Re: AOO Governance (was RE: Next release and gbuild)

[Marcus]

Am 03/18/2016 03:18 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:

When I was working I gave up some of my freedom to do what I wanted in
exchange for being paid to do what other people told me.

I retired when I had accumulated enough investments that the financial
improvement from the money Sun was paying me no longer outweighed the
benefit of being able to decide for myself what to do with my time. My
10 a.m. horseback riding lesson this morning will be far higher priority
than OpenOffice debug.

I do not see being a "Release Manager" as carrying any authority at all
over others. I might need to persuade, suggest, beg, and plead, but I
would not expect to be able to compel, not even to the limited extent I
could when I was a project leader in industry.


exactly. There is no disciplinary power in the role of a release 
manager. It's more a role - instead of a job title - to make sure that a 
release will happen.


You can a) do all things alone, b) do some tasks together with a team or 
c) nearly nothing except to pull the strings to make sure there will be 
a release at all. I think you would prefer point b).



If the term "Release Manager" is creating an idea of a job something
like being a manager in industry, maybe we need a more realistic term
such as "Keeper of the Release Checklist".


BTW:
There is already one [1] in case you don't know yet.

[1] 
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Release+Planning+Template


Marcus




On 3/18/2016 5:20 AM, donaldupre . wrote:

In the same way management in your professional experience handled
disagreement, disrespect, waste, inefficiency etc. that sometimes happen
when people work together.
You did offer to learn to be a release manager, it means that some
sort of
"management" is needed?
How someone here suggested making a release without a manger is beyond
me...

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 1:20 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:


I am really, really curious. How would you recommend the hypothetical
AOO
management hierarchy go about compelling me to do anything?

On 3/17/2016 10:41 AM, donaldupre . wrote:


Not only it is possible to compel, it is imperative for a viable
project.
As Stalin once said, "When there's a person, there's a problem." :)


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Re: Next release and gbuild

[Damjan Jovanovic]

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 8:46 PM, Pedro Giffuni  wrote:
> Hello;
>
> I have been noticing damjan's great advance in merging the gbuild stuff.
>
> IMO, this is a great thing that will likely be unnoticed by our users
> as it has no real effect on the binaries but it is significant in improving
> the build experience.
>
> Now, it appears the only thing holding a new release is a lack of
> leadership within the community. Either someone steps in or we just have a
> team of people do things. In any case I think a gbuild merge
> forces to take some consideration.
>
> Given the changes will be big, if we want a new release code soonish,
> we should branch AOO42 before the merge, avoiding any potential risk.
> If we are still taking longer, say 1-2 months, then we have ample time to
> sort out any eventual issue and we shouldn't worry about it.
>
> Of course we can merge gbuild and then fork from a past point anytime,
> but now is a good time to decide about releases.

All the gbuild branch patches have now been ported to the
gbuild-integration branch. Please don't start testing yet: let me fix
the sd inconsistencies, do a RAT scan and investigate any wrongly
licensed files, compare bvt and fvt qa test results with trunk, and
check for other obvious bugs before we start testing other platforms.

> Thinking about gbuild and what follows ...
>
> First of all congratulation to Damjan, this is very cool.

Thank you, and can the rest of you please make similar contributions ;-) ?

> From my perspective, it's OK to depend on two or more build tools (we
> do use ant, etc) as long as one of them is not DMake, so if we want
> to use scons, I am fine with it but we will have to move Python to
> gbuild. Things are looking fun ;).
>

A lot of my initial enthusiasm about SCons faded after I saw it had
problems with MSVC on Cygwin, the authors themselves admitted SCons is
slow for large projects, and the KDE project tried using it for about
a year and then gave up and moved to something else (CMake?).

I am not sure gbuild has the ability to run configure+make yet the way
dmake does.

In the short term I plan some more improvements to gbuild, like fixing
--enable-symbols to do the same thing on dmake and gbuild modules.

> Regards,
>
> Pedro.
>

Regards
Damjan

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RE: [OT] ApacheCon

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

I thought about it, since the travel part is easy.  

I decided to avoid the expense of the conference and accomodations and stay 
home though.

 - Dennis

> -Original Message-
> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 17:24
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: [OT] ApacheCon
> 
> Are any of you planning to attend the North America ApacheCon? I have
> not yet decided whether to go.
> 
> Patricia
> 
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Orientation Level Completed

[Candaises Williams]

Good Morning,

My names is Candaises Williams, and I am emailing you to inform you that I
have completed the Orientation Level of ASF.

