff. :-) Richard. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New panel logout/shutdown alert - a mini ui review
On 10 Feb 2006, at 12:31, Bill Haneman wrote: Anyhow, the less stuff we make special to accessibility, the better. If something really requires a timeout, then the timeout should be configurable. In many cases, the better solution is not to use a timeout at all. Just to play devil's advocate, does something as long as 2 minutes (I forget if that's how long it is in GNOME, but it is in OS X) really count as a timeout in the conventional sense? It's fairly obvious why things that disappear after a second or two are bad for accessibility, but if it takes any user 2 minutes to read and react to what should be a reasonably simple alert box, then we're failing them big time anyway, and we have more important accessibility issues to address to put that right. (I guess there's always the scenario where the user might return to their keyboard to find their cat has triggered the shutdown and there's only 5 seconds left to cancel it, but at that point it's a race against time for any user-- the 5 second threshold may just be a bit more or less depending on how they have to read and react to the dialog.) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New panel logout/shutdown alert - a mini ui review
On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 12:54, Calum Benson wrote: On 10 Feb 2006, at 12:31, Bill Haneman wrote: Anyhow, the less stuff we make special to accessibility, the better. If something really requires a timeout, then the timeout should be configurable. In many cases, the better solution is not to use a timeout at all. Just to play devil's advocate, does something as long as 2 minutes (I forget if that's how long it is in GNOME, but it is in OS X) really count as a timeout in the conventional sense? Cheeri, Calum. Hi Calum: I accept your logic from a commonsense approach; my hunch is that any timeout longer than 1 minute is probably not a major accessibility problem (though I may be missing some important user scenario here). HOWEVER, the legal requirements for accessibility, at least in the US, don't make that distinction, and thus any distro that wanted to meet accessibility regulations would probably be obliged to patch the feature out. regards Bill ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New panel logout/shutdown alert - a mini ui review
Another idea to reduce the anciety issue would be to start counting in larger increments, say 10 seconds, and only switch to per-second updates for the last 20 seconds or so. Matthias ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
Hi Davyd, Davyd Madeley wrote: On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 12:27:34PM +, Richard Hughes wrote: A comment about the notification spam: the user only gets 4 notifications for low battery, very low battery and critical battery and one saying I'm doing the low-power action in 10 seconds -- and then there are a 2 optional notifications (i.e. that you can turn off in gconf) for things like notification when you remove the ac_adapter, or when the battery reaches 100%. This is exactly what I mean by notification spam. I hope to get some clarification on what is good notification and bad notification that is suitable for the HIG shortly. In my opinion this is possibly the most clear cut and legitimate case for using notifications. I think a message that essentially says that your computer will run out of gas in 2 minutes is hardly notification spam. Jon ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 09:19:48AM -0500, William Jon McCann wrote: In my opinion this is possibly the most clear cut and legitimate case for using notifications. I think a message that essentially says that your computer will run out of gas in 2 minutes is hardly notification spam. We need to take all of these opinions to form solid style guilelines on this issue. There are lots of strong opinions either way, lest we dig ourselves into a hole from which there is no escape... ... you have unused icons on your desktop --d -- Davyd Madeley http://www.davyd.id.au/ 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
Andy Wingo wrote: There is no way to manually rebuild the registry in 0.10, so no more post-installation hooks are needed in distro packages. I realise there is no need to manually rebuild the registry. I was just wondering if there was a way for an administrator to rebuild the registry (or a package postinst script), the same as is possible with fontconfig. I'm wondering how many users would actually correlate the increased startup time with the fact that they'd installed an OS update, rather than considering the app to be unreliable. However, if the registration is fast in the general case, then it probably isn't a problem. James. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: desktop-devel-list Digest, Vol 22, Issue 38
