Re: Platform
Shaun McCance schrieb: Hey folks, I'm taking a hard look at the Platform Overview and how we can improve our message to ISDs through better documentation. Our release sets, unfortunately, don't really reflect what we really recommend to developers. That role has more or less been delegated to the Platform Overview. The problem is that what's in the Platform Overview is based entirely on what I happened to think was worth mentioning at some point. I should not be the arbiter of our platform. I would like to get people's opinions on what technologies we should be pushing. I'm interested both in the here and now and in what people think the Gnome 3 message should be. I've organized my thoughts into three categories: Platform contains technologies that are currently in our Developer Platform release; Recommended contains thing that we seem to agree we should push, but are either in the Desktop release or just in our external dependencies; and Others contains stuff that I think is cool and could be part of our core offering some time in the indeterminate future. The list is what came to mind as I was writing this email. Please feel free to discuss libraries I forgot. Platform GTK+ -- The core of how we make graphical applications. Pango -- Internationalized text rendering system. You love it and you know it. GLib -- The foundation for pretty much everything we do. GIO -- Part of GLib, but worth a separate mention in the Platform Overview. GConf -- Configuration system. There is talk of a new system (see below). But I think it's obvious that we need to be pushing something here. So as long as GConf is what we have, it's what we push. ATK -- Accessibility toolkit. Used by GTK+. Should be used by anything else that does UIs. Recommended === Cairo -- Incredible drawing library, used by GTK+. There seems to be general agreement that developers should use Cairo when they need to do custom drawing. GStreamer -- All things multimedia. I don't think there's any argument against GStreamer being the Gnome-blessed way to do multimedia. D-Bus -- Inter-process messaging system. Lots of stuff is built on it. How much do we want to push it directly? Avahi -- Service discovery. This is used in quite a few places. I know some people in the past had talked about having a simple wrapper in GLib. How much do we push it? Now that apple has closed the whole bonjour stack, I would prefer to build on upnp. We have gupnp, which is actively developed and fitting nicely here. Stefan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Platform
Shaun McCance schrieb: On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 14:05 -0500, Shaun McCance wrote: Hey folks, I'm taking a hard look at the Platform Overview http://library.gnome.org/devel/platform-overview/stable/index.html For those who don't know. It would be nice if we could get more images like this one in http://library.gnome.org/devel/platform-overview/stable/graphics.html.en No fancy UML, just on that level. Imho this makes the document more credible and improves the hedonistic experience for the reader :) For multimedia aka GSTreamer we have this one http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/manual/html/chapter-gstreamer.html do we want them all in the same style. if the UI one is available as svg, it should not be too diffcult to redraw the gst one. Stefan -- Shaun ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Platform
On Mon, 2009-05-18 at 22:39 +0300, Stefan Kost wrote: Shaun McCance schrieb: Avahi -- Service discovery. This is used in quite a few places. I know some people in the past had talked about having a simple wrapper in GLib. How much do we push it? Now that apple has closed the whole bonjour stack, I would prefer to build on upnp. We have gupnp, which is actively developed and fitting nicely here. Closed in what way? Is UPnP any more open? What do we have using Zeroconf right now? What do we have using UPnP? What things do we get to choose what to use, versus technologies that we just have to conform to? And what are the chances that we could get a wrapper for either or both of these in GLib? -- Shaun ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Platform
On Mon, 2009-05-18 at 22:49 +0300, Stefan Kost wrote: Shaun McCance schrieb: On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 14:05 -0500, Shaun McCance wrote: Hey folks, I'm taking a hard look at the Platform Overview http://library.gnome.org/devel/platform-overview/stable/index.html For those who don't know. It would be nice if we could get more images like this one in http://library.gnome.org/devel/platform-overview/stable/graphics.html.en No fancy UML, just on that level. Imho this makes the document more credible and improves the hedonistic experience for the reader :) For multimedia aka GSTreamer we have this one http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/manual/html/chapter-gstreamer.html do we want them all in the same style. if the UI one is available as svg, it should not be too diffcult to redraw the gst one. Yeah, I was talking to Andreas about this the other day. It's definitely something worth doing. But planning the content is step 1. Diagrams are like step 7. -- Shaun ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
List translators script
