Re: [Elecraft] Sequencer keying with K3/XV-144 without rigblaster?
W7GJ, Lance wrote: Unless I am totally missing the boat here (which certainly happens), it seems to me that the cleanest way to make the K3 flexible enough to replace existing equipment requiring external sequencers, would be to be able to adjust the time between K3 PTT keying and the KEY OUT jack and/or KEYOUT-LP pin (or some other available pin) closure between standard short delay (20 ms) or a long delay (for example, selectable between .2, .4, .6, .8 or 1 second). I don't think you are missing the boat but you are likely to miss DX if it really takes as much as a second to switch from TX to RX. By that time someone else will have got there first. I had a discussion with Elecraft about this when the feature was being enabled, I did some research on the maximum switching time of large VHF relays and came to a figure of 50mS. Unfortunately Elecraft could not mange such a long delay at the time in that version of the firmware. For long delays of VHF equipment I am not sure the K3 is the right place for a long delay as it is not something configurable by band and should there be a switching fault, the smoke will still emerge, just 1 second later than it would otherwise. If you are using the transverter output you might as well just put a delay relay or PIN diode in the TX line. No relay is going to object to hot switching 1mW. This switch should be controlled by the ready signal from the amplifier, or whatever it is that is taking so long to be ready. To avoid K3 power errors you might need to ensure a good match. A simple alternative would be to switch the bias to the TX stages of the transverter instead. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Sequencer-keying-with-K3-XV-144-without-rigblaster--tp2158916p2166897.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
Benson, I've done some measurements some time ago with my K3 #1212 and i had the following values: K3 power set to 20W, f=7.040MHz 25W 50 Ohms dummy load MCE/WeinschelLP-100A Wattmeter mode USB 1 kHz sine audio at rear line-input, level adjusted to have the desired ALC bar configuration ALC bar(s) Mesured [W] (avg) 0 8.16 1 blinking 9.4 1steady+1blk 15.95 2steady+1blk 20.72 3steady+1blk 21.2 These values correspond to the above mentioned set-up (K3 #1212 uP rev 2.78) and displayed on the LP-100A with RF head #1143 73 QRO fr Rudolf, HB9ARI Benson wrote: I do not have the benefit of an external wattmeter at the moment and frequently use digital modes, esp. JT65A. Assuming I want to transmit 25 W or less, if I have PWR set at 25 and adjust the mic gain for ALC just under 1 bar (basically just until one bar disappears), approximately how much power would be transmitted? The resolution of the 100W rf scale doesn't really help at low levels. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
Rudolf, the problem is not one associated with the accuracy of the K3 meter, but one of the ALC being fairly slack with the end result that a fluctuating audio input from speech or from a sound card on many data modes results in widely varying power, unfortunately often exceeding the level set by the power control. An oscilloscope or peak reading Wattmeter, such as the LP-100, will catch and display the peaks far better than can be read from the K3 meter. I hope Elecraft continue their efforts to fix this irritating problem, as not only does it make the use of some digital modes tedious, but running a linear on SSB results in power levels which often exceed the legal power limit - even when being very careful to set the drive level (UK power limit 400W, using an Acom 1000 which does not use ALC feedback). 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 - SNIP I've done some measurements some time ago with my K3 #1212 and i had the following values: K3 power set to 20W, f=7.040MHz 25W 50 Ohms dummy load MCE/Weinschel LP-100A Wattmeter mode USB 1 kHz sine audio at rear line-input, level adjusted to have the desired ALC bar configuration SNIP Rudolf, HB9ARI ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
Thanks for this table. It appears we should be aiming for 2-3 bars not 6! Ideally, everyone will have an accurate RF power meter in circuit. If you know the PA current, which you can read accurately and the voltage which can also be read, you can calculate your input power. All you then need to know is the power required for 25W output on your band(s) of choice. This assumes a good match which is safe as no K3 user would operate into a poor match, but many power meters will not give accurate readings at high VSWR either. For example with Bird Thrulines you need to do a calculation to find the true forward power if there is significant reflected power. Meters like the LP100 do read true forward power, but can still lose accuracy if the VSWR is high. irrelevant nostalgia When I started out I bought an FT290, an antenna and a VSWR meter. Back then in the UK it was a license requirement to know what your transmitted power was relative to the 100W limit, or failing that your input power and to be able to demonstrate to an inspector that you were within limits. Our limits were 100W carrier power, considered to be 100W of CW/FM and 400W PEP for AM/SSB. Non-coders were only allowed above 144MHz, previously 430MHz, and the VHF/UHF activity was maybe 10 times what it is now. / irrelevant nostalgia hb9ari wrote: Benson, I've done some measurements some time ago with my K3 #1212 and i had the following values: K3 power set to 20W, f=7.040MHz 25W 50 Ohms dummy load MCE/WeinschelLP-100A Wattmeter mode USB 1 kHz sine audio at rear line-input, level adjusted to have the desired ALC bar configuration ALC bar(s) Mesured [W] (avg) 0 8.16 1 blinking 9.4 1steady+1blk 15.95 2steady+1blk 20.72 3steady+1blk 21.2 These values correspond to the above mentioned set-up (K3 #1212 uP rev 2.78) and displayed on the LP-100A with RF head #1143 73 QRO fr Rudolf, HB9ARI Benson wrote: I do not have the benefit of an external wattmeter at the moment and frequently use digital modes, esp. JT65A. Assuming I want to transmit 25 W or less, if I have PWR set at 25 and adjust the mic gain for ALC just under 1 bar (basically just until one bar disappears), approximately how much power would be transmitted? The resolution of the 100W rf scale doesn't really help at low levels. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-pwr-out-on-digimodes-tp2163956p2167000.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
Dave, I followed the problem you described on the group and this is the reason i do some measurements around the power output because i was a little bit anxious! At the beginning, my only 2 ham references were my MiniVNA output (calibrated at my office at -2.04 dBm , 7.040MHz with 50 Ohms load) and a 25W MCE/Weinschel bi-directional attenuator (calibrated as 50.1 Ohms and 29.83 dB attenuation) These 2 references have permitted to verify the coupling factor of my LP-100A RF Sensor as 29.12 db for the 29.1 dB used by Larry!! The LP-100A is now my 3rd ham reference instrument. I also do some peak/average power ratio measurements for different digi modes and results were ok between 0 db (FSK) and 15 dB (EasyPAL during digital picture transmission) (the 2 extremes tested with software running in my PC). After that, i do also power output measurements with and without ALC (with a lot of caution!) for the K3 and.found something like ~ 1dB more power without ALC (ONLY for TESTING!) With ALC ON, i measured a mean error +/- 0.1 dB between 1W and 12W and 0.45 dB between 13W and 20W. (may be due to the activation of the PA?) During all these measurements, i have my old TDS 220 scope (1Gs/s 100MHz BW) connected at my -30dB dummy load output for monitoring in case of distortion and/or oscillation but all was ok and i'm very satisfied with these results.The measured P-P values divided by 2*SQR(2) gave me a good confirmation for the RMS value. One more (and last precision...), all measurements were done with a sinus audio single tone, except for peak/average ratio measurements done with some available digi modes. 73 QRO fr Rudolf, HB9ARI Dave G4AON wrote: Rudolf, the problem is not one associated with the accuracy of the K3 meter, but one of the ALC being fairly slack with the end result that a fluctuating audio input from speech or from a sound card on many data modes results in widely varying power, unfortunately often exceeding the level set by the power control. An oscilloscope or peak reading Wattmeter, such as the LP-100, will catch and display the peaks far better than can be read from the K3 meter. I hope Elecraft continue their efforts to fix this irritating problem, as not only does it make the use of some digital modes tedious, but running a linear on SSB results in power levels which often exceed the legal power limit - even when being very careful to set the drive level (UK power limit 400W, using an Acom 1000 which does not use ALC feedback). 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 - SNIP I've done some measurements some time ago with my K3 #1212 and i had the following values: K3 power set to 20W, f=7.040MHz 25W 50 Ohms dummy load MCE/Weinschel LP-100A Wattmeter mode USB 1 kHz sine audio at rear line-input, level adjusted to have the desired ALC bar configuration SNIP Rudolf, HB9ARI ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
hb9ari wrote: Benson, I've done some measurements some time ago with my K3 #1212 and i had the following values: K3 power set to 20W, f=7.040MHz 25W 50 Ohms dummy load MCE/WeinschelLP-100A Wattmeter mode USB 1 kHz sine audio at rear line-input, level adjusted to have the desired ALC bar configuration ALC bar(s) Mesured [W] (avg) 0 8.16 1 blinking 9.4 1steady+1blk 15.95 2steady+1blk 20.72 3steady+1blk 21.2 These values correspond to the above mentioned set-up (K3 #1212 uP rev 2.78) and displayed on the LP-100A with RF head #1143 73 QRO fr Rudolf, HB9ARI I would be quite happy if my K3 consistently gave results such as you tabulated. I was going to produce a similar table to illustrate the problem I am experiencing, only with PWR set to 2.0W rather than 20W. I switched on the radio and observed that I was getting more than 5.0W, with 5 blocks showing on the K3 internal meter. This did not start to reduce until MIC was turned down until no ALC bars were showing. I made a false start in creating the table as I found that the MIC control was too coarse to show all the levels of ALC you tabulated, so I started again using the computer sound card level slider to regulate the input level. At this point I found that the power was now being limited to about 3.0W, with just two blocks showing on the K3 power meter. This is the behaviour which is driving me crazy. There is no setting of the MIC and PWR controls that consistently delivers a given power in DATA A mode. You never know how much power the rig is going to put out the first time you click the TX button after you have switched on, changed band or changed frequency. Once it decides to regulate the power, it does seem to remain fairly consistent as long as you stay on that band and that frequency. The problem with controlling the power using the audio input level instead of setting it to 4 ALC bars as Lyle originally advised is that the power output becomes frequency dependent. I can vary the output power between 5.0W and 10.0W just by clicking in a different place on the waterfall, varying the frequency of the audio input. The power at 500Hz or 2000Hz is about half what it is at 1200Hz. It is hopeless for anyone who wants to operate using Digipan click and call style operating. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-pwr-out-on-digimodes-tp2163956p2167473.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
Further to what I wrote, I have just noted that the power output in DATA A still varies though only by about 2dB across the passband even when the audio input is increased to drive 4-5 bars of ALC. In SSB mode, with the audio level adjusted to no more than 2 bars of ALC, and CMP reduced to zero, there is no significant change in TX power output across the whole passband. Furthermore, the power is correctly set to the level specified on the PWR control. Significantly, I observed no difference in IMD measured using my KK7UQ IMD meter whether using DATA mode with no ALC, or SSB with just enough ALC to control variations across the filter passband. The IMD was -29dB in both cases. I believe that when the K3 was released a year ago, the DATA A mode was identical in behavior to SSB except that it disabled CMP and allowed a different selection of input source. If Elecraft would revert to that functionality then I think everyone would be happy. I know I would. (It would actually be nice if DATA A disabled RX EQ and TX EQ as well.) - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-pwr-out-on-digimodes-tp2163956p2167558.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
- Original Message - From: Julian, G4ILO julian.g4...@gmail.com I believe that when the K3 was released a year ago, the DATA A mode was identical in behavior to SSB... It was *very* flat, I haven't used my K3 for the last year other than to add HRD support. I've been using my TS-480SAT as it's more convenient, I hope to get the K3 running again this summer. I agree that the Data modes should have no equalisation whatsoever and should be as flat as possible. Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Sequencer keying with K3/XV-144 without rigblaster?