-- 

*Warmest Regards,*

*Ms. Candaises C. Williams*


*“There are two ways of spreading light: *

*To be the candle or the mirror that reflects it.” ― **Edith Wharton*



*“An attitude of positive expectation is the mark of the superior
personality.” ― **Brian Tracy*

[CWiki] Account Whitelisting

[Candaises Williams]

Username: Candaises C. Williams
Real Name: Candaises C. WIlliams

-- 

*Warmest Regards,*

*Ms. Candaises C. Williams*


*“There are two ways of spreading light: *

*To be the candle or the mirror that reflects it.” ― **Edith Wharton*



*“An attitude of positive expectation is the mark of the superior
personality.” ― **Brian Tracy*

Infrastructure Level Completed

[Candaises Williams]

FYI, I have just completed the above level.

-- 

*Warmest Regards,*

*Ms. Candaises C. Williams*


*“There are two ways of spreading light: *

*To be the candle or the mirror that reflects it.” ― **Edith Wharton*



*“An attitude of positive expectation is the mark of the superior
personality.” ― **Brian Tracy*

[OT] ApacheCon

[Patricia Shanahan]

Are any of you planning to attend the North America ApacheCon? I have 
not yet decided whether to go.


Patricia

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Re: Next release and gbuild

[donaldupre .]

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 8:46 PM, Pedro Giffuni  wrote:

> Either someone steps in or we just have a team of people do things.
>

Holacracy is not a good idea.

Re: [OT] ApacheCon

[Pedro Giffuni]

Hi Patricia;

I understand OpenOffice.org started it's life in Germany, and for some
posibly related reason AOO usually has more presence at ApacheConEU
than in the NA event.

Cheers,

Pedro.

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Re: AOO Governance (was RE: Next release and gbuild)

[Marcus]

Am 03/17/2016 09:00 PM, schrieb Pedro Giffuni:

Hello;

I don't know (or care) what donaldupre meant by that "holacracy"
thing but the ASF does have clear governance structures.

Concerning a Release Manager I found this:

http://www.apache.org/dev/release-publishing.html#release_manager

"The common practice at Apache is for a single individual to take
responsibility for the mechanics of a release."

Note that that common practice doesn't make it mandatory (although
pretty much a hint in the right direction). However the link also
states:

"Release managers do the work of pushing out releases. However, release
managers are not ultimately responsible."

I brought the subject the release management being done by a group of
people before the previous release based on some older document from
the apache httpd project, I will not repeat again that idea, but I think
that instead of focusing on find ing one brave sould to do everything,
the community would do better to focus on a *group* doing things.


right, in the past this was also already done. E.g., Jürgen has taken 
over the hat as release maanger. However, he has done "only" the Mac and 
Windows builds. But Ariel has done all Linux builds and others have 
taken care for release notes, website updates, release announcement, 
blog post, etc.



If one person bears all the responsibilities including building for Mac,
Windows and Linux then it is going to be increasingly difficult
to find a new release manager each time.


For sure. And I don't know anybody who can do all these things alone. 
IMHO the most difficult thing is to find people (plural ;-) ) that can 
build on all platforms we need *with the same* build configuration. This 
is an absolutely "must have" as we want comparable builds even when they 
are done on different platforms.


Then others can do the work when the builds are ready, starting with 
distributing to the mirrors.



What is also increasingly clear to me is that a release won't happen
immediately soon, even when technically we would be ready for one.


For 4.2.0 we should take more time than previously done for testing. I'm 
pretty sure there are some bugs that should be fixed for the final 
version. ;-) And this needs time.


The good thing is that we are still (a bit) at the beginning of the 
year. So, when we agree to do a new release until the summer vacation 
starts around the world, then this would be great.


My 2 ct.

Marcus


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Re: AOO Governance (was RE: Next release and gbuild)

[Patricia Shanahan]

I am really, really curious. How would you recommend the hypothetical 
AOO management hierarchy go about compelling me to do anything?


