[Elecraft] Elecraft CW Net Announcement

[kevinr]

Good Evening,

   I hiked along the southern edge of my property today.  Much of the 
alder that had blown down in 2007 has crumbled into soil.  I found it 
easier to traverse as did a number of elk.  They were cutting across 
from the intermittent stream to get to the canyon on the other side.  
After the thinning there's not much for them to eat yet, they're just 
passing through for now.  Once I got to near the middle I found a cross 
path leading to the marsh east of here.


   I checked forty meters just after sunset.  Some activity from 2 land 
and then from someone in 6 calling a 7.  It may be time to move the net 
times one hour or more later.  Comments and recommendations would be nice.


   I have also been thinking of trying something on a mid-week 
evening.  On forty or eighty meters.  Kind of an open meeting area for 
discussions and contacts.  Not a directed net but some means of passing 
control around would be good.  It would be nice to have something for 
the SSB, digital, RTTY, and SSTV folks as well as those of us who use 
CW.  A Wednesday or Thursday night at or near the watering holes for the 
various modes.  A round robin net where control passes from one op to 
the next with the last person calling CQ to find the next victim.  Pass 
control around the circle a few times until all questions have been 
asked and answered.  Once again comments and recommendations are requested.



Please join us on (or near):

14050 kHz at 2200z Sunday (3 PM PDT Sunday)
  7047 kHz at z Monday (5 PM PDT Sunday)

   73,
  Kevin. KD5ONS


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[Elecraft] Power Supplies and Voltage drop

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

{I changed the topic for good reason.}    Was " K3S poor CW keying 
further investigation"


Lee brings up a good point with regard to power supply terminals.

If you have one of those power supplies that have the terminals with a 
set screw in the side, you are limited to the number or wires or wire 
size which can be correctly inserted.


Here is what I did to remedy the situation.    I obtained two 10-32 x 2" 
brass screws from the hardware store.  I got 4 nuts, 2 for each screw, 4 
flat washers, 2 for each screw and two wing nuts.   I then cut the head 
off of each screw and filed a flat spot about 1/2 " long and deep enough 
to removed the threads. This modified screw was then inserted into the 
power supply terminal so that the flat spot aligned with the set screw. 
Tighten the set screw.  Then run two of the nuts on the protruding 
screw, just up to the power supply connector, but not tight against it,  
and the second nut against the first to form a jam-nut.  Add a flat 
washer, add all the ring terminals you wish, and then a flat washer and 
finally the wing nut.   Do the same for the other terminal.   Now you 
have plenty of stud length and have not actually modified your power 
supply.  Some fear making modifications for fear of loosing warranty 
coverage.


As a bonus, should you desire to remove the power supply, loosen the set 
screws on the power supply connector and pull out the entire bolt/stud 
assembly, ring terminals and wires, leaving them attached.   Only one 
set screw to loosen removes the entire assembly.  Now how neat is that?


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 4/25/2020 9:50 PM, Leroy Buller wrote:

Chuck, I am late to this discussion so I might be saying things that
already been said.  I found the same issue.  Voltage down to 11.5 volts on
any ps I used.  So, I found the issue was power pole connectors that were
to light.  Look for power pole connectors that handle 30 amps or so.  Power
poles come in different amperage with the same shell.  Don't get fooled
with that.  I did.

Then I limited the cable to 24 inches.  #10 wire and higher current power
poles.  Voltage dropped fro. 13.8 to 13.1 at 100 watts .

Somebody said that DC systems act significantly to resistance.   Lower the
resistance to the smallest number is what I tried to do.

Some ps have funky connectors o. The back, and might have to jigger those
to bolts and nuts.  I opted to use sleeves crimped on the end of the wire,
soldered, and then stuffed in the connector.   The set screws were replace
with machine bolts and tighten but you cannot over tighten because the
threads might strip.


Lee K0WA

O


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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Leroy Buller]

Chuck, I am late to this discussion so I might be saying things that
already been said.  I found the same issue.  Voltage down to 11.5 volts on
any ps I used.  So, I found the issue was power pole connectors that were
to light.  Look for power pole connectors that handle 30 amps or so.  Power
poles come in different amperage with the same shell.  Don't get fooled
with that.  I did.

Then I limited the cable to 24 inches.  #10 wire and higher current power
poles.  Voltage dropped fro. 13.8 to 13.1 at 100 watts .

Somebody said that DC systems act significantly to resistance.   Lower the
resistance to the smallest number is what I tried to do.

Some ps have funky connectors o. The back, and might have to jigger those
to bolts and nuts.  I opted to use sleeves crimped on the end of the wire,
soldered, and then stuffed in the connector.   The set screws were replace
with machine bolts and tighten but you cannot over tighten because the
threads might strip.


Lee K0WA

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 7:14 AM Chuck Chandler  wrote:

> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common factor
> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
> rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.
>
> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous.  At rest
> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to 11.5
> or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable thru a
> RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power supply from the
> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>
> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?
>
> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>
> --
>
>
> ===
> Chuck Chandler
> chandler...@gmail.com
> ===
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Re: [Elecraft] Power supply V drop - was poor CW on K3S

[K8TE]

This is a huge misperception that is very dangerous!  If the power supply
(PSU) doesn't have an in-line fuse on the 12VDC, then you're taking a grave
chance should a short occur in the cable between the PSU and radio.  Ask
folks who have set their cars on fire.

Like a battery, there should be a fuse at the PSU to open should the 12VDC
supply lead short.  Some will whine about Voltage drop, but safety is far
more important to me.  The K3 internal meter will indicate the Voltage at
the rear APP.

73, Bill, K8TE



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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Victor Rosenthal]

Power poles are fine, if they are installed according to directions. Rig 
runners are OK for accessories and QRP rigs, but if your K2 has the 
amplifier it should be connected directly to the power supply.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/


On 25/04/2020 17:15, Don Schroder wrote:

Bob,

Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or RigRunner 
equipment?

For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?

I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!

Gunny, KE0PVQ

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gmail
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
To: Bob McGraw K4TAX
Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is 
reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run 14.0 out of supply.
Ray
W8LYJ

Sent from my iPad


On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:

As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE TRASH where it 
belongs.NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a 100 
watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply terminals.   
NO exceptions!

73

Bob, K4TAX



On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common factor
in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.

I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous.  At rest
the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to 11.5
or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable thru a
RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power supply from the
packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.

Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?

73 de Chuck, WS1L



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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[hawley, charles j jr]

Wonder what the time constant is for a remote sense power supply.

Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
c-haw...@illinois.edu

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 2:00 PM, Pete Lascell  wrote:
> 
> To bad the power supply doesn't have remote voltage sense to regulate at the 
> far end of the 12 volt power cable.
> Pete W4WWQ
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: 4/25/2020 2:47:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
> 
> 
> Hi Pete, 
> 
> 
> The K3 100 watt power amplifier includes a 25 amp circuit breaker 
> on the rear panel of your radio. The rest of the K3 electronics is 
> protected by an internal 5 amp self resetting fuse. 
> 
> 
> There's absolutely no need for external fuses, except in a mobile 
> installation 
> where external fuses are required in both the positive and negative power 
> leads to avoid a possibly disastrous automotive fire. 
> 
> 
> 73 
> Frank 
> W3LPL 
> 
> - Original Message -
> 
> From: "N4ZR"  
> To: "Martin Sole" , elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 4:54:37 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation 
> 
> Thanks, Martin - I take it all back - my radio drops the voltage down to 
> 11.0 volts at 100 watts key down. I'm really surprised, because I 
> figured that the breakers in the 4005i wouldn't have so much drop.I'll 
> have to figure out how best to siamese my power supply output so that it 
> goes both to the RigRunner and directly to the radio. That'll leave the 
> power supply's fusing as the only protection for the radio, but I guess 
> that's OK. 
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR 
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
> at , now 
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
> For spots, please use your favorite 
> "retail" DX cluster. 
> 
>> On 4/25/2020 12:24 PM, Martin Sole wrote: 
>> DISP and rotate vfo B for desired measurement option. 
>> 
>> Martin, HS0ZED 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 25/04/2020 23:19, N4ZR wrote: 
>>> That's right - my focus was (perhaps too narrowly) on the behavior of 
>>> the power supply under load, not on losses in the system. Now if 
>>> someone can just tell me how to read the voltage at the transceiver - 
>>> I know there's a menu setting somewhere but my radio is fairly early 
>>> and the manual doesn't say. 
>>> 
>>> 73, Pete N4ZR 
>>> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
>>> at , now 
>>> spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
>>> For spots, please use your favorite 
>>> "retail" DX cluster. 
>>> 
>>> On 4/25/2020 11:25 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: 
 I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in 
 voltage but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not 
 your voltmeter on the power supply that is the proper indicator. It 
 is the voltage on the input to the K3 that you should be noting. 
 It's available on the menu and displays in the VFO B area on the 
 screen. 
 
