Re: WebSite: Nicola's content

[Riccardo Mottola]

Hi,

Svetlana Tkachenko wrote:

Gregory Casamento wrote:

You may note that the tutorials make NO mention of Gorm at all.

I've found  
most useful in this regard. Note it is not on home.gnustep.org orwww.gnustep.org, it 
is on yet another site. Are they linked?


I think you just missed it.

Is in the same section of the mini tutorials and it is called "My First 
Application (With ProjectCenter and Gorm Interface Builder) 
"


Sounds clear in the description? It points to: 
https://home.gnustep.org/experience/PierresDevTutorial/index.html


same place where it always has been (compare the path to the one you link).

Riccardo

Re: WebSite: Nicola's content

[Ethan Charoenpitaks]

On 2/24/24 16:04, Svetlana Tkachenko wrote:

Gregory Casamento wrote:

You may note that the tutorials make NO mention of Gorm at all.

I've found  
most useful in this regard. Note it is not on home.gnustep.org orwww.gnustep.org, it 
is on yet another site. Are they linked?

Are there any other tutorials which have gorm?

Regards,
Svetlana

I've converted that tutorial and a few others to Markdown and added 
syntax highlighting and newer screenshots, which you can see here: 
https://ethanc8.github.io/NewDocumentation-Tutorials/AppsWithGorm/2_Convertor/2.1.html


I think that a viable option for the website would be to write a new 
website in Sphinx, and use a modified version of the PyData Sphinx Theme 
, which 
allows us to put all of our documentation for our frameworks and 
tutorials in a single hierarchy, with the top-level of the hierarchy 
being sections of the website at the top. This would also allow us to 
write blog posts in Markdown, and we can insert HTML into our Markdown 
allowing us to make a more interesting homepage. We might be able to 
still produce separate PDFs of each manual. I might work on figuring 
this out, but it will take a while as I am rather busy now.


Regards,

Ethan

Re: WebSite: Nicola's content

[Svetlana Tkachenko]

Gregory Casamento wrote:
> You may note that the tutorials make NO mention of Gorm at all.  

I've found  
most useful in this regard. Note it is not on home.gnustep.org or 
www.gnustep.org, it is on yet another site. Are they linked?

Are there any other tutorials which have gorm?

Regards,
Svetlana

Re: WebSite: Nicola's content

[Ethan C]

If you visit those pages, they should have links to the GitHub Pages
documentation.

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024, 12:13 Riccardo Mottola 
wrote:

> Hi Ethan,
>
> Ethan C wrote:
> >   Please take a look at my documentation projects. I wanted to
> > write an actual writeup of them before introducing them to you, but I
> > have been quite busy in the past month. I f you look at
> > https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-Tutorials I have converted
> > Nicola's tutorials on apps without GORM to Markdown. In
> > https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-Main and
> > https://github.com/ethanc8/Sphinx-Documentation, I have attempted to
> > organize GNUstep and GAP's frameworks by topic and provide useful info
> > and downloads. See also
> > https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-ObjectiveC,
> > https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-NeXTObjC, and
> > https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-Make
>
> the HTML content was generated, I think the source is LaTeX so that
> different version can be generated. I'd substitute PS with PDF
> eventually, but wouldn't welcome Markdown much.
> Still on the website HTML is displayed.
>
> I'm thinking of generating a special CSS for documentation, but that can
> come later.
>
> -R
>
> PS: haven't looked at the actual content and the updates you eventually
> made, navigating MD on github was not conventient.
>
>

Re: WebSite: Nicola's content

[Riccardo Mottola]

Hi Ethan,

Ethan C wrote:
      Please take a look at my documentation projects. I wanted to 
write an actual writeup of them before introducing them to you, but I 
have been quite busy in the past month. I f you look at 
https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-Tutorials I have converted 
Nicola's tutorials on apps without GORM to Markdown. In 
https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-Main and 
https://github.com/ethanc8/Sphinx-Documentation, I have attempted to 
organize GNUstep and GAP's frameworks by topic and provide useful info 
and downloads. See also 
https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-ObjectiveC, 
https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-NeXTObjC, and 
https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-Make


the HTML content was generated, I think the source is LaTeX so that 
different version can be generated. I'd substitute PS with PDF 
eventually, but wouldn't welcome Markdown much.