I guess I'm missing the boat on this discussion. I thought all high power VHF ops used an external sequencer board that did the following type of thing. RX to xmit: 1) Bypass the mast mounted preamp, wait a bit 2) Put the amp in the tx mode, wait a bit 3) Put the xvtr in the tx mode, wait a bit 4) inhibit the RF output from the rig until 1-3 are complete. With a relay based system 1-3 could easily be 60ms or more. Going to receive does a similar thing --i.e. unkeying the various components with delays.. You're not going to get his set of multiple delays from the K3. There are external sequencer boards available as kits for about $20. The K3 has an inhibit line for such use. And yes, the big guns do have difficulty in the bang-bang contest mode. You call them once and occasionally get the comment, I'm not getting your call, my sequencing hasn't completed. 73 de Brian/K3KO D6XY wrote: W7GJ, Lance wrote: Unless I am totally missing the boat here (which certainly happens), it seems to me that the cleanest way to make the K3 flexible enough to replace existing equipment requiring external sequencers, would be to be able to adjust the time between K3 PTT keying and the KEY OUT jack and/or KEYOUT-LP pin (or some other available pin) closure between standard short delay (20 ms) or a long delay (for example, selectable between .2, .4, .6, .8 or 1 second). I don't think you are missing the boat but you are likely to miss DX if it really takes as much as a second to switch from TX to RX. By that time someone else will have got there first. I had a discussion with Elecraft about this when the feature was being enabled, I did some research on the maximum switching time of large VHF relays and came to a figure of 50mS. Unfortunately Elecraft could not mange such a long delay at the time in that version of the firmware. For long delays of VHF equipment I am not sure the K3 is the right place for a long delay as it is not something configurable by band and should there be a switching fault, the smoke will still emerge, just 1 second later than it would otherwise. If you are using the transverter output you might as well just put a delay relay or PIN diode in the TX line. No relay is going to object to hot switching 1mW. This switch should be controlled by the ready signal from the amplifier, or whatever it is that is taking so long to be ready. To avoid K3 power errors you might need to ensure a good match. A simple alternative would be to switch the bias to the TX stages of the transverter instead. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K3- external keyer problems
Guys, Out of the blue, the external keyer input to the K3 produces mushy dits at higher speeds. It seems that each dit has a tail which reduces the off time till the next. This happens in the TEST mode as well as with RF output. It is most noticable above 25 wpm on S,H,5 characters. The first dit sounds OK but it gets worse with following dits. I've tried two different keyers and now the parallel port keying is exhibiting the same. I don' think it is a keyer issue since hooking the keyers up to an audio oscillator sounds just fine. I'm using firmware V2.76. I dropped back to 2.67, where I never had observed this, and the problem is still there. The internal keyer does not have this problem. If anything the dits seem to get shorter as one goes above 30 wpm. That I'm sure is just a perception. High speed CW ops often add additional weighting to make it sound better. Any suggestions? 73 de Brian/K3KO ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 FSK External Pullup
Clint, I looked at the manual, and the K3 FSK input has an internal pullup resistor, so none is required externally. That is unless the logic signal you are using to drive the FSK input has some unique requirements (like needing more saturation current than the K3 pullup resistor provides. A normal TTL level open collector or open drain driver should operate that line just fine. On the K3, it is the *outputs* that need external pullup resistors - the K3 must provide pullup resistors for its *inputs* so the K3 does not do 'funny things' when those inputs are left open. A floating logic input is subject to noise and erratic action - and that is true for any device, not only the K3. 73, Don W3FPR Clint Hurd wrote: Is an External Pullup resistor needed on the FSK (ACC pin 1) input line? One of our Navigator Interface users reported that if the FSK line is also tied to an external pullup resistor, that it caused his K3 to refuse to stay powered up when the cable was connected. He subsequently removed the pullup and the system operated normall. The pullup resistor is a 4.7K through a diode to +5V. Our original cables for the K3 were wired with this pullup connected, and no problems have been reported until now. We will remove the pullup connection from our drawing since it is not needed, and all future cables will not have this connection. Has there been a change in the K3 that would cause this problem? If so, if earler users upgrade their units to lastest specs, will they also have this problem? Clint KK7UQ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1897 - Release Date: 1/16/2009 6:52 AM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3- external keyer problems
I'm confused. Which key jack are you plugging into? - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -Original Message- Out of the blue, the external keyer input to the K3 produces mushy dits at higher speeds. 73 de Brian/K3KO ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Desktop microfone for the K3
I'd like to add a desktop microphone to my K3. I have left a Yaesu MD-1 from earlier times, and made a cable for the K3. It works, but the modulation is rather low volume in comparison to the Heil HC-5 I use. What about the Kenwood microphones, like the MC-60 or MC-80? Are there any recommendations or experiences with these types? thank you for your input! 73! de Werner OE9FWV -- Early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. PGP-Key: http://www.qsl.net/oe9fwv/furlan.asc Fone +43 5522 75013 Fax +43 5522 75013 15 Mobile +43 664 6340014 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3- external keyer problems
KEY IN for external keyer (paddle connected to external keyer, keyer output keying FET to key in) , PADDLE connected to paddle input for internal keyer. 73 de Brian/K3KO Darwin, Keith wrote: I'm confused. Which key jack are you plugging into? - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -Original Message- Out of the blue, the external keyer input to the K3 produces mushy dits at higher speeds. 73 de Brian/K3KO ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
The K3 suggested ALC level for digital modes is *4* bars. The 6 bar indication is for SSB (actually listed as 5-7 bars). According to the K3 FAQ page - when the indication is at 5 bars, the DSP ALC is just being tickled. For data modes, ALC action is not desirable, thus the 4 bar recommendation. Up to (but not including) the 5th bar on the ALC meter, the meter is indicating something similar to VU units rather than ALC action - the 5th bar is the onset of ALC. 73, Don W3FPR AD6XY wrote: Thanks for this table. It appears we should be aiming for 2-3 bars not 6! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3- external keyer problems
OK that's what I thought. I think about the KEY IN as the input for bugs straight keys and was slightly confused by calling it the external keyer input :-) Do you have a bug you can try on that input? - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Brian Alsop Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:13 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3- external keyer problems KEY IN for external keyer (paddle connected to external keyer, keyer output keying FET to key in) , PADDLE connected to paddle input for internal keyer. 73 de Brian/K3KO Darwin, Keith wrote: I'm confused. Which key jack are you plugging into? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
Don Wilhelm-4 wrote: The K3 suggested ALC level for digital modes is *4* bars. The 6 bar indication is for SSB (actually listed as 5-7 bars). According to the K3 FAQ page - when the indication is at 5 bars, the DSP ALC is just being tickled. For data modes, ALC action is not desirable, thus the 4 bar recommendation. Up to (but not including) the 5th bar on the ALC meter, the meter is indicating something similar to VU units rather than ALC action - the 5th bar is the onset of ALC. I did my test for output over a range of frequencies with 4-5 bars of ALC and as I stated, the power varied by about 2dB. If ALC is being applied at the DSP that is just plain wrong in my opinion, as it cannot compensate for the variations in gain at different frequencies due to the shape of the filter. When ALC is applied at the output, as in SSB mode, the effect is a flat response. As long as only a little ALC is used there is no adverse effect on transmitted IMD when using PSK31. I think the dangers of using ALC when running PSK31 have been wildly overstated in some quarters. I have always operated PSK31 using just enough audio drive to give a bar or two of ALC and now having the KK7UQ meter I have been able to measure the effect of this when using an FT-817, K2 and K3. On the FT-817 some worsening of the IMD is noticeable but the signal is still clean, typically -27 or -28dB. On the K2 one bar of ALC makes no difference at all. Incidentally the K2 has the cleanest PSK31 signal of all, typically -33 or -34dB at 5W output. The K3 at 5W on 80m measured -28 or -29dB whether using DATA A mode (with no 'real' ALC being applied) or SSB mode with one or two bars of real ALC. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-pwr-out-on-digimodes-tp2163956p2168256.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3- external keyer problems
