Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
Matthias Clasen matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote: to be fair, I'd envision this as a completely separate session that you need to install and select, similar to what Ubuntu does — especially if we want to call it GNOME Classic. Agreed. I don't think a separate session will work very well for this - for one thing, setting this up will require a number of settings to be tweaked (e.g. the one for the minimize button), and alternative sessions don't have the right infrastructure for that. A separate user session would be the best user experience, IMO. The session chooser on the login screen is not the best designed part of the login experience either. That's a non-argument. We can improve it. The Tweak Tool is *completely* the wrong place for this. In what way is completely changing the shell a tweak? How does it make sense to be able to completely change the experience using a setting that is included in a non-core application, and which could later be removed? What kind of experience will you get when the shell transitions to classic mode right in front of the user's eyes? The Tweak Tool shouldn't have anything to do with extensions. They are something that you install and run as a part of the system, not something to be tweaked via settings. Allan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 4:04 AM, Allan Day allanp...@gmail.com wrote: Matthias Clasen matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote: to be fair, I'd envision this as a completely separate session that you need to install and select, similar to what Ubuntu does — especially if we want to call it GNOME Classic. Agreed. I don't think a separate session will work very well for this - for one thing, setting this up will require a number of settings to be tweaked (e.g. the one for the minimize button), and alternative sessions don't have the right infrastructure for that. A separate user session would be the best user experience, IMO. If you think so, we'll have to discuss the technicalities of making that work. The session chooser on the login screen is not the best designed part of the login experience either. That's a non-argument. We can improve it. Indeed, that is https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=658593 The Tweak Tool is *completely* the wrong place for this. In what way is completely changing the shell a tweak? How does it make sense to be able to completely change the experience using a setting that is included in a non-core application, and which could later be removed? What kind of experience will you get when the shell transitions to classic mode right in front of the user's eyes? The Tweak Tool shouldn't have anything to do with extensions. They are something that you install and run as a part of the system, not something to be tweaked via settings. We may have to look over the tweak tool, then - enabling and configuring extensions is currently very much part of it. Thanks for chiming in; I appreciate it. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 5:59 PM, Matthias Clasen matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 4:04 AM, Allan Day allanp...@gmail.com wrote: A separate user session would be the best user experience, IMO. If you think so, we'll have to discuss the technicalities of making that work. Thinking a bit about this, we can probably add a little session-mode hook to load extensions in addition to the ones configured in GSettings, so running gnome-shell --mode=fallback (or classic if we must) would start with the appropriate extensions (including a simple one that overrides the location of the button-layout setting to include the minimize button in the default). But is this really what we want? Separate sessions strongly indicate that we provide two different but equal user experiences, rather than a variation of the default experience which throws in some familiar bits to make the transition less painful. Or am I misunderstanding something and we indeed intend to provide the former? The Tweak Tool shouldn't have anything to do with extensions. They are something that you install and run as a part of the system, not something to be tweaked via settings. While I agree with you that gnome-tweak-tool (and package managers (*)) are not the right place for extension management, I don't think this is much of a concern with the matter at hand - as I understand it, extensions are merely an implementation detail here and not exposed to the user (except that they should also appear separately on extensions.gnome.org, so users don't have to switch their system over entirely if they only care about one or two tweaks). As mentioned briefly above, I'd still assume an implementation based on extensions even if we are going for a separate session. Florian (*) not to mention an extension management extension - I wish I was kidding ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
Florian Müllner fmuell...@gnome.org wrote: ... The Tweak Tool shouldn't have anything to do with extensions. They are something that you install and run as a part of the system, not something to be tweaked via settings. While I agree with you that gnome-tweak-tool (and package managers (*)) are not the right place for extension management, I don't think this is much of a concern with the matter at hand - as I understand it, extensions are merely an implementation detail here and not exposed to the user (except that they should also appear separately on extensions.gnome.org, so users don't have to switch their system over entirely if they only care about one or two tweaks). As mentioned briefly above, I'd still assume an implementation based on extensions even if we are going for a separate session. ... (*) not to mention an extension management extension - I wish I was kidding Yeah, we sorely need a way to locally enable/disable and uninstall extensions. This should be built into the core, somehow. Allan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
