Re: Mentor
Hi Yacine, I'll do what I can to help you, though I'm relatively new to OpenOffice. I am a very experienced developer, just not on this program. Are you planning to use a Microsoft Windows system for building it? If so, you need to read https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step#Windows_7.2C_Windows_8.1 The build process for OpenOffice is not simple. The code has to run on many different systems so there is a pre-compilation configuration process that runs scripts to prepare for your system. Do not assume that what you do for smaller, simpler programs will work for AOO. Start following the steps, carefully and methodically. If anything goes wrong, ask for help. Patricia On 5/25/2016 2:42 AM, Yacine Abbes wrote: Hi Thank you for the reply. I've read link but i find it confusing and I'm not a developer although i do have some very basic experience. Basically I need answers for the following: (1) Which Window based SDK can edit OO source files? (2) My personal objectives for OO is to be able to: (2.a) Edit and redesign the graphical interface (menus, icons, ...) and change default settings in submenus, etc. (2.b) Recompile and create an installer program (3) Which project file should i open to do the above? I would appreciate any guidance that will help with the above. Best regards Yacine From: j...@oooes.org To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Mentor Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 01:24:03 -0500 On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 6:14:47 AM CDT Yacine Abbes wrote: Hi I'm new to OO development. I would appreciate if anyone would like like to be a mentor? Best regards Yacine We have had mentoring programs in the past but most of the mentorage is done on the list mainly. Not everyone knows everything that happens on the code so asking the dev list allows to point more on the domains of the level of code. For starter I would suggest to read on the wiki development pages including how the code is organized, and worked on. https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Development Also try to compile the AOO version so your patches can be tested locally. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Mentor
Hi Thank you for the reply. I've read link but i find it confusing and I'm not a developer although i do have some very basic experience. Basically I need answers for the following: (1) Which Window based SDK can edit OO source files? (2) My personal objectives for OO is to be able to: (2.a) Edit and redesign the graphical interface (menus, icons, ...) and change default settings in submenus, etc. (2.b) Recompile and create an installer program (3) Which project file should i open to do the above? I would appreciate any guidance that will help with the above. Best regards Yacine From: j...@oooes.org To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Mentor Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 01:24:03 -0500 On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 6:14:47 AM CDT Yacine Abbes wrote: > Hi > I'm new to OO development. I would appreciate if anyone would like like to > be a mentor? Best regards > Yacine We have had mentoring programs in the past but most of the mentorage is done on the list mainly. Not everyone knows everything that happens on the code so asking the dev list allows to point more on the domains of the level of code. For starter I would suggest to read on the wiki development pages including how the code is organized, and worked on. https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Development Also try to compile the AOO version so your patches can be tested locally. -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOfficeTM Contributor 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
Re: Mentor
On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 6:14:47 AM CDT Yacine Abbes wrote:
> Hi
> I'm new to OO development. I would appreciate if anyone would like like to
> be a mentor? Best regards
> Yacine
We have had mentoring programs in the past but most of the mentorage is done on
the
list mainly. Not everyone knows everything that happens on the code so asking
the dev list
allows to point more on the domains of the level of code.
For starter I would suggest to read on the wiki development pages including how
the code
is organized, and worked on.
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Development
Also try to compile the AOO version so your patches can be tested locally.
Alexandro Colorado
Apache
*OpenOffice*^{TM} Contributor
882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Mentor
Hi I'm new to OO development. I would appreciate if anyone would like like to be a mentor? Best regards Yacine
Mentor hat and advice
Hi folks We should be celebrating our first release, it is getting close and we have the IPMC votes we need, so now we just need to avoid -1 (binding).. One of our core developers wrote to me privately asking for advice, instead of responding privately I respond in here, so it becomes public knowledge. Wearing my Mentor hat. I do not want to interfere in any way with who mails what to whom, but at least one core developer has been offended by a private (offlist) email and asked me how to handle it. As mentor, my recommendation is, that if you recieve private emails about corinthia that you do not want, reply politely to the email, asking the sender to direct the email to one of our mailing lists (Motto: If it did not happen on a mailing list, it did not happen). You should not send the email to any ML because it was sent to you in private, if you want to prevent further private emails you can write, that emails will in the future be forwarded to e.g. private@, that way the sender has received a fair warning. REMARK, the above is only an advice I give because I was asked, this is not something you need to follow in any way. Rgds jan I. Ps. Could this day please be a day where we think positive. -- Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.
Fwd: Mentor hat and advice
wrong list sorry. rgds jan i -- Forwarded message -- From: *jan i* j...@apache.org Date: Monday, August 24, 2015 Subject: Mentor hat and advice To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Hi folks We should be celebrating our first release, it is getting close and we have the IPMC votes we need, so now we just need to avoid -1 (binding).. One of our core developers wrote to me privately asking for advice, instead of responding privately I respond in here, so it becomes public knowledge. Wearing my Mentor hat. I do not want to interfere in any way with who mails what to whom, but at least one core developer has been offended by a private (offlist) email and asked me how to handle it. As mentor, my recommendation is, that if you recieve private emails about corinthia that you do not want, reply politely to the email, asking the sender to direct the email to one of our mailing lists (Motto: If it did not happen on a mailing list, it did not happen). You should not send the email to any ML because it was sent to you in private, if you want to prevent further private emails you can write, that emails will in the future be forwarded to e.g. private@, that way the sender has received a fair warning. REMARK, the above is only an advice I give because I was asked, this is not something you need to follow in any way. Rgds jan I. Ps. Could this day please be a day where we think positive. -- Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings. -- Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.
