[e-gold-list] e-gold vs. smaller national currencies (Entry for Stats contest)
We'll start with known quantities. e-gold in circulation - 44,475.17 oz. gold ($11.7 million) total - 46,400.00 oz. gold ($12.2 million) daily transaction volume - 5700 oz. gold ($1.5 million) US in circulation - $562.949 billion total - $817.577 billion GDP - $8.511 Trillion ($23.32 billion/day) The ten smallest GDPs for countries that have their own currency. STD Dobra (São Tomé) - $164 million TOP Pa'anga (Tonga) - $232 million VUV Vatu (Vanuatu) - $240 million WST Tala (Samoa) - $470 million MVR Maldivian Rufiyaa (Maldives) - $500 million DJF Djibouti Franc (Djibouti) - $530 million SCR Seychelles Rupee (Seychelles) - $550 million CVE Cape Verdean Escudo (Cape Verde) - $581 million BZD Belize Dollar (Belize) - $700 million SBD Solomon Islands Dollar - $1.15 billion (Solomon Islands) An e-gold velocity historical data point. http://www.mail-archive.com/e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com/msg02528.html 9 Jun 1999 daily transaction volume - $6700 This works out to 225x in 20 months or 31%/month. Now on to the mathematical analysis... The GDP isn't the same as the transaction volume. The GDP is the amount of official/logged transactions, i.e. retail, etc... However, we can figure out the neccesary transaction volumes given two assumptions. - The correlation between circulation volume and transaction volume is the same for all currencies. - The correlation between GDP and transaction volume is the same for all currencies. (This isn't true, but we something to work with) We know the circulation of AUG USD, the AUG transaction volume, and the USD GDP. (Don't we just love TLAs :) This gives us... USD daily transaction volume - $72.17 billion Which gives us the daily transaction volumes for the above ten currencies. STD (Dobra) - $1.35 million TOP (Pa'anga) - $1.9 million VUV (Vatu) - $1.97 million WST (Tala) - $3.86 million MVR (Maldivian Rufiyaa) - $4.11 million DJF (Djibouti Franc) - $4.36 million SCR (Seychelles Rupee) - $4.52 million CVE (Cape Verdean Escudo) - $4.78 million BZD (Belize Dollar) - $5.75 million SBD (Solomon Islands Dollar) - $9.45 million Using the given e-gold growth rate, we can determine when e-gold's transaction volume will exceed the listed currencies transaction volume. STD (Dobra) - Already exceeded TOP (Pa'anga) - April VUV (Vatu) - April WST (Tala) - August MVR (Maldivian Rufiyaa) - August DJF (Djibouti Franc) - August SCR (Seychelles Rupee) - September CVE (Cape Verdean Escudo) - September BVD (Belize Dollar) - October SBD (Solomon Islands Dollar) - November Viking Coder Worth Two Cents? http://www.2cw.org/VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] The IMF - same 'ol, same 'ol - and Turkey
Subject: The IMF Fails Again Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:25:36 -0500 From: "R. A. Hettinga" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://interactive.wsj.com/cgi-bin/wsjgate?source=jopinemaowsjsubURI=http%3A%2F%2Finteractive.wsj.com%2Farticles%2FSB982876072269320479.htmnonsubURI=http%3A%2F%2Finteractive.wsj.com%2Ftour February 23, 2001 The IMF Fails Again By Steve H. Hanke, a professor of applied economics at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore and chairman of the Friedberg Mercantile Group, Inc. in New York. Today the International Monetary Fund's stabilization program in Turkey lies in shambles. This marks the 17th straight IMF agreement with Turkey that has collapsed since 1961. In order to have a shot at joining the European Union, Turkey decided in late 1999 to put its monetary house in order. The IMF claimed its program would do the trick. It mandated a "crawling peg" exchange rate in which the Turkish lira was allowed to slowly depreciate against a currency basket comprised of euros and dollars. To keep the peg from crawling faster than prescribed, the IMF imposed an operating rule on the central bank. That rule required the central bank to hit a predetermined target for each amount of net domestic assets -- that is, lira-denominated government bonds--on its balance sheet. As a result, the central bank was left in a straitjacket. Without the ability to change the level of net domestic assets, the central bank couldn't alter the domestic component of the monetary base by trading lire for domestic bonds, and it couldn't engage in lender-of-last-resort activities. The monetary base could change only when the foreign-reserve assets on the central bank's balance sheet changed. Would it Work? What the IMF had done was force the central bank to pretend that it was a currency board. Would it work? I answered this question at an eventful conference I chaired in Istanbul on November 12, 1999. I got into a debate on the subject with Gazi Ercel, governor of the central bank. Mr. Ercel tried to convince me that Turkey had a currency board and that I should be delighted. I didn't buy it. Indeed, I argued that a monetary rule that targeted net domestic asset levels didn't have the force of law and that it was only spelled out in the IMF agreement. I reminded the governor that the Turks had a perfect record for breaking IMF agreements. Consequently, I concluded that the new ersatz currency-board arrangement was worthless. The IMF program was bound to blow up because the Turks would break the rule of targeting