 Jack BMW Motorcycles 
 Chuck KE9UW 
 c-haw...@illinois.edu 
 
 Sent from my iPad 
 
> On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR  wrote: 
> 
> For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain 
> RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even 
> flicker when I go key-down at 100 watts. 
> 
> I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little 
> optimistic) might be to blame. My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts 
> key down. 
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR 
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
> at , now 
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
> For spots, please use your favorite 
> "retail" DX cluster. 
> 
>> On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote: 
>> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After 
>> seeing some 
>> discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string 
>> of 3 
>> power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around 
>> a 1 volt 
>> drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts 
>> keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig 
>> directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 
>> volts. That 
>> is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on 
>> with only 
>> a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole 
>> strip 
>> where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff. 
>> 
>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder 
>>>  wrote: 
>>> 
>>> Bob, 
>>> 
>>> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, 
>>> and/or 
>>> RigRunner equipment? 
>>> 
>>> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them? 
>>> 
>>> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right! 
>>> 
>>> 

Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[hawley, charles j jr]

I bought another one of those Samsung supplies just for the K3S.

Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
c-haw...@illinois.edu

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:55 AM, N4ZR  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Martin - I take it all back - my radio drops the voltage down to 
> 11.0 volts at 100 watts key down.  I'm really surprised, because I figured 
> that the breakers in the 4005i wouldn't have so much drop.I'll have to figure 
> out how best to siamese my power supply output so that it goes both to the 
> RigRunner and directly to the radio.  That'll leave the power supply's fusing 
> as the only protection for the radio, but I guess that's OK.
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at , now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
> 
>> On 4/25/2020 12:24 PM, Martin Sole wrote:
>> DISP and rotate vfo B for desired measurement option.
>> 
>> Martin, HS0ZED
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 25/04/2020 23:19, N4ZR wrote:
>>> That's right - my focus was (perhaps too narrowly) on the behavior of the 
>>> power supply under load, not on losses in the system.  Now if someone can 
>>> just tell me how to read the voltage at the transceiver - I know there's a 
>>> menu setting somewhere but my radio is fairly early and the manual doesn't 
>>> say.
>>> 
>>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
>>> at , now
>>> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
>>> For spots, please use your favorite
>>> "retail" DX cluster.
>>> 
>>> On 4/25/2020 11:25 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
 I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in 
 voltage but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not your 
 voltmeter on the power supply that is the proper indicator. It is the 
 voltage on the input to the K3 that you should be noting. It's available 
 on the menu and displays in the VFO B area on the screen.
 
 Jack BMW Motorcycles
 Chuck KE9UW
 c-haw...@illinois.edu
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
> On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR  wrote:
> 
> For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain 
> RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even flicker 
> when I go key-down at 100 watts.
> 
> I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little optimistic) 
> might be to blame.  My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts key down.
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at , now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
> 
>> On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing 
>> some
>> discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
>> power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 
>> volt
>> drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
>> keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
>> directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. 
>> That
>> is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with 
>> only
>> a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
>> where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.
>> 
>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob,
>>> 
>>> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
>>> RigRunner equipment?
>>> 
>>> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>>> 
>>> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>>> 
>>> Gunny, KE0PVQ
>>> 
>>> Sent from Mail for
>>> Windows 10
>>> 
>>> From: Gmail
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
>>> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX
>>> Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>>> 
>>> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is
>>> reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run 14.0 out of 
>>> supply.
>>> Ray
>>> W8LYJ
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX  
 wrote:
 
 As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE TRASH where
>>> it belongs.NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to 
>>> power a
>>> 100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
>>> terminals.   NO exceptions!
 73
 
 Bob, K4TAX
 
 
> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck 

Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Edward R Cole]

Just an observation regarding Don's comment:

Last week I decided to do my radio shack reorganization (complete 
relocation of things) and one result is the main 12v line from my 
station Astron 50M PS, which is welding wire (no.6 awg?), to my main 
distribution strip was shortened from about 16 to 6-feet.  Resulting 
with 110w output on 2m FM vs 90w previous (guessing due to better 
voltage and/or lower coax loss).


One of the reasons for rearranging the station was to shorten 
cabling.  E.g. I eliminated a 20-foot runs of LMR-600 from both my 6m 
1000w PA & 2m 1500w PA.  240vac line is about 12-foot longer to my 
50v PS for the amps.  I don't expect to see much voltage sag with a 
load of 12A.  I only saw 1-volt sag in the original location.


Many of my 12v equipment power lines will also be shortened.  win-win!

73, Ed - KL7UW
630m to 3cm

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 11:42:35 -0400
From: Don Wilhelm 
To: Ron Manfredi , elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Solder each power supply lead to a short length of #10 wire.  Insulate
the connection well.

73,
Don W3FPR


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Pete Lascell]

To bad the power supply doesn't have remote voltage sense to regulate at the 
far end of the 12 volt power cable.
Pete W4WWQ

- Original Message -
From: 
To: 
Sent: 4/25/2020 2:47:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation


Hi Pete, 


The K3 100 watt power amplifier includes a 25 amp circuit breaker 
on the rear panel of your radio. The rest of the K3 electronics is 
protected by an internal 5 amp self resetting fuse. 


There's absolutely no need for external fuses, except in a mobile installation 
where external fuses are required in both the positive and negative power 
leads to avoid a possibly disastrous automotive fire. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "N4ZR"  
To: "Martin Sole" , elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 4:54:37 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation 

Thanks, Martin - I take it all back - my radio drops the voltage down to 
11.0 volts at 100 watts key down. I'm really surprised, because I 
figured that the breakers in the 4005i wouldn't have so much drop.I'll 
have to figure out how best to siamese my power supply output so that it 
goes both to the RigRunner and directly to the radio. That'll leave the 
power supply's fusing as the only protection for the radio, but I guess 
that's OK. 

73, Pete N4ZR 
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
at , now 
spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster. 

On 4/25/2020 12:24 PM, Martin Sole wrote: 
> DISP and rotate vfo B for desired measurement option. 
> 
> Martin, HS0ZED 
> 
> 
> 
> On 25/04/2020 23:19, N4ZR wrote: 
>> That's right - my focus was (perhaps too narrowly) on the behavior of 
>> the power supply under load, not on losses in the system. Now if 
>> someone can just tell me how to read the voltage at the transceiver - 
>> I know there's a menu setting somewhere but my radio is fairly early 
>> and the manual doesn't say. 
>> 
>> 73, Pete N4ZR 
>> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
>> at , now 
>> spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
>> For spots, please use your favorite 
>> "retail" DX cluster. 
>> 
>> On 4/25/2020 11:25 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: 
>>> I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in 
>>> voltage but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not 
>>> your voltmeter on the power supply that is the proper indicator. It 
>>> is the voltage on the input to the K3 that you should be noting. 
>>> It's available on the menu and displays in the VFO B area on the 
>>> screen. 
>>> 
>>> Jack BMW Motorcycles 
>>> Chuck KE9UW 
>>> c-haw...@illinois.edu 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad 
>>> 
 On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR  wrote: 
 
 For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain 
 RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even 
 flicker when I go key-down at 100 watts. 
 
 I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little 
 optimistic) might be to blame. My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts 
 key down. 
 
 73, Pete N4ZR 
 Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
 at , now 
 spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
 For spots, please use your favorite 
 "retail" DX cluster. 
 
> On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote: 
> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After 
> seeing some 
> discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string 
> of 3 
> power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around 
> a 1 volt 
> drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts 
> keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig 
> directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 
> volts. That 
> is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on 
> with only 
> a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole 
> strip 
> where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff. 
> 
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder 
>>  wrote: 
>> 
>> Bob, 
>> 
>> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, 
>> and/or 
>> RigRunner equipment? 
>> 
>> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them? 
>> 
>> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right! 
>> 
>> Gunny, KE0PVQ 
>> 
>> Sent from Mail for 
>> Windows 10 
>> 
>> From: Gmail 
>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM 
>> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX 
>> Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW 

Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[donovanf]

Hi Pete, 


The K3 100 watt power amplifier includes a 25 amp circuit breaker 
on the rear panel of your radio. The rest of the K3 electronics is 
protected by an internal 5 amp self resetting fuse. 


There's absolutely no need for external fuses, except in a mobile installation 
where external fuses are required in both the positive and negative power 
leads to avoid a possibly disastrous automotive fire. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "N4ZR"  
To: "Martin Sole" , elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 4:54:37 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation 

Thanks, Martin - I take it all back - my radio drops the voltage down to 
11.0 volts at 100 watts key down. I'm really surprised, because I 
figured that the breakers in the 4005i wouldn't have so much drop.I'll 
have to figure out how best to siamese my power supply output so that it 
goes both to the RigRunner and directly to the radio. That'll leave the 
power supply's fusing as the only protection for the radio, but I guess 
that's OK. 

73, Pete N4ZR 
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
at , now 
spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster. 

On 4/25/2020 12:24 PM, Martin Sole wrote: 
> DISP and rotate vfo B for desired measurement option. 
> 
> Martin, HS0ZED 
> 
> 
> 
> On 25/04/2020 23:19, N4ZR wrote: 
>> That's right - my focus was (perhaps too narrowly) on the behavior of 
>> the power supply under load, not on losses in the system. Now if 
>> someone can just tell me how to read the voltage at the transceiver - 
>> I know there's a menu setting somewhere but my radio is fairly early 
>> and the manual doesn't say. 
>> 
>> 73, Pete N4ZR 
>> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
>> at , now 
>> spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
>> For spots, please use your favorite 
>> "retail" DX cluster. 
>> 
>> On 4/25/2020 11:25 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: 
>>> I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in 
>>> voltage but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not 
>>> your voltmeter on the power supply that is the proper indicator. It 
>>> is the voltage on the input to the K3 that you should be noting. 
>>> It's available on the menu and displays in the VFO B area on the 
>>> screen. 
>>> 
>>> Jack BMW Motorcycles 
>>> Chuck KE9UW 
>>> c-haw...@illinois.edu 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad 
>>> 
 On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR  wrote: 
 
 For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain 
 RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even 
 flicker when I go key-down at 100 watts. 
 