The idea of using the web page as management was an idea that Owen had, and in some ways it was a logical progression of the addons.mozilla.org experience: you get extensions from the web site, so why not enable/disable/configure/uninstall them from there too? It's a good idea, but a myriad of technical issues (shoddy/broken network, pushing browsers to the limits, potential security problems with native code, broken by the click to play plugins model) prevent it from being as fluid and well-implemented as I had hoped. Right now, the local experience for this is use gnome-tweak-tool, which has a native UI or use the Extension List extension. If you want to design something better, feel free. I've been trying to get designers involved in the design of the website and extensions experience, but I haven't gotten any reception whatsoever from the 4 or 5 times I've tried to bring it up, so I dropped. But this is getting off-topic. I wrote a giant rant as a G+ comment on some post that someone made about this mailing list thread. Summary: I don't feel the classic mode experience is a great long-term solution, but since we're used to just writing and shipping untested code, it's going to be what we do for now. On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Allan Day allanp...@gmail.com wrote: Florian Müllner fmuell...@gnome.org wrote: ... The Tweak Tool shouldn't have anything to do with extensions. They are something that you install and run as a part of the system, not something to be tweaked via settings. While I agree with you that gnome-tweak-tool (and package managers (*)) are not the right place for extension management, I don't think this is much of a concern with the matter at hand - as I understand it, extensions are merely an implementation detail here and not exposed to the user (except that they should also appear separately on extensions.gnome.org, so users don't have to switch their system over entirely if they only care about one or two tweaks). As mentioned briefly above, I'd still assume an implementation based on extensions even if we are going for a separate session. ... (*) not to mention an extension management extension - I wish I was kidding Yeah, we sorely need a way to locally enable/disable and uninstall extensions. This should be built into the core, somehow. Allan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- Jasper ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 7:27 PM, Allan Day allanp...@gmail.com wrote: Florian Müllner fmuell...@gnome.org wrote: ... The Tweak Tool shouldn't have anything to do with extensions. They are something that you install and run as a part of the system, not something to be tweaked via settings. While I agree with you that gnome-tweak-tool (and package managers (*)) are not the right place for extension management, I don't think this is much of a concern with the matter at hand - as I understand it, extensions are merely an implementation detail here and not exposed to the user (except that they should also appear separately on extensions.gnome.org, so users don't have to switch their system over entirely if they only care about one or two tweaks). As mentioned briefly above, I'd still assume an implementation based on extensions even if we are going for a separate session. ... (*) not to mention an extension management extension - I wish I was kidding Yeah, we sorely need a way to locally enable/disable and uninstall extensions. This should be built into the core, somehow. Really? Because I have all that code written and sitting there in tweak-tool and have held off enabling/presenting it for fear of stepping on the toes of e.g.o and confusing everyone. If you want me to put that into tweak-tool just ask. BTW; this gets a bit messier if now we ship classic mode as a collection of system-wide (i.e. package manager installed) extensions instead of the user-only extensions aka e.g.o. John Allan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
In the discussion over fallback mode at the Boston, we've talked about GNOME users who use fallback mode because they are used to certain elements and features of the GNOME 2 UX, such as task bars, minimization, etc. GNOME 3 has brought new patterns to replace these, such as overview and search. And while we certainly hope that many users will find the new ways comfortable and refreshing after a short learning phase, we should not fault people who prefer the old way. After all, these features were a selling point of GNOME 2 for ten years! So, what to do ? Thankfully, we have a pretty awesome extension mechanism in gnome-shell (extensions.gnome.org), and there are a ton of extensions out there which allow users to tweak gnome-shell in all kinds of ways. This also includes extensions which bring back many of the aforementioned 'classic' UX elements. The downsides of extensions are that (a) there is no guarantee that they will work with a new shell release - you often have to wait for your favourite extension to be ported and (b) there's so many of them, which often do very similar things - choice is always hard. As part of the planning for the DropOrFixFallbackMode feature[1], we've decided that we will compile a list of supported gnome-shell extensions. This will be a small list, focused on just bringing back some central 'classic' UX elements: classic alt tab, task bar, min/max buttons, main menu. To ensure that these extensions keep working, we will release them as a tarball, just like any other module. Giovanni already added an --enable-extensions=classic-mode configure option to the gnome-shell-extensions repository, which we will use for this work. We haven't made a final decision yet on how to let users turn on this 'classic mode' - it may be a switch in gnome-tweak-tool or something else. Some questions that I expect will be asked: Q: Why not just make gnome-shell itself more tweakable ? A: We still believe that there should be a single, well-defined UX for GNOME 3, and extensions provide a great mechanism to allow tweaks without giving up on this vision. That being said, there are examples like the a11y menu[2] or search[3], where the shell will become more configurable in the future. Q: Why not cinnamon ? A: Cinnamon is a complete fork of mutter/gnome-shell/nautilus - ie a completely separate desktop shell. Our aim with dropping fallback mode is to reduce the number of desktop shells we ship, not replace one by another. We've had a friendly discussion with clem about the reasons why they went from a set of extensions to an outright fork, and we don't think they apply in our situation. Q: Why isn't it enough to just have these 'classic mode' extensions on extensions.gnome.org ? A: We want to support these, ie make sure that they are available and work at the same time as the next major GNOME release. The