Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Digest, Vol 141, Issue 37

[Bob VE2AXO]

Bob VE2AXO
ve2...@videotron.ca


> On Jan 26, 2016, at 1:42 PM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
> 
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: K3S and WSJT-X (Joe Subich, W4TV)
>   2. Re: K3 with KIO3B and RMS Express (Joe Subich, W4TV)
>   3. Re: Filtering RFI from LED & flouresence Dimmer Switches
>  (Jim Brown)
>   4. Re: How to center K1's crystal filters? (cottersay)
>   5. Re: K3S and WSJT-X (Robert Nobis)
>   6. Linking VFO s (Dauer, Edward)
>   7. Re: K3S and WSJT-X (Joe Subich, W4TV)
>   8. new K2 (Oscar Castillo)
>   9. Re: Linking VFO s (Igor Sokolov)
>  10. Re: How to center K1's crystal filters? (Don Wilhelm)
>  11. Re: Linking VFO s (Gary)
>  12. Re: new K2 (Don Wilhelm)
>  13. Re: Linking VFO s (Gary)
>  14. [K3 Remote] Scrolling VFO B Message "UPDATE K3 UTILITY"
>  (Rick Tavan)
>  15. Re: Filtering RFI from LED & fluorescence Dimmer Switches
>  (Edward R Cole)
>  16. Re: Filtering RFI from LED & flouresence Dimmer Switches
>  (John Pitz)
>  17. Key out delay for end of TX? (Jim Miller)
>  18. Re: Key out delay for end of TX? (Bob McGraw K4TAX)
>  19. Re: Key out delay for end of TX? (Ken K3IU)
>  20. Re: Filtering RFI from LED & flouresence Dimmer Switches
>  (Craig Smith)
>  21. Re: Key out delay for end of TX? (Guy Olinger K2AV)
>  22. Re: Key out delay for end of TX? (Bob McGraw K4TAX)
>  23. Re: Filtering RFI from LED & flouresence Dimmer Switches
>  (Clay Autery)
>  24. Re: [K3 Remote] Scrolling VFO B Message "UPDATE K3   UTILITY"
>  (jbaumga...@aol.com)
>  25. Re: KRC2 not working after PA upgrade (Jack Brindle)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 22:09:32 -0500
> From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" 
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S and WSJT-X
> Message-ID: <56a6e36c.6030...@subich.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> 
> On 1/25/2016 9:37 PM, James Bennett wrote:
>> I may be out in left field here, although I've been using WSJT-X for
>> quite some time, but I keep the WSJT-X power slider at the max and
>> control my output power at the K3
> 
> I've always: 1) left the PWR slider in WSJT-X at 100%
>  2) set the Windows Volume Mixer "Device" slider for the
> sound card output being used at 70 - 80% (to keep the
> sound card in its linear range/minimum distortion)
>  3) adjusted the K3/K3S Audio input (Line In) for four
> bars of ALC
>  5) set the desired power level with the K3 PWR control
> 
> 73,
> 
>... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 22:14:28 -0500
> From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" 
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 with KIO3B and RMS Express
> Message-ID: <56a6e494.3080...@subich.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> 
>> The transmit light goes on but no power out and failure to
>> connect.
> 
> Are you seeing four bars of ALC?   It sounds like you do not
> have the audio levels set correctly.
> 
> Use DATA A, set MENU:MIC+LIN = OFF and MENU:MIC SEL=LINE IN.
> Set your software TX level at about 80%, set the Windows Volume
> Mixer for your sound card output "Speaker (USB Audio CODEC)" at
> 80%, adjust the K3/K3S Mic Gain for four bars of ALC and set the
> output power level using the PWR control.
> 
> 73,
> 
>... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
> On 1/25/2016 9:58 PM, Reed Bumgarner wrote:
>> I'm having trouble getting RMS Express to transmit. I've tried various
>> combinations of RTS PTT settings and am using the digital setting in the
>> RMS software. The transmit light goes on but no power out and failure to
>> connect.
>> Do I need to use port share software with the KIO3B?  Is there another
>> setting I'm overlooking?
>> Thanks for any insights.
>> Reed AA1RB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 19:25:47 -0800
> From: Jim Brown 
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Filtering RFI from LED & flouresence Dimmer
>   Switches
> Message-ID: <56a6e73b.20...@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> On Mon,1/25/2016 5:57 PM, David Ahrendts wrote:
>> Curious, does anyone have an example of LED noise recorded?
> 
> LEDs do NOT make noise. What makes noise is the 

Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[Russ Tobolic]

For the rope, try qualitynylonrope.com  I'm not sure if they have grey or brown 
but I bought a 500ft spool of 3/16"  black polyester for $42.  AND they have 
free shipping for orders over $25. Russ, N3CO

  From: Clay Autery 
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 4:58 AM
 Subject: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts
   
So, based on a brief survey today, my first "real" antenna will be a
nominally horizontal delta loop, while I save for and get construction
designs approved for my tower.  I'm seeking some specific parts and
"preferred" vendors:

1) 3 each, 3" / 75mm MINIMUM diameter "plastic" (UV resistant) hanging
pulley with swivel eye, sealed ball bearings, for cable/cord diameter of
3/16"
I don't see what I want readily available.  I can build them, but I'd
prefer to not have to.  Yes, 75mm minimum diameter to minimize loop wire
wear/hardening and maximize freedom of movement.

2) 500-1000' Dacron/Polyester cordage in grey, brown, OD green, black in
that order.

3) 500' nominal, 14 AWG, THHN stranded annealed copper, gray.

4) telescopic pole, preferably cable of free-standing with loop
attachment NLT 30' with minimal tip flex.  I can build this using
locally sourced materials, some drilling, welding of supplemental
retention nuts, and tapping, etc, but I'd prefer to get this up in the air.
Alternatively, I could provide counter loop guy(s).

The rest I can likely source locally.  If I wasn't trying to get
operational "with dispatch", I'd simply custom build the pulleys and
station point pole.  I may still do so.

__
Clay Autery
KG5LKV

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Re: [Elecraft] Competition from ICOM?

[Jerry Moore]

Regardless of the make/model/cost. I've not had a radio company yet to give
the quality and quantity of service that Elecraft has delivered to me
personally.
The day that radio costs get to the point of being disposable we'll see the
quality and quantity of support drop to primarily community and self help.

For me personally it's a pleasure to support Elecraft and their products
primarily because they are aggressive to engage me in resolving any issue I
may experience. I can't name any other company in my lifetime that's done
that. 

Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Michael Cozzi
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 8:02 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Competition from ICOM?



 Hi Bill,

 Thanks for posting.

 My hope is that the 7300 is an excellent radio- so that it drives the
price down for some of the radios I want to own. I'm not into the knobbed
radio tradition, so the 7300 isn't for me. But if it's great, we might see a
little price drop on other SDRs.

 That's my taske. (woops)

 Michael- KD8TUT

On 2/10/2016 6:57 AM, Bill wrote:
> The fact that I made a typo doe not effect the gist of the question. I 
> forgot - one has to be perfect to post here - otherwise all answers 
> will only knit pick the query and not address the question.
>
>
> __
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> cozzi...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: roofing filter configuration settings

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Filter bandwidth is defined by two points either across the top or at 
the knee of the filter.  If the knee is 250 Hz wide at the 3 dB points 
then measuring the 6 dB points may be 370 Hz wide.  So without the 
position of the filter where the measurement takes place, the number 
relating to bandwidth is inadequate to describe the filter.  There is 
really no standard with regard to filter measurements, thus the value is 
simply arbitrary.


Yes a given filter can be 250 Hz at the 3 dB points, can also be 370 Hz 
at the 6 dB points and also 500 Hz at the 18 dB points. Sowhat 
is the bandwidth of the filter?


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S, s/n 10163



On 2/10/2016 5:49 AM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote:

Hi Dick,

Just do it. If you need a certain bandwidth for a certain mode, use 
the narrowest roofer you have in there; just like in any other 
conventional transceiver.
So if you want 350Hz as bandwidth, use that 250 filter (which is 
actually 370). That's common sense.
Don't let the 250Hz tag on the filter fool you. They say they sell you 
250Hz, that's just not true. It should have stated 350Hz or so.


And in ham spirit: just try out different settings and decide what 
works best.


73
Arie PA3A

Op 10-2-2016 om 6:05 schreef Dick via Elecraft:

snip>
  The factory default roofing filter "configuration bandwidth" 
setting  is to
set the 250hz filter at a setting of "250".  Therefore, the 250hz 
roofing

filter will engage at the same time as the 250hz DSP filter.
However, since the 250hz roofing filter has an actual BW6 of 370hz,  
aren't

there times when it would be more beneficial to have  the "configuration
bandwidth" of the 250hz roofing filter set to 350 or  400?
I'm thinking this may be especially true when operating RTTY since the
average RTTY bandwidth is aprx. 370hz.  Perhaps there are times when  
this

would be beneficial when operating other modes as well?
  

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[Elecraft] Wanted (K1). kTS1 bracket.

[Wp4cw via Elecraft]

Looking for KTS1 bracket.  Contact off line. 209.601.5354



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[Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[Jon Zaimes]

I had been noticing some RFI on 12 meters for some time that I initially had
thought was power line noise. My use of 12 meters is seldom so it wasn't
very high up on the list of things to track.

When I was reminded of it while listening for VP8STI recently, I did a
little more snooping and realized it was actually splatter from a BC signal
at the low edge or slightly below the 12 meter band, centered about 24.89
mHz but audible from 24.87-24.91 mHz.

The distorted splatter is audible as a BC station, all talk, no music, but
not clear enough to decipher any ID. 

A few days ago I decided to try to pinpoint the source, so listened to the
RFI on one ear while scanning the AM and SW bands with the sub RX on the
other ear. But I could find no matches, though did find the splatter popped
up centered on these additional frequencies:

813 kHz
996 kHz
2.820 mHz
3.626 mHz
19.4 mHz

Figuring it must be an FM BC station, I started going through a list of
Delaware FM stations and on the third one, 91.1 mHz, matched the audio peaks
to my splatter. Further research determined this was a public radio station
with a transmitter on a commercial tower just a half mile west of my QTH!
While I of course was aware of the tower, which I knew to carry a couple of
cell sites and trunking radio, I hadn't been aware of the FM station, which
has apparently been there about 2 years. FCC data shows it has 2.1 KW ERP. I
had not had any previous issues with the site over the past 17 years.

