Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated. . .

[George Thornton]

I agree with this assessment.

I like the Elecraft solution.  The K3 screen gives you clearly and simply what 
you need to know at a glance.  No fuss and always there for you.

You want a screen with a lot of other information including a band scope, put 
it in a separate box.  That leaves you free to innovate and add features as you 
want without tampering with the main information screen on the K3.

Most importantly make it reliable and make it work practically without the need 
to add a computer to the mix.





From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Ewing
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 6:51 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated. . .

With all due respect, I think the K3/P3 is a classic design, including the
man-machine interface. Not a square nanometer of wasted real estate,
everything is where I need it the most and when I need it quickly.
Graphics, interactivity, not too much, not too little, just the right
touch. It is quite clear that a great deal of thought and iteration went
into laying it out. In that sense, it's like my Collins S-Line, another
obviously well thought-out intuitive classic design that is a delight to
operate. So bedecking either of these with a multicolor touch screen is
not something that appeals to me personally. Jim Ewing N4TMM



On May 30, 2017, at 5:59 PM, Thom  
wrote:
>
> I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this
looks like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D. Come to think of
it maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.
>
> 73
>
> Thom KI8W
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Nr4c]

I'm not sure why users get so involved in a discussion on topics like this. The 
amber LCD display is part of the Elecraft image. They use it on the K3, KX2, 
KX3 and K3S. It's not going to change so pick another battle!  One you can win. 

Or, wait for the K4 in a couple years and it will likely have all or most 
features that have been suggested but never added to the K3 line. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On May 30, 2017, at 9:00 PM, brian  wrote:
> 
> Don,
> 
> Agree.  However, there is a need to update the "displays" for functions that 
> were shoe horned into the K3 well after the display was cast in concrete.
> 
> Things like a flashing decimal point.  What the heck does that mean?
> There are about a dozen such "non-intuitive" displays which could benefit 
> from some more obvious icon.
> 
> It would also be nice if the DATA display would actually tell us which K3 
> data mode is being used.
> 
> The chief beneficiaries would be people who use the K3 stand alone with no 
> computer.  Logging programs generally solve the above problems.
> 
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
> 
> 
> 
>> On 5/31/2017 0:26 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> I have to agree, "the kiss principle" Keep is simple stupid - works
>> every time.
>> While 'glitsy' displays are pretty to watch, they often do not convey
>> relevant information, or that information is buried in the 'glitz' and
>> not easily recognized at a glance.
>> 
>> The K3, KX3, KX2 displays show the VFO frequency as the predominate
>> display with the VFO B as a slightly lesser predominance.  Other
>> functions are indicated to tell you what is going on.  Everything needed
>> is there.
>> 
>> I have to contrast that to some of the displays I see on my tablet.  I
>> have to hunt around the display to find the item of interest.
>> 
>> Touchscreen - no thanks - I would need a stylus and not all stylus
>> touches produce the desired action (if my tablet is any example).  That
>> uncertainty is not something I need in a radio.
>> 
>> 73,

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Matthew Cook]

Good to see this functionality being added to N1MM, with luck some of the
SDR developers will pick this up and it can be implemented externally to
the K-line.

To be honest for situational awareness during a contest having a 24"
monitor with 2.5M or more pixels (or larger) above the desk fed with an SDR
that's sitting in the RX Loop of the K3 monitoring the entire HF band
(>300kHz) gives you both the resolution bandwidth AND video bandwidth
necessary to process this information.

I've seen a similar concept in one of the Mac based loggers (MacLoggerDX?)
where spots are placed across a pseudo frequency dial, it doesn't take long
on a low res screen for it to become unreadable and unusable.

The additional info from N1MM on top of a waterfall display will make this
all the better for search and pounce contest operation.  This feature is
one of the situations where size does matter.

73

Matthew
VK5ZM

On 31 May 2017 at 11:28, Luis V. Romero  wrote:

> I completely agree with Ken K6MR!
>
> I rarely, if ever, touch the radio. I sometimes twirl the main VFO knobs,
> but frankly, out of habit.
>
> 90% of my interface is via the computer keyboard (N1MMLogger +. Oh, yes,
> I'm
> one of those "Durn Contesters!").
>
> But there are very interesting things on the horizon.
>
> I had a very long talk with Tom Wagner, N1MM at the Dayton Contest Suite
> Friday night while Spurious Emissions played in the other room.  He showed
> me his new Logger feature: I call it "Active Bandmap".  It's a bandmap
> window that integrates live information from an Icom 7300 spectrum display
> and the spotting network data and displays it, dynamically, right on the
> logger screen.  It integrates spots, signal strength and labels the pips
> with the callsign from spot data.
>
> I have a friend with a 7300 and will start playing with this feature next
> week (I have a repeater to install this week ).
>
> This, folks, is what I attempt to do on my P3 display (I do not have the
> VGA
> option, it doesn't do much for me). Marker A. Twist the P3 knob. Drop
> Marker
> A on a pip. Push the knob in. Call the station. Repeat.  But don't do it as
> much as I want to as it takes my hands off the keyboard.
>
> I have *ALWAYS* wanted to be able to do this right on the N1MMLogger
> screen,
> under N1MMLogger *KEYBOARD* control (Shift Up Arrow/Shift Down Arrow. I'm
> not much of a mouser.).  Tom has implemented the functionality EXACTLY as I
> envisioned it. But it currently works only on an Icom 7300 and, in the
> future, other similar Icom transceivers. (Yes, I know Flex rigs can do
> this:
> No I don't think their receivers and Maestro's touch screen workflow are
> not
> up to the challenge. yet.)
>
> I am aware that details towards the implementation of this functionality
> has
> been made known to Elecraft. Tom basically has developed an "API" that
> defines how to format serial data to create a similar display from any
> modern Panadaptor display equipped transceiver with serial or "faux" serial
> over USB communications capability.
>
> I would recommend that the contest ops among us (and others who like this
> kind of stuff) investigate this functionality in N1MMLogger + and see how
> it
> may improve your Search and Pounce workflow efficiency.
>
> I also *strongly* encourage Wayne and Eric and the Elecraft Product
> Managers
> to start down the road of implementing this functionality before
> Icom/Somebody else comes out with a radio that challenges K3's performance
> capability.
>
> 73
>
> Lu Romero - W4LT
> Tampa, FL
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Luis V. Romero]

I completely agree with Ken K6MR! 

