Re: Generating symbols for setup_native

2017-01-16 Thread Patricia Shanahan 

On 1/16/2017 1:32 PM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:

Try --enable-dbgutil or as a last resort --enable-debug.


I already have --enable-dbgutil. I'll try --enable-debug overnight.



"DEBUG=true build" in the module directory could also work.


I'll try this first, because I only have to rebuild the module I need 
right now.


Thanks for the suggestions.




On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 10:32 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:


I built with --enable-symbols in the configure parameters.

For several modules, I can get symbols generated using:

 make clean; make debug=3Dtrue

and copying the updated .dll files.

I just tried this for main/setup_native and there does not seem to be a
suitable makefile.

Is there any way to get symbols for that module?

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Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

2017-01-16 Thread Dave Fisher 
A third party like a Team OpenOffice under a name that avoids users confusion 
with Apache OpenOffice could raise money and fund development as a separate, 
independent entity. That's what IBM did. The entity just needs to be careful 
about guaranteeing the work will be taken by Apache OpenOffice.

It really is that simple now. I suppose it was much more confusing while the 
project was in the Incubator and all email threads became so emotionally 
charged and frenetic.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 16, 2017, at 1:59 PM, Raphael Bircher  wrote:
> 
> Am .01.2017, 11:00 Uhr, schrieb Jörg Schmidt :
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>>> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
>> 
>>> We see in Star citizen how mighty crowd can be.
>>> 
>>> Maybe a platform would be great where people can pledge money
>>> for something
>>> they need.
>>> If the needed budget is reached, payed developers implement it.
>>> Or we could do it as a bonus system. You pledge money on a
>>> bug/enhancement,
>>> if the bug gets included in the release the developers get a payout.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> This is just an idea. I am not sure if we can do business
>>> within the ASF or
>>> if we have to found a 3rd party entity for this.
>>> If we have to go 3rd party I prefer a cooperative society as
>>> a legal form.
>>> https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/social-economy/cooperative
>>> s/european-cooperative-society_de
>> 
>> You are basically right, but let me give the following information.
>> 
>> Team OpenOffice was such a project. The participants were mainly experienced 
>> OpenOffice developers from SUN Microsystems.
> I think, the real problem there was this text 
> http://www.opensourceforbusiness.info/openoffice-org-droht-das-aus/
> 
>> 
>> See:
>> https://web.archive.org/web/20120107200702/http://teamopenoffice.org/de/the-team-de.html
>> 
>> But Apache made a front against this project and so it was no chance. The 
>> only short-term result was "White Label Office", see for example:
>> http://www.chip.de/downloads/White-Label-Office_53492033.html
>> 
>> I do not want to criticize one-sidedly, here is a different view:
>> http://www.golem.de/1112/88663.html
>> 
>> But Apache is the larger party and it would be the task of Apache to 
>> recognize opportunities and bundle forces.
>> 
>> This is unfortunately the truth and it is a central problem for OpenOffice.
> 
> The only restriction the ASF have is, that you can not collect money in the 
> name of a project as a third party. And Apache itself does not found 
> defelopment.
> 
> But you can collect money for Features or major bugfixes as a third party. 
> This model is vor sure easyer to setup, if you have some big company who put 
> a load of money to it. In my mind is a collaboration with Source Forge. They 
> rich a load of OpenOffice users.
> 
> Regards Raphael
> -- 
> Mein Blog: https://raphaelbircher.blogspot.ch
> 
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> 


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Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

2017-01-16 Thread Raphael Bircher 

Am .01.2017, 11:00 Uhr, schrieb Jörg Schmidt :


Hello,


From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]



We see in Star citizen how mighty crowd can be.

Maybe a platform would be great where people can pledge money
for something
they need.
If the needed budget is reached, payed developers implement it.
Or we could do it as a bonus system. You pledge money on a
bug/enhancement,
if the bug gets included in the release the developers get a payout.





This is just an idea. I am not sure if we can do business
within the ASF or
if we have to found a 3rd party entity for this.
If we have to go 3rd party I prefer a cooperative society as
a legal form.
https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/social-economy/cooperative
s/european-cooperative-society_de


You are basically right, but let me give the following information.

Team OpenOffice was such a project. The participants were mainly  
experienced OpenOffice developers from SUN Microsystems.
I think, the real problem there was this text  
http://www.opensourceforbusiness.info/openoffice-org-droht-das-aus/




See:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120107200702/http://teamopenoffice.org/de/the-team-de.html

But Apache made a front against this project and so it was no chance.  
The only short-term result was "White Label Office", see for example:

http://www.chip.de/downloads/White-Label-Office_53492033.html

I do not want to criticize one-sidedly, here is a different view:
http://www.golem.de/1112/88663.html

But Apache is the larger party and it would be the task of Apache to  
recognize opportunities and bundle forces.