 I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little 
 optimistic) might be to blame. My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts 
 key down. 
 
 73, Pete N4ZR 
 Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
 at , now 
 spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
 For spots, please use your favorite 
 "retail" DX cluster. 
 
> On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote: 
> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After 
> seeing some 
> discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string 
> of 3 
> power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around 
> a 1 volt 
> drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts 
> keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig 
> directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 
> volts. That 
> is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on 
> with only 
> a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole 
> strip 
> where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff. 
> 
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder 
>>  wrote: 
>> 
>> Bob, 
>> 
>> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, 
>> and/or 
>> RigRunner equipment? 
>> 
>> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them? 
>> 
>> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right! 
>> 
>> Gunny, KE0PVQ 
>> 
>> Sent from Mail for 
>> Windows 10 
>> 
>> From: Gmail 
>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM 
>> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX 
>> Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation 
>> 
>> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if 
>> it is 
>> reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting. I run 14.0 out 
>> of supply. 
>> Ray 
>> W8LYJ 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad 
>> 
>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX 

Re: [Elecraft] Power supply V drop - was poor CW on K3S

[Augie "Gus" Hansen]

On 4/25/2020 12:19 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
... If this is a fixed installation and your power supply has some 
form of overcurrent protection [e.g. crowbar], there may be no need 
for any fuses in the power cable.


A crowbar circuit will short the output of the PS to prevent an 
over-voltage event from damaging the equipment being powered. A fuse or 
fast acting breaker is used to guard against over-current events.


Gus Hansen
KB0YH

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Re: [Elecraft] Power supply V drop - was poor CW on K3S

[Fred Jensen]

"glass fuses"?  You want to avoid the in-line cylindrical cartridge 
fuses, the holders almost always have too much resistance.  Blade-type 
automotive fuses are much better ... much more contact surface, much 
more contact pressure, and a wiping action as you insert the fuse.  A 
drop of DeOxit on the blades as you insert the fuse will also help.  If 
this is a fixed installation and your power supply has some form of 
overcurrent protection [e.g. crowbar], there may be no need for any 
fuses in the power cable.


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 4/25/2020 9:01 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:

Here's an update.

I replaced the power cable running from the powerstrip with a 3-foot length
with glass fuse holders in each leg.  I also adjusted the power supply to
14.50V at rest.  The K3S now shows 14.2V at rest.  At 100W TX the K3S shows
13.2V, so a 1 volt drop.  Way too much.

The power supply voltage measured at the terminals drops from 14.50 to
14.44 for full power TX.  This seems too much, I had read the drop should
be no more than 0.01V and this is 0.06V.

So, suspecting the in line fuse holders I made up another cable with dual
blade-fuse holders, which was worse.  TX voltage on the K3S display dropped
to 12.9V.

I'm suspecting my power supply is to blame - it's a TenTec 963, a
re-branded Astron SS-30.  Alternatively, I have another commercial power
cable with fuse holders I can cut down and try.

Many thanks for all the help both here on the reflector and the direct
emails from several fellows, and to Rich VE3KI for the on-air tests this
morning!

73 de Chuck, WS1L



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Re: [Elecraft] About my capacitor failure (etc.) issue:

[Christopher Hoover]

We're getting far off the topic of Elecraft radios ...
>
>
> Investigation showed that the steel chassis was not 100% flat and the
> contact surface of the rectifier was compromised.


Good lesson.  Contact resistances need to be accounted for in the thermal
model and analysis..   They are never zero like they are in the textbook.
 Nothing is ever flat (P-V).   TIMs (thermal interface material) can help
but need to go into the model.

73 de AI6KG





On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 8:52 PM Martin Sole  wrote:

> I can add perhaps another data point on the rectifier matter. Years back
> my employer, one of the largest ground to air radio manufacturers was
> having failures with their mainstay transmitter, a 50w carrier AM unit.
> It had a large toroidal  transformer and a packaged rectifier. The
> rectifier was bolted to the steel sub chassis and all was fine in
> regular intermittent service but  in ATIS service the transmitter runs
> essentially continuous, so about 160-180 PEP, and rectifiers were failing.
>
> Investigation showed that the steel chassis was not 100% flat and the
> contact surface of the rectifier was compromised. The fix was to insert
> a (really) flat aluminium bar under the rectifier and bolt that to the
> chassis. The bar did much of the heat sinking and had many more contact
> patches with the steel sub chassis. Even paint ridges can be a source of
> reduced contact leading to overheating of the rectifier package and
> those things really do need to shift some heat. A good way to think of
> it is like you would a PA transistor in a 100 watt amplifier, we
> appreciate how well they need to be bolted to a heat sink and your
> rectifier package wants very similar assessment.
>
> It's not so much the current that causes failure rather the heat is not
> being dissipated properly from the smaller package.
>
> Martin, HS0ZED
>
>
> On 25/04/2020 02:11, Ray Albers wrote:
> > This thread started as my description of the failure of my Astron RS-20A
> > power supply, caused by a bad electrolytic capacitor on the regulator
> > circuit board. Several hams posted advice that a 20Amp supply was really
> > too small for a K3/100, especially if running full power. This led me to
> > order an Astron RS-35 supply.
> >
> > Chris Hoover, AI6KG, posted the below advice, warning about possible
> under-
> > engineered rectifier diode arrangement in the RS-35A.
> >
> > Today the big brown truck delivered my RS-35M-AP  (the M and AP signify
> it
> > has meters and Anderson Power Poles on the front panel).  Chris
> speculated
> > that Astron may have made changes more recently. So the first thing I did
> > was to open the case to check out the rectifier arrangement.  Here's
> what I
> > found:
> >
> > My unit bears Serial Number 2019110051.  I am speculating that the
> leading
> > digits 2019 signifies 2019 manufacture.  Interestingly, the schematic
> that
> > shipped with the unit says Rev.1, April 2020.  The schematic shows two
> > bridge rectifiers, DB3501. Two diodes are used from each bridge, and sure
> > enough the diodes are paralleled.  The DB3501 is spec'd at 35A, so that
> > seems to be an improvement from the 25A diodes Chris mentioned.  That's
> > what's in the schematic. Inside the power supply, there are indeed  two
> > rectifier packages bolted to the floor, with heavy (maybe 14ga) solid
> wires
> > connecting terminals in parallel. I'm unable to confirm what the rating
> of
> > these diode packages is. They are not labeled DB3501. Instead, they say
> > "Astron 5001," and one of them also bears some Chinese characters. So
> > custom made for Astron?
> >
> > Well, I have ordered a 50Amp rated diode package, but  am undecided if I
> > will replace the diodes in the supply.  35 Amp rated diode bridges is an
> > upgrade from the 25 diode bridges that Chris mentioned finding. It does
> > puzzle me why, with 50A (and better) diodes being so cheap, would Astron
> do
> > it this way?  I can only think of two reasons:  1) We think having two
> > packages bolted to the case will make for better heat dissipation of the
> > total heat generated at max current and 2), the ever present, "because
> > we've always done it this way!"
> >
> > Finally, I'll mention that, like my old RS-20A, I found the negative
> > terminal bonded to the case. I consider this bad practice so I removed
> that
> > bond.
> >
> > 73 to all
> > Ray K2HYD
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 6:07 PM Christopher Hoover 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> You might want to replace the bridge rectifier in that new 35A power
> >> supply.
> >>
> >> Yep, right out of the box.
> >>
> >> At some point, Astron started shipping RS-35A's with a 25A bridge
> >> rectifier.   They paralleled two out of four of the 25A diodes twice
> over
> >> to make, supposedly, a pair of 50A diodes for center-tapped full-wave
> >> rectification.  That's not good engineering practice as the diodes in
> each
> >> pair will not share current equally because of differences in Vf and
> >> 

Re: [Elecraft] About my capacitor failure (etc.) issue:

[Christopher Hoover]

If they are paralleling two 35A diodes in the new builds, they may have
repeated the same mistake.

Does this give a 50% derating (a typical factor) for full load forward
current?

I dunno.  One can do the math [1] and figure it out.

A 50 A bridge (no need to parallel) is OK by design.  That's just a smidge
under 50% derating.

I used a 75A bridge, IIRC.

