Re: [dev] Ada not Rust
Hello, > I have PREFIX defined in my environment and make use if it in scripts as > well as in Makefiles, so I don't generally have to pass it in on the > commandline. I could certainly run it as `PREFIX=$PREFIX make`.I have > to use my own PREFIX on the several shared servers I use where I compile > and install my own apps local to just me. You could run make -e, if you insist on using environment variables (I find this a bit dangerous though). Or just, almost as you said, make PREFIX="$PREFIX", that could even be an alias (a bit more reliable than make -e). > It's fine to make a decision to not use `?=` because of POSIX or whatever. Yes it is
Re: [dev] Completeness suckless
Laslo Hunhold wrote: > I used to be more open towards "more user-friendliness" a few years ago, > but realized that if you look at modern users, most of them are > unwilling to invest time and effort into getting something to work and > expect too much from others in terms of support and guidance. > Initiatives to "open up" such things are noble in their motivations, > but actually make things worse. Spot on. For me "user-friendly" means "straightforward once learned". Unix is, as such, user-friendly. suckless too. -- caóc
Re: [dev] Ada not Rust
On 4/26/21 2:39 PM, Mattias Andrée wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 10:10:20 -0400
Ross Mohn wrote:
On 4/23/21 10:12 PM, Jeremy wrote:
On 04/20/21 10:23AM, Greg Reagle wrote:
On Tue, Apr 20, 2021, at 09:45, Jeremy wrote:
I gave up on using dvtm a while ago (now I use tmux which is good) because it
would keep crashing. And I could not figure out how to debug the crashes or get
specific information about the cause of the crashes. If I had known about these
options then I would have compiled dvtm with them and maybe gave better bug
reports. (Though I know C, I am not an expert in C.)
I know what you're talking about & it's a pain in the ass. I believe
this is due to the ANSI parser implementation(vt.c) that DVTM uses.
I wrote a library, libst(a fork of st), and modified st, dvtm to link against
it:
https://github.com/jeremybobbin/libst
Try compiling & installing libst, then compile & run dvtm in libst/examples.
As much as I love dvtm, I believe it's a captive user interface, and
lacks the extensibility that a terminal multiplexer could/should provide.
Attempting to address this, I wrote, what I believe to be, a suckless
approach to terminal multiplexing - svtm:
https://github.com/jeremybobbin/svtm
svtm is a composition of primarily 4 programs:
- abduco - {at,de}tach
- svt- TTY state/dumping/scrolling
- bmac - byte-for-byte macros
- itty - lets you run TTY input through a filter(such as bmac)
I'd like to add a "paner" program to that list, but for now, the above
is all you need to express any terminal-oriented workflow in a UNIX
environment.
I'm curious as to what y'all think.
Jeremy
I and my entire team have been actively and successfully using dvtm for
years. I haven't had it crash in a long while now, and I regularly keep
sessions alive for months. However, I am very interested in using
something as you describe above, with a library version of st that is
kept up-to-date. I didn't get your svtm to work out-of-the-box, but I
will continue to debug it myself. I got all the programs to compile
fine, but did go into each Makefile and, where necessary, added the '?'
character to this line "PREFIX ?= /usr/local".
Why do you need `?=`. The only difference between `=` and `?=`?
Apart from `=` beginning the only assignment operator defined by POSIX,
is that `?=` has no effect if the variable is already defined wheras
`=` does not have any effect if the variable is set in the command line.
-Ross
I have PREFIX defined in my environment and make use if it in scripts as
well as in Makefiles, so I don't generally have to pass it in on the
commandline. I could certainly run it as `PREFIX=$PREFIX make`. I have
to use my own PREFIX on the several shared servers I use where I compile
and install my own apps local to just me. It's fine to make a decision
to not use `?=` because of POSIX or whatever.
Re: [dev] Ada not Rust
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 10:10:20 -0400
Ross Mohn wrote:
> On 4/23/21 10:12 PM, Jeremy wrote:
> > On 04/20/21 10:23AM, Greg Reagle wrote:
> >> On Tue, Apr 20, 2021, at 09:45, Jeremy wrote:
> >> I gave up on using dvtm a while ago (now I use tmux which is good) because
> >> it
> >> would keep crashing. And I could not figure out how to debug the crashes
> >> or get
> >> specific information about the cause of the crashes. If I had known about
> >> these
> >> options then I would have compiled dvtm with them and maybe gave better bug
> >> reports. (Though I know C, I am not an expert in C.)