Re: I join the IPMC and start as Mentor at the Incubator
Congratulations Raphael ! Btw, do you know any thing about TestLink design? Can we refer to you for request like TestLink customization? I send you some questions about TestLink today .. thought you may know. Regards, Yu Zhen On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 6:47 AM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 27 November 2013 23:17, Dave Fisher w...@apache.org wrote: Jan, A good idea for the whole IPMC which is about 20-30 active with about 175 members. Constant flux. I did not know that there were that many. I think my C++ skills, general project/ASF knowledge and maybe most important my infra work could be helpful for some project. Every time I tried I was told to seek out a project myself, which of course means nothing happens. I believe a register would be helpful for new projects, and especially for mentors, so I am happy you find it a good idea. rgds jan I. Regards, Dave Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2013, at 4:07 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 27 November 2013 22:44, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi all Not realy a important message, but I want to let you know, that I'm voted in to the Incubator PMC. I will also start as Mentor there. Congratulations ! maybe you can do something about making a register of committers and skills who are willing to help. Its no fun being told just to look through the project and ques who could not help with a given skillset. rgds. jan I. Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
I join the IPMC and start as Mentor at the Incubator
Hi all Not realy a important message, but I want to let you know, that I'm voted in to the Incubator PMC. I will also start as Mentor there. Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: I join the IPMC and start as Mentor at the Incubator
On 27 November 2013 22:44, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi all Not realy a important message, but I want to let you know, that I'm voted in to the Incubator PMC. I will also start as Mentor there. Congratulations ! maybe you can do something about making a register of committers and skills who are willing to help. Its no fun being told just to look through the project and ques who could not help with a given skillset. rgds. jan I. Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: I join the IPMC and start as Mentor at the Incubator
Jan, A good idea for the whole IPMC which is about 20-30 active with about 175 members. Constant flux. Regards, Dave Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2013, at 4:07 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 27 November 2013 22:44, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi all Not realy a important message, but I want to let you know, that I'm voted in to the Incubator PMC. I will also start as Mentor there. Congratulations ! maybe you can do something about making a register of committers and skills who are willing to help. Its no fun being told just to look through the project and ques who could not help with a given skillset. rgds. jan I. Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: I join the IPMC and start as Mentor at the Incubator
On 27 November 2013 23:17, Dave Fisher w...@apache.org wrote: Jan, A good idea for the whole IPMC which is about 20-30 active with about 175 members. Constant flux. I did not know that there were that many. I think my C++ skills, general project/ASF knowledge and maybe most important my infra work could be helpful for some project. Every time I tried I was told to seek out a project myself, which of course means nothing happens. I believe a register would be helpful for new projects, and especially for mentors, so I am happy you find it a good idea. rgds jan I. Regards, Dave Sent from my iPhone On Nov 27, 2013, at 4:07 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 27 November 2013 22:44, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi all Not realy a important message, but I want to let you know, that I'm voted in to the Incubator PMC. I will also start as Mentor there. Congratulations ! maybe you can do something about making a register of committers and skills who are willing to help. Its no fun being told just to look through the project and ques who could not help with a given skillset. rgds. jan I. Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Mentor a new build system.
be built in some standard way and these other aspects built in their own environment and plugged in later at some point. Just some thoughts I've had, which might not make any sense. ;} I have because of the genLang integration been deep into build (and still are), and e.g. helpcontent2 is solely dmake files, in my ubuntu I have a helpcontent2/Makefile that replaces build.pl for the module. postprocess or instsetoo_native might be a level more difficult, but they are still only dmake make files. I have read the fuzz about having a standard make setup, but I have never understood the complexity (unless you want to make it complex). I would gladly help someone who has time to edit the Makefiles we need. rgd jan I. But, I'm happy to see this proposal and I hope it gets accepted. The more eyes we have on the build process, the better. The team must first understand how the current system works in general, and then build scenarios how a \\\perfect\\\** system would look like. Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project. Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help me as well. I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the result works it cannot be less nice than the current system. I hope that you are right. But the our second build system proves that just working does not necessarily result in an improvement. But I don't want to sound too negative. This project is a great start and I believe that you and the students and our community will be able to improve the build system greatly. are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ? As you know, I have already done some reasearch in this area and I would be glad to help. Regards Andre --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- - MzK Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Following the Equator, Mark Twain -- - MzK Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Following the Equator, Mark Twain - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Mentor a new build system.
? rgds jan I. -Andre Thanks for these tips. I would REALLY like to disconnect the help building to try to get tech writers more interested in development/changes of our inline help content, with minimal fuss. OK, I will play with that this week. I will be happy to assist, feel free to contact me offlist/onlist. I have spent the last week debugging the helpcontent2 build part, to make it work with genLang, and I still have some way to go. If we had some resources we should take it one step further, and replace the current help with standard help methods available. That would make it a lot easier for tech. writers. rgds jan I. I have not thoroughly investigated the workings of build.pl, but I'm wondering if it's the mix of what we're trying to build -- e.g. the helpcontent -- that is a bottleneck here. To me, it seems code components could be built in some standard way and these other aspects built in their own environment and plugged in later at some point. Just some thoughts I've had, which might not make any sense. ;} I have because of the genLang integration been deep into build (and still are), and e.g. helpcontent2 is solely dmake files, in my ubuntu I have a helpcontent2/Makefile that replaces build.pl for the module. postprocess or instsetoo_native might be a level more difficult, but they are still only dmake make files. I have read the fuzz about having a standard make setup, but I have never understood the complexity (unless you want to make it complex). I would gladly help someone who has time to edit the Makefiles we need. rgd jan I. But, I'm happy to see this proposal and I hope it gets accepted. The more eyes we have on the build process, the better. The team must first understand how the current system works in general, and then build scenarios how a \\\perfect\\\** ** system would look like. Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project. Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help me as well. I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the result works it cannot be less nice than the current system. I hope that you are right. But the our second build system proves that just working does not necessarily result in an improvement. But I don't want to sound too negative. This project is a great start and I believe that you and the students and our community will be able to improve the build system greatly. are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ? As you know, I have already done some reasearch in this area and I would be glad to help. Regards Andre --** --**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**a**pache.orghttp://apache.org dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- --**--** --**--- MzK Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Following the Equator, Mark Twain -- --**--** --**--- MzK Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Following the Equator, Mark Twain --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On 10/15/13 10:45 AM, janI wrote: On 15 October 2013 10:02, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 14.10.2013 23:40, janI wrote: On 14 October 2013 23:34, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 2:02 PM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: On 14 October 2013 19:44, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:38 AM, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 11.10.2013 18:10, janI wrote: Hi. FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU capstone. The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the next months to achieve the following: That is great news. Thank you for pushing this forward. http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?** **id=16http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/**capstone/viewproposal2013.php?**id=16 http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/**capstone/viewproposal2013.php?