Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 09:01:31AM -0700, Hope Merritt wrote: >All, > >The patches will not work do to a limitation in the >Dell system BIOS and Intel VBIOS. Dell locks their >pre-allocated (once called stolen) memory at 1MB and >therefore you will be limited in modes on Linux since >the VBIOS limits its modes to the amount of >pre-allocated memory. Intel has implemented a >workaround, but it would require Dell to implement one >of Intels latest VBIOS drops in there systems BIOS >and then update the system BIOS. I would expect any >855 release of system BIOS from Dell in the next 2 >months to have the VBIOS that allows the Xserver to >report memory it allocated to the VBIOS and the modes >could be adjusted. Another problem I get a lot of reports about is that the VBIOS doesn't support video modes like 1400x1050, the panel resolution used by a number of laptops. David -- David Dawes Founder/committer/developer The XFree86 Project www.XFree86.org/~dawes ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
RE: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
Egbert Eich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > driver sets modes by using the video bios. That way it does not have to > > have full programming capabilities for 3rd party components. The XFree > > driver is therefore limited to what the vbios can do while the Windows > > driver is not. > > Anyway, the solution in this case however should be much simpler: > the BIOS knows about the other modes as they get listed. It just > refuses to set them them it doesn't see more than 892 kB of video > memory. The BIOS just needs to be convinced of that. We had two > ways of doing that. One was by setting some BIOS flags, the other > was using a VESA BIOS interface. For whatever reason there is at > least one more way. Now it is the BIOS vendors' term to provide us > with the necessary information. AFAIK for the BIOS'es that vendors have not updated to the latest from Intel, there is no way to force the BIOS to recognise more than the amount of memory that is set during POST. The Windows drivers simply do not use the BIOS, and hence this flag setting is irrelevant to the function of the Windows drivers. The only solution I am afraid is to get the vendors to update their BIOS and make the updated BIOS available to their customers. Regards, --- Kendall Bennett Chief Executive Officer SciTech Software, Inc. Phone: (530) 894 8400 http://www.scitechsoft.com ~ SciTech SNAP - The future of device driver technology! ~ ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
Egbert Eich wrote: Sottek, Matthew J writes: > The Windows driver does full mode programming including all the external > digital components from many 3rd party companies. The open source XFree This is pretty much what the SiS driver does after Thomas got his hands on it. It programms the SiS and it knows about several video bridges attached to it. OT, but for the record: With SiS, it is actuall the other way round. SiS' Windows drivers do mode changes _exclusively_ by calling the BIOS. That's why they never need to update their Windows driver... and produce zillions of different BIOSes instead :( Thomas -- Thomas Winischhofer Vienna/Austria thomas AT winischhofer DOT net http://www.winischhofer.net/ twini AT xfree86 DOT org ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
RE: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
Sottek, Matthew J writes: > The Windows driver does full mode programming including all the external > digital components from many 3rd party companies. The open source XFree This is pretty much what the SiS driver does after Thomas got his hands on it. It programms the SiS and it knows about several video bridges attached to it. > driver sets modes by using the video bios. That way it does not have to > have full programming capabilities for 3rd party components. The XFree > driver is therefore limited to what the vbios can do while the Windows > driver is not. > It is nice to know that - yet it doesn't solve our problem. The users want to use their systems at resolutions and depths that are common these days and they care very little about it what the capablilities of the BIOS are. I know that the BIOS offers a rather easy way to get over the very difficult task of getting the video modes right. In fact I was the one who started the int10 and VESA BIOS stuff - mainly to get the secondary graphics boards posted. However we realize over and over again that the implementation of the VESA BIOS functions is done sloppy and that we are seeing more problems (which we cannot fix) as if we had gone the hard route. Anyway, the solution in this case however should be much simpler: the BIOS knows about the other modes as they get listed. It just refuses to set them them it doesn't see more than 892 kB of video memory. The BIOS just needs to be convinced of that. We had two ways of doing that. One was by setting some BIOS flags, the other was using a VESA BIOS interface. For whatever reason there is at least one more way. Now it is the BIOS vendors' term to provide us with the necessary information. Egbert. ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