On 3/17/2016 10:41 AM, donaldupre . wrote:

Not only it is possible to compel, it is imperative for a viable project.
As Stalin once said, "When there's a person, there's a problem." :)


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Re: Debug on Windows

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 3/16/2016 4:37 PM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 1:09 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:




On 3/16/2016 12:07 PM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:


On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:




On 3/16/2016 11:24 AM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:


On 3/14/2016 10:49 AM, Oliver Brinzing wrote:



Hi Patricia,



Has anyone nailed getting e.g. windbg running with AOO on Windows? If
so,

I have some questions.



better try with vs 2013 community edition 

I remember I had a lot of trouble with windbg.


Thanks for the tip - it does work better than windbg.


However, I seem to have a problem with it not loading all the symbols,
so
I cannot set a breakpoint where I want.

My general procedure is to build AOO with configure parameter
--enable-symbols. I unzip the archive version, copy soffice.bin, and
rename
the copy sofficebin.exe.

In Visual Studio, I do File-Open-Project/Solution and select my
sofficebin.exe. It seems to do some symbol loading, but not the module
I
want.

Anyone have any suggestions?


Which module are you trying to debug this way? --enable-symbols only


seems
to work for dmake modules, gbuild modules don't get any debug symbols. I
have a preliminary fix.



I was trying to debug in main/tools/source/generic.



main/tools uses gbuild, so it won't have debug symbols with
--enable-symbols.

As a workaround, after "source winenv.set.sh", "cd" to "tools", and run
"make clean debug=true" to rebuild it with debug symbols. Then "build
--all" from instsetoo_native to pull in that debug copy when building the
new installation package, or (much faster especially on Windows) if you
know which files it built, you can copy those yourself from solver/420/...
over the ones in your pre-existing AOO installation.



This workaround works, but I keep needing to apply it to additional
modules, which makes debug slow. Is there a list, or a quick way of
identifying, the gbuild modules so I can just remake them all?

Thanks,

Patricia



This may sound strange coming from someone that's been merging 132 gbuild
patches between branches in the last few weeks, but I am not sure what the
definitive list is:
* main/Module_ooo.mk seems to list every gbuild module, but sd is not
there, and is a gbuild module on my branch...
* gbuild modules usually have an empty /prj/d.lst, but AOO builds
when it's not empty
* gbuild modules usually have a 2 line /prj/build.lst
* gbuild modules usually have a /prj/makefile.mk, which usually
calls $(GNUMAKE) with various options. Since $(GNUMAKE) is needed to launch
the gbuild makefiles, it is a robust check, but it could theoretically be
launched from any file specified in /prj/build.lst...
* gbuild modules usually have a /Makefile

The /Makefile should be easiest for now ("ls main/*/Makefile").


I can work with that for now. It is not a disaster if I miss some, and
have to do them manually as needed. In the long term, I see a lot of AOO
debug in my future, so I have a vested interest in getting this automated.

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Re: Next release and gbuild

[Don Lewis]

On 17 Mar, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 8:46 PM, Pedro Giffuni  wrote:
>> Hello;
>>
>> I have been noticing damjan's great advance in merging the gbuild stuff.
>>
>> IMO, this is a great thing that will likely be unnoticed by our users
>> as it has no real effect on the binaries but it is significant in improving
>> the build experience.
>>
>> Now, it appears the only thing holding a new release is a lack of
>> leadership within the community. Either someone steps in or we just have a
>> team of people do things. In any case I think a gbuild merge
>> forces to take some consideration.
>>
>> Given the changes will be big, if we want a new release code soonish,
>> we should branch AOO42 before the merge, avoiding any potential risk.
>> If we are still taking longer, say 1-2 months, then we have ample time to
>> sort out any eventual issue and we shouldn't worry about it.
>>
>> Of course we can merge gbuild and then fork from a past point anytime,
>> but now is a good time to decide about releases.
> 
> All the gbuild branch patches have now been ported to the
> gbuild-integration branch. Please don't start testing yet: let me fix
> the sd inconsistencies, do a RAT scan and investigate any wrongly
> licensed files, compare bvt and fvt qa test results with trunk, and
> check for other obvious bugs before we start testing other platforms.
> 
>> Thinking about gbuild and what follows ...
>>
>> First of all congratulation to Damjan, this is very cool.
> 
> Thank you, and can the rest of you please make similar contributions ;-) ?
> 
>> From my perspective, it's OK to depend on two or more build tools (we
>> do use ant, etc) as long as one of them is not DMake, so if we want
>> to use scons, I am fine with it but we will have to move Python to
>> gbuild. Things are looking fun ;).
>>
> 
> A lot of my initial enthusiasm about SCons faded after I saw it had
> problems with MSVC on Cygwin, the authors themselves admitted SCons is
> slow for large projects, and the KDE project tried using it for about
> a year and then gave up and moved to something else (CMake?).
> 
> I am not sure gbuild has the ability to run configure+make yet the way
> dmake does.
> 
> In the short term I plan some more improvements to gbuild, like fixing
> --enable-symbols to do the same thing on dmake and gbuild modules.