I rarely, if ever, touch the radio. I sometimes twirl the main VFO knobs,
but frankly, out of habit.

90% of my interface is via the computer keyboard (N1MMLogger +. Oh, yes, I'm
one of those "Durn Contesters!").  

But there are very interesting things on the horizon. 

I had a very long talk with Tom Wagner, N1MM at the Dayton Contest Suite
Friday night while Spurious Emissions played in the other room.  He showed
me his new Logger feature: I call it "Active Bandmap".  It's a bandmap
window that integrates live information from an Icom 7300 spectrum display
and the spotting network data and displays it, dynamically, right on the
logger screen.  It integrates spots, signal strength and labels the pips
with the callsign from spot data.  

I have a friend with a 7300 and will start playing with this feature next
week (I have a repeater to install this week ).

This, folks, is what I attempt to do on my P3 display (I do not have the VGA
option, it doesn't do much for me). Marker A. Twist the P3 knob. Drop Marker
A on a pip. Push the knob in. Call the station. Repeat.  But don't do it as
much as I want to as it takes my hands off the keyboard.

I have *ALWAYS* wanted to be able to do this right on the N1MMLogger screen,
under N1MMLogger *KEYBOARD* control (Shift Up Arrow/Shift Down Arrow. I'm
not much of a mouser.).  Tom has implemented the functionality EXACTLY as I
envisioned it. But it currently works only on an Icom 7300 and, in the
future, other similar Icom transceivers. (Yes, I know Flex rigs can do this:
No I don't think their receivers and Maestro's touch screen workflow are not
up to the challenge. yet.) 

I am aware that details towards the implementation of this functionality has
been made known to Elecraft. Tom basically has developed an "API" that
defines how to format serial data to create a similar display from any
modern Panadaptor display equipped transceiver with serial or "faux" serial
over USB communications capability.  

I would recommend that the contest ops among us (and others who like this
kind of stuff) investigate this functionality in N1MMLogger + and see how it
may improve your Search and Pounce workflow efficiency.  

I also *strongly* encourage Wayne and Eric and the Elecraft Product Managers
to start down the road of implementing this functionality before
Icom/Somebody else comes out with a radio that challenges K3's performance
capability.  

73

Lu Romero - W4LT
Tampa, FL
 
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[Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated. . .

[Jim Ewing]

With all due respect, I think the K3/P3 is a classic design, including the
man-machine interface.  Not a square nanometer of wasted real estate,
everything is where I need it the most and when I need it quickly.
Graphics, interactivity, not too much, not too little, just the right
touch.  It is quite clear that a great deal of thought and iteration went
into laying it out.  In that sense, it's like my Collins S-Line, another
obviously well thought-out intuitive classic design that is a delight to
operate.  So bedecking either of these with a multicolor touch screen is
not something that appeals to me personally.  Jim Ewing N4TMM



On May 30, 2017, at 5:59 PM, Thom  wrote:
>
> I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this
looks like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D.  Come to think of
it maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.
>
> 73
>
> Thom KI8W
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[Elecraft] K3 display is dated.

[William Levy]

Gents,

I don't care about the display. I care about how the radio works. How it
hears and how it talks.
How it works in contest or expedition environments. If display is that
important you buy a FLEX and it's as big as can be.

Bill N2WL
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[Elecraft] My comment to the K3 Display is dated.

[Patrick Novak]

Ladies and gentlemen

Maria Callas and Joan Sutherland were not the most attractive of women, 
but by Jove they could sing.


Patrick VK2PN

just recovering from WPX CW of 48 hours of practically no sleep.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[brian]

Don,

Agree.  However, there is a need to update the "displays" for functions 
that were shoe horned into the K3 well after the display was cast in 
concrete.


Things like a flashing decimal point.  What the heck does that mean?
There are about a dozen such "non-intuitive" displays which could 
benefit from some more obvious icon.


It would also be nice if the DATA display would actually tell us which 
K3 data mode is being used.


The chief beneficiaries would be people who use the K3 stand alone with 
no computer.  Logging programs generally solve the above problems.


73 de Brian/K3KO



On 5/31/2017 0:26 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

I have to agree, "the kiss principle" Keep is simple stupid - works
every time.
While 'glitsy' displays are pretty to watch, they often do not convey
relevant information, or that information is buried in the 'glitz' and
not easily recognized at a glance.

The K3, KX3, KX2 displays show the VFO frequency as the predominate
display with the VFO B as a slightly lesser predominance.  Other
functions are indicated to tell you what is going on.  Everything needed
is there.

I have to contrast that to some of the displays I see on my tablet.  I
have to hunt around the display to find the item of interest.

Touchscreen - no thanks - I would need a stylus and not all stylus
touches produce the desired action (if my tablet is any example).  That
uncertainty is not something I need in a radio.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/30/2017 8:08 PM, Roger Meadows wrote:

When I worked in industrial automation the graphics on the control
stations displays were getting fancier and fancier. The fancier they
got, the more cluttered than got. Then, the industry as a whole
started noting that more accidents were happening and missed alarms.
They, because the displays were to cutsie.

What then happened over the next few years and is standard now is very
plain graphics and displays so information does not get lost in the
clutter.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Don Wilhelm]

Kent,

While that is a good feature for autos, it does take some time and 
trouble to set up as the user desires.


I did recently purchase an upper-end car and after over a month I have 
not done too much display customization.  The simple things are the most 
important to me.  Other stuff is just a bit of glitz along with 
resulting clutter of the displays.


Sometimes too much information for the task at hand is a distraction.

73,
Don W3FPR


On 5/30/2017 8:24 PM, K9ZTV wrote:

One compromise, undoubtedly costly, would be a customisable display like 
upper-end cars are now wearing.  Users could place whatever indicators they 
wanted, wherever they wanted, in whatever combination they wanted.

But I like the Elecraft displays just as they are, for all the reasons others 
have enumerated, especially the commonality among the various rigs.


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Kevin - K4VD]

Keep it simple? Like a crystal radio?

On my KX3 I want a full heads-up display. It should have virtual
reality goggles tied to Google Earth so I can fly to your
neighborhood, check out your antenna farm and make recommendations for
improvements. I want to visualize the path my radio waves take to get
to the DX I want and be able to tweak the ionosphere for maximum S/N
at the distant end. Ideally I should have control of the DX station's
rotator. Every time I make contact with someone I want to see a 3D
starfield fly by to give me the impression of actually going
somewhere. And I want it all done in fluorescent orange and black.