RE: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
The Windows driver does full mode programming including all the external digital components from many 3rd party companies. The open source XFree driver sets modes by using the video bios. That way it does not have to have full programming capabilities for 3rd party components. The XFree driver is therefore limited to what the vbios can do while the Windows driver is not. -Matt -Original Message- From: Alex Deucher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 12:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM? well, yeah. My point was that intel should just release a patch to fix the driver (or specs to let us fix it) rather than "fixing" the bios and making us wait for dell to (possibly) update the bios. Alex --- "Mike A. Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Simple. Because the Windows drivers have workarounds built into > them which manually program the chipset to do what the BIOS > should, but is not doing. Why do they just work in Windows? > Because 95% of the desktop market is Windows, and the various > companies involved have a lot of money tied up in making sure > things just work the first time they hit the public eye the > majority of time. As such problems like this are fixed in > Windows-land long before end users ever realize there was a > problem that needed to be fixed. > > In the land of OSS however, we do not have that same status. We > get specifications for hardware long after the fact if ever from > the majority of video hardware companies, and when someone > releases hardware with a broken BIOS that needs software driver > workarounds, someone needs to know what the exact problem is, and > then also have access to the specifications to know how to code > those workarounds, and also have the hardware in question in > order to test it. > > So it is no surprise that what works in Windows is not any form > of indicator of what works in XFree86. They are 2 different > environments, not privy to the same amount of technical > information as each other, and with very different number of > manpower working on each, and with IHV pressure also being quite > different for each. > > > > -- > Mike A. Harris > __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
well, yeah. My point was that intel should just release a patch to fix the driver (or specs to let us fix it) rather than "fixing" the bios and making us wait for dell to (possibly) update the bios. Alex --- "Mike A. Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Simple. Because the Windows drivers have workarounds built into > them which manually program the chipset to do what the BIOS > should, but is not doing. Why do they just work in Windows? > Because 95% of the desktop market is Windows, and the various > companies involved have a lot of money tied up in making sure > things just work the first time they hit the public eye the > majority of time. As such problems like this are fixed in > Windows-land long before end users ever realize there was a > problem that needed to be fixed. > > In the land of OSS however, we do not have that same status. We > get specifications for hardware long after the fact if ever from > the majority of video hardware companies, and when someone > releases hardware with a broken BIOS that needs software driver > workarounds, someone needs to know what the exact problem is, and > then also have access to the specifications to know how to code > those workarounds, and also have the hardware in question in > order to test it. > > So it is no surprise that what works in Windows is not any form > of indicator of what works in XFree86. They are 2 different > environments, not privy to the same amount of technical > information as each other, and with very different number of > manpower working on each, and with IHV pressure also being quite > different for each. > > > > -- > Mike A. Harris > __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Alex Deucher wrote: >Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:55:44 -0700 (PDT) >From: Alex Deucher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Subject: Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM? > >why aren't the windows drivers affected? they must be a way around it >without needing a new bios... The same thing was claimed the last time >around with the 830s and dell never fixed the bios, but someone came up >with a work around. Simple. Because the Windows drivers have workarounds built into them which manually program the chipset to do what the BIOS should, but is not doing. Why do they just work in Windows? Because 95% of the desktop market is Windows, and the various companies involved have a lot of money tied up in making sure things just work the first time they hit the public eye the majority of time. As such problems like this are fixed in Windows-land long before end users ever realize there was a problem that needed to be fixed. In the land of OSS however, we do not have that same status. We get specifications for hardware long after the fact if ever from the majority of video hardware companies, and when someone releases hardware with a broken BIOS that needs software driver workarounds, someone needs to know what the exact problem is, and then also have access to the specifications to know how to code those workarounds, and also have the hardware in question in order to test it. So it is no surprise that what works in Windows is not any form of indicator of what works in XFree86. They are 2 different environments, not privy to the same amount of technical information as each other, and with very different number of manpower working on each, and with IHV pressure also being quite different for each. -- Mike A. Harris ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
