Re: [DDN] ICANN, the linguistic digital divide IDN
Hello Don, Thank you VERY MUCH for bringing this article to DDN. I have been argueing about language divide is more damaging than digital divide, for the past 5 years or more, at many online forums. Most time my arguement seems to fall on deaf ears since the audiences are mostly English speakers only. With this article, I feel that finally my little voice is being heard by a much wider audience. And professionally. Setting up their own domain names (China, S. Korea, Japan, Israel etc.) is not really a smart move. These countries are building their own digital getto. The world should not be happy either to think it is OK if these countries build their own getto. Think Knowledge Sharing! [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don Osborn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The recent news that the US government has in principle ceded control of ICANN http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/27/ntia_icann_meeting/ is related to an issue that seems to get less coverage - that of Internationalized Domain Names (IDN) and the interest behind that in a more multilingual internet. Language of course is one of the factors of the digital divide and it has been particularly problematic in the case of diverse scripts (and, although it is often overlooked in discussing writing systems and ICT, even Latin scripts with extra letters and diacritics beyond ASCII ANSI). The Guardian has an interesting article exploring this issue in the context of internet governance at http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1830481,00.html (excerpts below). I've tended to see IDN as a subset of the larger issues of content, but in a way, resloving the technical issues involved in multilingual domain names contributes not only to making the web more welcoming to more people and peoples, but also to facilitating the processing of more localized content in languages that are not yet well represented on the web. Sort of a wedge issue, in other words, for the multilingual internet. Hopefully the new developments with regard to ICANN will help in this process. Don Osborn Bisharat.net PanAfrican Localisation Project Despite everything you may have heard, the global resource we all know as the internet is not global at all. Since you are reading this article in English you probably won't have noticed, but if your first language was Chinese, Arabic, Hindi or Tamil, you would know very different. At most websites you visit you will be scrabbling to find a link to a translated version in your language, seemingly hidden amid tracts of baffling text. Even getting to a website in the first place requires that you master the western alphabet - have you ever tried to type .com in Chinese letters? . . . Icann was first approached in the year it was created - 1998 - with the aim of introducing internationalised domain names into its system. But it has yet to introduce a single one. Many members of the global internet community have cried foul at the endless delays from a company based in the least linguistically diverse area of the world (the US has speakers of 170 different languages, compared to 364 in Europe and 2,390 in Africa). The Guardian, 27 July 2006, Divided by a Common Language http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1830481,00.html ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] $100 laptop includes WiFi
Well, the reason I thought it is interesting for the group is, as you have mentioned (we discussed till death) the interests then were so much on the 100$ LapTop and nothing (seems) much on the network etc. Now we even see the team that supports MIT has ' volunteered' to support this project. So the team is growing, assuming budget becomes elastic ... perhaps it is nothing new?? OR Perhaps food for thoughts for anyone who is interested in starting any project? Or support the idea of another one of this high-flyer projects? Let's just assume my intention is making sure most of us do not forget about this white elephant? Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dave A. Chakrabarti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The ability to mesh network was included in this laptop's specs from the beginning, if I remember correctly. We've discussed this topic to death...I really don't see anything very new in Negropointe's work so far. I'll be more inclined to think well of the project if it's implemented in a suitable fashion...with decent levels of support (hardware, software, and networking), wireless internet infrastructure, internet backhaul equipment and upstream bandwidth procurement at affordable costs (and paid by whom?), initiatives to train and support teachers and content creators in developing nations, etc. Otherwise, I don't really see the point. Haven't generations of experiences proven that throwing technology at a problem accomplishes nothing? This project seems to allocate an undue amount of funding towards technology, with little or no thought for all of the other factors that create a successful community technology movement. Dave. --- Dave A. Chakrabarti Projects Coordinator CTCNet Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] (708) 919 1026 --- Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote: Here is an followed-up article on the $100 laptop for every child. I found it on the OpenSpectrum.info website. http://www.volweb.cz/horvitz/os-info/news-feb06-017.html The interesting part of the news, for me, is the addition of WiFi, and this sentence below. Some of Negroponte's MIT associates are also following him to his OLPC non-profit to assist, which speaks even more highly of this highly-regarded initiative. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] $100 laptop includes WiFi
Hello Taran, That is what makes this whole thing so interesting for me. Normally we would talk about the infrastructure first ... I am just being sarcastic of course. As I recalled countries such as Brazil, China and Nigeria (I could be wrong about the name of the countries) already put in order for 100millions laptop. Delivery time as I understand is sometime before the end of this year. Perhaps the chicken would come before the eggs? Taran Rampersad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's all a very good idea if there is an infrastructure for the wireless to connect to. The money for those laptops could be spent on infrastructure so that there is actually something to connect to, instead of something that will be outdated in one evolution of Moore's Law... 18 months. Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote: Here is an followed-up article on the $100 laptop for every child. I found it on the OpenSpectrum.info website. http://www.volweb.cz/horvitz/os-info/news-feb06-017.html The interesting part of the news, for me, is the addition of WiFi, and this sentence below. Some of Negroponte's MIT associates are also following him to his OLPC non-profit to assist, which speaks even more highly of this highly-regarded initiative. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad and Tobago [EMAIL PROTECTED] Looking for contracts/work! http://www.knowprose.com/node/9786 New!: http://www.OpenDepth.com http://www.knowprose.com http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ Criticize by creating. Michelangelo ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] bogus new york times article
Hello Andy, How about you write one for New York Time as a guest writer? Perhaps then the public would get a better picture of digital divide? Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andy Carvin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Phil, My blog post earlier today is a response to some of the issues raised in the article. I was surprised by the tone myself; when I talked to the author about a month ago, I got the impression he'd be writing it somewhat differently. http://www.andycarvin.com/archives/2006/03/race_and_the_digital.html = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] my digital divide article in School Library Journal
Hello Andy, We have to keep politicians and others on their toes on this topic. Here is an article written by Ulises A. Mejias I would like to share with the group. Ulises is an Ed.D student at Teachers College, Colombia University. He also teaches a graduate course on Social software. Do take your time and browse through his website. You might find many articles that are thought provoking just like I did and still do. In Defense of the Digital Divide as Paralogy (v 1.0) by Ulises A. Mejias Introduction: Why Won't Lyotard Go Away? http://ideant.typepad.com/ideant/2006/02/in_defense_of_t.html#comments [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here's a link to the full text of the article in case you're interested in reading it: http://www.schoollibraryjournal.com/article/CA6312460.html -andy = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
[DDN] Change from --- $159 Linspire computer --- to mobile computing
Hello Taran, Mobile computing. You raised some interesting issues that I am no longer that familiar. One of my confusion with mobile computing is that I see two situations: 1) using the mobile phone as a computer, 2) using the mobile network for computer. Item 1 is the situation that I ruled out for myself (eye sights and big fingers) but can item 2 works? Technically speaking can one uses the mobile network for computer? I think the standards are different. Am I right? [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Looking for resources in Cantonese
Hello Stephen, As far as I know, when it comes to written form, we all use Mandarin/Chinese. Although there is such thing as 'written Cantonese' but there are only very few characters that are peculiar to Cantonese speakers. And to a certain extent the sentence constructions can be slightly different from Mandarin. Or other Chinese dialtects. Therefore basically it dosen't matter if one is speaking Cantonese, Mandarin or Shanghainese, for example, the 'written form' are the same. Only the way we pronouce the words are different. And if you think it is crazy among the Chinese, actually you can show the Chinese characters to the Korean or Japanese, they would understand what they mean but again will prounce in their own tongue (that is if the Japanese and Korean you encoutered do know how to read Chinese or Kanji). Sorry for the long explaination. But perhaps what you are looking for is Mandarin/Chinese materials? Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] [Multilingualism in Cyberspace] Perhaps more complex than that