Actually, it's kind of nice to get a refresh every so often. The thing
is, if there were some sort of front panel updates it really wouldn't
affect all those who currently have a radio, right? Not like our radio
is going to morph over night or anything.

73,
Kev K4VD


On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> I have to agree, "the kiss principle" Keep is simple stupid - works every
> time.
> While 'glitsy' displays are pretty to watch, they often do not convey
> relevant information, or that information is buried in the 'glitz' and not
> easily recognized at a glance.
>
> The K3, KX3, KX2 displays show the VFO frequency as the predominate display
> with the VFO B as a slightly lesser predominance.  Other functions are
> indicated to tell you what is going on.  Everything needed is there.
>
> I have to contrast that to some of the displays I see on my tablet.  I have
> to hunt around the display to find the item of interest.
>
> Touchscreen - no thanks - I would need a stylus and not all stylus touches
> produce the desired action (if my tablet is any example).  That uncertainty
> is not something I need in a radio.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 5/30/2017 8:08 PM, Roger Meadows wrote:
>>
>> When I worked in industrial automation the graphics on the control
>> stations displays were getting fancier and fancier. The fancier they got,
>> the more cluttered than got. Then, the industry as a whole started noting
>> that more accidents were happening and missed alarms. They, because the
>> displays were to cutsie.
>>
>> What then happened over the next few years and is standard now is very
>> plain graphics and displays so information does not get lost in the clutter.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Ken K6MR]

Not costly at all. You likely already have it on your desk.  Build whatever 
fancy screen you want and drive the radio through the control port. Make it 
touch screen if you like. Big, small, color, whatever you want. The power of 
software.

I remember one of the first SDR radio boards had an interface that let you move 
the controls around on the screen. Pretty much build any front  panel layout 
you wanted.

Ken K6MR

From: K9ZTV
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 5:25 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

One compromise, undoubtedly costly, would be a customisable display like 
upper-end cars are now wearing.  Users could place whatever indicators they 
wanted, wherever they wanted, in whatever combination they wanted.

But I like the Elecraft displays just as they are, for all the reasons others 
have enumerated, especially the commonality among the various rigs.

Kent  K9ZTV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Don Wilhelm]

I have to agree, "the kiss principle" Keep is simple stupid - works 
every time.
While 'glitsy' displays are pretty to watch, they often do not convey 
relevant information, or that information is buried in the 'glitz' and 
not easily recognized at a glance.


The K3, KX3, KX2 displays show the VFO frequency as the predominate 
display with the VFO B as a slightly lesser predominance.  Other 
functions are indicated to tell you what is going on.  Everything needed 
is there.


I have to contrast that to some of the displays I see on my tablet.  I 
have to hunt around the display to find the item of interest.


Touchscreen - no thanks - I would need a stylus and not all stylus 
touches produce the desired action (if my tablet is any example).  That 
uncertainty is not something I need in a radio.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/30/2017 8:08 PM, Roger Meadows wrote:

When I worked in industrial automation the graphics on the control stations 
displays were getting fancier and fancier. The fancier they got, the more 
cluttered than got. Then, the industry as a whole started noting that more 
accidents were happening and missed alarms. They, because the displays were to 
cutsie.

What then happened over the next few years and is standard now is very plain 
graphics and displays so information does not get lost in the clutter.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[K9ZTV]

One compromise, undoubtedly costly, would be a customisable display like 
upper-end cars are now wearing.  Users could place whatever indicators they 
wanted, wherever they wanted, in whatever combination they wanted. 

But I like the Elecraft displays just as they are, for all the reasons others 
have enumerated, especially the commonality among the various rigs. 

Kent  K9ZTV
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[Elecraft] WTB: P3 SVGA option

[Rob]

Hello Group,


  Just acquired a used P3 and wanted to first check to see if someone 
has an available P3 SVGA board available before buying a new one. 
Unfortunately not enough vision here to see that small display.



Thanks,

Rob  K6DQ

K6DQ at ARRL.net


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Roger Meadows]

When I worked in industrial automation the graphics on the control stations 
displays were getting fancier and fancier. The fancier they got, the more 
cluttered than got. Then, the industry as a whole started noting that more 
accidents were happening and missed alarms. They, because the displays were to 
cutsie.

What then happened over the next few years and is standard now is very plain 
graphics and displays so information does not get lost in the clutter.

Thats how I see the displays on the new rigs, cluttered. I like the KX3 display 
because it is strait to the point. The other great thing is I can go from a KX3 
to a KX3 to a K3(s) and know exactly where to find what I’m looking for on the 
display.

I’d personally keep it the way it is and use the P3/PX3 for the additional 
information.

Roger
AE4RM

On May 30, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Ken K6MR 
> wrote:

And now for something completely different (regarding K3/P3 displays):
Since I rarely look at the radio display when operating, I don’t need/want 
fancy colors/fonts/graphics. All I need is Info that is easy to read when I 
need it. Same for the P3.  Give me what I need with a minimum of fuss.  Also 
easy to focus on after many hours without sleep.
And please: no touch screens.  The last thing I need is a bunch of greasy 
fingerprints all over the display.  And I need my hands to stay on the 
keyboard(s).  Minimal motion and all that stuff.
And the same can be said for P3 mouse point and click. This is radio, not a 
video game.
And now back to your regular conversation…. ;^)

Ken K6MR

From: Phil Hystad
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:18 PM
To: Thom
Cc: 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

Besides my K3 & P3, I also have an Icom IC-7300.  The touch color display of 
the IC-7300 is essentially the same size as the P3 and I think the P3 is a 
little tiny bit larger of maybe 1/8th inch larger diagonal measure.  The 
information on the IC-7300 is basically the same as the combo of the K3 and P3 
although different display options (mostly on the 7300) makes this a dubious 
comparison.

But, I think that the entire P3 display could be used as a full K3+P3 display 
however I am betting that all the information necessary to drive the K3 display 
is not available to the P3 and not practical to create an interface to handle 
it.

My two-bits on the matter.

73, phil, K7PEH


On May 30, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Thom > wrote:

I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this looks 
like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D. Come to think of it maybe 
Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.

73

Thom KI8W



On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:
I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)



-
Chuck, KE9UW
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Kevin Stover, AC0H]

I have low vision.

The absolute worst thing you could do is to change the K3S display.
I need high contrast either a black background and light text or a light 
background and dark text. The K3S's background is light yellow and it 
has black text.


