Re: Re: Re: Maven plugin naming pattern
If you do a quick search on Central, you'll that even other Apache project don't adhere to this convention. Should they receive a CD too? Michael We just need to show best effort to defend our trademark... if we *see* anyone doing that then we have to send them CD letters... Note: my understanding is that we only have to send CD letters when we know somebody is abusing our mark... we don't necessarily have to go actively looking for people abusing our mark... just if we went looking and found any then we have to send them CDs quite quickly On 10 October 2014 12:45, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com wrote: We, the PMC, agreed to allow permitted usage of the form ___-maven-plugin as that clarified that the plugin was a plugin for maven not one produced by maven Yea, I know, and I'm not opposed to making the tooling more obstreperous. I'm just warning people not to have high hopes of enforcement for anyone who chooses to hack the tooling and not cooperate. On 10 October 2014 12:40, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: Keep in mind that what we have here is almost certainly a _convention_, not a point of trademark law. As I understand it, we'd as likely be laughed at for the suggestion that reversing the order of the components of a name leads to 'marketplace confusion' at the level at which trademarks can be enforced. On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:25 AM, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: They should rename going forward. At some point (probably we could do so now) we will turn on enforcement in the maven-plugin-plugin. This will of course piss of a lot of people. Wouldn't it? There are, of course, several reasons why people can't: 1. Popularity of the old name 2. Technical reasons 3. Name collisions etc. Even if we enforce this, this should not happen before Maven 4 and should be added to the plugin dev center. Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: Re: Re: Maven plugin naming pattern
Yes On 10 October 2014 13:12, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: If you do a quick search on Central, you'll that even other Apache project don't adhere to this convention. Should they receive a CD too? Michael We just need to show best effort to defend our trademark... if we *see* anyone doing that then we have to send them CD letters... Note: my understanding is that we only have to send CD letters when we know somebody is abusing our mark... we don't necessarily have to go actively looking for people abusing our mark... just if we went looking and found any then we have to send them CDs quite quickly On 10 October 2014 12:45, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com wrote: We, the PMC, agreed to allow permitted usage of the form ___-maven-plugin as that clarified that the plugin was a plugin for maven not one produced by maven Yea, I know, and I'm not opposed to making the tooling more obstreperous. I'm just warning people not to have high hopes of enforcement for anyone who chooses to hack the tooling and not cooperate. On 10 October 2014 12:40, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: Keep in mind that what we have here is almost certainly a _convention_, not a point of trademark law. As I understand it, we'd as likely be laughed at for the suggestion that reversing the order of the components of a name leads to 'marketplace confusion' at the level at which trademarks can be enforced. On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:25 AM, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: They should rename going forward. At some point (probably we could do so now) we will turn on enforcement in the maven-plugin-plugin. This will of course piss of a lot of people. Wouldn't it? There are, of course, several reasons why people can't: 1. Popularity of the old name 2. Technical reasons 3. Name collisions etc. Even if we enforce this, this should not happen before Maven 4 and should be added to the plugin dev center. Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: Re: Re: Maven plugin naming pattern
Thankfully for you, you are not on the PMC... if you were on the PMC and you did such a search you would then have to go and send CDs. /me runs away from this thread in case I happen to be made aware of any trademark misuse ;-) On 10 October 2014 13:39, Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com wrote: Yes On 10 October 2014 13:12, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: If you do a quick search on Central, you'll that even other Apache project don't adhere to this convention. Should they receive a CD too? Michael We just need to show best effort to defend our trademark... if we *see* anyone doing that then we have to send them CD letters... Note: my understanding is that we only have to send CD letters when we know somebody is abusing our mark... we don't necessarily have to go actively looking for people abusing our mark... just if we went looking and found any then we have to send them CDs quite quickly On 10 October 2014 12:45, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com wrote: We, the PMC, agreed to allow permitted usage of the form ___-maven-plugin as that clarified that the plugin was a plugin for maven not one produced by maven Yea, I know, and I'm not opposed to making the tooling more obstreperous. I'm just warning people not to have high hopes of enforcement for anyone who chooses to hack the tooling and not cooperate. On 10 October 2014 12:40, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: Keep in mind that what we have here is almost certainly a _convention_, not a point of trademark law. As I understand it, we'd as likely be laughed at for the suggestion that reversing the order of the components of a name leads to 'marketplace confusion' at the level at which trademarks can be enforced. On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:25 AM, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: They should rename going forward. At some point (probably we could do so now) we will turn on enforcement in the maven-plugin-plugin. This will of course piss of a lot of people. Wouldn't it? There are, of course, several reasons why people can't: 1. Popularity of the old name 2. Technical reasons 3. Name collisions etc. Even if we enforce this, this should not happen before Maven 4 and should be added to the plugin dev center. Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: Re: Re: Re: Maven plugin naming pattern