Hello Dave, You post is VERY long indeed. I will try to have a short post, and perhaps later if there are more comments from others. Perhaps you might want to think why you have English as your first langauge now, and so am I. We both grew up in countries that once belong to the British Empire. In a way, if I am correct so is Cananda, Australia, NZ and many countries in the African continent etc. etc. etc. (as I am not too sure about the US, so I will let someone tell me ...I know for sure historically, you escape having to learn Dutch as first language!! So what if you speak English, come to Holland and I will assure you you can surve quite well with English, but you would be quite lost and many other things. Like me). So, what shall we do with people that was once the colonies of Spaiin, Portugal, France, Belgium, the Netheralnds to name a few? OR those that were too uninteresting to be a colony for any one of the OLD countries? According to your theory, does that mean ALMOST all of South American should drop their own langauge and learn English instead? Or the Chinese with 1.6 billiongs citizen should ignore their own language? What about Indonesia combined with Malaysia? or the German which has more millions of inhabitans than NL (only 16 millions therefore anyone can bully them into dropping their own langauge and stick to English). How about the French? They too have many former colonies in the African continent, Vietnam, Haiti, even a tiny portion of Cananda??? I don't think the French or the German are going to agree with you. German is spoken in more than just Germany. Now I just remember, Italy is another big country! And Portugal would join hand with Brazil, and Macao (tiny but ..) India is a unique case, perhaps, because Indians NEVER agreed to have one of their own language to represent thier country, instead they are using English as their official languae. You cannot say that about China. China has united their language to Mandarin since, I don't know, many centuries ago. Therefore, is it right to ask them to drop their own official/native language? Take the case of Indonesia, the country has a very lopsided rich vs. poor. Therefore the rich would not have problem with using English as defacto IT language since most of them would have had the chance of studying in the US, Australia, Canada etc. They have money. AND if they cannot speak the langauge, they can always hire someone to translate for them. I don't really know the percentage of rich vs. poor in that country. But I am quite sure it is something around the region of 10% vs 90% poor. So, what are we going to do with the poor? Ask all of them to learn another language? Forget about if it technically doable, is it ethically correct? After all we are talking about solving digital divide to leap-frog the poor. Why then the burden should be on the poor? OK. I am going to stop here. I will see if anyone would send in their arguement about the economic side etc. etc. Do not forget as well, Indonesia is one of the countries that are going to order 100 millions of the 100$ lap-top. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Multilingualism in Cyberspace
Hello Nazrul, Language is a real issue especially since WSIS the promotion of the 100USD lap-top. I have always questioned the notion of English as the defacto internet language. For countries/people who are not knowledgeable in this langauge, with the digital content mostly in English, that would mean the burden is AGAIN on those poorer/digital hungry countries/people. So how good it is to give them a lap-top while they cannot read what is there? I have spoke out about language divide for the past 3,4 years. But, small voice generates no punch. After all people who is on this list precisely because they know English, if not English is their native language. They don't feel the pain of those who are locked out because they lack the language ability. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] More info on the MIT/Quanta laptop partnership
With dedication to technological innovation and education, Chairman Barry Lam launched a new US $200 million RD center, Quanta RD Complex (QRDC), in Taiwan. The facility, which opened in Q3 of 2005, has 2.2 million square feet of floor space, and the capacity to house up to 7,000 engineers. So employment goes to WHAT world? Developed, developing or to be developed? WSIS announcement of the One Computer per child was on November 18 (am I right?). Today is 14 December. And with less than 30 days ... the Cambridge, Massachusetts-The One Laptop per Child NGO is able to send out invitations, accept bids, evaluates, and completed selection of the vendor. All done in less than 30 days!! How astonishingly SPEEDY!! Would anyone spend 200 million USD on a RD facility without knowing before hand he is going to win a contract to manufacture millions of lap-top that cost 100 USD each? What a great way of job creations for the rich developed worlds. IF the intention of UN and others is to help developing world, why not India? Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Executive Director [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quanta has a good name in white book and OEM notebooks and I am sending this from one I built myself. Mike Michael F. Pitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Carvin Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 1:54 PM To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group Subject: [DDN] More info on the MIT/Quanta laptop partnership Here's the official press release from Negroponte's One Laptop Per Child initiative regarding the manufacturing partnership with Taiwan's Quanta. -andy Quanta Computer Inc. to Manufacture $100 Laptop December 13, 2005-Cambridge, Massachusetts-The One Laptop per Child (OLPC) board of directors today announced that Quanta Computer Inc. of Taiwan was chosen as the original design manufacturer (ODM) for the $100 laptop project. The decision was made after the board reviewed bids from several possible manufacturing companies. In announcing the selection of Quanta, OLPC Chairman Nicholas Negroponte said, Any previous doubt that a very-low-cost laptop could be made for education in the developing world has just gone away. Quanta has agreed to devote significant engineering resources from the Quanta Research Institute (QRI) in Q1 and Q2, 2006, with a target of bringing the product to market in Q4. The launch of 5-15 million units will be both in large-scale pilot projects in seven culturally diverse countries (China, India, Brazil, Argentina, Egypt, Nigeria, and Thailand), with one million units in each of these countries, and an additional modest allocation of machines to seed developer communities in a number of other selected countries. A commercial version of the machine will be explored in parallel. Quanta would like to contribute its industry-leading laptop technologies to the future success of the project, in hope of affording children worldwide with opportunities not only to close the 'digital divide,' but also to bridge the 'knowledge divide.' This project signifies a new stage and scale for the laptop industry by including those children never before considered to be laptop users, said Quanta founder and chairman, Barry Lam. One Laptop per Child (OLPC) is a Delaware-based, non-profit organization created by Nicholas Negroponte and other faculty members from the MIT Media Lab to design, manufacture, and distribute laptops that are sufficiently inexpensive to provide every child in the world access to knowledge and modern forms of education. The laptops will be sold to governments and issued to children by schools on a basis of one laptop per child. These machines will be rugged, Linux-based, and so energy efficient that hand-cranking alone can generate sufficient power for operation. Mesh networking will give many machines Internet access from one connection. The pricing goal will start near $100 and then steadily decrease. The corporate members are Advanced Micro Devices (AMD), Brightstar, Google, News Corporation, Nortel, and Red Hat. Quanta Computer Inc. was founded in 1988 in Taiwan. With over US $10 billion in sales, the company is a leading provider of technology products and solutions to Fortune 500 companies, including Dell, HP, and IBM. Quanta has the distinction of being the world's largest manufacturer of laptop PCs. The company also provides a full array of mobile phones, LCD TVs, and servers and storage products. With dedication to technological innovation and education, Chairman Barry Lam launched a new US $200 million RD center, Quanta RD Complex (QRDC), in Taiwan. The facility, which opened in Q3 of 2005, has 2.2 million square feet of floor space, and the capacity to house up to 7,000 engineers. For more information about Quanta, visit http://www.quantatw.com To learn about the $100 Laptop, visit http://laptop.media.mit.edu --
RE: [DDN] Intel: Poor Want 'Real' Computers (fwd)
Hello Paul, What you have described is what I have been saying. Perhaps not as directly and as powerful as you just did. Someone wrote about innovation. And that set me thinking this afternoon. Innovation -- big or small, any shapes and sizes, any flavours -- will only materialize at the right time, right place, right people, right maturity, right knowledge etc. We cannot force or innovate UNLESS all the ingredients are present. We were born different and shape by different environments. Looking at myself, even though I think I am technically quite sound, I only dare to claim as a decent ICT user. I am quite hopeless in many things. I was not willing to own a PC until just a few months before I was laid-off. Reason is very simple, I was afraid (still am) of supporting myself with a PC. THEREFORE, the people that WE so decided to give them computer lessons, give them free computers ... are they ready to receive the knowledge that WE THINK they should have?? I have an elderly friend actually is afraid of the mouse because he has problem to control the movement and yet this same person bought the first kind of PC that came to the market in 1982 (??). He is a mechanical engineer, mathematician and accountant. If we give him an ICT skills test he would qualify without any problem. YET ... We can encourage people to want knowledge, but we cannot force them. We spent so much time argueing about technologies. I am sure many would agree with me, technology is not the problem. People is. And I mean both the supply and demand kinds of 'people'. Just simple marketing logic. If you want to sell your ideas/products, you need to know your consumers. Do we? Do we take time to understand why they 'run' away? Do we take time to understand their FEARS? their frustrations? their 'real wants'? One of the major problem is, we tend to simplify things and provide a ONE-size-fit-all solution. We think what works in Latin America will work in Asia. ... Just some of my thoughts. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Paul Mondesire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Yet when investment arrives and when agencies offer FREE training on FREE computers these same people disappear into the mist because they have no excuse left, or realize that their bluff has been called and the reality is that they never really WANTED to use the facility, but it was something to bang a drum over! The truth of this statement is really profound. I was involved in a program a few years ago and there were brand new i-Macs with free Internet access available for families with a 6-hour course (over 2 weekends with lunch) as the only prerequisite. Only 20% of the machines went out in the first 6 months. This was sad and frustrating for many of us but we came to understand that the computer meant nothing to them as they could not perceive the value of the technology in their lives. Their children's MAYBE, not not their own. The fact is there has to be a practical use for a given technology otherwise it is a handy but bulky door stop for too many folks. There are those who identify so closely with the culture of victimhood that they will not take steps to help themselves no matter how the support is offered or who seeks to share it. The up side of this is there is ALWAYS someone willing to step up to the plate to accept that offer of assistance. A hand up, NOT a hand out!. Paul Mondesire [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Fwd: [GKD] Microsoft Donations: Roses with Thorns?