the level of net domestic assets. Sure enough, many wobbly Turkish banks, which operate more like hedge funds than banks, borrowed dollars at low rates and purchased high-yielding Turkish T-bills with reckless abandon. As a result, the banking system's net foreign assets plunged into negative territory. It is not surprising that foreign investors got spooked and started pulling funds out of Turkey on Nov. 17. These external drains dramatically reduced the foreign component of the lira monetary base. To offset this decline, the Turks broke the rules by buying up Turkish treasury bills, increasing their net domestic assets and thereby the domestic component of the monetary base. The lender of last resort was back, and the Turks were in the middle of a monetary meltdown. The IMF was, as usual, asleep at the wheel. On Nov. 26, the IMF's First Managing Director Stanley Fischer said that Turkey's IMF program was "on course." So much for the IMF's early warning system. It didn't take the IMF long to wake up, however. On Dec. 21, the IMF approved a $7.5 billion supplemental credit for Turkey. And Horst Koehler, the IMF's managing director, said that: "The Executive Board of the International Monetary Fund commended the Turkish authorities for the comprehensive policy package they have put forward to restore market confidence and prevent the recent turmoil in financial markets from derailing the ambitious stabilization and reform program upon which they embarked a year ago. Today's decision by the Executive Board is a clear expression of our confidence that the Turkish authorities are willing and able to implement this ambitious program." On Monday, the flap between Bulent Ecevit, Turkey's prime minister, and President Ahmet Necdet Sezer put the final nail in the coffin of the IMF's ill-conceived program. By yesterday the lira was floating. But it wasn't floating on a sea of tranquility. Indeed, in less than a day the lira has lost 32% of its value against the dollar. The IMF's response has been predictable. On Wednesday, Mr. Koehler said that: "The IMF supports the decision of the Turkish authorities to float the lira. Looking forward, we welcome the Turkish
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold vs. smaller national currencies (Entry for Stats contest)
Bravo! Khurram Khan --- "Viking Coder" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We'll start with known quantities. e-gold in circulation - 44,475.17 oz. gold ($11.7 million) total - 46,400.00 oz. gold ($12.2 million) daily transaction volume - 5700 oz. gold ($1.5 million) US in circulation - $562.949 billion total - $817.577 billion GDP - $8.511 Trillion ($23.32 billion/day) The ten smallest GDPs for countries that have their own currency. STD Dobra (São Tomé) - $164 million TOP Pa'anga (Tonga) - $232 million VUV Vatu (Vanuatu) - $240 million WST Tala (Samoa) - $470 million MVR Maldivian Rufiyaa (Maldives) - $500 million DJF Djibouti Franc (Djibouti) - $530 million SCR Seychelles Rupee (Seychelles) - $550 million CVE Cape Verdean Escudo (Cape Verde) - $581 million BZD Belize Dollar (Belize) - $700 million SBD Solomon Islands Dollar - $1.15 billion (Solomon Islands) An e-gold velocity historical data point. http://www.mail-archive.com/e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com/msg02528.html 9 Jun 1999 daily transaction volume - $6700 This works out to 225x in 20 months or 31%/month. Now on to the mathematical analysis... The GDP isn't the same as the transaction volume. The GDP is the amount of official/logged transactions, i.e. retail, etc... However, we can figure out the neccesary transaction volumes given two assumptions. - The correlation between circulation volume and transaction volume is the same for all currencies. - The correlation between GDP and transaction volume is the same for all currencies. (This isn't true, but we something to work with) We know the circulation of AUG USD, the AUG transaction volume, and the USD GDP. (Don't we just love TLAs :) This gives us... USD daily transaction volume - $72.17 billion Which gives us the daily transaction volumes for the above ten currencies. STD (Dobra) - $1.35 million TOP (Pa'anga) - $1.9 million VUV (Vatu) - $1.97 million WST (Tala) - $3.86 million MVR (Maldivian Rufiyaa) - $4.11 million DJF (Djibouti Franc) - $4.36 million SCR (Seychelles Rupee) - $4.52 million CVE (Cape Verdean Escudo) - $4.78 million BZD (Belize Dollar) - $5.75 million SBD (Solomon Islands Dollar) - $9.45 million Using the given e-gold growth rate, we can determine when e-gold's transaction volume will exceed the listed currencies transaction volume. STD (Dobra) - Already exceeded TOP (Pa'anga) - April VUV (Vatu) - April WST (Tala) - August MVR (Maldivian Rufiyaa) - August DJF (Djibouti Franc) - August SCR (Seychelles Rupee) - September CVE (Cape Verdean Escudo) - September BVD (Belize Dollar) - October SBD (Solomon Islands Dollar) - November Viking Coder Worth Two Cents? http://www.2cw.org/VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get email for your site --- http://www.everyone.net --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: E-Gold Banners............
What program is everyone using to make these E-Gold banners ? I'd like to give it a try. Thanks Steven --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: and wouldn't TWC be to die for!