Yes, resposibility isn't always good. Shouldn't simply make the build fail instead of log when such a collision happens? Michael Thankfully for you, you are not on the PMC... if you were on the PMC and you did such a search you would then have to go and send CDs. /me runs away from this thread in case I happen to be made aware of any trademark misuse ;-) On 10 October 2014 13:39, Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com wrote: Yes On 10 October 2014 13:12, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: If you do a quick search on Central, you'll that even other Apache project don't adhere to this convention. Should they receive a CD too? Michael We just need to show best effort to defend our trademark... if we *see* anyone doing that then we have to send them CD letters... Note: my understanding is that we only have to send CD letters when we know somebody is abusing our mark... we don't necessarily have to go actively looking for people abusing our mark... just if we went looking and found any then we have to send them CDs quite quickly On 10 October 2014 12:45, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com wrote: We, the PMC, agreed to allow permitted usage of the form ___-maven-plugin as that clarified that the plugin was a plugin for maven not one produced by maven Yea, I know, and I'm not opposed to making the tooling more obstreperous. I'm just warning people not to have high hopes of enforcement for anyone who chooses to hack the tooling and not cooperate. On 10 October 2014 12:40, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: Keep in mind that what we have here is almost certainly a _convention_, not a point of trademark law. As I understand it, we'd as likely be laughed at for the suggestion that reversing the order of the components of a name leads to 'marketplace confusion' at the level at which trademarks can be enforced. On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:25 AM, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: They should rename going forward. At some point (probably we could do so now) we will turn on enforcement in the maven-plugin-plugin. This will of course piss of a lot of people. Wouldn't it? There are, of course, several reasons why people can't: 1. Popularity of the old name 2. Technical reasons 3. Name collisions etc. Even if we enforce this, this should not happen before Maven 4 and should be added to the plugin dev center. Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: Re: Re: Re: Maven plugin naming pattern
That was the plan 3 years ago we decided to warn first and then switch on failing after a while... now is a good time, perhaps you could commit the change to fail the build? On 10 October 2014 13:48, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: Yes, resposibility isn't always good. Shouldn't simply make the build fail instead of log when such a collision happens? Michael Thankfully for you, you are not on the PMC... if you were on the PMC and you did such a search you would then have to go and send CDs. /me runs away from this thread in case I happen to be made aware of any trademark misuse ;-) On 10 October 2014 13:39, Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com wrote: Yes On 10 October 2014 13:12, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: If you do a quick search on Central, you'll that even other Apache project don't adhere to this convention. Should they receive a CD too? Michael We just need to show best effort to defend our trademark... if we *see* anyone doing that then we have to send them CD letters... Note: my understanding is that we only have to send CD letters when we know somebody is abusing our mark... we don't necessarily have to go actively looking for people abusing our mark... just if we went looking and found any then we have to send them CDs quite quickly On 10 October 2014 12:45, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com wrote: We, the PMC, agreed to allow permitted usage of the form ___-maven-plugin as that clarified that the plugin was a plugin for maven not one produced by maven Yea, I know, and I'm not opposed to making the tooling more obstreperous. I'm just warning people not to have high hopes of enforcement for anyone who chooses to hack the tooling and not cooperate. On 10 October 2014 12:40, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: Keep in mind that what we have here is almost certainly a _convention_, not a point of trademark law. As I understand it, we'd as likely be laughed at for the suggestion that reversing the order of the components of a name leads to 'marketplace confusion' at the level at which trademarks can be enforced. On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:25 AM, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: They should rename going forward. At some point (probably we could do so now) we will turn on enforcement in the maven-plugin-plugin. This will of course piss of a lot of people. Wouldn't it? There are, of course, several reasons why people can't: 1. Popularity of the old name 2. Technical reasons 3. Name collisions etc. Even if we enforce this, this should not happen before Maven 4 and should be added to the plugin dev center. Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Maven plugin naming pattern
