Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Jim Brown]

On 10/11/2019 2:00 PM, Bill wrote:

Might I suggest a Common Mode Filter, such as that sold my myantennas.com


All the mumbo-jumbo on that site tells me that they selling snake oil. 
FAR better, and much less expensive, wind your own using these 
guidelines. k9yc.com/2018Cookbook.pdf


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 2019-10-11 3:19 PM, Doug Person wrote:
>

My favorite is the "Differential-T" 986 which tunes everything with
very little effort. 


Any of the many "T" (single shunt coil, multiple series capacitors)
network tuners are high pass networks.  They do very little to
suppress harmonics and/or phase noise above the transmit frequency.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2019-10-11 3:19 PM, Doug Person wrote:
Is there any modern-day equivalent to the old Johnson Matchbox? I use 
several different MFJ tuners with good results. My favorite is the 
"Differential-T" 986 which tunes everything with very little effort. I 
don't actually know how efficient it is but it tunes my 132' doublet fed 
with 450 ohm ladder line very well. I use the antenna mostly on 
160-80-60-40-30 where it seems to perform well. The ladder-line comes to 
a 1:1 high power balun just outside the shack and 10' of rg213 comes 
inside to the tuner. The only interesting observation is that it seems 
noisier  than my multi-band trapped dipole - as much as 1-2 s units 
sometimes. Otherwise, if I only had one antenna it would be the doublet. 
Very versatile. The tuner gives the rig a good under 1.5:1 match 160 
through 6.

73, Doug -- KJØF




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Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Bill]

Might I suggest a Common Mode Filter, such as that sold my myantennas.com?

My standby antenna is an endfed half-wave from the same source. It hangs 
from the eve corner and is noisy - the kind of noise that comes from 
today's modern household. I put a CMC Filter on it right at the bulkhead 
here in the shack. The antenna is now as quiet as my NVIS a hundred feet 
from the house - which is no local noise at all.


I have used the coax through the wall to a balun and 4" feeder with 
excellent success with a PalStar AT2KD (very similar to the MFJ tuner 
you mentioned).



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Re: [Elecraft] F/S Elecraft W2 Wattmeter + three couplers SOLD

[Joe Hall]

Item has been sold.
 
 
--
Joe Hall 
 
 
From: Joseph Hall  
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 2:29 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: F/S Elecraft W2 Wattmeter + three couplers
 
For sale is one Elecraft W2 wattmeter in "like new condition" with all three 
directional couplers (1.8-54 200W; 1.8-54 2000W; and 144-450 200W), KXUSB 
cable, power cable with powerpoles on one end, and A/C adapter that works with 
the W2.  Note that the directional couplers are the early version that do not 
work with the P3 panadapter.

$300 shipped via USPS Priority Mail to US locations.  Payment via paypal +3% or 
personal check (with delay until check clears).  

Contact info:  Joe Hall (WB1M), 13 Low Road, Hanover, NH 03755.  
Email: j...@ioka.net    

Thanks!
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Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Doug Person]

Is there any modern-day equivalent to the old Johnson Matchbox? I use 
several different MFJ tuners with good results. My favorite is the 
"Differential-T" 986 which tunes everything with very little effort. I 
don't actually know how efficient it is but it tunes my 132' doublet fed 
with 450 ohm ladder line very well. I use the antenna mostly on 
160-80-60-40-30 where it seems to perform well. The ladder-line comes to 
a 1:1 high power balun just outside the shack and 10' of rg213 comes 
inside to the tuner. The only interesting observation is that it seems 
noisier  than my multi-band trapped dipole - as much as 1-2 s units 
sometimes. Otherwise, if I only had one antenna it would be the doublet. 
Very versatile. The tuner gives the rig a good under 1.5:1 match 160 
through 6.

73, Doug -- KJØF

On 10/10/2019 11:59 PM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

You bet. The Johnson Matchbox is as good as any expensive band pass filter.