Hi Keith, Unfortunately no bug. Now that you mention it, it kind of sounds like a bug when one holds the dit side down for a long time. After a number of dots, each gets to sound longer and longer and more slurred. For what it is worth, the computer interface to KEY in uses an NPN transistor. The keyer uses a 2n7000 FET. The FET on state has a really low voltage drop. K3 Key terminals have an open circuit voltage of 4.7 V (would have expected closer to 5). The K3 displays a power-in voltage of 13.7V. Have removed all connections to the K3 but earphones and KEY. Problem does not go away. Wierd. 73 de Brian/K3KO Darwin, Keith wrote: OK that's what I thought. I think about the KEY IN as the input for bugs straight keys and was slightly confused by calling it the external keyer input :-) Do you have a bug you can try on that input? - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Brian Alsop Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:13 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3- external keyer problems KEY IN for external keyer (paddle connected to external keyer, keyer output keying FET to key in) , PADDLE connected to paddle input for internal keyer. 73 de Brian/K3KO Darwin, Keith wrote: I'm confused. Which key jack are you plugging into? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] N2CQ Contest Calendar: Jan 15 - Feb 16, 2009
~ N2CQ QRP CALENDAR JANUARY 16 - February 16, 2009 ~ 80 METER FOXHUNT (CW) *** QRP Contest *** Each Tuesday to Mar 24 9 PM to 10:29 PM Eastern Time USA Info: http://www.qrpfoxhunt.org/ ~ 40 METER FOXHUNT (CW) *** QRP Contest *** Each Thursday to March 26 9 PM to 10:29 PM Eastern Time USA Info: http://www.qrpfoxhunt.org/ ~ LZ OPEN CONTEST (CW 80M/40M) ...QRP Category Jan 17, z to 0600z Rules: http://www.lzopen.com/lz-open-contest/rules/rules.htm ~ North American QSO Party (SSB) (100w max. QRP Entries Noted) Jan 17, 1800z to Jan 18, 0600z Rules: http://www.ncjweb.com/naqprules.php ~ ARRL January VHF Sweepstakes ... Low Power Category Jan 17, 1900z to Jan 19, 0400z Rules: http://www.arrl.org/contests/rules/2009/jan-vhf-ss.html ~ Run For The Bacon (CW) *** QRP Contest *** EST: Jan 18, 9:00 PM to 11:00 PM UTC: Jan 19, 0200z to 0400z Rules: http://www.fpqrp.com/ ~ NAQCC Straight Key/Bug 160m Sprint *** QRP CONTEST! *** EST: Jan 22, 8:30 PM to 10:30 PM UTC: Jan 23, 0130z to 0330z Rules: http://www.arm-tek.net/~yoel/contests.html ~ CQ WW 160-Meter DX Contest (CW) ... QRP Category Jan 23, 2200z to Jan 25, 2200z Rules: http://cq-amateur-radio.com/160_Rules_2009.pdf ~ REF (French) CW Contest Jan 24, 0600z to Jan 25, 1800z Rules: http://concours.ref-union.org/reglements/actuels/reg_cdfhfdx.pdf ~ BARTG RTTY Sprint Contest Jan 24, 1200z to Jan 25, 1200z Rules: http://www.bartg.org.uk/contests/SprintRules2009.pdf ~ UBA DX Contest (Belgian) (SSB) ... QRP Category Jan 24, 1300z to Jan 25, 1300z Rules: http://www.uba.be/hf_contests/rules/ubatest_dx.pdf ~ SPAR Winter Field Day (Any Mode) Jan 24, 1700z to Jan 25, 1700z Rules: http://www.spar-hams.org/contests/winterfd/index.php?pg=2 ~ MQFD Monthly Sprint (CW/PH/Digital) *** QRP Contest *** Jan 24, 1800z to 2200z Rules: http://w2agn.net/mqfdsprint.html ~ SKCC Sprint (Straight Key CW) ... QRP Awards Jan 28, z to 0200z Rules: http://www.skccgroup.com/sprint/sks/ ~ EPC WW DX Contest (BPSK125) ... 10W LP Jan 31, 1200z to Feb 1, 1200z Rules: http://www.epcwwdx.srars.org/index.php/contest-rules.html ~ QRP ARCI Fireside Sprint (SSB) ...QRP Contest! Feb 1, 2000z to 2359z Rules: http://www.qrparci.org/ ~ Adventure Radio Spartan Sprint (CW) ... QRP Contest! EST: Feb 2, 9 PM to 11 PM (First Monday each month) UTC: Feb 3, 0200z to 0400z Rules: http://arsqrp.pbwiki.com:80/Spartan+Sprints ~ Vermont QSO Party (CW/Ph/Dig) Feb 7, z to Feb 8, 2400z Rules: http://www.w1bd.org/ ~ 10-10 Int. Winter Phone QSO Party ... QRP Category Feb 7, 0001z to Feb 8, 2359z Rules: http://www.ten-ten.org/Forms/QSOPartyRulesRevised.pdf ~ Black Sea Cup International (CW/SSB) ... QRP Category Feb 7, 1200z to 2400z Rules: http://bscc.ucoz.ru/index/0-21 ~ Worldwide Peace Messenger Cities (CW/SSB)... Feb 7, 1200z to Feb 8, 1200z Rules: http://www.s59dcd.si/english/ ~ Minnesota QSO Party (All) ... QRP Category Feb 7, 1400z to 2359z Rules: http://www.w0aa.org/ ~ FYBO Winter QRP Field Day (CW/SSB) ... QRP Contest! Feb 7, 1400z to 2400z Rules: http://www.azscqrpions.org ~ AGCW Straight Key QSO Party (CW 80M) ... QRP Category Feb 7, 1600z to 1900z Rules: http://www.agcw.org/en/?Contests:Straight_Key_Party ~ British Columbia QSO Challenge (CW/PH/Dig) ... QRP Category Feb 7, 1600z to Feb 8, 0359z Rules: http://www.deltaamateurradio.com/BC%20QSO%20CONTEST.htm ~ New Mexico QSO Party (CW/PH/Dig) ... QRP Category
Re: [Elecraft] Desktop microfone for the K3
Hi Werner: The Yaesu MD-1 desk microphone works just fine on my K3 with excellent transmit audio and plenty of it. So I would think that you need to make sure that your setting on the K3 are correct for it. I have also used the Shure 444D desk mic with very good transmit audio as well. 73 from Fern VE7GZ - Original Message - From: Dr. Werner Furlan fur...@gmx.net To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 6:08 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Desktop microfone for the K3 I'd like to add a desktop microphone to my K3. I have left a Yaesu MD-1 from earlier times, and made a cable for the K3. It works, but the modulation is rather low volume in comparison to the Heil HC-5 I use. What about the Kenwood microphones, like the MC-60 or MC-80? Are there any recommendations or experiences with these types? thank you for your input! 73! de Werner OE9FWV -- Early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. PGP-Key: http://www.qsl.net/oe9fwv/furlan.asc Fone +43 5522 75013 Fax +43 5522 75013 15 Mobile +43 664 6340014 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1893 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 6:59 AM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3- external keyer problems
Brian, At the KEY input to the K3, it is the low level voltage that is important, not the high level. My guess is that your external keyer is not going to a low enough level to fully discharge the .001 capacitor that is on the key in line inside the K3. Do your keyers have a resistor between the keying output line and the K3? If so, that could cause slow keying. It would be best to evaluate the low level during a string of dots with a DC input on an oscilloscope to see if the low level shifts after a couple dots. If it does look for any cause of resistance (or added capacitance) between the keying driver and the K3 input. 73, Don W3FPR Brian Alsop wrote: Hi Keith, Unfortunately no bug. Now that you mention it, it kind of sounds like a bug when one holds the dit side down for a long time. After a number of dots, each gets to sound longer and longer and more slurred. For what it is worth, the computer interface to KEY in uses an NPN transistor. The keyer uses a 2n7000 FET. The FET on state has a really low voltage drop. K3 Key terminals have an open circuit voltage of 4.7 V (would have expected closer to 5). The K3 displays a power-in voltage of 13.7V. Have removed all connections to the K3 but earphones and KEY. Problem does not go away. Wierd. 73 de Brian/K3KO ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K2 battery leak warning
I just replaced the battery in my K2 yesterday. I am pretty sure that the last time I replaced it was spring/summer of 2007 so I expected to get more life from it. When I removed the battery I discovered that the negative terminal and crimp on connector were badly corroded. After removing the battery I could see a small amount of seepage around the joint where the top of the battery case is joined to the main body of the case. Fortunately it was a very small leak and does not seem to have caused any damage other than corrosion of the negative terminal. After replacing the battery and the damaged terminal I figured I better check the voltage that was coming in to the rig. I had always set my power supply so the K2 voltage display showed 13.7V as recommended in the manual. What I discovered though is that when my DMM shows 13.7V on the P3 connector on the RF board the K2 voltage display is only indicating 13.4V. P3 is after the blocking diode so the K2 voltage display shoul;d agree. I assume that over time I cooked the battery and caused the leak. So anybody who leaves their K2 battery float charging may want to open up the rig and verify the actual voltage at P3 instead of relying on the K2 display. (Or set the input voltage to the K2 to 14.1V to 14.2V as recommended in the KBT2 manual.) 73 Bob KG3F ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 battery leak warning
In a recent message, Bob Boehmer bboeh...@gmail.com wrote ... When I removed the battery I discovered that the negative terminal and crimp on connector were badly corroded. I assume that over time I cooked the battery and caused the leak. So anybody who leaves their K2 battery float charging may want to open up the rig and verify the actual voltage at P3 instead of relying on the K2 display. (Or set the input voltage to the K2 to 14.1V to 14.2V as recommended in the KBT2 manual.) Bob - Someone may correct me on this, but I believe the original 14.1 to 14.2V specified was when early models of the K2 used an SB530 Shottky diode for polarisation protection. This was later changed to a 95SQ015 which provided a lower voltage drop. With that diode I run my K2 with 14.0V at the power input terminals and my original battery lasted for seven years with no leakage problems. 73 -- David G4DMP Leeds, England, UK -- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K2 U12 MC1350 or SMT1A
Hi, I'm working on the assembly for S/N 5684. I don't appear to have the SMT1A replacement board for U12, but I have the DIP MC1350. Should I request a replacement part for this non-RoHS part, or just go ahead and stuff this DIP? I assume they perform the same function, but just wanted to make sure there isn't some other reason to replace the part with the SMT1A board. Thanks. -john W4PAH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Sequencer keying with K3/XV-144 without rigblaster?