why aren't the windows drivers affected? they must be a way around it without needing a new bios... The same thing was claimed the last time around with the 830s and dell never fixed the bios, but someone came up with a work around. Alex --- Hope Merritt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > All, > > The patches will not work do to a limitation in the > Dell system BIOS and Intel VBIOS. Dell locks their > pre-allocated (once called stolen) memory at 1MB and > therefore you will be limited in modes on Linux since > the VBIOS limits its modes to the amount of > pre-allocated memory. Intel has implemented a > workaround, but it would require Dell to implement one > of Intel’s latest VBIOS drops in there systems BIOS > and then update the system BIOS. I would expect any > 855 release of system BIOS from Dell in the next 2 > months to have the VBIOS that allows the Xserver to > report memory it allocated to the VBIOS and the modes > could be adjusted. > > Best regards, > > Hope Merritt, III > Intel Corporation > Software Applications Engineer > Desk: 916-356-0936 > Text: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
Thanks a bunch for the update Hope! In the mean time, I've resorted to using debian as the guest OS in VMWare, works out pretty nicely in fact. (I get to use the 802.11g card, and XP's suspend/hibernate/power management! =) -Oliver Hope Merritt wrote: > > All, > > The patches will not work do to a limitation in the > Dell system BIOS and Intel VBIOS. Dell locks their > pre-allocated (once called stolen) memory at 1MB and > therefore you will be limited in modes on Linux since > the VBIOS limits its modes to the amount of > pre-allocated memory. Intel has implemented a > workaround, but it would require Dell to implement one > of Intel's latest VBIOS drops in there systems BIOS > and then update the system BIOS. I would expect any > 855 release of system BIOS from Dell in the next 2 > months to have the VBIOS that allows the Xserver to > report memory it allocated to the VBIOS and the modes > could be adjusted. > > Best regards, > > Hope Merritt, III > Intel Corporation > Software Applications Engineer > Desk: 916-356-0936 > Text: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ___ > Devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
All, The patches will not work do to a limitation in the Dell system BIOS and Intel VBIOS. Dell locks their pre-allocated (once called stolen) memory at 1MB and therefore you will be limited in modes on Linux since the VBIOS limits its modes to the amount of pre-allocated memory. Intel has implemented a workaround, but it would require Dell to implement one of Intels latest VBIOS drops in there systems BIOS and then update the system BIOS. I would expect any 855 release of system BIOS from Dell in the next 2 months to have the VBIOS that allows the Xserver to report memory it allocated to the VBIOS and the modes could be adjusted. Best regards, Hope Merritt, III Intel Corporation Software Applications Engineer Desk: 916-356-0936 Text: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
> Newer BIOSes are supposed to provide a BIOS call which can be used > to change the size of video RAM the BIOS knows about. > Can you look at the vendor string if the BIOS in you lock file? How do I do this? where is the lock file? > Is this a DELL provided one or one from Intel? I believe that the BIOS is a "custom" Dell one... CPUID in windows says: BIOS Brand: Dell Computer Corporation Version: A00 Date: 04/28/2003 I'm not sure if this is what you meant? > I've talked to Intel about this and they say this should be fixed > with an BIOS update. Hmm... do you think this will lead to Dell updating theirs? Thanks! Oliver ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
Oliver Wong writes: > The fix was unsuccessful coming from one person on the Dell forums who > tried it (I think some others are going to try it though - I posted it > on the Gentoo forums). > It is likely that it is not worrking. > Thanks for your efforts... if another possible workaround surfaces, I'd > be glad to give it a try (or find someone who will =). see below. > > Another idea... if no software/driver workaround is possible and Dell > refuses to update/fix their BIOS, is there any feasible way of modifying > the BIOS independant of Dell? ie. grabbing the image file and finding > where it specifies 832KB (or whatever it sets it to... 896 or > something?) and changing that to around 8MB? I'm not sure if the BIOS > could be interpretted or not though (seen in assembly - or just a bunch > of bits). > > Is this possible?... legal? Definately risky, I know. > No, if you reverse engineer the BIOS you will know what it is looking for to figure out the amount of memory it has available. You can change this then. I assume it is a certain sw flag. We used to know which one it was for the old DELL systems however we don't know which one it is now. Newer BIOSes are supposed to provide a BIOS call which can be used to change the size of video RAM the BIOS knows about. Can you look at the vendor string if the BIOS in you lock file? Is this a DELL provided one or one from Intel? I've talked to Intel about this and they say this should be fixed with an BIOS update. Egbert. ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
