Re: [tdf-discuss] removing mailing list prefixes?
On 8/2/2012 4:10 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, M. Fioretti wrote on 2012-08-02 11:15: According to this page it does: http://legroom.net/howto/thunderbird Thunderbird does, GMail doesn't. :) I filter just fine in Thunderbird on the recipients ... e.g., for this list To contains discuss@documentfoundation.org OR Cc contains documentfoundation.org Gmail would handle that filter just fine also kazar -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] removing mailing list prefixes?
Hello, looking at the feedback so far, I think we'll better put that topic on hold. Proposals are indeed very diverse, and it looks like we do less damage by adding a maybe unneeded prefix, rather than removing it and creating chaos. ;-) Thanks for your feedback, everyone! Florian -- Florian Effenberger, Chairman of the Board (Vorstandsvorsitzender) Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] removing mailing list prefixes?
On 02/08/12 00:28, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hello, I saw today this discussion,:-) today, a discussion started on the certification mailing list whether we want to get rid of those mailing list prefixes in the subject, like [libreoffice-announce], [libreoffice-conference] or [tdf-discuss]. This would be helpful in several ways, like DKIM and other e-mail signing tools don't break, plus it looks much better in the mail overview. However, this depends on how people filter their e-mail. Filtering on the subject line is a *real* bad idea, rather use the List-Post or List-Id header. However, some mail clients don't support that. filtering mail is not only put them into a folder, but also group them in a folder like SUSE, KDE or OFFICE, in this case prefix is very useful to have at a glance where that email came from. Are there mailing lists where we could get rid of this prefix? What do people think? Me, people, think that is a *real* bad idea to ge rid of prefix please don't do this! I would imagine that for the users list, removing the prefix is a bad idea, while for other lists, it could work pretty well. Thoughts? Florian Thank you, ciao, :-)) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] removing mailing list prefixes?
On 01/08/2012 23:28, Florian Effenberger wrote: Are there mailing lists where we could get rid of this prefix? What do people think? From the perspective of a relatively inactive observer, FWIW I find it very useful to be able to see immediately which list is in use. It's especially helpful when stuff gets put into spam, which happens relatively often with mailing list communications, because it makes it much easier to find and recover. If the subject line has to change to accommodate DKIM, it would be good to retain automatically generated text so the list can still be clearly identified. I don't have the need to do mail filtering and I don't know whether or not Thunderbird filtering supports list-id etc, though a quick Google search seemed to imply not. With Thunderbird, which I would imagine is a common client, I can see list-post and list-id etc by viewing the complete header, but I can see no way of displaying these eg as a column for immediate list recognition. There was an addon, but it's not been updated beyond Thunderbird version 2. Viewing the complete header is not a practical alternative way of easily recognising the list. -- Mike Hall www.onepoyle.net -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] removing mailing list prefixes?
On Thu, Aug 02, 2012 07:04:03 AM +0100, Mike Hall wrote: I don't know whether or not Thunderbird filtering supports list-id etc, though a quick Google search seemed to imply not. According to this page it does: http://legroom.net/howto/thunderbird HTH, Marco http://mfioretti.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] removing mailing list prefixes?
Personally speaking, the sooner list prefixes are removed, the better, but no problem if they remain. In fact, the real reason why I replied is that I am curious about this: This would be helpful in several ways, like DKIM and other e-mail signing tools don't break, plus it looks much better in the mail overview. Florian, may you provide concrete examples or links to read to know more? I'm curious, because I had never heard of this problem. Thanks, Marco http://mfioretti.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] removing mailing list prefixes?
Hi, M. Fioretti wrote on 2012-08-02 11:15: According to this page it does: http://legroom.net/howto/thunderbird Thunderbird does, GMail doesn't. :) Florian -- Florian Effenberger, Chairman of the Board (Vorstandsvorsitzender) Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] removing mailing list prefixes?