Victor 4X6GP


On 11 Oct 2019, at 2:57, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:


The one "multiband" antenna one can use in a multi-transmitter
configuration is the flat-top with open wire feeders and a
*Link coupled* tuner.  The link coupled tuner is a bandpass filter
that significantly reduces harmonic/broadband noise just like the
"Q" of a single band antenna.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV



On 2019-10-10 7:44 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
Bob,
Bandpass filters at each station will help a lot, but they do not have infinite 
out of band rejection.
There is still a huge benefit with single band antennas.  My club uses both.
Last Field Day (3F operation) one station got on the air with a multiband 
vertical, and all other operators jumped on that operator to shut him down 
quickly!  The multi-band antenna radiated harmonics of the radio.  Even though 
the transmitter met the -43 dB harmonic required by the FCC, the proximity of 
the multiband antenna to other antennas caused problems (that station was not 
using a bandpass filter).
So for Field Day multi-station operation, single band antennas, bandpass 
filters and transmitters with low phase noise are important.  We were not able 
to orient the antennas end to end due to space considerations at the EOC site, 
so we had to compromise on that, which makes the other factors very important.
I need to point out that as an experiment, a 2nd station used an antenna on 20 
meters separated from the main 20 meters, and we were able to operate one on CW 
(K3) at the same time as the other station (Icom) used digital and SSB modes.  
We had some mutual interference, but it was minimal.  The K3 did not interfere 
much with the Icom due to the K3's low phase noise, but the Icom did raise the 
background noise level on the K3.
73,
Don W3FPR

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--
73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Bill Frantz]

In WVARA, we have very good success running several bands on the 
same antenna at the same time using triplexers. We set up our 
triband yagis parallel to each other so they are in each other's 
low-gain area. We have been able to operate CW, SSB, and digital 
on the same band at the same time.


The other things besides well-spaced antenna towers and the 
triplexer that make this operation possible are using radios 
with very good receivers and transmitters, currently only 
Elecraft and Flex are used, and operating QRP. Since we have 
scored in the top ten for the last 10 or so years, this is a 
successful formula.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 10/10/19 at 4:44 PM, donw...@embarqmail.com (Don Wilhelm) wrote:

Bandpass filters at each station will help a lot, but they do 
not have infinite out of band rejection.

There is still a huge benefit with single band antennas.  My club uses both.

Last Field Day (3F operation) one station got on the air with a 
multiband vertical, and all other operators jumped on that 
operator to shut him down quickly!  The multi-band antenna 
radiated harmonics of the radio.  Even though the transmitter 
met the -43 dB harmonic required by the FCC, the proximity of 
the multiband antenna to other antennas caused problems (that 
station was not using a bandpass filter).


So for Field Day multi-station operation, single band antennas, 
bandpass filters and transmitters with low phase noise are 
important.  We were not able to orient the antennas end to end 
due to space considerations at the EOC site, so we had to 
compromise on that, which makes the other factors very important.


I need to point out that as an experiment, a 2nd station used 
an antenna on 20 meters separated from the main 20 meters, and 
we were able to operate one on CW (K3) at the same time as the 
other station (Icom) used digital and SSB modes.  We had some 
mutual interference, but it was minimal.  The K3 did not 
interfere much with the Icom due to the K3's low phase noise, 
but the Icom did raise the background noise level on the K3.

---
Bill Frantz| gets() remains as a monument | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | to C's continuing support of | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | buffer overruns. | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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[Elecraft] F/S Elecraft W2 Wattmeter + three couplers

[Joseph Hall]

For sale is one Elecraft W2 wattmeter in "like new condition" with all
three directional couplers (1.8-54 200W; 1.8-54 2000W; and 144-450 200W),
KXUSB cable, power cable with powerpoles on one end, and A/C adapter that
works with the W2.  Note that the directional couplers are the early
version that do not work with the P3 panadapter.

$300 shipped via USPS Priority Mail to US locations.  Payment via paypal
+3% or personal check (with delay until check clears).

Contact info:  Joe Hall (WB1M), 13 Low Road, Hanover, NH 03755.
Email: j...@ioka.net

Thanks!
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Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Edward R Cole]

A simple way to make a center-fed half-wave dipole multi-band is by 
using alligator clips to disconnect outer section a dipole in order 
to run on a higher freq band.


Simple make a dipole for the lowest freq of interest and then cut the 
wires at the length for the higher band, attach an alligator clip on 
the end of the shorter wires and connect the end wires to the shorter 
wires by use of a small nylon cord.


We made 80/40m dipoles for use on the Iditarod Sled Dog Race in this 
manner and its called an: "Iditarod Special".


Most of the remote checkpoint stations use this for an antenna 
running 100w HF radios to provide race communications support back to 
Anchorage HQ (Often distances of several hundred miles).  Often the 
temporary dipoles were hung pretty low to the ground so they operated NVIS.


