Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base record access unacceptably slow
Hi :) I imagined the different lists would take the discussion in different directions relevant to their own part of this problem. I think most of the companies i mentioned already employ devs to work on projects relevant to those organisations. If they could each give one person half a week to Base, to collaborate much as volunteers do, then we could get somewhere other than backwards = which is where we are going right now and have been for a long time. It's going to need more than just 1 talented person to sort it out because skills are needed in different directions. Base is a major blocker to desktop ( small office) GnuLinux uptake (ok, games are and multimedia too but that's outside our scope). If some of those companies had direct control over half a dev in LibreOffice then they could offer a very high level of support to clients in the future especially if the half had an indepth knowledge of Base by then. I don't think TDF can afford to wait until people get annoyed enough (as RMS suggests) because it's easier for people to just stay with other products and the rest of the Suite they come with. A little work and leadership in taking Base forwards might even attract a lot of volunteers to it instead or runing for the hills. Most of the co-operatives i have worked in have paid consultants, part-time workers, accountants, lawyers and all the rest when and where needed. Many of the ones that refused to do so folded or got absorbed. Regards from Tom :) From: Michael Meeks michael.me...@novell.com To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org; Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: us...@global.libreoffice.org; documentat...@global.libreoffice.org; hc.stoellin...@aon.at; t...@tomcloyd.com Sent: Wed, 27 July, 2011 18:44:25 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base record access unacceptably slow Hi Tom, On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 18:07 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: We need to attract some devs to this project. Preferably paid devs because there is a bit of a quagmire trying to work out which patches have which licences and so which cannot be incorporated into the LGPL and which can. Ho hum; the legal / ownership angle is not so difficult to sort out; usually finding fixing the bugs is more problematic ;-) Your suggestion to get lots of companies to fund more developers is a great one - but can be organisationally problematic. Ultimately I suggest the most reliable way is to find and/or encourage new developers to do the work. There is a great spot for someone to love 'own' base in the project, it's a responsible role, and we'd really appreciate someone to do it. I think those researchers could move into coding or documentation after even perhaps just 3 - 6 months with any luck. How could we get this going forwards before the whole Suite falls over due to the 1 app's failures? This is like RMS' amusing 'myth of the starving genius' :-) If there is a serious bug that annoys enough people: particularly people that are able to understand and build databases (which are near being programmers anyway) - then *surely* if it matters enough, one or other of them will start to dig into the code to fix it. There is no magic bullet here, or other white knights coming to fix bugs in LibreOffice I'm afraid. If we want it done, we have to do it ourselves. If you know what a database is, and how to use it, then you are probable quite able to invest some time in building the latest code and having a poke at it. Sorry, Michael. -- michael.me...@novell.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] funding for system operations meeting
Florian Effenberger wrote: As the weekend was a pure working weekend, and people spend lots of their time during week and on weekends, for keeping our infrastructure running, I consider it justified to not give them the burden of also paying out of their own pockets. +1 -- Thorsten -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] funding for system operations meeting
Thorsten Behrens wrote: Florian Effenberger wrote: As the weekend was a pure working weekend, and people spend lots of their time during week and on weekends, for keeping our infrastructure running, I consider it justified to not give them the burden of also paying out of their own pockets. +1 -- Thorsten +1 Italo -- Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com Mobile +39.348.5653829 VoIP: +39.02.320621813 Skype: italovignoli -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] funding for system operations meeting
2011/7/27 Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com Thorsten Behrens wrote: Florian Effenberger wrote: As the weekend was a pure working weekend, and people spend lots of their time during week and on weekends, for keeping our infrastructure running, I consider it justified to not give them the burden of also paying out of their own pockets. +1 -- Thorsten +1 Italo +1 Charles. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] ignore m$ legacy?