- Original Message - From: "Elwyn Jenkins" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "e-gold Discussion" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 05:46 Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: and wouldn't TWC be to die for! We have amongst the large companies, five who have accounts today in Standard Reserve. They are leading the charge to encouraging us to rename ourselves "Standard Transactions" and to become an offshore company providing services to the world. A worthy goal. It will come. Not this month. Not next month. But between here and 18 months. What we need are people who will move their entire balances to Standard Reserve who will use it as their USD current account, use the Debit Card as their method of payment in supermarkets, and withdraw cash from the ATM as needed. Get your employer to pay your total income into your SR account. Connect your employer with a professional market maker such as Eric. Get your employer to give you a benefit -- ask for your salary in gold and have him/her bear the in-exchange fee.In turn this will encourage the likes of GM to connect with and become a major user of the system. Not being nor having the resources and/or perspective of a market-maker, I am more of a general user of e-gold. Compared to various "offshore" debit card offerings (w/o e-gold linkage) the $75 annual fee plus $3 month fee for SR Instant Anywhere personal account initially seems reasonable in an arena void of competitive services. However the $3.50 ATM withdrawl fee is still relatively high for small transactions. In order to use at supermarkets, etc. some nominal or no transactional charge should be there to encourage acceptance such a consumer-oriented ATM gold debit payment method. Another type of interest-bearing Standard Reserve savings account feature linked to Instant Anywhere would likely encourage customers to maintain larger gold holdings. Best regards, k.b.ananda ICQ# 20645708 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] need an e-gold central exchange
Hello, I just joined this list a couple of days ago, so apologies in advance if I repeat something that has already been discussed. I'm pretty new to e-gold (haven't even got any gold in my account yet). There is an idea that has just occured to me for how to narrow the bid/ask spread for e-gold. There needs to be a central exchange which works like a stock exchange, where all market maker bids and asks are represented in the same place. As it is now, if I want to find the best bid and ask, I have to do hours or even days of research. This is like buying stocks in the days before stock exchanges existed. The stock exchange, by representing all bids and asks in the same place, makes price discovery much more efficient, improves liquidity, and narrows the spread. To narrow the spread even further, users should be able to have orders represented directly on the exchange, just as the Island ECN does for stocks. Thus, if one user wants to buy e-gold and another wants to sell, they can make their own markets and bypass the market makers entirely, just as the Island ECN allows individual users to buy and sell stock directly to each other without a market maker getting between. The market makers would always be there with the outside spread for when there weren't enough small buyers or sellers in the inside spread. Users could have an account with a broker in order to have access to the exchange, just like with stocks. The user would have to fund the account with cash, just like stock broker accounts are funded. The cash account could have banking services associated with it. Thus, users would have accounts with both e- gold and cash, and converting between e-gold and cash would be cheap and easy because of the narrow spread that the exchange would generate. ~ Vincent http://two-cents-worth.com/?263239[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Western Union SEND Needed
Does anyone handle exchanging e-Gold for Western Union $USD sends from inside the U.S. to destinations worldwide? We desparately need this service. Interested parties please respond with your rates. Current volume is relative low but growing every day. Olga Diakova [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.worldwager.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Electronic E-Gold Exchange Suggestion
THE SUGGESTION Somebody needs to create an electronic exchange for e-gold that works like the electronic stock exchanges, such as the Island ECN. THE REWARDS The reward for creating a website like this would be huge profit and immediate dominance in the e-gold world, and the benefit to everybody else would be a much narrower spread, and easy, cheap conversion between e-gold and dollars. This is a vacuum just waiting for somebody to jump into, and it has lock in characteristics such that latecomers will have a more difficult time creating a competing exchange. There should be an all out race going on, with no effort spared, to be the first to provide such an exchange, yet I hear not even a whisper of anybody trying to do this. STOCK EXCHANGE PROVIDES PRICE DISCOVERY EFFICIENCY Consider the purpose of a stock exchange. It allows efficient price discovery, because all bids and asks are represented in the same place. A person buys or sells knowing they are getting the absolute best price available in that moment. Even in the days before stock exchanges, the need for a common place to represent bids and asks was so great that people gathered in crowds to trade stocks by open outcry. CURRENT LACK OF PRICE DISCOVERY EFFICIENCY WITH E-GOLD Compare this to the current situation with e-gold. There is no common place to represent bids and asks. It takes a new user such as myself hours or days to research all the market maker sites to figure out who has the best bid and ask. Most people are not going to have the patience for that. DELAY AND KNOWLEDGE OF CLEARING PRICE Then, to make things worse, one has to mail a money order and wait days for it to clear. The price at which the transaction will actually take place is not known, because it depends on the price of gold several days in the future when the money order clears. On a stock exchange, I