Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Björn Persson]

Aurelien Bompard wrote:
> do you mind opening a ticket on FMN's tracker please?

Done: https://github.com/fedora-infra/fmn/issues/901

Björn Persson


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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek]

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 10:30:01AM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 08:56:57AM -, Aurelien Bompard wrote:
> > > So… I understand why this default was chosen, but I think that it'd be 
> > > better
> > > to change the default to something narrow-but-reasonable, especially for
> > > new users. If I'm new to Fedora, I probably wouldn't know about fmn and
> > > it'd be hard to discover. But if I get even a few notifications, I'd be
> > > aware of it. I think a default of at least "My events" sent to IRC/Matrix
> > > would be reasonable.
> > 
> > That's very interesting. I think we could go this route but there are a few 
> > things that need to be sorted out:
> > - the old FMN is still running, so we'll need to wait until we turn it off 
> > so that people don't get double notifications
> > - we could add a default rule such as "my actions" for new users, but users 
> > are only registering their email at account creation time, FMN won't know 
> > about Matrix or IRC at that point
> > - what about users who add a matrix / irc address later? Should it update 
> > the default rule? But only for users who recently created an account?
> > - some important apps are not using FMN, such as Bohdi, and external 
> > applications. I'm afraid we may spam new users with duplicate notifications 
> > that they do not expect.
> > - the FMN notifications are still a bit rough around the edges, I'd be more 
> > confident if we let the dust settle a little bit, and we sanitized 
> > duplicates and incomplete messages before we enable it for new users by 
> > default
> > 
> > All this should be discussed in a ticket, do you mind opening one with your 
> > proposal here [1] ?

→ https://github.com/fedora-infra/fmn/issues/900

Zbyszek
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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Aurelien Bompard]

We might be able to make it work with 
https://www.npmjs.com/package/es-module-shims, do you mind opening a ticket on 
FMN's tracker please?
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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Björn Persson]

Aurelien Bompard wrote:
> If I understand correctly, you browser's javascript engine can't run the app?

That's how it seems at least. This error message might be relevant:

Error: SyntaxError: expected expression, got keyword 'import'
File: https://notifications.fedoraproject.org/assets/index-82e1ce33.js
Line: 19, column: 17689 
Code: 
login/fedora",name:"auth-login-fedora",component:()=>Jr(()=>import("./LoginFedora-631fa1c1.js"),[])}),t.isReady().then((

> which browser are you using?

Seamonkey. I originally switched to Seamonkey to keep the Web calm when
the ability to stop GIF animations was removed from Firefox. That's
still relevant in places, but these days the greatest advantage of
Seamonkey is that I don't have to relearn how to do things each time
Firefox's user interface gets reshuffled.

Björn Persson


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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 08:56:57AM -, Aurelien Bompard wrote:
> > So… I understand why this default was chosen, but I think that it'd be 
> > better
> > to change the default to something narrow-but-reasonable, especially for
> > new users. If I'm new to Fedora, I probably wouldn't know about fmn and
> > it'd be hard to discover. But if I get even a few notifications, I'd be
> > aware of it. I think a default of at least "My events" sent to IRC/Matrix
> > would be reasonable.
> 
> That's very interesting. I think we could go this route but there are a few 
> things that need to be sorted out:
> - the old FMN is still running, so we'll need to wait until we turn it off so 
> that people don't get double notifications
> - we could add a default rule such as "my actions" for new users, but users 
> are only registering their email at account creation time, FMN won't know 
> about Matrix or IRC at that point
> - what about users who add a matrix / irc address later? Should it update the 
> default rule? But only for users who recently created an account?
> - some important apps are not using FMN, such as Bohdi, and external 
> applications. I'm afraid we may spam new users with duplicate notifications 
> that they do not expect.
> - the FMN notifications are still a bit rough around the edges, I'd be more 
> confident if we let the dust settle a little bit, and we sanitized duplicates 
> and incomplete messages before we enable it for new users by default
> 
> All this should be discussed in a ticket, do you mind opening one with your 
> proposal here [1] ?

FWIW, the old fmn listened for messages from fas2 that someone was added
to the 'packager' group and if so, it created them an account and a
default set of rules.

Perhaps we could do something similar here? 

ie, default most users to no rules, but have a default set for
packagers. 

But then we would have to decide what those default rules are.