**id=16http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16 extract from above: motivation: Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65 milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and enhancements from AOO. The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933 makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use C++ (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented system. At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want to make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to use especially for windows developers. goal: The goal is to: 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles) One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should be automatically generated. I am not happy with that last sentence. When there is one 'primary' flavor of the build system, then that tends to get much more attention than the other flavors. This happened with both build system that we have. They heavily tend to the Unix side and are slow and hard to use on Windows. I think that we should treat our major platforms (Windows, Linux and Mac) equal. I plead absolute ignorance about Visual Studio 2008, but I thought it could use makefile specifications -- though maybe this is not well-integrated from what I've been reading. Makefiles have been integrated since VC 6, but once you start using it you soon find the limits, it would never support a setup like ours. OK...like I said, complete ignorance. I have ONLY used *nix builds in the course of my life. it maybe ignorance, I call it interest, and to me all input are welcome ! In my mind, it would be great to ditch build.pl if we could, and go with a straight makefile setup. We've already worked on this aspect. I think build.pl is the smallest problem in our build problem. As Jan already said, it basically just calls dmake or GNU make for all projects and in the right order. To ditch build.pl alone, is a very straight forward task, a real nice task for a new developer. Remember build only controls the module/prj directories and then call dmake to do the rest. Ditching build.pl (which I have done experimental for helpcontent2 and l10ntools) consist of: 1) take the first line of */prj/build.lst and use that to build a Makefile in with module dependencies. 2) for each module use the remaining lines in */prj/build.lst to build a module/Makefile that calls dmake for the existing makefiles 3) for each mdoule use */prj/deliver.lst to expand module/Makefile with a target and a set of copy instructions. It about a little workweek to edit and test the setup. Some time ago I have written a Perl script that basically what Jan has outlined. It reads the build.lst files and creates one Makefile that calls dmake and GNU make for the projects. The only problem with this aproach, and the reason why I did not finalized this experiment, is that build.pl has a lot of other features and options besides the regular build. Understanding these and replicating them is the hard part. I would not mind having a copy of the script if possible ? I think we need a big discussion to whether a new system should support all options and features of the existing systems. As an example, we remove most (if not all) options in configure by having an option like --generate_platform=xyz where xyz is one of our supported release platforms. The --generate-platform would internally set the same options we use to generate the releases. Going in such a direction will of course limit the build variations,
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On 15.10.2013 10:45, janI wrote: On 15 October 2013 10:02, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: Some time ago I have written a Perl script that basically what Jan has outlined. It reads the build.lst files and creates one Makefile that calls dmake and GNU make for the projects. The only problem with this aproach, and the reason why I did not finalized this experiment, is that build.pl has a lot of other features and options besides the regular build. Understanding these and replicating them is the hard part. I would not mind having a copy of the script if possible ? Sure. You can find it here: http://people.apache.org/~af/build.zip There is a readme (which I called index.html for reasons that I can't remember). Its How to use section explains, well, how to use the script and the makefile it creates. But I don't know if it still works properly. I think we need a big discussion to whether a new system should support all options and features of the existing systems. We should definitely remove any options that where added over the years but are not used anymore. But it might be good to first understand which options there really are and what not used anymore means. There may be functionality that is used only once every six months when a release is built. But maybe such functionality can be moved to its own script. As an example, we remove most (if not all) options in configure by having an option like --generate_platform=xyz where xyz is one of our supported release platforms. The --generate-platform would internally set the same options we use to generate the releases. Going in such a direction will of course limit the build variations, but I am not sure if that is a bad thing ? Certainly not. -Andre rgds jan I. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Mentor a new build system.
to build -- e.g. the helpcontent -- that is a bottleneck here. To me, it seems code components could be built in some standard way and these other aspects built in their own environment and plugged in later at some point. Just some thoughts I've had, which might not make any sense. ;} I have because of the genLang integration been deep into build (and still are), and e.g. helpcontent2 is solely dmake files, in my ubuntu I have a helpcontent2/Makefile that replaces build.pl for the module. postprocess or instsetoo_native might be a level more difficult, but they are still only dmake make files. I have read the fuzz about having a standard make setup, but I have never understood the complexity (unless you want to make it complex). I would gladly help someone who has time to edit the Makefiles we need. rgd jan I. But, I'm happy to see this proposal and I hope it gets accepted. The more eyes we have on the build process, the better. The team must first understand how the current system works in general, and then build scenarios how a \\\perfect\\\** system would look like. Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project. Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help me as well. I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the result works it cannot be less nice than the current system. I hope that you are right. But the our second build system proves that just working does not necessarily result in an improvement. But I don't want to sound too negative. This project is a great start and I believe that you and the students and our community will be able to improve the build system greatly. are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ? As you know, I have already done some reasearch in this area and I would be glad to help. Regards Andre --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- - MzK Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Following the Equator, Mark Twain -- - MzK Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Following the Equator, Mark Twain -- - MzK Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Following the Equator, Mark Twain
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On 12.10.2013 23:33, Dave Fisher wrote: Perhaps you will unlock the path to a digitally signed build for Windows. That would be huge! I don't think that that is a shortcoming of the build system (which has many). It is more a restriction on the administrative side of OpenOffice and Apache. -Andre - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Mentor a new build system.
Sorry for top posting. There seems to be some confusion, about the project. The goal is not to replace the current system (this is only a potential long time goal). The goal is to make a parallel build system suited for windows developers, and then in a second phase generate makefiles for linux. In the beginning of this thread I posted information, which is repeated below: == Project SVN Branch: https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branches/capstone2013 Motivation AOO’s current build system is old, non-standard, hard to understand, and undocumented. To attract new developers, Apache Software Foundation would like to create a new/modern build system. Objectives 1. Develop a build system for Microsoft Visual Studio (Windows), and Linux. Focus on making Windows development easy. 2. Implement the new build system in parallel with the current build system. 3. Help test the new new build system. Deliverables 1. “How to” report before programming. 2. In June, a build system capable of generating AOO in Windows and in Linux === I have also made a wiki page (also published earlier): http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_System_Analysis:capstone2013_windows_build I encourage everyone to participate in the discussions. rgds jan I. On 14 October 2013 09:26, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 12.10.2013 23:33, Dave Fisher wrote: Perhaps you will unlock the path to a digitally signed build for Windows. That would be huge! I don't think that that is a shortcoming of the build system (which has many). It is more a restriction on the administrative side of OpenOffice and Apache. -Andre --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On 11.10.2013 18:10, janI wrote: Hi. FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU capstone. The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the next months to achieve the following: That is great news. Thank you for pushing this forward. http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16 extract from above: motivation: Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65 milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and enhancements from AOO. The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933 makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use C++ (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented system. At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want to make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to use especially for windows developers. goal: The goal is to: 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles) One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should be automatically generated. I am not happy with that last sentence. When there is one 'primary' flavor of the build system, then that tends to get much more attention than the other flavors. This happened with both build system that we have. They heavily tend to the Unix side and are slow and hard to use on Windows. I think that we should treat our major platforms (Windows, Linux and Mac) equal. The team must first understand how the current system works in general, and then build scenarios how a \\\perfect\\\ system would look like. Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project. Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help me as well. I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the result works it cannot be less nice than the current system. I hope that you are right. But the our second build system proves that just working does not necessarily result in an improvement. But I don't want to sound too negative. This project is a great start and I believe that you and the students and our community will be able to improve the build system greatly. are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ? As you know, I have already done some reasearch in this area and I would be glad to help. Regards Andre - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On 14 October 2013 09:38, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 11.10.2013 18:10, janI wrote: Hi. FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU capstone. The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the next months to achieve the following: That is great news. Thank you for pushing this forward. http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/**capstone/viewproposal2013.php?**id=16http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16 extract from above: motivation: Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65 milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and enhancements from AOO. The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933 makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use C++ (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented system. At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want to make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to use especially for windows developers. goal: The goal is to: 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles) One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should be automatically generated. I am not happy with that last sentence. When there is one 'primary' flavor of the build system, then that tends to get much more attention than the other flavors. This happened with both build system that we have. They heavily tend to the Unix side and are slow and hard to use on Windows. I think that we should treat our major platforms (Windows, Linux and Mac) equal. I happen to agree with you, but I missed words. I want to use visual studio solutions on windows and makefiles on Linux. Mac can be either/or (I dont have enough experience here). The visual studio project files happens to be XML, meaning its relative easy to add tags that will be needed for makefiles. Looking in the long term, I think we will end up with neutral XML files and generate the platform files from that, but I need a kickstarter, so maybe the correct wording would be We make one system first, looking at the demands of the other systems, and then later expand. The team must first understand how the current system works in general, and then build scenarios how a \\\perfect\\\** system would look like. Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project. Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help me as well. I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the result works it cannot be less nice than the current system. I hope that you are right. But the our second build system proves that just working does not necessarily result in an improvement. But I don't want to sound too negative. This project is a great start and I believe that you and the students and our community will be able to improve the build system greatly. I have been thinking a lot about this, and I am afraid if we try to use the all-embracing system (like gbuild) we will die before we can show anything. But I am sure you and others will help keep me and the project on a track where it can be generally used. are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ? As you know, I have already done some reasearch in this area and I would be glad to help. Noted. The schedule right now it to make brainstorming on wiki ending up in a project plan. BUT I see this project as a kickstarter, NOT as THE new system. I am sure we will have plenty of work after the project. rgds jan I. Regards Andre --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On 14.10.2013 09:38, janI wrote: Sorry for top posting. There seems to be some confusion, about the project. The goal is not to replace the current system (this is only a potential long time goal). The goal is to make a parallel build system suited for windows developers, and then in a second phase generate makefiles for linux. Now I am confused :-) Can you tell us more about the goal of the new build system? Is it an improvement of building speed (or reduction of time to build), increase the ease of use, or make the system better understandable to developers. An increase of the build speed would be great on Windows but hardly possible or necessary on Linux. Can you tell us how we can manage a third (and possibly a fourth) build system when today we have problems maintaining two? Again, I don't want to sound too negative or discourage you. I just want to understand what you have in mind. -Andre In the beginning of this thread I posted information, which is repeated below: == Project SVN Branch: https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branches/capstone2013 Motivation AOO’s current build system is old, non-standard, hard to understand, and undocumented. To attract new developers, Apache Software Foundation would like to create a new/modern build system. Objectives 1. Develop a build system for Microsoft Visual Studio (Windows), and Linux. Focus on making Windows development easy. 2. Implement the new build system in parallel with the current build system. 3. Help test the new new build system. Deliverables 1. “How to” report before programming. 2. In June, a build system capable of generating AOO in Windows and in Linux === I have also made a wiki page (also published earlier): http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_System_Analysis:capstone2013_windows_build I encourage everyone to participate in the discussions. rgds jan I. On 14 October 2013 09:26, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 12.10.2013 23:33, Dave Fisher wrote: Perhaps you will unlock the path to a digitally signed build for Windows. That would be huge! I don't think that that is a shortcoming of the build system (which has many). It is more a restriction on the administrative side of OpenOffice and Apache. -Andre --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On 14 October 2013 10:00, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 14.10.2013 09:38, janI wrote: Sorry for top posting. There seems to be some confusion, about the project. The goal is not to replace the current system (this is only a potential long time goal). The goal is to make a parallel build system suited for windows developers, and then in a second phase generate makefiles for linux. Now I am confused :-) Can you tell us more about the goal of the new build system? Is it an improvement of building speed (or reduction of time to build), increase the ease of use, or make the system better understandable to developers. Sorry for confusing you. Maybe my problem is that I see things in stages. I see it like this: Stage 1) Make a visual studio based build system, suitable for windows developers, and to proof it is possible. Stage 2) Take a long discussion in here, on how this system can/should be expanded to cover all our platforms just for the discussion, assume my ideas are the outcome of 2) Stage 3) Expand 1) to make it cover all our platforms Stage 4) Enable it so that we on linux use standard build mechanisms (e.g. make) enabling us to be part of standard distributions. Stage 5) Remove the current build system. The project I mentor right now, primeraly covers stage 1) and if time permit part of 2) and 3). An increase of the build speed would be great on Windows but hardly possible or necessary on Linux. agreed. Can you tell us how we can manage a third (and possibly a fourth) build system when today we have problems maintaining two? Yes, we keep it in the branch until we want to replace the 2 others OR if we agree live with a third system for a short period of time (this should only be done, if we see a path and have resources to complete the remaining steps). Again, I don't want to sound too negative or discourage you. I just want to understand what you have in mind. Which is very fair. It was a pleasant surprise to me, that the project was selected, so now we have start working, and I dont have all the answers right now, just a direction. I hope this clarifies some of your confusion, its important that we all have the same view. I am sorry for trying to take small steps, but integrating genLang have shown me a lot of the difficulties ahead, and I made a positive decision not to try to change the current system, that would have been too complex (at least for me). rgds jan I. rgds jan I. -Andre In the beginning of this thread I posted information, which is repeated below: == Project SVN Branch: https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/openoffice/branches/**capstone2013https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branches/capstone2013 Motivation AOO’s current build system is old, non-standard, hard to understand, and undocumented. To attract new developers, Apache Software Foundation would like to create a new/modern build system. Objectives 1. Develop a build system for Microsoft Visual Studio (Windows), and Linux. Focus on making Windows development easy. 2. Implement the new build system in parallel with the current build system. 3. Help test the new new build system. Deliverables 1. “How to” report before programming. 