can buy or sell a stock as many times as I want in a day, and I know immediately at what price each transaction will clear, because it is decided at the time the transaction occurs. BROKER ACCOUNTS In order to trade on a stock exchange, one opens an account with a broker. The account can hold both cash and stocks, and may be funded by a deposit of cash or by a transfer of stocks from another broker. One can then buy and sell stocks on the exchange through the broker's account. The broker may also provide some banking services to allow using the cash in the account in convenient ways. Whoever opens the first e-gold exchange could provide similar accounts, which hold both e-gold and cash, with banking services provided for convenient access to the cash. Standard gold already has accounts similar to this. The first such exchange would be more consolidated than the way the stock market works, because the broker and the exchange could be the same website, whereas with the stock market the broker and exchange are separate entities. THE EXCHANGE Would work just like the Island ECN, where anybody with an account can have their bid or ask represented directly on the exchange, and all players can see all bids and asks at any time. This is the equivalent of Nasdaq Level 2 quotes. If you've never checked out the Island ECN book, go to: http://www.isld.com and check out their book viewer during stock market trading hours by entering the symbol of some heavily traded stock, MSFT for instance. You'll see a column of buy orders at decreasing prices and a column of sell orders at increasing prices. Each price also has a size associated with it, which is the number of shares to buy or sell at that price. The Island ECN may not be as big as the established exchanges, but it does allow retail broker customers to bypass market makers and deal directly with each other. It is growing all the time, and eventually electronic exchanges such as Island will most likely replace the old exchange floors. An e-gold exchange would work the same way. Any account holder could enter an order to sell or buy e-gold on the exchange, limited of course by the amount of e-gold or cash in the account. The order could be a limit order or it could be a market order, the same as in stock exchanges. Limit orders outside the current market would be visibly represented on the book, waiting for fulfillment. This type of setup would make everyone a market maker. Users who are not professional market makers but who want to buy or sell gold could enter limit orders in the middle of the spread and wait for another similar user to take the opposite side of the transaction. The spread could get pretty darn narrow. Even the professional market makers could profitably make much narrower spreads than they do now. There would be no wait to know the price the exchange happened at, like there is now. There would be no waiting for funds to clear. It would just be a bookkeeping entry, noting change of ownership of e-gold and cash that are in two different accounts on the same site. THE BID / ASK
[e-gold-list] Re: If there are to be no more t-bills...
Almost all of the world uses non backed fiat currency. The world has never seen this before Brenton Woods in 1971. Fiat currencies are fraud and theft. I've heard statements like this quite a few times now, and it all sounds a bit like hot air to me. It doesn't quite make sense. Would you care to explain why you think fiat currencies are inherently and completely bad, as opposed to non-fiat currencies? Such as gold-based ones, I presume? I don't think gold-based currencies are backed by anything much better either. Sure, you can have a ton of gold. But what good is a ton of gold? I can't use it. There are only a few high-tech industries that make what could be called constructive use gold, and the rest of it is used for displays of vanity. To me, a ton of gold means about as much as a ton of hay. *Unless* I can sell it to someone who *does* have a need for gold as a material. Such as the aerospace industry, or the computer hardware industry. These people will pay for gold as much as makes economic sense, compared to alternatives - such as the use of other materials with similar characteristics. Of course, I can also sell the gold to someone who will sell it to someone who will sell it as material to the industry that can use it. But at the end of it all, any sensible basis for the price of gold is set by this same industry: gold cannot be worth less than those people will pay for it, and in the long term it cannot be worth much more either. So, instead of a currency that is backed by the entire economy, you have a currency that is backed by only a small branch of that economy. How is that much better than USD? Suppose someone finds a huge goldmine. Or someone discovers an asteroid that consists of pure gold, and hauls it to Earth. Or someone discovers a way to produce gold atoms cheaply. Or, more probably, someone finds a way to convert major gold-using industrial processes to use another, cheaper material instead. If your fortune is based on gold, it will depreciate in value - big time. If your fortune is backed by the economy as a whole, discoveries of more efficient industrial processes or new goldmines don't have an influence. No, scrap that - they do have an influence: more efficient industrial processes mean economic growth, which makes the economy-based currency stronger. I think the concept of currency backed by economy is good. After all, money is compensation for hours spent working. Money ought to correspond to time spent, not to weight of material acquired. So I think it does make great sense to back a currency on economy, not on material. My opinion is therefore that any bashing of "fiat currencies" a priori is largely unsubstantiated. It may be true that a gold-backed currency would survive an economic recession better than an economy-backed currency; but on the other hand, an economy-backed currency is resilient to changes which cause depreciation in the value of gold. The two types seem to be complementary rather than adversary. Regards, denis --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: the STATS CONTEST!!! (2 grams now!)
