Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
Jean Hollis Weber wrote: Martina Waller wrote: With respect to search functions for example I would recommend to - use more indices in printed material, I am happy to report that the third edition of the Writer Guide from OOoAuthors (due to be published later this week) includes an index. (At last!) The draft index has been available for review and editing for several weeks on the OOoAuthors website, but so far no one has commented. http://oooauthors.org/en/authors/userguide2/writer/WG-index.odt/view --Jean - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Jean, I would like to have a look at the index. But although I registered to ooo Authors, I get the Insufficient privileges message when clicking the link. I guess the Writer Guide (full book, pdf) on http://oooauthors.org/en/authors/userguide2/writer/published_final/ is not the latest version, isn't it? Martina -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Technical Writer StarOffice - Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Hamburg, Germany http://www.sun.com/staroffice - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
Martina Waller wrote: Jean Hollis Weber wrote: Martina Waller wrote: With respect to search functions for example I would recommend to - use more indices in printed material, I am happy to report that the third edition of the Writer Guide from OOoAuthors (due to be published later this week) includes an index. (At last!) The draft index has been available for review and editing for several weeks on the OOoAuthors website, but so far no one has commented. http://oooauthors.org/en/authors/userguide2/writer/WG-index.odt/view I would like to have a look at the index. But although I registered to ooo Authors, I get the Insufficient privileges message when clicking the link. I guess you need to have Author privileges for that file, so I have given you that role. You should be able to get that file now. I guess the Writer Guide (full book, pdf) on http://oooauthors.org/en/authors/userguide2/writer/published_final/ is not the latest version, isn't it? No, and in fact that link doesn't go anywhere right now, so I have removed it. --Jean - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
On 2/12/07, G. Roderick Singleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now to see if I can get the index completed so we can do it. :-) I don't know what tools you are working with. But there are tools available specifically designed for creation of back-of-the-book-style subject matter indexes. OOo lags in that regard. Most of the really powerful tools are proprietary and expensive. However, if you already have a copy of WordPerfect, you might consider using it to generate the index's concordance file. WordPerfect 10 and later ship with a macro extension feature called Concord for generating concordance files. However, I would highly recommend instead using the original developer's scripts. http://www.wptoolbox.com/library/Unique.html. As noted on the linked page, Concord has not been updated since WordPerfect 10 and its documentation is less than sterling. The Unique scripts do not suffer from the same defects. The linked page has a good overview of the scripts' features. But in summary, they are a set of tools for extracting unique words from a document and manipulating them in various ways such as normalizing capitalization and lower case instances of words. Here is the author's introductory paragraph: This macro creates an alphabetical list of all the different words found in a document. It copies one example of each of the different words to a second concordance document window which, in turn, can be saved and used to index the main document. The macro searches body text, and (optionally) footnotes, endnotes, headers, footers, and graphic boxes. Other options allow for excluding minor words, numbers, or including short phrases by marking them while the macro plays. When indexing a large document, it is generally far less work to delete unwanted words from an automatically generated concordance file than it is to manually build a concordance file from scratch one term at a time. I'll echo here something I've said several times before on this list: If any OOo scripters are looking for inspiration for new extensions, the linked web site is a gold mine. The author is a retired gentleman whose hobby is developing WordPerfect scripts requested by users to solve real issues and reflect quality user feedback in their development. All of his own scripts (Library tab) are heavily commented as a teaching device and their functionality is well summarized on the web site. He also has a large collection of useful scripts contributed by other authors (Other authors tab). Hope this helps, Marbux - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 13:10 -0800, marbux wrote: On 2/12/07, G. Roderick Singleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now to see if I can get the index completed so we can do it. :-) I don't know what tools you are working with. But there are tools available specifically designed for creation of back-of-the-book-style subject matter indexes. OOo lags in that regard. Most of the really powerful tools are proprietary and expensive. However, if you already have a copy of WordPerfect, you might consider using it to generate the index's concordance file. WordPerfect 10 and later ship with a macro extension feature called Concord for generating concordance files. However, I would highly recommend instead using the original developer's scripts. http://www.wptoolbox.com/library/Unique.html. As noted on the linked page, Concord has not been updated since WordPerfect 10 and its documentation is less than sterling. The Unique scripts do not suffer from the same defects. The linked page has a good overview of the scripts' features. But in summary, they are a set of tools for extracting unique words from a document and manipulating them in various ways such as normalizing capitalization and lower case instances of words. Here is the author's introductory paragraph: This macro creates an alphabetical list of all the different words found in a document. It copies one example of each of the different words to a second concordance document window which, in turn, can be saved and used to index the main document. The macro searches body text, and (optionally) footnotes, endnotes, headers, footers, and graphic boxes. Other options allow for excluding minor words, numbers, or including short phrases by marking them while the macro plays. When indexing a large document, it is generally far less work to delete unwanted words from an automatically generated concordance file than it is to manually build a concordance file from scratch one term at a time. I'll echo here something I've said several times before on this list: If any OOo scripters are looking for inspiration for new extensions, the linked web site is a gold mine. The author is a retired gentleman whose hobby is developing WordPerfect scripts requested by users to solve real issues and reflect quality user feedback in their development. All of his own scripts (Library tab) are heavily commented as a teaching device and their functionality is well summarized on the web site. He also has a large collection of useful scripts contributed by other authors (Other authors tab). Hope this helps, Thanks. Very useful. However, you are assuming that I have time to do this task. Not so. How would you like to do this in addition to your other task? http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=66521 Sure would appreciate it. -- G. Roderick Singleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] OpenOffice.org smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 13:10 -0800, marbux wrote:
On 2/12/07, G. Roderick Singleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Now to see if I can get the index completed so we can do it. :-)
I don't know what tools you are working with. But there are tools
{snipped]
Why online_help as well? This discussion is only on dev afaik.