most straightforward way to do that is to make them part of our traditional release mechanism - git repositories and tarballs. Q: Who is working on this ? A: Giovanni, Debarshi and Florian. Comments, questions, suggestions welcome. Matthias [1] https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointSeven/Features/DropOrFixFallbackMode [2] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=681528 [3] https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointSeven/Features/IntegratedApplicationSearch ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 08:17 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: So, what to do ? Thankfully, we have a pretty awesome extension mechanism in gnome-shell (extensions.gnome.org), and there are a ton of extensions out there which allow users to tweak gnome-shell in all kinds of ways. This also includes extensions which bring back many of the aforementioned 'classic' UX elements. The downsides of extensions are that (a) there is no guarantee that they will work with a new shell release - you often have to wait for your favourite extension to be ported and (b) there's so many of them, which often do very similar things - choice is always hard. Just throwing in questions on minimizing the problem of updates breaking gnome-shell extensions, obviously: Can we make testing beta versions (and porting extensions to the next major version of GNOME) more attractive / easier for extension authors? Have Shell maintainers published info on Code changes which may affect extensions in the past? Putting this into the release notes feels a bit too late. andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 08:17:16AM -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: We haven't made a final decision yet on how to let users turn on this 'classic mode' - it may be a switch in gnome-tweak-tool or something else. I'm wondering if we cannot just change the fallback mode switch into a traditional toggle (IMO classical is not the right word). I know it goes against the vision, etc, but I don't care. If this is supported it should be easily findable, not rely on gnome-tweak-tool. We should exactly define what it does though, not expand on that. Suggest to also include a small note that this mode is not what we designed things for, and as a result some things might work worse than intended. -- Regards, Olav ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 15:05 +0100, Olav Vitters wrote: On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 08:17:16AM -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: We haven't made a final decision yet on how to let users turn on this 'classic mode' - it may be a switch in gnome-tweak-tool or something else. I'm wondering if we cannot just change the fallback mode switch into a traditional toggle (IMO classical is not the right word). I know it goes against the vision, etc, but I don't care. If this is supported it should be easily findable, not rely on gnome-tweak-tool. It won't go in the Settings. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
It won't go in the Settings. Why not? Why was the forced fallback in Settings instead of the Tweak Tool in the first place? Cheers, Debarshi -- There are two hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. pgpraCqiskS4Y.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 14:27 +0100, Andre Klapper wrote: On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 08:17 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: So, what to do ? Thankfully, we have a pretty awesome extension mechanism in gnome-shell (extensions.gnome.org), and there are a ton of extensions out there which allow users to tweak gnome-shell in all kinds of ways. This also includes extensions which bring back many of the aforementioned 'classic' UX elements. The downsides of extensions are that (a) there is no guarantee that they will work with a new shell release - you often have to wait for your favourite extension to be ported and (b) there's so many of them, which often do very similar things - choice is always hard. Just throwing in questions on minimizing the problem of updates breaking gnome-shell extensions, obviously: Can we make testing beta versions (and porting extensions to the next major version of GNOME) more attractive / easier for extension authors? Have Shell maintainers published info on Code changes which may affect extensions in the past? Putting this into the release notes feels a bit too late. That's part of the work that's been happening on GNOME OS, and on Boxes. One should just be able to grab an image from gnome.org, start Boxes with it, and do the changes to their extensions as development versions are released. (replace extensions with applications, or even core components, and you can see why it's a very important part of a QA effort). ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Debarshi Ray rishi...@lostca.se wrote: It won't go in the Settings. Why not? Why was the forced fallback in Settings instead of the Tweak Tool in the first place? +1 Cheers, Debarshi -- There are two hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 14:11 +, Debarshi Ray wrote: It won't go in the Settings. Why not? Why was the forced fallback in Settings instead of the Tweak Tool in the first place? To work-around driver bugs. We might replace the force fallback setting with a force software rendering switch if it turns out to cause too many problems. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