Color displays sure are pretty but normal size text and characters wash 
out. I have special software on this computer that magnifies the screen 
so I can read it. I also run a high contrast theme.


On 5/30/2017 5:44 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:

Huh. Maybe it isn't a sighted thing that I just wouldn't understand after all. 
Or else Ken is an honorary blind guy. ...

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name





On May 30, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Ken K6MR  wrote:

And now for something completely different (regarding K3/P3 displays):
Since I rarely look at the radio display when operating, I don’t need/want 
fancy colors/fonts/graphics. All I need is Info that is easy to read when I 
need it. Same for the P3.  Give me what I need with a minimum of fuss.  Also 
easy to focus on after many hours without sleep.
And please: no touch screens.  The last thing I need is a bunch of greasy 
fingerprints all over the display.  And I need my hands to stay on the 
keyboard(s).  Minimal motion and all that stuff.
And the same can be said for P3 mouse point and click. This is radio, not a 
video game.
And now back to your regular conversation…. ;^)

Ken K6MR

From: Phil Hystad
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:18 PM
To: Thom
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

Besides my K3 & P3, I also have an Icom IC-7300.  The touch color display of 
the IC-7300 is essentially the same size as the P3 and I think the P3 is a little 
tiny bit larger of maybe 1/8th inch larger diagonal measure.  The information on 
the IC-7300 is basically the same as the combo of the K3 and P3 although different 
display options (mostly on the 7300) makes this a dubious comparison.

But, I think that the entire P3 display could be used as a full K3+P3 display 
however I am betting that all the information necessary to drive the K3 display 
is not available to the P3 and not practical to create an interface to handle 
it.

My two-bits on the matter.

73, phil, K7PEH



On May 30, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Thom  wrote:

I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this looks 
like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D.  Come to think of it maybe 
Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.

73

Thom KI8W



On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:

I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)



-
Chuck, KE9UW
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
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--
R. Kevin StoverAC0H
FISTS 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Al Lorona]

Whenever this thread comes up-- and it has several times before-- I usually 
point toward the displays on the most advanced commercial aircraft in the skies 
for comparison. In this context, a pilot needs to know a few (or several) 
critical pieces of information instantly, and easily, and can't be captivated 
by eye candy. If your shiny new Kensucom's display looked like this, you 
probably wouldn't buy it:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/737max/news/new-flight-deck-displays.page  
(watch closely at the 0:43 mark)


A serious ham operator in a DXpedition or major contest effort may have more 
than a few things in common with a pilot processing all the inputs coming at 
him from many sources. Perhaps we should be asking, "When will Icom de-clutter 
it's display to be more like the K3's?"

As for touch screens, a few minutes ago my iPhone wouldn't respond to my 
finger, no matter what I did, and I was locked out. No thanks... I don't want 
my pilot (or my 160 meter contest) defeated by a little bit of perspiration or 
dryness at a crucial moment.

Al  W6LX
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Dave Cole]

My K3 has a new fresh color display...  I use a computer and a 
Genovation pad to control it...  :)


73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 05/30/2017 02:36 PM, ke9uw wrote:

I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)



-
Chuck, KE9UW
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Bob]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, and personally I like the
existing K3/K3s display and its reduced power consumption, and fewer
worries about RFI. The K3 is very power efficient, and that would be lost
with a larger color display.

The K3 is MUCH smaller/lighter than other big desk radios, something else I
like very much, which is part of its appeal for so many DXpeditions.
Those big screen color radios simply don't show up in those environments.

It isn't my company, but I hope Elecraft keeps spending their engineering
resources on functionality rather than bling.

73, Bob, WB4SON








On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 6:44 PM, Buddy Brannan  wrote:

> Huh. Maybe it isn't a sighted thing that I just wouldn't understand after
> all. Or else Ken is an honorary blind guy. ...
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: bu...@brannan.name
>
>
>
>
> > On May 30, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Ken K6MR  wrote:
> >
> > And now for something completely different (regarding K3/P3 displays):
> > Since I rarely look at the radio display when operating, I don’t
> need/want fancy colors/fonts/graphics. All I need is Info that is easy to
> read when I need it. Same for the P3.  Give me what I need with a minimum
> of fuss.  Also easy to focus on after many hours without sleep.
> > And please: no touch screens.  The last thing I need is a bunch of
> greasy fingerprints all over the display.  And I need my hands to stay on
> the keyboard(s).  Minimal motion and all that stuff.
> > And the same can be said for P3 mouse point and click. This is radio,
> not a video game.
> > And now back to your regular conversation…. ;^)
> >
> > Ken K6MR
> >
> > From: Phil Hystad
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:18 PM
> > To: Thom
> > Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...
> >
> > Besides my K3 & P3, I also have an Icom IC-7300.  The touch color
> display of the IC-7300 is essentially the same size as the P3 and I think
> the P3 is a little tiny bit larger of maybe 1/8th inch larger diagonal
> measure.  The information on the IC-7300 is basically the same as the combo
> of the K3 and P3 although different display options (mostly on the 7300)
> makes this a dubious comparison.
> >
> > But, I think that the entire P3 display could be used as a full K3+P3
> display however I am betting that all the information necessary to drive
> the K3 display is not available to the P3 and not practical to create an
> interface to handle it.
> >
> > My two-bits on the matter.
> >
> > 73, phil, K7PEH
> >
> >
> >> On May 30, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Thom  wrote:
> >>
> >> I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this
> looks like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D.  Come to think of
> it maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.
> >>
> >> 73
> >>
> >> Thom KI8W
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:
> >>> I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated
> display,
> >>> one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
> >>> displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -
> >>> Chuck, KE9UW
> >>> --
> >>> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.
> nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
> >>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>> __
> >>> Elecraft mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> >>>
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> >>> Message delivered to k...@ki8w.com
> >>
> >> __
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> 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Ken K6MR]

Buddy:

Interesting thought.  Could I operate without sight?  Not likely. Especially 
considering my extremely lousy typing skills. But except for double checking 
what I typed, 90% of operating is hearing (RTTY excepted, of course). I find 
the less I share my brain power between visual/audio info the better. I don’t 
do assisted (no distracting band map) and my favorite contests are Sprints.  
Just pure radio with a little technology to record the results.

Getting a bit OT here so I better quit before Eric finds out….

Ken K6MR

From: Buddy Brannan
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:44 PM
To: Ken K6MR
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

Huh. Maybe it isn't a sighted thing that I just wouldn't understand after all. 
Or else Ken is an honorary blind guy. ...