"When will the daily transaction volume of e-gold first begin to rival the daily transaction volume of one of the smaller national currencies?" Answer: "I submit that answers to this question will need to be based on gross assumptions about any quantity or volume of transactions in any national currency. No country can or does know or publish overall transaction volume statistics. Because of the centralized nature of the e-gold system, and the public knowledge of its transaction volume, its numbers for comparison are accurately known. The Fisher identity (MV=PT) is an idealized equation which we can not insert real numbers for on any national currency. Only systems such as e-gold can provide meaning to the constituent components of that equation - namely the number of transactions and velocity. We can guess and speculate at answers - and have fun doing so - but large assumptions will swing the results over such a range as to become next to meaningless." HR IMPORTANT NOTICE: If you are not using HushMail, this message could have been read easily by the many people who have access to your open personal email messages. Get your FREE, totally secure email address at http://www.hushmail.com. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: the STATS CONTEST!!! (2 grams now!)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, we have ONE answer in for the stats contest! Not the longest answer, but that will win it if it's the only one! jic When will the daily transaction volume jic of e-gold first begin to rival the daily jic transaction volume of one of the smaller jic national currencies?" I would argue that e-gold's daily transactions already far exceed the daily transaction volume of Sealand's currency...: http://www.sealandgov.com/history.html -- Use e-gold? Send me two cents: http://2cw.org/257121[EMAIL PROTECTED] Read the _Wall Street Performer Protocol_: http://www.openknowledge.org/writing/open-source/scb/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: What's with Standard Reserve
Hi Fred and George: I also had similar troubles at the other end when trying to set up some free "Net Anywhere" accounts and it was finally cleared up after a few email exchanges and fixes. There is a apparently debugging going on yet on the site -- all part of a start up process, but of especially crucial concern to anyone thinking of entrusting their gold deposits there. My problem was responded to and resolved promptly and sincerely by the Standar Reserve support staff. Soon these things hassles should fade away. Best regards, k.b.ananda ICQ# 20645708 - Original Message - From: "George Matyjewicz" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "e-gold Discussion" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: "Loryn Jenkins" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 19:29 Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: What's with Standard Reserve At 06:23 PM 3/2/2001 -0800, Fred wrote: I tried setting up a Merchant Account with Standard Reserve and got nothing but error messages. They told me that my account name was already taken. This, no matter what account name I used. I really doubt if "Painful Rectal Itch" was taken. Anyone have any suggestions on who else to go to to get a Merchant account? Hi Fred: Sorry you experienced some difficulty with the merchant account. I don't know what happened, as I do know we are signing up merchants. I am cc'ing Loryn Jenkin, who is our COO/CTO and I am asking him to look into this issue, and get back to you ASAP. Needless to say, we value you as a merchant, and I will follow up to be sure that this issue is taken care of. George __ George Matyjewicz, President Standard Reserve Corp. -- Atlanta, GA World Wide Currency for the World Wide Web http://www.standardreserve.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: win five grams
ditto on that... slogan good, info good. use the e-gold bar logo instead, though and maybe put some 3D polished/ebossed/shadow framing on the bare white banner and fonts and/or add some subtle off-white background color Best regards, k.b.ananda ICQ# 20645708 - Original Message - From: "PECB" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "e-gold Discussion" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: "e-gold Discussion" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 21:30 Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: win five grams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . . . http://bananagold.com/contests/bannercontest.html . . . #14 is cool PECB --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] UNITS, UNITS, UNITS, UNITS... please e-gold
e-gold is using the wrong gram-ounce conversion. The correct unit is one troy ounce = 31.103477 grams, exactly, not 31.103, which is what e-gold currently uses. I can document the source of the 31.103477 if you care, but it is the correct value; any other value is wrong, according to generally acknowledged standards bodies. Please fix this. It makes a difference for those of us who are trying to interface with e-gold and keep our accounts in grams, not ounces. Please fix it! Thank you --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: need an e-gold central exchange
[...]There needs to be a central exchange which works like a stock exchange, where all market maker bids and asks are represented in the same place. [...] Cool! How soon before you start one? Craig --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: win five grams
I think #7 is great. "That Chest of Gold Just Got Easier to Use" My 2 milligrams... 1: Looks OK, but clumsily-worded. 7: Looks OK, but too adventurous, doesn't convey trust. 8: Looks amateurish, wording reminds of spam. 9: Looks OK, but too abstract, no obvious meaning. 10: Looks too simple, no obvious meaning, slightly offensive. 11: Looks great, sounds great. 12: Looks great, but lists weak, unsupported claims. 13: Looks amateurish, sounds like guerilla. 14: Looks like an ad for a TV show, the pun has a somewhat strange effect. I would vote for 11, then 12, then nothing for a long time, then 1. - denis --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: If there are to be no more t-bills...