2. In June, a build system capable of generating AOO in Windows and in Linux === I have also made a wiki page (also published earlier): http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Build_System_Analysis:** capstone2013_windows_buildhttp://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_System_Analysis:capstone2013_windows_build I encourage everyone to participate in the discussions. rgds jan I. On 14 October 2013 09:26, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 12.10.2013 23:33, Dave Fisher wrote: Perhaps you will unlock the path to a digitally signed build for Windows. That would be huge! I don't think that that is a shortcoming of the build system (which has many). It is more a restriction on the administrative side of OpenOffice and Apache. -Andre --** --**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**a**pache.orghttp://apache.org dev-unsubscribe@**openoffice.apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On 14.10.2013 10:12, janI wrote: On 14 October 2013 10:00, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 14.10.2013 09:38, janI wrote: Sorry for top posting. There seems to be some confusion, about the project. The goal is not to replace the current system (this is only a potential long time goal). The goal is to make a parallel build system suited for windows developers, and then in a second phase generate makefiles for linux. Now I am confused :-) Can you tell us more about the goal of the new build system? Is it an improvement of building speed (or reduction of time to build), increase the ease of use, or make the system better understandable to developers. Sorry for confusing you. Maybe my problem is that I see things in stages. Don't be sorry. I have been to too many mathematics lectures to mind being a little confused :-) I see it like this: Stage 1) Make a visual studio based build system, suitable for windows developers, and to proof it is possible. Stage 2) Take a long discussion in here, on how this system can/should be expanded to cover all our platforms just for the discussion, assume my ideas are the outcome of 2) Stage 3) Expand 1) to make it cover all our platforms Stage 4) Enable it so that we on linux use standard build mechanisms (e.g. make) enabling us to be part of standard distributions. Stage 5) Remove the current build system. The project I mentor right now, primeraly covers stage 1) and if time permit part of 2) and 3). Thanks for the explanation. I understand your approach a little better now. Just one more question. Do you have something in mind for 1) like CMake where you have a description of WHAT to build and then derive from that a set of files (Makefiles for Unix, or a Visual Studio solution file) that define HOW to build? An increase of the build speed would be great on Windows but hardly possible or necessary on Linux. agreed. Can you tell us how we can manage a third (and possibly a fourth) build system when today we have problems maintaining two? Yes, we keep it in the branch until we want to replace the 2 others OR if we agree live with a third system for a short period of time (this should only be done, if we see a path and have resources to complete the remaining steps). Again, I don't want to sound too negative or discourage you. I just want to understand what you have in mind. Which is very fair. It was a pleasant surprise to me, that the project was selected, so now we have start working, and I dont have all the answers right now, just a direction. I hope this clarifies some of your confusion, its important that we all have the same view. I am sorry for trying to take small steps, but integrating genLang have shown me a lot of the difficulties ahead, and I made a positive decision not to try to change the current system, that would have been too complex (at least for me). It is perfectly OK to take small steps. That is maybe the only way to make any progress in system as complex as our build system. I would like to see you succeed and will help you as good as I can. -Andre rgds jan I. rgds jan I. -Andre In the beginning of this thread I posted information, which is repeated below: == Project SVN Branch: https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/openoffice/branches/**capstone2013https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branches/capstone2013 Motivation AOO’s current build system is old, non-standard, hard to understand, and undocumented. To attract new developers, Apache Software Foundation would like to create a new/modern build system. Objectives 1. Develop a build system for Microsoft Visual Studio (Windows), and Linux. Focus on making Windows development easy. 2. Implement the new build system in parallel with the current build system. 3. Help test the new new build system. Deliverables 1. “How to” report before programming. 2. In June, a build system capable of generating AOO in Windows and in Linux === I have also made a wiki page (also published earlier): http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Build_System_Analysis:** capstone2013_windows_buildhttp://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_System_Analysis:capstone2013_windows_build I encourage everyone to participate in the discussions. rgds jan I. On 14 October 2013 09:26, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 12.10.2013 23:33, Dave Fisher wrote: Perhaps you will unlock the path to a digitally signed build for Windows. That would be huge! I don't think that that is a shortcoming of the build system (which has many). It is more a restriction on the administrative side of OpenOffice and Apache. -Andre --** --**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**a**pache.orghttp://apache.org dev-unsubscribe@**openoffice.apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On 14 October 2013 11:55, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 14.10.2013 10:12, janI wrote: On 14 October 2013 10:00, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 14.10.2013 09:38, janI wrote: Sorry for top posting. There seems to be some confusion, about the project. The goal is not to replace the current system (this is only a potential long time goal). The goal is to make a parallel build system suited for windows developers, and then in a second phase generate makefiles for linux. Now I am confused :-) Can you tell us more about the goal of the new build system? Is it an improvement of building speed (or reduction of time to build), increase the ease of use, or make the system better understandable to developers. Sorry for confusing you. Maybe my problem is that I see things in stages. Don't be sorry. I have been to too many mathematics lectures to mind being a little confused :-) Do you also happen to be a numeric analysis geek like myself ? I see it like this: Stage 1) Make a visual studio based build system, suitable for windows developers, and to proof it is possible. Stage 2) Take a long discussion in here, on how this system can/should be expanded to cover all our platforms just for the discussion, assume my ideas are the outcome of 2) Stage 3) Expand 1) to make it cover all our platforms Stage 4) Enable it so that we on linux use standard build mechanisms (e.g. make) enabling us to be part of standard distributions. Stage 5) Remove the current build system. The project I mentor right now, primeraly covers stage 1) and if time permit part of 2) and 3). Thanks for the explanation. I understand your approach a little better now. Just one more question. Do you have something in mind for 1) like CMake where you have a description of WHAT to build and then derive from that a set of files (Makefiles for Unix, or a Visual Studio solution file) that define HOW to build? I like the CMake structure, and if you look at the .vproj files you will see the following structure (high level). - Description of the project, common directories etc. - Description of the HOWTO, compiler options etc. - Description of the WHAT, which files. Sadly, but true, the structure is nice BUT whenever you have a file exception, you mix. HOWTO and WHAT. I believe we can make a proof of concept with the .proj files, then extent/enhance the XML structure to e.g. get different compiler options from 1 common file. The end result could be 1 XML file for each module describing WHAT to make, with WHICH options, and have 1 (or more) XML files describing the HOWTO. Having that we can use XSLT to generate Makefile, .proj or a third type of files. The XSLT would run as part of configure. An increase of the build speed would be great on Windows but hardly possible or necessary on Linux. agreed. Can you tell us how we can manage a third (and possibly a fourth) build system when today we have problems maintaining two? Yes, we keep it in the branch until we want to replace the 2 others OR if we agree live with a third system for a short period of time (this should only be done, if we see a path and have resources to complete the remaining steps). Again, I don't want to sound too negative or discourage you. I just want to understand what you have in mind. Which is very fair. It was a pleasant surprise to me, that the project was selected, so now we have start working, and I dont have all the answers right now, just a direction. I hope this clarifies some of your confusion, its important that we all have the same view. I am sorry for trying to take small steps, but integrating genLang have shown me a lot of the difficulties ahead, and I made a positive decision not to try to change the current system, that would have been too complex (at least for me). It is perfectly OK to take small steps. That is maybe the only way to make any progress in system as complex as our build system. I would like to see you succeed and will help you as good as I can. thx for your promise. I am no oracle, and have no perfect solution (then I had made it), so much of this project is to experiment and find solutions and for that its good to discuss. rgds jan I. -Andre rgds jan I. rgds jan I. -Andre In the beginning of this thread I posted information, which is repeated below: == Project SVN Branch: https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branches/ capstone2013https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/openoffice/branches/**capstone2013 https://svn.**apache.org/repos/asf/**openoffice/branches/** capstone2013https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branches/capstone2013 Motivation AOO’s current build system is old, non-standard, hard to understand, and undocumented. To attract new developers, Apache Software Foundation would like to create a new/modern build system. Objectives 1
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On 14.10.2013 13:43, janI wrote: On 14 October 2013 11:55, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 14.10.2013 10:12, janI wrote: On 14 October 2013 10:00, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 14.10.2013 09:38, janI wrote: Sorry for top posting. There seems to be some confusion, about the project. The goal is not to replace the current system (this is only a potential long time goal). The goal is to make a parallel build system suited for windows developers, and then in a second phase generate makefiles for linux. Now I am confused :-) Can you tell us more about the goal of the new build system? Is it an improvement of building speed (or reduction of time to build), increase the ease of use, or make the system better understandable to developers. Sorry for confusing you. Maybe my problem is that I see things in stages. Don't be sorry. I have been to too many mathematics lectures to mind being a little confused :-) Do you also happen to be a numeric analysis geek like myself ? My mathematical knowledge does not qualify me as geek in that area, but being a computer scientist and software developer is probably geekish enough. I see it like this: Stage 1) Make a visual studio based build system, suitable for windows developers, and to proof it is possible. Stage 2) Take a long discussion in here, on how this system can/should be expanded to cover all our platforms just for the discussion, assume my ideas are the outcome of 2) Stage 3) Expand 1) to make it cover all our platforms Stage 4) Enable it so that we on linux use standard build mechanisms (e.g. make) enabling us to be part of standard distributions. Stage 5) Remove the current build system. The project I mentor right now, primeraly covers stage 1) and if time permit part of 2) and 3). Thanks for the explanation. I understand your approach a little better now. Just one more question. Do you have something in mind for 1) like CMake where you have a description of WHAT to build and then derive from that a set of files (Makefiles for Unix, or a Visual Studio solution file) that define HOW to build? I like the CMake structure, and if you look at the .vproj files you will see the following structure (high level). - Description of the project, common directories etc. - Description of the HOWTO, compiler options etc. - Description of the WHAT, which files. Sadly, but true, the structure is nice BUT whenever you have a file exception, you mix. HOWTO and WHAT. I believe we can make a proof of concept with the .proj files, then extent/enhance the XML structure to e.g. get different compiler options from 1 common file. The end result could be 1 XML file for each module describing WHAT to make, with WHICH options, and have 1 (or more) XML files describing the HOWTO. Having that we can use XSLT to generate Makefile, .proj or a third type of files. The XSLT would run as part of configure. OK, that sounds good. But keep in mind that our two existing build systems are also following the same approach. They don't use XML files but they both have a separation between WHAT (dmake makefiles per directory vs. gbuild makefiles per module) and HOW (makefiles in solenv/). XML files would be easier to read (by a machine) but that format would be as non-standard as both our dmake and gbuild files. But I will shut up now and let you work on it. An increase of the build speed would be great on Windows but hardly possible or necessary on Linux. agreed. Can you tell us how we can manage a third (and possibly a fourth) build system when today we have problems maintaining two? Yes, we keep it in the branch until we want to replace the 2 others OR if we agree live with a third system for a short period of time (this should only be done, if we see a path and have resources to complete the remaining steps). Again, I don't want to sound too negative or discourage you. I just want to understand what you have in mind. Which is very fair. It was a pleasant surprise to me, that the project was selected, so now we have start working, and I dont have all the answers right now, just a direction. I hope this clarifies some of your confusion, its important that we all have the same view. I am sorry for trying to take small steps, but integrating genLang have shown me a lot of the difficulties ahead, and I made a positive decision not to try to change the current system, that would have been too complex (at least for me). It is perfectly OK to take small steps. That is maybe the only way to make any progress in system as complex as our build system. I would like to see you succeed and will help you as good as I can. thx for your promise. I am no oracle, and have no perfect solution (then I had made it), so much of this project is to experiment and find solutions and for that its good to discuss. Certainly. Nobody expects perfection. And taking the occasional wrong turn
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:38 AM, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 11.10.2013 18:10, janI wrote: Hi. FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU capstone. The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the next months to achieve the following: That is great news. Thank you for pushing this forward. http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/**capstone/viewproposal2013.php?**id=16http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16 extract from above: motivation: Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65 milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and enhancements from AOO. The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933 makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use C++ (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented system. At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want to make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to use especially for windows developers. goal: The goal is to: 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles) One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should be automatically generated. I am not happy with that last sentence. When there is one 'primary' flavor of the build system, then that tends to get much more attention than the other flavors. This happened with both build system that we have. They heavily tend to the Unix side and are slow and hard to use on Windows. I think that we should treat our major platforms (Windows, Linux and Mac) equal. I plead absolute ignorance about Visual Studio 2008, but I thought it could use makefile specifications -- though maybe this is not well-integrated from what I've been reading. In my mind, it would be great to ditch build.pl if we could, and go with a straight makefile setup. We've already worked on this aspect. I have not thoroughly investigated the workings of build.pl, but I'm wondering if it's the mix of what we're trying to build -- e.g. the helpcontent -- that is a bottleneck here. To me, it seems code components could be built in some standard way and these other aspects built in their own environment and plugged in later at some point. Just some thoughts I've had, which might not make any sense. ;} But, I'm happy to see this proposal and I hope it gets accepted. The more eyes we have on the build process, the better. The team must first understand how the current system works in general, and then build scenarios how a \\\perfect\\\** system would look like. Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project. Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help me as well. I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the result works it cannot be less nice than the current system. I hope that you are right. But the our second build system proves that just working does not necessarily result in an improvement. But I don't want to sound too negative. This project is a great start and I believe that you and the students and our community will be able to improve the build system greatly. are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ? As you know, I have already done some reasearch in this area and I would be glad to help. Regards Andre --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- - MzK Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Following the Equator, Mark Twain
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On 14 October 2013 19:44, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:38 AM, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote: On 11.10.2013 18:10, janI wrote: Hi. FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU capstone. The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the next months to achieve the following: That is great news. Thank you for pushing this forward. http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/**capstone/viewproposal2013.php?**id=16 http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16 extract from above: motivation: Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65 milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and enhancements from AOO. The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933 makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use C++ (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented system. At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want to make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to use especially for windows developers. goal: The goal is to: 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles) One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should be automatically generated. I am not happy with that last sentence. When there is one 'primary' flavor of the build system, then that tends to get much more attention than the other flavors. This happened with both build system that we have. They heavily tend to the Unix side and are slow and hard to use on Windows. I think that we should treat our major platforms (Windows, Linux and Mac) equal. I plead absolute ignorance about Visual Studio 2008, but I thought it could use makefile specifications -- though maybe this is not well-integrated from what I've been reading. Makefiles have been integrated since VC 6, but once you start using it you soon find the limits, it would never support a setup like ours. In my mind, it would be great to ditch build.pl if we could, and go with a straight makefile setup. We've already worked on this aspect. To ditch build.pl alone, is a very straight forward task, a real nice task for a new developer. Remember build only controls the module/prj directories and then call dmake to do the rest. Ditching build.pl (which I have done experimental for helpcontent2 and l10ntools) consist of: 1) take the first line of */prj/build.lst and use that to build a Makefile in with module dependencies. 2) for each module use the remaining lines in */prj/build.lst to build a module/Makefile that calls dmake for the existing makefiles 3) for each mdoule use */prj/deliver.lst to expand module/Makefile with a target and a set of copy instructions. It about a little workweek to edit and test the setup. I have not thoroughly investigated the workings of build.pl, but I'm wondering if it's the mix of what we're trying to build -- e.g. the helpcontent -- that is a bottleneck here. To me, it seems code components could be built in some standard way and these other aspects built in their own environment and plugged in later at some point. Just some thoughts I've had, which might not make any sense. ;} I have because of the genLang integration been deep into build (and still are), and e.g. helpcontent2 is solely dmake files, in my ubuntu I have a helpcontent2/Makefile that replaces build.pl for the module. postprocess or instsetoo_native might be a level more difficult, but they are still only dmake make files. I have read the fuzz about having a standard make setup, but I have never understood the complexity (unless you want to make it complex). I would gladly help someone who has time to edit the Makefiles we need. rgd jan I. But, I'm happy to see this proposal and I hope it gets accepted. The more eyes we have on the build process, the better. The team must first understand how the current system works in general, and then build scenarios how a \\\perfect\\\** system would look like. Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project. Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help me as well. I am aware there are very different ideas
Re: Mentor a new build system.