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name




> On May 30, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Ken K6MR  wrote:
>
> And now for something completely different (regarding K3/P3 displays):
> Since I rarely look at the radio display when operating, I don’t need/want 
> fancy colors/fonts/graphics. All I need is Info that is easy to read when I 
> need it. Same for the P3.  Give me what I need with a minimum of fuss.  Also 
> easy to focus on after many hours without sleep.
> And please: no touch screens.  The last thing I need is a bunch of greasy 
> fingerprints all over the display.  And I need my hands to stay on the 
> keyboard(s).  Minimal motion and all that stuff.
> And the same can be said for P3 mouse point and click. This is radio, not a 
> video game.
> And now back to your regular conversation…. ;^)
>
> Ken K6MR
>
> From: Phil Hystad
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:18 PM
> To: Thom
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...
>
> Besides my K3 & P3, I also have an Icom IC-7300.  The touch color display of 
> the IC-7300 is essentially the same size as the P3 and I think the P3 is a 
> little tiny bit larger of maybe 1/8th inch larger diagonal measure.  The 
> information on the IC-7300 is basically the same as the combo of the K3 and 
> P3 although different display options (mostly on the 7300) makes this a 
> dubious comparison.
>
> But, I think that the entire P3 display could be used as a full K3+P3 display 
> however I am betting that all the information necessary to drive the K3 
> display is not available to the P3 and not practical to create an interface 
> to handle it.
>
> My two-bits on the matter.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
>> On May 30, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Thom  wrote:
>>
>> I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this looks 
>> like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D.  Come to think of it 
>> maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Thom KI8W
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:
>>> I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
>>> one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
>>> displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Chuck, KE9UW
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: 
>>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
>>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>>
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>>> Message delivered to k...@ki8w.com
>>
>> __
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> 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Scott Manthe]

Remember that the K3 was designed almost 10 years ago to include being a 
nifty QRP/DXpedition rig. I'm guessing the monochrome display saves some 
current over a full-color display.


73,
Scott N9AA


On 5/30/17 5:36 PM, ke9uw wrote:

I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)



-
Chuck, KE9UW
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] N6WM/KH6 KX2 portable fun

[Chris Tate - N6WM]

Ill be mostly CW and I have a small lenovo laptop that has a nice long lasting 
battery so I may do some real qrp rtty..  we shall see how that works out...   
Last year I went qrv from ZF2 and worked a couple hundred cw qso's in just a 
few hours with the hosts paddles flipped around backwards to accommodate my 
left handed fist...(didnt want to rewire a hosts gear.. was just glad for the 
oppportunity!)

Your list is great, after my last experience, I have developed a couple 
portable kits depending on where my travels take me. this will be my mini kit 
that has much of this stuff..  my bigger kits are more K3 friendly with pelican 
cases and such for all the accessories.  But I have been dying to play with the 
KX2 and with the primary focus on the kids the mini KX2 kit it is this time... 
but I will probably bring the buddipole as well.

Should be fun!

Chris
N6WM


From: Kevin - K4VD [ke...@k4vd.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:14 PM
To: Chris Tate - N6WM
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; c...@ncdxc.org
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] N6WM/KH6 KX2 portable fun

Hi Chris... looking forward to trying a VA(KX3) - HI(KX2) QSO. Will
you be working some CW or digital?

I've been working on my checklist for portable ops with the KX3. Maybe
a little OCD but I'm always concerned about getting out in the field
and forgetting something key. My minimal list is:

KX3
License
Logbook
Notebook
Pen
Pencil
Antenna 40/20
Coax jumper
Paddles
Earphones
Hand mic
Mason line
Weight
Spare batteries (AA)

All fits in a small camera bag.

Also, I wonder if there's any concern about sand getting into the KX2.

73,
Kev K4VD
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Buddy Brannan]

Huh. Maybe it isn't a sighted thing that I just wouldn't understand after all. 
Or else Ken is an honorary blind guy. ... 

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name




> On May 30, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Ken K6MR  wrote:
> 
> And now for something completely different (regarding K3/P3 displays):
> Since I rarely look at the radio display when operating, I don’t need/want 
> fancy colors/fonts/graphics. All I need is Info that is easy to read when I 
> need it. Same for the P3.  Give me what I need with a minimum of fuss.  Also 
> easy to focus on after many hours without sleep.
> And please: no touch screens.  The last thing I need is a bunch of greasy 
> fingerprints all over the display.  And I need my hands to stay on the 
> keyboard(s).  Minimal motion and all that stuff.
> And the same can be said for P3 mouse point and click. This is radio, not a 
> video game.
> And now back to your regular conversation…. ;^)
> 
> Ken K6MR
> 
> From: Phil Hystad
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:18 PM
> To: Thom
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...
> 
> Besides my K3 & P3, I also have an Icom IC-7300.  The touch color display of 
> the IC-7300 is essentially the same size as the P3 and I think the P3 is a 
> little tiny bit larger of maybe 1/8th inch larger diagonal measure.  The 
> information on the IC-7300 is basically the same as the combo of the K3 and 
> P3 although different display options (mostly on the 7300) makes this a 
> dubious comparison.
> 
> But, I think that the entire P3 display could be used as a full K3+P3 display 
> however I am betting that all the information necessary to drive the K3 
> display is not available to the P3 and not practical to create an interface 
> to handle it.
> 
> My two-bits on the matter.
> 
> 73, phil, K7PEH
> 
> 
>> On May 30, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Thom  wrote:
>> 
>> I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this looks 
>> like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D.  Come to think of it 
>> maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Thom KI8W
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:
>>> I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
>>> one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
>>> displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Chuck, KE9UW
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: 
>>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
>>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>> 
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>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Buddy Brannan]

I was turning the knob on a K3 once a couple years ago and thought, hey, what a 
smooth turning knob. What a nifty radio. I want one. Not in this lifetime, 
however, though I'm really enjoying my KX3 and K2. Well...OK...enjoying is 
probably a stretch, since I need to put up an hf antenna again. 

But, OK, maybe this is just one of those things that I'll just never understand 
(there are lots), but if the display gives you the information you need, in 
some legible manner, why does it need changed? Is there something your TS-570 
isn't telling you that you just aren't getting by without knowing? Is change 
for change's sake what we're asking for, or is there something I'm missing (not 
at all unlikely)? 