Hello! Almost all of the world uses non backed fiat currency. The world has never seen this before Brenton Woods in 1971. Fiat currencies are fraud and theft. I've heard statements like this quite a few times now, and it all sounds a bit like hot air to me. It doesn't quite make sense. Would you care to explain why you think fiat currencies are inherently and completely bad, as opposed to non-fiat currencies? Such as gold-based ones, I presume? I've heard fiat currencies called 'fraud' and 'theft' for a long time, too, and while I can't say for sure that they have these attributes, they do seem to have some similarities. Let's say that I create a new currency called 'Igits', and I loan you 100 'Igits' with an agreement that you repay me the 100 igits at the end of a year, along with an extra 5 igits in interest. Without an underlying commodity backing the igits, then how can the borrower repay the loan, with interest. The borrower must rely on the issuer distributing other igits to other people, and the borrower hopes to acquire these new igits in exchange for services he provides. It has the essence of a con because the issuer must continue to expand the monetary base to keep his loans from defaulting, and this is exactly what the Federal Reserve, which issues US dollars, does. I don't think gold-based currencies are backed by anything much better either. Sure, you can have a ton of gold. But what good is a ton of gold? I can't use it. There are only a few high-tech industries that make what could be called constructive use gold, and the rest of it is used for displays of vanity. To me, a ton of gold means about as much as a ton of hay. The primary purpose of gold is to hoard it -- not to use it in manufacturing. This is its purpose as a monetary asset. How is that much better than USD? With an artificial currency, like igits, or US Dollars, the central authority has the power to destroy the currency by creating an excessively large supply. Such an authority also has the power to extend credit far beyond what would be possible with a commodity-backed currency. Gold does not lend itself to inflation for these reasons, and cannot be debased. You know, if you have an ounce of gold, that it will be worth as much 100 years from now, as it is today. The US Dollar is now worth about 1 / 50th of what it was worth just 70 years ago. Suppose someone finds a huge goldmine. Or someone discovers an asteroid that consists of pure gold, and hauls it to Earth. Or someone discovers a way to produce gold atoms cheaply. Or, more probably, someone finds a way to convert major gold-using industrial processes to use another, cheaper material instead. If your fortune is based on gold, it will depreciate in value - big time. Probably not as much as fiat currencies have depreciated in our lifetimes. Even so, such a new discovery would give people time to adjust, and ultimately, the value of gold would change to a new level, always one comensurate with the amount of energy it took to create it from other forms of matter. Ultimately, what you measure in value, when you measure gold, is the value of the energy it took to discover it, claim it, mine it, separate it, assay it, purify it, mint it and coin it -- you measure the value of the enery it took to extract it from the Earth. Gold is pure energy. I think the concept of currency backed by economy is good. After all, money is compensation for hours spent working. Money ought to correspond to time spent, not to weight of material acquired. So I think it does make great sense to back a currency on economy, not on material. Does this sort of currency lend itself to use in a free market? Could anyone issue such a currency? If not, then why not? and from where is the authority derived for one agency, alone, to issue the currency? My opinion is therefore that any bashing of "fiat currencies" a priori is largely unsubstantiated. It may be true that a gold-backed currency would survive an economic recession better than an economy-backed currency; but on the other hand, an economy-backed currency is resilient to changes which cause depreciation in the value of gold. The two types seem to be complementary rather than adversary. The US dollar was on the gold standard until 1971. This means that the US Dollar was just another name for a specific weight of gold, until 1971. Therefore it's a bit early to draw the conclusion, that such a fiat currency as the US dollar, is capable of maintaining its stature and integrity in the long-run. We'll see... Craig --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: another STATS CONTEST entry!
A great public service would be e-gold saving these stats once a day in an accessible log. Include the stats page and the exchange rate. Actually... I finished a script that does this a few days ago. It pulls the e-gold stats every hour and stores them. I will soon be doing the math to reduce all of these "past 24 hours" stats into "past hour" stats. To see all the stats from 3/1/01 10:59:33 AM GMT - 3/4/01 6:58:38 PM GMT in csv format. http://www.goldgameroom.com/processedstats.csv Viking Coder Worth Two Cents? http://www.2cw.org/VikingCoder http://www.2cw.org/42[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: need an e-gold central exchange
--- "SnowDog" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...]There needs to be a central exchange which works like a stock exchange, where all market maker bids and asks are represented in the same place. [...] Cool! How soon before you start one? Craig shh... don't tell anybody... but its in the works... Khurram Khan _ Get email for your site --- http://www.everyone.net --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: need an e-gold central exchange
-Original Message- From Vincent Youngs: I'm pretty new to e-gold (haven't even got any gold in my account yet). There is an idea that has just occured to me for how to narrow the bid/ask spread for e-gold. There needs to be a central exchange which works like a stock exchange, where all market maker bids and asks are represented in the same place. snippage Excellent suggestion... now you have gold in your account... via two-cents-worth Regards, Sidd. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: If there are to be no more t-bills...