Moral of the story: Is there any difference between Microsoft vs the famous 100$ lap-top? One should ask the same question on that 100 million lap-top order: who gets to manufacture them? who gets pay at the MIT lab, where are the researchers and technical experts located?? Who's citizen actually benefit from all these? There are more stories of 'strings' . But if I do list them, I am sure someone would tell me they do not belong to this discussions ... Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Michael Maranda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is an unfortunate story. But it raises a general question of how we relate to technology and to funders and donors who are in our sector. We want resources to do what we think is needed in our commnities or in policy work related to technology. We need the courage to accept resources that fit our colleective values. Even if a particular gift comes to one of us without such strings attached, what does it say when we accept resources from entities that practice their philanthropy in this manner? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kris Dev Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 10:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [DDN] Fwd: [GKD] Microsoft Donations: Roses with Thorns? -- Forwarded message -- From: Augusta Molnar [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Dec 8, 2005 6:26 AM Subject: [GKD] Microsoft Donations: Roses with Thorns? To: gkd@milhouse.edc.org Dear GKD Members, I am writing from Oaxaca, Mexico where I am visiting communities in the highlands. They have been beneficiaries of a very cool project financed in part by the Gates foundation to install a wireless connection and a set of computers for the schools. We are working on a network in the Latin America region for communities for which we use by preference FireFox as our browser. We suggested they try this browser as Explorer was causing problems, and discovered to our surprise that the Gates foundation gift comes with tags. The computer network does not allow any of the users of the donated computers to install any software not owned by Microsoft, even any open source software. The network within which the computers reside will not allow any individual computers to download software to install, ostensibly to prevent viruses and incompatible software from jeopardizing the Microsoft system. These are computers installed for educational purposes in a number of telecenters in the public libraries in Mexico for all the young students preparing for a global world. These computers are therefore their only affordable access to the Internet and to learning about computers and programs. A significant number of them will leave this town to work at least part of their life elsewhere in Mexico or in the U.S. Their work and career opportunities will depend upon their skills and preparedness. I am reminded of my youth, working in the vicinity of USAID programs which only purchased American-made cars shipped to remote corners of Asia for irrigation projects, etc., because the tied money only allowed US bids. (Ever try to blow up a pneumatic truck tire with a bicycle pump in a small town in Asia? ) Is this standard Gates foundation policies?? Is this type of tag allowed?? Interested to hear from those of you who are more knowledgeable on this point. Augusta Molnar Director, Community and Markets Program Forest Trends 1050 Potomac Street NW Washington, D.C. 20007 Phone: 202 298-3006 Fax: 202 298-3014 www.forest-trends.org ***GKD is solely supported by EDC, a Non-Profit Organization*** To post a message, send it to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message to: . In the 1st line of the message type: subscribe gkd OR type: unsubscribe gkd Archives of previous GKD messages can be found at: ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] What Size For Kids (formerly the $100 laptop debate)
Hello Tom, Taran, Richard Everytime I wanted to stop posting ... If you mean lack of free content provision perhaps: http://www.gutenberg.or Tom: Actually they were written by Taran... no matter. I will give one thought of my own now that you gave 2 examples of where one can find contents... both English sites. Your suggest lead me to the thought of: are we all looking at this world is going to be on giant MONOlingual (English) place? How about French, Hindi, Swahili, Korean, Mandarin, Bahasa Malaysia/Indonesia ... not to mention another 100 or so languages of this world !! ... I better not start another arguement about bringing the burden of learning English (THE divide, by the way, created by the ICT world).. :-) .. Taran, Richard, Re: Pushing technology ... I have written before: as long as we are using first world solution solving 3rd world problems, we will never get out of this mode. Give them the tools they need, not the tools WE THINK they should have. Stoop DOWN to their level... One can see better together with them Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] $100 Laptop
Hello Dave, Actually, it doesn't...it's a speculation on the direction of communications technology, and on what the next milestones might be. We can call it 'speculation' or we can call it 'foresight'. But one thing we should look it is the practicality of how much 'power/memory' a person really need? Especially if we are talking about CHILD? I can understand about all the arguement about upskilling of technologies etc., and that infact is even more important one should think about upgrades etc. What is easier to deal with ... distributed model or centralized model? especially the kind of audiences and environment we are looking at AT PRESENT (overtime situation would change of course). Telecenters and using TV as access tool -- My question has always been: why do we need a PC? Most of the answers I would receive these days is: get to the internet. In that case, then we are looking at a tool to access internet. NOT a lap-top per se. Any tool. A way to get to information. In that case, one should provide a solution that is as holistic as possible. A solution that not only provide access to the internet, but also able to train the end-users, support the end-users etc. Let's envision their environment. NOT our environment. Think what a child would need. NOT the needs of well educated, and perhaps with good income adults. Except for a sigle posting, I wish there are more participants from the field. Then we would be able to hear from the horses' mouths. (not intended as insult!) Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] $100 Laptop
Below is an interesting blog posting by Dave Pollard of How to Save the World. It supports the discussions/suggestions why telecenters or using television as access tool to internet make much better sense. http://blogs.salon.com/0002007/ Sharing Your Brain: Making Your Hard Drive into a Wiki Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] $100 laptop and seeds
Hello Mark, You quoted two seperate postings of mine. I will just picked one of them to illustrate my point. Here is one of them: ... reading lots of messages about how such-and-such children in such-and-such African country do not even have desks or pencils. This documentary film, made by Belgium TV net, was aired in Europe few months ago. Of course since it is Belgium Tv, and it is not main stream BBC World or CNN, therefore this documentary film might never reach the audience in the US. I just want to make it clear I do not write because it is sensational. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] $100 laptop and seeds
Patricia Perkins -- Terry King's analogy about seeds Telecenters is not just the idea of sow seeds, but actually is practical way of looking at what IS possible in certain environment. I would think it is more appropriate to think of telecenters as as 'bed' for germinations? Where cares and supports are readily available? Giving away a lap-top to every child in this world without the basic elements to support them, is just like THROWing seeds out randomly and PRAY there will be rain, and there will not be hungry birds nearby ... ??? Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] $100 laptop
Hello Ken, The bottom line is that people value most the things that cost them most I cannot agree more! Recently I VOLUNTERED and set up an online workshop for a group of teachers in China. Out of the 7 agreed to beta test the program, ONLY 2 made any effort to register, AND not a single one did any postings as required for the class. I am sure if they had to pay for the training, they would have been there. Actually the price tag is what 'the seller' try to impress the world. Personally I am not looking at price-tag, but how useful is giving something to someone that might be completely useless because of issues such as infrastructures, training , tech support etc. etc. etc. Most of all how many really need a full-features lap-top? A telecenter such as what you/HP provides makes a lot more sense. Remember 'the water cooler'? The real business world try to bring people together to share knowledge, and here we are giving each child a lap-top and deprive them the opportunities to work together. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Laptop for $100
Hello Arun, Much you have written were great and inline with my thoughts. but What I am most fear is these lines: We should wait till mid-2007, when hopefully a large number of children would have actually used the laptop, before we know if it is really as good as it is expected to be BY they 100 millions UDS been spent ... and then we should do an assessment? IF so much money has been spent, even if it is disaster, nobody would dare to say it especially those high officials who signed the order (of 100millions lap-tops) !! The discussions should go on and we should make as much noise as possible before a POSSIBLE great big spending goes down the wrong chute! Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Re: $100 laptop
Apology for not able to write perfect and coherentEnglish. Sorry, but here is what I wrote again: NO ... 1st world tools can solve 3rd world problems ... IF and ONLY they apply appropriately. ... Sending a Yale professor to teach first year primary school English would not be the right tool I am sure?? Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark Warschauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: NO ... 1st world tools can solve 3rd world problems ... Cindy I guess that rules out your idea of using TVs! :-) mark ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Re: $100 laptop
Hello Dave, Incidentally, the technology to use a TV for two-way communication has been around for years...no MIT development needed PRECISELY !! It is available for the longest time (I just thought I play safe!) so why reinventing the wheel? Why spend money on another 'screen' where there might be already one in the home of the child? If not, I am sure is cheaper to provide a monitor than to provide a lap-top? Yes. I can see the argument about these days multimedia via broadband mean using the lap-top as TV!! but then is that what the lap-top is for ... As for if there is TV in their homes? WELL, more readily then they would go out and buy a computer!! You would be surprised. I am orginally from a 3rd world. And by the way, as has been discussed before on DDN before, one 3rd world country is not the same as the next one. Therefore one should not think a $100 lap-top is beneficial for ALL the children in this world. NO ... 1st world tools can solve 3rd world problems ... IF and ONLY they apply at the appropriately. I am sure the organization you mentioned is of a different level and can fit in with what you offered? The $100 lap-top is for children. Your organization perhaps call for different skills and tools? Sending a Yale professor to teach first year primary school would not be the right tool I am sure?? Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Re: $100 laptop
Reading some of the discussions on this list, somehow they give me the impression some of the members on this list is still using FIRST world tools to solve 3rd world problems. (Sorry to use the terms first and 3rd worlds). Not that long ago I wrote about children in some African countries do not even have paper to write on. They do not have money to buy pencil and exercise books. They use twig to trace and practice writing on the chair/sandy ground they are sitting on. They have no chairs nor tables, and if their parents do not have money to buy them a uniform they are not even allow to attend class. So what would you do? Buy them a uniform so that they can at least attend the class? Help them to furnish their classroom with chairs and desks so that they can have something to sit on? OR would you give these same children with the $100 lap-top with FLASH animations? Do you think this same child would know how to use Google to search for information? Furthermore, $100 might be dirt cheap in our world. The same $100 is a lot of money in thier world. What would you want to provide them first with? In my opinion, if anyone wishes to, they can turn the TV termnal into a very useful interactive tool. IF one can use TV monitor to play games, why can it not use the same TV monitor and turn it into a computer screen? What is the different between TV and PC? TV is sending, computer is both send and receive. I am sure some smart person from MIT or the like, IF THEY REALLY WANT TO, can come up with a device. It would also make much more sense to create telecenters. Giving each child a lap-top, you are looking at a ' distributed model' that is composed of millions and millions of lap-tops. How are you going to service them? or train the users? It would make much more sense to create 'centralized model/telecenters' and have the users come to the center to use the facilities. Not only it is easier to control and manage, one can also start creating job for local populations to man the telecenters. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] $100 laptop
Hello Amy, My students can not take home the computers. They rush to get here after-school and often stay until it is dark. They walk in the rain, snow, and all types of weather, make their families wait to have dinner, and BEG for more time to use the computers. We have family time when parents and siblings come in and use the computers at the end of class. Competition to get into my program is fierce and the waiting list is long. We do go beyond giving access by training the students to be certified professionals, but it is the access the computer that gets them here. If I could send computers home, I could cut class time in half and give twice as many students the opportunity I can see the reason you wish to have a PC for each child in your programme. BUT don't you think there are benefits from the fact that these same children have to fight for their computer times? And the fact that their parents and siblings would be there to share time with them? Would you not agree, because they have to fight to have the use of the comptuers, they are better managing and organizing their lives/time? Using internet to research work dosen't mean it is better. It only means one can reach more information. It still depends on the person to read and UNDERSTAND and DIGEST the information found. AND if the teacher thinks handing in a hand-written homework is not good enough, but has to be typed, then I think it is the short-sightedness of the teachers and NOT because a hand-written work is any less productive then one that is typed. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] $100 Lap-top for every child in this world !!!