The fix was unsuccessful coming from one person on the Dell forums who tried it (I think some others are going to try it though - I posted it on the Gentoo forums). Thanks for your efforts... if another possible workaround surfaces, I'd be glad to give it a try (or find someone who will =). Another idea... if no software/driver workaround is possible and Dell refuses to update/fix their BIOS, is there any feasible way of modifying the BIOS independant of Dell? ie. grabbing the image file and finding where it specifies 832KB (or whatever it sets it to... 896 or something?) and changing that to around 8MB? I'm not sure if the BIOS could be interpretted or not though (seen in assembly - or just a bunch of bits). Is this possible?... legal? Definately risky, I know. -Oliver David Dawes wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 09:35:52AM -0500, Oliver Wong wrote: > >Hello all, > > > >I recently purchased a Dell D400, which suffers from a BIOS only > >allocating <1MB of legacy video memory (stolen memory) to the integrated > >graphics... I believe the Dell 500m and other 855GM laptops suffer from > >this as well. The BIOS also does not provide the appropriate mechanisms > >for the current drivers to change that. > > > >Researching, I found that the Dell C400 and other similar laptops had > >this problem too (with an older chipset), but a work around was written > >(by Abraham vd Merwe?). Does anyone know if a similar work around could > >be applied to the 855GM's? Or is the chipset radically different so that > >that fix will not work? > > That method didn't work on the test hardware I had access to when > adding the 855GM support. The driver does implement a new method > for informing the video BIOS about additional memory allocations, > but I haven't seen any evidence of production hardware implementing > it yet. > > You could try the attached patch, which should enable the old 830M > method for all platforms, and let me know if it works. It's possible > that Dell has the old method implemented in their video BIOS. > > If it doesn't work, you'll need to follow it up with Dell. > > David > -- > David Dawes > Founder/committer/developer The XFree86 Project > www.XFree86.org/~dawes > > > >biosmem.diffName: biosmem.diff >Type: Plain Text (text/plain) ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
David Dawes wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 09:35:52AM -0500, Oliver Wong wrote: > >Hello all, > > > >I recently purchased a Dell D400, which suffers from a BIOS only > >allocating <1MB of legacy video memory (stolen memory) to the integrated > >graphics... I believe the Dell 500m and other 855GM laptops suffer from > >this as well. The BIOS also does not provide the appropriate mechanisms > >for the current drivers to change that. > > > >Researching, I found that the Dell C400 and other similar laptops had > >this problem too (with an older chipset), but a work around was written > >(by Abraham vd Merwe?). Does anyone know if a similar work around could > >be applied to the 855GM's? Or is the chipset radically different so that > >that fix will not work? > > That method didn't work on the test hardware I had access to when > adding the 855GM support. The driver does implement a new method > for informing the video BIOS about additional memory allocations, > but I haven't seen any evidence of production hardware implementing > it yet. > > You could try the attached patch, which should enable the old 830M > method for all platforms, and let me know if it works. It's possible > that Dell has the old method implemented in their video BIOS. > > If it doesn't work, you'll need to follow it up with Dell. Alright, thanks David. I haven't gotten my D400 in yet, but it should be arriving soon (expected delivery is tomorrow). Does anyone else have a D400 out there that could give this a try? Since I won't even have a linux distro on mine for a little while. -Oliver > > David > -- > David Dawes > Founder/committer/developer The XFree86 Project > www.XFree86.org/~dawes > > > >biosmem.diffName: biosmem.diff >Type: Plain Text (text/plain) ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 09:35:52AM -0500, Oliver Wong wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>I recently purchased a Dell D400, which suffers from a BIOS only
>allocating <1MB of legacy video memory (stolen memory) to the integrated
>graphics... I believe the Dell 500m and other 855GM laptops suffer from
>this as well. The BIOS also does not provide the appropriate mechanisms
>for the current drivers to change that.