--
G. Roderick Singleton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OpenOffice.org
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
marbux wrote: On 2/12/07, G. Roderick Singleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now to see if I can get the index completed so we can do it. :-) I don't know what tools you are working with. ... However, if you already have a copy of WordPerfect, you might consider using it to generate the index's concordance file. WordPerfect 10 and later ship with a macro extension feature called Concord for generating concordance files. ... Another tool that can build a concordance from ODF files: http://www.niederlandistik.fu-berlin.de/textstat/software-en.html I've not used it myself, only seen others link to it, but it could be worth a look. Joe - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
i am using textstat tool.. ready for tasking orders. From: Joe Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: dev@documentation.openoffice.org To: dev@documentation.openoffice.org Subject: Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:41:04 -0500 marbux wrote: On 2/12/07, G. Roderick Singleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now to see if I can get the index completed so we can do it. :-) I don't know what tools you are working with. ... However, if you already have a copy of WordPerfect, you might consider using it to generate the index's concordance file. WordPerfect 10 and later ship with a macro extension feature called Concord for generating concordance files. ... Another tool that can build a concordance from ODF files: http://www.niederlandistik.fu-berlin.de/textstat/software-en.html I've not used it myself, only seen others link to it, but it could be worth a look. Joe - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
On 2/13/07, G. Roderick Singleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 13:10 -0800, marbux wrote: On 2/12/07, G. Roderick Singleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now to see if I can get the index completed so we can do it. :-) Thanks. Very useful. However, you are assuming that I have time to do this task. Not so. How would you like to do this in addition to your other task? http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=66521 Sure would appreciate it. Sorry, I misunderstood your first sentence quoted above as meaning that this was a project you were working on. I'm afraid I don't yet even have time for the project I've already agreed to take on. Still busy turning back the Microsoft challenge to ODF with Ecma 376's submission to ISO. :-) Best regards, Marbux - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
Hi all, Recently, I analyzed the documentation of several competitors (Microsoft Office, WordPerfect Office, SoftMaker Office, GNOME Office and KOffice). Underlying analysis criteria were languages, documentation types (printed and online), search functions, information types, visualization, navigation and organization of the contents. In the end, I wanted to give some recommendations for OpenOffice/StarOffice. With respect to search functions for example I would recommend to - use more indices in printed material, and in the help - create an application specific contents tab, - allow search for similar words, - repair the full text search, - combine index and full text search into one search box. I would like to discuss the recommendations and some open questions with you. So, if someone is interested in the full analysis document please let me know. I would then send it as an attachment to your personal email address. Or does anyone know a site where I can put it so that everyone interested in the subject can download it? Thanks Martina - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 13:05 +0100, Martina Waller wrote: Hi all, Recently, I analyzed the documentation of several competitors (Microsoft Office, WordPerfect Office, SoftMaker Office, GNOME Office and KOffice). Underlying analysis criteria were languages, documentation types (printed and online), search functions, information types, visualization, navigation and organization of the contents. In the end, I wanted to give some recommendations for OpenOffice/StarOffice. With respect to search functions for example I would recommend to - use more indices in printed material, Good idea. We had an indexer but she had to give up the task unfortunately for OOo User Guide and we are searching for someone else to take on the task. You? and in the help - create an application specific contents tab, Please explain. Help usually presents help specific to the open application. e.g. if you are in writer you get writer help. So we need to know how you would like to change this feature. - allow search for similar words, This needs explaining too. Entering, say lin, in the search box currently presents help items that start with this sequence thus giving users the opportunity to select further. - repair the full text search, Repair? Enhance sure sounds good. Have you filed an issue in Issue Tracker for this? - combine index and full text search into one search box. I would like to discuss the recommendations and some open questions with you. So, if someone is interested in the full analysis document please let me know. I would then send it as an attachment to your personal email address. Or does anyone know a site where I can put it so that everyone interested in the subject can download it? I think that your idea about indexing is good and I agree but the project needs to recruit someone with indexing skills. Can you help? WRT, help enhancements, you might like to subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] where the Sun help team address and answer questions such as yours. You already have one answer in this list. To do so send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] otherwise your messages are moderated. -- PLEASE KEEP MESSAGES ON THE LIST. OpenOffice.org Documentation Co-Lead http://documentation.openoffice.org/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