"It's a sighted thing, you'd never understand" is a perfectly valid answer 
here. Probably. 

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name




> On May 30, 2017, at 5:59 PM, Thom  wrote:
> 
> I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this looks 
> like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D.  Come to think of it 
> maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.
> 
> 73
> 
> Thom KI8W
> 
> 
> 
> On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:
>> I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
>> one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
>> displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Chuck, KE9UW
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to k...@ki8w.com
> 
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--
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Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Ken K6MR]

And now for something completely different (regarding K3/P3 displays):
Since I rarely look at the radio display when operating, I don’t need/want 
fancy colors/fonts/graphics. All I need is Info that is easy to read when I 
need it. Same for the P3.  Give me what I need with a minimum of fuss.  Also 
easy to focus on after many hours without sleep.
And please: no touch screens.  The last thing I need is a bunch of greasy 
fingerprints all over the display.  And I need my hands to stay on the 
keyboard(s).  Minimal motion and all that stuff.
And the same can be said for P3 mouse point and click. This is radio, not a 
video game.
And now back to your regular conversation…. ;^)

Ken K6MR

From: Phil Hystad
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:18 PM
To: Thom
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

Besides my K3 & P3, I also have an Icom IC-7300.  The touch color display of 
the IC-7300 is essentially the same size as the P3 and I think the P3 is a 
little tiny bit larger of maybe 1/8th inch larger diagonal measure.  The 
information on the IC-7300 is basically the same as the combo of the K3 and P3 
although different display options (mostly on the 7300) makes this a dubious 
comparison.

But, I think that the entire P3 display could be used as a full K3+P3 display 
however I am betting that all the information necessary to drive the K3 display 
is not available to the P3 and not practical to create an interface to handle 
it.

My two-bits on the matter.

73, phil, K7PEH


> On May 30, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Thom  wrote:
>
> I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this looks 
> like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D.  Come to think of it 
> maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.
>
> 73
>
> Thom KI8W
>
>
>
> On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:
>> I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
>> one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
>> displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Chuck, KE9UW
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Phil Hystad]

Besides my K3 & P3, I also have an Icom IC-7300.  The touch color display of 
the IC-7300 is essentially the same size as the P3 and I think the P3 is a 
little tiny bit larger of maybe 1/8th inch larger diagonal measure.  The 
information on the IC-7300 is basically the same as the combo of the K3 and P3 
although different display options (mostly on the 7300) makes this a dubious 
comparison.

But, I think that the entire P3 display could be used as a full K3+P3 display 
however I am betting that all the information necessary to drive the K3 display 
is not available to the P3 and not practical to create an interface to handle 
it.

My two-bits on the matter.

73, phil, K7PEH


> On May 30, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Thom  wrote:
> 
> I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this looks 
> like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D.  Come to think of it 
> maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.
> 
> 73
> 
> Thom KI8W
> 
> 
> 
> On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:
>> I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
>> one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
>> displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Chuck, KE9UW
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[Thom]

I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this 
looks like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D.  Come to think 
of it maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios 
too.


73

Thom KI8W



On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:

I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)



-
Chuck, KE9UW
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

[ke9uw]

I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)



-
Chuck, KE9UW
--
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http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
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Re: [Elecraft] N6WM/KH6 KX2 portable fun

[Kevin - K4VD]

Hi Chris... looking forward to trying a VA(KX3) - HI(KX2) QSO. Will
you be working some CW or digital?

I've been working on my checklist for portable ops with the KX3. Maybe
a little OCD but I'm always concerned about getting out in the field
and forgetting something key. My minimal list is:

KX3
License
Logbook
Notebook
Pen
Pencil
Antenna 40/20
Coax jumper
Paddles
Earphones
Hand mic
Mason line
Weight
Spare batteries (AA)

All fits in a small camera bag.

Also, I wonder if there's any concern about sand getting into the KX2.

73,
Kev K4VD
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[Elecraft] N6WM/KH6 KX2 portable fun

[Chris Tate - N6WM]

All on the week of July 3-7 I am taking my annual trip to KH6 with my kids.  As 
the boys are playing on the beach I plan to try and operate my KX2 on battery 
power from Kailua beach, probably several days worth.   there are some nice 
trees and a park right by the water. I plan to use resonant wires as well as a 
buddipole I have so I can qsy to the water as needed.

Ill send a reminder right before I leave.. will be fun to test out the KX2 
portable and finally get to play with my toy.

Thanks

Chris
N6WM
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Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] Shack cleaning.

[Ken G Kopp]

Uh-oh (;-)

I apologise.

73

K0PP




On May 30, 2017 10:47 AM, "Scott Manthe"  wrote:

Wrong group, Ken...

73,
Scott N9AA
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Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] Shack cleaning.

[Scott Manthe]

Wrong group, Ken...

73,
Scott N9AA

On 5/30/17 12:43 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote:

Anal retentive comes to mind ... (;-)

Also "petty" ...

K0PP

On May 30, 2017 7:14 AM, "'Charlie T, K3ICH' pin...@erols.com [KX3]" <
kx3-nore...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



You know, when I see the header “Shack Cleaning”, I have this vision of
rooting through a pile of junk sitting on the curb, waiting for the trash
man to haul it off to the dump.

To me, it certainly does NOT inspire me to want to look.

I guess you could interpret the comment as implying very low prices (since
they were going to be thrown out anyway).

I would “very respectfully” suggest that somewhat different wording be
used if one wants imply that the items for sale aren’t junk.



73, Charlie k3ICH




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Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] Shack cleaning.

[Ken G Kopp]

Anal retentive comes to mind ... (;-)

Also "petty" ...

K0PP

On May 30, 2017 7:14 AM, "'Charlie T, K3ICH' pin...@erols.com [KX3]" <
kx3-nore...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> You know, when I see the header “Shack Cleaning”, I have this vision of
> rooting through a pile of junk sitting on the curb, waiting for the trash
> man to haul it off to the dump.
>
> To me, it certainly does NOT inspire me to want to look.
>
> I guess you could interpret the comment as implying very low prices (since
> they were going to be thrown out anyway).
>
> I would “very respectfully” suggest that somewhat different wording be
> used if one wants imply that the items for sale aren’t junk.
>
>
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>
>
>
>
> __._,_.___
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Re: [Elecraft] K2 BFO issues

[Don Wilhelm]

Anthony,

If you are getting 7 volts onto R98, there is no need to look into the 
U10 circuits.
Check the values and soldering in other parts of the RF Board BFO and 
Q24 area.
Is D36 installed properly using pins 2 and 3 on the SMT board with the 
#2 lead in the hole of the silkscreen with the banded end?


