Re: some discussion (was: New Committer: Detlef Nannen)

2020-07-02 Thread Marcus

Am 01.07.20 um 21:29 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:

Do you really think it's OK to complain here in this thread about others
which are not invited?
Don't you think that starting a *new* mail thread is the only way to do
this?


Yes, this criticism is justified. I accept it and apologize for not opening a 
new thread.


OK


But only from just 1-2 people, right? I doubt that it was the complete PMC.


As far as I heard the first answer from the PMC to me was already agreed upon 
within the PMC, so this answer was the opinion of the whole PMC, although it 
was given by a single PMC member.


I don't remember about any topic where every PMC has given an opinion 
that was collected first and then an answer was sent to you.



Already this, first, answer I found completely inappropriate and was the 
beginning of a deep disappointment on my part.

Until then I was convinced that at least the PMC in its entirety would react 
with wisdom and in an appropriate way to all problems of the project and that I 
could always hope for support from the PMC, no matter how big the problems were.


Normally you can and should believe in this assumption. However, also 
the PMC consists of humans and these are not always free of errors.



I can only speak openly about what I think, because imho problems can only be 
solved with openness. If this openness is interpreted to me as if I only want 
to provoke, I don't know what to do. I do not believe in polite lies.


and please read me correctly, because I made it very clear that I do not mean 
the whole PMC:

"Let me be more specific: I have little trust in those who are currently have a 
decisive influence on its activities, because there are also members of the PMC whose 
performance I regard with great respect and many members whom I have never got to know 
concretely."


OK, this is your experience and therefore your opinion. Other inside and 
outside the PMC may have made different experiences.



BTW:
When someone is not invited until now means *of course not* that the
person is not wanted. Because it is also possible that the PMC don't
know her/him or doesn't see the full amount of participation in the
OpenOffice project.


How could a person not be known with whom e.g. Mathias has worked together? A 
person who had also worked on the previous flyers.


I don't know how but it is possible. Even when we stand for open source 
and open communication, there are parts that are maybe not open or not 
open enough.


As always, these are my 2ct.

Marcus


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some discussion (was: New Committer: Detlef Nannen)

2020-07-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt
Hello,

> Do you really think it's OK to complain here in this thread about others 
> which are not invited?
> Don't you think that starting a *new* mail thread is the only way to do 
> this?

Yes, this criticism is justified. I accept it and apologize for not opening a 
new thread.

> But only from just 1-2 people, right? I doubt that it was the complete PMC.

As far as I heard the first answer from the PMC to me was already agreed upon 
within the PMC, so this answer was the opinion of the whole PMC, although it 
was given by a single PMC member.

Already this, first, answer I found completely inappropriate and was the 
beginning of a deep disappointment on my part.

Until then I was convinced that at least the PMC in its entirety would react 
with wisdom and in an appropriate way to all problems of the project and that I 
could always hope for support from the PMC, no matter how big the problems were.

I can only speak openly about what I think, because imho problems can only be 
solved with openness. If this openness is interpreted to me as if I only want 
to provoke, I don't know what to do. I do not believe in polite lies. 


and please read me correctly, because I made it very clear that I do not mean 
the whole PMC:

"Let me be more specific: I have little trust in those who are currently have a 
decisive influence on its activities, because there are also members of the PMC 
whose performance I regard with great respect and many members whom I have 
never got to know concretely."

> BTW:
> When someone is not invited until now means *of course not* that the 
> person is not wanted. Because it is also possible that the PMC don't 
> know her/him or doesn't see the full amount of participation in the 
> OpenOffice project.

How could a person not be known with whom e.g. Mathias has worked together? A 
person who had also worked on the previous flyers.



Greetings,
Jörg


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