73 de AI6KG

[1]
https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00098381-current-sharing-in-parallel-diodes-stmicroelectronics.pdf

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:11 PM Ray Albers  wrote:

> This thread started as my description of the failure of my Astron RS-20A
> power supply, caused by a bad electrolytic capacitor on the regulator
> circuit board. Several hams posted advice that a 20Amp supply was really
> too small for a K3/100, especially if running full power. This led me to
> order an Astron RS-35 supply.
>
> Chris Hoover, AI6KG, posted the below advice, warning about possible
> under- engineered rectifier diode arrangement in the RS-35A.
>
> Today the big brown truck delivered my RS-35M-AP  (the M and AP signify it
> has meters and Anderson Power Poles on the front panel).  Chris speculated
> that Astron may have made changes more recently. So the first thing I did
> was to open the case to check out the rectifier arrangement.  Here's what I
> found:
>
> My unit bears Serial Number 2019110051.  I am speculating that the leading
> digits 2019 signifies 2019 manufacture.  Interestingly, the schematic that
> shipped with the unit says Rev.1, April 2020.  The schematic shows two
> bridge rectifiers, DB3501. Two diodes are used from each bridge, and sure
> enough the diodes are paralleled.  The DB3501 is spec'd at 35A, so that
> seems to be an improvement from the 25A diodes Chris mentioned.  That's
> what's in the schematic. Inside the power supply, there are indeed  two
> rectifier packages bolted to the floor, with heavy (maybe 14ga) solid wires
> connecting terminals in parallel. I'm unable to confirm what the rating of
> these diode packages is. They are not labeled DB3501. Instead, they say
> "Astron 5001," and one of them also bears some Chinese characters. So
> custom made for Astron?
>
> Well, I have ordered a 50Amp rated diode package, but  am undecided if I
> will replace the diodes in the supply.  35 Amp rated diode bridges is an
> upgrade from the 25 diode bridges that Chris mentioned finding. It does
> puzzle me why, with 50A (and better) diodes being so cheap, would Astron do
> it this way?  I can only think of two reasons:  1) We think having two
> packages bolted to the case will make for better heat dissipation of the
> total heat generated at max current and 2), the ever present, "because
> we've always done it this way!"
>
> Finally, I'll mention that, like my old RS-20A, I found the negative
> terminal bonded to the case. I consider this bad practice so I removed that
> bond.
>
> 73 to all
> Ray K2HYD
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 6:07 PM Christopher Hoover 
> wrote:
>
>> You might want to replace the bridge rectifier in that new 35A power
>> supply.
>>
>> Yep, right out of the box.
>>
>> At some point, Astron started shipping RS-35A's with a 25A bridge
>> rectifier.   They paralleled two out of four of the 25A diodes twice over
>> to make, supposedly, a pair of 50A diodes for center-tapped full-wave
>> rectification.  That's not good engineering practice as the diodes in each
>> pair will not share current equally because of differences in Vf and
>> tempco. Once one blow, the other will blow shortly after.
>>
>> After I fixed my own RS-35A with this problem, I've helped several other
>> hams fix this same problem in theirs.  Not a random sample, as this is just
>> folks on my local machine and in local clubs.
>>
>> You can get a 50A bridge in the same package for under $3.
>>
>> Perhaps Astron has fixed the problem since 
>>
>> 73 de AI6KG  -ch
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 10:28 AM Ray Albers  wrote:
>>
>>> Many to all who posted/responded to my recent post about an electrolytic
>>> capacitor failure in my power supply.  Lots of very interesting reading
>>> about peoples' industry experiences - thank you!
>>>
>>> Several have pointed out that using a 20A supply with my K3/100 is
>>> pushing
>>> close to (or over!) the limit.  Even though I am measuring just 16A at
>>> the
>>> power level I'm running (and not running anything but the K3 on this
>>> supply) I agree that I'm skirting the edges. So even though I've been
>>> getting away with it for a long time, this morning I ordered a 35A
>>> supply.
>>> I'll probably sleep better.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Ray K2HYD
>>>
>>> <
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon
>>> >
>>> Virus-free.
>>> www.avast.com
>>> <
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=link
>>> >
>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>> 

[Elecraft] Power supply update

[Chuck Chandler]

I'm trying to keep the subject line updated...

I'm now powering the K3S with just under 3 feet of #10, direct from the
power supply to the rig, nothing else in the line.  The K3S reads 14.2V at
rest, 13.6V at full power out.

The power supply at the terminals, using my DVM, reads 14.50 at rest, 14.44
full power out.

The keying waveform looks better.  I'll round up a local or two for some
on-air tests later.

Many thanks for the help!

73 de Chuck, WS1L

-- 


===
Chuck Chandler
chandler...@gmail.com
===
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[N4ZR]

Thanks, Martin - I take it all back - my radio drops the voltage down to 
11.0 volts at 100 watts key down.  I'm really surprised, because I 
figured that the breakers in the 4005i wouldn't have so much drop.I'll 
have to figure out how best to siamese my power supply output so that it 
goes both to the RigRunner and directly to the radio.  That'll leave the 
power supply's fusing as the only protection for the radio, but I guess 
that's OK.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/25/2020 12:24 PM, Martin Sole wrote:

DISP and rotate vfo B for desired measurement option.

Martin, HS0ZED



On 25/04/2020 23:19, N4ZR wrote:
That's right - my focus was (perhaps too narrowly) on the behavior of 
the power supply under load, not on losses in the system.  Now if 
someone can just tell me how to read the voltage at the transceiver - 
I know there's a menu setting somewhere but my radio is fairly early 
and the manual doesn't say.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/25/2020 11:25 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in 
voltage but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not 
your voltmeter on the power supply that is the proper indicator. It 
is the voltage on the input to the K3 that you should be noting. 
It's available on the menu and displays in the VFO B area on the 
screen.


Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
c-haw...@illinois.edu

Sent from my iPad


On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR  wrote:

For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain 
RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even 
flicker when I go key-down at 100 watts.


I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little 
optimistic) might be to blame.  My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts 
key down.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.


On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After 
seeing some
discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string 
of 3
power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around 
a 1 volt

drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 
volts. That
is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on 
with only
a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole 
strip

where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder 
 wrote:


Bob,

Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, 
and/or

RigRunner equipment?

For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?

I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!

Gunny, KE0PVQ

Sent from Mail for
Windows 10

From: Gmail
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
To: Bob McGraw K4TAX
Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if 
it is
reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run 14.0 out 
of supply.

Ray
W8LYJ

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX 
 wrote:


As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE 
TRASH where
it belongs.    NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip 
to power a
100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power 
supply

terminals.   NO exceptions!

73

Bob, K4TAX



On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common

factor
in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about 
from my
rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's 
job.


I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A 
continuous.  At

rest
the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it 
dips to

11.5

or so.  This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable thru a
RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power 
supply from

the

packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.

Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being 
reported?


73 de Chuck, WS1L


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Home:

Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Jim Brown]

On 4/25/2020 5:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:

  At rest
the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to 11.5
or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable thru a
RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power supply from the
packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.


The power strip and the cable length combine to cause the high drop. The 
rig should always be powered directly from the power supply, and with 
the shortest practical cable. There are several vendors who sell 
PowerPole connector parts. All that's needed to install them are a 
soldering iron, diagonal cutters, and decent needlenose pliers. It's not 
too difficult to make a Y-cable so that you can feed a single PSU to 
both the radio and the power strip.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Frank Krozel]

I agree with Bob, TAX.
if it doesn't have the connectors you need, then don't buy it.

The message is pretty clear if one has the needed connectors for that power 
level and the other doesn’t.

One sits on the shelf of the vendor, the other one flys off the shelf.

-73-  FrankKG9H
kg9hfr...@gmail.com




> On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:24 AM, Martin Sole  wrote:
> 
> DISP and rotate vfo B for desired measurement option.
> 
> Martin, HS0ZED
> 
> 
> 
> On 25/04/2020 23:19, N4ZR wrote:
>> That's right - my focus was (perhaps too narrowly) on the behavior of the 
>> power supply under load, not on losses in the system.  Now if someone can 
>> just tell me how to read the voltage at the transceiver - I know there's a 
>> menu setting somewhere but my radio is fairly early and the manual doesn't 
>> say.
>> 
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
>> at , now
>> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
>> For spots, please use your favorite
>> "retail" DX cluster.
>> 
>> On 4/25/2020 11:25 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>>> I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in 
>>> voltage but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not your 
>>> voltmeter on the power supply that is the proper indicator. It is the 
>>> voltage on the input to the K3 that you should be noting. It's available on 
>>> the menu and displays in the VFO B area on the screen.
>>> 
>>> Jack BMW Motorcycles
>>> Chuck KE9UW
>>> c-haw...@illinois.edu
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR  wrote:
 
 For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain 
 RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even flicker 
 when I go key-down at 100 watts.
 
 I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little optimistic) might 
 be to blame.  My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts key down.
 
 73, Pete N4ZR
 Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
 at , now
 spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
 For spots, please use your favorite
 "retail" DX cluster.
 
> On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing some
> discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
> power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 
> volt
> drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
> keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
> directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That
> is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with 
> only
> a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
> where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.
> 
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder  wrote:
>> 
>> Bob,
>> 
>> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
>> RigRunner equipment?
>> 
>> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>> 
>> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>> 
>> Gunny, KE0PVQ
>> 
>> Sent from Mail for
>> Windows 10
>> 
>> From: Gmail
>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
>> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX
>> Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>> 
>> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is
>> reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run 14.0 out of 
>> supply.
>> Ray
>> W8LYJ
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
>>> 
>>> As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE TRASH where
>> it belongs.NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power 
>> a
>> 100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
>> terminals.   NO exceptions!
>>> 73
>>> 
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>> 
>>> 
 On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
 After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common
>> factor
 in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
 rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.
 