Hi, On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:26:29 +0100, Andy Wingo wrote: When GStreamer 0.10 starts, it recursively scans the directories in your plugins path for changes. Normally this is just $prefix/lib/gstreamer-0.10, so just one directory, they're all plugins, the disk activity isn't too bad. Depending on your machine it might take a couple seconds to get everything registered. I'd be very surprised if it took 10 seconds to register an installed GStreamer. Running from CVS is another question, because then it has to scan a very deep directory structure. This takes considerably more time. Maybe 4 seconds on my box. This price is only paid by developers working from their uninstalled copies, though. Thomas mentioned a minute for him. There appears to be some performance issue here? Either way, we're looking at a many-second thing here, presumably even for installed copies (think slow-disk machines such as laptops; not everybody has a quad parallel-ATA RAID server setup). It'd be nice to tell the user that the startup will be delayed for a few seconds. Imagine that, for no apparent reason, Firefox suddenly took a minute to start. I'd kick the thing in the balls and install IE if I were Joe Random User. Anyway, besides the point, please come back to my original point: could one of the current maintainers please provide an overview of the regressions fixed, which ones are still open and the plan to fix these other ones before the 2.14.0 release? RCs are end-of-this-month already, with hard code freeze a mere few days later. There's only a few days left. Ronald ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 22:33 +0800, Davyd Madeley wrote: On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 09:19:48AM -0500, William Jon McCann wrote: In my opinion this is possibly the most clear cut and legitimate case for using notifications. I think a message that essentially says that your computer will run out of gas in 2 minutes is hardly notification spam. We need to take all of these opinions to form solid style guilelines on this issue. There are lots of strong opinions either way, lest we dig ourselves into a hole from which there is no escape... FWIW, this is probably the section of the HIG I'd most like to see in reasonable shape before we release the next version, so proposed guidelines are welcome as bug reports or (if you're brave) on the usability list. There's already a bug open about notification icons (don't have the number to hand), but IIRC it's quite long already, so a separate one for notification balloons might be appropriate. Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
It is possible to run for instance 'gst-inspect-0.10' in the postinst script to force the registry rebuild. Christian On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 22:58 +0800, James Henstridge wrote: Andy Wingo wrote: There is no way to manually rebuild the registry in 0.10, so no more post-installation hooks are needed in distro packages. I realise there is no need to manually rebuild the registry. I was just wondering if there was a way for an administrator to rebuild the registry (or a package postinst script), the same as is possible with fontconfig. I'm wondering how many users would actually correlate the increased startup time with the fact that they'd installed an OS update, rather than considering the app to be unreliable. However, if the registration is fast in the general case, then it probably isn't a problem. James. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New panel logout/shutdown alert - a mini ui review
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 00:34:32 +1300 From: Matthew Paul Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: New panel logout/shutdown alert - a mini ui review On 10 Feb, 2006, at 8:56 PM, Vincent Untz wrote: Le jeudi 09 f?vrier 2006 ? 07:46 -0500, Matthias Clasen a ?crit : ... - The button order in the Shutdown dialog is a bit odd. Why is Cancel in the middle between Shutdown and Reboot ? Restarting should be much less common than shutting down, Okay but I do use restart quite frequently. so it's fine for Restart to be an alternative button to the left of Cancel. but I do not see how this arguement necessarily follows. Anything but the following layout would just look too weird: [ Cancel ] [ Restart ] [ Shutdown ] If you do need to restart nearly as often as shutting down, either you're switching kernels/OSes much more often than the average joe, or your OS badly needs fixing. :-) My OS does badly need fixing but that is another story ;) If you know a better way to boot into a Live CD or partition containing another operating system I'd love to hear it but I quite often use Restart for exactly that purpose. (I had and installation of Mandrake and Redhat awkwardly coexisting on the same machince for a while.) If there was another program I could use which would allow me to choose Reboot to Other Operating System I would probably use it instead of having to wait for GRUB to appear. - Alan H. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New panel logout/shutdown alert - a mini ui review