Have you added $(CCNUMVER) on the gbuild side?  I've been using that on
the dmake side to tweak optimization settings on individual files on
specific compiler version and architecture combinations.  There is one
particular compiler bug that affects files on both of the gbuild and
dmake sides.  In the FreeBSD port I have to detect the compiler version
and do a global optimization change because I can't do a fine-grained
tweak on the gbuild side.

It might make sense for configure to figure out CCNUMVER and just pass
it in as another environment variable.


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Re: AOO Governance (was RE: Next release and gbuild)

[Patricia Shanahan]

When I was working I gave up some of my freedom to do what I wanted in
exchange for being paid to do what other people told me.

I retired when I had accumulated enough investments that the financial
improvement from the money Sun was paying me no longer outweighed the
benefit of being able to decide for myself what to do with my time. My
10 a.m. horseback riding lesson this morning will be far higher priority
than OpenOffice debug.

I do not see being a "Release Manager" as carrying any authority at all
over others. I might need to persuade, suggest, beg, and plead, but I
would not expect to be able to compel, not even to the limited extent I
could when I was a project leader in industry.

If the term "Release Manager" is creating an idea of a job something
like being a manager in industry, maybe we need a more realistic term
such as "Keeper of the Release Checklist".

Patricia


On 3/18/2016 5:20 AM, donaldupre . wrote:

In the same way management in your professional experience handled
disagreement, disrespect, waste, inefficiency etc. that sometimes happen
when people work together.
You did offer to learn to be a release manager, it means that some sort of
"management" is needed?
How someone here suggested making a release without a manger is beyond me...

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 1:20 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:


I am really, really curious. How would you recommend the hypothetical AOO
management hierarchy go about compelling me to do anything?

On 3/17/2016 10:41 AM, donaldupre . wrote:


Not only it is possible to compel, it is imperative for a viable project.
As Stalin once said, "When there's a person, there's a problem." :)



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AOO Governance (was RE: Next release and gbuild)

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Technically, we do not have a management hierarchy on Apache projects, although 
there are some rather limited governance roles.  There can be self-organizing 
*informal* teams that are basically people working together for some common 
within-project purpose and those are fluid and definitely self-generated.  
There is no holacracy.  It is important for onlookers to understand there is no 
executive and there is no *command* structure.  It is not possible to compel 
anything.

There is a form of status with regard to privileges, in that committers are 
trusted to review and approve the submissions of other contributors and can do 
more without oversight (while review is always possible).  There is also a 
limited form of governance invested in members of the Project Management 
Committee (PMC) which have binding votes on release candidates and on 
procedural and personnel matters such as inviting contributors to become 
committers and to become members of the PMC.  This is all striving toward 
sustainability of the project.

Effort happens here *only* if someone steps in and operates in a 
consensus-seeking manner.  What is accomplished depends on the capacity, 
capability, and willingness of such contributors.  The sustainability of the 
project depends in part on how contributed effort leads to the cultivation and 
preparation of additional contributors so that capacity is continually renewed.

Finally, there is a form of oversight, in that the project is accountable to 
the foundation for operating in accordance with the foundation bylaws and other 
principles and practices employed across Apache projects.  The Chair of the PMC 
is ratified by the Board of the Foundation and is an Officer of the Foundation 
(i.e., Apache Software Foundation Vice President for Apache OpenOffice).  The 
Chair is accountable to the Board while in all other respects being just 
another member of the PMC.  

For Apache OpenOffice, there is more about this form of operation at 
.

For an indication of the status of the project over time, the AOO quarterly 
reports to the Board included in approved Board minutes are extracted and 
collected for historical convenience at 
.  The 
latest accepted quarterly report is maintained at .