Thinking that mixing or rectification might be produced either at the TX
site or on my own QTH, I decided to track with my mobile rig, an IC-706
MK2G. But there was NO evidence of the splatter on the 706.

Further debugging found that I was hearing the same splatter on BOTH of my
K3 radios (no. 3021 and 3057). Even when ALL cables are removed (only the
power lead connected). Grounding or ungrounding made no change. I tried the
radios on a battery but still had the RFI. Tried some ferrites on the power
lead but no change.


So I'm thinking now there's some internal mixing in the K3 going on, and
wondering if any others have had similar issues and found any solution.

73/Jon AA1K
Felton, Delaware
www.aa1k.us




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Re: [Elecraft] Competition from ICOM?

[Michael Cozzi]

Jerry,

So pleased you are happy with your purchase.

Michael- KD8TUT

On 2/10/2016 9:06 AM, Jerry Moore wrote:

Regardless of the make/model/cost. I've not had a radio company yet to give
the quality and quantity of service that Elecraft has delivered to me
personally.
The day that radio costs get to the point of being disposable we'll see the
quality and quantity of support drop to primarily community and self help.

For me personally it's a pleasure to support Elecraft and their products
primarily because they are aggressive to engage me in resolving any issue I
may experience. I can't name any other company in my lifetime that's done
that.

Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Michael Cozzi
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 8:02 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Competition from ICOM?



  Hi Bill,

  Thanks for posting.

  My hope is that the 7300 is an excellent radio- so that it drives the
price down for some of the radios I want to own. I'm not into the knobbed
radio tradition, so the 7300 isn't for me. But if it's great, we might see a
little price drop on other SDRs.

  That's my taske. (woops)

  Michael- KD8TUT

On 2/10/2016 6:57 AM, Bill wrote:

The fact that I made a typo doe not effect the gist of the question. I
forgot - one has to be perfect to post here - otherwise all answers
will only knit pick the query and not address the question.


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Re: [Elecraft] 160 meters RX antenna for K3 advice

[Jim Miller]

Regardless of which RX antenna you chose make sure to detune your transmit
antenna when receiving. This is especially important on a small lot where
adequate separation is not possible.

73

Jim ab3cv

On Monday, February 8, 2016, Joe Moffatt  wrote:

> I am needing advice from any with a K3 for 160 receive antennas.
>
> I just don't have room for Beverages, but I do have some backyard area.
> The average noise floor here is about S7 ok my Inverted L.
>
> Of course there are times it is much higher, but that is the norm.
>
> I am wondering if a small loop, EWE, flag etc is what you guys would
> recommend.
>
> I am looking for anyone with a relatively small space that could give
> advice.
>
> What would you do or have you done?
> Trying to get my 160  DXCC, and I'm half way there on 160.
>
> Joe
> AB5OR
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 4, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
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Re: [Elecraft] 160 meters RX antenna for K3 advice

[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

John,

The K3 receiver is switched to external RX antenna port (RX ANT IN on rear
panel) when you will select it by RX ANT button on the front panel. In that
case your K3 is transmitting to one of the main ANT1 or ANT2 ports and it
receiving from RX ANT IN port. ( we are talking about the main RX) 

73 - Petr, OK1RP



-
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[Elecraft] K3s Digital mode fun

[Jerry Moore]

I stared playing with my Raspberry Pi running Noobs Debian and FLDigi. I
have to say I'm very surprised and impressed at how well it works. I'm in
the process of buying the newer/faster version and a metal shielded case.
The Plan is to mount the RASPI case inside a rugged enclosure having a +12v
DC to DC converter to +5V AND my +12v powersupply mounted. The idea is to
have something I can take mobile. 
The only downside is the cost. For around $200 I could have a laptop that is
faster + does more but also weighs more and has more RFI.
The Pi with a used thrift store monitor, keyboard, mouse, I'm right at $100
without the DC-DC converter (running an AC linear converter aka Wall wart).

I need to think about it some more. The end goal is something around 30w
mobile without spending a fortune. The Raspberry Pi has been impressive so
far. 
Jer


Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3: roofing filter configuration settings

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

What the K3 contesters around here have done with the "400" and "250"
roofing filters is assign them 450 and 350. For someone running in a
contest, those are meaningful settings where is is *desired* to have the
DSP and roofing skirts concurrent for sharp adjacent channel rejection.

As to where those numbers came from they are the exact same filter
(different mounting) as the INRAD 8 MHz 400 and 250 Filters for the Yaesu
MP series. Those are part of a *cascade pair* with a 455 kHz IF filter that
give razor sharp performance at 400 and 250 bandwidth, where the pairs
really are 400 and 250. In the MP you put the "400" filters in the 500
slots. The MP skirts are still going down at -100 dB. I've never been able
to measure the bottom.

In any event, E's use of the 8 MHz as a roofing filter makes perfect sense.
When needing very narrow settings, the DSP skirts inside the 350 roofer's
skirts works well enough for me so far.

73, Guy K2AV



On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX 
wrote:

> Filter bandwidth is defined by two points either across the top or at the
> knee of the filter.  If the knee is 250 Hz wide at the 3 dB points then
> measuring the 6 dB points may be 370 Hz wide.  So without the position of
> the filter where the measurement takes place, the number relating to
> bandwidth is inadequate to describe the filter.  There is really no
> standard with regard to filter measurements, thus the value is simply
> arbitrary.
>
> Yes a given filter can be 250 Hz at the 3 dB points, can also be 370 Hz at
> the 6 dB points and also 500 Hz at the 18 dB points. Sowhat is the
> bandwidth of the filter?
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
> K3S, s/n 10163
>
>
>
>
> On 2/10/2016 5:49 AM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote:
>
>> Hi Dick,
>>
>> Just do it. If you need a certain bandwidth for a certain mode, use the
>> narrowest roofer you have in there; just like in any other conventional
>> transceiver.
>> So if you want 350Hz as bandwidth, use that 250 filter (which is actually
>> 370). That's common sense.
>> Don't let the 250Hz tag on the filter fool you. They say they sell you
>> 250Hz, that's just not true. It should have stated 350Hz or so.
>>
>> And in ham spirit: just try out different settings and decide what works
>> best.
>>
>> 73
>> Arie PA3A
>>
>> Op 10-2-2016 om 6:05 schreef Dick via Elecraft:
>>
>>> snip>
>>>   The factory default roofing filter "configuration bandwidth" setting
>>> is to
>>> set the 250hz filter at a setting of "250".  Therefore, the 250hz roofing
>>> filter will engage at the same time as the 250hz DSP filter.
>>> However, since the 250hz roofing filter has an actual BW6 of 370hz,
>>> aren't
>>> there times when it would be more beneficial to have  the "configuration
>>> bandwidth" of the 250hz roofing filter set to 350 or  400?
>>> I'm thinking this may be especially true when operating RTTY since the
>>> average RTTY bandwidth is aprx. 370hz.  Perhaps there are times when
>>> this
>>> would be beneficial when operating other modes as well?
>>>   >>   Dick- K9OM
>>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO]

Jon,

I had a similar problem with a 50 kW AM BC station a few miles away. It 
turned out to be strong enough to override the bias in the K3's T/R 
switch. I built a high-pass filter which solved the problem.


You would need a low-pass filter in your case. Make sure it can handle 
100w, because you must connect it in the main antenna path -- the RX 
in/out path is before the T/R switch.


73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 10 Feb 2016 16:58, Jon Zaimes wrote:

I had been noticing some RFI on 12 meters for some time that I initially had
thought was power line noise. My use of 12 meters is seldom so it wasn't
very high up on the list of things to track.

When I was reminded of it while listening for VP8STI recently, I did a
little more snooping and realized it was actually splatter from a BC signal
at the low edge or slightly below the 12 meter band, centered about 24.89
mHz but audible from 24.87-24.91 mHz.

The distorted splatter is audible as a BC station, all talk, no music, but
not clear enough to decipher any ID.

A few days ago I decided to try to pinpoint the source, so listened to the
RFI on one ear while scanning the AM and SW bands with the sub RX on the
other ear. But I could find no matches, though did find the splatter popped
up centered on these additional frequencies:

813 kHz
996 kHz
2.820 mHz
3.626 mHz
19.4 mHz

Figuring it must be an FM BC station, I started going through a list of
Delaware FM stations and on the third one, 91.1 mHz, matched the audio peaks
to my splatter. Further research determined this was a public radio station
with a transmitter on a commercial tower just a half mile west of my QTH!
While I of course was aware of the tower, which I knew to carry a couple of
cell sites and trunking radio, I hadn't been aware of the FM station, which
has apparently been there about 2 years. FCC data shows it has 2.1 KW ERP. I
had not had any previous issues with the site over the past 17 years.

Thinking that mixing or rectification might be produced either at the TX
site or on my own QTH, I decided to track with my mobile rig, an IC-706
MK2G. But there was NO evidence of the splatter on the 706.

Further debugging found that I was hearing the same splatter on BOTH of my
K3 radios (no. 3021 and 3057). Even when ALL cables are removed (only the
power lead connected). Grounding or ungrounding made no change. I tried the
radios on a battery but still had the RFI. Tried some ferrites on the power
lead but no change.


So I'm thinking now there's some internal mixing in the K3 going on, and
wondering if any others have had similar issues and found any solution.

73/Jon AA1K
Felton, Delaware
www.aa1k.us




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Re: [Elecraft] K3: roofing filter configuration settings

[j...@kk9a.com]

This sounds like a great idea. I used Inrad 250Hz filters in my Yaesu
FT1000MP Mark-V and they worked great on RTTY but I found the 250Hz
setting to be too narrow on my K3S.  Is anyone doing this?

John KK9A

RLVZ at aol.com RLVZ at aol.com
Wed Feb 10 00:05:30 EST 2016

A question regarding roofing filter "configuration bandwidth"  settings on
the K3:

The factory default roofing filter "configuration bandwidth" setting  is to
set the 250hz filter at a setting of "250".  Therefore, the  250hz roofing
filter will engage at the same time as the 250hz DSP filter.
However, since the 250hz roofing filter has an actual BW6 of 370hz,  aren't
there times when it would be more beneficial to have  the "configuration
bandwidth" of the 250hz roofing filter set to 350 or  400?
I'm thinking this may be especially true when operating RTTY since the
average RTTY bandwidth is aprx. 370hz.  Perhaps there are times when  this
would be beneficial when operating other modes as well?

Likewise, the 400hz roofer has a BW6 of 450hz, so perhaps for certain modes
 a "configuration bandwidth" setting of 450 rather than 400 could be
beneficial as well?