To make this all simpler I normally run the transverter as the LAST box to be sent to transmit (ensuring that RF switching is disabled!). So Rig-sequencer-Tx relay-PA bias-transverter. This may hot switch the transverter, but that's rarely a problem in reality with the low powers and enables the system to be built with all the normal VOX / Semi-break in facilities on the radio working normally. Now just need to find out why some of the Amphenol N-type relays used for high power switching have got into a state that can take up to 0.5 second to release after volts have gone. Maybe they've got magnetised - they were originally 115V AC relays re-wound for 28V DC, but one has already bitten the dust from the consequent hot switching where the sequencer didn't figure on needing to take 1 second to changeover! 73, Andy, G4PIQ --- Brian Alsop wrote : I guess I'm missing the boat on this discussion. I thought all high power VHF ops used an external sequencer board that did the following type of thing. RX to xmit: 1) Bypass the mast mounted preamp, wait a bit 2) Put the amp in the tx mode, wait a bit 3) Put the xvtr in the tx mode, wait a bit 4) inhibit the RF output from the rig until 1-3 are complete. With a relay based system 1-3 could easily be 60ms or more. Going to receive does a similar thing --i.e. unkeying the various components with delays.. You're not going to get his set of multiple delays from the K3. There are external sequencer boards available as kits for about $20. The K3 has an inhibit line for such use. And yes, the big guns do have difficulty in the bang-bang contest mode. You call them once and occasionally get the comment, I'm not getting your call, my sequencing hasn't completed. 73 de Brian/K3KO___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 U12 MC1350 or SMT1A
John, Either will work just fine, so unless your are overly concerned about the lead contribution to the environment when you finally send your K2 to the landfill (not many ham radio items go there), just install the DIP MC1350. The SMT1A is actually a surface mount MC1350 mounted on a carrier board - that part has become difficult to procure in the DIP package. 73, Don W3FPR John Shadle wrote: Hi, I'm working on the assembly for S/N 5684. I don't appear to have the SMT1A replacement board for U12, but I have the DIP MC1350. Should I request a replacement part for this non-RoHS part, or just go ahead and stuff this DIP? I assume they perform the same function, but just wanted to make sure there isn't some other reason to replace the part with the SMT1A board. Thanks. -john W4PAH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Sequencer keying with K3/XV-144 without rigblaster?
Andy Cook, G4PIQ wrote: Now just need to find out why some of the Amphenol N-type relays used for high power switching have got into a state that can take up to 0.5 second to release after volts have gone. Maybe they've got magnetised - they were originally 115V AC relays re-wound for 28V DC, but one has already bitten the dust from the consequent hot switching where the sequencer didn't figure on needing to take 1 second to changeover! This happens when you spot weld the contacts with excessive RF. How did you manage that with only 400W? Other possibilities are you are not giving the pulse of energy from the coil somewhere to go and so the field can not collapse as quickly as you might wish. Then the spring might have worn out, they don't have indefinite life. If they really are magnetised, swap the coil windings round. At least it is not the other way around, 1/2 second to stitch to TX would defeat the sequencing. I agree it can take some time and 20mS is not enough 60mS should be enough, if not it is going to make rapid fire operation difficult, Half a second is a long time in contests. Mike -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Sequencer-keying-with-K3-XV-144-without-rigblaster--tp2158916p2169207.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 U12 MC1350 or SMT1A
John Shadle wrote: I'm working on the assembly for S/N 5684. I don't appear to have the SMT1A replacement board for U12, but I have the DIP MC1350. Should I request a replacement part for this non-RoHS part, or just go ahead and stuff this DIP? The DIP will work identically. 73, Wayne N6KR --- http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] FS: KDSP2 DSP Filter for the K2 -Built
Hello, For Sale: KDSP2 filter for the K2. Excellent build by a technician with 35 years experience (me). 100% operational. No issues. Ready to plug and play. $189 Please contact me directly (eyekazoo(at)gmail.com) -Jerry w7anm ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 U12 MC1350 or SMT1A
Go ahead and use the 1350. 73, Eric WA6HHQ _..._ -Original Message- From: John Shadle sha...@katzenfisch.com Date: Friday, Jan 16, 2009 8:18 am Subject: [Elecraft] K2 U12 MC1350 or SMT1A To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Hi, I'm working on the assembly for S/N 5684. I don't appear to have the SMT1A replacement board for U12, but I have the DIP MC1350. Should I request a replacement part for this non-RoHS part, or just go ahead and stuff this DIP? I assume they perform the same function, but just wanted to make sure there isn't some other reason to replace the part with the SMT1A board. Thanks. -john W4PAH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Sequencer keying with K3/XV-144 without rigblaster?
When you changed from ac to dc did you add an anti-stiction part to the magnetic junction? If not, that's why it takes so long to separate. It' just a copper or brass shim to keep the parts at a slight distance. David G3UNA - Original Message - From: ANDY COOK To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sequencer keying with K3/XV-144 without rigblaster? To make this all simpler I normally run the transverter as the LAST box to be sent to transmit (ensuring that RF switching is disabled!). So Rig-sequencer-Tx relay-PA bias-transverter. This may hot switch the transverter, but that's rarely a problem in reality with the low powers and enables the system to be built with all the normal VOX / Semi-break in facilities on the radio working normally. Now just need to find out why some of the Amphenol N-type relays used for high power switching have got into a state that can take up to 0.5 second to release after volts have gone. Maybe they've got magnetised - they were originally 115V AC relays re-wound for 28V DC, but one has already bitten the dust from the consequent hot switching where the sequencer didn't figure on needing to take 1 second to changeover! 73, Andy, G4PIQ --- Brian Alsop wrote : I guess I'm missing the boat on this discussion. I thought all high power VHF ops used an external sequencer board that did the following type of thing. RX to xmit: 1) Bypass the mast mounted preamp, wait a bit 2) Put the amp in the tx mode, wait a bit 3) Put the xvtr in the tx mode, wait a bit 4) inhibit the RF output from the rig until 1-3 are complete. With a relay based system 1-3 could easily be 60ms or more. Going to receive does a similar thing --i.e. unkeying the various components with delays.. You're not going to get his set of multiple delays from the K3. There are external sequencer boards available as kits for about $20. The K3 has an inhibit line for such use. And yes, the big guns do have difficulty in the bang-bang contest mode. You call them once and occasionally get the comment, I'm not getting your call, my sequencing hasn't completed. 73 de Brian/K3KO -- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Desktop microfone for the K3
What about the Kenwood microphones, like the MC-60 or MC-80? Werner, I'm using a stock Kenwood MC-34S with good results. Terry, W0FM K3/100 #474 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Digital mode Identification
Dave - Thanks very much. Most helpful. On 1/15/09, Dave Gilbert d...@ab7e.com wrote: I've searched around for similar information and so far this is the best I've found: http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp/Modes/index.htm It shows waterfall, spectrum, and audio samples of most of the common digital modes (listed at the left of the page). The comparison comments at the bottom left link are interesting as well.. 73, Dave AB7E Original Message Subject: [Elecraft] Digital mode Identification From: Frank MacDonell kd8...@gmail.com Date: Thu, January 15, 2009 4:54 pm To: Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net How can a newbie to digital modes identify signal types on the waterfall? Tnx. Frank KD8FIP -- Frank KD8FIP ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Cool version 6 - posted.