The next report (for the January-March quarter) will be submitted to the April 
20, 2016, meeting of the ASF Board.  It will be added to the history after 
subsequent approval of the minutes of that meeting. (The complete ASF Board 
Minutes that are the authoritative source of the extracts can be found via 
.)

 - Dennis

> -Original Message-
> From: donaldupre . [mailto:donaldu...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 00:11
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Next release and gbuild
> 
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 8:46 PM, Pedro Giffuni  wrote:
> 
> > Either someone steps in or we just have a team of people do things.
> >
> 
> Holacracy is not a good idea.


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Re: AOO Governance (was RE: Next release and gbuild)

[donaldupre .]

In the same way management in your professional experience handled
disagreement, disrespect, waste, inefficiency etc. that sometimes happen
when people work together.
You did offer to learn to be a release manager, it means that some sort of
"management" is needed?
How someone here suggested making a release without a manger is beyond me...

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 1:20 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

> I am really, really curious. How would you recommend the hypothetical AOO
> management hierarchy go about compelling me to do anything?
>
> On 3/17/2016 10:41 AM, donaldupre . wrote:
>
>> Not only it is possible to compel, it is imperative for a viable project.
>> As Stalin once said, "When there's a person, there's a problem." :)
>>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Debug on Windows

[Damjan Jovanovic]

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 1:43 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

>
>
> On 3/16/2016 4:37 PM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 1:09 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 3/16/2016 12:07 PM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:



> On 3/16/2016 11:24 AM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 3/14/2016 10:49 AM, Oliver Brinzing wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi Patricia,
>>>
>>>
 Has anyone nailed getting e.g. windbg running with AOO on Windows?
 If
 so,

 I have some questions.

>
>
> better try with vs 2013 community edition 
>
 I remember I had a lot of trouble with windbg.


 Thanks for the tip - it does work better than windbg.

>>>
>>> However, I seem to have a problem with it not loading all the
>>> symbols,
>>> so
>>> I cannot set a breakpoint where I want.
>>>
>>> My general procedure is to build AOO with configure parameter
>>> --enable-symbols. I unzip the archive version, copy soffice.bin, and
>>> rename
>>> the copy sofficebin.exe.
>>>
>>> In Visual Studio, I do File-Open-Project/Solution and select my
>>> sofficebin.exe. It seems to do some symbol loading, but not the
>>> module
>>> I
>>> want.
>>>
>>> Anyone have any suggestions?
>>>
>>>
>>> Which module are you trying to debug this way? --enable-symbols only
>>>
>>> seems
>> to work for dmake modules, gbuild modules don't get any debug
>> symbols. I
>> have a preliminary fix.
>>
>>
>> I was trying to debug in main/tools/source/generic.
>
>
> main/tools uses gbuild, so it won't have debug symbols with
 --enable-symbols.

 As a workaround, after "source winenv.set.sh", "cd" to "tools", and run
 "make clean debug=true" to rebuild it with debug symbols. Then "build
 --all" from instsetoo_native to pull in that debug copy when building
 the
 new installation package, or (much faster especially on Windows) if you
 know which files it built, you can copy those yourself from
 solver/420/...
 over the ones in your pre-existing AOO installation.


 This workaround works, but I keep needing to apply it to additional
>>> modules, which makes debug slow. Is there a list, or a quick way of
>>> identifying, the gbuild modules so I can just remake them all?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Patricia
>>>
>>>
>>> This may sound strange coming from someone that's been merging 132 gbuild
>> patches between branches in the last few weeks, but I am not sure what the
>> definitive list is:
>> * main/Module_ooo.mk seems to list every gbuild module, but sd is not
>> there, and is a gbuild module on my branch...
>> * gbuild modules usually have an empty /prj/d.lst, but AOO builds
>> when it's not empty
>> * gbuild modules usually have a 2 line /prj/build.lst
>> * gbuild modules usually have a /prj/makefile.mk, which usually
>> calls $(GNUMAKE) with various options. Since $(GNUMAKE) is needed to
>> launch
>> the gbuild makefiles, it is a robust check, but it could theoretically be
>> launched from any file specified in /prj/build.lst...
>> * gbuild modules usually have a /Makefile
>>
>> The /Makefile should be easiest for now ("ls main/*/Makefile").
>>
>
> I can work with that for now. It is not a disaster if I miss some, and
> have to do them manually as needed. In the long term, I see a lot of AOO
> debug in my future, so I have a vested interest in getting this automated.
>
>
>
>
This sort of patch fixes the problem for all gbuild modules on FreeBSD.
You'd have to dig around in windows.mk and use the correct flags for MSVC.
I am against committing it as the gbuild branch I am hoping to merge soon
changes how compiler flags get set, so it would need to be rewritten:

Index: AOO/main/solenv/gbuild/platform/freebsd.mk
===
--- AOO/main/solenv/gbuild/platform/freebsd.mk(revision 1733494)
+++ AOO/main/solenv/gbuild/platform/freebsd.mk(working copy)
@@ -238,6 +238,16 @@
 endif
 endif

+ifeq ($(ENABLE_SYMBOLS),TRUE)
+ifeq ($(COM),CLANG)
+gb_LinkTarget_CXXFLAGS += -ggdb3 -fno-inline
+gb_LinkTarget_CFLAGS += -ggdb3 -fno-inline
+else
+gb_LinkTarget_CXXFLAGS += -ggdb3 -finline-limit=0 -fno-inline
-fno-default-inline
+gb_LinkTarget_CFLAGS += -ggdb3 -finline-limit=0 -fno-inline
-fno-default-inline
+endif
+endif
+
 gb_LinkTarget_INCLUDE := $(filter-out %/stl, $(subst -I. , ,$(SOLARINC)))
 gb_LinkTarget_INCLUDE_STL := $(filter %/stl, $(subst -I. , ,$(SOLARINC)))

Re: AOO Governance (was RE: Next release and gbuild)

[Patricia Shanahan]

I have offered, on the PMC mailing list, to learn to be a release 
manager if necessary or desirable. The more people we have who can do a 
role, the better the chances of someone being available when needed. 
However, I would have to function as keeper-of-the-checklist, and depend 
on everyone doing what they can towards a release.


For example, I own three Apple computers, two iPhones and an Apple II. 
None of those are good candidates for building AOO. :-)


I do think we should position ourselves to do a point release very 
quickly if necessary to fix a security exploit that is out in the field 
and affecting users. I hope that never happens, but if it does...


Patricia


On 3/17/2016 1:00 PM, Pedro Giffuni wrote:

Hello;

I don't know (or care) what donaldupre meant by that "holacracy"
thing but the ASF does have clear governance structures.

Concerning a Release Manager I found this:

http://www.apache.org/dev/release-publishing.html#release_manager

"The common practice at Apache is for a single individual to take
responsibility for the mechanics of a release."

Note that that common practice doesn't make it mandatory (although
pretty much a hint in the right direction). However the link also
states:

"Release managers do the work of pushing out releases. However, release
managers are not ultimately responsible."

I brought the subject the release management being done by a group of
people before the previous release based on some older document from
the apache httpd project, I will not repeat again that idea, but I think
that instead of focusing on find ing one brave sould to do everything,
the community would do better to focus on a *group* doing things.

If one person bears all the responsibilities including building for Mac,
Windows and Linux then it is going to be increasingly difficult
to find a new release manager each time.

What is also increasingly clear to me is that a release won't happen
immediately soon, even when technically we would be ready for one.

Pedro.

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Re: Coding standards?

[Marcus]

Am 03/18/2016 09:37 AM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:

Consider the case of an if-statement with a single statement in the
"true" branch only. For example:

if( someCondition ) return;

Should it be formatted on one line, as above, or on two lines:

if( someCondition )
return;

or on four lines:

if( someCondition )
{
return;
}

I dislike the single line format because it makes placing breakpoints hard.


+1
When coding with JavaScript I also avoid using too much simplification 
like putting code in a single line.


Setting brackets for a single condition can be a good thing - especially 
if it's shared code, so that everybody can work on it and has to 
understand the algorithm. Think about the case when the condition needs 
to be extended to more lines. It's very easy to overlook the ; that ends 
the if-statement or a condition. Everything else is than executed in any 
case afterwards.


OK, here with a "return" it's unlikely to put more code behind it. ;-)

So, if or not putting brackets here is sometimes a questions of taste. 
But there is also a good argument to do it.


My 2 ct.

Marcus


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RE: AOO Governance (was RE: Next release and gbuild)

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

It seems we're having a nomenclature problem here.  At the ASF "Release 
Manager" and "Release Management" are narrow, specific terms.  AOO release 
management does not involve any abstraction that includes supervision of work 
and especially not supervision of workers.