If anyone is wondering where I'm getting the term "configuration bandwidth"
 from, it's a configuration heading on the K3 Utility programs filter
configuration page.

Thanks & 73,

Dick- K9OM

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Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

A single frequency issue like that also can be handled with a simple trap. A
small coil with a capacitor across it tuned to the station's frequency at
91.1 MHz in series with the center conductor of your coax. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-


Jon,

I had a similar problem with a 50 kW AM BC station a few miles away. It
turned out to be strong enough to override the bias in the K3's T/R switch.
I built a high-pass filter which solved the problem.

You would need a low-pass filter in your case. Make sure it can handle 100w,
because you must connect it in the main antenna path -- the RX in/out path
is before the T/R switch.

73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 10 Feb 2016 16:58, Jon Zaimes wrote:
> I had been noticing some RFI on 12 meters for some time that I 
> initially had thought was power line noise. My use of 12 meters is 
> seldom so it wasn't very high up on the list of things to track.
>
> When I was reminded of it while listening for VP8STI recently, I did a 
> little more snooping and realized it was actually splatter from a BC 
> signal at the low edge or slightly below the 12 meter band, centered 
> about 24.89 mHz but audible from 24.87-24.91 mHz.
>
> The distorted splatter is audible as a BC station, all talk, no music, 
> but not clear enough to decipher any ID.
>
> A few days ago I decided to try to pinpoint the source, so listened to 
> the RFI on one ear while scanning the AM and SW bands with the sub RX 
> on the other ear. But I could find no matches, though did find the 
> splatter popped up centered on these additional frequencies:
>
> 813 kHz
> 996 kHz
> 2.820 mHz
> 3.626 mHz
> 19.4 mHz
>
> Figuring it must be an FM BC station, I started going through a list 
> of Delaware FM stations and on the third one, 91.1 mHz, matched the 
> audio peaks to my splatter. Further research determined this was a 
> public radio station with a transmitter on a commercial tower just a half
mile west of my QTH!
> While I of course was aware of the tower, which I knew to carry a 
> couple of cell sites and trunking radio, I hadn't been aware of the FM 
> station, which has apparently been there about 2 years. FCC data shows 
> it has 2.1 KW ERP. I had not had any previous issues with the site over
the past 17 years.
>
> Thinking that mixing or rectification might be produced either at the 
> TX site or on my own QTH, I decided to track with my mobile rig, an 
> IC-706 MK2G. But there was NO evidence of the splatter on the 706.
>
> Further debugging found that I was hearing the same splatter on BOTH 
> of my
> K3 radios (no. 3021 and 3057). Even when ALL cables are removed (only 
> the power lead connected). Grounding or ungrounding made no change. I 
> tried the radios on a battery but still had the RFI. Tried some 
> ferrites on the power lead but no change.
>
>
> So I'm thinking now there's some internal mixing in the K3 going on, 
> and wondering if any others have had similar issues and found any
solution.
>
> 73/Jon AA1K
> Felton, Delaware
> www.aa1k.us

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Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[Jon Zaimes]

Thanks for the tips.

Any filter likely would have to be inserted internally, since I am getting
this RFI without any antennas connected to the radios.Unless it is coming in
on the 12v power cord, which is still a possibility. I only tried a couple
ferrites and they may not have been the right one for choking out the FM
signal.

I did observe that I am only hearing it on the main receiver in my K3 that
has a sub RX, but not on the sub RX. Also, while checking for this, and then
going back to the main RX, the RFI signal on the main RX was greatly
reduced. Perhaps a relay contact issue. It is still just as strong as
previous on my other K3 (which has no sub RX). Toggling through PRE and ATT
did not eliminate it (though changed signal level as it would for any
signal).

73/Jon AA1K

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Vic
Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 10:20 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

Jon,

I had a similar problem with a 50 kW AM BC station a few miles away. It
turned out to be strong enough to override the bias in the K3's T/R switch.
I built a high-pass filter which solved the problem.

You would need a low-pass filter in your case. Make sure it can handle 100w,
because you must connect it in the main antenna path -- the RX in/out path
is before the T/R switch.

73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 10 Feb 2016 16:58, Jon Zaimes wrote:
> I had been noticing some RFI on 12 meters for some time that I 
> initially had thought was power line noise. My use of 12 meters is 
> seldom so it wasn't very high up on the list of things to track.
>
> When I was reminded of it while listening for VP8STI recently, I did a 
> little more snooping and realized it was actually splatter from a BC 
> signal at the low edge or slightly below the 12 meter band, centered 
> about 24.89 mHz but audible from 24.87-24.91 mHz.
>
> The distorted splatter is audible as a BC station, all talk, no music, 
> but not clear enough to decipher any ID.
>
> A few days ago I decided to try to pinpoint the source, so listened to 
> the RFI on one ear while scanning the AM and SW bands with the sub RX 
> on the other ear. But I could find no matches, though did find the 
> splatter popped up centered on these additional frequencies:
>
> 813 kHz
> 996 kHz
> 2.820 mHz
> 3.626 mHz
> 19.4 mHz
>
> Figuring it must be an FM BC station, I started going through a list 
> of Delaware FM stations and on the third one, 91.1 mHz, matched the 
> audio peaks to my splatter. Further research determined this was a 
> public radio station with a transmitter on a commercial tower just a half
mile west of my QTH!
> While I of course was aware of the tower, which I knew to carry a 
> couple of cell sites and trunking radio, I hadn't been aware of the FM 
> station, which has apparently been there about 2 years. FCC data shows 
> it has 2.1 KW ERP. I had not had any previous issues with the site over
the past 17 years.
>
> Thinking that mixing or rectification might be produced either at the 
> TX site or on my own QTH, I decided to track with my mobile rig, an 
> IC-706 MK2G. But there was NO evidence of the splatter on the 706.
>
> Further debugging found that I was hearing the same splatter on BOTH 
> of my
> K3 radios (no. 3021 and 3057). Even when ALL cables are removed (only 
> the power lead connected). Grounding or ungrounding made no change. I 
> tried the radios on a battery but still had the RFI. Tried some 
> ferrites on the power lead but no change.
>
>
> So I'm thinking now there's some internal mixing in the K3 going on, 
> and wondering if any others have had similar issues and found any
solution.
>
> 73/Jon AA1K
> Felton, Delaware
> www.aa1k.us
>
>
>
>
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> k2vco@gmail.com
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[Jim Brown]

On Wed,2/10/2016 4:41 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Clay,

You should be able to find suitable pulleys and cord at a marine 
supply store.


Pulleys yes. Cord at a marine store will be expensive.  Here's a link to 
the company that makes great antenna rope that is resold by several 
large ham vendors. 3/16-in is enough for strength, but 5/16-in is easier 
to grip if you need to pull it to put a lot of tension on it.


http://www.synthetictextilesinc.com/supportham.html

I would recommend using hard drawn copper for the wire rather than 
THHN.  You can find THHN at your local DIY store.  For hard drawn 
copper, look at The Wireman www.thewireman.com.


The only issue with THHN is that it stretches if under load. I have high 
dipoles under about 100# tension, and I have to trim them every few 
years. Another way to do hard drawn copper is to buy #8 bare copper at 
your local big box store and stretch it yourself.  Cut a few hundred 
foot length, tie one end to a tree or telephone pole, the other end to a 
trailer hitch, and pull VERY slowly until it breaks. The result is hard 
drawn copper that is 15-20% longer.


Before you commit resources to a loop, take a look at the antenna 
planning applications notes on my website.   k9yc.com/publish.htm


In general, low horizontal antennas have poor efficiency. Antennas that 
lack common mode chokes at the feedpoint are noisy on RX, and it's not 
practical to choke most non-resonant antennas. If ground conductivity is 
good in your area, a roof-mounted multi-band vertical could be an 
excellent choice.  Study the FCC map. To choose a vertical, study the 
N0AX/K7LXC report on their measurements of the performance of a dozen or 
so HF verticals. Available from Champion Radio Products. Well worth the 
$35 or so that it costs. While you're there, also buy the report on 
tri-band Yagis -- you'll benefit when buying something to put on that 
tower when you get around to it. This work was done about 15 years ago, 
but the laws of physics don't change. :)  N0AX is now editor of the ARRL 
Handbook and the ARRL Antenna Book -- he's a fine engineer who really 
knows his stuff.


https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/m3-ground-conductivity-map

73, Jim K9YC


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[Elecraft] Competition from ICOM?

[Dauer, Edward]

I agree fully with Jerry (his message below).  Good service costs money, which 
can be supported only through service-based charges or product revenues.  
Including service costs in product pricing acts as a form of 
distributed-premium insurance for all of us.  So, while in my view Elecraft 
products aren't cheap by any means, for me the net value has been and continues 
to be outstanding.

I also agree with Jerry's statement that this level of service is nearly 
unique.  All around us consumer companies attempt to cast the service burden on 
the customer - self-checkout at supermarkets is one example, self-checkin at 
airline counters is another, pump-your-own gas, and so on.  The apotheosis of 
this trend came for me when on a United Airlines flight the passengers were 
asked to clean out the seat back pockets to tidy the aircraft for the next 
flight of passengers.  This, from an airline that no longer gives us peanuts 
(either literally or metaphorically.)

I remember a sign I once saw in a high-end telescope shop: "Buy the best first 
and cry only once."  Amen.

Ted, KN1CBR


Message: 7
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 09:06:43 -0500
From: "Jerry Moore" >
To: >
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Competition from ICOM?
Message-ID: 
<030d01d1640c$460605c0$d2121140$@carolinaheli.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Regardless of the make/model/cost. I've not had a radio company yet to give
the quality and quantity of service that Elecraft has delivered to me
personally.
The day that radio costs get to the point of being disposable we'll see the
quality and quantity of support drop to primarily community and self help.

For me personally it's a pleasure to support Elecraft and their products
primarily because they are aggressive to engage me in resolving any issue I
may experience. I can't name any other company in my lifetime that's done
that.

Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB


Edward A. Dauer
Dean Emeritus and Professor Emeritus of Law
University of Denver

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Re: [Elecraft] K3s Digital mode fun

[Ian - Ham]

Jerry,

This setup sounds interesting. I recently bought the most recent RaspPi and
thought about using it to replace my laptop for portable use. However, KVM
considerations keep me on the laptop for that purpose. How do you plan to
handle those needs for your mobile RaspPi implementation?