Still on the website HTML is displayed.

I'm thinking of generating a special CSS for documentation, but that can 
come later.


-R

PS: haven't looked at the actual content and the updates you eventually 
made, navigating MD on github was not conventient.

Re: WebSite: Nicola's content

[Ethan C]

Hi everyone,

You might want to take a look at my Sphinx-generated documentation
projects. I wanted to write an actual writeup of them before introducing
them to you, but I have been quite busy in the past month. I f you look at
https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-Tutorials I have converted
Nicola's tutorials on apps without GORM to Markdown. In
https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-Main and
https://github.com/ethanc8/Sphinx-Documentation, I have attempted to
organize GNUstep and GAP's frameworks by topic and provide useful info and
downloads. See also https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-ObjectiveC,
https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-NeXTObjC, and
https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-Make

Thanks,
Ethan


On Sat, Feb 24, 2024, 04:02 Gregory Casamento 
wrote:

> Riccardo,
>
> Congratulations on getting this back up on the website. The only concern I
> have is that this is misleading to many readers and people trying to get
> into using GNUstep.  You may note that the tutorials make NO mention of
> Gorm at all.  Given that Renaissance is NOT very widely used these
> tutorials are going to give the impression that it is the main way to make
> a gui project.   We need to be careful to make tutorials so that they
> reflect how to build an application with GNUstep how we currently do it.
>  It might be useful to mark these are historical or to make sure that the
> user knows that these tutorials do not reflect the current state of the
> project.
>
> Additionally, concerning the discussion about the organization of the
> website... when coming to the website there is no clear way to download the
> libraries and applications.   To do that you need to drill down through a
> couple of pages and these are not clearly labeled.  When people visit a
> website, they will immediately look for certain things.   We are not making
> those things apparent on our website.
>
> GC
>
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 7:27 PM Svetlana Tkachenko <
> svetl...@members.fsf.org> wrote:
>
>> Many thanks Riccardo, this looks awesome to have these tutorials back
>>
>
>
> --
> Gregory Casamento
> GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
> http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
> https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
>

Re: WebSite: Nicola's content

[Riccardo Mottola]

Gregory,


Gregory Casamento wrote:
Congratulations on getting this back up on the website. The only 
concern I have is that this is misleading to many readers and people 
trying to get into using GNUstep.  You may note that the tutorials 
make NO mention of Gorm at all.  Given that Renaissance is NOT very 
widely used these tutorials are going to give the impression that it 
is the main way to make a gui project.   We need to be careful to make 
tutorials so that they reflect how to build an application with 
GNUstep how we currently do it.   It might be useful to mark these are 
historical or to make sure that the user knows that these tutorials do 
not reflect the current state of the project.


There is only one tutorial using reinaissance and it is buried inside 
old Nicola's page, not even referenced form the main menu. I kept the 
page for historical purposes only, just "adapted" it and removed some 
broken cruft.
The tutorials don't use GUI at all or use it by coding, perfectly legit 
and very simple, up to the point where ProjectCenter and Gorm come to 
play, so it is a logical step-up. Nothing misleading.

Tutorials are, in any case, marked with a Date

I want just to remove brokenness, retrieve missing content, improve 
navigation before we can switch, not redo all tutorials and content 
right now.