Hi, M. Fioretti wrote on 2012-08-02 11:09: This would be helpful in several ways, like DKIM and other e-mail signing tools don't break, plus it looks much better in the mail overview. Florian, may you provide concrete examples or links to read to know more? I'm curious, because I had never heard of this problem. in fact, while thinking again about it, I stumbled across a mistake in my asumption: If we leave the footers intact (which we really should), then DKIM will break anyways, as the message content has been modified. The problem with DKIM (and PGP, S/MIME and the like) is that the message content is signed, i.e. normally at least the message body and the message prefix, sometimes also more header fields, like sender, date, time and the like. In DKIM you can configure what to sign. If the message content is modified, e.g. by adding footers, or by prefixing the subject, those signatures usually break, as the message has been modified. So, while the problem as explained is existing, the solution is not only to remove prefixes... :) Mea culpa. Florian -- Florian Effenberger, Chairman of the Board (Vorstandsvorsitzender) Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] removing mailing list prefixes?
On 02/08/2012 09:10, Florian Effenberger wrote: M. Fioretti wrote on 2012-08-02 11:15: According to this page it does: http://legroom.net/howto/thunderbird Thunderbird does, GMail doesn't. :) Hmm. Yes, I can see how to do it, but it does seem there is a danger of solving one problem at the expense of making something that was previously straightforward much more complex. In various charitable contexts I've been giving informal email support to 200+ users for more than 10 years and not once has email filtering been raised or discussed. If the list description disappears, to get the equivalent visual clues, users would need to learn about and set up several filter rules, possibly one for each list and they would have to remember what each colour coding meant, or they would have to resort to sub-folders. That's quite an imposition for your 'ordinary' users, who are most likely in the majority. The method will also fail if messages are put directly into spam by ISP software, ie if they don't hit the user's inbox first. I guess we might get used to not having these automatic strings, however, here are two possible alternatives that might be worth considering: a) Ask those posting an initial message in a thread to put text in the subject line defining the list before sending it, thus PGP etc would work again. The disadvantage is that people won't always do it, unless the list servers check that suitable text is there and reject the message or add the current string if it's not. b) An extra column in Thunderbird would also solve the problem. The obvious choice would be 'reply to', which is already set in list messages (but does this header change also affect PGP???), not a currently available option, but most likely something that could reasonably easily be provided with an add-on or, even better, by an enhancement to Thunderbird. It would have other benefits too, particularly to help highlight certain spam emails. -- Mike Hall www.onepoyle.net -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] removing mailing list prefixes?
I vote for removing them from ALL lists... On 2012-08-01 6:28 PM, Florian Ehrenberg flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Hello, today, a discussion started on the certification mailing list whether we want to get rid of those mailing list prefixes in the subject, like [libreoffice-announce], [libreoffice-conference] or [tdf-discuss]. This would be helpful in several ways, like DKIM and other e-mail signing tools don't break, plus it looks much better in the mail overview. However, this depends on how people filter their e-mail. Filtering on the subject line is a *real* bad idea, rather use the List-Post or List-Id header. However, some mail clients don't support that. So, my question is: Are there mailing lists where we could get rid of this prefix? What do people think? I would imagine that for the users list, removing the prefix is a bad idea, while for other lists, it could work pretty well. Thoughts? Florian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] removing mailing list prefixes?
On 08/02/2012 06:56 AM, Mike Hall wrote: a) Ask those posting an initial message in a thread to put text in the subject line defining the list before sending it, thus PGP etc would work again. The disadvantage is that people won't always do it, unless the list servers check that suitable text is there and reject the message or add the current string if it's not. I strongly disagree with this recommendation primarily because I agree with the stated disadvantage. I would go further and say that it will occur less often than not. -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] removing mailing list prefixes?
Hello, today, a discussion started on the certification mailing list whether we want to get rid of those mailing list prefixes in the subject, like [libreoffice-announce], [libreoffice-conference] or [tdf-discuss]. This would be helpful in several ways, like DKIM and other e-mail signing tools don't break, plus it looks much better in the mail overview. However, this depends on how people filter their e-mail. Filtering on the subject line is a *real* bad idea, rather use the List-Post or List-Id header. However, some mail clients don't support that. So, my question is: Are there mailing lists where we could get rid of this prefix? What do people think? I would imagine that for the users list, removing the prefix is a bad idea, while for other lists, it could work pretty well. Thoughts? Florian -- Florian Effenberger, Chairman of the Board (Vorstandsvorsitzender) Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