 I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous.  At
>> rest
 the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to
>> 11.5
 or so.  This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable thru a
 RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power supply from
>> the
 packed boxes I can wire the K3S 

Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[hawley, charles j jr]

Tap DISC and rotate the B knob for various including voltage readout

Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
c-haw...@illinois.edu

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:19 AM, N4ZR  wrote:
> 
> That's right - my focus was (perhaps too narrowly) on the behavior of the 
> power supply under load, not on losses in the system.  Now if someone can 
> just tell me how to read the voltage at the transceiver - I know there's a 
> menu setting somewhere but my radio is fairly early and the manual doesn't 
> say.
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at , now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
> 
>> On 4/25/2020 11:25 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>> I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in voltage 
>> but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not your voltmeter on 
>> the power supply that is the proper indicator. It is the voltage on the 
>> input to the K3 that you should be noting. It's available on the menu and 
>> displays in the VFO B area on the screen.
>> 
>> Jack BMW Motorcycles
>> Chuck KE9UW
>> c-haw...@illinois.edu
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
 On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR  wrote:
>>> 
>>> For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain 
>>> RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even flicker 
>>> when I go key-down at 100 watts.
>>> 
>>> I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little optimistic) might 
>>> be to blame.  My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts key down.
>>> 
>>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
>>> at , now
>>> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
>>> For spots, please use your favorite
>>> "retail" DX cluster.
>>> 
 On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
 I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing some
 discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
 power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 volt
 drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
 keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
 directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That
 is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only
 a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
 where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.
 
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder  wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> 
> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
> RigRunner equipment?
> 
> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
> 
> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
> 
> Gunny, KE0PVQ
> 
> Sent from Mail for
> Windows 10
> 
> From: Gmail
> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX
> Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
> 
> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is
> reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run 14.0 out of 
> supply.
> Ray
> W8LYJ
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
>> 
>> As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE TRASH where
> it belongs.NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a
> 100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
> terminals.   NO exceptions!
>> 73
>> 
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> 
>>> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>>> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common
> factor
>>> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
>>> rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.
>>> 
>>> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous.  At
> rest
>>> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to
> 11.5
>>> or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable thru a
>>> RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power supply from
> the
>>> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>>> 
>>> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?
>>> 
>>> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>>> 
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home:
> 

Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Change the connectors on the power supply to accommodate several ring 
type connectors.   Use 1" long   #10 bolts, nuts, flat washers and 
insulating washers which are easy to find at your local hardware store 
and are very easy to use and replace.  Then you can connect 8 to 10 
pieces of equipment to one power supply.


Remember, we are ham radio operators and that is what we've always 
done.   But as I have done, with two stations, I have two power supplies.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 4/25/2020 10:42 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
Solder each power supply lead to a short length of #10 wire.  Insulate 
the connection well.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/25/2020 11:12 AM, Ron Manfredi wrote:
Fewer power supplies (meaning the switching type) have actual 
terminal bolts to use with ring connectors.  If the supply doesn't 
have that type of connector, then what alternatives are there to 
being able to use one supply in a station that has more than one high 
current rig,  (even if they are not used at the same time) since the 
connectors on most of these supplies will take at most only one 10-12 
gauge cable?


Ron   WA2EIO

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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Martin Sole]

DISP and rotate vfo B for desired measurement option.

Martin, HS0ZED



On 25/04/2020 23:19, N4ZR wrote:
That's right - my focus was (perhaps too narrowly) on the behavior of 
the power supply under load, not on losses in the system.  Now if 
someone can just tell me how to read the voltage at the transceiver - 
I know there's a menu setting somewhere but my radio is fairly early 
and the manual doesn't say.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/25/2020 11:25 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in 
voltage but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not 
your voltmeter on the power supply that is the proper indicator. It 
is the voltage on the input to the K3 that you should be noting. It's 
available on the menu and displays in the VFO B area on the screen.


Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
c-haw...@illinois.edu

Sent from my iPad


On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR  wrote:

For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain 
RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even 
flicker when I go key-down at 100 watts.


I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little optimistic) 
might be to blame.  My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts key down.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.


On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After 
seeing some

discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around 
a 1 volt

drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 
volts. That
is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on 
with only

a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder  
wrote:


Bob,

Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
RigRunner equipment?

For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?

I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!

Gunny, KE0PVQ

Sent from Mail for
Windows 10

From: Gmail
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
To: Bob McGraw K4TAX
Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if 
it is
reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run 14.0 out 
of supply.

Ray
W8LYJ

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX  
wrote:


As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE TRASH 
where
it belongs.    NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to 
power a

100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
terminals.   NO exceptions!

73

Bob, K4TAX



On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common

factor
in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about 
from my
rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's 
job.


I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A 
continuous.  At

rest
the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it 
dips to

11.5

or so.  This seems like a lot. I'm running the power cable thru a
RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power 
supply from

the

packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.

Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being 
reported?


73 de Chuck, WS1L


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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[N4ZR]

That's right - my focus was (perhaps too narrowly) on the behavior of 
the power supply under load, not on losses in the system.  Now if 
someone can just tell me how to read the voltage at the transceiver - I 
know there's a menu setting somewhere but my radio is fairly early and 
the manual doesn't say.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/25/2020 11:25 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:

I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in voltage 
but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not your voltmeter on the 
power supply that is the proper indicator. It is the voltage on the input to 
the K3 that you should be noting. It's available on the menu and displays in 
the VFO B area on the screen.

Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
c-haw...@illinois.edu

Sent from my iPad


On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR  wrote:

For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain RigRunner 
4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even flicker when I go 
key-down at 100 watts.

I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little optimistic) might be 
to blame.  My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts key down.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.


On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing some
discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 volt
drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That
is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only
a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.


On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder  wrote:

Bob,

Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
RigRunner equipment?

For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?

I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!

Gunny, KE0PVQ

Sent from Mail for
Windows 10

From: Gmail
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
To: Bob McGraw K4TAX
Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is
reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run 14.0 out of supply.
Ray
W8LYJ

Sent from my iPad


On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:

As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE TRASH where

it belongs.NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a
100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
terminals.   NO exceptions!

73

Bob, K4TAX



On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common

factor

in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.

I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous.  At

rest

the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to

11.5

or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable thru a
RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power supply from

the

packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.

Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?

73 de Chuck, WS1L


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Re: [Elecraft] Power supply V drop - was poor CW on K3S

[Raymond]

If it’s a regulated power supply with crowbar And the radio has a fuse why are 
you using inline fuses?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:04, Chuck Chandler  wrote:
> 
> Here's an update.
> 
> I replaced the power cable running from the powerstrip with a 3-foot length
> with glass fuse holders in each leg.  I also adjusted the power supply to
> 14.50V at rest.  The K3S now shows 14.2V at rest.  At 100W TX the K3S shows
> 13.2V, so a 1 volt drop.  Way too much.
> 
> The power supply voltage measured at the terminals drops from 14.50 to
> 14.44 for full power TX.  This seems too much, I had read the drop should
> be no more than 0.01V and this is 0.06V.
> 
> So, suspecting the in line fuse holders I made up another cable with dual
> blade-fuse holders, which was worse.  TX voltage on the K3S display dropped
> to 12.9V.
> 
> I'm suspecting my power supply is to blame - it's a TenTec 963, a
> re-branded Astron SS-30.  Alternatively, I have another commercial power
> cable with fuse holders I can cut down and try.
> 
> Many thanks for all the help both here on the reflector and the direct
> emails from several fellows, and to Rich VE3KI for the on-air tests this
> morning!
> 
> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> ===
> Chuck Chandler
> chandler...@gmail.com
> ===
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[Elecraft] Power supply V drop - was poor CW on K3S

[Chuck Chandler]

Here's an update.

I replaced the power cable running from the powerstrip with a 3-foot length
with glass fuse holders in each leg.  I also adjusted the power supply to
14.50V at rest.  The K3S now shows 14.2V at rest.  At 100W TX the K3S shows
13.2V, so a 1 volt drop.  Way too much.

The power supply voltage measured at the terminals drops from 14.50 to
14.44 for full power TX.  This seems too much, I had read the drop should
be no more than 0.01V and this is 0.06V.

So, suspecting the in line fuse holders I made up another cable with dual
blade-fuse holders, which was worse.  TX voltage on the K3S display dropped
to 12.9V.

I'm suspecting my power supply is to blame - it's a TenTec 963, a
re-branded Astron SS-30.  Alternatively, I have another commercial power
cable with fuse holders I can cut down and try.

Many thanks for all the help both here on the reflector and the direct
emails from several fellows, and to Rich VE3KI for the on-air tests this
morning!

73 de Chuck, WS1L

-- 


===
Chuck Chandler
chandler...@gmail.com
===
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I took off the original connectors and replaced them with suitable #10 
bolts, nuts, insulating washers and flat washers. The point, if the 
supply doesn't have the connectors you need, then don't buy it!     We 
are hams and hams have always made things work they way needed and as 
they should for the purpose.


73

Bob, K4TAX.