Fine, I'd like to note that first: 1. Shouldn't we announce this publically on the users mailing list? 2. I think that this deserves a major bump in plugin version. WDYT? Michael Gesendet: Freitag, 10. Oktober 2014 um 15:23 Uhr Von: Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com An: Maven Developers List dev@maven.apache.org Betreff: Re: Re: Re: Re: Maven plugin naming pattern That was the plan 3 years ago we decided to warn first and then switch on failing after a while... now is a good time, perhaps you could commit the change to fail the build? On 10 October 2014 13:48, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: Yes, resposibility isn't always good. Shouldn't simply make the build fail instead of log when such a collision happens? Michael Thankfully for you, you are not on the PMC... if you were on the PMC and you did such a search you would then have to go and send CDs. /me runs away from this thread in case I happen to be made aware of any trademark misuse ;-) On 10 October 2014 13:39, Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com wrote: Yes On 10 October 2014 13:12, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: If you do a quick search on Central, you'll that even other Apache project don't adhere to this convention. Should they receive a CD too? Michael We just need to show best effort to defend our trademark... if we *see* anyone doing that then we have to send them CD letters... Note: my understanding is that we only have to send CD letters when we know somebody is abusing our mark... we don't necessarily have to go actively looking for people abusing our mark... just if we went looking and found any then we have to send them CDs quite quickly On 10 October 2014 12:45, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com wrote: We, the PMC, agreed to allow permitted usage of the form ___-maven-plugin as that clarified that the plugin was a plugin for maven not one produced by maven Yea, I know, and I'm not opposed to making the tooling more obstreperous. I'm just warning people not to have high hopes of enforcement for anyone who chooses to hack the tooling and not cooperate. On 10 October 2014 12:40, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: Keep in mind that what we have here is almost certainly a _convention_, not a point of trademark law. As I understand it, we'd as likely be laughed at for the suggestion that reversing the order of the components of a name leads to 'marketplace confusion' at the level at which trademarks can be enforced. On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:25 AM, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: They should rename going forward. At some point (probably we could do so now) we will turn on enforcement in the maven-plugin-plugin. This will of course piss of a lot of people. Wouldn't it? There are, of course, several reasons why people can't: 1. Popularity of the old name 2. Technical reasons 3. Name collisions etc. Even if we enforce this, this should not happen before Maven 4 and should be added to the plugin dev center. Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Maven plugin naming pattern
I would prefer this should be part of Maven Core's warning system. If the plugin starts with maven- and it's not an org.apache.maven.plugins group, then we should spit out the error. I am not sure enforcer is the right place for this rule; this is more of a global problem than a suggestion for good practice. Cheers, Paul On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: Fine, I'd like to note that first: 1. Shouldn't we announce this publically on the users mailing list? 2. I think that this deserves a major bump in plugin version. WDYT? Michael Gesendet: Freitag, 10. Oktober 2014 um 15:23 Uhr Von: Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com An: Maven Developers List dev@maven.apache.org Betreff: Re: Re: Re: Re: Maven plugin naming pattern That was the plan 3 years ago we decided to warn first and then switch on failing after a while... now is a good time, perhaps you could commit the change to fail the build? On 10 October 2014 13:48, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: Yes, resposibility isn't always good. Shouldn't simply make the build fail instead of log when such a collision happens? Michael Thankfully for you, you are not on the PMC... if you were on the PMC and you did such a search you would then have to go and send CDs. /me runs away from this thread in case I happen to be made aware of any trademark misuse ;-) On 10 October 2014 13:39, Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com wrote: Yes On 10 October 2014 13:12, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: If you do a quick search on Central, you'll that even other Apache project don't adhere to this convention. Should they receive a CD too? Michael We just need to show best effort to defend our trademark... if we *see* anyone doing that then we have to send them CD letters... Note: my understanding is that we only have to send CD letters when we know somebody is abusing our mark... we don't necessarily have to go actively looking for people abusing our mark... just if we went looking and found any then we have to send them CDs quite quickly On 10 October 2014 12:45, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com wrote: We, the PMC, agreed to allow permitted usage of the form ___-maven-plugin as that clarified that the plugin was a plugin for maven not one produced by maven Yea, I know, and I'm not opposed to making the tooling more obstreperous. I'm just warning people not to have high hopes of enforcement for anyone who chooses to hack the tooling and not cooperate. On 10 October 2014 12:40, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: Keep in mind that what we have here is almost certainly a _convention_, not a point of trademark law. As I understand it, we'd as likely be laughed at for the suggestion that reversing the order of the components of a name leads to 'marketplace confusion' at the level at which trademarks can be enforced. On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:25 AM, Michael Osipov 1983-01...@gmx.net wrote: They should rename going forward. At some point (probably we could do so now) we will turn on enforcement in the maven-plugin-plugin. This will of course piss of a lot of people. Wouldn't it? There are, of course, several reasons why people can't: 1. Popularity of the old name 2. Technical reasons 3. Name collisions etc. Even if we enforce this, this should not happen before Maven 4 and should be added to the plugin dev center. Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