Anyhow, just some data from what the old one did.

kevin


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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Aurelien Bompard]

> So… I understand why this default was chosen, but I think that it'd be better
> to change the default to something narrow-but-reasonable, especially for
> new users. If I'm new to Fedora, I probably wouldn't know about fmn and
> it'd be hard to discover. But if I get even a few notifications, I'd be
> aware of it. I think a default of at least "My events" sent to IRC/Matrix
> would be reasonable.

That's very interesting. I think we could go this route but there are a few 
things that need to be sorted out:
- the old FMN is still running, so we'll need to wait until we turn it off so 
that people don't get double notifications
- we could add a default rule such as "my actions" for new users, but users are 
only registering their email at account creation time, FMN won't know about 
Matrix or IRC at that point
- what about users who add a matrix / irc address later? Should it update the 
default rule? But only for users who recently created an account?
- some important apps are not using FMN, such as Bohdi, and external 
applications. I'm afraid we may spam new users with duplicate notifications 
that they do not expect.
- the FMN notifications are still a bit rough around the edges, I'd be more 
confident if we let the dust settle a little bit, and we sanitized duplicates 
and incomplete messages before we enable it for new users by default

All this should be discussed in a ticket, do you mind opening one with your 
proposal here [1] ?

Thanks!

[1] https://github.com/fedora-infra/fmn/issues

> IIUC, the old fmn will continue sending until either the user disables it in 
> their
> config or it goes offline (end of 2023?).

We aim to shutdown the old FMN after F39.

A.
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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Aurelien Bompard]

> But the program requires something that my browser
> doesn't have, so nothing is displayed.

If I understand correctly, you browser's javascript engine can't run the app?

There are some tools in the development chain we use that are translating the 
TypeScript code we write to something that can be run by all JS interpreters, 
or so I thought. Maybe there's a build setting that we could set that would 
instruct the translator to aim for a group of browsers that include yours? I 
can have a a look at that, which browser are you using?

A.
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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Björn Persson]

Aurelien Bompard wrote:
> > I see only a blank page. So it has strict requirements for which
> > Javascript runners can be used to run it, then?  
> 
> Yes, the UI is written in javascript (Typescript with Vue.js to be precise). 
> We should probably add a noscript tag to make that clearer.

I won't see that. I have whitelisted Javascript from fedoraproject.org,
so my browser will ignore the content of noscript and try to run the
Javascript program. But the program requires something that my browser
doesn't have, so nothing is displayed.

The new FMN is far from alone. These demanding Javascript programs are
becoming ever more common, and I can no longer avoid all of them. None
the less it's frustrating each time I have to start another browser and
cope with a worse user interface to run one of those programs.

A locally installed program would have a file header specifying the
executable format, or a shebang specifying which interpreter to use,
and RPM dependencies would ensure that the correct interpreter is
installed. For a web program there's no way to specify in the URL which
Javascript interpreter shall be used to run the program, so I have to
figure out and remember when I have to start the browser for demanding
Javascript programs and when I can use the browser with the stable and
sensible user interface.

Björn Persson


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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek]

On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 11:05:53AM -, Michael J Gruber wrote:
> Speaking of not obvious ...
> 
> One starts with no rule at all. Does that mean no notifications? I.e., is 
> include or exclude the default?

Yes, the default is no notifications at all.

So… I understand why this default was chosen, but I think that it'd be better
to change the default to something narrow-but-reasonable, especially for
new users. If I'm new to Fedora, I probably wouldn't know about fmn and
it'd be hard to discover. But if I get even a few notifications, I'd be
aware of it. I think a default of at least "My events" sent to IRC/Matrix
would be reasonable.

> A few templates might not hurt. Or is that what "tracking rule" means?
> 
> Should we disable all rules on the old fmn, i.e. does the old one keep 
> sending, or is it just the rule interface which differs?

IIUC, the old fmn will continue sending until either the user disables it in 
their
config or it goes offline (end of 2023?).

> Is there no documentation/help or did I just fail to find it?


Zbyszek
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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Michael J Gruber]

Speaking of not obvious ...

One starts with no rule at all. Does that mean no notifications? I.e., is 
include or exclude the default?

A few templates might not hurt. Or is that what "tracking rule" means?

Should we disable all rules on the old fmn, i.e. does the old one keep sending, 
or is it just the rule interface which differs?