On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 16:57 +, Alan Horkan wrote: If you know a better way to boot into a Live CD or partition containing another operating system I'd love to hear it but I quite often use Restart for exactly that purpose. (I had and installation of Mandrake and Redhat awkwardly coexisting on the same machince for a while.) If there was another program I could use which would allow me to choose Reboot to Other Operating System I would probably use it instead of having to wait for GRUB to appear. A good example. During the time that I was playing on-line games, I would often reboot into Windows, so that I could play those games. While ideally, one shouldn't need to reboot, a large portion of our audience is going to be doing exactly that. We don't have the ISV support to avoid needing to reboot that often. And given the people moving from Windows, to Linux, who are used to rebooting at every install, they are going to probably do it until they realize they don't have to, regardless of where you put the button in the UI. And frankly, Linux is very much at the point where you often need to reboot after installing updates. Think about dbus, hal, and other core pieces of software. D-BUS is not exactly the friendliest piece of code to avoiding reboots, since killing it breaks everything that uses it. This could very well mean your internet connection if you are using NetworkManager, which many distributions are switching to. -- dobey PS: For reboot to this os, you can do lilo -R label if you use lilo. I am not sure if there is a similar option for grub stuff. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New panel logout/shutdown alert - a mini ui review
On 11 Feb, 2006, at 5:57 AM, Alan Horkan wrote: On Sat, 11 Feb 2006, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: ... Restarting should be much less common than shutting down, ... so it's fine for Restart to be an alternative button to the left of Cancel. but I do not see how this arguement necessarily follows. http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/windows-alert.html#alert-button-order Anything but the following layout would just look too weird: Mac OS uses the same button ordering as GNOME. http://guidebookgallery.org/screenshots/shutdownwindow#macos753 http://macgroup.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/148101437/m/358100019/r/3501014701 That alert is only ten years old this month, and you're calling it too weird? The young are easily hurt by such callous talk, you know. [ Cancel ] [ Restart ] [ Shutdown ] So when I click where the Cancel button is in every other confirmation alert in GNOME, the computer should restart? No thanks. If you do need to restart nearly as often as shutting down, either you're switching kernels/OSes much more often than the average joe, or your OS badly needs fixing. :-) My OS does badly need fixing but that is another story ;) If you know a better way to boot into a Live CD or partition containing another operating system I'd love to hear it but I quite often use Restart for exactly that purpose. (I had and installation of Mandrake and Redhat awkwardly coexisting on the etc etc etc... ... In many fewer words, you're switching kernels/OSes much more often than the average joe. And proposing an error-causing divergence from the HIG. -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New panel logout/shutdown alert - a mini ui review
Hi, Vincent. My thoughts on the the new logout/shutdown: 1.) I prefer that logout be at the very bottom (as Luca suggested)...but I also agree with Luca, that it's probably just my preference. :) 2.) I don't like the timeout. It should either be removed or the timeout should be reduced to 10 secs. (Luca, already covered the reasons why a long timeout is annoying which I agree with) 3.) I don't use GDM but boot directly into run level 3. The shutdown button logs me out instead of shutting down the machine. Is there a way you could implement a workaround for this? a. If GDM is not running then just issue a poweroff ??? Other than that I really like the new dialogs. It's a huge improvement. :) Bob -- Bob Kashani GARNOME Project http://www.gnome.org/projects/garnome ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: G_MODULE_BIND_LOCAL broke nautilus-python extension
On Wed, 2006-02-08 at 20:02 +, Mike Hearn wrote: On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 16:22:08 +, Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro wrote: So it seems that the desktop wide decision to load all modules with G_MODULE_BIND_LOCAL, for performance reasons, may break python extensions. So far, nautilus-python was affected by this. Do people have any suggestions? Clearly Python has to be fixed, but that is a long term fix; how to fix things _now_? Try calling dlopen(libpython.so.whatever, RTLD_GLOBAL) before calling into the interpreter. If you're lucky that'll force the symbols into global scope. If you're unlucky then you need to not link against libpython yourself but instead dlopen and dlsym the APIs you need, and hope that they actually exist (libpython does not have a stable ABI). This worked perfectly; thanks a lot! :-) -- Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] The universe is always one step beyond logic. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