Thanks and 73,

--Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
km4ik@gmail.com
10-10 #74624, North Georgia Chapter #2038
PODXS 070 #1962
K3# 281, P3 #688, KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry
Moore
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 9:17 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3s Digital mode fun

I stared playing with my Raspberry Pi running Noobs Debian and FLDigi. I
have to say I'm very surprised and impressed at how well it works. I'm in
the process of buying the newer/faster version and a metal shielded case.
The Plan is to mount the RASPI case inside a rugged enclosure having a +12v
DC to DC converter to +5V AND my +12v powersupply mounted. The idea is to
have something I can take mobile. 
The only downside is the cost. For around $200 I could have a laptop that is
faster + does more but also weighs more and has more RFI.
The Pi with a used thrift store monitor, keyboard, mouse, I'm right at $100
without the DC-DC converter (running an AC linear converter aka Wall wart).

I need to think about it some more. The end goal is something around 30w
mobile without spending a fortune. The Raspberry Pi has been impressive so
far. 
Jer


Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.




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---
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Re: [Elecraft] 160 meters RX antenna for K3 advice

[Mike Furrey]

In suburbia Houston, I was fortunate to have some nice very tall pine trees in 
which I had an inverted L with one elevated radial (up 20') bent to fit the 60' 
x 90' lot. It was fed through a ferrite bead balun. Power output was 600 watts. 
The rx antenna was a K9AY and one side of the rx antenna was about 6' from the 
radial! UGH! I 1) used rx protection; 2) decoupled the tx antenna by  a relay 
in the coax at the 1/4 wavelength point; 3) used ferrite bead chokes on the 
feed line of the rx antenna, at the antenna and at the rig. 
The K9AY loop has a broad rx pattern so when I set it up, it was orientated for 
the noise source to be in the null.

I tried a magnetic type loop and it seemed to work ok but the "AY" loop was 
better BUT I could play with diversity reception and occasionally that made the 
difference between hearing and making a Q.

My ON4UN low band handbook is highly dog-eared and I did manage over 150 
countries at that QTH (now I am in the country).
GL es 73, Mike WA5POK 

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 9:11 AM, Jim Miller  
wrote:
 

 Regardless of which RX antenna you chose make sure to detune your transmit
antenna when receiving. This is especially important on a small lot where
adequate separation is not possible.

73

Jim ab3cv

On Monday, February 8, 2016, Joe Moffatt  wrote:

> I am needing advice from any with a K3 for 160 receive antennas.
>
> I just don't have room for Beverages, but I do have some backyard area.
> The average noise floor here is about S7 ok my Inverted L.
>
> Of course there are times it is much higher, but that is the norm.
>
> I am wondering if a small loop, EWE, flag etc is what you guys would
> recommend.
>
> I am looking for anyone with a relatively small space that could give
> advice.
>
> What would you do or have you done?
> Trying to get my 160  DXCC, and I'm half way there on 160.
>
> Joe
> AB5OR
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 4, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
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Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

An electrical 1/4 wavelength of coax as an open stub at the FM 
frequency, connected using a T at the receiver input, will notch the FM 
TX signal.  It won't attenuate other frequencies across the ham bands 
including 6M.  Plus one can transmit with the stub arrangement in place.


73
Bob, K4TAX



On 2/10/2016 10:13 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

A single frequency issue like that also can be handled with a simple trap. A
small coil with a capacitor across it tuned to the station's frequency at
91.1 MHz in series with the center conductor of your coax.

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-


Jon,

I had a similar problem with a 50 kW AM BC station a few miles away. It
turned out to be strong enough to override the bias in the K3's T/R switch.
I built a high-pass filter which solved the problem.

You would need a low-pass filter in your case. Make sure it can handle 100w,
because you must connect it in the main antenna path -- the RX in/out path
is before the T/R switch.

73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 10 Feb 2016 16:58, Jon Zaimes wrote:

I had been noticing some RFI on 12 meters for some time that I
initially had thought was power line noise. My use of 12 meters is
seldom so it wasn't very high up on the list of things to track.

When I was reminded of it while listening for VP8STI recently, I did a
little more snooping and realized it was actually splatter from a BC
signal at the low edge or slightly below the 12 meter band, centered
about 24.89 mHz but audible from 24.87-24.91 mHz.

The distorted splatter is audible as a BC station, all talk, no music,
but not clear enough to decipher any ID.

A few days ago I decided to try to pinpoint the source, so listened to
the RFI on one ear while scanning the AM and SW bands with the sub RX
on the other ear. But I could find no matches, though did find the
splatter popped up centered on these additional frequencies:

813 kHz
996 kHz
2.820 mHz
3.626 mHz
19.4 mHz

Figuring it must be an FM BC station, I started going through a list
of Delaware FM stations and on the third one, 91.1 mHz, matched the
audio peaks to my splatter. Further research determined this was a
public radio station with a transmitter on a commercial tower just a half

mile west of my QTH!

While I of course was aware of the tower, which I knew to carry a
couple of cell sites and trunking radio, I hadn't been aware of the FM
station, which has apparently been there about 2 years. FCC data shows
it has 2.1 KW ERP. I had not had any previous issues with the site over

the past 17 years.

Thinking that mixing or rectification might be produced either at the
TX site or on my own QTH, I decided to track with my mobile rig, an
IC-706 MK2G. But there was NO evidence of the splatter on the 706.

Further debugging found that I was hearing the same splatter on BOTH
of my
K3 radios (no. 3021 and 3057). Even when ALL cables are removed (only
the power lead connected). Grounding or ungrounding made no change. I
tried the radios on a battery but still had the RFI. Tried some
ferrites on the power lead but no change.


So I'm thinking now there's some internal mixing in the K3 going on,
and wondering if any others have had similar issues and found any

solution.

73/Jon AA1K
Felton, Delaware
www.aa1k.us

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Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[Phil Kane]

On 2/10/2016 7:19 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:

> You would need a low-pass filter in your case. Make sure it can handle
> 100w, because you must connect it in the main antenna path -- the RX
> in/out path is before the T/R switch.

Using a low-pass filter on the output of an HF transmitter/transceiver
should be Job Number One - then again, I'm from the old school where
preventing Tennessee Valley Indians (TVI) was a real problem that hams
were concerned about.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[Nels Nelsen]

Copper is fine for conductivity but:

multistrand copper coated steel

is longer lasting. Just remember this when you start trouble shooting
strange swr in a couple of years. Copper breaks so easy.Go to the
Wireman.com for some good wire.

   NE7LS



On Feb 10, 2016 1:59 AM, "Clay Autery"  wrote:
>
>
>
> 3) 500' nominal, 14 AWG, THHN stranded annealed copper, gray.
>
> 4)

   n_n
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Re: [Elecraft] Competition from ICOM?

[Jerry Moore]

Yep, I'm saving up for the subRX and 2 filters (2.8 upgrade and the 400hz). 

Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Michael Cozzi
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 9:25 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Competition from ICOM?


 Jerry,

 So pleased you are happy with your purchase.

 Michael- KD8TUT

On 2/10/2016 9:06 AM, Jerry Moore wrote:
> Regardless of the make/model/cost. I've not had a radio company yet to 
> give the quality and quantity of service that Elecraft has delivered 
> to me personally.
> The day that radio costs get to the point of being disposable we'll 
> see the quality and quantity of support drop to primarily community and
self help.
>
> For me personally it's a pleasure to support Elecraft and their 
> products primarily because they are aggressive to engage me in 
> resolving any issue I may experience. I can't name any other company 
> in my lifetime that's done that.
>
> Jerry Moore
> CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
> AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
> http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
> An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, 
> and Patriotic.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of 
> Michael Cozzi
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 8:02 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Competition from ICOM?
>
>
>
>   Hi Bill,
>
>   Thanks for posting.
>
>   My hope is that the 7300 is an excellent radio- so that it 
> drives the price down for some of the radios I want to own. I'm not 
> into the knobbed radio tradition, so the 7300 isn't for me. But if 
> it's great, we might see a little price drop on other SDRs.
>
>   That's my taske. (woops)
>
>   Michael- KD8TUT
>
> On 2/10/2016 6:57 AM, Bill wrote:
>> The fact that I made a typo doe not effect the gist of the question. 
>> I forgot - one has to be perfect to post here - otherwise all answers 
>> will only knit pick the query and not address the question.
>>
>>
>> __
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>> cozzi...@gmail.com
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> je...@carolinaheli.com
>
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> cozzi...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Competition from ICOM?

[Jim Brown]

On Wed,2/10/2016 5:01 AM, Michael Cozzi wrote:
My hope is that the 7300 is an excellent radio- so that it drives the 
price down for some of the radios I want to own. 


From my perspective, it seems like the cost of radios is driven 
primarily by what it costs to build, sell, (and with some manufacturers, 
support them). This is clearly Elecraft's biz philosophy -- prices are 
determined by those costs, and Elecraft minimizes sales costs by selling 
direct to as much of the world as practical.


Radios will get cheaper when they get cheaper to build and sell. That 
can happen when new technology makes them less expensive to build, but 
it can also happen as quality is reduced (the bottom of the barrel 
Yaesu, ICOM, and direct sampling rigs are great examples).


My advice is that if you want to spend less for a rig, look for a top 
quality used rig that's a generation or two old. My K3s were the first 
new rigs I bought in nearly 30 years; prior to that, I used rigs like a 
TS850, Omni V, and FT1000MP that I bought used, all for a fraction of 
their initial cost. Today, a used TS590 would be a great choice, or if 
you're a bit more flush, a used K3.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[N2TK, Tony]

In the Caribbean the sun and salt spray gives short life to most wires. I
bought on eBay  several years ago stranded silver-solder tinned copper wire
with a Teflon coating. It doesn't seem to have stretched much and the Teflon
coating is holding up very well. I used #14 on 160M and #12 on 80M. Here in
NY I use #20 for receive antennas.

So, I guess it depends on your climate what works best and what is the best
value.

GL.
N2TK, Tony 

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Nels
Nelsen
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 1:37 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

Copper is fine for conductivity but:

multistrand copper coated steel

is longer lasting. Just remember this when you start trouble shooting
strange swr in a couple of years. Copper breaks so easy.Go to the
Wireman.com for some good wire.

   NE7LS



On Feb 10, 2016 1:59 AM, "Clay Autery"  wrote:
>
>
>
> 3) 500' nominal, 14 AWG, THHN stranded annealed copper, gray.
>
> 4)

   n_n
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Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO]

I didn't notice that you said you get it with no antenna. That does make 
it more complicated.