Andrew , Others I agree with the point of view of Andrew. Please make LO OPEN as maximum as possible different formats. I say open not SAVE as... We are a Editing House where our 30 fulltime journalists using OO (forced by us), the more than 100 freelancers recieved on regular base CD's for installing OO and also LO. They like the product because the use it for opening all sort of documents and ist FREE :-). But finaly only 20 % are sending there copy in OO-LO format and 80% still in MS format (all sort off versions). Thats the reality, because our Freelancers continuing using MS for their daily work simply because 99% off there clients are using MS. Greetz Fernand -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Fwd: [Bug 39359] LibreOffice clears header format in a file created in openoffice 3.3
Hi, I struggled for a while to find the roots of a strange OOo3 - LibO3.4 incompatibility, but that exceeds my skills. May be someone (with ODF knowledge) is interested to have a look? Thanks Rainer -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] LO freezing the entire OS ( ubuntu 11.04, 64 bit)
Hi, I am working w/ ordinary spreadsheet . Whenever I am doing copy+paste of a 'more cell' selection, it freezes the complet System. Only way out is the Power off and On Environment : Lenovo T520, 4G RAM Ubuntu 11.04 LO 3,3 and LO 3.4.1 ( same issue) It is annoying because : - it has to be switched off/on at every such copy/paste - sometimes, the file can not be recovered ... Am I alone w/ this bug? Is there a fix ? Thank you in advance. Best regards Gyorgy Zold Am I alone w -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LO-freezing-the-entire-OS-ubuntu-11-04-64-bit-tp3204080p3204080.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base record access unacceptably slow
Hi :) We need to attract some devs to this project. Preferably paid devs because there is a bit of a quagmire trying to work out which patches have which licences and so which cannot be incorporated into the LGPL and which can. It needs people that work like devs but also people that like to research like documenters. Could we get Wikipedia, Google, RedHat, Cannonical and others to stump up some cash for this? Could TDF itself afford to pay for it? I think we need a couple of full-time paid researchers and a paid dev to start things moving. I think those researchers could move into coding or documentation after even perhaps just 3 - 6 months with any luck. How could we get this going forwards before the whole Suite falls over due to the 1 app's failures? Regards from Tom :) From: Heinrich Stoellinger hc.stoellin...@aon.at To: us...@global.libreoffice.org; Tom Cloyd t...@tomcloyd.com Sent: Wed, 27 July, 2011 17:53:40 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base record access unacceptably slow Hello, I have been using OpenOffice and now LibreOffice with BASE for a long time. My MySQL database serves a windband and all the issues related to such an animal (eg. repertoire, uniforms, members, contacts, concert programmes, etc., etc.). Of course my tables are small compared to what I used to see when working with DB2 at large IBM-customers. Big tables might have some 30.000 tuples in them, so just looking for a particular item using a filter such as like name* never takes long. On the other hand, I have been complaining about problems using the report writer for serial letters. Conditions based on variables in a table are not handled correctly in the Linux 3.3.3 version (they seem th work under Windows!!). I REALLY depend on BASE not falling behind or on its face altogether. So I also think that some emphasis should be place on it. Unfortunately I neither have the knowledge nor the time to devote myself to such an effort... Regards from Austria H. Stoellinger On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 18:30:46 +0200, Tom Cloyd t...@tomcloyd.com wrote: Don, So, for 6 months, OO (I presume) and now LO (is it that old?) have been promoting a db which doesn't work. I have over 10 full time days invested in this, and I'm watching it fall apart in front of me, apparently irretrievably. I understand LO has NO programmer working on BASE, and with the lack of protest see on the list no one's using it anyway. I'm baffled by all this. This thing is actually far more stable and reliable than I ever experienced Access to be when I used it daily for about 5 years. The interface designer works well. There's just not much to be distressed by and a lot to like, but...it looks like a dead dog. This is sad, and perplexing, and ultimately irrational. For me personally, it's also desperate - or rather *I* am. I'm doing this thing to support my work with a non-profit educational group associated with the Wikimedia Foundation (the folks who manage Wikipedia). I only have so much time, and I've invested a lot in this project. Now I essentially have little or nothing to show for it, right when we're working hard against an utterly inflexible deadline. I see no reason to hope for a fix with Base, and when my record count doubles again, later this week, it'll take almost 5 minutes to locate a record that's at the other end of the db, I need an alternative. Does anyone have any suggestions? More specifically, 1. Are there any alternative graphic interface tools that even approximate Base's functionality (other than Access)? The last time I looked - a number of weeks ago, I didn't come up with any equivalents. 