On 4/25/2020 10:12 AM, Ron Manfredi wrote:
Fewer power supplies (meaning the switching type) have actual terminal 
bolts to use with ring connectors.  If the supply doesn't have that 
type of connector, then what alternatives are there to being able to 
use one supply in a station that has more than one high current rig,  
(even if they are not used at the same time) since the connectors on 
most of these supplies will take at most only one 10-12 gauge cable?


Ron   WA2EIO


On 4/25/2020 10:56 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

Jim et al:

Thank you for confirming  exactly what I've written and suggested.

TO ALLPLEASE do not use power strips to supply DC to your 
radio from your power supply.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to 
the power supply terminals.    The power pole and DC distributions 
strips are ok for LED lightning and such but NEVER for anything 
drawing over about 2 amps.   I don't care what the manufacturer says 
they are "rated" for.    E = I x R.    Every connections adds 
resistance.    Do the math.


73

Bob, K4TAX

On 4/25/2020 9:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After 
seeing some discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in 
the string of 3 power pole connections in my setup at the time I was 
seeing around a 1 volt drop in the voltage on the K3 metering 
between receive and 100 watts keydown. That voltage drop was 
confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig directly to the supply and 
the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That is the way my rigs 
and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only a fuse 
inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip 
where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.


On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder > wrote:


    Bob,

    Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections,
    and/or RigRunner equipment?

    For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?

    I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!

    Gunny, KE0PVQ

    Sent from Mail for
    Windows 10

    From: Gmail>

    Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
    To: Bob McGraw K4TAX>
    Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
    Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

    Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if
    it is reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run
    14.0 out of supply.
    Ray
    W8LYJ

    Sent from my iPad

    > On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX mailto:rmcg...@blomand.net>> wrote:
    >
    > As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE
    TRASH where it belongs.    NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power
    distribution strip to power a 100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the
    radio direct to the power supply terminals.   NO exceptions!
    >
    > 73
    >
    > Bob, K4TAX
    >
    >
    >> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
    >> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the
    common factor
    >> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about
    from my
    >> rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's
    job.
    >>
    >> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A
    continuous.  At rest
    >> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it
    dips to 11.5
    >> or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable 
thru a

    >> RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power
    supply from the
    >> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
    >>
    >> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being
    reported?
    >>
    >> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
    >>
    >
    > __
    > Elecraft mailing list
    > Home:
https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraftdata=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357sdata=ungsv%2Fp%2BttMdFv1pen3cIlx6vdo6lgKCjXn4vvBnIgI%3Dreserved=0 


    > Help:

Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Don Wilhelm]

Solder each power supply lead to a short length of #10 wire.  Insulate 
the connection well.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/25/2020 11:12 AM, Ron Manfredi wrote:
Fewer power supplies (meaning the switching type) have actual terminal 
bolts to use with ring connectors.  If the supply doesn't have that type 
of connector, then what alternatives are there to being able to use one 
supply in a station that has more than one high current rig,  (even if 
they are not used at the same time) since the connectors on most of 
these supplies will take at most only one 10-12 gauge cable?


Ron   WA2EIO

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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Barry Baines via Elecraft]

Ron:

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Ron Manfredi  wrote:
> 
> Fewer power supplies (meaning the switching type) have actual terminal bolts 
> to use with ring connectors.  If the supply doesn't have that type of 
> connector, then what alternatives are there to being able to use one supply 
> in a station that has more than one high current rig,  (even if they are not 
> used at the same time) since the connectors on most of these supplies will 
> take at most only one 10-12 gauge cable?

A number of power supplies now feature Anderson Power Poles. Is that the 
connector you’re referring?

Of course, Elecraft transceivers also use the Anderson Power Pole connectors as 
does Flex Radio System transceivers.  West Mountain Radio offers the “Rig 
Runner” series of DC Power Splitters using Anderson Power Poles that feature 
varying number of connections as well as individual fused ports (they use 
Automobile fuses) where if the fuse blows the port lights up,  with the device 
rated for 40A.  I just saw an advertisement for a new product (4006U) that also 
includes two UBS power ports as well.  See: 
http://www.westmountainradio.com/rigrunner.php

There are also other manufacturers/distributors of DC Power Splitters, such as 
Powerwerx, and MFJ that offer their own variations of Anderson Power Pole DC 
Power Splitters.   Installing  Anderson Power poles is relatively easy if you 
use the proper crimper.  All of my DC power cables use Anderson Power Poles 
because the DC Power Splitters make it easy to wire the station, it is easy to 
add/remove power connections, and provide a standard fitting that makes it easy 
to relocate equipment to another part of the station or somewhere else (e.g. I 
use them in my Volvo XC70 as all of my ham gear works off DC Power Splitters).  
Each connection can also be locked in place in the power splitter with an 
insert that comes with the power splitter (they’re provided with the WMR 
products;  otherwise, you can buy them separately).  

FWIW,

Barry Baines, WD4ASW
Keller, TX



> 
> Ron   WA2EIO
> 
> 
> On 4/25/2020 10:56 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> Jim et al:
>> 
>> Thank you for confirming  exactly what I've written and suggested.
>> 
>> TO ALLPLEASE do not use power strips to supply DC to your radio from 
>> your power supply.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply 
>> terminals.The power pole and DC distributions strips are ok for LED 
>> lightning and such but NEVER for anything drawing over about 2 amps.   I 
>> don't care what the manufacturer says they are "rated" for.E = I x R.
>> Every connections adds resistance.Do the math.
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> On 4/25/2020 9:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>>> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing some 
>>> discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3 
>>> power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 volt 
>>> drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts 
>>> keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig 
>>> directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That 
>>> is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only 
>>> a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip 
>>> where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob,
>>> 
>>> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections,
>>> and/or RigRunner equipment?
>>> 
>>> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>>> 
>>> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>>> 
>>> Gunny, KE0PVQ
>>> 
>>> Sent from Mail for
>>> Windows 10
>>> 
>>> From: Gmail>
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
>>> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX>> >
>>> Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> >> >
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>>> 
>>> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if
>>> it is reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run
>>> 14.0 out of supply.
>>> Ray
>>> W8LYJ
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> > On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX >> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE
>>> TRASH where it belongs.NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power
>>> distribution strip to power a 100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the
>>> radio direct to the power supply terminals.   NO exceptions!
>>> >
>>> > 73
>>> >
>>> > 

Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[hawley, charles j jr]

I did notice that the post mentioned that his power supply dipped in voltage 
but as for preventing issues due to low voltage, it's not your voltmeter on the 
power supply that is the proper indicator. It is the voltage on the input to 
the K3 that you should be noting. It's available on the menu and displays in 
the VFO B area on the screen.

Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
c-haw...@illinois.edu

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 9:51 AM, N4ZR  wrote:
> 
> For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain RigRunner 
> 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even flicker when I go 
> key-down at 100 watts.
> 
> I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little optimistic) might be 
> to blame.  My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts key down.
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at , now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
> 
>> On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>> I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing some
>> discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
>> power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 volt
>> drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
>> keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
>> directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That
>> is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only
>> a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
>> where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.
>> 
>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob,
>>> 
>>> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
>>> RigRunner equipment?
>>> 
>>> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>>> 
>>> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>>> 
>>> Gunny, KE0PVQ
>>> 
>>> Sent from Mail for
>>> Windows 10
>>> 
>>> From: Gmail
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
>>> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX
>>> Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>>> 
>>> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is
>>> reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run 14.0 out of supply.
>>> Ray
>>> W8LYJ
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
 
 As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE TRASH where
>>> it belongs.NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a
>>> 100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
>>> terminals.   NO exceptions!
 73
 
 Bob, K4TAX
 
 
> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common
>>> factor
> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
> rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.
> 
> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous.  At
>>> rest
> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to
>>> 11.5
> or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable thru a
> RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power supply from
>>> the
> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
> 
> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?
> 
> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
> 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home:
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 Help:
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 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
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Re: [Elecraft] For Sale: Elecraft W-2 Wattmeter/SWR Bridge

[Michael Walker]

Do you have a price?

Which Sensors to you have?

Mike va3mw

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 11:21 AM Charles Tropp 
wrote:

>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to va...@portcredit.net
>
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[Elecraft] For Sale: Elecraft W-2 Wattmeter/SWR Bridge

[Charles Tropp]

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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Ron Manfredi]

Fewer power supplies (meaning the switching type) have actual terminal 
bolts to use with ring connectors.  If the supply doesn't have that type 
of connector, then what alternatives are there to being able to use one 
supply in a station that has more than one high current rig,  (even if 
they are not used at the same time) since the connectors on most of 
these supplies will take at most only one 10-12 gauge cable?


Ron   WA2EIO


On 4/25/2020 10:56 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

Jim et al:

Thank you for confirming  exactly what I've written and suggested.

TO ALLPLEASE do not use power strips to supply DC to your 
radio from your power supply.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the 
power supply terminals.    The power pole and DC distributions strips 
are ok for LED lightning and such but NEVER for anything drawing over 
about 2 amps.   I don't care what the manufacturer says they are 
"rated" for.    E = I x R.    Every connections adds resistance.    Do 
the math.


73

Bob, K4TAX

On 4/25/2020 9:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing 
some discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the 
string of 3 power pole connections in my setup at the time I was 
seeing around a 1 volt drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between 
receive and 100 watts keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my 
VOM so I wired the rig directly to the supply and the voltage drop 
was less than 0.25 volts. That is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps 
will be connected from now on with only a fuse inline. The low 
current stuff will stay on the power pole strip where they do just 
fine lighting up lights and stuff.