At 06:20 PM 01/15/09, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: This is getting a little off topic. Lets end the thread now and take the discussion off list to direct email. An alternative for Off Topic posts and continuation of threads that may not be appropriate here is located at http://www.zerobeat.net/smf/ You'll need to create and account using your callsign so I know you're not a spammer. 73, Thom k3hrn ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
Julian, I did my test for output over a range of frequencies with 4-5 bars of ALC and as I stated, the power varied by about 2dB. If ALC is being applied at the DSP that is just plain wrong in my opinion, as it cannot compensate for the variations in gain at different frequencies due to the shape of the filter. This is incorrect ... the purpose of ALC is not to control the shape of the passband across the SSB filter it is to prevent a SSB signal in total from overdriving the power amplifiers. The purpose of equalization is to flatten the filter response. ALC and EQ are not the same ... you need to use the proper tool for the job. No ALC system can compensate for the filter ripple. ALC is nothing more than a system of compression (or clipping). In general, ALC does not act until the drive reaches the threshold. In a traditional transceiver ALC is derived from grid (or base/gate) current in the final amplifier and there is no ALC action until the grid/base/gate current begins to rise. To obtain a constant power output, the user must adjust the drive level as the drive to the final amplifier changes based on modulating frequency. If the user does not adjust for changes in gain across the transmit passband, operating just before the onset of ALC with one frequency will result in significant ALC on another modulating frequency ... conversely, operating with (audio) drive at the threshold of ALC where the filter losses are least will result in significant lowering of power where the filter ripple is the greatest. The effect is NO DIFFERENT than the variation of output power with modulating frequency in the K3. If the DSP based ALC in the K3 keeps the level of the 15 KHz RF constant, the output power will vary with frequency based on the response of the IF filter. The purpose of ALC is not power level control. It's purpose is to keep the drive level below the point at which any stage in the RF chain begins to saturate (compress or clip). The responsibility of output power control with any radio is the power level control (PWR in the K3). However, the K3 PWR control is not a closed loop control. The power control simply sets the 15 KHz drive based on the system gain (with filter loss) at the single frequency used when performing the power calibration. If you want to tune by clicking around in the waterfall instead of using the tuning knob you need to do one of two things ... use EQ to compensate for the filter response or design your software to compensate by adjusting the audio level with frequency. In short, you are asking both the ALC and PWR controls to do something that they are not designed to do. The ONLY WAY to maintain a constant output level on any transceiver is to use a closed loop power control. Closed loop power controls are not appropriate to SSB systems because time constants sufficient to maintain constant power across the IF passband for digital operation would result in frequency dependent clipping and/or compression in voice operation. The only ways to maintain constant levels across the passband are by using an IF filter with very low ripple or by generating RF on frequency 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:53 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes Don Wilhelm-4 wrote: The K3 suggested ALC level for digital modes is *4* bars. The 6 bar indication is for SSB (actually listed as 5-7 bars). According to the K3 FAQ page - when the indication is at 5 bars, the DSP ALC is just being tickled. For data modes, ALC action is not desirable, thus the 4 bar recommendation. Up to (but not including) the 5th bar on the ALC meter, the meter is indicating something similar to VU units rather than ALC action - the 5th bar is the onset of ALC. I did my test for output over a range of frequencies with 4-5 bars of ALC and as I stated, the power varied by about 2dB. If ALC is being applied at the DSP that is just plain wrong in my opinion, as it cannot compensate for the variations in gain at different frequencies due to the shape of the filter. When ALC is applied at the output, as in SSB mode, the effect is a flat response. As long as only a little ALC is used there is no adverse effect on transmitted IMD when using PSK31. I think the dangers of using ALC when running PSK31 have been wildly overstated in some quarters. I have always operated PSK31 using just enough audio drive to give a bar or two of ALC and now having the KK7UQ meter I have been able to measure the effect of this when using an FT-817, K2 and K3. On the FT-817 some worsening of the IMD is noticeable but the signal is still clean, typically -27 or -28dB. On the K2 one
Re: [Elecraft] Sequencer keying with K3/XV-144 without rigblaster?
Lance, This is the only proper way for serious VHF stations. Use your feedback contact of the final RX/TX coaxial relay (which is most probably mounted in the top of your tower) as a final go for the RF out of the K3 by using the TX-Inhibit Line. 73's Evert PA2KW Cu -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 23:31 To: w...@q.com Cc: Elecraft Discussion List Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sequencer keying with K3/XV-144 without rigblaster? Lance, It has already been thought of and included in the K3 - see below. I am not sure if you are referring to the KEY OUT jack on the back of the K3 or the PTT jack. The PTT jack is an input - one would plug the footswitch into it, or alternately use the PTT on the microphone or the PTT from the RS-232 input. KEY OUT becomes active as soon as the PTT is activated - there is also a KEYOUT-LP signal on the ACC connector that acts the same as the KEY OUT jack except with a limit of 10 ma. The K3 normally transmits RF after the KEY OUT is active by the amount of time entered into the CONFIG menu TX DLY parameter - that provides a maximum of 20 ms RF delay. For those who need more time that that, there is the TX INH function that can be configured for pin 7 of the ACC connector - it can be configured for either TX INH LO=Inh or HI=Inh. This signal will prevent the K3 from transmitting RF until the inhibit signal goes away. See the K3 Owner's manual page 19. 73, Don W3FPR Lance Collister wrote: Hi Dave, You raise an interesting questionmaybe that is the elegant solution to integrating the K3 into old kluge-like VHF stations with lots of coaxial relays, homebrew amplifiers, etc. PTT output jack on the rear of the K3 could optionally be configured as a sequencer itself, so it would close an adjustable amount of time (up to a second) BEFORE any RF would be permitted to be generated after the rig is put into XMIT by either the microphone/footswicth or the serial port PTT lines. Certainly, this option would not be selected by those who want to work QSK! But they would simply not choose the option. If this option were stored by band, you could have a built-in sequencer only on certain bands, and QSK on other bands! With such an option, you would never have to worry about blowing anything up, regardless of how the K3 incoming PTT line itself was keyed ;-) What do you think, Elecraft? VY 73, Lance ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote: the purpose of ALC is not to control the shape of the passband across the SSB filter it is to prevent a SSB signal in total from overdriving the power amplifiers. I agree with you. As applied to a voice SSB signal or even a wideband data mode that is completely correct. But in practise with a narrowband signal like PSK31 the effect will be to keep the output RF at the same power, whatever audio frequency the signal is being generated at, because only a narrow band of frequencies is being used at any one time. If the filter response varies across the passband, which it does, the ALC will vary the amount of gain used to try to keep the RF level to the amount it is set at, whether the signal is being generated near the edge of the passband or at the center. This is important to the PSK31 operator who does not want to tune every signal to the center of the passband sweet spot before hitting TX in order to get maximum power out. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-pwr-out-on-digimodes-tp2163956p2169671.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Sequencer keying with K3/XV-144 without rigblaster?
Hi Andy, Yes, you are right - it is hard to imagine that it would take a whole second to transfer all the relays. I just thought if there were a way to provide more of a delay before enabling the RF output, it might as well go up to a second so you could accommodate mechanical coaxial switches as well as fast relays. For everything I have here, a half a second would probably work fine. Yep, running power on VHF is sure not like running QSK during an HF contest, and you cannot hope to call weak DX in 20 ms! But for EME, most everything is done in one minute sequences, so speed is not usually that big an issue. Still, the beauty about the K3 is that it is so flexible that it has the capability to respond to so many far ranging applications! GL and VY 73, Lance ANDY COOK wrote: To make this all simpler I normally run the transverter as the LAST box to be sent to transmit (ensuring that RF switching is disabled!). So Rig-sequencer-Tx relay-PA bias-transverter. This may hot switch the transverter, but that's rarely a problem in reality with the low powers and enables the system to be built with all the normal VOX / Semi-break in facilities on the radio working normally. Now just need to find out why some of the Amphenol N-type relays used for high power switching have got into a state that can take up to 0.5 second to release after volts have gone. Maybe they've got magnetised - they were originally 115V AC relays re-wound for 28V DC, but one has already bitten the dust from the consequent hot switching where the sequencer didn't figure on needing to take 1 second to changeover! 73, Andy, G4PIQ --- Brian Alsop wrote : I guess I'm missing the boat on this discussion. I thought all high power VHF ops used an external sequencer board that did the following type of thing. RX to xmit: 1) Bypass the mast mounted preamp, wait a bit 2) Put the amp in the tx mode, wait a bit 3) Put the xvtr in the tx mode, wait a bit 4) inhibit the RF output from the rig until 1-3 are complete. With a relay based system 1-3 could easily be 60ms or more. Going to receive does a similar thing --i.e. unkeying the various components with delays.. You're not going to get his set of multiple delays from the K3. There are external sequencer boards available as kits for about $20. The K3 has an inhibit line for such use. And yes, the big guns do have difficulty in the bang-bang contest mode. You call them once and occasionally get the comment, I'm not getting your call, my sequencing hasn't completed. 73 de Brian/K3KO ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA QTH: DN27UB TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT Tuner Basics
John, Your K3 auto tune optionwithin the K3 and the SB200 should take care of any amplifier input mismatches found on the turned circuits within the grounded grid amplifier. In more technical terms, the impedance range of the KAT3 should be adequate. Having a second tuner in between the K3 and the amplifier doesn't help. In fact, there are a number of reasons it will make the combination not work to it's fullest efficiency. ie network losses. The reason why you are seeing varying VSWR readings is most likely due to changes in coax line length between the K3 and amplifier, with and without the additional tuner. Reading the K3 manual it says the internal auto tuner can handle a fairly wide VSWR range. If you find that some of the bands are problematic due to the internal tuner not able to tune out the VSWR into the amp, then I'd attempt tuning the powdered iron core (one per band) on the amp's input circuit. I am a new user on the learning curve with my K3 S/N 2270 and this is my first post. It's an exciting way to stay young. If you'd like to make a schedule on 80 meter ssb to talk about K3 details I'd be delighted. In fact, I'd like to establish a Northeast OT'ers User's Group to meet on 80 meter schedules. What do you or anyone else who is interested in meeting on 80 meters within day time, (8AM) mid week availability think about this idea? Pre retired baby boomers and their children would be welcome too. 73, John, W1QS ex N6JL, K1KTH and KA7AB John LawrencePond Brook FarmNorth Waldoboro, Maine 04572207-615-2824 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Sequencer keying with K3/XV-144 without rigblaster?