This may be more helpful with regard to the narrow use of the term at the ASF:

, along with 

.

Note that any committer (with a registered PGP signature) can pull together a 
release, although it is the PMC that is responsible for assuring its 
acceptability and approval.  Acceptability is also in specific, narrow terms.  
See the rules for voting on releases and what those who vote approval are 
required to have done.  Read from 
 down to just before 
the Release Distribution topic.

One might advocate other ways projects operate.  Such different approaches to 
governance and execution are unavailable to projects of the Apache Software 
Foundation.  The ASF has no issue with how projects operate elsewhere.  It just 
won't be at the ASF.


 - Dennis


> -Original Message-
> From: donaldupre . [mailto:donaldu...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 05:20
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: AOO Governance (was RE: Next release and gbuild)
> 
> In the same way management in your professional experience handled
> disagreement, disrespect, waste, inefficiency etc. that sometimes happen
> when people work together.
> You did offer to learn to be a release manager, it means that some sort
> of
> "management" is needed?
> How someone here suggested making a release without a manger is beyond
> me...
> 
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 1:20 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
> 
> > I am really, really curious. How would you recommend the hypothetical
> AOO
> > management hierarchy go about compelling me to do anything?
> >
> > On 3/17/2016 10:41 AM, donaldupre . wrote:
> >
> >> Not only it is possible to compel, it is imperative for a viable
> project.
> >> As Stalin once said, "When there's a person, there's a problem." :)
> >>
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> >


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Re: New Committer: Don Lewis (truckman)

[Don Lewis]

On 13 Dec, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> [BCC AOO PMC]
> 
> The Project Management Committee (PMC) for Apache OpenOffice is pleased to
> announced that Don Lewis has accepted and taken the ID truckman.
> 
> A warm welcome to Don Lewis.
> 
> Regards,
> 
>  Dennis Hamilton, on behalf of the Apache OpenOffice PMC

Thanks!

By way of introduction, I've been working with various flavors of Unix
since the early 1980's.  I started working with open source software in
the mid to late 1980's and contributed code to BIND, INN, and trn, as
well as a few other odds and ends.  I started using FreeBSD in the early
1990's, became a src committer in 1998, and got my ports commit bit
early last year. I made my first contribution to the FreeBSD openoffice
port in 2003 and picked up the pace in 2012.

In terms of contributing to OpenOffice, my interests are upstreaming
patches from the FreeBSD port as appropriate, fixing bugs, and general
housekeeping.


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Re: Debug on Windows

[Damjan Jovanovic]

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

> On 3/14/2016 10:49 AM, Oliver Brinzing wrote:
>
>> Hi Patricia,
>>
>> Has anyone nailed getting e.g. windbg running with AOO on Windows? If so,
>>> I have some questions.
>>>
>>
>> better try with vs 2013 community edition 
>> I remember I had a lot of trouble with windbg.
>>
>
> Thanks for the tip - it does work better than windbg.
>
> However, I seem to have a problem with it not loading all the symbols, so
> I cannot set a breakpoint where I want.
>
> My general procedure is to build AOO with configure parameter
> --enable-symbols. I unzip the archive version, copy soffice.bin, and rename
> the copy sofficebin.exe.
>
> In Visual Studio, I do File-Open-Project/Solution and select my
> sofficebin.exe. It seems to do some symbol loading, but not the module I
> want.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions?
>
>
Which module are you trying to debug this way? --enable-symbols only seems
to work for dmake modules, gbuild modules don't get any debug symbols. I
have a preliminary fix.



> Patricia
>
>
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>
>

Re: Debug on Windows

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 3/16/2016 12:07 PM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:




On 3/16/2016 11:24 AM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:


On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

On 3/14/2016 10:49 AM, Oliver Brinzing wrote:


Hi Patricia,


Has anyone nailed getting e.g. windbg running with AOO on Windows? If
so,


I have some questions.



better try with vs 2013 community edition 
I remember I had a lot of trouble with windbg.



Thanks for the tip - it does work better than windbg.

However, I seem to have a problem with it not loading all the symbols, so
I cannot set a breakpoint where I want.

My general procedure is to build AOO with configure parameter
--enable-symbols. I unzip the archive version, copy soffice.bin, and
rename
the copy sofficebin.exe.