On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder > wrote:


    Bob,

    Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections,
    and/or RigRunner equipment?

    For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?

    I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!

    Gunny, KE0PVQ

    Sent from Mail for
    Windows 10

    From: Gmail>

    Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
    To: Bob McGraw K4TAX>
    Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
    Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

    Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if
    it is reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run
    14.0 out of supply.
    Ray
    W8LYJ

    Sent from my iPad

    > On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX mailto:rmcg...@blomand.net>> wrote:
    >
    > As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE
    TRASH where it belongs.    NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power
    distribution strip to power a 100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the
    radio direct to the power supply terminals.   NO exceptions!
    >
    > 73
    >
    > Bob, K4TAX
    >
    >
    >> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
    >> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the
    common factor
    >> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about
    from my
    >> rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's
    job.
    >>
    >> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A
    continuous.  At rest
    >> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it
    dips to 11.5
    >> or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable 
thru a

    >> RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power
    supply from the
    >> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
    >>
    >> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being
    reported?
    >>
    >> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
    >>
    >
    > __
    > Elecraft mailing list
    > Home:
https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Felecraftdata=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357sdata=ungsv%2Fp%2BttMdFv1pen3cIlx6vdo6lgKCjXn4vvBnIgI%3Dreserved=0
    > Help:
https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmmfaq.htmdata=02%7C01%7C%7C851d0737e47443117ae408d7e9216b51%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637234202046704357sdata=FSSRNX8wMACqNS%2BQ1XwUQPLzjJH3fCS8HnUiSFvElgk%3Dreserved=0
    > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
    
    >
    > This list hosted by:

Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Jim et al:

Thank you for confirming  exactly what I've written and suggested.

TO ALLPLEASE do not use power strips to supply DC to your radio 
from your power supply.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power 
supply terminals.    The power pole and DC distributions strips are ok 
for LED lightning and such but NEVER for anything drawing over about 2 
amps.   I don't care what the manufacturer says they are "rated" for.    
E = I x R.    Every connections adds resistance.    Do the math.


73

Bob, K4TAX

On 4/25/2020 9:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing 
some discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string 
of 3 power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing 
around a 1 volt drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive 
and 100 watts keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I 
wired the rig directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less 
than 0.25 volts. That is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be 
connected from now on with only a fuse inline. The low current stuff 
will stay on the power pole strip where they do just fine lighting up 
lights and stuff.


On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder > wrote:


Bob,

Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections,
and/or RigRunner equipment?

For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?

I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!

Gunny, KE0PVQ

Sent from Mail for
Windows 10

From: Gmail>
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
To: Bob McGraw K4TAX>
Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if
it is reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run
14.0 out of supply.
Ray
W8LYJ

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX mailto:rmcg...@blomand.net>> wrote:
>
> As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE
TRASH where it belongs.    NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power
distribution strip to power a 100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the
radio direct to the power supply terminals.   NO exceptions!
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the
common factor
>> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about
from my
>> rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's
job.
>>
>> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A
continuous.  At rest
>> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it
dips to 11.5
>> or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable thru a
>> RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power
supply from the
>> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>>
>> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being
reported?
>>
>> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>>
>
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[N4ZR]

For whatever it may be worth, my K3 is run through a West Mountain 
RigRunner 4005i, and the voltmeter on my SEC 1235M doesn't even flicker 
when I go key-down at 100 watts.


I'm wondering if a 25-amp-rated supply (perhaps a little optimistic) 
might be to blame.  My K3 draws 20.2 amps at 100 watts key down.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/25/2020 10:32 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:

I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing some
discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 volt
drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That
is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only
a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder  wrote:


Bob,

Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
RigRunner equipment?

For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?

I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!

Gunny, KE0PVQ

Sent from Mail for
Windows 10

From: Gmail
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
To: Bob McGraw K4TAX
Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is
reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run 14.0 out of supply.
Ray
W8LYJ

Sent from my iPad


On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:

As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE TRASH where

it belongs.NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a
100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
terminals.   NO exceptions!

73

Bob, K4TAX



On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common

factor

in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.

I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous.  At

rest

the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to

11.5

or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable thru a
RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power supply from

the

packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.

Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?

73 de Chuck, WS1L


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Post: 

[Elecraft] K4 S-Meter Characteristics

[Dauer, Edward]

Who uses S-values anyway?  Maybe for serious propagation measurements,  but I 
haven't heard anything but "5NN" or "59" in a contest as far back as I can 
remember, and likewise in CW DX work.  It's programmed into the logging 
software and probably impossible to dislodge.  I was recently in a DX pileup 
and decided to send a real report, 459, so the DX knew how he was actually 
doing in my part of the world.  I could almost feel the annoyance coming back 
at me through the ether from both the fox and the other hounds.  On CW and SSB 
rag chews I have heard real reports being exchanged, about both the signal and 
-- more commonly on SSB -- in complaints about the noise.  But even there what 
matters is readability above the noise, not the microvolts themselves.  IMHO, 
it's interesting to have S numbers on the scale of my P3, but if they 
disappeared from the K3 display it would be a long time before I noticed their 
absence.

"59 Good Buddy" (whatever that means),

Ted, KN1CBR


--

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 19:43:35 -0400
From: Brian Denley 
To: Charlie T 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 S-meter characteristics
Message-ID: <29e31aa6-423d-497c-ab4f-b5e675a25...@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8

The International Amateur Radio Union (IARU) Region 1 agreed on a technical 
recommendation for S Meter calibration for HF and VHF/UHF transceivers in 1981.

Why go back to 1947?

Brian Denley
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 24, 2020, at 6:30 PM, Charlie T  wrote:
> 
> ?S-meters should be calibrated with 9 signal levels:   
> 
> *Faint - Signal barely perceptible
> *Very weak signals
> *Weak signals
> *Fair signals
> *Fairly good signals
> *Good signals
> *Moderately strong signals
> *Strong signals
> *Extremely strong signals
> 
> (Reprinted from the 1947 ARRL Handbook, page 466 "RST System of Signal 
> Reports")
> 
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
> Behalf Of John Stengrevics
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 7:49 AM
> To: Morgan Bailey 
> Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 S-meter characteristics
> 
> Agree completely.  I find all S meters to be totally inaccurate and next to 
> useless, including my K3S?.  
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Gunny et al:

The issue with power distribution strips for DC is resistance. Every 
contact or connection in the path adds some value of resistance.  Using 
Ohms law, where E = IR, we see that more resistance = more voltage 
drop.  This includes the resistance of the DC power cable and any 
contact arrangements in the path. Ideally, there should be no voltage 
change at the radio between receive and transmit.


I have found these power strips may be "rated" for 20 amps, but they 
will always add some value of resistance at every contact point.  I do 
not recommend using any  model, brand or make DC power strip to supply 
DC to a radio.  Thus I always connect the radio direct to the power 
supply terminals.    I always suggest using proper size ring terminals, 
or PowerPole connectors which are properly crimped using a correct 
crimping tool.   A crimping tool is not pliers or the like, which if 
used, I refer to "mash on" connections.   I also sweat solder mine after 
crimping as well.   The crimp plus solder method is not recommended by 
the airline industry or NASA.  I doubt if my radios will be "flying off 
of the desk" or being launched into space any time in my lifetime.  HI  HI


On DC Cables.   Usually #12 AWG wire and a length of 3 ft or less is 
suitable for 100 watt radios.   If it is necessary to have longer DC 
power cables, then I suggest using #10 AWG for lengths of over 3 ft but 
less than 10 ft.   If you need power cables over 10 ft, I'd consider 
changing my installation.   The reason is that larger cables are 
difficult to use, move, and attach connectors reliably behind a radio.


So to answer you question "is it safe" yes, but there are better 
ways to handle DC power distribution.


Clean and stable DC at the radio is the objective.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 4/25/2020 9:15 AM, Don Schroder wrote:


Bob,

Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or 
RigRunner equipment?


For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?

I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!

Gunny, KE0PVQ

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows 10




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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Don Wilhelm]

Don,

Yes, Anderson Powerpoles are fine connectors.  Just don't use too many 
of then when powering a 100 watt rig.


IMHO, Rigrunners are handy things, but running a 100 watt transceiver 
from them is cause for significant voltage drops.  Each contact point 
will have some resistance.  A fused Rigrunner has 6 contact points in 
line with the power supply (you need to count those in both the negative 
and positive lines)
If you have a K2/10, you can run it from the Rigrunner, but if a K2/100, 
wire it direct to the power supply - there will be less voltage drop.


Save the Rigrunner for accessories and other lower current devices.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/25/2020 10:15 AM, Don Schroder wrote:

Bob,

Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or RigRunner 
equipment?

For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?

I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!

Gunny, KE0PVQ

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gmail
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
To: Bob McGraw K4TAX
Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is 
reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run 14.0 out of supply.
Ray
W8LYJ

Sent from my iPad


On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:

As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE TRASH where it 
belongs.NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a 100 
watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply terminals.   
NO exceptions!

73

Bob, K4TAX



On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common factor
in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.