Riccardo

Re: WebSite: Nicola's content

[Ethan C]

Hi all,

Please take a look at my documentation projects. I wanted to write
an actual writeup of them before introducing them to you, but I have been
quite busy in the past month. I f you look at
https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-Tutorials I have converted
Nicola's tutorials on apps without GORM to Markdown. In
https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-Main and
https://github.com/ethanc8/Sphinx-Documentation, I have attempted to
organize GNUstep and GAP's frameworks by topic and provide useful info and
downloads. See also https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-ObjectiveC,
https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-NeXTObjC, and
https://github.com/ethanc8/NewDocumentation-Make

Thanks,
Ethan


On Sat, Feb 24, 2024, 04:02 Gregory Casamento 
wrote:

> Riccardo,
>
> Congratulations on getting this back up on the website. The only concern I
> have is that this is misleading to many readers and people trying to get
> into using GNUstep.  You may note that the tutorials make NO mention of
> Gorm at all.  Given that Renaissance is NOT very widely used these
> tutorials are going to give the impression that it is the main way to make
> a gui project.   We need to be careful to make tutorials so that they
> reflect how to build an application with GNUstep how we currently do it.
>  It might be useful to mark these are historical or to make sure that the
> user knows that these tutorials do not reflect the current state of the
> project.
>
> Additionally, concerning the discussion about the organization of the
> website... when coming to the website there is no clear way to download the
> libraries and applications.   To do that you need to drill down through a
> couple of pages and these are not clearly labeled.  When people visit a
> website, they will immediately look for certain things.   We are not making
> those things apparent on our website.
>
> GC
>
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 7:27 PM Svetlana Tkachenko <
> svetl...@members.fsf.org> wrote:
>
>> Many thanks Riccardo, this looks awesome to have these tutorials back
>>
>
>
> --
> Gregory Casamento
> GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
> http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
> https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
>

Re: WebSite: Nicola's content

[Gregory Casamento]

Riccardo,

Congratulations on getting this back up on the website. The only concern I
have is that this is misleading to many readers and people trying to get
into using GNUstep.  You may note that the tutorials make NO mention of
Gorm at all.  Given that Renaissance is NOT very widely used these
tutorials are going to give the impression that it is the main way to make
a gui project.   We need to be careful to make tutorials so that they
reflect how to build an application with GNUstep how we currently do it.
 It might be useful to mark these are historical or to make sure that the
user knows that these tutorials do not reflect the current state of the
project.

Additionally, concerning the discussion about the organization of the
website... when coming to the website there is no clear way to download the
libraries and applications.   To do that you need to drill down through a
couple of pages and these are not clearly labeled.  When people visit a
website, they will immediately look for certain things.   We are not making
those things apparent on our website.

GC

On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 7:27 PM Svetlana Tkachenko 
wrote:

> Many thanks Riccardo, this looks awesome to have these tutorials back
>


-- 
Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings

Re: WebSite: Nicola's content

[Svetlana Tkachenko]

Many thanks Riccardo, this looks awesome to have these tutorials back

Re: WebSite: Nicola's content

[lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de]

Hi Riccardo,


maybe you can get some stuff from:

https://web.archive.org/web/2012050100*/gnustep.it

https://web.archive.org/ archives whole websites (images are sometime missing, 
but well …) You can browse a timeline there (my first link), the higher the bar 
for a specific date, the more changes were archived this day. Even gnustep.org 
is there, do you know this version:

https://web.archive.org/web/19970127185353/http://www.gnustep.org/


Kind regards,

Lars

> Am 23.02.2024 um 00:58 schrieb Riccardo Mottola :
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> as discussed during the GNUStep meeting, a Nicola's resources were partially 
> missing.
> 
> I was able to retrieve from web archive the JIGS documentation and website. I 
> needed some cleanup since WA injects JS code and alters all links, but I 
> think it is fine now.
> 
> https://home.gnustep.org/jigs/index.html
> 
> Also Nicola's tutorials were apparently missing, yet most were present but 
> the links were broken.
> I kept the original page: https://home.gnustep.org/nicola/Tutorials/
> 
> But integrated them in the Documentation page where they are directly 
> accessible.
> https://home.gnustep.org/developers/documentation.html#minitutorials
> 
> 
> 
> Integration in the main website can be improved, but for now everything is 
> salvaged and accessible.
> 
> Riccardo
>