Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice Forums Categories Proposal

[Lucian Oprea]

Hi Christian,

See inline below.

Best regards,
Lucian

---
Lucian Oprea
Telefon: 0745 592602

Pe 28.09.2012 01:18, Christian Lohmaier a scris:

Hi Marc, *,

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote:

Le 2012-09-27 08:11, Christian Lohmaier a écrit :

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:33 AM, Marc Parém...@marcpare.com  wrote:

Users who have problems with installs generally do not come to a forums/list
with the idea that the be directed to a tutorial, they are more interested
in advice with a real person. Tutorials are nice as extra resource, but the
primary reason for a user who has come to a forums for installation help is
to get help by an informed person, which is what we are offering.

Oh, you're oversimplifying things here, while of course the goal is
that people get help by informed person, just creating separate
categories will not magically assure this.

for Christian
I prefer an forum for help and not an tutorial. The tutorial is a good 
ideea for a suplimentar resource.



* Catch-all/General (also the place to ask installation/configuration
problems if not covered by the tutorials) - might even consider to put
Base into this forum as well.

For installation related questions, people can be asked in a sticky to
prefix their topics with [win] [lin] [mac] (, [sol], [and] [ios],...)

We tried to do this on the contributor mailing lists and the results are
that even the contributors do not do this.

I'll scream the next time someone comes with a but on mailinglist.. argument.
For heavens sake: We're setting up a forum because it is *NOT* a mailinglist.

On a mailinglist new posters don't see existing posts. While they
could visit the archives, they usually don't, and existing posts
cannot be modified. So when someone doesn't follow the rules, it
cannot be corrected.

This is all the opposite for forums. When people see the tag being
used, they'll use it. If it is forgotten once, a moderator will add
it.

Coming with the argument that it is more work for moderators is only
halfway true.
Moderators are initially expected to scan every message that is posted
for valid content/whether it matches the forum it was posted in or
needs to be moved. So the more in effort is in actually editing the
topic. But that IMHO is a rather small burden.


So, if the people engaged in the
project do not follow this rule, how could we justify asking users to do
follow this rule?

Again: It is the moderators' job that the forum rules are followed.
And contrary to mailinglists, those rules are enforceable. In a well
maintained forum you'll see many existing topics following that
schema. And if the person asking a new question is not mentally
retarded, he might get the idea just by viewing the existing topics,
without having read the sticky post/some rules on a separate page.


I find it easier to categorize the forums to make it easier on both the
users and moderators-helpers; thereby making prefixes unnecessary.

Empty forums / forums with only a handful posts are a nuisance.
But hey, that's exactly the reason I didn't want to be coordinator,
but leave the decision to someone else :-)

for Christian
Some forums will be empty if they can delete.



[...]
Whether a forums has fewer questions are not, IMO, is not a good reason to
combine them.

I personally disagree on this. Within the OOo-Project there were many
such dead mailinglists, and that just lead to people posting to more
general lists just to reach more people, either leaving out the
dedicated mailinglist completely, or only including it in cc.
And yes, now I did myself come up with but on mailinglists argument :-)
puts head onto pillow ans screams/

ciao
Christian




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Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Forums Categories Proposal

[Lucian Oprea]

Hi all,

The idea to start with fewer boards is very good. In the future, if 
needed you can create new categories and forums and move there specific 
messages.

Waiting for opinions and then modify the proposal.

Best regards,
Lucian

---
Lucian Oprea
Telefon: 0745 592602

Pe 27.09.2012 16:24, Jonathan Aquilina a scris:

As Christian suggested I think the main sections of the forum to start out
with are sections for writer, calc, etc. What do you guys think would those
be good things to initially start with?

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak 
and...@pitonyak.org wrote:


I do not totally agree Christian details inline...

That said, your summary was easier for me to read than the list...


On 09/27/2012 08:11 AM, Christian Lohmaier wrote:


Where's the difference between General Discussion  Lounge (or
whatever name will be chosen) - it is not clear to me.


I assume that it is an off topic forum where you can ask anything about
anything (well, mostly anyway). Just guessing.


  ###

I don't think there is a need for an installation  configuration
category, let alone individual forums for each OS.

Installation is best covered using Tutorials/The existing
installation documentation.
so I'd remove the Installation category  forums and instead cover it
in Tutorials and in a catchall/general questions section in
libreoffice apps category. After all installing is not black magic...


I partially disagree. One might argue for a specialty forum in general
related to a specific operating system, but I don't think it need be
specific to installation. I also don't think that installation questions
should be handled in tutorials, it is certainly not the first place I would
jump to if I could not install some software.

One nice thing about a separate installation section, is that it will
probably primarily attract the new users that have difficulty in this area.
It will likely not see heavy use, which is probably good because it means
that a new problem will be close to the top where a new person is most
likely to see it and maybe have their question answered immediately.


  ###

In LibreOffice Applications, I wouldn't split them out as much, but
rather shrink them to:
* Writer  Math
* Calc
* Impress  Draw
* Base
* Catch-all/General (also the place to ask installation/configuration
problems if not covered by the tutorials) - might even consider to put
Base into this forum as well.


I disagree with this as well, but I will admit that Draw and Impress share
much in common. Math people may be working in Write, and I expect much more
traffic in Write than in Math, but again, categorizing in this way is
generally useful, even if there are only a few posts a month in this
category. The real purpose is that the Math questions are generally very
specific, and it makes it much easier later to browse what has been
discussed in that area. If you can have math be a sub-category of Write,
however, that might be a good thing.

I certainly would not put Base into General, because the questions are so
specific.




For installation related questions, people can be asked in a sticky to
prefix their topics with [win] [lin] [mac] (, [sol], [and] [ios],...)


New people in general are not likely to do this. If they are asked as part
of the registration process, however, that might help in this regard.


  ###

The SiteFeedback  Website contributor forums seem to overlap


I assume that site feedback is for a general user that wants to say
something like this forum is horrible because (or similar). I assume that
the later is for people actively developing the LO web site (ie, not the
forum).


  ###

And I assume that the Admin-Category will be hidden for Anonymous 
regular Users, right?


:-)

One can hope!


  So I'd rather start with fewer forums, and if real-life usage proves

me wrong, create the additional, specialized forums.


It is certainly easier to add new categories than it is to remove them.


  But especially

Math and Draw don't get so many questions that are specifc. Base might
deserve its own section because the nature of the questions is
redically different, and most of the time require database knowledge,
but probably not from a volume perspective. Then again, I don't
read/monitor the english user's list, so it might be different from
e.g. the german project.

So in short:
* remove Installation Category (cover it in tutorial and app-questions)
* combine Apps forums (and create a general forum for non-app specific
question like for installation)
* explain difference between General Discussion and Lounge
* check overlap betwen Site Feedback and Website

ciao
Christian



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