The fact that you get it on the main but not the sub points to the T/R 
switch, since the sub receiver does not go through the T/R switch if the 
sub is set to AUX to use either the non-transmit antenna or the BNC 
input. If you don't know, turn on the sub and hold BSET -- you will see 
either MAIN or AUX.


73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 10 Feb 2016 19:10, Jon Zaimes wrote:

Thanks for the tips.

Any filter likely would have to be inserted internally, since I am getting
this RFI without any antennas connected to the radios.Unless it is coming in
on the 12v power cord, which is still a possibility. I only tried a couple
ferrites and they may not have been the right one for choking out the FM
signal.

I did observe that I am only hearing it on the main receiver in my K3 that
has a sub RX, but not on the sub RX. Also, while checking for this, and then
going back to the main RX, the RFI signal on the main RX was greatly
reduced. Perhaps a relay contact issue. It is still just as strong as
previous on my other K3 (which has no sub RX). Toggling through PRE and ATT
did not eliminate it (though changed signal level as it would for any
signal).

73/Jon AA1K

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Vic
Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 10:20 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

Jon,

I had a similar problem with a 50 kW AM BC station a few miles away. It
turned out to be strong enough to override the bias in the K3's T/R switch.
I built a high-pass filter which solved the problem.

You would need a low-pass filter in your case. Make sure it can handle 100w,
because you must connect it in the main antenna path -- the RX in/out path
is before the T/R switch.

73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 10 Feb 2016 16:58, Jon Zaimes wrote:

I had been noticing some RFI on 12 meters for some time that I
initially had thought was power line noise. My use of 12 meters is
seldom so it wasn't very high up on the list of things to track.

When I was reminded of it while listening for VP8STI recently, I did a
little more snooping and realized it was actually splatter from a BC
signal at the low edge or slightly below the 12 meter band, centered
about 24.89 mHz but audible from 24.87-24.91 mHz.

The distorted splatter is audible as a BC station, all talk, no music,
but not clear enough to decipher any ID.

A few days ago I decided to try to pinpoint the source, so listened to
the RFI on one ear while scanning the AM and SW bands with the sub RX
on the other ear. But I could find no matches, though did find the
splatter popped up centered on these additional frequencies:

813 kHz
996 kHz
2.820 mHz
3.626 mHz
19.4 mHz

Figuring it must be an FM BC station, I started going through a list
of Delaware FM stations and on the third one, 91.1 mHz, matched the
audio peaks to my splatter. Further research determined this was a
public radio station with a transmitter on a commercial tower just a half

mile west of my QTH!

While I of course was aware of the tower, which I knew to carry a
couple of cell sites and trunking radio, I hadn't been aware of the FM
station, which has apparently been there about 2 years. FCC data shows
it has 2.1 KW ERP. I had not had any previous issues with the site over

the past 17 years.


Thinking that mixing or rectification might be produced either at the
TX site or on my own QTH, I decided to track with my mobile rig, an
IC-706 MK2G. But there was NO evidence of the splatter on the 706.

Further debugging found that I was hearing the same splatter on BOTH
of my
K3 radios (no. 3021 and 3057). Even when ALL cables are removed (only
the power lead connected). Grounding or ungrounding made no change. I
tried the radios on a battery but still had the RFI. Tried some
ferrites on the power lead but no change.


So I'm thinking now there's some internal mixing in the K3 going on,
and wondering if any others have had similar issues and found any

solution.


73/Jon AA1K
Felton, Delaware
www.aa1k.us




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Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[Russ Tobolic]

What power are you running?  Try an experiment by turning the power level down 
or up thereby switching between the LPA and the KPA3 to see if this changes the 
intermod level. This may narrow it down to the TR switch.   I have had a 
similar problem with intermods between a couple of local AM stations.  The 
level of intermod changed quite noticeably switching between the output amps.  
The KPA3 and LP are using different switching diodes for the TR switch.

Russ, N3CO

  From: Jon Zaimes 
 To: 'Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO' ; 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 12:10 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station
   
Thanks for the tips.

Any filter likely would have to be inserted internally, since I am getting
this RFI without any antennas connected to the radios.Unless it is coming in
on the 12v power cord, which is still a possibility. I only tried a couple
ferrites and they may not have been the right one for choking out the FM
signal.

I did observe that I am only hearing it on the main receiver in my K3 that
has a sub RX, but not on the sub RX. Also, while checking for this, and then
going back to the main RX, the RFI signal on the main RX was greatly
reduced. Perhaps a relay contact issue. It is still just as strong as
previous on my other K3 (which has no sub RX). Toggling through PRE and ATT
did not eliminate it (though changed signal level as it would for any
signal).

73/Jon AA1K

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Vic
Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 10:20 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

Jon,

I had a similar problem with a 50 kW AM BC station a few miles away. It
turned out to be strong enough to override the bias in the K3's T/R switch.
I built a high-pass filter which solved the problem.

You would need a low-pass filter in your case. Make sure it can handle 100w,
because you must connect it in the main antenna path -- the RX in/out path
is before the T/R switch.

73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 10 Feb 2016 16:58, Jon Zaimes wrote:
> I had been noticing some RFI on 12 meters for some time that I 
> initially had thought was power line noise. My use of 12 meters is 
> seldom so it wasn't very high up on the list of things to track.
>
> When I was reminded of it while listening for VP8STI recently, I did a 
> little more snooping and realized it was actually splatter from a BC 
> signal at the low edge or slightly below the 12 meter band, centered 
> about 24.89 mHz but audible from 24.87-24.91 mHz.
>
> The distorted splatter is audible as a BC station, all talk, no music, 
> but not clear enough to decipher any ID.
>
> A few days ago I decided to try to pinpoint the source, so listened to 
> the RFI on one ear while scanning the AM and SW bands with the sub RX 
> on the other ear. But I could find no matches, though did find the 
> splatter popped up centered on these additional frequencies:
>
> 813 kHz
> 996 kHz
> 2.820 mHz
> 3.626 mHz
> 19.4 mHz
>
> Figuring it must be an FM BC station, I started going through a list 
> of Delaware FM stations and on the third one, 91.1 mHz, matched the 
> audio peaks to my splatter. Further research determined this was a 
> public radio station with a transmitter on a commercial tower just a half
mile west of my QTH!
> While I of course was aware of the tower, which I knew to carry a 
> couple of cell sites and trunking radio, I hadn't been aware of the FM 
> station, which has apparently been there about 2 years. FCC data shows 
> it has 2.1 KW ERP. I had not had any previous issues with the site over
the past 17 years.
>
> Thinking that mixing or rectification might be produced either at the 
> TX site or on my own QTH, I decided to track with my mobile rig, an 
> IC-706 MK2G. But there was NO evidence of the splatter on the 706.
>
> Further debugging found that I was hearing the same splatter on BOTH 
> of my
> K3 radios (no. 3021 and 3057). Even when ALL cables are removed (only 
> the power lead connected). Grounding or ungrounding made no change. I 
> tried the radios on a battery but still had the RFI. Tried some 
> ferrites on the power lead but no change.
>
>
> So I'm thinking now there's some internal mixing in the K3 going on, 
> and wondering if any others have had similar issues and found any
solution.
>
> 73/Jon AA1K
> Felton, Delaware
> www.aa1k.us
>
>
>
>
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> k2vco@gmail.com
>

Re: [Elecraft] Competition from ICOM?

[Bill Frantz]

I will add, that the KX3 is a really good value for a $1600 
(kit) radio. (Filter, tuner, battery, Key & Mic included, but no 
2M option.) But going to 100W does drive up the price quite a bit.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 2/10/16 at 9:50 AM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote:

My advice is that if you want to spend less for a rig, look for 
a top quality used rig that's a generation or two old. My K3s 
were the first new rigs I bought in nearly 30 years; prior to 
that, I used rigs like a TS850, Omni V, and FT1000MP that I 
bought used, all for a fraction of their initial cost. Today, a 
used TS590 would be a great choice, or if you're a bit more 
flush, a used K3.


-
Bill Frantz| The first thing you need when  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | using a perimeter defense is a | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | perimeter. | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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[Elecraft] OT: Good NAQCC YouTube video

[Paul and Sue Huff]

A new informational video about the North American QRP CW Club has been posted 
on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPRPJEgpw9w 


I think that it is well worth viewing but in the interest of full disclosure I 
have to admit that I am the president of the NAQCC so I might be "a little bit" 
biased!

73,
Paul - N8XMS


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Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

One point to consider if running the antenna wire through a pulley. It 
will work back and forth in the wind and as trees move.  The constant 
flexing will take its toll on the wire.  A stranded wire with insulation 
I have found preferred and lives longer.Also, use large diameter 
pulleys to keep the bending to a minimum.   With a fixed terminating 
point and three pulleys, forming somewhat of a square,  only one counter 
weight is required at one corner to keep the wire tight.


And yes, feed it with a balanced line of your choice.  Do bring it all 
the way into the house, thus avoiding any coax runs to the balun or 
matching network.   On QRZ.COM, you can see my balanced line section 
from the tuner,  running up the wall, through the ceiling, to the attic 
and to the outside.  Lightning protection is on the outside before the 
line enters the house.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S, s/n 10163



On 2/10/2016 12:37 PM, Nels Nelsen wrote:

Copper is fine for conductivity but:

multistrand copper coated steel

is longer lasting. Just remember this when you start trouble shooting
strange swr in a couple of years. Copper breaks so easy.Go to the
Wireman.com for some good wire.

NE7LS



On Feb 10, 2016 1:59 AM, "Clay Autery"  wrote:



3) 500' nominal, 14 AWG, THHN stranded annealed copper, gray.

4)

n_n
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Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[pa4la]

Hi Jon,

What you experience is mixing of the FM BC frequency  with the 3th, 5th, 7th 
etc. harmonic(s) of the K3's  VCO.
If the mix product result is 8,215 Mhz you can hear it.

I'm 3 km away from a BC tower hosting 10 station with >20kw each.
Used SDR-radio  on the K3-IF at 8,215 Mhz to identify the FM stations.
That was easy, stereo and even RDS could be decoded via the K3-IF.
the "mixing" frequencies could quickly be found.

You can calculate where 91,1 pops up

For the 3th VCO harmonic
((BCfreq-8,215)/3)-8,215 and
((BCfreq+8,215)/3)-8,215

That is 19,413 Mhz and 24,890 Mhz (you already knew :) )

For the 5th  8,362 Mhz and 11,648 Mhz
For the 7th  3,626 Mhz and 5,973 Mhz
And so on,
With a strong enough signal from a generator, mixing of the 11th harmonic could 
be detected.