would look like. Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project. Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help me as well. I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the result works it cannot be less nice than the current system. I hope that you are right. But the our second build system proves that just working does not necessarily result in an improvement. But I don't want to sound too negative. This project is a great start and I believe that you and the students and our community will be able to improve the build system greatly. are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ? As you know, I have already done some reasearch in this area and I would be glad to help. Regards Andre --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- - MzK Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Following the Equator, Mark Twain -- - MzK Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Following the Equator, Mark Twain
Re: Mentor a new build system.
that replaces build.pl for the module. postprocess or instsetoo_native might be a level more difficult, but they are still only dmake make files. I have read the fuzz about having a standard make setup, but I have never understood the complexity (unless you want to make it complex). I would gladly help someone who has time to edit the Makefiles we need. rgd jan I. But, I'm happy to see this proposal and I hope it gets accepted. The more eyes we have on the build process, the better. The team must first understand how the current system works in general, and then build scenarios how a \\\perfect\\\** system would look like. Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project. Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help me as well. I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the result works it cannot be less nice than the current system. I hope that you are right. But the our second build system proves that just working does not necessarily result in an improvement. But I don't want to sound too negative. This project is a great start and I believe that you and the students and our community will be able to improve the build system greatly. are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ? As you know, I have already done some reasearch in this area and I would be glad to help. Regards Andre --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- - MzK Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Following the Equator, Mark Twain -- - MzK Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Following the Equator, Mark Twain
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On 12 October 2013 23:33, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Oct 12, 2013, at 9:23 AM, janI wrote: On 12 October 2013 17:55, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 12:10 PM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: Hi. FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU capstone. The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the next months to achieve the following: http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16 extract from above: motivation: Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65 milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and enhancements from AOO. The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933 makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use C++ (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented system. At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want to make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to use especially for windows developers. goal: The goal is to: 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles) One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should be automatically generated. The team must first understand how the current system works in general, and then build scenarios how a \\\perfect\\\ system would look like. Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project. This is very cool. Thanks for applying and making this happen. It is a big task, but improvements to the build system would be a big benefit to the project. One question: When you say microsoft visual studio, did you mean a build fully integrated into the IDE? Or where you thinking more of a command-line build that could be invoked as a command line tool, using Cygwin and the VC++ compiler? It depends of course on the students, but I have made some tests (feasibility studies), and my goal is to have 1 solution consisting of n projects (1 pr module), and totally integrated in the IDE, removing the need for cygwin shell. We of course still need a lot of the cygwin tools (like flex), I would integrate those with the custom build option. If we can achieve that (in parallel with the current build system), I believe (BUT I might be wrong) that extending the projects with makefile information and generating the makefiles is simple (using e.g. XALANC). But I do not want to raise too high expectations, with the state of the current build system, nearly any enhancement will be beneficial. To be honest, the team and I will need help from some of the more knowledgeable committers in the community. Perhaps you will unlock the path to a digitally signed build for Windows. That would be huge! hopefully someone will enlighten me a bit on this theme. I am only aware of the infra effort to give us and other projects code signing possibility, but maybe its the same. I would not be of much help on the technical side of this, but as the project makes progress perhaps I can help publicize the accomplishments via a blog interview or something similar. Thx, all help is appreciated, even hand holding when nothing works :-). OSUSL is the biggest Apache site (infrastructure) and this project is the only apache project selected, so we might see interest from the apache community as well as our own community. OSUOSL is where the template and extension sites were hosted before Roberto moved these to SourceForge. They were such or poor state because they were be updated when Oracle pulled the plug that OSUOSL had turned off their Nagios alerts. The admin was responsive, but it seemed like I was the only one on ooo-dev that figured out how to email them. All for OSUOSL! We have both nagios and circonus (the new system I am installing) alerts again. for general information: I have created: http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_System_Analysis:capstone2013_windows_build where the project will try to document the primary analysis as well as define smaller goals. As we go along, comments on that page will be appreciated. rgds jan I. Regards, Dave I am not marketing, but maybe an interview with the students
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 12:10 PM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: Hi. FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU capstone. The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the next months to achieve the following: http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16 extract from above: motivation: Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65 milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and enhancements from AOO. The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933 makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use C++ (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented system. At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want to make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to use especially for windows developers. goal: The goal is to: 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles) One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should be automatically generated. The team must first understand how the current system works in general, and then build scenarios how a \\\perfect\\\ system would look like. Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project. This is very cool. Thanks for applying and making this happen. It is a big task, but improvements to the build system would be a big benefit to the project. One question: When you say microsoft visual studio, did you mean a build fully integrated into the IDE? Or where you thinking more of a command-line build that could be invoked as a command line tool, using Cygwin and the VC++ compiler? I would not be of much help on the technical side of this, but as the project makes progress perhaps I can help publicize the accomplishments via a blog interview or something similar. Regards, -Rob Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help me as well. I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the result works it cannot be less nice than the current system. are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ? rgds jan I. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On 12 October 2013 17:55, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 12:10 PM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: Hi. FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU capstone. The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the next months to achieve the following: http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16 extract from above: motivation: Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65 milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and enhancements from AOO. The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933 makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use C++ (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented system. At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want to make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to use especially for windows developers. goal: The goal is to: 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles) One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should be automatically generated. The team must first understand how the current system works in general, and then build scenarios how a \\\perfect\\\ system would look like. Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project. This is very cool. Thanks for applying and making this happen. It is a big task, but improvements to the build system would be a big benefit to the project. One question: When you say microsoft visual studio, did you mean a build fully integrated into the IDE? Or where you thinking more of a command-line build that could be invoked as a command line tool, using Cygwin and the VC++ compiler? It depends of course on the students, but I have made some tests (feasibility studies), and my goal is to have 1 solution consisting of n projects (1 pr module), and totally integrated in the IDE, removing the need for cygwin shell. We of course still need a lot of the cygwin tools (like flex), I would integrate those with the custom build option. If we can achieve that (in parallel with the current build system), I believe (BUT I might be wrong) that extending the projects with makefile information and generating the makefiles is simple (using e.g. XALANC). But I do not want to raise too high expectations, with the state of the current build system, nearly any enhancement will be beneficial. To be honest, the team and I will need help from some of the more knowledgeable committers in the community. I would not be of much help on the technical side of this, but as the project makes progress perhaps I can help publicize the accomplishments via a blog interview or something similar. Thx, all help is appreciated, even hand holding when nothing works :-). OSUSL is the biggest Apache site (infrastructure) and this project is the only apache project selected, so we might see interest from the apache community as well as our own community. I am not marketing, but maybe an interview with the students (and if needed also me) on the expectations would be a good idea, to sort of announce it broader ? rgds jan I. Regards, -Rob Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help me as well. I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the result works it cannot be less nice than the current system. are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ? rgds jan I. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Mentor a new build system.