Ask and thou shall receive :) - asf and multi-language .mkv/.ogm files still don't play, .mpg functionality is still heavily limited although basic playback works Edward (bilboed) ported the ffmpeg demuxers. All ffmpeg demuxers including asf (and the weird game formats) now work. Including seeking. - subtitles embedded in movies (.mkv, .ogm, dvds) still don't work Still not ready, but Martin Soto and Edgard Lima is working on it now. - language selection (audio tracks, subtitles) still doesn't work Jan has a stream selection design done. But this still need some more work. - dvds/vcds still don't work Tim just checked in his vcd support. - thumbnailer is still broken Heh? works fine for me. - firefox plugin still doesn't playback most formats Edward is going to add push mode support to ffmpeg. - gnome-media's sound recorder still doesn't playback Works for me, got one non-critical error message, but a patch from Tim fixed that. - for every cvs up of gstreamer, my totem (or any app) still takes 10s to startup with no visual feedback Already replied to this one. Christian ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New panel logout/shutdown alert - a mini ui review
On Sat, 2006-02-11 at 00:34 +1300, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: On 10 Feb, 2006, at 8:56 PM, Vincent Untz wrote: Le jeudi 09 février 2006 à 07:46 -0500, Matthias Clasen a écrit : ... - The button order in the Shutdown dialog is a bit odd. Why is Cancel in the middle between Shutdown and Reboot ? I tend to agree here. Maybe we should not follow the HIG in this case since the menu item means: shutdown or reboot?. ... Restarting should be much less common than shutting down, so it's fine for Restart to be an alternative button to the left of Cancel. (Another factor is that Restart is only a shortcut, equivalent to Shut Down + start up again.) If you do need to restart nearly as often as shutting down, either you're switching kernels/OSes much more often than the average joe, or your OS badly needs fixing. :-) Or the other way around: It's not that I restart all that often time; it's just that I never shut down. But hey, whatever, I'm not going to argue that Restart should be the default action just because *I* use it more. To me, the most compelling reason for Shut Down to be the primary is that the menu item is, in fact, Shut Down. Although I do think the [Restart, Cancel, Shut Down] button order feels weird. I'm fond of radio buttons and few (like, two) action buttons, especially when those radio buttons can remember that I'm a restart kind of guy. -- Shaun ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
Matthias Clasen wrote: On 2/9/06, Shaun McCance [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2006-02-09 at 10:58 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: On Thu, February 9, 2006 10:41, Davyd Madeley wrote: On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 09:10:55AM +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: + gtk-engines: I quickly looked at the archives and couldn't find a mail related to it (ie there's no mail with engines in the subject ;-)). Is the issue a possible slowdown caused by the use of cairo? We have two issues here: (a) speed issues caused by Cairo; and (b) changes in the default theme (which while may be popular are also unpopular with others) Isn't be an issue in the theme (and not the engine)? Well, the new Clearlooks entails both the Cairo-enabled Clearlooks engine in gtk-engines and the Clearlooks theme data in gnome-themes. Both the engine and the theme data have changed. The theme data is probably setting a few things that are new to the engine, but most notably, it's using a brigher and more saturated set of colors. Both the engine and the theme data are responsible for point (b). The engine is responsible for point (a). Until somebody sits down and does measurements to show that use of cairo in theme engines is responsible for measurable slowdowns, this is just guesswork. Is there any way of reliably profiling gtk engines? As far as I am aware there is no way (short of actually placing hooks in the engine) of knowing when the engine has finished painting a widget or window. If anyone can think of a good way of profiling the speed of a theme, I would be very interested to know. -Thomas ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New panel logout/shutdown alert - a mini ui review
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 01:05:40PM -0500, Rodney Dawes wrote: And frankly, Linux is very much at the point where you often need to reboot after installing updates. Think about dbus, hal, and other core pieces of software. D-BUS is not exactly the friendliest piece of code to avoiding reboots, since killing it breaks everything that uses it. This is a bug that needs to be fixed, not worked around. dave... -- David Schleef Big Kitten LLC (http://www.bigkitten.com/) -- data acquisition on Linux ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