This is unfortunately the truth and it is a central problem for  
OpenOffice.


The only restriction the ASF have is, that you can not collect money in  
the name of a project as a third party. And Apache itself does not found  
defelopment.


But you can collect money for Features or major bugfixes as a third party.  
This model is vor sure easyer to setup, if you have some big company who  
put a load of money to it. In my mind is a collaboration with Source  
Forge. They rich a load of OpenOffice users.


Regards Raphael
--
Mein Blog: https://raphaelbircher.blogspot.ch

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Re: Generating symbols for setup_native

2017-01-16 Thread Damjan Jovanovic 
Try --enable-dbgutil or as a last resort --enable-debug.

"DEBUG=true build" in the module directory could also work.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 10:32 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

> I built with --enable-symbols in the configure parameters.
>
> For several modules, I can get symbols generated using:
>
>  make clean; make debug=3Dtrue
>
> and copying the updated .dll files.
>
> I just tried this for main/setup_native and there does not seem to be a
> suitable makefile.
>
> Is there any way to get symbols for that module?
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

2017-01-16 Thread Hagar Delest 

Le 16/01/2017 à 18:32, esh1907 a écrit :

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Hagar Delest 
wrote:

So basically, what is the user base? Who should AOO focus on? For a
company I doubt the price of MS Office is really a problem (they negotiate
fees for sure). Since documents are mostly shared in .docx/.xlsx formats,
why bother with applications like AOO/LO that are not fully compatible? Is
there any big player willing to invest in something to compete with MS
Office to avoid buying it? Doesn't seem very likely

Why bother? because we don't want in the future .docy/.xlsy and then
.docz/.xlsz ...
How do you know there is no big player willing to invest?

When I wrote why bother, I was talking as if I were a company. It's not my 
opinion as a user. I doubt that a company would switch to AOO/LO knowing that 
there are issues with intercompatibility.
I don't know for sure that there is no big player but if there had been one, we 
would have known for some time I guess, just after the code was donated to ASF. 
There was some hints on the net IIRC about IBM being interested. But nothing 
happened.
Moreover, just read again Raphael's (1st) mail: There are maybe at the moment 
no big investors,...


So AOO is left with households, perhaps very very small companies and
education sector. I think that AOO should be the simple choice for schools.
It should offer the peace of mind with no license issue, no need of a
package full of features not really needed but sold efficiently by MS. No
need of permanent internet access, just install it locally.
It should say: here is a rock solid application that can prepare
pupils/student to office software. It is not MS Office but there are enough
similarities to make it a good tool to learn. Like your driving license:
you learn on a car but you can buy something (very) different. You just
have to adapt.
If there is something to make clear, it is the effort needed to adapt from
AOO to MS Office. I'm not saying it should be a clone but just make the
transition as smooth as possible, user point of view.

If you think little of AOO - it will be little...

Sorry, don't understand. If I thought little of AOO (meaning it's not very 
powerfull), it would be a huge step on the contrary to adapt to MS Office.


Hagar
PS: can't bear teachers asking my kids to provide homeworks in .docx/.xlsx.

Instead of complaining, why not change that?

For my kids, I try, providing them some rationale to be discussed. I'll raise 
the question also during the meetings between parents and teachers.
For all the students who report that in the forum however, there is no way. 
Just laziness from the teachers.

But reading again some post of this discussion, I'm wondering if we are not off 
topic. I understood 'contribute' not as a money question only. Donating to AOO 
directly is not possible so isn't it a dead end?

The only thing I can think of is to use crowfunding to reward devs fixing major 
issues or implementing new features. Like give $5,000 to the contributor who 
provide the piece of code that fixes the ### issue...
The problem is what happens to the money if no one want to work on it.

Hagar

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Re: Question -- building AOO 4.1.3 on Windows

2017-01-16 Thread Hong 
Hi again,

I now encountered this error,

checking for PSDK files... configure: error: Some (all?) PSDK files not
found, please check if all needed Platform SDKs
are installed or use --with-psdk-home .

I suspect it was that I installed Windows SDK v10, or maybe that I did not
install under the default "Program Files (x86)" ?

The instruction said the Windows SDK is v7. Does it need to be strictly
followed?

A more general question is does everything in https://wiki.openoffice.org/
wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step needs to be strictly
followed? I am using a Windows 10 machine, but things like .NET 3.5, MSVC
2008 and GDI needs to come out of Win XP sound a bit outdated.