Hello Evert, Yes, I think I may rig up something to use the K3 TX-Inhibit line when I take my K3 on DXpedition to E51 in 2 months. Good idea! TNX and 73, Lance Evert Bakker (PA2KW) wrote: Lance, This is the only proper way for serious VHF stations. Use your feedback contact of the final RX/TX coaxial relay (which is most probably mounted in the top of your tower) as a final go for the RF out of the K3 by using the TX-Inhibit Line. 73's Evert PA2KW Cu -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 23:31 To: w...@q.com Cc: Elecraft Discussion List Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sequencer keying with K3/XV-144 without rigblaster? Lance, It has already been thought of and included in the K3 - see below. I am not sure if you are referring to the KEY OUT jack on the back of the K3 or the PTT jack. The PTT jack is an input - one would plug the footswitch into it, or alternately use the PTT on the microphone or the PTT from the RS-232 input. KEY OUT becomes active as soon as the PTT is activated - there is also a KEYOUT-LP signal on the ACC connector that acts the same as the KEY OUT jack except with a limit of 10 ma. The K3 normally transmits RF after the KEY OUT is active by the amount of time entered into the CONFIG menu TX DLY parameter - that provides a maximum of 20 ms RF delay. For those who need more time that that, there is the TX INH function that can be configured for pin 7 of the ACC connector - it can be configured for either TX INH LO=Inh or HI=Inh. This signal will prevent the K3 from transmitting RF until the inhibit signal goes away. See the K3 Owner's manual page 19. 73, Don W3FPR Lance Collister wrote: Hi Dave, You raise an interesting questionmaybe that is the elegant solution to integrating the K3 into old kluge-like VHF stations with lots of coaxial relays, homebrew amplifiers, etc. PTT output jack on the rear of the K3 could optionally be configured as a sequencer itself, so it would close an adjustable amount of time (up to a second) BEFORE any RF would be permitted to be generated after the rig is put into XMIT by either the microphone/footswicth or the serial port PTT lines. Certainly, this option would not be selected by those who want to work QSK! But they would simply not choose the option. If this option were stored by band, you could have a built-in sequencer only on certain bands, and QSK on other bands! With such an option, you would never have to worry about blowing anything up, regardless of how the K3 incoming PTT line itself was keyed ;-) What do you think, Elecraft? VY 73, Lance ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA QTH: DN27UB TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
If the filter response varies across the passband, which it does, the ALC will vary the amount of gain used to try to keep the RF level to the amount it is set at, whether the signal is being generated near the edge of the passband or at the center. This is your fundamental misunderstanding of ALC. Traditional ALC does NOT (and can not) increase gain - it can only DECREASE gain to bring the grid/base/gate current down to the level at which the final amplifier is not being overdriven. DSP based ALC is similar, it can only adjust the modulator (DSP) output to the level determined to be appropriate at the single point in the IF filter at which the power calibration (5W/50W) was made. ALC (and power control) can not compensate for differences in gain across the passband - in other words, non-flat response. If you wanted to compensate for that non-flat response, it would be necessary to calibrate the power (5W/50W) at regular intervals across the passband and build a gain vs. frequency table. The DSP would then need to measure the frequency of any narrow band modulation and adjust the assumed gain of the power control circuit based on the gain of the IF chain at that frequency. This is important to the PSK31 operator who does not want to tune every signal to the center of the passband sweet spot before hitting TX in order to get maximum power out. The PSK31 operator must adjust his drive (mic gain or power control) with ANY transmitter if he changes his subcarrier frequency. Even with conventional ALC if the drive is set to the ALC threshold when operating at the point of maximum gain, the output will be reduced when operating at other places in the passband (particularly when operating at the edges of the passand). Try this experiment with your FT-817 ... set the power level to the maximum, turn off any compression, set your soundcard to 1700 Hz and the level for 15 Watts out of the FT-817 with NO ALC. Now, without making any other changes measure the power output with a 200 Hz tone and a 3200 Hz tone. Is it identical AT ALL THREE points? 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 12:52 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote: the purpose of ALC is not to control the shape of the passband across the SSB filter it is to prevent a SSB signal in total from overdriving the power amplifiers. I agree with you. As applied to a voice SSB signal or even a wideband data mode that is completely correct. But in practise with a narrowband signal like PSK31 the effect will be to keep the output RF at the same power, whatever audio frequency the signal is being generated at, because only a narrow band of frequencies is being used at any one time. If the filter response varies across the passband, which it does, the ALC will vary the amount of gain used to try to keep the RF level to the amount it is set at, whether the signal is being generated near the edge of the passband or at the center. This is important to the PSK31 operator who does not want to tune every signal to the center of the passband sweet spot before hitting TX in order to get maximum power out. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-pwr-out-on-digimodes-tp2163956p2169671.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K3 Band Data Output
How are K3s being shipped regarding the Band Data output? Are new radios including the pull-up resistors, or are they still all being shipped with open drains? Phil - AD5X ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data Output
On page: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_app_notes.htm Included on All K3s shipped on Dec 10, 2008 and later. (Rev B KIO3 Digital board) 73, doug From: Phil Debbie Salas dpsa...@tx.rr.com Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:06:17 -0600 How are K3s being shipped regarding the Band Data output? Are new radios including the pull-up resistors, or are they still all being shipped with open drains? Phil - AD5X ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
Joe W4TV wrote: Closed loop power controls are not appropriate to SSB systems because time constants sufficient to maintain constant power across the IF passband for digital operation would result in frequency dependent clipping and/or compression in voice operation. Most digimode programs include a tune button which outputs a tone at the selected output; psk's idle is a simple two-tone. One option (and I expressed this a year or so ago to the Elecraft folks) would be to offer an IMD calibration at the IF level for a known two-tone response, to determine whether at least that stage is being overdriven. The DSP should have a fairly good idea at that point. If the two-tone signal used is a PSK idle tone at the selected AF on the waterfall display, a rig control command to read the IMD calculated would be just peachy. Digimode programs could then have a dedicated button to send an idle tone, read the IMD, and adjust the power. Regular communications could then commence. A further advantage of this approach is that the actual power out could be measured during this calibration period from either the built-in wattmeter or the rig control command, and reported in real time, and thus the knob could (or again, rig control) could be used to achieve the output power desired by the user. Elecraft's response was that perhaps the IMD calculation could be done on the computer side; I'm not clear whether the new monitor out function makes that possible or not, but if it does, that would be an approach that could be made to work today, modulo the limitation that the IMD calculated from the sound card will be a little worse due to the additional ADC of the sound card, whereas a digital report from the K3 IF would be accurate. (And not to mention that an overdriven line input would result in a drastically wrong IMD, but that's likely to have been already taken care of by the digimode RX setup.) In summary, I believe it's possible to provide closed loop control for both power and drive/IMD readings for modes such as PSK, but not during a QSO where the signal characteristics vary; instead provide enough CAT commands and signal quality measurements from the K3 RF OUT and IF OUT stages so that and digmode authors are willing to provide a TX CAL tune button. (Doing in the k3 utility wouldn't be helpful because the precise audio settings used by the digimode program for TX are important.) I'm willing to step up and try this for fldigi. Leigh/WA5ZNU ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data Output
New K3s shipping now have the pull ups. 73, Eric WA6HHQ Phil Debbie Salas wrote: How are K3s being shipped regarding the Band Data output? Are new radios including the pull-up resistors, or are they still all being shipped with open drains? Phil - AD5X ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data Output
Do they also have the negative ALC included? Jerry W4UK At 19:53 1/16/2009, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: New K3s shipping now have the pull ups. 73, Eric WA6HHQ Phil Debbie Salas wrote: How are K3s being shipped regarding the Band Data output? Are new radios including the pull-up resistors, or are they still all being shipped with open drains? Phil - AD5X ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K3 N1MM -- KDVR3