I have only seen the BC mix phenomena when using the RX-in with MainRx and the 
SubRX on separate (wideband) antenna.
When using the RX-in, the K3 LPF  is bypassed and with the Subrx, there is no 
LPF in the KRX3 !
The LPF in the main antenna circuit has enough attenuation to stop BC FM 
leakage to the K3 mixer in my situation.

Since you have such a strong signal on 91.1 Mhz
Check if the products can be heard with the suggested external LPF connect to a 
dummy load on Ant1 (K3 LPF is inline too)
If that is still the case, the antenne input(s) is probably not the route the 
BC signal makes to the mixer.
Hope you find a solution.

73 Hugo pa4la


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Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[j...@kk9a.com]

I never had a problem with THHN, but stranded copper weld had a very short
life in Aruba.

John KK9A - P40A


N2TK, Tony tony.kaz at verizon.net
Wed Feb 10 14:00:43 EST 2016

In the Caribbean the sun and salt spray gives short life to most wires. I
bought on eBay  several years ago stranded silver-solder tinned copper wire
with a Teflon coating. It doesn't seem to have stretched much and the Teflon
coating is holding up very well. I used #14 on 160M and #12 on 80M. Here in
NY I use #20 for receive antennas.

So, I guess it depends on your climate what works best and what is the best
value.

GL.
N2TK, Tony

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Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[Walter Underwood]

A long time ago, I visited the transmitter room at the top of One Shell Plaza 
in Houston. There were nine 100 kW FM transmitters on the same antenna. The RF 
plumbing was something to behold, with big stubs like that all over the place.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Feb 10, 2016, at 9:18 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> An electrical 1/4 wavelength of coax as an open stub at the FM frequency, 
> connected using a T at the receiver input, will notch the FM TX signal.  It 
> won't attenuate other frequencies across the ham bands including 6M.  Plus 
> one can transmit with the stub arrangement in place.
> 
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/10/2016 10:13 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>> A single frequency issue like that also can be handled with a simple trap. A
>> small coil with a capacitor across it tuned to the station's frequency at
>> 91.1 MHz in series with the center conductor of your coax.
>> 
>> 73, Ron AC7AC
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> 
>> 
>> Jon,
>> 
>> I had a similar problem with a 50 kW AM BC station a few miles away. It
>> turned out to be strong enough to override the bias in the K3's T/R switch.
>> I built a high-pass filter which solved the problem.
>> 
>> You would need a low-pass filter in your case. Make sure it can handle 100w,
>> because you must connect it in the main antenna path -- the RX in/out path
>> is before the T/R switch.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
>> Rehovot, Israel
>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>> 
>> On 10 Feb 2016 16:58, Jon Zaimes wrote:
>>> I had been noticing some RFI on 12 meters for some time that I
>>> initially had thought was power line noise. My use of 12 meters is
>>> seldom so it wasn't very high up on the list of things to track.
>>> 
>>> When I was reminded of it while listening for VP8STI recently, I did a
>>> little more snooping and realized it was actually splatter from a BC
>>> signal at the low edge or slightly below the 12 meter band, centered
>>> about 24.89 mHz but audible from 24.87-24.91 mHz.
>>> 
>>> The distorted splatter is audible as a BC station, all talk, no music,
>>> but not clear enough to decipher any ID.
>>> 
>>> A few days ago I decided to try to pinpoint the source, so listened to
>>> the RFI on one ear while scanning the AM and SW bands with the sub RX
>>> on the other ear. But I could find no matches, though did find the
>>> splatter popped up centered on these additional frequencies:
>>> 
>>> 813 kHz
>>> 996 kHz
>>> 2.820 mHz
>>> 3.626 mHz
>>> 19.4 mHz
>>> 
>>> Figuring it must be an FM BC station, I started going through a list
>>> of Delaware FM stations and on the third one, 91.1 mHz, matched the
>>> audio peaks to my splatter. Further research determined this was a
>>> public radio station with a transmitter on a commercial tower just a half
>> mile west of my QTH!
>>> While I of course was aware of the tower, which I knew to carry a
>>> couple of cell sites and trunking radio, I hadn't been aware of the FM
>>> station, which has apparently been there about 2 years. FCC data shows
>>> it has 2.1 KW ERP. I had not had any previous issues with the site over
>> the past 17 years.
>>> Thinking that mixing or rectification might be produced either at the
>>> TX site or on my own QTH, I decided to track with my mobile rig, an
>>> IC-706 MK2G. But there was NO evidence of the splatter on the 706.
>>> 
>>> Further debugging found that I was hearing the same splatter on BOTH
>>> of my
>>> K3 radios (no. 3021 and 3057). Even when ALL cables are removed (only
>>> the power lead connected). Grounding or ungrounding made no change. I
>>> tried the radios on a battery but still had the RFI. Tried some
>>> ferrites on the power lead but no change.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So I'm thinking now there's some internal mixing in the K3 going on,
>>> and wondering if any others have had similar issues and found any
>> solution.
>>> 73/Jon AA1K
>>> Felton, Delaware
>>> www.aa1k.us
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Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[Clay Autery]

The rigging you describe is almost exactly what I am planning.

I can replace broken 14 AWG THHN 3 times for the price diff...  IF it
breaks... and I will simply use a non-stretching down-line on the
tension weight and monitor its descent toward the ground to determine if
and when to trim the loop back and re-terminate.

I'd use that snazzy, 30% copper over steel stuff if I didn't have the
system/access to maintain/replace the loop and I needed it to stay put
for years and years...  the insulation vs. bare wire has some measurable
impact on radiation characteristics, but at this point, I'll just get a
loop in the air so I can get on the air when I finish assembling and
testing my K3s.

Thank you and ALL of y'all for y'alls help and opinions, et al.  I have
lots of new information and docs to read/study.  :-)

__
Clay Autery
KG5LKV
(318) 518-1389

On 2/10/2016 3:59 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> That support rope Jim referenced has done a great job here for a number of
> years supporting wire antennas over 100 feet long hung in tall fir trees. I
> did provide strain relief - a pulley at one end attached to a weight so the
> tree can move freely. We do get winds gusting over 60 mph here most winters
> and the rope has handled the shock load of the tree whipping and jerking on
> a 20 lb weight. 
>
> The wire I use is hard drawn stranded copper.  I purchased mine through Ham
> Radio Outlet back when I lived near one of their stores. It is also on line
> at:
> http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=71-001462
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Pulleys yes. Cord at a marine store will be expensive.  Here's a link to the
> company that makes great antenna rope that is resold by several large ham
> vendors. 3/16-in is enough for strength, but 5/16-in is easier to grip if
> you need to pull it to put a lot of tension on it.
>
> http://www.synthetictextilesinc.com/supportham.html
>
>> I would recommend using hard drawn copper for the wire rather than 
>> THHN.  You can find THHN at your local DIY store.  For hard drawn 
>> copper, look at The Wireman www.thewireman.com.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Yes, with copper weld it is copper plated over steel.  Once the copper 
gets pitted or scored, the elements can get to the steel core, it will 
rust, expand under the copper causing the copper to further shed and the 
steel will rust and break.  If one must uses solid or stranded, hard 
drawn is preferred.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S, s/n 10163



On 2/10/2016 2:57 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

I never had a problem with THHN, but stranded copper weld had a very short
life in Aruba.

John KK9A - P40A


N2TK, Tony tony.kaz at verizon.net
Wed Feb 10 14:00:43 EST 2016

In the Caribbean the sun and salt spray gives short life to most wires. I
bought on eBay  several years ago stranded silver-solder tinned copper wire
with a Teflon coating. It doesn't seem to have stretched much and the Teflon
coating is holding up very well. I used #14 on 160M and #12 on 80M. Here in
NY I use #20 for receive antennas.

So, I guess it depends on your climate what works best and what is the best
value.

GL.
N2TK, Tony

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Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

That support rope Jim referenced has done a great job here for a number of
years supporting wire antennas over 100 feet long hung in tall fir trees. I
did provide strain relief - a pulley at one end attached to a weight so the
tree can move freely. We do get winds gusting over 60 mph here most winters
and the rope has handled the shock load of the tree whipping and jerking on
a 20 lb weight. 

The wire I use is hard drawn stranded copper.  I purchased mine through Ham
Radio Outlet back when I lived near one of their stores. It is also on line
at:
http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=71-001462

73, Ron AC7AC



-Original Message-
Pulleys yes. Cord at a marine store will be expensive.  Here's a link to the
company that makes great antenna rope that is resold by several large ham
vendors. 3/16-in is enough for strength, but 5/16-in is easier to grip if
you need to pull it to put a lot of tension on it.

http://www.synthetictextilesinc.com/supportham.html

> I would recommend using hard drawn copper for the wire rather than 
> THHN.  You can find THHN at your local DIY store.  For hard drawn 
> copper, look at The Wireman www.thewireman.com.


73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

I agree. Even better.

73, Ron AC7AC 

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob
McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 9:18 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

An electrical 1/4 wavelength of coax as an open stub at the FM frequency,
connected using a T at the receiver input, will notch the FM TX signal.  It
won't attenuate other frequencies across the ham bands including 6M.  Plus
one can transmit with the stub arrangement in place.

73
Bob, K4TAX


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Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[Fred Jensen]

I easily could have misread the original emailed problem, but he 
included the note that this RFI occurred with all antennas [and I guess 
other cables] disconnected which is very strange indeed.  If that is so, 
then I doubt stubs/filters on the antenna circuits would cure the problem.


His list of frequencies might suggest some sort of intermod between 
constant signals, one being the FM carrier, and possibly their 
harmonics.  Very strange problem at any rate.  FWIW, and Phil can 
correct me, but US FM/TV stations are usually authorized in EIRP, I 
think ... we referred to KSBY-TV, where I worked while in college, as 
"Full-power television for the Central coast, one hundred thousand watts 
on Channel 6 in San Luis Obispo" on ID's.  That was EIRP, 10 KW to a 10 
dB turnstile.  If that's still true, it would seem a 2 KW EIRP FM 
station 2 miles away shouldn't be a big deal.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 2/10/2016 2:04 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

I agree. Even better.

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob
McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 9:18 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

An electrical 1/4 wavelength of coax as an open stub at the FM frequency,
connected using a T at the receiver input, will notch the FM TX signal.  It
won't attenuate other frequencies across the ham bands including 6M.  Plus
one can transmit with the stub arrangement in place.