So, how many millions of children do we have in this world? And how many of them in countries that PERHAPS do not have technical support to service these $100 laptop? I have asked these questions before : who is going to pay for repairs? Who is going to repair? Will they have tech support in even small villages so that parents of these kids would not have to cycle or walk miles to get the lap-top reparis? How about who is going to teach them how to use it? How to type perhaps? I for one is going to stop giving my hard earned money to non-profit organizations unless they can prove to me they have answers for these very down-to-earth questions from me. I am not going to spend my meager wages supporting MIT or anyone that is looking at, perhaps UN, to buy 100 millions PC from them. No way. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] = [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] the refurbished computers timeline
Hello Phil, You brought out great concepts we should support. To me the point is not it will cost ONLY $99 per PC. It is more important we should not throw things away where there are still so much life in a product. It all depends on WHY we need a PC. If it is just to send emails, search the net, one does not need to have a 'loaded' PC to begin with. How many of us really need gigabits of storage space? I am a strong believer in recycling. AND an even stronger believer of NOT to dispose of things unless is necessary. Therefore, perhaps we should teach people not to throw away PC that they can still use to start with?? Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop
Hello Pamela, Taran, I took a quick look on the link on Solo, coupled with solar wireless (one of Taran's recent posts), I see other possibilities not limited to Nigeria/Africa or developing world only. It is an interesting system. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop
Hello John, I call it the Tyranny of the Instant. And it seems to be getting worse. This can be a topic on its own. I think many of the DDN issues are more human and social. Such as this one. It might have moved away from the original subject topic, but ... Personally I think most people took the 'instant' motto too far. With that we gradually changing/destroying our private and social life. And sometime political. Cell phones and instant messages are not the only problem, we have CNN, BBC world news and others that bring in good or bad news from around the world instantly. I think we become 'frangmented' because we are not 'allow' the time and the space to think, to plan, to research more before taking action. We are being pushed to give 'on the spot' decisions, and then have to swallow the blame if something goes wrong. I am sure many of us have seen enough of the recent Katrina so called unfolding events. On certain issues I like the exposures, but on others I don't think it is really fair... In the UK and I think also in NL, cell phone are banned on some train carriages. Passengers just want to have some peace and quiet moments while travelling. When I used to teach there was a rule we all observed, both instructors and trainees, cell phones and pages off or on vibration. Most trainees (professionals) also had the courtesy to inform the instructor before hand they might step out for urgent calls. I am quite amazed to see laptops in the classroom these days. I think there is a place for everything. I can imagine some would argue about taking notes, but how about the noise from machines and typing that might be annoying to others? What about curtesy to the lecturers or speakers? Why are we accepting it? It is becasue we are afraid others would call us old fashion? Or do we really need to be so Instant? Cindy Hoong [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop
I for one absolutely agreed. Less than a year after I bought my Palm pilot, I stopped using it. The bother of constantly having to pull out my reading glasses before I could do anything ... Instead I regularly print a copy of my Yahoo address book and the agenda... As for SMS ... for the same reason I seldom use it, and I am not too please if someone send me one! For the young, and some professionals, cell phone and WIFI are fashionable and/or on the go. But is it a MUST? I wonder. Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop
Many people are already creating cheap computing for the masses, aside from the Simputer, and they have things that are actually *working*, and don't get as much media spin as Negroponte. My question is: what is stopping DDN promoting products such as Simputer? These companies are generally too small, too short of cash to spend on marketing. What is stopping DDN membership to promote Simputer (or alike) to NGOs that can benefit from such products? I see a win-win situation. Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Virtual conferences
John and All, In 1990, about 14 years ago, I was researching for a paper on video-conferencing. To my surprised, the problem why video-conferencing was not popular, then, had nothing to do with the technology, nor the services provided by the phone companies etc. (It was still rather expensive then and the technologies were not really that great, but compared to paying for hotels, flights etc. for participants naturally the savings using video-conferencing won hands-down). Some of the reasons were: it is much more fun to meet face-to-face, in many cases travelling off-site is considered perk for many people, meeting face-to-face network better etc. etc. Since then, I have been observing and pondering over this issue all these years and of course from video-conferencing my interest shifted to internet and elearning. Here are some of my own reasonings. Aside from perk for participants, perhaps we should also look at businesses such as hotels, air-lines, car-rentals, catering, event organizers etc. These businesses depend and encourage people to travel. If we all go virtual, it is not just the matter of these businesses are losing money, but we are also looking at people losing jobs. And most of the employees of this business sector are low-skills. Which means if they lose thier job it is so much harder for them to find another job because they might be 'skill-out' from the faster and faster moving world that demand higher and higher digital skills. Therefore it is a real balancing act (I sure hope governments are paying attention and looking into all these factors). The problem with our group (DDN) is, most of us are highly educated, have good jobs, good income, well equipped or provided with all the digital gadgets that enabled us to be 'virtual'. But are we the minority or the majority? As Siobhan just posted: Stephens estimates that 70 percent of Navajo Nation residents are still without phone service, down from 78 percent before cell service. http://www.gallupindependent.com/2005/sept/091505onsat.html . Today I also found an interesting article from The Economist Sept 17-23rd, 2005 (I have not had the chance to read it yet) title How the Internet killed the phone business. I worked for US long distance compay and telco manufacturers from 1992-2002 and major in telco mgmt., without having to read the article I think I know most of the stories. So, internet killed telephone business, I am one of the many thousands who lost our well paid jobs. I am sure we also see jobs going away from post-offices, business cards, birthday cards, printing etc. etc. The world is changing, is evolving and there is no way we could stop it from happening. BUT, if we so wish to push the concepts of DDN, perhaps we should also pay attention to other factors that are happening in our society/world. If our intention is to help those that are less advantage, perhaps we should look at it in a much more complete picture and avoid looking at just a fragmented segment. Just some of my sketchy thoughts. Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Re: Red Cross may be slow, but...