On Oct 12, 2013, at 9:23 AM, janI wrote: On 12 October 2013 17:55, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 12:10 PM, janI j...@apache.org wrote: Hi. FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU capstone. The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the next months to achieve the following: http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16 extract from above: motivation: Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65 milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and enhancements from AOO. The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933 makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use C++ (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented system. At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want to make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to use especially for windows developers. goal: The goal is to: 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles) One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should be automatically generated. The team must first understand how the current system works in general, and then build scenarios how a \\\perfect\\\ system would look like. Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project. This is very cool. Thanks for applying and making this happen. It is a big task, but improvements to the build system would be a big benefit to the project. One question: When you say microsoft visual studio, did you mean a build fully integrated into the IDE? Or where you thinking more of a command-line build that could be invoked as a command line tool, using Cygwin and the VC++ compiler? It depends of course on the students, but I have made some tests (feasibility studies), and my goal is to have 1 solution consisting of n projects (1 pr module), and totally integrated in the IDE, removing the need for cygwin shell. We of course still need a lot of the cygwin tools (like flex), I would integrate those with the custom build option. If we can achieve that (in parallel with the current build system), I believe (BUT I might be wrong) that extending the projects with makefile information and generating the makefiles is simple (using e.g. XALANC). But I do not want to raise too high expectations, with the state of the current build system, nearly any enhancement will be beneficial. To be honest, the team and I will need help from some of the more knowledgeable committers in the community. Perhaps you will unlock the path to a digitally signed build for Windows. That would be huge! I would not be of much help on the technical side of this, but as the project makes progress perhaps I can help publicize the accomplishments via a blog interview or something similar. Thx, all help is appreciated, even hand holding when nothing works :-). OSUSL is the biggest Apache site (infrastructure) and this project is the only apache project selected, so we might see interest from the apache community as well as our own community. OSUOSL is where the template and extension sites were hosted before Roberto moved these to SourceForge. They were such or poor state because they were be updated when Oracle pulled the plug that OSUOSL had turned off their Nagios alerts. The admin was responsive, but it seemed like I was the only one on ooo-dev that figured out how to email them. All for OSUOSL! Regards, Dave I am not marketing, but maybe an interview with the students (and if needed also me) on the expectations would be a good idea, to sort of announce it broader ? rgds jan I. Regards, -Rob Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help me as well. I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the result works it cannot be less nice than the current system. are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ? rgds jan I. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h
Mentor a new build system.
Hi. FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU capstone. The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the next months to achieve the following: http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16 extract from above: motivation: Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65 milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and enhancements from AOO. The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933 makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use C++ (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented system. At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want to make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to use especially for windows developers. goal: The goal is to: 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles) One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should be automatically generated. The team must first understand how the current system works in general, and then build scenarios how a \\\perfect\\\ system would look like. Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project. Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help me as well. I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the result works it cannot be less nice than the current system. are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ? rgds jan I.
Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2013 Mentor Registration
Please note that GSoC mentors are required get acknowledgement from their PMC's. This is to ensure that mentors are actually active participants of the projects they are mentoring with. This doesn't require a vote or discussion or anything. It just requires an ACK from any one PMC member. -Rob -- Forwarded message -- From: Ulrich Stärk u...@apache.org Date: Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 10:34 AM Subject: Google Summer of Code 2013 Mentor Registration To: p...@apache.org Cc: code-awa...@apache.org Dear PMCs, I'm happy to announce that the ASF has made it onto the list of 177 accepted organizations for Google Summer of Code 2013! [1,2] It is now time for the mentors to sign up, so please pass this email on to your community and podlings. Mentor signup requires two steps: mentor signup in Melange and PMC acknowledgement. If you want to mentor a project in this year's SoC you will have to 1. Be an Apache committer. 2. Register with Melange and set up a profile [3]. 3. Add your username (formerly known as link_id) to [4]. This is NOT your email address but your Melange username. You can find it at the top of any page once you are logged in. 4. Request an acknowledgement from the PMC for which you want to mentor projects. Use the below template and do not forget to copy code-awa...@apache.org. 5. Once a PMC member acknowledges the request to mentor, and only then, go to [2] and click the Start a connection button. PMCs, read carefully please. We request that each mentor is acknowledged by a PMC member. This is to ensure the mentor is in good standing with the community. When you receive a request for acknowledgement, please ACK it and cc code-awa...@apache.org Cheers, Uli mentor request email template: to: private@project.apache.org cc: code-awa...@apache.org subject: GSoC 2013 mentor request for mentor name project PMC, please acknowledge my request to become a mentor for Google Summer of Code 2013 projects for Apache project. My Melange username is username. custom content [1] https://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2013 [2] https://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/org/google/gsoc2013/apache [3] https://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2013 [4] https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/GsocLinkId.txt