>
>Researching, I found that the Dell C400 and other similar laptops had
>this problem too (with an older chipset), but a work around was written
>(by Abraham vd Merwe?). Does anyone know if a similar work around could
>be applied to the 855GM's? Or is the chipset radically different so that
>that fix will not work?
That method didn't work on the test hardware I had access to when
adding the 855GM support. The driver does implement a new method
for informing the video BIOS about additional memory allocations,
but I haven't seen any evidence of production hardware implementing
it yet.
You could try the attached patch, which should enable the old 830M
method for all platforms, and let me know if it works. It's possible
that Dell has the old method implemented in their video BIOS.
If it doesn't work, you'll need to follow it up with Dell.
David
--
David Dawes
Founder/committer/developer The XFree86 Project
www.XFree86.org/~dawes
Index: i830_driver.c
===
RCS file: /home/x-cvs/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/drivers/i810/i830_driver.c,v
retrieving revision 1.27
diff -u -r1.27 i830_driver.c
--- i830_driver.c 14 Feb 2003 17:12:42 - 1.27
+++ i830_driver.c 17 Jun 2003 20:11:55 -
@@ -1039,7 +1039,7 @@
return TRUE;
#endif
- if (IS_I830(pI830) || IS_845G(pI830)) {
+ if (1 || IS_I830(pI830) || IS_845G(pI830)) {
pI830->useSWF1 = TRUE;
pI830->saveSWF1 = INREG(SWF1) & 0x0f;
@@ -1084,7 +1084,7 @@
}
#endif
- if ((IS_I830(pI830) || IS_845G(pI830)) && pI830->useSWF1) {
+ if ((1 || IS_I830(pI830) || IS_845G(pI830)) && pI830->useSWF1) {
swf1 = INREG(SWF1);
swf1 &= ~0x0f;
swf1 |= (pI830->saveSWF1 & 0x0f);
@@ -,7 +,7 @@
}
#endif
- if ((IS_I830(pI830) || IS_845G(pI830)) && pI830->useSWF1) {
+ if ((1 || IS_I830(pI830) || IS_845G(pI830)) && pI830->useSWF1) {
CARD32 newSWF1;
/* Need MMIO access here. */
Re: Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
> "OW" == Oliver Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: OW> Researching, I found that the Dell C400 and other similar laptops OW> had this problem too (with an older chipset), but a work around OW> was written (by Abraham vd Merwe?). The need for any kind of hack or workaround on a C400 and other i830 and i845 based machines was eliminated quite a while ago. XFree86 4.3.0 certainly doesn't need any hacks to work, at least with recent-enough Linux kernels which have AGP support for the chipset. (The various BSDs should probably have support as well.) Graphics memory is dynamically allocated via AGP. No idea about the D400; I just got one in, but it's running windows and I have no time to play with it before I have to give it to its owner. - J< ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Dell C400 fix applied to 855GM?
Hello all, I recently purchased a Dell D400, which suffers from a BIOS only allocating <1MB of legacy video memory (stolen memory) to the integrated graphics... I believe the Dell 500m and other 855GM laptops suffer from this as well. The BIOS also does not provide the appropriate mechanisms for the current drivers to change that. Researching, I found that the Dell C400 and other similar laptops had this problem too (with an older chipset), but a work around was written (by Abraham vd Merwe?). Does anyone know if a similar work around could be applied to the 855GM's? Or is the chipset radically different so that that fix will not work? More info on the C400 is here: http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~chak/linux/c400.html Thanks! -Oliver Wong ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