Side Note: I just disconnected my old Drake MN-2000 tuner as the 
auto-tuner in my KXPA100 does the job easily.  I use either KX3 or K3 with it.


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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[Elecraft] Looking to sell a 100 watt K3s and P3 in the Philadelphia, PA area. Excellent condition but I don't want to ship. w3...@yahoo.com

[Patrick Taylor via Elecraft]

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Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Jim Brown]

On 10/11/2019 5:32 AM, Wes wrote:
I don't suppose your callsign has anything to do with the success of 
your antennas.


Vic's original call was K2VCO. As kids, we worked on 40M traffic nets 
before heading out to high school in the '50s. We reconnected about 15 
years ago after he and I had both moved to W6. Vic knows whereof he speaks.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Phil Kane]

On 10/11/2019 5:32 AM, Wes wrote:

> I don't suppose your callsign [ 4X6GP ] has anything to do with the success of
> your antennas.:-)

When I was 4X4UQ in the mid-1960s I had to beat off the Europeans while
running 75 watts into a tri-bander about 1 meter above the roof of a
4-story cinder-black building.  Elecraft products weren't available yet
but the TX was a Hallicrafters HT32B, RX was a Hallicrafters SX101.  I
still got 55 countries in almost 2 years with just casual QSOs.

Those were the days!--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] [K2] DXE Clifton Labs Z10000 Buffer Amp

[Jim KO5V]

Yes, me too...


>>Thanks for the tip, Don.  Been preparing coax cables for years the hard (and 
>>wrong) way.
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 10, 2019, at 3:02 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
>> 
>> Clark and all,
>> 
>> The secret to stripping the outer insulation from ANY coax (including the 
>> RG178) is to first score the outer insulation a bit (not trying to cut all 
>> the way to the shield), then bend the cable at the score mark which will 
>> stretch the insulation a bit - then a light touch with the blade will cause 
>> the insulation to split all the way down to the shield.
>> Rotate the cable to the other side and do the 'bend and touch' thing again.  
>> You should then be able to slide the insulation off the shield.
>> 
>> Separate the shield strands and split them into two groups - twist the 
>> strands on one half and cut the rest away.
>> 
>> You can do the same "score, bend and touch" operation to the center 
>> conductor if you do not have good wire cutters to strip it.  Do not nick the 
>> conductor, or it will break after it is soldered.
>> 
>> The other thing many hams do not realize is that the braid of the shield 
>> should NOT be filled with solder (making it stiff).  Solder only  the tip as 
>> far in as necessary to make the connection.  If soldered stiff, it will 
>> usually break either where it is soldered to the board or connector or at 
>> the point where the braid exits the coax.
>> I have replaced the input coax on many KPA100s and KAT2s that were broken 
>> because the shield was soldered stiff.
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Re: [Elecraft] [K2] DXE Clifton Labs Z10000 Buffer Amp

[Clark Macaulay]

Thanks for the tip, Don.  Been preparing coax cables for years the hard (and 
wrong) way.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 10, 2019, at 3:02 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Clark and all,
> 
> The secret to stripping the outer insulation from ANY coax (including the 
> RG178) is to first score the outer insulation a bit (not trying to cut all 
> the way to the shield), then bend the cable at the score mark which will 
> stretch the insulation a bit - then a light touch with the blade will cause 
> the insulation to split all the way down to the shield.
> Rotate the cable to the other side and do the 'bend and touch' thing again.  
> You should then be able to slide the insulation off the shield.
> 
> Separate the shield strands and split them into two groups - twist the 
> strands on one half and cut the rest away.
> 
> You can do the same "score, bend and touch" operation to the center conductor 
> if you do not have good wire cutters to strip it.  Do not nick the conductor, 
> or it will break after it is soldered.
> 
> The other thing many hams do not realize is that the braid of the shield 
> should NOT be filled with solder (making it stiff).  Solder only  the tip as 
> far in as necessary to make the connection.  If soldered stiff, it will 
> usually break either where it is soldered to the board or connector or at the 
> point where the braid exits the coax.
> I have replaced the input coax on many KPA100s and KAT2s that were broken 
> because the shield was soldered stiff.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
>> On 10/10/2019 2:27 PM, Clark Macaulay wrote:
>> Helps a lot, Jim.
>> Yes...you answered my question in that you have done it.  So, I'll set
>> aside a morning where I swear off coffee (steadier hands) and using a new
>> razor blade give it a try.  Didn't know the cable in the kit is RG178 which
>> is about 30% smaller than RG174.  I don't see anyplace on the board to tack
>> on a RG174 cable as the pads for the SMT components are so small.  It's
>> actually a beautiful board.
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Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Rick WA6NHC]