I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous.  At rest
the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to 11.5
or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable thru a
RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power supply from the
packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.

Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?

73 de Chuck, WS1L



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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Bill Frantz]

The short answer is that too much voltage drop on transmit puts 
radios in an operational configuration where they produce more 
IMD and other bad things.


Any connection in the power supply will introduce additional 
resistance. At the current levels used during 100W transmission, 
it doesn't take much to cause a significant voltage drop.


For example: 20 amps with a 0.05 ohm resistance. E=IR. 
20*0.05==>1 volt.


When you use a RigRunner system, you have added 2 additional 
PowerPole connectors plus the resistance of the automotive blade 
type fuse. That is not good.


To find out what is happening in your system, use a volt meter 
to measure the voltage drop over every connection. You might be 
surprised. I was surprised at the cost of a single automotive 
blade fuse in my solar+battery system. And all of them add up.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/25/20 at 10:15 AM, donandde...@hotmail.com (Don Schroder) wrote:


Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or RigRunner 
equipment?

For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?

I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!


Bill Frantz| Art is how we decorate space,
408-348-7900   | music is how we decorate time.
www.pwpconsult.com |  -Jean-Michel Basquiat

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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Jim Rhodes]

I had been using a power pole strip to power everything. After seeing some
discussion on this topic some time ago I found that in the string of 3
power pole connections in my setup at the time I was seeing around a 1 volt
drop in the voltage on the K3 metering between receive and 100 watts
keydown. That voltage drop was confirmed by my VOM so I wired the rig
directly to the supply and the voltage drop was less than 0.25 volts. That
is the way my rigs and VHF/UHF amps will be connected from now on with only
a fuse inline. The low current stuff will stay on the power pole strip
where they do just fine lighting up lights and stuff.

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 09:16 Don Schroder  wrote:

> Bob,
>
> Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or
> RigRunner equipment?
>
> For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?
>
> I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!
>
> Gunny, KE0PVQ
>
> Sent from Mail for
> Windows 10
>
> From: Gmail
> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
> To: Bob McGraw K4TAX
> Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation
>
> Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is
> reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run 14.0 out of supply.
> Ray
> W8LYJ
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> >
> > As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE TRASH where
> it belongs.NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a
> 100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply
> terminals.   NO exceptions!
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Bob, K4TAX
> >
> >
> >> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
> >> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common
> factor
> >> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
> >> rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.
> >>
> >> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous.  At
> rest
> >> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to
> 11.5
> >> or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable thru a
> >> RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power supply from
> the
> >> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
> >>
> >> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?
> >>
> >> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
> >>
> >
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Don Schroder]

Bob,

Is it safe to run my K2 using Anderson Power Pole connections, and/or RigRunner 
equipment?

For my info, what is the reason for NOT using them?

I’m rewiring, and I want to do it right!

Gunny, KE0PVQ

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gmail
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 9:03 AM
To: Bob McGraw K4TAX
Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is 
reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run 14.0 out of supply.
Ray
W8LYJ

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
>
> As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE TRASH where it 
> belongs.NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a 100 
> watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply terminals.  
>  NO exceptions!
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common factor
>> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
>> rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.
>>
>> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous.  At rest
>> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to 11.5
>> or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable thru a
>> RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power supply from the
>> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>>
>> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?
>>
>> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Gmail]

Nuts, just measure the drop between radio and power supply see if it is 
reasonable. Mine is 0.25 volts when transmitting.  I run 14.0 out of supply. 
Ray
W8LYJ

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 07:48, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE TRASH where it 
> belongs.NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power a 100 
> watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply terminals.  
>  NO exceptions!
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
>> On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:
>> After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common factor
>> in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
>> rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.
>> 
>> I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous.  At rest
>> the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to 11.5
>> or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable thru a
>> RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power supply from the
>> packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.
>> 
>> Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?
>> 
>> 73 de Chuck, WS1L
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

As to the RigRunner power pole strip.PUT IT IN THE TRASH where 
it belongs.    NEVER NEVER NEVER use a power distribution strip to power 
a 100 watt radio.   ALWAYS connect the radio direct to the power supply 
terminals.   NO exceptions!


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 4/25/2020 7:13 AM, Chuck Chandler wrote:

After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common factor
in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.

I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous.  At rest
the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to 11.5
or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable thru a
RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power supply from the
packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.

Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?

73 de Chuck, WS1L



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[Elecraft] K3S poor CW keying further investigation

[Chuck Chandler]

After more checking, I suspect the internal 100W amp is the common factor
in the poor keying characteristics I'm seeing and hearing about from my
rig.  I am trying to determine if my power supply is doing it's job.

I'm using a TenTec 963 switching supply rated at 25A continuous.  At rest
the K3S panel display shows 13.6V, with full power key down it dips to 11.5
or so.  This seems like a lot.  I'm running the power cable thru a
RigRunner Powerpole strip.  If I can dig out another power supply from the
packed boxes I can wire the K3S directly to the supply.

Is 11.5V at key down enough to cause the slow rise time being reported?

73 de Chuck, WS1L

-- 


===
Chuck Chandler
chandler...@gmail.com
===
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 with older Heil headset

[Carter Craigie]

YES, a LOT of Mic Gain!

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:03 PM Nr4c  wrote:

> Oops, one more thing.  You’ll need lots of mic gain.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
> > On Apr 24, 2020, at 8:29 PM, Bert  wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I want to use an older Heil headset, with an HC-4 element, with my KX3.
> >
> > Despite having tried different settings for the microphone, I can't make
> it work.
> > Your ideas and suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks!
> >
> > Bert VE3NR
> >
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 S-meter characteristics

[volker.de...@t-online.de]

Well said, Brian. A calibrated S-meter may be helpfull for side-to-side on-air 
equipment comparisons (e.g. antennas) and not for contest business. From time 
to time you will even find a few people fighting the 20dB HF to VHF/UHF 
offset

Real- world VHF transverters do need slightly more than 20dB rx coversion gain 
(abt 25dB), so an "transverter s- meter  correction" would be highly 
appreciated for the K4.

My ANAN SDRs do have it, my K3 not

73
Volker

DL4ZBG/DK0B


-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: Re: [Elecraft] K4 S-meter characteristics
Datum: 2020-04-25T01:45:37+0200
Von: "Brian Denley" 
An: "Charlie T" 

The International Amateur Radio Union (IARU) Region 1 agreed on a technical 
recommendation for S Meter calibration for HF and VHF/UHF transceivers in 1981.

Why go back to 1947?

Brian Denley
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 24, 2020, at 6:30 PM, Charlie T  wrote:
> 
> S-meters should be calibrated with 9 signal levels:   
> 
> *Faint - Signal barely perceptible
> *Very weak signals
> *Weak signals
> *Fair signals
> *Fairly good signals
> *Good signals
> *Moderately strong signals
> *Strong signals
> *Extremely strong signals
> 
> (Reprinted from the 1947 ARRL Handbook, page 466 "RST System of Signal 
> Reports")
> 
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
> Behalf Of John Stengrevics
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 7:49 AM
> To: Morgan Bailey 
> Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 S-meter characteristics
> 
> Agree completely.  I find all S meters to be totally inaccurate and next to 
> useless, including my K3S’.  
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Morgan Bailey  wrote:
>> 
>> Maybe it is just me but, Turn the radio on, adjust the audio/rf/agc 
>> controls, hear the station, work him, move on. I dont need a fancy dbm 
>> or an iconic number of engineering controls, to say what the dbm was 
>> when I worked the guy. When you contest, who the hell cares, hear him, 
>> work him, move on. In simple terms, I just want selectivity, and no 
>> agc pumping and no front in desensing from a 40 db over nine station 2khz 
>> away.
>> 
>> Im looking forward to a quiet front end, that keeps me from having to 
>> listen to 48 hours of static that is generated by the stages with in 
>> the radio. Love my K3S, great radio. Simple to operate once you learn 
>> its controls and never has failed me.
>> 
>> Looking forward to K4 delivery.
>> 
>> Vy 73,
>> Morgan Bailey NJ8M
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Frequency display on P3?

[Clay Autery]

+1, yup!  Mine is spot on, as calibrated... as in less than 1 Hz error rate.

__
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(318) 518-1389

On 04/24/20 20:27, M. George wrote:

It sounds like you need to do the frequency calibration as documented on
page 39 of the manual

:
https://ftp.elecraft.com/P3/Manuals%20Downloads/E740152%20P3%20Owner's%20man%20Rev%20H1.pdf

Max NG7M


On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:14 PM Frank O'Donnell  wrote:


Here's what I'm sure is a beginner question.

If I feed an accurate signal from a waveform generator into my K3S, on
the P3 it appears right about 120 Hz higher than the actual frequency.
This seems to be independent of the mode the K3S is in. What causes that?

I noticed this when I had my K3S/P3 running while working the ARRL
Frequency Measurement Test with other gear, and was curious about it.

Thanks much,

Frank K6FOD


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Astron RS-35M Transformer Hum

[Clay Autery]

LOL!  That's funny!

73,

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(318) 518-1389

On 04/24/20 18:21, Dale Boresz wrote:

I have a stack of QST magazines from 1996 resting on top of my Astron
VS-35M. No transformer hum at all!

Have not tried magazines from any other years, so YMMV...

73,
Dale - WA8SRA

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