Over and over again I have heard it said (on TV and radio) that the Internet has been instrumental, in fact crucial, in facilitating access to information andcommunications when other more traditional methods have failed. I think this is a magnificent example of how the Internet, an open and free human arena, not widelly controlled by special interests Here we see another divide that this list touched on (perhaps differently), and then ignored. Here is language divide in a different way. Internet is a written world, and whether we like to acknoledge it or not, buying a computer and have internet access is a lot more expensive than a mobile phone (a spoken world). Podcasting might eventually adresses the problem, the bottom line is if a person has no knowledge of how internet works, they might not know podcasting is voice. Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] SMS vs phones: a New Orleans perspective
Hello Taran, Good to lear another thing from you ... The Alert Retrieval Cache concept. I have been away from telco too long. It is new to me. But can this be set up in advance? What I mean is can it be something just like 911 for example. It is there and every knows it. When it is emergency they just dial that number. In this case SMS the number. Therefore can ARC be set up (for example SMS 767) by all service providers such as SBC, ATT in their databases? To me it is always too late to do such a thing when disaster strikes. It has to be organized and managed in PERMANENT way where the pubic know about it without having to be told or force to use threaten to throw them out of SuperDom. :-( Thanks Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Hurricane Katrina mobcast launched
Mobile phone depends on antenna towers. Towers toppled easily with such strong gusts of wind. That has always been the weakest point of mobile/wireless technology. Even if you have satellites, you still need to beam up and down. And with all flooding surrounding New Orleans, you cannot send in mobile antenna Van units. That can be one of the fastest way to restore some communications. Althought I don't see why it cannot be done in the dry areas? Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] Spanish Language materials at midst of controversy
Hello All: As a person who speak 4, 5 languages (not to boost my ability but to illustrate the possible problems), and constantly lived/live in countries that I have to use languages that I am not absolutely fluent with, I become quite critical about usefulness/harm languages would do to a person. In the Netherlands, we also have problems with immigrants that either willingly or unwillingly do not have the Dutch language skills (some immigrants do not think they should learn the language since Dutch is a minority langauge in international arena), therefore leading to many social issues associated with Dutch language skills such as isolation from the community/sociaty at large, employment issues because of language skills etc. etc. Language is the medium for communications. But human language is also the most important skills one should master for advancement in many careers such as lawyer, or managers of any levels. Without strong language skills, there is no way such professionals could articulate their thoughts either verbally or in writting. And of course digital divide. Therefore I think, first and foremost the national language should be enforced. Other languages should be encouraged as added skills. While in the US I came to understand there are many arguement if Spanish should be equally important as English. For the sake of arguement, should Chinese or Japanese or Korean or Portugese or Italian or Polish or Russian ... be the official language side-by-side with English? The problem with MAKING Spanish as important as English is, then most Spanidh speaking persons would NOT think it necessary to learn English since they could get by with Spanish (such is the case in the Nehterlands, most official documents and notices are translated into Turkish, Arabic to make sure the Morokkan and Turkish population are included. Which I absolutely disagree. In doing so the Morokkan and Turkish no longer think it is necessary for them to learn the Dutch langauge hence creating even larger and long term problems). BUT can the rest of the population get ! by without learning Spanish if they so wish to communicate with the Spanish speaking population? Would that also mean making other language groups the burden of having to learn TWO languages (English and Spanish) in order to survive in the US in equal term? For some of us who are lucky to born with two languages or more, and the fact that some of us are more talented in languages, or our personal status allow us the luxury of learning more than 1 language, our thoughts perhaps should be looking at what is most appropriate for running a country, or a company. Short term solution generally looks attractive. Just my 2 cents on the subject about language divide. I can see the arguement from both sides. Just like I can see the problem the IT world (or digital divide world) with the dominating English language (English is my 3rd language). The dominating party should not be too HAPPY about being the dominating party. What they are missig is the talents from ALL the others. Eventually who is being excluded? Cindy Paul Mondesire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all: To many people public service is a zero sum game--if there are resources allocated to accomodate the needs of one segment of a community, they must be being taken from MY community. Add in the English Only faction and you have a fairly typical hyperbolic debate. In 1967, Lillian Lopez (my aunt, and the first Puerto Rican to reach a position of significance in the New York Public Library system) was instrumental in the creation of what came to be known as the South Bronx Project. This initiative offered services tailored to the people of the neighborhoods they served bringing in more Spanish language resources and being more inclusive rather than exclusive in their attitude towards the community. The follow-up studies showed an increase in circulation and in the overall delivery of library services thus the model spread more broadly throughout the city and beyond. This was part of the foundation of what has become known as multi-cultural education efforts in our nation and is a part of my late aunt's (may she rest in Peace) wonderful legacy. I share that to say this: those fighting against such an initiative should spend additional time in the library, period. They can then read about anything and everything they choose and be supportive of those from other cultures who are trying to learn something new. Reading and educating oneself are traditional means of moving up in our society and learning the value of what being a citizen of these United States really means. In my view, fighting against high quality, broad-based library services for all people in a community is simply bad public policy if you want everyone to buy into the notion of cooperative effort, building a sense of brotherhood, and mutual understanding. That's just my
Re: [DDN] Life 8 and cancelling 40 billions debts
Hi Jorge, As you can see, neither S. Africa, Rhodesia nor Zimbabwe are included in the list (snipped) I did not use these countries to illustrate they should or have receive debts cancellations. I am only highlighting one of the 'why' of poverty CREATION. Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Life 8 and cancelling 40 billions debts
All, Below is the most recent newsletter from the European Network for Debt and Development (EURODAD). The content is related to this thread. Cindy -- The European Network for Debt and Development (EURODAD) believes that the World Bank must radically improve the way it designs and applies its conditions in order to make aid more effective in reducing poverty. New civil society research undertaken in 2005 has found that; · World Bank Conditions have risen not fallen in low income countries - Benin, for example, has moved from 58 conditions in its first Poverty Reduction Strategy Credits (PRSC) to 130 conditions in its second PRSC · Country Ownership is actively not being respected by the Bank, which is continuing to impose controversial conditions like privatisation on low income countries even when these are not within countries nationally development poverty strategies. For example, condition to privatise health care services in Senegal and the condition to privatise water management in Guyana · Conditions are still not clearly linked to program objectives. The forthcoming 2005 World Bank Conditionality Review offers a unique opportunity for the Bank to outline a much-needed bold and ambitious reform agenda. Recent reforms by the World Bank on conditionality, including the new operational policy on Development lending, which calls for critical conditions only, greater transparency and more participation in setting conditions, do not go nearly far enough and are not being properly implemented Eurodad has sent a letter to all the Executive Directors of the World Bank, ahead of their board meeting on 21st July highlighting the current failures and calling for: · A cessation of all economic policy conditionality · A dramatic reduction in binding and non-binding conditions · More transparency, parliamentary oversight and CSO participation in Bank lending negotiations · Greater linkages between conditions and overall program objectives, including more use of independent poverty and social impact analysis · An urgent review of the World Banks Country Policy and Institutional Assessment Framework For full Eurodad letter: http://www.eurodad.org/articles/default.aspx?id=635 NEWS: Aid Backlash Growing voices argue aid is not the answer In the run up to the G8 Summit with campaigners hoping for a political commitment to increase aid by the worlds richest nations, voices of discontent have been rising over the impact of aid on reducing poverty. The IMF has released two extensive research papers that suggest aid flows to poor countries have not led to higher growth rates, Moeletsi Mbeki, brother of South African President Thabo Mbeki and deputy chairman of the South African Institute of International Affairs has also issued a new book which is highly critical of aid and finally, African leaders attending the African Union Summit in Libya this week have also registered their discontent. The IMFs new studies, which took into account duration, type of donor and governance record of recipient, found aid did not boost growth. This conflicts with findings of an influential World Bank study five years ago that found aid boosted growth in countries with good policy environments. We need to be careful given the chequered history of aid, that we do not place more hopes on aid as an instrument of development than it is capable of delivering, the fund said in a recent article in the Financial Times ( Aid will not lift growth in Africa, June 29th). In the article, the author of the new reports, Raghuram Rajan, noted that aid needs to be more effective, but argued that this will mean more than just good governance It is not the case that all that matters is good governance, said Raghuram Rajan, We know far less about what makes aid work than the public or governments would like. By acting like we know all the answers raises false expectations. Moeletsi Mbeki, author of 'Perpetuating Poverty in sub-Saharan Africa' and brother of South African president Thabo Mbeki has also recently questioned the value of more aid to Africa. In an article originally published in the New Statesman (Aid must help people, not governments July 4th) Mbeki notes the negative political impact aid can have one of the unintended consequences of foreign aid is to make African governments even less accountable to their people because they do not need their taxes and therefore their consent. Mbeki goes on to argue that the real freedom Africans need is not just shows of democratic reform but real institutional reforms: property rights and the rule of law. Whilst, the real trade justice they need is free trade with each other, within their countries and with each other's countries, free of compulsory-purchase
[DDN] Life 8 and cancelling 40 billions debts