-Original Message- From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Almost all of the world uses non backed fiat currency. The world has never seen this before Brenton Woods in 1971. Fiat currencies are fraud and theft. I've heard statements like this quite a few times now, and it all sounds a bit like hot air to me. It doesn't quite make sense. Would you care to explain why you think fiat currencies are inherently and completely bad, as opposed to non-fiat currencies? Such as gold-based ones, I presume? major snippage My opinion is therefore that any bashing of "fiat currencies" a priori is largely unsubstantiated. It may be true that a gold-backed currency would survive an economic recession better than an economy-backed currency; but on the other hand, an economy-backed currency is resilient to changes which cause depreciation in the value of gold. The two types seem to be complementary rather than adversary. Hi Denis, It is easy to draw incorrect conclusions and formulate incorrect opinions if you do not have the necessary knowledge to adequately assess the situation. For instance, can you give me an opinion on which is the better or more secure encryption algorithm, blowfish or Triple DES? As you can see, unless you are a cryptographer who has studied the two (which appear to do the same job), you will not be able to give a valid analysis. Of course you may have an opinion, but it is meaningless unless backed by adequate knowledge. What I am saying is, your comments indicate that you need to spend a LOT more time researching and learning about the subject of fiat currencies before your opinion is valid. Do yourself a favour and spend some time researching the subject. You could do a lot worse than read the book "Money" by James Ewart. Once you understand the fundamentals of money and economics you may be horrified to know how you have had the wool pulled over your eyes. One consolation... you are not alone, and possibly the vast majority of people would agree with your current assessment. Unfortunately just because the majority of people believe something does not necessarily make it right/true. Best regards, Sidd. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] small point about e-gold velocity
Second, I don't think you can open up a dictionary and come up with how much USD or JPY is traded in a given day Sure, there are many such estimates around --- you're perfectly correct that they are estimates, though! (Even the amount of usd IN TOTAL is ALSO just an estimate, because no one has any clue how much of the paper money has been destroyed, is lost, how much is counterfiet from the israelis, etc etc.) because there is no one place to trade it. John and Bob could be sitting at a street corner and passing a 5 dollar bill back and forth and be trading. They could do this a million times and no one would know. However, if they did this in e-gold, they would have to do it through the e-gold website and so e-gold would know and calculate that John and Bob did 5 million in trading. Here's an interesting thing. It is NOT TRUE that the e-gold server tracks ALL use, spends, of e-gold Erich's MS server now does a LOT of spending of e-gold that e-gold knows nothing about and never will -- in fact, I have often used it as a privacy measure so that Jim can't look up my spends! (Just joking Jim! :)) If A says to B "I want to be paid in e-gold, but I don't want e-gold to know about it", A then simply opens an MS account, and gets paid from one MS account to another. Another example is on the thegoldcasino.com system, which ISL programmed (wave!) Note that there are VAST numbers of transactions extra to the e-gold server, on the TGC system. You could argue that these are not "e-gold" spends but just spends of "tokens based on e-gold" (exactly like chips at a casino). But, the TGC system is a full value accounting system .. for instance when you are given a "comp" by the TGC owners, that is an e-gold spend: whether they had used the use.e-gold.com mechanism to your e-gold account, or sent you the value to your TGC account, e-gold ownership has been moved. So, these mechanisms like MS will grow as e-gold grows, and daily usage of e-gold will be harder to guess!!! --- "A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: UNITS, UNITS, UNITS, UNITS... please e-gold
A bold statement! What does e-gold say? e-gold is using the wrong gram-ounce conversion. The correct unit is one troy ounce = 31.103477 grams, exactly, not 31.103, which is what e-gold currently uses. I can document the source of the 31.103477 if you care, Yes, document it thoroughly please. but it is the correct value; any other value is wrong, according to generally acknowledged standards bodies. Please fix this. It makes a difference for those of us who are trying to interface with e-gold and keep our accounts in grams, not ounces. Please fix it! Thank you --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: If there are to be no more t-bills...
David Hillary wrote: If the borrower expects to produce more than 5% more from capital he uses, he can use these extra goods to exchange for the newly issued currency to repay his loan. Thus the purchasing power of the currency can remain the same, production and the money supply increase and money has performed its function. What is there to complain about? It's impossible for a micro group of human beings to know just how much currency a legal jurisdiction needs. 'The Road to Serfdom' explains this quite well. Because a treasury and a central bank are political institutions, they always err on the side of too much in the favor of the government that they work for, untill the currency is worthless or the government is embarressed into changing to a new currency. "Inflation only occurs when the government prints paper money that is not backed by increased production." - Richard Salsman Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: If there are to be no more t-bills...
It's impossible for a micro group of human beings to know just how much currency a legal jurisdiction needs. 'The Road to Serfdom' explains this quite well. Because a treasury and a central bank are political institutions, they always err on the side of too much in the favor of the government that they work for, untill the currency is worthless or the government is embarressed into changing to a new currency. Though this sort of 'error' hasn't happened yet with US currency in the recent past, the US has had periods of serious inflation, (in the 1970's), and serious deflation, (in the 1930's), precisely because of the decisions of the central bank. During the 1910's and 1920's, the central bank was not able to keep the currency stable with the supply of gold which backed it, (and they were required to do this). The cause was an inflated money supply which found its way into the stock market and into production. When stocks collapsed, it became apparent that a currency devaluation was needed; and people started hoarding gold, in exchange for dollar bills. This led President Roosevelt to issue an executive order making it illegal for citizens to own gold, and requiring them to turn in their gold to the US Government. Even though the Federal Reserve raised interest rates, cut-off new credit, and started reeling in the money supply, the net result was that about 70% more money existed than the available supply of gold and the US dollar was devalued for the first time since the country's inception, (I believe), from around $20 an ounce to $35 an ounce. This was all the result of 20 years of easy credit, promoted by the Federal Reserve. Then, in the 1970's with the dollar floating in the world market, the Federal Reserve, again, failed to keep interest rates high enough to control inflation, which resulted in periods of extreme inflation, including double-digit inflation, from 1973 - 1979. Things didn't calm down until Paul Volker was appointed Chairman of the Federal Reserve, (by Jimmy Carter). He understood the relationship between inflation and interest rates; he raised interest rates to near 20%, until inflation dropped, and the problem has not appeared since. However, the decision to increase interest rates, (to control inflation), or to lower interest rates, (to encourage economic growth), ALWAYS has a political element, and the time will come again when it becomes politically difficult to raise interest rates to control inflation, and this could easily cause the problems in the 1970's to return again. Politics and Money have never mixed for long. Craig --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Currency Acronyms
Quick question regarding your e-gold list post on smaller natl. currencies. I noted you were using three letter designation for the countries listed. I wondered what list you use. I use a two letter internet country code designation, is yours an international postal list? No. They are acronyms for the currency, not the country. Exactly like USD means US dollars, and AUG means grams of gold. I got the abbreviations from Oanda's 164 currency converter. http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic Viking Coder Worth Two Cents? http://www.2cw.org/VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] stats contest!!!
