Re: [tdf-discuss] OOXML ECMA-376, transitionnal and strict
Taking a look to the 'standard' I see that section 17.2.3 of ISO/IEC 29500-1 (Part 1) indicates that there must be a conformance="strict" attribute in the Main Document Story. I have generated some documents with office 2013 and the tags appear inside the document in this way: +for word (docx) is in word\document.xml and appears as w:conformance="strict"> +for excel (xlsx) is in xl\workbook.xml and appears as conformance="strict"> +for powerpoint (pptx) is in ppt\presentation.xml and appears as Creating a regular expression for checking this must be easy, for example: grep "<\(p:\)\?presentation.*\(p:\)\?conformance=\"strict\".*>" presentation.xml Be careful as the xml probably is not pretty printed so it can be quite long and impact performance when parsing. This can easily be solved parsing only the first 2048 characters, for example, but of course this deserves further testing Best regards El 02/05/16 a les 14:24, mjollni...@laposte.net ha escrit: Just seen with the System IT team : Unzipping every OOXML attachment and checking a tag inside a specific XML file could be done by script. This would be done on the incoming email server. We would choose a behaviour depending on the result, wether the file is strict OOXML or transitionnal OOXML. As we never had this kind of need before, it's costy in matter of ingeneering time. If/when you have information about how to dinstinguish transitionnal from strict OOXML, I would be glad to hear from it. Then I'll ask my direction if we can dig this (and update the thread whatever the answer is). Thank you again for your care and your expertise. Best Regards. M. - Mail original - De: "Italo Vignoli" À: discuss@documentfoundation.org Envoyé: Jeudi 28 Avril 2016 14:37:08 Objet: Re: [tdf-discuss] OOXML ECMA-376, transitionnal and strict On 28/04/2016 09:15, mjollni...@laposte.net wrote: The question is, how do we enforce the rules with the greatest efficiency possible. Unfortunately, interoperability is strictly related to the user behaviour, and should become a topic for students in schools. Users should learn how to create interoperable documents, not only related to fonts but also to other document elements. In my opinion, an automatic reply of the administration ingoing email platform would be the best solution. It would reply automatically to anyone who sends an email with a transitionnal OOXML attached. This email would be written very carefully whith information about IGR v2, about the 2 versions of OOXML and about what are the best practices to communicate with a french administration (ODF). This could educate users, over the very long term (as most users will completely ignore the remark). Therefore is the following question : What is the easiest way to know wether a file is written in strict OOXML or not ? I am investigating the issue myself, as I will talk to an audience of public administration employees in Italy in two weeks, and I will have to cover the topic. Or maybe just checking if a single file exists or not would tell us if the file is strict or transitionnal ? For sure, MS Office 2013 used to have huge problems in handling OOXML Strict: http://www.italovignoli.org/2014/02/redmond-we-have-a-problem/. Microsoft answer on the topic is that I did something wrong as a user, because I created some content before saving the OOXML Strict, while MS Office defaults to OOXML Transitional when you enter contents (so, you cannot save as OOXML Strict a document with contents). By the way, this was scrutinized by the UK Cabinet Office. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] OOXML ECMA-376, transitionnal and strict
Hi In the sake of documenting this, the UK Cabinet Office decision can be found here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/open-standards-for-government/sharing-or-collaborating-with-government-documents In this URL there is addditional information about the supoport process: https://standards.data.gov.uk/meeting/technical-standards-panel-meeting-17-march-2014 the main reason behind the ooxml rejection seems to be: We considered ODF and OpenXML in view of the UK Government definition of open standards, which was set following a full public consultation in 2012. ODF appeared to meet the definition. However, OpenXML did not appear to meet the criteria for market support - particularly regarding vendor independence. We found products which appear to implement OpenXML but only the most recent products claim to have the strict implementation and it is not used as a default format in any product. In addition, the development of the standard currently has limited involvement from outside a single supplier of office productivity suites. Thanks El 26/04/16 a les 19:27, Italo Vignoli ha escrit: On 26/04/2016 15:09, pasqual milvaques wrote: The 'transitional' variant of ooxml is specified in Part 4 of ISO/IEC 29500 so it's standard, it's supposed that the features of the transitional variant ease the transition from older formats, I'm not sure if there is a plan for making the strict variant the default in MS Office, in Office 2016 it's not yet OOXML Transitional is definitely not recognized as a standard, and is specified in Part 4 of ISO/IEC 29500 exactly because is not a standard (to make it clear how it differs from the standard). OOXML Transitional was accepted to ease the transition to the standard, and as such should have lasted only a few years, while it has been used by Microsoft as the default OOXML format since forever. In addition, OOXML Transitional is different for each version of MS Office, and the differences are not documented (only the first OOXML Transitional was documented). In addition, OOXML Strict - which is the ONLY accepted standard - is almost impossible to obtain by normal users, as the process is far from the usual one, as in order to have an OOXML Strict you must save the document before performing ANY action (as otherwise the format switches to OOXML Transitional, which is not a standard). UK Cabinet Office has clearly documented the reasons why OOXML is not a standard file format. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] OOXML ECMA-376, transitionnal and strict