Is there no documentation/help or did I just fail to find it?
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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek]

On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 09:50:05AM -, Aurelien Bompard wrote:
> > Are only email notifications supported?
> 
> No, it can do IRC and Matrix as well.
> 
> > (On the new website, it says "Add destination", and in the drop down menu
> > there's only my email address.)
> 
> The available destinations are retrieved from your user profile on
> Noggin (https://accounts.fedoraproject.org), so that's where you
> should enter them. Only one source of truth! :-)

It works now. But it's not obvious. I filed an RFE:
https://github.com/fedora-infra/fmn/issues/892

> > Side note: there is "Add new rule" and "Create rule", and they both
> > lead to the
> > same target. Having two different names adds a bit of cognitive overhead 
> > that is
> > unnecessary.
> 
> Good point, could you please open a ticket at 
> https://github.com/fedora-infra/fmn/issues ?

https://github.com/fedora-infra/fmn/issues/891

Thanks!
Zbyszek
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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Aurelien Bompard]

> Are only email notifications supported?

No, it can do IRC and Matrix as well.

> (On the new website, it says "Add destination", and in the drop down menu
> there's only my email address.)

The available destinations are retrieved from your user profile on Noggin 
(https://accounts.fedoraproject.org), so that's where you should enter them. 
Only one source of truth! :-)

> Side note: there is "Add new rule" and "Create rule", and they both
> lead to the
> same target. Having two different names adds a bit of cognitive overhead that 
> is
> unnecessary.

Good point, could you please open a ticket at 
https://github.com/fedora-infra/fmn/issues ?
Thanks for the feedback!

Aurélien
> 
> Zbyszek
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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek]

On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 03:04:51PM +0200, Aurelien Bompard wrote:
> We plan on:
> - deploying the new version on https://notifications.fedoraproject.org

Hi!

Are only email notifications supported?
(On the new website, it says "Add destination", and in the drop down menu
there's only my email address.)

Side note: there is "Add new rule" and "Create rule", and they both lead to the
same target. Having two different names adds a bit of cognitive overhead that is
unnecessary.

Zbyszek
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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Aurelien Bompard]

> I see only a blank page. So it has strict requirements for which
> Javascript runners can be used to run it, then?

Yes, the UI is written in javascript (Typescript with Vue.js to be precise). We 
should probably add a noscript tag to make that clearer.
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Re: Fwd: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Aurelien Bompard]

> I'm still a bit confused what I need to do though: It looks like
> notifications-old is still running, as I continue to get IRC
> notifications from it ...
> - How long are the old and new services expected to continue running
> in parallel?

Yeah we'll keep running both until F39 to give time to people to migrate.

> - If I start adding rules for IRC notifications in notifications-new,
> will I get duplicate notifications unless I remove the corresponding
> filters from notifications-old?

Correct.

> - Do I need to keep rules for services that aren't supported by
> notifications-new in notifications-old if I want to continue getting
> notifications for those services?

Correct again.

I hope that clarifies.
Aurélien
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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Björn Persson]

Aurelien Bompard wrote:
> OK, the switch is complete, the new notifications app is at 
> https://notifications.fedoraproject.org, and if necessary you'll see a link 
> to the old app there.

I see only a blank page. So it has strict requirements for which
Javascript runners can be used to run it, then?

Björn Persson


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Re: Fwd: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Fabio Valentini]

On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 12:46 PM Aurelien Bompard
 wrote:
>
> > So ... what happens when the switch to the "new" Notifications app
> > happens? Are the same "defaults" that are configured for the IRC
> > delivery mechanism in the "old" Notifications app applied to all
> > users, or does everybody start with a "blank slate", i.e. will I need
> > to manually create new filters to keep getting the same notifications
> > I currently get?
>
> Everybody starts with a blank slate. We thought it was preferrable to having 
> users suddenly get notifications they didn't expect.

Ok ... well, that kind of makes sense. If you can't migrate
configuration, better not do something unexpected.
I'm still a bit confused what I need to do though: It looks like
notifications-old is still running, as I continue to get IRC
notifications from it ...

- How long are the old and new services expected to continue running
in parallel?
- If I start adding rules for IRC notifications in notifications-new,
will I get duplicate notifications unless I remove the corresponding
filters from notifications-old?
- Do I need to keep rules for services that aren't supported by
notifications-new in notifications-old if I want to continue getting
notifications for those services?