I randomly choose some much more well known currencies. I sure more people have heard about the Ruble than have heard about the Tala or the Dobra. Using the same calculations and techniques as before... Transaction Currency GDP Volume Australian Dollar (AUD) | $393.9 billion | $3.24 billion | July 2003 Bahamian Dollar (BSD)| $5.63 billion | $46.27 million | April 2002 Canadian Dolar (CAD) | $688.3 billion | $5.66 billion | September 2003 Danish Krone (DKK) | $124.4 billion | $1.02 billion | April 2003 Egyptian Pound (EGP) | $188 billion | $1.55 billion | May 2003 Irish Punt (IEP) | $67.1 billion | $551.5 million | January 2003 Kuwaiti Dinar (KWD) | $43.7 billion | $359.18 million | December 2002 New Zealand Dollar (NZD) | $61.1 billion | $502.19 million | January 2003 Russian Ruble (RUB) | $593.4 billion | $4.88 billion | August 2003 Swiss Franc (CHF)| $191.8 billion | $1.58 billion | May 2003 A fantastic entry!! Can anyone beat it? (It occurs to me that as the prizes get bigger, one could utilize information from earlier entries ... which may, or may not, be a good thing.) --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] special supplementary prize!
BANANAGOLD http://www.bananagold.com announces a special supplementary prize of 1/2 gram to be paid to the first person who produces a graph (linear, not log) of the GOLD data supplied by Jim-of-e-gold, below. First come, first paidenjoy! Below are the velocity (value circulated by spends over a given time) numbers for the e-metal family of currencies during the year 2000: ounces USD equiv*metal January 2000: 1249.532964 354,381.39Gold 1169.8396,037.90 Silver 0.565657245.93Platinum 4.0686181,886.43 Palladium February 2000: 5130.735585 1,551,649.96 Gold 10170.71206453,265.42 Silver 43.990629 22,077.17 Platinum 26.507877 17,820.74 Palladium March 2000: 11815.8752893,363,899.32 Gold 15933.43389 80,523.45 Silver 72.139891 33,941.01 Platinum 74.635992 48,909.66 Palladium April 2000: 16637.2363324,648,909.81 Gold 19215.05302597,233.71 Silver 114.658008 52,949.17 Platinum 52.709904 30,024.11 Palladium May 2000: 31313.9666328,567,201.18 Gold 41776.808738206,737.95 Silver 298.476757 160,673.21 Platinum 53.446741 30,501.37 Palladium June 2000: 33676.2129479,602,085.10 Gold 20299.285283101,528.99 Silver 106.317916 58,055.23 Platinum 56.423269 35,901.47 Palladium July 2000: 44390.19019912,480,088.69 Gold 15391.26703876,389.23 Silver 79.517958 44,871.59 Platinum 19.242223 13,318.95 Palladium August 2000: 52545.54599514,400,719.43 Gold 29297.712111142,795.54 Silver 96.839466 55,349.41 Platinum 27.502104 20,990.54 Palladium September 2000: 70352.89728219,214,243.67 Gold 33783.765807164,656.96 Silver 217.080929 128,545.44 Platinum 85.369579 61,421.70 Palladium October 2000: 89105.52043824,022,509.04 Gold 36582.792326176,599.99 Silver 139.079988 79,389.78 Platinum 37.432466 27,772.74 Palladium November 2000: 499891.503128 132,921,991.31 Gold 24679.106838114,415.45 Silver 80.528075 47,755.56 Platinum 51.700074 40,305.79 Palladium December 2000: 457953.996595 124,291,984.31 Gold 15334.36880171,301.75 Silver 186.408796 113,370.96 Platinum 139.558915 130,611.24 Palladium * USD equivalent is computed by taking the weight in ounces of a given e-metal spend times the USD exchange rate per ounce in effect at that time on the system. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