Hello Jorge, Taran Watching Life 8 yesterday, and listening to interviews of some people who are involved with NGOs work, some of their concerns parallel with what you wrote and what some of us must be wondering often. Cancelling debts would not solve the problems in poor country. In fact by cancelling debts, that means IMF and World Bank would no longer receive the 'interests' they once would. Therefore IMF and World Bank would need more contributions from the wealthier nations. And as the circle would complete -- since more money would have to reserve fir IMF and World Bank, wealthier nations would have less to spare for their own 'development funds'. So, what would that mean to other 'poor and developing' countries that do not fall in the same catagories as the poorest countries? They would receive less aids and perhaps eventually would join the 'poorest countriest'. Another question that was raised is, for the past 20 or 30 years, millions and millions of dollars have been allocated to support developing works in the continent of Africa. Where have they GONE? In fact I was just thinking about S. Africa, or Rhodesia. One point in time they were not really that poor. They might have racial problems, but compared with what we see these days, were their lives better then or now? Is the size of their poor reduced? Have their social services improved? Have their discriminations under control OR perhaps now they find a different breed of people to discrimate of? Look at Zimbabwe. What are we seeing? Why there were hardly any actions from the US or UK governments 2 or 3 years ago when white farmers were beaten up, killed, and their farms were taken and given to the croonies of Mogabe? Why was it so easy for US and UK to come up with reasons to invade Iraq and Saddam was toppled, BUT Mogabe is left to run amok? The farms that were taken from the white farmers what have become to them? What happened to those workers who once had jobs with the white farmers? Have an income or a place to stay in the farms? Look at what happened to the shanty towns that are being torn and burn the past 3 weeks in Zimbabwe? Is the US doing anything? Is UK government doing anything? So, right now Blair and Bush are talking about writing off 40 billions debts. What is the us of giving money when the fundamental problems are not taken care of? What is the use of giving money to the like of Mogabe when he is respondible for destroying the country? The problem with politicians is, they go for BIG name tag that makes them look good. It is PR that is important to them. Right now Blair and Bush are working on reparing the damages of their own reputations. So are we going to sit and watch and let them mess this up further? Or can DDN do something more constructive? Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Podcast me a lecture (the educational piece)
Hello Anne, Brigitte Often it is the foreign students who really understand the value of the education and opportunities that are offered in this country because they have lived in countries where such rights do not exist. We are touching on issues that are so large, really there is no one correct answer. I would just comment on two points. Anne: You are right. In general American students do not understand the good fortune they have. I can never understand why there is the problem for young people to go to college. When I was struggling to pay for my tuition fees (foreign students have to pay astronomical tuition fees as compared to American students. For example for local student is 15 usd for 3-units at City college at SF in 1990, I had to pay 105 for the same course if I remembered correctly), I can NEVER understand why there were not more Americans taking the advantage? Tuitions are so cheap for local students (already paid by tax contribution by their parents after all !). Furthermore there are student aids, zillion of scholarship for American students etc. And for the minority such as American Indians and African Americans, financial help to these people were incredible. Brigitte: many foreign students were already privileged in terms of education There are many catagories of foreign students. Some were sent by their governments, some with very wealthy parents, some have low income parents but talented, some self-supporting such as myself. And of course there are so many different nations in the pool of 'foreign students'. Again not something that is so clear-cut I am not sure what 'privileged' specifically is in this case. Personally I think it is the social expectation, life style and mentality of American as compared to other nationatlities/races. To Asians (as I am Asian in origin), education is the most important legacy any parents should give to a child. And we were schooled from young age that study is our JOB as a child. And we should go as high as we can. It is ingrained in our cultures. In the US, it is a known fact second generation Asian immigrants are generally doing better that other students. Therefore I think we can ruled out whether the local schools are good or bad. In fact parents of Asian students very likely would find ways to make sure their kids eventually would go to good universities therefore making great personal sacrafice. American cultures place different values in thier life styles. Unfortunately, with some families, education is not at forefront. IF a person really has a very strong belief that education is what he/she wants, this person can find the means to move forward in that direction in the US without much problems AT ALL. Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] podcast me a lecture (the educational piece)
Hello Teresa, There were many times in college I wish I had had the opportunity to listen to a lecture again - not because of the brilliance of the content, but rather because the content had eluded me during the 50 or 90 minutes of class. One point in time we used to tape the lectures so that we can listen it over and over again. It is especially true for foreign students such as myself studying in the US. BUT .. the departure here is ... WE took the responsibility to tape the lectures ourselves. WE attended the lectures, we asked permission to tape the lectures. My initial command is: students should take the responsibility of 'lectures' instead of being pampered. Again this is my personal opinion because I take strongly that students should at least understand the minimum requirement of respect FOR their lecturer ... attend the lectures and show your keeness. Over the years, I see so much attention pay to technology, but we forget about how to raise responsible citizens. We forget about the social aspects of many things. Therefore even if we have the greatest digital bridging initiatives, would that stand the chance being topedo because there is no social and human decency to support it? Digital Divide is a social problem . NOT a technology problem. Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] podcast me a lecture
Hello Siobhan, Here is an excerpt from the editorial of The New York Time titled: A Timely Departure. Quote: And finally, it's not necessary to reinvent the wheel. One reason the Fast Track Initiative got going quickly was that it did not waste years in assembling a staff of neophytes who narrowly defined strategies for growth to fit their ideological bent. The Millennium Challenge program granted $108 million to Madagascar for, of all things, land-titling, bank reform and agribusiness centers. Those are worthy endeavors, but this is a country where many villages do not have running water, clinics or schools. Bank reform is fine, but real growth cannot exclude the basics. Malnourished people are not going to make good businesspeople or farmers. And they are certainly not going to be asking for directions to the bank. (end of quote) For full article: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/19/opinion/19sun1.html?themc=th Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN] podcast me a lecture
Siobhan, I was asked to trim-off unnecessary message and repost ... So here is what you wrote: So, is the question, should money be spent in different ways - not to enhance technology for those who already have it, but to provide it to those who don't. Would you say that summarizes your questions? Or is that too simple? Here is my answer: I did not say -- not to enchance technology for those who already have it ... One can enchance whatever one wishes, but should not context be the focus of decisions? What kind of behaviours are we teaching students to be the average RESPONSIBLE citizens of the future? What kind of leaders are we hoping to bring them to this world if we do not put some common sense of basic social interactions such as respect, responsibilities etc. ? Although the university might be doing it with good faith, but the reason behind it (please read the first mail that start off this thread) is just ridiculous and pampering. What kind of Higher Education instituion the administor is portraying to the public? That is my major question about pod-casting at Coventry University. Secondly, YES, my thought is as simple as that. We are talking about 'digitial divide', I suppose that should be for the people who has less than the average person. Or sometime NONE. Simple and down to earth thinking sometime is all that is needed. Don't you agree? Complexity dosen't mean BETTER if it is not called for. In fact, often time complexity only create confusion. Solving a problem should not be just band-aid solution especially one as large as digital divivde. Furthermore, without properly defined what we are looking at, I am sure all of us are have our perspectives while looking at digital divide. Perhaps to some digital divide is podcasting a lecture (still i do not see how that should solve the dd issue except instead of sending a video tape now the individual can download it themselves), as for myself I am looking at the people who basically have nothing except a few pots to cook food in, or going to a mud-hut as schoolroom, sitting on the mud floor because there is no chairs or tables in the room except the black board, or to use a twig to trace the letters on the sand --- the pencils and exercise books of the students. What then would all the technologies good to these people when the FUNDAMENTAL structure to support things such as electricity at home is not available? Many of these people still cook food with firewood. If the arguement is well, there must be some that have them ... these 'some' are the 'elite' in their environment. The high officials and their families, the well to do, the expatriates etc. So, yes, there are people who can spend money on all these fancy things even in the poorest place. BUT what is the focus of this forum? I am not advertising to stop technological advancement, my question is 'do we need them'? How do management make decision to put money at where? Take the case of elearning. It is totally a market and money driven concept without much thoughts given to learning to start with. See where it is going after 10 years of ooh and h ?? How much money do you think have been spent on all these wonderful systems? How many educational establishments have been lured into believing 'if I build them they will come'?, how many failed and cancelled proejcts? Perhap we want to ask why these system failed miserably? I don't think we understand quite yet (perhaps we do not want to understand) the impact ON learning from the push to e-learning. There is no problem with technologies, but perhaps there is problem with the basic structure of bringing it to the people? And I see the samething we are looking at DD. By the way, gadgets such as Skype are not free. We all pay for our internet services. Skype and other VoIP products are making use of the 'voice band' of the 'digital connection'. But to benefit from Skype and other such product, one must first have a PC, an internet connection. So, who can benefit from such gadgets? If I am correct, so is PodCasting. If I understand correctly, it is a form of VOICE blogging Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
RE: [DDN]The Personal vs the Social Computer Was: Update on the Simputer
Hello Dr. Eskow, I am quoting below what you wrote: There are, however, proximate as well as ultimate goals, there are appropriate and intermediate technologies as well as advanced technologies--there are, that is, advantages to using bicycles rather than automobiles for certain situations calling for transport. As far as I understand, the Simputer from Amida is with the focus for the needs of a particular environment ... India to start with. But I think it is also for a certain group of people that are perhaps not that advance in using a PC. I understand your arguement here, but I think we also should look at the needs of the target audience. For a farmer that perhaps have limited education, what this person might need is a simple tool that can help him with storing contact information, simple calculation of the goods he needs or prices etc. etc. Perhaps the environment of this person can only supports the usage of ' a bicycle/Amida Simputer'. Giving him an 'automobile/100 USD PC' would not only be a waste of money, but an eye-sore. He might not have the electricity to power his PC, a key-board might become a scary thing to look at, a mouse is another worry. If the PC dosen't work he might have a problem to transport the thing to have it fix etc. etc. There is no such thing as what is good or what is bad, but it can be good or bad for certain situation. Sometime we forget, since most of us, such as yourself, are highly educated and live in the first world, we tend to forget some of the things that seems so simple for us is actually VERY complex to many people in this world (even in the first world). Complexity can be seen as motivation for learning, BUT it can also deter some people and scare them away. I have an elderly friend who is a very well educated mechanical engineer but have such bad experience with the mouse (he has problem to control the movement of the mouse with his hand!) he just refused to use a PC. Instead he is using an old fashion type-writer. Is Amida Simputer or Dell PC a better tool is really something depends on the users. I think what we should look at is: is it a good tool? Granted at this point the Simputer seems to be expensive as compare with a PC or a lap-top. BUT I am sure anyone has some idea of product life-cycle would have no problem to understand the reasons. Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Hardware: What Happened to Simputer? (via Slashdot)