Fabio
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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Aurelien Bompard]

Hey!

Bugzilla, Pagure, Bodhi and Discussion are all apps that have their own 
notification systems, as you've noticed. The notifications that FMN handles are 
for apps that don't, such as Koji for example. But the old FMN being unreliable 
has discouraged app owners to use it. That may change now.
One day we may have Bodhi's notifications handled through FMN as well.

Hopefully the new FMN will let you subscribe to 7 without getting 6 :-)

Thanks!

Aurélien
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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Aurelien Bompard]

OK, the switch is complete, the new notifications app is at 
https://notifications.fedoraproject.org, and if necessary you'll see a link to 
the old app there.

Please open issues at https://github.com/fedora-infra/fmn/issues if you find 
any. Thanks!

Aurélien
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Re: Fwd: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Aurelien Bompard]

> So ... what happens when the switch to the "new" Notifications app
> happens? Are the same "defaults" that are configured for the IRC
> delivery mechanism in the "old" Notifications app applied to all
> users, or does everybody start with a "blank slate", i.e. will I need
> to manually create new filters to keep getting the same notifications
> I currently get?

Everybody starts with a blank slate. We thought it was preferrable to having 
users suddenly get notifications they didn't expect.

> What will happen to email notifications? They appear to be "enabled"
> in the "old" Notifications app but I never get any email notifications

Email notifications should work with the new app, but you're totally free to 
not enable email in your notification destinations (it's a per-rule setting).

Thanks for the feedback!

A.
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Fwd: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Fabio Valentini]

On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 3:31 PM Aurelien Bompard
 wrote:
>
> Hi folks!
>
> The "FMN replacement" team has finished writing the new version of our
> notification system, and we are ready to deploy!
>
> We plan on:
> - deploying the new version on https://notifications.fedoraproject.org
> this week,
> - keep the old one around but move it to https://apps.fp.o/notifications-old
> - redirect from https://apps.fp.o/notifications to the new place.
> (fp.o being an abbreviation for fedoraproject.org)
>
> You will thus still be able to access the current FMN, and it will
> keep running until F39. Due to the difference in features, we can't
> import existing rules into the new system, so we encourage you to
> create new rules that suit you as soon as the new system is up and
> running.
>
> The change of URLs will happen with the planned outage set for
> 2023-04-24 08:30 UTC (this Wednesday), see ticket 11266
>  for details.
>
> If you have issues with the new FMN, please open infra tickets at:
> https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
>
> We hope you will enjoy the simpler UI and faster processing speed that
> the new FMN brings.

Thank you for working on this! However, I am a little bit confused
about what (if anything) I need to do to keep getting the same
notifications.

Looking at the "old" Notifications app, I have both IRC and Email
delivery mechanisms marked as "active", but I never get E-Mail
notifications, I only get them from  via IRC.
There's also no rules in the tab for the email delivery mechanism (but
also no button to add any???), but there *are* pretty complex / big
rules in the IRC tab (which I don't remember setting up, so they are
likely the default settings for new users?) ...

So ... what happens when the switch to the "new" Notifications app
happens? Are the same "defaults" that are configured for the IRC
delivery mechanism in the "old" Notifications app applied to all
users, or does everybody start with a "blank slate", i.e. will I need
to manually create new filters to keep getting the same notifications
I currently get?

What will happen to email notifications? They appear to be "enabled"
in the "old" Notifications app but I never get any email notifications
(I only get emails from bugzilla, bodhi, and koji, and these all use
separate systems for sending email-based notifications, if I
understand correctly). Can I safely ignore this and just not configure
any rules for email delivery in the new app to keep this behaviour?

Fabio
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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Otto Liljalaakso]

Aurelien Bompard kirjoitti 24.4.2023 klo 16.04:

Hi folks!

The "FMN replacement" team has finished writing the new version of our
notification system, and we are ready to deploy!



You will thus still be able to access the current FMN, and it will
keep running until F39. Due to the difference in features, we can't
import existing rules into the new system, so we encourage you to
create new rules that suit you as soon as the new system is up and
running.



We hope you will enjoy the simpler UI and faster processing speed that
the new FMN brings.


Thank you for working on this. I am not exactly sure how this will 
affect things, but my hopes are high that I can be better notifications now.