73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/30/2017 11:26 AM, Anthony Clare wrote:

Don:

I just looked at the schematic. I do remember checking the voltage at R98 now
that I look at it. I do recall getting over 7 volts in and somewhere around
5.8 give or take at the drain of Q24.

I never thought to look at U10 or associated circuitry. I will do that as soon
as I get home.

Thanks,
Anthony
n3kcb

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 30 May 2017 10:14:48 AM EDT
From: Don Wilhelm 
To: Anthony Clare , elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 BFO issues

Anthony,

If you do not find more than 7 volts at the end of R98 that is furthest
away from Q24, then look at the U10A/Q8 circuit on the Control Board.
Check the associated components and their soldering.  That is more
likely to be the problem than the active devices.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/30/2017 9:28 AM, Anthony Clare wrote:

Hello:

I am not at home to try, so I will have to check R98 later. I remember

fitting

the encoder and it was definitely a tight fit. I used a dremel sanding drum

to

almost completely flatten the pins in the affected area on the encoder

board

and control board. Then I reflowed all the connections that I flattened and
placed fiberglass tape over the encoder board. Once I did this, I could

look

between the boards and see no physical contact.

I will separate the control and front panel boards and see what happens when

I

get home.

Thanks,
Anthony
n3kcb

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 30 May 2017 08:51:03 AM EDT
From: Don Wilhelm 
To: Anthony Clare , elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 BFO issues

Anthony,

When you put the K2 into CAL FCTR mode, what is the voltage at the ends
of R98 (on the bottom of the board).  I am interested only in the
highest voltage.

With the new K2s (those using the new encoder board), many strange
problems are caused by contact of the encoder board with the Control Board.
You must flush trim the leads on the encoder board - and I mean almost
right down to the board level.
Also you must flush trim the back of the Control Board in the area that
could come in contact with the encoder board.
Make sure the rubber bumper pads are in place at the top corners of the
Front Panel Board.

As a test, remove the 2 screws that secure the Control Board to the
Front Panel and tilt the top of the Control Board to the rear.  If
things then behave normally, you can be certain that contact between the
encoder board and the Control Board is causing the problem.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/30/2017 8:07 AM, Anthony Clare wrote:

Hello:

Looks like I am not the only one to have this problem. Just finished

assembly

phase 2(?) on the K2. It was during the BFO tests that I realized there

was

not enough signal at the test point for the internal counter. I checked

for

poor solder, improper varactor diode install, verified that L33 was intact

and

not being shorted by the 5 meg resistor, etc. I ran one crystal at a time,

but

neither one would provide the proper signal level alone. I even checked

L33

on

the inductance meter and it came out to about 39uH, which seems about

right.

I

assume the inductance meter has some error. The resistor measures out to

about

5 meg.









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Re: [Elecraft] K2 BFO issues

[Anthony Clare]

Don:

I just looked at the schematic. I do remember checking the voltage at R98 now
that I look at it. I do recall getting over 7 volts in and somewhere around
5.8 give or take at the drain of Q24.

I never thought to look at U10 or associated circuitry. I will do that as soon
as I get home.

Thanks,
Anthony
n3kcb

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 30 May 2017 10:14:48 AM EDT
From: Don Wilhelm 
To: Anthony Clare , elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 BFO issues

Anthony,

If you do not find more than 7 volts at the end of R98 that is furthest 
away from Q24, then look at the U10A/Q8 circuit on the Control Board.  
Check the associated components and their soldering.  That is more 
likely to be the problem than the active devices.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/30/2017 9:28 AM, Anthony Clare wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I am not at home to try, so I will have to check R98 later. I remember
fitting
> the encoder and it was definitely a tight fit. I used a dremel sanding drum
to
> almost completely flatten the pins in the affected area on the encoder
board
> and control board. Then I reflowed all the connections that I flattened and
> placed fiberglass tape over the encoder board. Once I did this, I could
look
> between the boards and see no physical contact.
>
> I will separate the control and front panel boards and see what happens when
I
> get home.
>
> Thanks,
> Anthony
> n3kcb
>
> -- Original Message --
> Received: Tue, 30 May 2017 08:51:03 AM EDT
> From: Don Wilhelm 
> To: Anthony Clare , elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 BFO issues
>
> Anthony,
>
> When you put the K2 into CAL FCTR mode, what is the voltage at the ends
> of R98 (on the bottom of the board).  I am interested only in the
> highest voltage.
>
> With the new K2s (those using the new encoder board), many strange
> problems are caused by contact of the encoder board with the Control Board.
> You must flush trim the leads on the encoder board - and I mean almost
> right down to the board level.
> Also you must flush trim the back of the Control Board in the area that
> could come in contact with the encoder board.
> Make sure the rubber bumper pads are in place at the top corners of the
> Front Panel Board.
>
> As a test, remove the 2 screws that secure the Control Board to the
> Front Panel and tilt the top of the Control Board to the rear.  If
> things then behave normally, you can be certain that contact between the
> encoder board and the Control Board is causing the problem.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 5/30/2017 8:07 AM, Anthony Clare wrote:
>> Hello:
>>
>> Looks like I am not the only one to have this problem. Just finished
> assembly
>> phase 2(?) on the K2. It was during the BFO tests that I realized there
was
>> not enough signal at the test point for the internal counter. I checked
for
>> poor solder, improper varactor diode install, verified that L33 was intact
> and
>> not being shorted by the 5 meg resistor, etc. I ran one crystal at a time,
> but
>> neither one would provide the proper signal level alone. I even checked
L33
> on
>> the inductance meter and it came out to about 39uH, which seems about
right.
> I
>> assume the inductance meter has some error. The resistor measures out to
> about
>> 5 meg.
>>
>
>



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Re: [Elecraft] K2 BFO issues

[Don Wilhelm]

Anthony,

If you do not find more than 7 volts at the end of R98 that is furthest 
away from Q24, then look at the U10A/Q8 circuit on the Control Board.  
Check the associated components and their soldering.  That is more 
likely to be the problem than the active devices.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/30/2017 9:28 AM, Anthony Clare wrote:

Hello:

I am not at home to try, so I will have to check R98 later. I remember fitting
the encoder and it was definitely a tight fit. I used a dremel sanding drum to
almost completely flatten the pins in the affected area on the encoder board
and control board. Then I reflowed all the connections that I flattened and
placed fiberglass tape over the encoder board. Once I did this, I could look
between the boards and see no physical contact.