Lyn,

That was at the old QTH in CA, here I'm using an inverted L for most 
bands (temporarily) and a dipole for 80M (which came down in a 
windstorm, couldn't take the weight of the 10' branch that hit it).  The 
match for 80M on the L is well beyond the range of the KAT500.


I'm shifting to a SteppIR DB36 (80-6M) and will single band the Inverted 
L.  The tower is up, I'm assembling the antenna now, in a race to beat 
winter (already snowed twice in the last two weeks).


Next year, I'll make a new L in a better location and add a tuning 
circuit to the L to allow it to resonate on 80/160M, giving me an option 
for 80, rotatable dipole or vertical (and two RBOG) or diversity a few 
different ways. Because of the lower noise here, the L plays well on 
160M and I've enjoyed spending considerable time on the band.


My original point was to encourage simply putting up some wire; it will 
radiate and it's a cheap and fun way to learn.  Center fed makes it much 
easier to tame (but that depends on what each leg is near too).  Because 
of local conditions (and lack of height), my dipole was 370', ~60' of 
450 ohm window line, 4:1 common mode choke, 10' of coax.  It had plenty 
of pointy pattern spikes, not always in the needed direction and on 40M 
it absolutely ROCKED.  It was specifically NON-resonant on any ham band 
yet provided some gain on most bands, once the tuner managed the load.


Even the existing (will be moved/rebuilt next spring) 160M Inverted L 
was a 20 minute install that shouldn't work(but gave me over 100 Top 
Band DX contacts last winter); simply a piece of wire over a tree (at 
65'), a 1:1 CMC bonded to a water pipe for counterpoise (NOT efficient) 
and coax to the shack.  It's brought a lot of fun to ham radio (now that 
I can hear without sub/urban noise).


73,
Rick wa6nhc
North Idaho

On 10/11/2019 8:52 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

Rick -

You may have a balun issue. I had problems too until I switched to the 1:1 / 
4:1 hybrid (based on antenna analyzer measurements).  And now, 160m matches 
fine for me.  In fact, I made over 200 contacts (FT8, and mostly stateside) on 
160m last week.

The KAT500 is "supposedly" limited to matching up to a 10:1 SWR.  That added 
4:1 balun really brought the 160m impedance down to a manageable (and matchable) level.

My ladder line feed is about 160 feet, then the balun, and finally about 13 
feet of RG8XU to the KAT500.

73
Lyn, WØLEN

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rick WA6NHC
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 6:17 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

I have over 200 countries on a similar antenna, though I had to use
another tuner than the KAT500, for 160M. Average height was about 35'.

Just keep the coax short, like under 10' and as much center fed wire as
you can put in the air, it'll play.  It won't rock your world, it'll
make you work for some of the DX, but that teaches patience and
operating technique, still win-win.

Rick nhc


On 10/10/2019 1:56 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

I'm having great success with a horizontal center-fed "dipole" that has been sized (360 
feet long) to be an Extended Double Zepp (4.7 dbi gain) and cut for the low end of 80 meters.  I 
feed it with 600 ohm "True" Ladder Line from a Balun Designs Hybrid Balun (1:1 Current 
and 4:1 Voltage all in one case).  A short run of coax from the balun to my KAT500, and I am in 
business at any frequency on 160 - 6 meters.

It's oriented to be an effective NVIS radiator in a N-S pattern on 80m, by design, and to 
have major lobes on the other bands in other directions - also by design.  For me, it's 
the most efficient and effective way to utilize our lot space (400 feet clear) and still 
be "under the radar" in our HOA.

Birds seem to like it, and I find that it seems to be especially attractive to 
Hummingbirds, my XYL's favorites.  A win-win, in my book.