Hi Elecrafters, How does one connect N1MM Logger to the K3 so you can execute a pre-recorded memory in the DVR from Logger, and still have the normal rig mic override the DVR when necessary? Anyone care to share? 73, John W9LHG ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote: This is your fundamental misunderstanding of ALC. Traditional ALC does NOT (and can not) increase gain - it can only DECREASE gain to bring the grid/base/gate current down to the level at which the final amplifier is not being overdriven. DSP based ALC is similar, it can only adjust the modulator (DSP) output to the level determined to be appropriate at the single point in the IF filter at which the power calibration (5W/50W) was made. ALC (and power control) can not compensate for differences in gain across the passband - in other words, non-flat response. If you wanted to compensate for that non-flat response, it would be necessary to calibrate the power (5W/50W) at regular intervals across the passband and build a gain vs. frequency table. The DSP would then need to measure the frequency of any narrow band modulation and adjust the assumed gain of the power control circuit based on the gain of the IF chain at that frequency. No, I do not misunderstand what ALC does. Perhaps I am just not very good at explaining what I am trying to say. I realize that ALC can only reduce the gain. That is why it is necessary to set the audio drive level so that you get a little bit of ALC across the whole passband range that you want to use. Then, the ALC will be able to reduce the gain by the necessary amount so that the RF output is constant across that passband range. The PSK31 operator must adjust his drive (mic gain or power control) with ANY transmitter if he changes his subcarrier frequency. Even with conventional ALC if the drive is set to the ALC threshold when operating at the point of maximum gain, the output will be reduced when operating at other places in the passband (particularly when operating at the edges of the passand). No. This misses the whole point of the convenience of click and call operating with programs like Digipan and HRD. I never suggested that the drive must be set to the ALC threshold when operating at the point of maximum gain. It must be set so that you get some ALC across the whole of the passband you wish to use (probably corresponding to no more than the -3dB bandwidth points, beyond that and the steepness of the filter slopes would cause unacceptable distortion of even a narrowband signal such as PSK31.) Then you will achieve constant power across that range, because the ALC will be able to apply varying amounts of gain reduction to achieve that constant power level. The K2 can do this. Why can't the K3? Try this experiment with your FT-817 ... set the power level to the maximum, turn off any compression, set your soundcard to 1700 Hz and the level for 15 Watts out of the FT-817 with NO ALC. Now, without making any other changes measure the power output with a 200 Hz tone and a 3200 Hz tone. Is it identical AT ALL THREE points? The FT-817 is not capable of 15W. But that is beside the point. What would this experiment prove? I know as well as you do that it would not be identical. That's why I am saying that some form of level control needs to be in operation across the whole of the passband you wish to use. A small amount of ALC with a slow time constant will not harm the IMD in PSK31 mode. The K2 demonstrates this. In SSB mode the K3 ALC provides the level control I am describing. If I turn CMP off and switch the audio source to LINE IN it works exactly as I expect it to work in data modes (apart from not disabling EQ, which is a different issue.) In DATA A mode it does not do this, so you must constantly tweak the drive level whenever you change frequency if you wish to transmit a specific power level. If this is how the K3 is supposed to operate then I shall put it up for sale right away, because it is not something that people who use data modes a lot want to do. (Well, perhaps there are some, because if I have learned nothing else from my participation in ham forums like this, it is that some people actually like doing things the hard way.) - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-pwr-out-on-digimodes-tp2163956p2170806.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K3 Build Experience
Ordered my K3 Dec, 29th. I was told an assembled unit would be another week or so longer than a kit. That made sense, so I ordered the kit and saved a few bucks. I'm glad I did. I received the kit Jan. 14th. Built it the afternoon of the 14th and morning of the 15th. It took about 8-9 hours, about what was estimated on the Elecraft web site. Toughest part - finding the tiny #2 bolts in a separate envelope. I inventoried the hardware on the RF board, but didn't on the others as there were far fewer items in the bags for the front panel, etc. 2nd Toughest - the effort to mount the KPIO3 board for the 100 watt module. 3rd Toughest - Mating the front panel. The rest was easy and remember that items 2 and 3 were not as hard as finding the tiny #2 hardware :-) Goofs - Mount the plastic cover over the LCD display with the bevel out. Take off, re-do... On the rear bottom cover, remember 1/4 bolts are bigger that 3/16 bolts. Take off, re-do... Assembly is pretty easy as long as you take your time and make sure that the bolt you are trying to put in is the correct size. Everything worked great form the start. Un-intuitive operational command - this one stumped me. You can't transmit in CW unless the VOX is on. (There are exceptions, separate PTT or XMIT button, but you can't just hit the paddle to transmit.) I'm very pleased with the build experience and hope my notes will be a help to others. 73 de K1ESE John ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU wrote: Most digimode programs include a tune button which outputs a tone at the selected output; psk's idle is a simple two-tone. One option (and I expressed this a year or so ago to the Elecraft folks) would be to offer an IMD calibration at the IF level for a known two-tone response, to determine whether at least that stage is being overdriven. The DSP should have a fairly good idea at that point. If the two-tone signal used is a PSK idle tone at the selected AF on the waterfall display, a rig control command to read the IMD calculated would be just peachy. Digimode programs could then have a dedicated button to send an idle tone, read the IMD, and adjust the power. Regular communications could then commence. A further advantage of this approach is that the actual power out could be measured during this calibration period from either the built-in wattmeter or the rig control command, and reported in real time, and thus the knob could (or again, rig control) could be used to achieve the output power desired by the user. Elecraft's response was that perhaps the IMD calculation could be done on the computer side; I'm not clear whether the new monitor out function makes that possible or not, but if it does, that would be an approach that could be made to work today, modulo the limitation that the IMD calculated from the sound card will be a little worse due to the additional ADC of the sound card, whereas a digital report from the K3 IF would be accurate. (And not to mention that an overdriven line input would result in a drastically wrong IMD, but that's likely to have been already taken care of by the digimode RX setup.) In summary, I believe it's possible to provide closed loop control for both power and drive/IMD readings for modes such as PSK, but not during a QSO where the signal characteristics vary; instead provide enough CAT commands and signal quality measurements from the K3 RF OUT and IF OUT stages so that and digmode authors are willing to provide a TX CAL tune button. (Doing in the k3 utility wouldn't be helpful because the precise audio settings used by the digimode program for TX are important.) I'm willing to step up and try this for fldigi. Leigh/WA5ZNU I'm not sure that what you are suggesting is entirely possible. Surely IMD depends on a lot of other variables that happen after the IF, such as output power level, supply voltage level and SWR? I don't see how the K3 could actively monitor IMD without building functionality akin to the KK7UQ meter into it. In any case, there are other modes besides PSK31 to which the IMD issue does not apply, but the problem of varying power levels across the passband still do. I think this whole issue has come about because the K3 is trying to be too clever and prevent people from transmitting a PSK31 signal with poor IMD. If someone is dumb enough to put too much audio into the input and use way too much ALC then that is their lookout. We are supposed to be trained operators who understand what we are doing. If we make mistakes, we learn. The K3 doesn't try to stop people winding the mic gain up too much when using SSB. Why should it act any differently just because the DATA mode is selected? DATA mode is just SSB. Its only purpose is to facilitate selection of a different input source, disabling compression, and disabling passband equalization. Nobody expects it to behave in any other respect differently from how it handles SSB. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-pwr-out-on-digimodes-tp2163956p2170877.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Mic Gain Changing
Hi Bob and All, I got home and did USB NCS duties tonite on MARS so I have a little more information. It seems that when I first start transmitting even at a MIC gain of 25, I only initially get about 30 to 60 Watts of power out. If the Mic gain is 15 it is more like 35 Watts. If I keep the Mic gain set at 25 and just start talking while starting the net the power out keeps increasing for about 30 seconds until it is at about 100 Watts. The ALC is about 6 bars. At this point I can turn the Mic gain down to 2 and still get 100 Watts out and have an ALC of 6 bars. This is all done when the compression is set to 15 and is never changed. If is funny but we had to go from the operating frequency at about 3.2 MHz to about 2.3 MHz tonite. We did not have propagation at 2.3 MHz so we immediately went back to 3.2 MHz. I had to press the tune button to put a signal out at 5 W to tune the manual tuner as I always do. The Mic gain was still set to 25. However when I started talking I was putting out only about 35 W, so I just kept talking and the power rose to about 100 W again in about 30 seconds. Once again when I dropped the Mic gain down to 2, I still had 6 bars of ALC and 100 Watts out. Thats why I said that the ALC thing with the K3 was not critical and seemed to be self adjusting. Its just that I don't think my K3 #2080 is operating correctly. By the way I still get raving reports. I am heard with the K3 much better than the TS480. But I never used the processor with the TS480 so its apples and oranges until I do more tests with the TS480. Steve, W2MY -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net]on Behalf Of Bob Cunnings Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:14 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mic Gain Changing Are you maintaining a constant ALC indication of 5-7 bars at each gain setting? Or is the ALC indication falling as you lower the gain setting? Bob NW8L ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K3 build: seeking advice re: KRX4 and DVR
HI all... I am helping a neighbor assemble his K3. I have put a number of these together now, but none with the DVR and/or subRX. I think the DVR can go in with the initial build (comments)? Do you suggest that the base K3 be completed first and then the subRX be installed, or should I do it all at once? Maybe the official K3 advice is in the box. It just arrived at my qth tonight and all we did so far was an inventory. Thanks! de Doug KR2Q ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