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 9:26 PM, Hong  wrote:

> Thanks, will try to find it.
>
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Damjan Jovanovic 
> wrote:
>
>> The "autoconf" tool is part of Cygwin.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 7:07 AM, Hong  wrote:
>>
>> > As in my screenshot, I did not see an autoconf file in my download as
>> well.
>> > I was curious why was it too. Autoconf is a project file, not a Cygwin
>> > command/tool?
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 9:03 PM, Damjan Jovanovic 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi
>> > >
>> > > Please run "autoconf" first, which will generate "configure" from "
>> > > configure.in".
>> > >
>> > > Damjan
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 6:58 AM, Hong  wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hello all,
>> > > >
>> > > > I am trying to build AOO 4.1.3 on a Windows machine.
>> > > >
>> > > > My source code was from this page, https://openoffice.apache.org/
>> > > > downloads.html (from the zip, not from the svn checkout)
>> > > >
>> > > > I was following through this guide, https://wiki.openoffice.org/
>> > > > wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step
>> > > >
>> > > > I could follow the "Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 10" section up
>> until
>> > > > this,
>> > > >
>> > > > SDK_PATH="/cygdrive/c/Microsoft_SDKs/Windows/v7.0"
>> > > > ./configure \
>> > > > --with-frame-home="$SDK_PATH" \
>> > > > --with-psdk-home="$SDK_PATH" \
>> > > > --with-midl-path="$SDK_PATH/bin" \
>> > > > --with-ant-home="/cygdrive/c/apache-ant-1.8.4" \
>> > > > --with-jdk-home="C:/PROGRA~2/Java/JDK18~1.0_7" \
>> > > > --with-csc-path="C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v3.5" \
>> > > > --with-cl-home="C:/PROGRA~2/MI1DCA~1.0/VC" \
>> > > > --with-asm-home="C:/PROGRA~2/MI1DCA~1.0/VC/bin" \
>> > > > --with-dmake-url="http://sourceforge.net/projects/
>> > > > oooextras.mirror/files/dmake-4.12.tar.bz2" \
>> > > > --with-epm-url="https://sourceforge.net/projects/
>> > > > oooextras.mirror/files/epm-3.7.tar.gz" \
>> > > > --disable-pch \
>> > > > --disable-atl \
>> > > > --disable-activex \
>> > > > --disable-nss-module \
>> > > > --without-junit
>> > > >
>> > > > Assuming this is Cygwin code, typing in Cygwin gave me "bash:
>> > > ./configure:
>> > > > No such file or directory"
>> > > >
>> > > > Also the main directory does not seem to have a "configure", but
>> only
>> > > > configure.cmd and configure.in
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Any thoughts what was the problem here? Am I following the right
>> > > > instruction?​
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>

Generating symbols for setup_native

2017-01-16 Thread Patricia Shanahan 

I built with --enable-symbols in the configure parameters.

For several modules, I can get symbols generated using:

 make clean; make debug=3Dtrue

and copying the updated .dll files.

I just tried this for main/setup_native and there does not seem to be a 
suitable makefile.


Is there any way to get symbols for that module?

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Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

2017-01-16 Thread esh1907 
On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Hagar Delest 
wrote:


> So basically, what is the user base? Who should AOO focus on? For a
> company I doubt the price of MS Office is really a problem (they negotiate
> fees for sure). Since documents are mostly shared in .docx/.xlsx formats,
> why bother with applications like AOO/LO that are not fully compatible? Is
> there any big player willing to invest in something to compete with MS
> Office to avoid buying it? Doesn't seem very likely


Why bother? because we don't want in the future .docy/.xlsy and then
.docz/.xlsz ...
How do you know there is no big player willing to invest?


> So AOO is left with households, perhaps very very small companies and
> education sector. I think that AOO should be the simple choice for schools.
> It should offer the peace of mind with no license issue, no need of a
> package full of features not really needed but sold efficiently by MS. No
> need of permanent internet access, just install it locally.
> It should say: here is a rock solid application that can prepare
> pupils/student to office software. It is not MS Office but there are enough
> similarities to make it a good tool to learn. Like your driving license:
> you learn on a car but you can buy something (very) different. You just
> have to adapt.
> If there is something to make clear, it is the effort needed to adapt from
> AOO to MS Office. I'm not saying it should be a clone but just make the
> transition as smooth as possible, user point of view.
>
>
If you think little of AOO - it will be little...


>
> Hagar
> PS: can't bear teachers asking my kids to provide homeworks in .docx/.xlsx.
>
>
Instead of complaining, why not change that?

>
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>
>