73
Lyn, WØLEN


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Al Lorona
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 3:25 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; David Gilbert
Subject: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

My experience with single vertical or sloping wires is exactly the same as AB7E's. I 
have, over almost twice as many Field Days as Dave, come to a similar conclusion, with 
the slight difference being my preference for an "all-band dipole" fed with 
balanced line. This obviates the balun and reduces feedline loss to negligible, so 
obviously I am maximizing efficiency at the expense of any other possible advantage. (I 
can usually hear much better than I can be heard... so thus far this has been a valid 
decision.)

To sum up what I and what I think Dave are saying, you can't beat a horizontal, 
center-fed wire up as high as you can get it. Its simplicity, the flexibility 
it gives you to QSY (with a good tuner), and its high 

Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Wow! We're way over the single topic posting limit on this thread. Let's end it 
for now in the interest of helping others survive email overload.


73,
Eric
/mooderator.. elecraft.com/

On 10/11/2019 8:52 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

Rick -

You may have a balun issue. I had problems too until I switched to the 1:1 / 
4:1 hybrid (based on antenna analyzer measurements).  And now, 160m matches 
fine for me.  In fact, I made over 200 contacts (FT8, and mostly stateside) on 
160m last week.

The KAT500 is "supposedly" limited to matching up to a 10:1 SWR.  That added 
4:1 balun really brought the 160m impedance down to a manageable (and matchable) level.

My ladder line feed is about 160 feet, then the balun, and finally about 13 
feet of RG8XU to the KAT500.

73
Lyn, WØLEN



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Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Lyn Norstad]

Rick -

You may have a balun issue. I had problems too until I switched to the 1:1 / 
4:1 hybrid (based on antenna analyzer measurements).  And now, 160m matches 
fine for me.  In fact, I made over 200 contacts (FT8, and mostly stateside) on 
160m last week.  

The KAT500 is "supposedly" limited to matching up to a 10:1 SWR.  That added 
4:1 balun really brought the 160m impedance down to a manageable (and 
matchable) level. 

My ladder line feed is about 160 feet, then the balun, and finally about 13 
feet of RG8XU to the KAT500.

73
Lyn, WØLEN

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rick WA6NHC
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 6:17 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

I have over 200 countries on a similar antenna, though I had to use 
another tuner than the KAT500, for 160M. Average height was about 35'.

Just keep the coax short, like under 10' and as much center fed wire as 
you can put in the air, it'll play.  It won't rock your world, it'll 
make you work for some of the DX, but that teaches patience and 
operating technique, still win-win.

Rick nhc


On 10/10/2019 1:56 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:
> I'm having great success with a horizontal center-fed "dipole" that has been 
> sized (360 feet long) to be an Extended Double Zepp (4.7 dbi gain) and cut 
> for the low end of 80 meters.  I feed it with 600 ohm "True" Ladder Line from 
> a Balun Designs Hybrid Balun (1:1 Current and 4:1 Voltage all in one case).  
> A short run of coax from the balun to my KAT500, and I am in business at any 
> frequency on 160 - 6 meters.
>
> It's oriented to be an effective NVIS radiator in a N-S pattern on 80m, by 
> design, and to have major lobes on the other bands in other directions - also 
> by design.  For me, it's the most efficient and effective way to utilize our 
> lot space (400 feet clear) and still be "under the radar" in our HOA.
>
> Birds seem to like it, and I find that it seems to be especially attractive 
> to Hummingbirds, my XYL's favorites.  A win-win, in my book.
>
> 73
> Lyn, WØLEN
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Al Lorona
> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 3:25 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; David Gilbert
> Subject: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas
>
> My experience with single vertical or sloping wires is exactly the same as 
> AB7E's. I have, over almost twice as many Field Days as Dave, come to a 
> similar conclusion, with the slight difference being my preference for an 
> "all-band dipole" fed with balanced line. This obviates the balun and reduces 
> feedline loss to negligible, so obviously I am maximizing efficiency at the 
> expense of any other possible advantage. (I can usually hear much better than 
> I can be heard... so thus far this has been a valid decision.)
>
> To sum up what I and what I think Dave are saying, you can't beat a 
> horizontal, center-fed wire up as high as you can get it. Its simplicity, the 
> flexibility it gives you to QSY (with a good tuner), and its high efficiency 
> are almost unbeatable.
>
> As a side note, the center-fed horizontal wire I have used here at home is 
> totally non-resonant. I don't even know how long it is. Once you give up the 
> obsession with resonant antenna length, you gain a huge freedom of choice.
>
> In the bottom of the sunspot cycle, these advantages are somewhat reduced 
> because an op, especially on Field Day, might opt to forget about any band 
> higher than 20 meters -- and these days even 20 is questionable. This means 
> you can probably make do with coaxial cable and a balun for operation on 2 or 
> 3 bands but the general idea still holds.
>
> Al  W6LX
>
>
>> Yes, a center fed normal dipole with the middle (high current portion)
>> higher off the ground (say 50 feet for 40m) and a common mode choke at
>> the feedpoint would almost assuredly perform better.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave   AB7E
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Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Martin Sole]