Hello Taran, I am very happy you sent the report from Slashdot, plus your response to it. I am not a software person, but I agreed with you that the NGOs community, perhaps, should give more thoughts into using Simputer. I remembered distinctly a DDN member from India wrote a detailed posting few weeks ago regarding why Simputer is useful for certain communities in India. Quoting the report from UN ICT Policy Task Force Satish Jha: Unfortunately, productising anything like simputer is something that requires a lot more than very fine minds. It requires the experience of dealing with markets, product creation capability and manufacturing prowess at the cutting edge of productivity --- well, how about shipping cost from USA to India ( re: the MIT's $100 Laptop) would that not add cost to the product? Just a simple example. What about customer support where there would be language barrier? Would that not be another cost if we look at time (costing from both customer and customer support) = money? What nagging me as well, could the issue of most NGOs not 'originated' from India be another barrier? Can they be convinced to support 'local' product? Provinding employment for local people? Furthermore we sometime seems to forget there are people who can only manage simple tool (not because they are dumb but they never had the chance to catch up with technologies). In our rash to close the digital gap, we think everyone should have the best available without really understand the conditions of what the audience need. Providing a 1st world lap-top to someone who might only need the tool for simple tracking of income, contact info etc. would be like giving a Catepillar harveseter to someone who has only a pocket-size plot of land??? I hope more people from this community would speak up and support your concerns. Cindy ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Technology Blackout Day
Hello Bonnie, Good for you! ... I am not saying that I should think less about the situation in Africa. Since telecommunications is such powerful tool, perhaps we should use more of TV (that's why most people would receive their news and images of the rest of the world) to broadcast NOT ALL IS GOLD in the rich countries. This is one very effective tool to help bring the RIGHT information to the people. After 30 odd years as an immigrant (moving to many different countries), I understand just too well what are the disadvantages being a poor foreigner. Some time I wonder if I would have achieved much more if I had stayed in my old country. Therefore I am all for keeping the people where they are especially those that are not well equipped (langauge, eduction) to establish a better life away from their familiar environment. To do so, I think TV could be use to educate the people. Start showing them realities. I will never forget my train ride from Washing D.C to New Orleans. Or Bronx in the 80s. Immigration creates lots of problems for the person, and for both societies -- the one that is losing the people and the one that is gaining. Even if countries such as Australia, NZ and Canada where they have a system to pick the best, eventually this system will come back to haunt them. They are creating an elite 'immigrant' divide. Anyway ... that is a different story. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/28/05 9:06:47 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There are people in Africa that do not have running water or flush toilets. There are native Americans and poor people in rural areas that do not have running water or flush toilets in America. Did i mention no phones either? Bonnie Bracey bbracey at aol com ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: FW: [DDN] Simputer
Hello All, This is the link Taran sent on Simputer http://amidasimputer.com/khatha/ If we look at the needs of the 'pressumed' (I am guessing) target audience in India, this piece of equipment is design with them in mind. At least some of the target audience. Furthermore it is both landline and wireless. If Reliance is giving a good per minute price, I think it is not bad at all. Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One other interesting factor in the use of the Simputer, is the access to a source, to use the computer. There are some unusual ones and often that discussion is lacking. There have been various ways posted of using alternate energy sources. This comes from actually working in places where I have seen a lot of computers chained down to desktops with no source of electricity , and with some concern about when or where this source will be found. There are some great solutions. In discussing the use of the simputer, and other technologies, I too would assume that some education is necessary, though I know about the hole in the wall, experiments. One of the errors in the US educational system has been the lack of involvement to help teachers make transformational use of new technologies of all kind. This is a frequent error. Sincerely Bonnie Bracey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Regarding the cellphone users
The reason why mobile is used in many developing countries is with good reason. And I support them. It just takes too much time to put in land-lines. A wireless system can be operational within months if not weeks. Provided basic telco infrastructures is in placed, and there is electricity (these days it is common to see solar energy being deployed ... again it is quick and cheap) ... As for pre-paid, we also have to understand situation with credits etc. etc. For example, if I want to install a phone in my house, or even to sign-up for a mobile phone serves in The Netherlands, I need to show them my bank account, my social security number etc. etc. ... Well, I think most of these people would be stucked very quickly by all these legalities. So, pre-paid again is the most efficient. All they perhaps have to have is the money to get a phone and some start-up money ... (perhaps here is where old mobile phones can be collected as donation ??? if system is the same and frequencies bands is the same ??? ) Most time one would find the mobile phone would help them to start 'something' and start an income. And that we should encourage. Cindy A. K. Mahan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Further to the comments on mobile, it is also important to differentiate the pre-paid mobile sector, which is increasingly used in developing countries as a stand-in for fixed-line connections. For Africa, the percentage of mobile users who use prepaid is 85.3%. Generally, the poorer the country, the higher the level of prepaid use. Although increased connectivity is nothing to denigrate, there is nonetheless a clear contrast to countries with well-developed telecom infrastructure, where pre-paid is a choice among various mobile, and indeed, overall telecommunications services. The point is not to argue that mobile should not be used to extend the network but to argue that if mobile (or more specifically, prepaid mobile) is being used instead of fixed line networks, then attention to social regulation needs to be adjusted; and lessons from mobile market developments need to be considered as a more formal element of the intersection of regulation and development strategies. The ITU Africa Telecommunication Indicators 2004 report notes that the only African countries for which mobile has not surpassed fixed line connections are those that either lack a mobile network or mobile competition. -- Amy Mahan Montevideo, Uruguay ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] The real digital divide (fwd)
Hello Tom, You said : Why in a remote village in Bangladesh when the urban poor in the streets of Dhaka mean you could begin right after landing. One reason I could think of is to stop migration. Young people from villages tend to move to big cities to find a 'better living', or being attracted by the choices. I came from a small village. After high school I left and went to the capital and eventually went abroad 35 years ago. I am one of the lucky ones because I am now in the same crowd as all of you, sitting infront of a PC and tell the world the plight of the poor and less fortunate. Most time I just feel down-right guilty. Countries such as China ... constructions in cities attracted villagers. One reason is, as a labourer, you don't need to know too much reading. Just pure muscle. And miserable lives. I saw that in China, Singapore (that was in the 80s, where foreign workers from Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia lived in deplorable conditions as compared to the local. The Malaysian faired better since their home is only a hop away ...), now in Malaysia ... Digital Divide, migrations, refugees, education, corruptions, tyrants etc. etc. etc. ... go hand-in-hand. Taking care of one without managing the others is not going to work. If we look at all the ills created by migrations at this present moment in Europe, or any where eles in this world, then I am asking is DDN looking at the right directions? Is DDN working with the right stakeholders and partners? It has to be cohesive 'managing' and not with a one track mind of solving just DD ... we have to solve the fundamental problems, help them to build a solid foundations ... These are all the work of policy-makers. But what do one see with policy makers? POWER hunger. POWER mongel. GREED, DOMINATION .. Starting from the most powerful nation on earth. IF the US would spend less time fighiting with UN and EU, and give more constructive support, would it not be a better use of time and resources? But what do we see just from one simple example ... the Tsunami and earth-quake disaster in Asia ??? Or Darfur ??? Or the removal of the UN Refugee commissioner ... why? Digital divide is at the bottom of the list. Don't just give them fish. And sometime I think we do more harm than good. Cindy Tom Abeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Andy The mobile phone and radio, as others, here, have suggested seems to have been spot on. What we must also realize is that the many emerging features of the mobile phone, including txt msgs, gps and even pda capabilities are being actively deployed in the developed world for a number of commercial uses that, in the past, would have required a pc. Some applications, of course, require reading skills. But for many it is not needed. A colleague has been in a car where four different occupants were on cells in four different languages. The claim that phone access is not available in some remote locations is less of a problem than the regulatory issues within a country As I have said elsewhere, the issues are at the institutional levels more than in the technology arena. It seems that eager hands/minds in the NGO and foundation community find it easier to embrace a village project and rationalize it when a combined macro effort, with the stroke of a pen could release more opportunity and allow those who want to work in the field to be much more effective. The other issue in the DD which relates to this is where exactly to attack the problem. For example, working in a remote village is interesting: but when compared to the number of disenfranchised who are living on the streets of major urban areas driven out of the economc dearth of the remote villages to the city, then bringing the digital world to the urban poor seems to have leverage. Why in a remote village in Bangladesh when the urban poor in the streets of Dhaka mean you could begin right after landing. thoughts? tom abeles Andy Carvin wrote: From the latest issue of The Economist -ac The real digital divide IT WAS an idea born in those far-off days of the internet bubble: the worry that as people in the rich world embraced new computing and communications technologies, people in the poor world would be left stranded on the wrong side of a digital divide. Five years after the technology bubble burst, many ideas from the timethat eyeballs matter more than profits or that internet traffic was doubling every 100 dayshave been sensibly shelved. But the idea of the digital divide persists. On March 14th, after years of debate, the United Nations will launch a Digital Solidarity Fund to finance projects that address the uneven distribution and use of new information and communication technologies and enable excluded people and countries to enter the new era of the information society. Yet the debate over the digital divide is founded on a myththat plugging poor