G. Roderick Singleton wrote: - allow search for similar words, This needs explaining too. Entering, say lin, in the search box currently presents help items that start with this sequence thus giving users the opportunity to select further. - repair the full text search, Repair? Enhance sure sounds good. Have you filed an issue in Issue Tracker for this? There is an issue for the broken full text search engine. Development is aware of that and currently working on a reimplementation. - combine index and full text search into one search box. I would like to discuss the recommendations and some open questions with you. So, if someone is interested in the full analysis document please let me know. I would then send it as an attachment to your personal email address. Or does anyone know a site where I can put it so that everyone interested in the subject can download it? I think that your idea about indexing is good and I agree but the project needs to recruit someone with indexing skills. Can you help? WRT, help enhancements, you might like to subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] where the Sun help team address and answer questions such as yours. You already have one answer in this list. To do so send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] otherwise your messages are moderated. Hehe, Martina *is* on the Sun help team and she cross-posted the message to both dev and online_help. Pretty early in the morning for you, eh? ;-) Frank - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
Frank Peters wrote: G. Roderick Singleton wrote: - allow search for similar words, This needs explaining too. Entering, say lin, in the search box currently presents help items that start with this sequence thus giving users the opportunity to select further. - repair the full text search, Repair? Enhance sure sounds good. Have you filed an issue in Issue Tracker for this? There is an issue for the broken full text search engine. Development is aware of that and currently working on a reimplementation. http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=45826 ain - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 13:51 +0100, Frank Peters wrote: G. Roderick Singleton wrote: - allow search for similar words, This needs explaining too. Entering, say lin, in the search box currently presents help items that start with this sequence thus giving users the opportunity to select further. - repair the full text search, Repair? Enhance sure sounds good. Have you filed an issue in Issue Tracker for this? There is an issue for the broken full text search engine. Development is aware of that and currently working on a reimplementation. - combine index and full text search into one search box. I would like to discuss the recommendations and some open questions with you. So, if someone is interested in the full analysis document please let me know. I would then send it as an attachment to your personal email address. Or does anyone know a site where I can put it so that everyone interested in the subject can download it? I think that your idea about indexing is good and I agree but the project needs to recruit someone with indexing skills. Can you help? WRT, help enhancements, you might like to subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] where the Sun help team address and answer questions such as yours. You already have one answer in this list. To do so send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] otherwise your messages are moderated. Hehe, Martina *is* on the Sun help team and she cross-posted the message to both dev and online_help. Pretty early in the morning for you, eh? ;-) It is and I noticed that her message to online_help was moderated so added the suggestion. Surprized you hadn't spotted that. :-) -- G. Roderick Singleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] OpenOffice.org smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
G. Roderick Singleton wrote: On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 13:05 +0100, Martina Waller wrote: Hi all, Recently, I analyzed the documentation of several competitors (Microsoft Office, WordPerfect Office, SoftMaker Office, GNOME Office and KOffice). Underlying analysis criteria were languages, documentation types (printed and online), search functions, information types, visualization, navigation and organization of the contents. In the end, I wanted to give some recommendations for OpenOffice/StarOffice. With respect to search functions for example I would recommend to - use more indices in printed material, Good idea. We had an indexer but she had to give up the task unfortunately for OOo User Guide and we are searching for someone else to take on the task. You? I really feel flattered that you want me as an indexer for the User Guide. But given the fact that this Guide is a very big beast of more than 400 pages and I am working only part-time I fear that I have not enough time for the whole project. But I could imagine to edit the index when it is drafted. and in the help - create an application specific contents tab, Please explain. Help usually presents help specific to the open application. e.g. if you are in writer you get writer help. So we need to know how you would like to change this feature. The contents tab (left side of the help window) is the only tab that is not application specific. There are always the same folders listed. - allow search for similar words, This needs explaining too. Entering, say lin, in the search box currently presents help items that start with this sequence thus giving users the opportunity to select further. Users often make spelling mistakes when they enter words in search boxes. A search for similar words would automatically generate an idea of the correct spelled word. Martina - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
Hi, Ain Vagula wrote: Frank Peters wrote: There is an issue for the broken full text search engine. Development is aware of that and currently working on a reimplementation. http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=45826 and http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=38553 and http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=61820 yes, they are aware since 2004, but not much progress :-( Uwe -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Technical Writer StarOffice - Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Hamburg, Germany http://www.sun.com/staroffice http://documentation.openoffice.org/online_help/index.html http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:OnlineHelp http://blogs.sun.com/oootnt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