Ha ha, that's a good one, I too have a 20dB callsign. Not always but I'm 
sure on occasion it helps. I often get 10 to 20 over nine reports 
running 100 watts to a 2 element (Force 12 C3 @ 24m) from Europe when 
more powerful stations from there make only 5-6 to 5-7 here.


Martin, HS0ZED



On 11/10/2019 19:32, Wes wrote:
I don't suppose your callsign has anything to do with the success of 
your antennas.:-)


Wes  N7WS

On 10/10/2019 10:54 PM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

Things I’ve learned by experience:

In 63 years as a ham, I’ve had several :-) HF antennas. The ones that 
gave me the greatest overall satisfaction have been balanced, 
horizontal antennas. The worst have been verticals with inadequate 
radial systems or low random-length wires. Inverted Vs with angles 
less than 90 degrees between the wires are not much good, either.


There is no simpler way to make an efficient multiband antenna than 
to feed a dipole of at least 1/2 wavelength at the lowest frequency 
with open wire line. With some care in choosing the length of the 
line, a 1/4 wave dipole can work almost as well. I’ve worked over 300 
countries on CW in the last 5 years on the bands from 40-10m with a 
10m long rotary dipole, in an urban area (it is up 35m on a building 
and I run a kW, I admit). I regularly bust pileups on 40m with it.


1:1 baluns work to feed open wire lines, but can become inefficient 
in some circumstances and heat up. It’s possible to solve this by 
compensating for reactance with a pair of capacitors or inductors 
before the balun, but a better solution is a true balanced antenna 
tuner.


“True Ladder Line” is a good product, but it’s easy to make your own, 
and you can use no. 12 (2 mm) wire for lower loss.


Sometimes a 4:1 balun may give a better match, but it will be less 
efficient (heat) and do a poorer job of keeping RF out of the shack.


Nothing has worked better for me at cleaning up RF in the shack than 
an old Johnson Matchbox, a true balanced tuner.


Victor 4X6GP


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Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Wes]

I don't suppose your callsign has anything to do with the success of your 
antennas.:-)


Wes  N7WS

On 10/10/2019 10:54 PM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

Things I’ve learned by experience:

In 63 years as a ham, I’ve had several :-) HF antennas. The ones that gave me 
the greatest overall satisfaction have been balanced, horizontal antennas. The 
worst have been verticals with inadequate radial systems or low random-length 
wires. Inverted Vs with angles less than 90 degrees between the wires are not 
much good, either.

There is no simpler way to make an efficient multiband antenna than to feed a 
dipole of at least 1/2 wavelength at the lowest frequency with open wire line. 
With some care in choosing the length of the line, a 1/4 wave dipole can work 
almost as well. I’ve worked over 300 countries on CW in the last 5 years on the 
bands from 40-10m with a 10m long rotary dipole, in an urban area (it is up 35m 
on a building and I run a kW, I admit). I regularly bust pileups on 40m with it.

1:1 baluns work to feed open wire lines, but can become inefficient in some 
circumstances and heat up. It’s possible to solve this by compensating for 
reactance with a pair of capacitors or inductors before the balun, but a better 
solution is a true balanced antenna tuner.

“True Ladder Line” is a good product, but it’s easy to make your own, and you 
can use no. 12 (2 mm) wire for lower loss.

Sometimes a 4:1 balun may give a better match, but it will be less efficient 
(heat) and do a poorer job of keeping RF out of the shack.

Nothing has worked better for me at cleaning up RF in the shack than an old 
Johnson Matchbox, a true balanced tuner.

Victor 4X6GP


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[Elecraft] K$ Delivery Europe

[Ray Spreadbury via Elecraft]

Well,... I was the one who made the $ typo accidentally in the first place
but I too thought it a bit tongue in cheek & appropriate, so I did not
correct it. 