Re: [DDN] Regarding the cellphone users
the reason why a mobile phone, I think it can be even land-line, is because a person can use a phone without having to learn how to write. Or read. Most can talk. Language barrier is still is the most fundamental barrier of the digital world. A phone is the interface between man and the digital communication network. Replace that with a fax-machine, one would find a different world even though, at the very basic, is the twisted-pair that connect them to the rest of the world. The reason why I am arguing, is because IF we think just to give them a mobile phone, we solve their problems. Then we are short-changing them. We LIMIT their potential to verbal communication only. Cindy Teresa Lara-Meloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I've occassionally forwarded the lists emails to family and friends who aren't on the list. My father, a Mexican who lives in Mexico and is an avid fighter of the divide, responded to the cellphone comment below, but he did so in Spanish. I'm attaching, and translating for others to read. Take it as a perspective outside of academia, or the U.S. teresa - Forwarded by Teresa Lara-Meloy/EDC on 03/11/05 01:26 PM - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] De tu articulo Plenty of evidence suggests that the mobile phone is the technology with the greatest impact on development. A new paper finds that mobile phones raise long-term growth rates, that their impact is twice as big in developing nations as in developed ones, and that an extra ten phones per 100 people in a typical developing country increases GDP growth by 0.6 percentage points. De mi cerebrito Pues una de las cosas que se desprende de esto es que, este grupo de gentes pobres y marginadas, estan haciendo un esfuerzo que no sabian que podian hacer, para encontra el dinero y pagar el costo del telefono y del servicio. Ha empoderado a los nuevos o posibles usuarios a generar mas dinero del que habian podido generar, despertando en ellos una parte de produccion de dinero y otra de responsabilidad autonoma(usando el telefono solo cuando tienen el dienro para pagar el tiempo aire) que ningun gobierno ha podido generar en el siglo pasado y este. JL TRANSLATION: From my brain: One of the things that comes out of this is that this group of poor and marginal people are making a big effort that they didn't know they could do in order to find the money and pay the cost of the phone and the service. It's empowered new and potential users to generate more money than that which they had been able to generate, awakening in them a part of money creation/production and an autonomous responsibility (using the phone only when they have money to pay for airtime) that no government has been able to generate in the last century or this one. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
Re: [DDN] Pondering a Quote from the World Bank
This is the hear-say story about China in the 70s after Nixon (have I got the history bit right?) paid a visit to China ... Selling and buying began ... some of the end stories of this era ... brand new and huge farming equipment abandoned and rusted on rural farming grounds --- farmland once belongs to the 'greedy' landlords were divided into small plots for each individuals ... Caterpilar can only moves few steps in any directions on their new tiny homes ... Or the story I was told not 6 months ago by an Indian journalist of the Meena Girls in India. This was in the 80s ???. Money spent on developing the training programs and these were put on video tapes. When volunteers armed with the training materials arrived at small villages, not only they could not find VCR, some of these villages did not even have electricity. So, here I am looking at the world trying to solve digital divide for the poor developing world. Are we going to ship thousands of PC and install hot-spots for WIFI access, and then BINGO .. the local, perhaps, cannot read the language adequately enough to benefit from the wealth of information online? Therefore how can 'they' sustain their interest on 'learning' and benift from those wonderful information they could access to? Guessed what I saw at two village Internet Cafes in Malaysia? I was the only one there retrieving and sending emails. The rest of the 10 or so customers were young kids the age of 10 to 15 playing digital games. I do agree we can gain some skills playing games, but what skills can one gain from playing all these internet war games??? Or some NGOs in the rush of showing 'I also have a website', spent millions and millions on developing some ultra First world site, then discovered the end result qua usage from their 'target audiences' is way, way below what it should be ... and then they wondery why ??? And this is not a joke ... when I was tech instructor for Motorola 1994-6, I had engineers that did not know what is 'delete' on a key-board. They never saw, up-closed, or used a key-board in their life. The gap is not so much the wireless technologies, the gap is day-to-day operations. Assuming eventually I can access the same information the finance minister could. What am I suppose to do with it? Run the country? I know it is just figure of speech, but it is this type of statement from person that is so high-up with so much advantages, such as World Bank or IMF or the US president, that scares me. They are setting the goals for the Frist world, not the Third world. And we call them 'have visions'. Let's get down to the basic. BUILD the basic, give them the basic, teach them the basic, teach them how to use the tools. Don't give them bubbles. Most of all identify other stakeholders that can give their shares of valuable input to this 'digital divide' DREAMS. Cindy Andy Carvin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just saw this quote in the report book distributed here at the Baramati conference: We must work towards the day when through the Internet, through distance learning, through cellular phones and wind-up radios, the village elder or the aspiring student will have access to the same information as the finance minister. Communications technology gives us the tool for true participation. This is leveling the playing field. This is real equity. -World Bank President James Wolfensohn, Prague Annual Meetings, September 2000 I wonder if the Reuters reporter who produced the story last week saying that the World Bank believes the digital divide is being bridged rapidly and that we shouldn't worry about the issue so much would reconsider his story based on this statement. Because if this situation hasn't been realized, then the digital divide is nowhere close to being bridged. -ac - Andy Carvin Program Director EDC Center for Media Community acarvin @ edc . org http://www.digitaldividenetwork.org http://www.edwebproject.org/andy/blog/ - ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. Men know what is happening now. The gods know the things of the future, the full and sole possessors of all lights. Of the future things, wise men perceive approaching things. Their hearing is sometimes, during serious studies, disturbed. The mystical clamor of approaching events reaches them. And they heed it with reverence. While outside on the street, the peoples hear nothing at all. Constantine P. Cavafy (1915) ___ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL
Re: [DDN] [Fwd: [Politech] World Bank report questions size of digital divide [econ]]
I never seems to be able to post to DDN ... I am going to give it one more try ... reading the analysis by Taran and others, I have to agree there are TOO MANY DIVIDES and not just digital. Read the email from Declan, one can just understand why this world has so many divides. When World Bank stated the digital divide is 'closer', what do they mean? Does it mean there are more computers sold and bought? By by whom? I have someone in Indonesia complained to me that 100 PC sent to the country for the Tsunami efforts just VANISHED' without a trace. Now even if there is no all the 'divides' there is still one big divide -- those with POWER to take away the 100 PC, and those literally standing on the other side of the import clearance fence. And of course the Indonesian governmnet is putting extrodinatry import tax on PC and any so called 'digital equipments'. Including when the goods are for NGOs purposes (not sure if it is resolved now) ... The problem with most of the members of DDN (that I happened to read here) is they MIGHT have the good fortune to be born in the USA or other countries that are, as Declan suggested, that have all the good governance etc. THerefore it is difficult for them to really understand what it means to be cut-off because of religion, race, nationalities, citizenships, migrant status etc. etc. etc. AND most of all language ... and of course MONEY ... 100 USD per month for some is a sneeze. But even in a country such as Malaysia which is a modern and very well developed if compared to some countries in Africa for example, with 100 local money I can have very nice meals for 10 persons or more ... THerefore all these talks about digital divide are for people who HAS digital avilable to them because they do not face many of the 'divides' mentioned above ... so how can we understand what the needs of these people? Furthermore, even if we build a teleceter for them and they can access to the rest of the world and get a PhD in something ... what good would that be for someone in a fishing village? It would be just like building an ultra modern hospital without providing ultra modern doctors and nurses ... My question during one of EU NGOs workshop --- providing scholarship to educate people from Africa and other countries is noble, BUT why give them the education they cannot use back in their own countries? And do not forget ... those of use who read and write here and mostly highly educated. We have the means that's why we are here. A agreed with Taran totally that there is just so many 'divides' I just try to do what I can manage to help further things along ... I no longer belive in waiting for a big 'bang' miracles ... Since I am not sure if this posting would have problems, I will stop here. Chuck Sherwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To All: This is the kind of knownothing analysis that is being generated by the World Bank report. Declan's listserv is read by many thought leaders and his analysis will contribute to the general misunderstanding and misinformation about the Digital Divide. Your comments should be addressed to him directly at the Politech email address. Chuck Sherwood Original Message Subject: [Politech] World Bank report questions size of digital divide [econ] Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 01:04:11 -0500 From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@politechbot.com I've never completely understood the term digital divide. Perhaps it's mere parochialism: I live in Washington, DC and have access to DSL and cable modem connections and can purchase a T1 line. But I don't think so -- the real problem is the term digital divide itself. Any such divide is necessarily a subset of an economic divide. I have access to technological resources because the U.S. and its peer nations have stable governments, functioning court systems, not-entirely-insane tax rates, functioning bank systems, and pay some attention to property rights. That encourages investment, both domestic and foreign, and fosters an environment that lets a middle class grow and communications providers prosper. What I just described is not the situation in many parts of the world, especially Africa and perhaps portions of Latin America, that are the most vocal in demanding Digital Solidarity Funds paid for by tax dollars in countries that have made more sane economic choices. (This is not an accident of geography. In the early 1900s, Argentina was an economic powerhouse. Now its citizens are understandably leery of bank accounts and credit cards, thanks to past government thievery.) A recent UPI column describes the problems confronting Latin America today, thanks in large part to politicans' poor economic choices: http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050211-033722-6932r.htm In other words, it's a bit silly to talk about the digital divide without also addressing the underlying problems of broken court systems, military rule,