Martina Waller wrote: G. Roderick Singleton wrote: On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 13:05 +0100, Martina Waller wrote: Hi all, Recently, I analyzed the documentation of several competitors (Microsoft Office, WordPerfect Office, SoftMaker Office, GNOME Office and KOffice). Underlying analysis criteria were languages, documentation types (printed and online), search functions, information types, visualization, navigation and organization of the contents. In the end, I wanted to give some recommendations for OpenOffice/StarOffice. With respect to search functions for example I would recommend to - use more indices in printed material, Good idea. We had an indexer but she had to give up the task unfortunately for OOo User Guide and we are searching for someone else to take on the task. You? I really feel flattered that you want me as an indexer for the User Guide. But given the fact that this Guide is a very big beast of more than 400 pages and I am working only part-time I fear that I have not enough time for the whole project. But I could imagine to edit the index when it is drafted. and in the help - create an application specific contents tab, Please explain. Help usually presents help specific to the open application. e.g. if you are in writer you get writer help. So we need to know how you would like to change this feature. The contents tab (left side of the help window) is the only tab that is not application specific. There are always the same folders listed. - allow search for similar words, This needs explaining too. Entering, say lin, in the search box currently presents help items that start with this sequence thus giving users the opportunity to select further. Users often make spelling mistakes when they enter words in search boxes. A search for similar words would automatically generate an idea of the correct spelled word. It's not even about spelling, many languages have cases, eg. I search word in nominative case but it appears in index in genitive or dative case, therefore such suggestions were very useful. ain - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 14:38 +0100, Martina Waller wrote: G. Roderick Singleton wrote: On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 13:05 +0100, Martina Waller wrote: Hi all, Recently, I analyzed the documentation of several competitors (Microsoft Office, WordPerfect Office, SoftMaker Office, GNOME Office and KOffice). Underlying analysis criteria were languages, documentation types (printed and online), search functions, information types, visualization, navigation and organization of the contents. In the end, I wanted to give some recommendations for OpenOffice/StarOffice. With respect to search functions for example I would recommend to - use more indices in printed material, Good idea. We had an indexer but she had to give up the task unfortunately for OOo User Guide and we are searching for someone else to take on the task. You? I really feel flattered that you want me as an indexer for the User Guide. But given the fact that this Guide is a very big beast of more than 400 pages and I am working only part-time I fear that I have not enough time for the whole project. But I could imagine to edit the index when it is drafted. I will remember and take you up on your offer. It would be a big help. Now to see if I can get the index completed so we can do it. :-) and in the help - create an application specific contents tab, Please explain. Help usually presents help specific to the open application. e.g. if you are in writer you get writer help. So we need to know how you would like to change this feature. The contents tab (left side of the help window) is the only tab that is not application specific. There are always the same folders listed. Ah, I see. I have no idea at the moment on how one could do this. I will think on it and add anything constructive to the discussion on the online_help list. - allow search for similar words, This needs explaining too. Entering, say lin, in the search box currently presents help items that start with this sequence thus giving users the opportunity to select further. Users often make spelling mistakes when they enter words in search boxes. A search for similar words would automatically generate an idea of the correct spelled word. Hmm, I understand. Fuzzy logic. Again not certain how this could be implemented considering how help is built. Again I will think on it and see if I can come up with some suggestions to put on the online_help list. -- G. Roderick Singleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] OpenOffice.org smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
Hello, Uwe Fischer schrieb: Hi, Ain Vagula wrote: Frank Peters wrote: There is an issue for the broken full text search engine. Development is aware of that and currently working on a reimplementation. http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=45826 and http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=38553 and http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=61820 yes, they are aware since 2004, but not much progress :-( And another one: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=53299 kind regards Regina - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [documentation-dev] analysis of competitor documentation
Martina Waller wrote: With respect to search functions for example I would recommend to - use more indices in printed material, I am happy to report that the third edition of the Writer Guide from OOoAuthors (due to be published later this week) includes an index. (At last!) The draft index has been available for review and editing for several weeks on the OOoAuthors website, but so far no one has commented. http://oooauthors.org/en/authors/userguide2/writer/WG-index.odt/view --Jean - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