One option (and I expressed this a year or so ago to the Elecraft folks) would be to offer an IMD calibration at the IF level for a known two-tone response, to determine whether at least that stage is being overdriven. Unfortunately, the PA will be overdrive far before the IF. Doing any kind of IF IMD calibration will provide almost no benefit since the IF appears to be clean at almost any level (measured on the XVTR IF output). Digimode programs could then have a dedicated button to send an idle tone, read the IMD, and adjust the power. Digimode programs can already be programmed to send an idle signal and read the Power Meter (BG get) if the display is set to the proper mode. That would allow the software to adjust for a specific power level. However, that requires K3 specific software. Its also very possible to adjust the drive for a specific ALC level - again using BG if the meter is set to read ALC instead of Power. However, the important parameter in the K3 is probably power output rather than ALC level. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: Leigh L. Klotz, Jr. WA5ZNU [mailto:le...@wa5znu.org] Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 2:18 PM To: li...@subich.com Cc: 'Julian, G4ILO'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes Joe W4TV wrote: Closed loop power controls are not appropriate to SSB systems because time constants sufficient to maintain constant power across the IF passband for digital operation would result in frequency dependent clipping and/or compression in voice operation. Most digimode programs include a tune button which outputs a tone at the selected output; psk's idle is a simple two-tone. One option (and I expressed this a year or so ago to the Elecraft folks) would be to offer an IMD calibration at the IF level for a known two-tone response, to determine whether at least that stage is being overdriven. The DSP should have a fairly good idea at that point. If the two-tone signal used is a PSK idle tone at the selected AF on the waterfall display, a rig control command to read the IMD calculated would be just peachy. Digimode programs could then have a dedicated button to send an idle tone, read the IMD, and adjust the power. Regular communications could then commence. A further advantage of this approach is that the actual power out could be measured during this calibration period from either the built-in wattmeter or the rig control command, and reported in real time, and thus the knob could (or again, rig control) could be used to achieve the output power desired by the user. Elecraft's response was that perhaps the IMD calculation could be done on the computer side; I'm not clear whether the new monitor out function makes that possible or not, but if it does, that would be an approach that could be made to work today, modulo the limitation that the IMD calculated from the sound card will be a little worse due to the additional ADC of the sound card, whereas a digital report from the K3 IF would be accurate. (And not to mention that an overdriven line input would result in a drastically wrong IMD, but that's likely to have been already taken care of by the digimode RX setup.) In summary, I believe it's possible to provide closed loop control for both power and drive/IMD readings for modes such as PSK, but not during a QSO where the signal characteristics vary; instead provide enough CAT commands and signal quality measurements from the K3 RF OUT and IF OUT stages so that and digmode authors are willing to provide a TX CAL tune button. (Doing in the k3 utility wouldn't be helpful because the precise audio settings used by the digimode program for TX are important.) I'm willing to step up and try this for fldigi. Leigh/WA5ZNU ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes
No, I do not misunderstand what ALC does. Perhaps I am just not very good at explaining what I am trying to say. I realize that ALC can only reduce the gain. That is why it is necessary to set the audio drive level so that you get a little bit of ALC across the whole passband range that you want to use. Then, the ALC will be able to reduce the gain by the necessary amount so that the RF output is constant across that passband range. Absolutely not! When conventional rigs are generating ALC their final amplifiers are ALREADY in compression and they are generating IMD in the PSK31 signal. PSK31 can not have ANY compression or clipping without causing increased IMD. Increasing the drive to the point that a comventional rig generates some level of ALC at all points virtually assures the generation of unacceptable IMD at most frequencies in the IF passband. The FT-817 is not capable of 15W. But that is beside the point. OK, do it at 5 watts ... What would this experiment prove? I know as well as you do that it would not be identical. That's why I am saying that some form of level control needs to be in operation across the whole of the passband you wish to use. That's my point exactly. The K3 does not provide level control across the passband it provides a constant output from the DSP modulator (15 KHz IF). A small amount of ALC with a slow time constant will not harm the IMD in PSK31 mode. Wrong! ANY COMPRESSION OR CLIPPING will effect the INTENTIONAL amplitude shaping in the PSK31 signal designed to prevent IMD and control the banwidth of the transmitted signal. So called IMD is the result of a non-linear amplitued response in the audio/IF/RF chain. PSK31 drive can be thought of as a signal that has been predistorted in such a way to cancel the modulation sidebands. If that (amplitude) predistortion is lost due to compression or clipping at any point in the transmitter chain, the result is the appearance of the normal modulation sidebands (known as IMD). -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 4:40 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 pwr out on digimodes Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote: This is your fundamental misunderstanding of ALC. Traditional ALC does NOT (and can not) increase gain - it can only DECREASE gain to bring the grid/base/gate current down to the level at which the final amplifier is not being overdriven. DSP based ALC is similar, it can only adjust the modulator (DSP) output to the level determined to be appropriate at the single point in the IF filter at which the power calibration (5W/50W) was made. ALC (and power control) can not compensate for differences in gain across the passband - in other words, non-flat response. If you wanted to compensate for that non-flat response, it would be necessary to calibrate the power (5W/50W) at regular intervals across the passband and build a gain vs. frequency table. The DSP would then need to measure the frequency of any narrow band modulation and adjust the assumed gain of the power control circuit based on the gain of the IF chain at that frequency. No, I do not misunderstand what ALC does. Perhaps I am just not very good at explaining what I am trying to say. I realize that ALC can only reduce the gain. That is why it is necessary to set the audio drive level so that you get a little bit of ALC across the whole passband range that you want to use. Then, the ALC will be able to reduce the gain by the necessary amount so that the RF output is constant across that passband range. The PSK31 operator must adjust his drive (mic gain or power control) with ANY transmitter if he changes his subcarrier frequency. Even with conventional ALC if the drive is set to the ALC threshold when operating at the point of maximum gain, the output will be reduced when operating at other places in the passband (particularly when operating at the edges of the passand). No. This misses the whole point of the convenience of click and call operating with programs like Digipan and HRD. I never suggested that the drive must be set to the ALC threshold when operating at the point of maximum gain. It must be set so that you get some ALC across the whole of the passband you wish to use (probably corresponding to no more than the -3dB bandwidth points, beyond that and the steepness of the filter slopes would cause unacceptable distortion of even a narrowband signal such as PSK31.) Then you will achieve constant power across that range, because the ALC will be able to apply varying amounts of gain reduction to achieve that constant power level. The K2 can do this. Why can't the K3? Try this experiment with
Re: [Elecraft] K3 build: seeking advice re: KRX4 and DVR
Two weeks ago I assembled my K3 ( serial 974 ) having waited until I received both my KRX3 and KDVR3 since I didn't want to have to keep removing and replacing the front panel to install each of them. I installed the KRX3 auxiliary DSP board on the main DSP board during the initial build as specified on pages 36 37 of the most recent assembly manual. While the K3 assembly manual doesn't make any mention of installing the KDVR3 during the original build ( hint hint for an errata ) since it mounts on the main DSP board I also mounted it when I mounted the KRX3 Auxiliary DSP board. The manual says to complete the initial assembly without installing the KPA3 or KRX3 ( page 61 62 ) due to essential tests and calibration procedures before the KPA3 module is installed . I therefore completed the initial assembly only installing the KRX3 auxiliary DSP board the KDVR3 board. I completed the tests and calibration procedures for the K3 and then installed the KPA3, did it's tests and calibration and then installed the KRX3. Since you don't need to remove the front panel to install the KRX3 the installation goes pretty quickly once you assemble the KRX3 shield install the KRX3 board inside it. While the wait for the KRX3 and then the KDVR3 was some 7 months from the time I received my KR100 kit I'm glad I waited as I put it together at one time with the minimal amount of disassembly and therefore the minimum amount of handling the circuit boards. PS. using a hint mentioned on the reflector, In installing the KPA3 I used a very small amount of Deoxit to lubricate the connectors on the RF board before mounting the KPAIO3 board and then lubricated the connectors on the KPAIO3 board as well before mounting the KPA3 module to the KPAIO3 board. Using this method both the KPAIO3 board and KPA3 module mounted with very little effort unlike many of the comments I've read from people who mounted the KPAIO3 board and KPA3 module Dry. I also did all of the recommended mods before starting assembly. I'm glad to say the build went perfectly with no missing parts and everything works 100%. So for me, waiting until I had everything necessary to complete the rig with all the options I wanted at one time was worth it. Al WB6HPF DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote: HI all... I am helping a neighbor assemble his K3. I have put a number of these together now, but none with the DVR and/or subRX. I think the DVR can go in with the initial build (comments)? Do you suggest that the base K3 be completed first and then the subRX be installed, or should I do it all at once? Maybe the official K3 advice is in the box. It just arrived at my qth tonight and all we did so far was an inventory. Thanks! de Doug KR2Q ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-build%3A-seeking-advice-re%3A-KRX4-and-DVR-tp2171758p2172245.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