73
Bob, K4TAX


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Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[Don Wilhelm]

Since the problem occurs without an antenna connected, it is a version 
of the "RF in the shack" problem, although the RF field is coming from 
the nearby FM station rather than the classic situation where the 
transmitted signal is the source of the RF.


Jim makes some very good suggestions for 'taming' that problem.

It would be very difficult to cure the K3 of the "pin 1" problems.

For those who are not familiar with the "pin 1" problem, that is a 
situation where the shields of interconnecting cables are connected to 
the circuit boards rather than directly to the outside of the 
transceiver enclosure.  That allows any pickup on attached cables to be 
imposed into the boards of the transceivers.  In days of old when we 
mounted all connectors to the enclosure rather than to the circuit 
boards, the enclosure itself provided a shield for whatever trash was 
picked up by the external wiring - because those trash signals would 
flow on the 'outside' of the enclosure and not affect the circuits 
inside.  With modern transceivers where cable jacks are connected to the 
ground plane of the circuit boards rather than to the enclosure, the 
external signals are coupled to the ground plane of the internal boards, 
and will couple the offending signals into the transceiver.


In other words, "board ground plane"  does not equal "ground" - 
variations in the ground plane reference will cause "funny happenings" 
within the interior circuits.  In other words, the enclosure does not 
offer a sufficient shielding effect for the circuits inside the enclosure.


The K3 is not alone in this problem, it is shared by any transceiver 
that does not ground the connectors directly to the enclosure.


73,
Don W3FPR

73,
Don W3FPR

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/10/2016 6:57 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
Yes, this hit me between the eyes as well. The K3 has Pin One Problems 
at many (most?) connectors, so RF current flowing on shields of cables 
plugged into those connectors will couple into the K3. I've been 
preaching to Wayne about Pin One Problems since 2004, when we met in 
Dayton.


If the problem is around 90 MHz, I'd use multiple one-turn and two 
turn chokes with #43 material on every cable except the SO239 output, 
which IS actually bonded to the chassis. Also choke the power cable.


73, Jim K9YC

On Wed,2/10/2016 2:53 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
I easily could have misread the original emailed problem, but he 
included the note that this RFI occurred with all antennas [and I 
guess other cables] disconnected which is very strange indeed.  If 
that is so, then I doubt stubs/filters on the antenna circuits would 
cure the problem.




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[Elecraft] make a statement

[Vincent Diak]

Dear Sir, 
 How do you enter something of all to read about?
 Thank You
wb2pdw
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[Elecraft] congradulation clay

[Vincent Diak]

congradulation clay!
good luck! 
wb2pdw 73
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Re: [Elecraft] make a statement

[Don Wilhelm]

Vincent,

You just do what you did on that post.  Send it to the Elecraft 
reflector and it will be read by all subscribers.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/10/2016 7:39 PM, Vincent Diak wrote:

Dear Sir,
  How do you enter something of all to read about?
  Thank You
wb2pdw



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[Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[Clay Autery]

So, based on a brief survey today, my first "real" antenna will be a
nominally horizontal delta loop, while I save for and get construction
designs approved for my tower.  I'm seeking some specific parts and
"preferred" vendors:

1) 3 each, 3" / 75mm MINIMUM diameter "plastic" (UV resistant) hanging
pulley with swivel eye, sealed ball bearings, for cable/cord diameter of
3/16"
I don't see what I want readily available.  I can build them, but I'd
prefer to not have to.  Yes, 75mm minimum diameter to minimize loop wire
wear/hardening and maximize freedom of movement.

2) 500-1000' Dacron/Polyester cordage in grey, brown, OD green, black in
that order.

3) 500' nominal, 14 AWG, THHN stranded annealed copper, gray.

4) telescopic pole, preferably cable of free-standing with loop
attachment NLT 30' with minimal tip flex.  I can build this using
locally sourced materials, some drilling, welding of supplemental
retention nuts, and tapping, etc, but I'd prefer to get this up in the air.
Alternatively, I could provide counter loop guy(s).

The rest I can likely source locally.  If I wasn't trying to get
operational "with dispatch", I'd simply custom build the pulleys and
station point pole.  I may still do so.

__
Clay Autery
KG5LKV

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: roofing filter configuration settings

[Arie Kleingeld PA3A]

Hi Dick,

Just do it. If you need a certain bandwidth for a certain mode, use the 
narrowest roofer you have in there; just like in any other conventional 
transceiver.
So if you want 350Hz as bandwidth, use that 250 filter (which is 
actually 370). That's common sense.
Don't let the 250Hz tag on the filter fool you. They say they sell you 
250Hz, that's just not true. It should have stated 350Hz or so.


And in ham spirit: just try out different settings and decide what works 
best.


73
Arie PA3A

Op 10-2-2016 om 6:05 schreef Dick via Elecraft:

snip>
  
The factory default roofing filter "configuration bandwidth" setting  is to

set the 250hz filter at a setting of "250".  Therefore, the  250hz roofing
filter will engage at the same time as the 250hz DSP filter.
However, since the 250hz roofing filter has an actual BW6 of 370hz,  aren't
there times when it would be more beneficial to have  the "configuration
bandwidth" of the 250hz roofing filter set to 350 or  400?
I'm thinking this may be especially true when operating RTTY since the
average RTTY bandwidth is aprx. 370hz.  Perhaps there are times when  this
would be beneficial when operating other modes as well?
  
  
Dick- K9OM
  


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Re: [Elecraft] Competition from ICOM?

[Bill]

The fact that I made a typo doe not effect the gist of the question. I 
forgot - one has to be perfect to post here - otherwise all answers will 
only knit pick the query and not address the question.



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Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[Don Wilhelm]

Clay,

You should be able to find suitable pulleys and cord at a marine supply 
store.


I would recommend using hard drawn copper for the wire rather than 
THHN.  You can find THHN at your local DIY store.  For hard drawn 
copper, look at The Wireman www.thewireman.com.


A 32 foot heavy duty telescoping pole can be found at The Mast Co. 
www.themastco.com.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/10/2016 4:58 AM, Clay Autery wrote:

So, based on a brief survey today, my first "real" antenna will be a
nominally horizontal delta loop, while I save for and get construction
designs approved for my tower.  I'm seeking some specific parts and
"preferred" vendors:

1) 3 each, 3" / 75mm MINIMUM diameter "plastic" (UV resistant) hanging
pulley with swivel eye, sealed ball bearings, for cable/cord diameter of
3/16"
I don't see what I want readily available.  I can build them, but I'd
prefer to not have to.  Yes, 75mm minimum diameter to minimize loop wire
wear/hardening and maximize freedom of movement.

2) 500-1000' Dacron/Polyester cordage in grey, brown, OD green, black in
that order.

3) 500' nominal, 14 AWG, THHN stranded annealed copper, gray.

4) telescopic pole, preferably cable of free-standing with loop
attachment NLT 30' with minimal tip flex.  I can build this using
locally sourced materials, some drilling, welding of supplemental
retention nuts, and tapping, etc, but I'd prefer to get this up in the air.
Alternatively, I could provide counter loop guy(s).



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Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[Ronnie Hull]

Clay I have rolls and rolls of thhn. As for pulleys and etc Home Depot can 
help. Keep it simple. It will work
Better
Hard drawn is totally not necessary for your loop. And it's expensive
How are you feeding the loop? 450 or 300 ohm line is best. If your going to use 
it on multiple bands stay away from coax.
You will need a good outdoor Balun that the window line will hook to then you 
feed the bottom of the Balun with a short run of RG8 or 214. 
The impedence matcher in your K3s ( PLEASE tell me you ordered it with one, 
some people call it an antenna tuner ) will handle this setup very sweetly !
Go over and look at k5sl's setup since he is closer to you than I am

Call me anytime

Ronnie
Sent from Ronnie's IPhone

> On Feb 10, 2016, at 06:41, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Clay,
> 
> You should be able to find suitable pulleys and cord at a marine supply store.
> 
> I would recommend using hard drawn copper for the wire rather than THHN.  You 
> can find THHN at your local DIY store.  For hard drawn copper, look at The 
> Wireman www.thewireman.com.
> 
> A 32 foot heavy duty telescoping pole can be found at The Mast Co. 
> www.themastco.com.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
>> On 2/10/2016 4:58 AM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> So, based on a brief survey today, my first "real" antenna will be a
>> nominally horizontal delta loop, while I save for and get construction
>> designs approved for my tower.  I'm seeking some specific parts and
>> "preferred" vendors:
>> 
>> 1) 3 each, 3" / 75mm MINIMUM diameter "plastic" (UV resistant) hanging
>> pulley with swivel eye, sealed ball bearings, for cable/cord diameter of
>> 3/16"
>> I don't see what I want readily available.  I can build them, but I'd
>> prefer to not have to.  Yes, 75mm minimum diameter to minimize loop wire
>> wear/hardening and maximize freedom of movement.
>> 
>> 2) 500-1000' Dacron/Polyester cordage in grey, brown, OD green, black in
>> that order.
>> 
>> 3) 500' nominal, 14 AWG, THHN stranded annealed copper, gray.
>> 
>> 4) telescopic pole, preferably cable of free-standing with loop
>> attachment NLT 30' with minimal tip flex.  I can build this using
>> locally sourced materials, some drilling, welding of supplemental
>> retention nuts, and tapping, etc, but I'd prefer to get this up in the air.
>> Alternatively, I could provide counter loop guy(s).
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Competition from ICOM?

[Michael Cozzi]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for posting.

My hope is that the 7300 is an excellent radio- so that it drives 
the price down for some of the radios I want to own. I'm not into the 
knobbed radio tradition, so the 7300 isn't for me. But if it's great, we 
might see a little price drop on other SDRs.


That's my taske. (woops)

Michael- KD8TUT

On 2/10/2016 6:57 AM, Bill wrote:
The fact that I made a typo doe not effect the gist of the question. I 
forgot - one has to be perfect to post here - otherwise all answers 
will only knit pick the query and not address the question.



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[Elecraft] WTB 15Khz Filter for K3 for FM

[Thomas Chance]

Hi Everyone

We have a K3 with the KXV1 module for 2M in an existing K3.
To run FM, do we just need to add a 15KHz roffing filter?

If so, does anyone have one to sell that is sitting around collecting ham
dust?

Thanks

Tom

K9XV (W9VW)
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Re: [Elecraft] WTB 15Khz Filter for K3 for FM

[Kevin Stover]

The filter is 13KHz and it gets installed in slot number one.