You can ask in the Microsoft open specifications forum: https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-us/home?category=openspecifications But, please, be polite, people there can have another perspective of this matter and expressions like MS$ doesn't help The 'transitional' variant of ooxml is specified in Part 4 of ISO/IEC 29500 so it's standard, it's supposed that the features of the transitional variant ease the transition from older formats, I'm not sure if there is a plan for making the strict variant the default in MS Office, in Office 2016 it's not yet Best regards El 26/04/16 a les 12:46, mjollni...@laposte.net ha escrit: So. Is it correct to say that the Transitionnal OOXML format is not compliant with any international standard or norm ? Neither ECMA, nor ISO, nor anything but MS$ itself. If so, Does this means that NO version of MS$ office (from 2010 to the actual) writes BY DEFAULT in a standardized or normalised format. (cf. https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc179191%28v=office.16%29.aspx for default formats) Is anyone confident enough in his knowledge of OOXML to acknowledge this ? Maybe this place is not the best one to ask the question ? If so, would please somebody advice me the best place to post the question ? - Mail original - De: "Florian Reisinger" À: mjollni...@laposte.net, discuss@documentfoundation.org Envoyé: Mardi 26 Avril 2016 13:26:12 Objet: Re: [tdf-discuss] OOXML ECMA-376, transitionnal and strict Short answer: Any release (2007,2010,2013,2016) has it's own transitional format. AFAIK < mjollni...@laposte.net > schrieb am Di., 26. Apr. 2016, 10:13: Hello, I'm a french user willing to get some answers about OOXML format. This post is already released on the fr.discuss mailing list. As you may know, something changing the game just happened in France. The second version of the Interoperability General Refenrential was just released. It demands all the public administrations (by law) to conform to certain file formats when the exchanged from administration to administration or from a citizen to an administration and vice et versa. ODF is recommended. OOXML strict is tolerated in some case. OOXML transitionnal is not. Binary older file formats are not either. Thus, it becomes very interresting to investigate what's behind OOXML. in this article : https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/osor/case/complex-singularity-versus-openness 3 different OOXML formats are described : "There is the ECMA version (that’s the one MS Office 2007 writes, which was certified by ECMA International). Then there is OOXML Transitional, which is relatively close to the ECMA version, and is the format that all later versions to date write as default. Finally, there is OOXML Strict." In this MS$ tab : https://blogs.office.com/2012/08/13/new-file-format-options-in-the-new-office/#DR3YrKG0ymm0vmwB.97 Only two OOXML formats are described : transitionnal and strict A very simple question to an OOXML specialist : Is transitionnal OOXML ECMA-376 compliant ? If not, is transitionnal OOXML compliant with any norm or standard ? Best regards and thanks in advance for any answer. M. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Fwd: problemas libre office
hola nelson tienes un buen brown entre manos lo primero que has de tener en cuenta es que la lista tdf-discuss no es el sitio adecuado para discutir esta clase de cosas, te recomiendo que te suscribas a: us...@es.libreoffice.org(http://es.libreoffice.org/asistencia/listas-de-correo/) si se te da bien el ingles puedes escribir a: us...@global.libreoffice.org lo normal es que para llevar a cabo un proyecto del nivel que comentas montes un equipo de trabajo con: -unos 5-10 operadores que se dediquen a solucionar problemas basicos(nivel 1) -un par de ingenieros de soporte de nivel 2 que te conviertan macros y documentos -una linea soporte para el nivel 3 (este nivel implica cambiar codigo en libreoffice y raras veces el personal interno de la organizacion es capaz de hacer esto con garantias) puedes leerte lo que hay en esta pagina: https://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/ ahi te detallan un poco los perfiles que hacen falta para llevar a cabo un proyecto de este estilo. en diferentes sesiones de la libreoffice conference hay gente que ha contado sus experiencias en migraciones a libreoffice, puede venirte bien revisar las presentaciones para ver como otras personas han abordado este asunto: https://conference.libreoffice.org/ lo mas facil a lo mejor seria que contactaras con un gran proveedor de soluciones de software libre como red hat, suse, collabora, etc y que te hagan una explicacion de como se gestiona un proyecto de este estilo y te hagan un propuesta de ayuda saludos El 30/04/14 19:00, NELSON ADOLFO BARRERA RODRIGUEZ ha escrit: cordial saludo le escribo y deseo exponerle unos problemas de incompatibilidad entre libreoffice vs msoffice que se me estan presentando en la migracion de documentos que contienen flujogramas y que al abrirlo en ms office se me desconfiguran o cuando hago la accion de copiar y pegar el libre office se me queda pegado y de igual forma las macros tampoco me funcionan tengo alrededor de 500 macros para migrar gracias por su ayuda pues de esto depende el lograr bajar la resistencia al cambio a software libre archivo de nombre 1D-PGE-031 desprotegido problema con macros archvo de nombre 1D-DHP-P1.doc cuando se abre en libre office se desconfigura por completo. Por favor su ayuda con estos problemas y asi lograr un buen concepto acerca de esta migracion. en espera de su gran ayuda y orientaciones -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