Someone else has made the later Euope typo!

Ray G3XLG

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Re: [Elecraft] KX2 Antenna Curiosity

[rich hurd WC3T]

Simple is good

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 07:07 Gwen Patton  wrote:

> I have a KX3 instead of a KX2, but I frequently go out in the field to play
> radio at local parks and other scenic spots. I have a number of antennas,
> but one of my favorites is one I built recently, a link dipole for 40, 30,
> and 20. It's tuned for the CW portions of the bands, so it doesn't need
> much tuning, but if I want to work phone I hit the internal tuner just to
> tweak it a little bit. I suspend it on top of a 20-foot telescopic
> fiberglass pole from SOTABeams, secured in a drive-on mount and held down
> by one of the tires of my E-150 conversion van. I run it in inverted-V
> configuration, using stakes or photographers' sandbags at the far ends if
> the location doesn't like stakes.
>
> I didn't bother with baluns or anything. I just wired the coax to the
> midpoint and trimmed it up that way using an analyzer. I get good results
> with it on CW or phone, easily going from the Philadelphia suburbs to the
> Michigan Upper Penninsula on 40m phone with 10 watts. If I find that I'm
> getting stray RF, I have a big isolator choke I can run the line through
> that clobbers it nicely.
>
> 73,
> Gwen, NG3P
>
> On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 6:55 AM CUTTER DAVID via Elecraft <
> elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>
> > I'd like to suggest that one very good reason for using centre-fed and
> > external matching unit is because the harmonic pickup from nearby
> stations
> > is much reduced compared to multi-band antennas.  This is best
> implemented
> > when the antenna is as near perfectly balanced as possible to avoid
> > feedline pickup.  A *proper* choke to cancel out-of-balance currents
> should
> > be helpful in this regard.
> >
> > For single station field days, I've used the Spiderbeam 807
> off-centre-fed
> > inverted V dipole on a f/g pole which is a fast way to get on air without
> > an external matching unit to fiddle with. Common mode current is
> virtually
> > zero. It's a great solution for beginners reducing the fiddle factor, ie
> > plug and play KISS.  Less to carry out into the field as well.
> >
> > David G3UNA/G6CP
> > __
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> >
>
>
> --
>
> -+-+-+-+-
> Jenny Everywhere's Infinite: Quark Time
> http://quarktime.net
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-- 
72,
Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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Re: [Elecraft] KX2 Antenna Curiosity

[Gwen Patton]

I have a KX3 instead of a KX2, but I frequently go out in the field to play
radio at local parks and other scenic spots. I have a number of antennas,
but one of my favorites is one I built recently, a link dipole for 40, 30,
and 20. It's tuned for the CW portions of the bands, so it doesn't need
much tuning, but if I want to work phone I hit the internal tuner just to
tweak it a little bit. I suspend it on top of a 20-foot telescopic
fiberglass pole from SOTABeams, secured in a drive-on mount and held down
by one of the tires of my E-150 conversion van. I run it in inverted-V
configuration, using stakes or photographers' sandbags at the far ends if
the location doesn't like stakes.

I didn't bother with baluns or anything. I just wired the coax to the
midpoint and trimmed it up that way using an analyzer. I get good results
with it on CW or phone, easily going from the Philadelphia suburbs to the
Michigan Upper Penninsula on 40m phone with 10 watts. If I find that I'm
getting stray RF, I have a big isolator choke I can run the line through
that clobbers it nicely.

73,
Gwen, NG3P

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 6:55 AM CUTTER DAVID via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> I'd like to suggest that one very good reason for using centre-fed and
> external matching unit is because the harmonic pickup from nearby stations
> is much reduced compared to multi-band antennas.  This is best implemented
> when the antenna is as near perfectly balanced as possible to avoid
> feedline pickup.  A *proper* choke to cancel out-of-balance currents should
> be helpful in this regard.
>
> For single station field days, I've used the Spiderbeam 807 off-centre-fed
> inverted V dipole on a f/g pole which is a fast way to get on air without
> an external matching unit to fiddle with. Common mode current is virtually
> zero. It's a great solution for beginners reducing the fiddle factor, ie
> plug and play KISS.  Less to carry out into the field as well.
>
> David G3UNA/G6CP
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-- 

-+-+-+-+-
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http://quarktime.net
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Re: [Elecraft] KX2 Antenna Curiosity

[CUTTER DAVID via Elecraft]

I'd like to suggest that one very good reason for using centre-fed and external 
matching unit is because the harmonic pickup from nearby stations is much 
reduced compared to multi-band antennas.  This is best implemented when the 
antenna is as near perfectly balanced as possible to avoid feedline pickup.  A 
*proper* choke to cancel out-of-balance currents should be helpful in this 
regard. 