On 2/10/2016 7:10 AM, Thomas Chance wrote:

Hi Everyone

We have a K3 with the KXV1 module for 2M in an existing K3.
To run FM, do we just need to add a 15KHz roffing filter?

If so, does anyone have one to sell that is sitting around collecting ham
dust?

Thanks

Tom

K9XV (W9VW)





--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


---
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Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[Jim Brown]

On Wed,2/10/2016 10:37 AM, Nels Nelsen wrote:

multistrand copper coated steel is longer lasting.


Not in my experience -- my neighbor hung a dipole strung with copperweld 
(what you're describing, I think) in some trees with tension on it and 
with pulleys and weights to deal with tree sway. It was on the ground a 
day or two later -- the stuff was quite brittle, and simply broke.


I really hate copperweld, and would never consider using it.


Just remember this when you start trouble shooting strange swr in a couple of 
years. Copper breaks so easy.Go to the Wireman.com for some good wire.


The wireman is a decent vendor, but I buy my antenna wire from big box 
stores.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[w5sum]

Clay
Hard drawn, copper weld, copper plated steel stranded is all GOOD STUFF. 
BUT.. you DON’T NEED IT HERE!
I live 12 miles from you as the crow flies. My 80 meter full wave loop made 
out of THHN has been up for
16 years and has never broken or developed high standing wave. I DO see some 
of the clear
coating coming off but the insulation itself is intact.  I will GIVE you all 
the THHN you need.


PLEASE save your money for other things you need.

Ronnie W5SUM

-Original Message- 
From: Ron D'Eau Claire

Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 3:59 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

That support rope Jim referenced has done a great job here for a number of
years supporting wire antennas over 100 feet long hung in tall fir trees. I
did provide strain relief - a pulley at one end attached to a weight so the
tree can move freely. We do get winds gusting over 60 mph here most winters
and the rope has handled the shock load of the tree whipping and jerking on
a 20 lb weight.

The wire I use is hard drawn stranded copper.  I purchased mine through Ham
Radio Outlet back when I lived near one of their stores. It is also on line
at:
http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=71-001462

73, Ron AC7AC



-Original Message-
Pulleys yes. Cord at a marine store will be expensive.  Here's a link to the
company that makes great antenna rope that is resold by several large ham
vendors. 3/16-in is enough for strength, but 5/16-in is easier to grip if
you need to pull it to put a lot of tension on it.

http://www.synthetictextilesinc.com/supportham.html


I would recommend using hard drawn copper for the wire rather than
THHN.  You can find THHN at your local DIY store.  For hard drawn
copper, look at The Wireman www.thewireman.com.



73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] K3: roofing filter configuration settings

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 2/10/2016 11:12 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:
> This sounds like a great idea. I used Inrad 250Hz filters in my Yaesu
> FT1000MP Mark-V and they worked great on RTTY but I found the 250Hz
> setting to be too narrow on my K3S.

The INRAD filters are spec'd for -3dB bandwidth.  This goes way back to
the original "International Radio" as a spin off of the Fox Tango club.
Yaesu (and Kenwood) specified their filters for operational bandwidth -
with two filters (1st and 2nd IF) in cascade.  Thus 250 Hz at - 3dB in
each filter/IF resulted in an overall 250 Hz at -6dB for the two in
cascade.

A *single* 250 Hz filter - typically the 1st IF - was a very good RTTY
filter since it had a 370 - 400 Hz bandwidth and relatively low group
delay (phase distortion) at the "corners".

Unfortunately, that doesn't quite work with the K3 where the DSP is set
to 250 Hz because the DSP has very sharp skirts (high levels of phase
distortion).  However, it will work if the "250 Hz" filter is set to
kick in at 390 Hz in RTTY and the DSP is also set for 390 Hz.  You
achieve a very sharp 390 Hz bandwidth (the DSP "cleans up" the skirts
of the IF filter) with minimum required bandwidth for 45 baud 170 Hz
shift RTTY.

Going back to the original question in this thread ... setting the 400
Hz filter as a 450 Hz and the 250 Hz filter as a 370 Hz filter results
in the sharpest skirts with overall bandwidth (at - 6dB) roughly the
same as the 450/370 settings.  That may not be enough difference to
justify the cost (price and "slot") of both IF filters and is one reason
I prefer the "400 Hz" along with the Elecraft 200 Hz - 5 pole filter
when it is available.  I don't see enough improvement with the "250 Hz"
filter in RTTY to justify both.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


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Re: [Elecraft] 160 meters RX antenna for K3 advice

[nick . ve3ey]

V. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 9, 2016, at 9:57 AM, Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS  wrote:
> 
> Hi Joe,
> 
> an easy and cheap starting point (weekend project) is the W2PM Mini-Diamond
> loop connected thru W7IUV preamplifier and KD9SV front-end saver to Ext.RX
> ant port of your K3.
> 
> It is just 1.5m square wire loop with loading resistor and feedline
> transformer so it will fit anywhere even on balcony or inside of house
> attic. ( but I recommend to place it as far from house noise as possible)
> 
> There is several other more powerful RX antennas like K9AY etc. but this is
> cheap and easy to try.
> Let me know if you want to send more instructions and help.
> 
> The best but more complicate solution which need more space and effort in
> building is definitely 3-el. Hi-Z verticals array. It will fit to 15x15m
> triangle lot and it will be hard to beat I guess.
> 
> GL 73 - Petr, OK1RP
> http://160mband.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> -
> http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/160-meters-RX-antenna-for-K3-advice-tp7613761p7613784.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[Jim Brown]

Yes, this hit me between the eyes as well. The K3 has Pin One Problems 
at many (most?) connectors, so RF current flowing on shields of cables 
plugged into those connectors will couple into the K3. I've been 
preaching to Wayne about Pin One Problems since 2004, when we met in 
Dayton.


If the problem is around 90 MHz, I'd use multiple one-turn and two turn 
chokes with #43 material on every cable except the SO239 output, which 
IS actually bonded to the chassis. Also choke the power cable.


73, Jim K9YC

On Wed,2/10/2016 2:53 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
I easily could have misread the original emailed problem, but he 
included the note that this RFI occurred with all antennas [and I 
guess other cables] disconnected which is very strange indeed.  If 
that is so, then I doubt stubs/filters on the antenna circuits would 
cure the problem.


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Re: [Elecraft] Seeking loop Antenna Parts

[Don Wilhelm]

Copperweld is "nasty" stuff IMHO.  If you can support it so it will not 
flex, you can tension it greater than plain copper.  But it 'remembers' 
the coils it had on the wire spool and will spring back to those coils 
if allowed to remain free and untensioned.  If you pull it while it has 
a kink in it, the game is over, that kink will become a spot for failure.


That is part of why I prefer hard drawn copper wire for my antennas.  I 
use stranded #14.  The stranded will endure more flexing than solid 
wire, and will not kink as easily as copperweld.


Any antenna wire will be subject to some flexing (from wind if nothing 
else), so plan on that - that is especially true if you are using trees 
as supports.  Even though you may have a system that allows the trees to 
move in the wind without stressing the antenna wire, there will still be 
flexing of the wire when those trees move.


Those reasons are why I use stranded hard drawn copper wire.  All my 
antennas are resonant.  For those who are using non-resonant antennas, 
stranded copper wire (not hard drawn) will usually suffice because some 
elongation of the wire is not likely to hurt anything.


So the bottom line answer is "it all depends" on your planned antennas 
and how much variation you can tolerate.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/10/2016 6:42 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Wed,2/10/2016 10:37 AM, Nels Nelsen wrote:

multistrand copper coated steel is longer lasting.


Not in my experience -- my neighbor hung a dipole strung with 
copperweld (what you're describing, I think) in some trees with 
tension on it and with pulleys and weights to deal with tree sway. It 
was on the ground a day or two later -- the stuff was quite brittle, 
and simply broke.


I really hate copperweld, and would never consider using it.

Just remember this when you start trouble shooting strange swr in a 
couple of years. Copper breaks so easy.Go to the Wireman.com for some 
good wire.


The wireman is a decent vendor, but I buy my antenna wire from big box 
stores.




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Re: [Elecraft] 12 meter K3 RFI from nearby FM station

[Jim Miller]

Open antenna connectors are like baby antennas. Terminate the antenna port in 
question before proceeding. 

Jim ab3cv

On Feb 10, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

Since the problem occurs without an antenna connected, it is a version of the 
"RF in the shack" problem, although the RF field is coming from the nearby FM 
station rather than the classic situation where the transmitted signal is the 
source of the RF.

Jim makes some very good suggestions for 'taming' that problem.

It would be very difficult to cure the K3 of the "pin 1" problems.

For those who are not familiar with the "pin 1" problem, that is a situation 
where the shields of interconnecting cables are connected to the circuit boards 
rather than directly to the outside of the transceiver enclosure.  That allows 
any pickup on attached cables to be imposed into the boards of the 
transceivers.  In days of old when we mounted all connectors to the enclosure 
rather than to the circuit boards, the enclosure itself provided a shield for 
whatever trash was picked up by the external wiring - because those trash 
signals would flow on the 'outside' of the enclosure and not affect the 
circuits inside.  With modern transceivers where cable jacks are connected to 
the ground plane of the circuit boards rather than to the enclosure, the 
external signals are coupled to the ground plane of the internal boards, and 
will couple the offending signals into the transceiver.

In other words, "board ground plane"  does not equal "ground" - variations in 
the ground plane reference will cause "funny happenings" within the interior 
circuits.  In other words, the enclosure does not offer a sufficient shielding 
effect for the circuits inside the enclosure.

The K3 is not alone in this problem, it is shared by any transceiver that does 
not ground the connectors directly to the enclosure.

73,
Don W3FPR

73,
Don W3FPR

73,
Don W3FPR

> On 2/10/2016 6:57 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> Yes, this hit me between the eyes as well. The K3 has Pin One Problems at 
> many (most?) connectors, so RF current flowing on shields of cables plugged 
> into those connectors will couple into the K3. I've been preaching to Wayne 
> about Pin One Problems since 2004, when we met in Dayton.
> 
> If the problem is around 90 MHz, I'd use multiple one-turn and two turn 
> chokes with #43 material on every cable except the SO239 output, which IS 
> actually bonded to the chassis. Also choke the power cable.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
>> On Wed,2/10/2016 2:53 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>> I easily could have misread the original emailed problem, but he included 
>> the note that this RFI occurred with all antennas [and I guess other cables] 
>> disconnected which is very strange indeed.  If that is so, then I doubt 
>> stubs/filters on the antenna circuits would cure the problem.
> 

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