Hi, folks. I did a small script to list translators since a specified commit ID. I used to use the list_translators.sh scripts listed at http://live.gnome.org/MaintainersCorner/Releasing . With git, that script doesn't work anymore. Hope this is useful to some maintainer. Put that on ~/bin (which is in my PATH) and just run: translators.sh COMMIT_ID. It will output both UI and Doc translations in the format Author name (language_code). I use it in vino and vinagre for instance. Feel free to improve the script and share it ;) -- Jonh Wendell http://www.bani.com.br translators.sh Description: application/shellscript ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: List translators script
i have also working list_translators.sh here, which i enhanced to my needs. please find it attached. daniel On Mo, 2009-05-18 at 17:31 -0300, Jonh Wendell wrote: Hi, folks. I did a small script to list translators since a specified commit ID. I used to use the list_translators.sh scripts listed at http://live.gnome.org/MaintainersCorner/Releasing . With git, that script doesn't work anymore. Hope this is useful to some maintainer. Put that on ~/bin (which is in my PATH) and just run: translators.sh COMMIT_ID. It will output both UI and Doc translations in the format Author name (language_code). I use it in vino and vinagre for instance. Feel free to improve the script and share it ;) ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- this mail was sent using 100% recycled electrons daniel g. siegel dgsie...@gmail.com http://home.cs.tum.edu/~siegel gnupg key id: 0x6EEC9E62 fingerprint: DE5B 1F64 9034 1FB6 E120 DE10 268D AFD5 6EEC 9E62 encrypted email preferred list_translators.sh Description: application/shellscript signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Platform
On Mon, 2009-05-18 at 22:39 +0300, Stefan Kost wrote: Now that apple has closed the whole bonjour stack, I would prefer to build on upnp. We have gupnp, which is actively developed and fitting nicely here. I'm very curious as to what this closing of the bonjour stack is: even if they closed their Bonjour implementation the specifications are public (interestingly the Internet Draft expired yesterday): http://files.dns-sd.org/draft-cheshire-dnsext-nbp.txt Whilst I'm a maintainer of GUPnP and think it's the best solution we have for interoperating with other UPnP devices (of which they are many in the wild), I really do think it's an ugly specification which hasn't had any recent development. I also notice that Windows Vista includes something I've forgotten the name of which they basically call the successor to UPnP... The two technologies are pretty different. mDNS gives you name resolution and by extension (via cunning use of DNS) service lookups, i.e. what printers are here. At this point it stops caring and you use application-specific protocols: XMPP for link-local chat, IPP/HTTP for printing, and so on. Generally mDNS is used to announce an existing service, such as the location of an existing IPP print queue, or SSH server, or HTTP server. Because mDNS doesn't care what you do after discovery, security is not it's problem. UPnP doesn't do name resolution, but does do service discovery. Introspection of services and invocation of remote method calls is also part of UPnP, invocation is done via everyone's favorite RPC protocol, SOAP. The UPnP specifications cover a large number of services (internet gateway devices, media servers, scanners, printers, security cameras, lighting and so on) but I've only ever seen IGDs and media servers in the wild. Security is non-existent, any process (including Flash in a web page) can make UPnP calls and (say) open ports on your router. Personally speaking, if you want to do basic service announcement/discovery and you already have a good protocol which works (say HTTP or XMPP) then I'd recommend starting with mDNS. If you want to interoperate with existing devices (such as routers and media servers) then using UPnP is the only solution, because I don't know of a mDNS equivalent for the IGD magic and Apple are working very hard at stopping you from using DAAP/DPAP on a Mac. This mail turned out to be a bit longer and rambling than I was hoping, but the executive summary is this: at present, both are required, depending on the situation. Ross -- Ross Burton mail: r...@burtonini.com jabber: r...@burtonini.com www: http://burtonini.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Platform
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:52 AM, Ross Burton r...@burtonini.com wrote: On Mon, 2009-05-18 at 22:39 +0300, Stefan Kost wrote: Now that apple has closed the whole bonjour stack, I would prefer to build on upnp. We have gupnp, which is actively developed and fitting nicely here. I'm very curious as to what this closing of the bonjour stack is: even if they closed their Bonjour implementation the specifications are public (interestingly the Internet Draft expired yesterday): http://files.dns-sd.org/draft-cheshire-dnsext-nbp.txt Whilst I'm a maintainer of GUPnP and think it's the best solution we have for interoperating with other UPnP devices (of which they are many in the wild), I really do think it's an ugly specification which hasn't had any recent development. I also notice that Windows Vista includes something I've forgotten the name of which they basically call the successor to UPnP... The two technologies are pretty different. mDNS gives you name resolution and by extension (via cunning use of DNS) service lookups, i.e. what printers are here. At this point it stops caring and you use application-specific protocols: XMPP for link-local chat, IPP/HTTP for printing, and so on. Generally mDNS is used to announce an existing service, such