For single station field days, I've used the Spiderbeam 807 off-centre-fed 
inverted V dipole on a f/g pole which is a fast way to get on air without an 
external matching unit to fiddle with. Common mode current is virtually zero. 
It's a great solution for beginners reducing the fiddle factor, ie plug and 
play KISS.  Less to carry out into the field as well. 

David G3UNA/G6CP
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Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Richard Corfield]

I don't do field day. I've been using monoband dipoles so far for portable
operations due to cost and weight constraints. They work incredibly well,
and I hope to go out with a high Q antenna for 30m and a long pole to try
end fed vertical. (My long pole seems stuck in the post! Courier emailed.).
That said, an antenna which really should be 30m only due to its resonant
matching circuit can be operated on neighbouring bands using the KX3's
tuner. I've had contacts over reasonable distance on 40m with it.

The multiband antennae seem attractive for things like SOTA and single
station operation. At the moment I need to drop my antenna and change links
around to change band. It doesn't take too long to be fair. I'll experiment
with a multiband off centre fed antenna which, even if it ends up too heavy
to carry up a mountain, could make a useful home station antenna. At the
moment my portable setup is set up in the garden but I wonder how well the
home made antenna will stand up to our increasingly winter weather.

 - Richard


On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 at 00:57, Al Lorona  wrote:

> Fair enough, but it kinda goes without saying that in a group FD with 1
> station per band they'll use resonant, single-band antennas. If this is our
> best argument against the 'multiband dipole', then that antenna still holds
> its own pretty well in a multitude of other situations.
>
> I have always found a deep resistance and opposition to this antenna.
> Whether it's an unwillingness to use antenna tuners, which many hams have,
> or an undue fear of noise, which some hams have, or a belief that open-wire
> line is noisier/weirder/harder/impossible-to-go-through-walls, which many
> hams believe, the visceral reaction against this antenna always amazes and
> baffles me.
>
> Please forgive my belligerence... the Dodgers lost and I've been in a sour
> mood all day.
>
> Al  W6LX
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Re: [Elecraft] Center-fed antennas

[Vic Rosenthal]

You bet. The Johnson Matchbox is as good as any expensive band pass filter.

Victor 4X6GP 

> On 11 Oct 2019, at 2:57, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
> 
> 
> The one "multiband" antenna one can use in a multi-transmitter
> configuration is the flat-top with open wire feeders and a
> *Link coupled* tuner.  The link coupled tuner is a bandpass filter
> that significantly reduces harmonic/broadband noise just like the
> "Q" of a single band antenna.
> 
> 73,
> 
>   ... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
>> On 2019-10-10 7:44 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Bob,
>> Bandpass filters at each station will help a lot, but they do not have 
>> infinite out of band rejection.
>> There is still a huge benefit with single band antennas.  My club uses both.
>> Last Field Day (3F operation) one station got on the air with a multiband 
>> vertical, and all other operators jumped on that operator to shut him down 
>> quickly!  The multi-band antenna radiated harmonics of the radio.  Even 
>> though the transmitter met the -43 dB harmonic required by the FCC, the 
>> proximity of the multiband antenna to other antennas caused problems (that 
>> station was not using a bandpass filter).
>> So for Field Day multi-station operation, single band antennas, bandpass 
>> filters and transmitters with low phase noise are important.  We were not 
>> able to orient the antennas end to end due to space considerations at the 
>> EOC site, so we had to compromise on that, which makes the other factors 
>> very important.
>> I need to point out that as an experiment, a 2nd station used an antenna on 
>> 20 meters separated from the main 20 meters, and we were able to operate one 
>> on CW (K3) at the same time as the other station (Icom) used digital and SSB 
>> modes.  We had some mutual interference, but it was minimal.  The K3 did not 
>> interfere much with the Icom due to the K3's low phase noise, but the Icom 
>> did raise the background noise level on the K3.
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
> 
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