hi; On 21 November 2012 14:05, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote: On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 08:17:16AM -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: We haven't made a final decision yet on how to let users turn on this 'classic mode' - it may be a switch in gnome-tweak-tool or something else. I'm wondering if we cannot just change the fallback mode switch into a traditional toggle (IMO classical is not the right word). I know it goes against the vision, etc, but I don't care. I do care, and honestly if you care enough to toggle a switch to change a user interface, then System Settings or Tweak Tool are perfectly equivalent. to be fair, I'd envision this as a completely separate session that you need to install and select, similar to what Ubuntu does — especially if we want to call it GNOME Classic. ciao, Emmanuele. -- W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Emmanuele Bassi eba...@gmail.com wrote: to be fair, I'd envision this as a completely separate session that you need to install and select, similar to what Ubuntu does — especially if we want to call it GNOME Classic. I don't think a separate session will work very well for this - for one thing, setting this up will require a number of settings to be tweaked (e.g. the one for the minimize button), and alternative sessions don't have the right infrastructure for that. The session chooser on the login screen is not the best designed part of the login experience either. And finally, if Ubuntu calls their pristine GNOME3 session 'GNOME Classic', what would we call this one, GNOME Classic Plus ?! ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Matthias Clasen matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Emmanuele Bassi eba...@gmail.com wrote: to be fair, I'd envision this as a completely separate session that you need to install and select, similar to what Ubuntu does — especially if we want to call it GNOME Classic. I don't think a separate session will work very well for this - for one thing, setting this up will require a number of settings to be tweaked (e.g. the one for the minimize button), and alternative sessions don't have the right infrastructure for that. The session chooser on the login screen is not the best designed part of the login experience either. And finally, if Ubuntu calls their pristine GNOME3 session 'GNOME Classic', what would we call this one, GNOME Classic Plus ?! Ubuntu calls GNOME Shell session just GNOME for reference... GNOME Classic is fallback mode. Otherwise I agree - I don't think this should be a seperate session, but a simple change in settings, a button or toggle somewhere in settings to make gnome-shell a more traditional desktop. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 09:56 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: I don't think a separate session will work very well for this - for one thing, setting this up will require a number of settings to be tweaked (e.g. the one for the minimize button), and alternative sessions don't have the right infrastructure for that. The session chooser on the login screen is not the best designed part of the login experience either. And finally, if Ubuntu calls their pristine GNOME3 session 'GNOME Classic', what would we call this one, GNOME Classic Plus ?! I'm open to including the enabling and configuration of this GNOME Classic mode in tweak tool. Just provide me with some UI mockups etc. related aside: can we please put include the user-theme extension in this list, or possibly fold its functionality into gnome-shell proper. It would be easier in tweak-tool if I could always assume it was there. John ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 5:27 AM, Andre Klapper ak...@gmx.net wrote: On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 08:17 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: So, what to do ? Thankfully, we have a pretty awesome extension mechanism in gnome-shell (extensions.gnome.org), and there are a ton of extensions out there which allow users to tweak gnome-shell in all kinds of ways. This also includes extensions which bring back many of the aforementioned 'classic' UX elements. The downsides of extensions are that (a) there is no guarantee that they will work with a new shell release - you often have to wait for your favourite extension to be ported and (b) there's so many of them, which often do very similar things - choice is always hard. Just throwing in questions on minimizing the problem of updates breaking gnome-shell extensions, obviously: Can we make testing beta versions (and porting extensions to the next major version of GNOME) more attractive / easier for extension authors? Have Shell maintainers published info on Code changes which may affect extensions in the past? Putting this into the release notes feels a bit too late. Yes, you need daily images or some way to make images so that you can grab them off of images.gnome.org or something and then test it. I've been looking at this from a sysadmin perspective. What walters want will take some time though as we need to do some clean up. Of course, I think that would mean that we will be a lot more conservative about build breakages. But that's a discussion for another time. andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
hi Andre; On 21 November 2012 13:27, Andre Klapper ak...@gmx.net wrote: Can we make testing beta versions (and porting extensions to the next major version of GNOME) more attractive / easier for extension authors? Have Shell maintainers published info on Code changes which may affect extensions in the past? Putting this into the release notes feels a bit too late. you're definitely correct. we should have some form of limited QA for the most highly rated extensions. Firefox has the same issue, and a lot of grief has been eliminated by working closely, during the development process, with the extension authors whenever a change was scheduled. nothing's perfect, obviously, but it helped in having extensions working right after a new release. ciao, Emmanuele. -- W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fallback mode is going away - what now ?
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Emmanuele Bassi eba...@gmail.com wrote: hi Andre; On 21 November 2012 13:27, Andre Klapper ak...@gmx.net wrote: Can we make testing beta versions (and porting extensions to the next major version of GNOME) more attractive / easier for extension authors? Have Shell maintainers published info on Code changes which may affect extensions in the past? Putting this into the release notes feels a bit too late. you're definitely correct. we should have some form of limited QA for the most highly rated extensions. Firefox has the same issue, and a lot of grief has been eliminated by working closely, during the development process, with the extension authors whenever a change was scheduled. nothing's perfect, obviously, but it helped in having extensions working right after a new release. Right, and especially if you're changing extension API, extension authors should know and be able to test what is broken so that they can fix. Otherwise, I suspect most extensions can be fixed by doing a version change in the json file. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