as the location of an existing IPP print queue, or SSH server, or HTTP server. Because mDNS doesn't care what you do after discovery, security is not it's problem. UPnP doesn't do name resolution, but does do service discovery. Introspection of services and invocation of remote method calls is also part of UPnP, invocation is done via everyone's favorite RPC protocol, SOAP. The UPnP specifications cover a large number of services (internet gateway devices, media servers, scanners, printers, security cameras, lighting and so on) but I've only ever seen IGDs and media servers in the wild. Security is non-existent, any process (including Flash in a web page) can make UPnP calls and (say) open ports on your router. Personally speaking, if you want to do basic service announcement/discovery and you already have a good protocol which works (say HTTP or XMPP) then I'd recommend starting with mDNS. If you want to interoperate with existing devices (such as routers and media servers) then using UPnP is the only solution, because I don't know of a mDNS equivalent for the IGD magic and Apple are working very hard at stopping you from using DAAP/DPAP on a Mac. This mail turned out to be a bit longer and rambling than I was hoping, but the executive summary is this: at present, both are required, depending on the situation. Why are we discussing UPnP vs mDNS? Isn't it like discussing USB vs Firewire? Ideally both should be supported. -- Felipe Contreras ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Platform
On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 01:31 +0300, Felipe Contreras wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:52 AM, Ross Burton r...@burtonini.com wrote: On Mon, 2009-05-18 at 22:39 +0300, Stefan Kost wrote: Now that apple has closed the whole bonjour stack, I would prefer to build on upnp. We have gupnp, which is actively developed and fitting nicely here. I'm very curious as to what this closing of the bonjour stack is: even if they closed their Bonjour implementation the specifications are public (interestingly the Internet Draft expired yesterday): http://files.dns-sd.org/draft-cheshire-dnsext-nbp.txt Whilst I'm a maintainer of GUPnP and think it's the best solution we have for interoperating with other UPnP devices (of which they are many in the wild), I really do think it's an ugly specification which hasn't had any recent development. I also notice that Windows Vista includes something I've forgotten the name of which they basically call the successor to UPnP... The two technologies are pretty different. mDNS gives you name resolution and by extension (via cunning use of DNS) service lookups, i.e. what printers are here. At this point it stops caring and you use application-specific protocols: XMPP for link-local chat, IPP/HTTP for printing, and so on. Generally mDNS is used to announce an existing service, such as the location of an existing IPP print queue, or SSH server, or HTTP server. Because mDNS doesn't care what you do after discovery, security is not it's problem. UPnP doesn't do name resolution, but does do service discovery. Introspection of services and invocation of remote method calls is also part of UPnP, invocation is done via everyone's favorite RPC protocol, SOAP. The UPnP specifications cover a large number of services (internet gateway devices, media servers, scanners, printers, security cameras, lighting and so on) but I've only ever seen IGDs and media servers in the wild. Security is non-existent, any process (including Flash in a web page) can make UPnP calls and (say) open ports on your router. Personally speaking, if you want to do basic service announcement/discovery and you already have a good protocol which works (say HTTP or XMPP) then I'd recommend starting with mDNS. If you want to interoperate with existing devices (such as routers and media servers) then using UPnP is the only solution, because I don't know of a mDNS equivalent for the IGD magic and Apple are working very hard at stopping you from using DAAP/DPAP on a Mac. This mail turned out to be a bit longer and rambling than I was hoping, but the executive summary is this: at present, both are required, depending on the situation. Why are we discussing UPnP vs mDNS? Isn't it like discussing USB vs Firewire? Ideally both should be supported. This entire thread is not about what we should be capable of interacting with. It's about what we want to present to third-party developers as our platform. Say a game developer comes along and wants a way for his game to find other instances of itself on the local network. What are we recommending? I don't have all the answers to these questions. -- Shaun ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Platform
2009/5/18 Ross Burton r...@burtonini.com: Whilst I'm a maintainer of GUPnP and think it's the best solution we have for interoperating with other UPnP devices (of which they are many in the wild), I really do think it's an ugly specification which hasn't had any recent development. I also notice that Windows Vista includes something I've forgotten the name of which they basically call the successor to UPnP... Perhaps you are referring to DPWS [1] or DLNA [2]. For the second there is a good implementation here [3] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devices_Profile_for_Web_Services [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance [3] http://coherence.beebits.net/ -- Javier Jardón Cabezas ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