My current situation is not ideal. I *think* I currently get the following:

1. Bugzilla's own notifications (probably configurable there, but the 
defaults are ok and I have trouble with the Bugzilla UI, so I have not 
bothered to check)

2. Pagure.io's own notifications (nicely configurable there)
3. src.fedoraproject.org's own notifications (nicely configurable there)
4. Bodhi's notifications (not sure if they are sent by Bodhi or some 
middleman, I wouldn't know how to adjust these even if I wanted to)

5. Fedora Discussion's own notifications (nicely configurable there)
6. Random junk that either duplicates the above or I cannot make any 
sense of (I presume this comes from the old thing that is now being 
replaced, but other than that, I have no idea how I could configure this)
7. Sometimes there is a notification that looks similar to the junk from 
6 but actually has interesting information, like that I received a 
Fedora Badge (the fear of losing these diminishes my willingness to try 
out random things to avoid 6)


First, I would like to keep 1 — 5 and get rid of 6. Retaining 7 would be 
nice but not critical. But I am so confused regarding the notifications 
that I am not sure how to achieve that. Is there some kind of guide 
available on how to set up Fedora notifications in general, so I could 
try to clean up things for myself?

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Re: The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Justin W. Flory (he/him)]

Congratulations on the new release, and thanks team for the hard work on
modernizing FMN over the past several months.

On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 9:31 AM Aurelien Bompard 
wrote:

> Hi folks!
>
> The "FMN replacement" team has finished writing the new version of our
> notification system, and we are ready to deploy!
>
> We plan on:
> - deploying the new version on https://notifications.fedoraproject.org
> this week,
> - keep the old one around but move it to
> https://apps.fp.o/notifications-old
> - redirect from https://apps.fp.o/notifications to the new place.
> (fp.o being an abbreviation for fedoraproject.org)
>
> You will thus still be able to access the current FMN, and it will
> keep running until F39. Due to the difference in features, we can't
> import existing rules into the new system, so we encourage you to
> create new rules that suit you as soon as the new system is up and
> running.
>
> The change of URLs will happen with the planned outage set for
> 2023-04-24 08:30 UTC (this Wednesday), see ticket 11266
>  for details.
>
> If you have issues with the new FMN, please open infra tickets at:
> https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
>
> We hope you will enjoy the simpler UI and faster processing speed that
> the new FMN brings.
>
> Cheers!
> Aurélien
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The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Aurelien Bompard]

Hi folks!

The "FMN replacement" team has finished writing the new version of our
notification system, and we are ready to deploy!

We plan on:
- deploying the new version on https://notifications.fedoraproject.org
this week,
- keep the old one around but move it to https://apps.fp.o/notifications-old
- redirect from https://apps.fp.o/notifications to the new place.
(fp.o being an abbreviation for fedoraproject.org)

You will thus still be able to access the current FMN, and it will
keep running until F39. Due to the difference in features, we can't
import existing rules into the new system, so we encourage you to
create new rules that suit you as soon as the new system is up and
running.

The change of URLs will happen with the planned outage set for
2023-04-24 08:30 UTC (this Wednesday), see ticket 11266
 for details.

If you have issues with the new FMN, please open infra tickets at:
https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue

We hope you will enjoy the simpler UI and faster processing speed that
the new FMN brings.

Cheers!
Aurélien
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The new version of Fedora Messaging Notifications will arrive this week

[Aurelien Bompard]

Hi folks!

The "FMN replacement" team has finished writing the new version of our
notification system, and we are ready to deploy!

We plan on:
- deploying the new version on https://notifications.fedoraproject.org
this week,
- keep the old one around but move it to https://apps.fp.o/notifications-old
- redirect from https://apps.fp.o/notifications to the new place.
(fp.o being an abbreviation for fedoraproject.org)

You will thus still be able to access the current FMN, and it will
keep running until F39. Due to the difference in features, we can't
import existing rules into the new system, so we encourage you to
create new rules that suit you as soon as the new system is up and
running.

The change of URLs will happen with the planned outage set for
2023-04-24 08:30 UTC (this Wednesday), see ticket 11266
 for details.

If you have issues with the new FMN, please open infra tickets at:
https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue

We hope you will enjoy the simpler UI and faster processing speed that
the new FMN brings.

Cheers!
Aurélien
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