In Visual Studio, I do File-Open-Project/Solution and select my
sofficebin.exe. It seems to do some symbol loading, but not the module I
want.

Anyone have any suggestions?


Which module are you trying to debug this way? --enable-symbols only

seems
to work for dmake modules, gbuild modules don't get any debug symbols. I
have a preliminary fix.



I was trying to debug in main/tools/source/generic.



main/tools uses gbuild, so it won't have debug symbols with
--enable-symbols.

As a workaround, after "source winenv.set.sh", "cd" to "tools", and run
"make clean debug=true" to rebuild it with debug symbols. Then "build
--all" from instsetoo_native to pull in that debug copy when building the
new installation package, or (much faster especially on Windows) if you
know which files it built, you can copy those yourself from solver/420/...
over the ones in your pre-existing AOO installation.



This workaround works, but I keep needing to apply it to additional 
modules, which makes debug slow. Is there a list, or a quick way of 
identifying, the gbuild modules so I can just remake them all?


Thanks,

Patricia


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Re: AOO Governance (was RE: Next release and gbuild)

[Pedro Giffuni]

Hello;

I don't know (or care) what donaldupre meant by that "holacracy"
thing but the ASF does have clear governance structures.

Concerning a Release Manager I found this:

http://www.apache.org/dev/release-publishing.html#release_manager

"The common practice at Apache is for a single individual to take 
responsibility for the mechanics of a release."


Note that that common practice doesn't make it mandatory (although 
pretty much a hint in the right direction). However the link also

states:

"Release managers do the work of pushing out releases. However, release 
managers are not ultimately responsible."


I brought the subject the release management being done by a group of 
people before the previous release based on some older document from

the apache httpd project, I will not repeat again that idea, but I think
that instead of focusing on find ing one brave sould to do everything, 
the community would do better to focus on a *group* doing things.


If one person bears all the responsibilities including building for Mac, 
Windows and Linux then it is going to be increasingly difficult

to find a new release manager each time.

What is also increasingly clear to me is that a release won't happen 
immediately soon, even when technically we would be ready for one.


Pedro.

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Re: Debug on Windows

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 3/14/2016 10:49 AM, Oliver Brinzing wrote:

Hi Patricia,


Has anyone nailed getting e.g. windbg running with AOO on Windows? If so, I 
have some questions.


better try with vs 2013 community edition 
I remember I had a lot of trouble with windbg.


Thanks for the tip - it does work better than windbg.

However, I seem to have a problem with it not loading all the symbols, 
so I cannot set a breakpoint where I want.


My general procedure is to build AOO with configure parameter 
--enable-symbols. I unzip the archive version, copy soffice.bin, and 
rename the copy sofficebin.exe.


In Visual Studio, I do File-Open-Project/Solution and select my 
sofficebin.exe. It seems to do some symbol loading, but not the module I 
want.


Anyone have any suggestions?

Patricia

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Coding standards?

[Patricia Shanahan]

Consider the case of an if-statement with a single statement in the 
"true" branch only. For example:


if( someCondition ) return;

Should it be formatted on one line, as above, or on two lines:

if( someCondition )
return;

or on four lines:

if( someCondition )
{
return;
}

I dislike the single line format because it makes placing breakpoints hard.

Patricia

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Re: Debug on Windows

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 3/16/2016 11:24 AM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:


On 3/14/2016 10:49 AM, Oliver Brinzing wrote:


Hi Patricia,

Has anyone nailed getting e.g. windbg running with AOO on Windows? If so,

I have some questions.



better try with vs 2013 community edition 
I remember I had a lot of trouble with windbg.



Thanks for the tip - it does work better than windbg.

However, I seem to have a problem with it not loading all the symbols, so
I cannot set a breakpoint where I want.

My general procedure is to build AOO with configure parameter
--enable-symbols. I unzip the archive version, copy soffice.bin, and rename
the copy sofficebin.exe.

In Visual Studio, I do File-Open-Project/Solution and select my
sofficebin.exe. It seems to do some symbol loading, but not the module I
want.

Anyone have any suggestions?



Which module are you trying to debug this way? --enable-symbols only seems
to work for dmake modules, gbuild modules don't get any debug symbols. I
have a preliminary fix.


I was trying to debug in main/tools/source/generic.

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