Hi Christian, Two things: - it should work is not an answer to my concerns. GStreamer 0.6 was supposed to do a lot of things that it really didn't do. Please test before making any such claims to the release-team or desktop-devel. I've spent a full weekend doing such tests for my email last month. I've spent ages and ages on GStreamer 0.8 to make sure it really did do all the things we had claimed it did for too long before. - Half of those things were supposed to be done a month ago. They are still not done, ages beyond the feature freeze and not much time left until the release candidates and the hard code freeze. What to do now? Will we ship with all the regressions if you guys turn out to not be able to fix it in time? Is there any timetable that we can keep you guys to? Ronald On Fri, 10 Feb 2006, Christian Fredrik Kalager Schaller wrote: - asf and multi-language .mkv/.ogm files still don't play, .mpg functionality is still heavily limited although basic playback works Edward (bilboed) ported the ffmpeg demuxers. All ffmpeg demuxers including asf (and the weird game formats) now work. Including seeking. - subtitles embedded in movies (.mkv, .ogm, dvds) still don't work Still not ready, but Martin Soto and Edgard Lima is working on it now. - language selection (audio tracks, subtitles) still doesn't work Jan has a stream selection design done. But this still need some more work. - dvds/vcds still don't work Tim just checked in his vcd support. - thumbnailer is still broken Heh? works fine for me. - firefox plugin still doesn't playback most formats Edward is going to add push mode support to ffmpeg. - gnome-media's sound recorder still doesn't playback Works for me, got one non-critical error message, but a patch from Tim fixed that. - for every cvs up of gstreamer, my totem (or any app) still takes 10s to startup with no visual feedback Already replied to this one. Christian ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: requesting official list of modules and versions for GNOME 2.14
On Thu, 2006-02-09 at 09:10 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: + glib + pango: the only objection was Federico's gripe about the floating reference in glib 2.9. Federico, do you have an update on this? Most people seemed to be happy to go with the new versions (new stuff is gslice, pango/cairo and unicode 4.1). Floating references went in, and I still think they are a terrible idea for the reasons I wrote about in detail: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2006-January/msg00012.html http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2006-January/msg00051.html You have to understand floating references in the context of their original purpose. Quote: The complicated rules about GtkWidgets and their `floating' flag are there to avoid breaking *all* existing code. [From http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-list/1997-November/msg00245.html ] Floating references were added to GtkObject to avoid modifying *all* the apps written for GTK+ when we introduced reference counting. Today, putting floating references at the glib level is just a fetish for gratuitous complexity. Right now, my objection to floating references in stock glib is not that of a technical problem --- I think even the ABI issues with the original patches got resolved. [Can we get *real* confirmation on that, by someone who runs 2.12 language bindings with glib HEAD? Otherwise we are fucking ourselves in the ass very hard.] My objection is that floating references introduce a consistency problem for new APIs, a documentation problem, and it is just more pain for the average programmer who wants to learn our platform at the C/C++ level. Floating references do not help our users. Floating references do not help programmers, either; they just confuse them. Federico ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: desktop-devel-list Digest, Vol 22, Issue 38
Hi Ronald, I thought I saw Christian had gone through the regressions and mentioned which ones are fixed and for the ones that aren't fixed yet, he mentioned who was looking at fixing it. Also, I have slow machines with gstreamer 0.10 installed (system not cvs uninstalled) and the startup time for totem and other gstreamer applications is not noticable. Take Care Zaheer On 2/10/06, Ronald S. Bultje [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:26:29 +0100, Andy Wingo wrote: When GStreamer 0.10 starts, it recursively scans the directories in your plugins path for changes. Normally this is just $prefix/lib/gstreamer-0.10, so just one directory, they're all plugins, the disk activity isn't too bad. Depending on your machine it might take a couple seconds to get everything registered. I'd be very surprised if it took 10 seconds to register an installed GStreamer. Running from CVS is another question, because then it has to scan a very deep directory structure. This takes considerably more time. Maybe 4 seconds on my box. This price is only paid by developers working from their uninstalled copies, though. Thomas mentioned a minute for him. There appears to be some performance issue here? Either way, we're looking at a many-second thing here, presumably even for installed copies (think slow-disk machines such as laptops; not everybody has a quad parallel-ATA RAID server setup). It'd be nice to tell the user that the startup will be delayed for a few seconds. Imagine that, for no apparent reason, Firefox suddenly took a minute to start. I'd kick the thing in the balls and install IE if I were Joe Random User. Anyway, besides the point, please come back to my original point: could one of the current maintainers please provide an overview of the regressions fixed, which ones are still open and the plan to fix these other ones before the 2.14.0 release? RCs are end-of-this-month already, with hard code freeze a mere few days later. There's only a few days left. Ronald ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