> > I know what you're talking about & it's a pain in the ass. I believe
> > this is due to the ANSI parser implementation(vt.c) that DVTM uses.
> >
> > I wrote a library, libst(a fork of st), and modified st, dvtm to link
> > against it:
> > https://github.com/jeremybobbin/libst
> >
> > Try compiling & installing libst, then compile & run dvtm in libst/examples.
> >
> > As much as I love dvtm, I believe it's a captive user interface, and
> > lacks the extensibility that a terminal multiplexer could/should provide.
> >
> > Attempting to address this, I wrote, what I believe to be, a suckless
> > approach to terminal multiplexing - svtm:
> > https://github.com/jeremybobbin/svtm
> >
> > svtm is a composition of primarily 4 programs:
> > - abduco - {at,de}tach
> > - svt- TTY state/dumping/scrolling
> > - bmac - byte-for-byte macros
> > - itty - lets you run TTY input through a filter(such as bmac)
> >
> > I'd like to add a "paner" program to that list, but for now, the above
> > is all you need to express any terminal-oriented workflow in a UNIX
> > environment.
> >
> > I'm curious as to what y'all think.
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> I and my entire team have been actively and successfully using dvtm for
> years. I haven't had it crash in a long while now, and I regularly keep
> sessions alive for months. However, I am very interested in using
> something as you describe above, with a library version of st that is
> kept up-to-date. I didn't get your svtm to work out-of-the-box, but I
> will continue to debug it myself. I got all the programs to compile
> fine, but did go into each Makefile and, where necessary, added the '?'
> character to this line "PREFIX ?= /usr/local".
Why do you need `?=`. The only difference between `=` and `?=`?
Apart from `=` beginning the only assignment operator defined by POSIX,
is that `?=` has no effect if the variable is already defined wheras
`=` does not have any effect if the variable is set in the command line.
>
> -Ross
>
>
Re: [dev] Ada not Rust
On 4/23/21 10:12 PM, Jeremy wrote:
On 04/20/21 10:23AM, Greg Reagle wrote:
On Tue, Apr 20, 2021, at 09:45, Jeremy wrote:
I gave up on using dvtm a while ago (now I use tmux which is good) because it
would keep crashing. And I could not figure out how to debug the crashes or get
specific information about the cause of the crashes. If I had known about these
options then I would have compiled dvtm with them and maybe gave better bug
reports. (Though I know C, I am not an expert in C.)
I know what you're talking about & it's a pain in the ass. I believe
this is due to the ANSI parser implementation(vt.c) that DVTM uses.
I wrote a library, libst(a fork of st), and modified st, dvtm to link against
it:
https://github.com/jeremybobbin/libst
Try compiling & installing libst, then compile & run dvtm in libst/examples.
As much as I love dvtm, I believe it's a captive user interface, and
lacks the extensibility that a terminal multiplexer could/should provide.
Attempting to address this, I wrote, what I believe to be, a suckless
approach to terminal multiplexing - svtm:
https://github.com/jeremybobbin/svtm
svtm is a composition of primarily 4 programs:
- abduco - {at,de}tach
- svt- TTY state/dumping/scrolling
- bmac - byte-for-byte macros
- itty - lets you run TTY input through a filter(such as bmac)
I'd like to add a "paner" program to that list, but for now, the above
is all you need to express any terminal-oriented workflow in a UNIX
environment.
I'm curious as to what y'all think.
Jeremy
I and my entire team have been actively and successfully using dvtm for
years. I haven't had it crash in a long while now, and I regularly keep
sessions alive for months. However, I am very interested in using
something as you describe above, with a library version of st that is
kept up-to-date. I didn't get your svtm to work out-of-the-box, but I
will continue to debug it myself. I got all the programs to compile
fine, but did go into each Makefile and, where necessary, added the '?'
character to this line "PREFIX ?= /usr/local".
-Ross