I will separate the control and front panel boards and see what happens when I
get home.

Thanks,
Anthony
n3kcb

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 30 May 2017 08:51:03 AM EDT
From: Don Wilhelm 
To: Anthony Clare , elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 BFO issues

Anthony,

When you put the K2 into CAL FCTR mode, what is the voltage at the ends
of R98 (on the bottom of the board).  I am interested only in the
highest voltage.

With the new K2s (those using the new encoder board), many strange
problems are caused by contact of the encoder board with the Control Board.
You must flush trim the leads on the encoder board - and I mean almost
right down to the board level.
Also you must flush trim the back of the Control Board in the area that
could come in contact with the encoder board.
Make sure the rubber bumper pads are in place at the top corners of the
Front Panel Board.

As a test, remove the 2 screws that secure the Control Board to the
Front Panel and tilt the top of the Control Board to the rear.  If
things then behave normally, you can be certain that contact between the
encoder board and the Control Board is causing the problem.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/30/2017 8:07 AM, Anthony Clare wrote:

Hello:

Looks like I am not the only one to have this problem. Just finished

assembly

phase 2(?) on the K2. It was during the BFO tests that I realized there was
not enough signal at the test point for the internal counter. I checked for
poor solder, improper varactor diode install, verified that L33 was intact

and

not being shorted by the 5 meg resistor, etc. I ran one crystal at a time,

but

neither one would provide the proper signal level alone. I even checked L33

on

the inductance meter and it came out to about 39uH, which seems about right.

I

assume the inductance meter has some error. The resistor measures out to

about

5 meg.






__
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Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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Re: [Elecraft] K2 BFO issues

[Anthony Clare]

Hello:

I am not at home to try, so I will have to check R98 later. I remember fitting
the encoder and it was definitely a tight fit. I used a dremel sanding drum to
almost completely flatten the pins in the affected area on the encoder board
and control board. Then I reflowed all the connections that I flattened and
placed fiberglass tape over the encoder board. Once I did this, I could look
between the boards and see no physical contact. 

I will separate the control and front panel boards and see what happens when I
get home.

Thanks,
Anthony
n3kcb

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 30 May 2017 08:51:03 AM EDT
From: Don Wilhelm 
To: Anthony Clare , elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 BFO issues

Anthony,

When you put the K2 into CAL FCTR mode, what is the voltage at the ends 
of R98 (on the bottom of the board).  I am interested only in the 
highest voltage.

With the new K2s (those using the new encoder board), many strange 
problems are caused by contact of the encoder board with the Control Board.
You must flush trim the leads on the encoder board - and I mean almost 
right down to the board level.
Also you must flush trim the back of the Control Board in the area that 
could come in contact with the encoder board.
Make sure the rubber bumper pads are in place at the top corners of the 
Front Panel Board.

As a test, remove the 2 screws that secure the Control Board to the 
Front Panel and tilt the top of the Control Board to the rear.  If 
things then behave normally, you can be certain that contact between the 
encoder board and the Control Board is causing the problem.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/30/2017 8:07 AM, Anthony Clare wrote:
> Hello:
> 
> Looks like I am not the only one to have this problem. Just finished
assembly
> phase 2(?) on the K2. It was during the BFO tests that I realized there was
> not enough signal at the test point for the internal counter. I checked for
> poor solder, improper varactor diode install, verified that L33 was intact
and
> not being shorted by the 5 meg resistor, etc. I ran one crystal at a time,
but
> neither one would provide the proper signal level alone. I even checked L33
on
> the inductance meter and it came out to about 39uH, which seems about right.
I
> assume the inductance meter has some error. The resistor measures out to
about
> 5 meg.
> 


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Re: [Elecraft] K2 BFO issues

[Don Wilhelm]

Anthony,

When you put the K2 into CAL FCTR mode, what is the voltage at the ends 
of R98 (on the bottom of the board).  I am interested only in the 
highest voltage.


With the new K2s (those using the new encoder board), many strange 
problems are caused by contact of the encoder board with the Control Board.
You must flush trim the leads on the encoder board - and I mean almost 
right down to the board level.
Also you must flush trim the back of the Control Board in the area that 
could come in contact with the encoder board.
Make sure the rubber bumper pads are in place at the top corners of the 
Front Panel Board.


As a test, remove the 2 screws that secure the Control Board to the 
Front Panel and tilt the top of the Control Board to the rear.  If 
things then behave normally, you can be certain that contact between the 
encoder board and the Control Board is causing the problem.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/30/2017 8:07 AM, Anthony Clare wrote:

Hello:

Looks like I am not the only one to have this problem. Just finished assembly
phase 2(?) on the K2. It was during the BFO tests that I realized there was
not enough signal at the test point for the internal counter. I checked for
poor solder, improper varactor diode install, verified that L33 was intact and
not being shorted by the 5 meg resistor, etc. I ran one crystal at a time, but
neither one would provide the proper signal level alone. I even checked L33 on
the inductance meter and it came out to about 39uH, which seems about right. I
assume the inductance meter has some error. The resistor measures out to about
5 meg.


__
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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[Elecraft] K2 BFO issues

[Anthony Clare]

Hello:

Looks like I am not the only one to have this problem. Just finished assembly
phase 2(?) on the K2. It was during the BFO tests that I realized there was
not enough signal at the test point for the internal counter. I checked for
poor solder, improper varactor diode install, verified that L33 was intact and
not being shorted by the 5 meg resistor, etc. I ran one crystal at a time, but
neither one would provide the proper signal level alone. I even checked L33 on
the inductance meter and it came out to about 39uH, which seems about right. I
assume the inductance meter has some error. The resistor measures out to about
5 meg.

Anyway, with the test pojnt NOT active, I get about 385 mV at pin 6 of the
NE602. in counter mode, that drops into the 250 mV range and I get about 25 mV
at the test point. When i use the band up/down buttons to check BFO range, it
drops to around 10 mV at either end.

I even tried some other crystals (4.915, 5.242, 9.000, etc.) I had laying
around to see what happened. Same low signal levels.

I hate to shotgun, but I have already replaced the 602 and J-310 since I have
tons in the parts pins.

Any ideas?

Anthony
n3kcb

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