2. How feasible is it simply to use SQL? I never done this, so I have no idea. Since I'm reasonable comfortable with Ruby, I'm trying to think of a way to port this thing to a db engine that has a ruby driver (which HYPERSQL doesn't - tells us something, doesn't it?), and do it all from a command line. Painful thought, but better than grinding to a complete halt. I'm eager to read people's thoughts on all this. And thanks, Alex and Don, for your response. Tom On 07/27/2011 06:34 AM, Don Myers wrote: I've used base ever since it was first offered. About 6 months ago a Java update (I'm running Ubuntu 11.04) slowed it down to a pathetic speed. The latest Java update didn't really help much. I was hoping it would be fixed that update, or that the LibreOffice folks would find a solution On 07/27/2011 07:03 AM, Alexander Thurgood wrote: Le 27/07/11 10:16, Tom Cloyd a écrit : Hi Tom, Just to move the record pointer from the first to the last record takes almost exactly 20 seconds. To do a search of the beginning of the main text field for a 6 character string that isn't there (i.e., the engine searches to the very end of the table) takes 2 minutes and 5 seconds. You can imagine how long it takes to locate and update 10 records. This is
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base record access unacceptably slow
Hi Tom, On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 18:07 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: We need to attract some devs to this project. Preferably paid devs because there is a bit of a quagmire trying to work out which patches have which licences and so which cannot be incorporated into the LGPL and which can. Ho hum; the legal / ownership angle is not so difficult to sort out; usually finding fixing the bugs is more problematic ;-) Your suggestion to get lots of companies to fund more developers is a great one - but can be organisationally problematic. Ultimately I suggest the most reliable way is to find and/or encourage new developers to do the work. There is a great spot for someone to love 'own' base in the project, it's a responsible role, and we'd really appreciate someone to do it. I think those researchers could move into coding or documentation after even perhaps just 3 - 6 months with any luck. How could we get this going forwards before the whole Suite falls over due to the 1 app's failures? This is like RMS' amusing 'myth of the starving genius' :-) If there is a serious bug that annoys enough people: particularly people that are able to understand and build databases (which are near being programmers anyway) - then *surely* if it matters enough, one or other of them will start to dig into the code to fix it. There is no magic bullet here, or other white knights coming to fix bugs in LibreOffice I'm afraid. If we want it done, we have to do it ourselves. If you know what a database is, and how to use it, then you are probable quite able to invest some time in building the latest code and having a poke at it. Sorry, Michael. -- michael.me...@novell.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LO freezing the entire OS ( ubuntu 11.04, 64 bit)
Hi, This mailing list is not really meant for bug reports. Is it possible for you to open an issue in bugzilla and include the file in it? Regards, Marc-André Laverdière Software Security Scientist Innovation Labs, Tata Consultancy Services Hyderabad, India On 07/27/2011 10:19 PM, Gyorgy wrote: Hi, I am working w/ ordinary spreadsheet . Whenever I am doing copy+paste of a 'more cell' selection, it freezes the complet System. Only way out is the Power off and On Environment : Lenovo T520, 4G RAM Ubuntu 11.04 LO 3,3 and LO 3.4.1 ( same issue) It is annoying because : - it has to be switched off/on at every such copy/paste - sometimes, the file can not be recovered ... Am I alone w/ this bug? Is there a fix ? Thank you in advance. Best regards Gyorgy Zold Am I alone w -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LO-freezing-the-entire-OS-ubuntu-11-04-64-bit-tp3204080p3204080.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
