[Elecraft] Lightning concerns: Was: K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[Rick NK7I]

Thread subject changed to reflect the actual topic.

It is the station owner that is responsible for lightning protection (or 
other environmental risks); not Elecraft or most any product vendor of 
any type.  To require more, would cost more (for the hardware and for 
the liability risk that the company would have to endure).


The area/s missed in the protective system design, can be demonstrated 
by a nearby or direct hit (induced voltages and current can be almost as 
damaging); as you already found (and it's EASY to miss an entry point, 
no blame intended).


The ARRL has a good amount of simplified how-to in the book "Grounding 
and Bonding" but several readings may still be needed for understanding 
the content.  There are other good resources (Motorola has one, so does 
the cell phone industry; each is excellent but best used to induce 
sleep, they are intense and technical and reference various applicable 
laws).


It's not all about lightning but static dissipation as an energy 
source.  That static source may also be dust, wind, snow, or rain (yes, 
water).  Diverting that charge OUTSIDE the building (shack) to GROUND is 
the basic plan but it must also include EVERY entry point (cable TV, 
phone, DSL, antenna, rotor, control cables for antennas, mast, satellite 
dishes and tower).


Using several ground rods as part of a system is common BUT they must 
all be bonded to each other AND to the one common safety ground of the 
building (US and other countries require this, by law).  Use of water 
pipes is no longer code, in the US (because PEX and PVC are common, 
defeating ability to take to ground).


From your description Jorge, it sounds like you did it correctly, but 
missed an entry point.  Now you'll have to replace parts, sadly.


Let's limit any more, to Elecraft specific topics.  This one has 
wandered well afield of Elecraft.


73,
Rick nk7i


On 5/4/2024 9:21 PM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:

Hi Dave

I have a panel like yours, each antenna to a discharger, on a copper sheet.
Nothing has happened with the coaxial and antenna switch

I have several rods that make the ground and a copper bar behind the desk
and all the equipment is connected to the ground

The lighting came through the antenna of my internet link, then it went to
the router, then to the computer where I have the kpa1500 connected with a
USB cable

My question about whether Elecraft could do more is whether there could be
something better than the USB it currently has, which seems to me to be a
simple USB connector, like that of any printer for example.

So there is my question, if for such an expensive piece of equipment, there
could be something of better quality, if not, I apologize, we will have to
live with these things.

See you in the bands!!!

Have a good weekend!

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

El dom, 5 may 2024 a las 1:08, Dave (NK7Z) () escribió:


Jorge,

I can only go by what you said:

"Last week I experienced a lightning strike"

That sounds a lot like a direct discharge into the shack, so I am
responding to your comment, if that is not correct, please help me
understand what actually happened...

Lightening is strange, it can take out one piece of equipment, and not
touch another...  It all depends on how your shack is grounded, and how
it is bonded.  When grounding commercial equipment, even the path the
wire takes is important...  Curves, straight line runs, etc...

What sort of ground system are you using, and what sort of lightening
protection did you have in place at the time of the lightening event?

Take a look at:

https://www.nk7z.net/building-a-coax-entry-panel/

That is my entry panel.  I am slowly building a ground ring around the
house...  Why?  Because only I can build a system to help reduce the
chances of lightening taking out something in my environment.  It is
after all my home, and my environment, so I can not, and do not, hold
Elecraft responsible for things they can not control.  Elecraft, can not
be responsible for my grounding, and bonding practices.

Respectfully, in your original question you implied that Elecraft should
have done more to make the KPA1500 withstand an as yet, correctly
defined lightening event.  Again, respectfully, if you believe Elecraft
failed in some way, then you should say what, and how they failed...
Not imply they should have done more...  That is unfair.

With respect to the weekend-- I hope to see you in the 7QP contest!  I
will be on Sunday, but I fear the Sun will not assist much...  Take care
my friend...

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 5/4/24 17:42, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:

hi Dave

I don't know what to tell you, I imagine that a direct discharge into
the shack would have burned everything.

I had 6 USB cables connected to the laptop, they burned the USB of a box
of GHE that costs $160 and the USB of the KPA1500 that costs +$7000

Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[Dave (NK7Z)]

Hi again,

Your grounding sounds good.  I suspect the USB connection used by 
Elecraft was standard, and not something that was lightening proof, so 
yes, any manufacturer can do more, the question is why increase the cost 
of the amp to everyone, when there is little chance the protection will 
ever be used?


If there were a preponderance of KPA1500 amps loosing USB drivers, then 
I might agree with you, but so far, your amp is the only one I have 
heard about that took a lightening hit, and the only one I have heard 
about that has lost a USB driver...


If all you lost was the USB driver, then you are a lucky man, go buy a 
lotto ticket today!!  I would expect a lot more to be damaged by a 
lightening strike...


In any case, it is too bad the amp failed, but by that same token, it is 
really good that is all that happened!


As you mentioned a bit ago, the more hi-tech an items is the more 
sensitive it becomes...


73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 5/4/24 21:21, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:

Hi Dave

I have a panel like yours, each antenna to a discharger, on a copper 
sheet. Nothing has happened with the coaxial and antenna switch


I have several rods that make the ground and a copper bar behind the 
desk and all the equipment is connected to the ground


The lighting came through the antenna of my internet link, then it went 
to the router, then to the computer where I have the kpa1500 connected 
with a USB cable


My question about whether Elecraft could do more is whether there could 
be something better than the USB it currently has, which seems to me to 
be a simple USB connector, like that of any printer for example.


So there is my question, if for such an expensive piece of equipment, 
there could be something of better quality, if not, I apologize, we will 
have to live with these things.


See you in the bands!!!

Have a good weekend!

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

El dom, 5 may 2024 a las 1:08, Dave (NK7Z) (>) escribió:


Jorge,

I can only go by what you said:

"Last week I experienced a lightning strike"

That sounds a lot like a direct discharge into the shack, so I am
responding to your comment, if that is not correct, please help me
understand what actually happened...

Lightening is strange, it can take out one piece of equipment, and not
touch another...  It all depends on how your shack is grounded, and how
it is bonded.  When grounding commercial equipment, even the path the
wire takes is important...  Curves, straight line runs, etc...

What sort of ground system are you using, and what sort of lightening
protection did you have in place at the time of the lightening event?

Take a look at:

https://www.nk7z.net/building-a-coax-entry-panel/


That is my entry panel.  I am slowly building a ground ring around the
house...  Why?  Because only I can build a system to help reduce the
chances of lightening taking out something in my environment.  It is
after all my home, and my environment, so I can not, and do not, hold
Elecraft responsible for things they can not control.  Elecraft, can
not
be responsible for my grounding, and bonding practices.

Respectfully, in your original question you implied that Elecraft
should
have done more to make the KPA1500 withstand an as yet, correctly
defined lightening event.  Again, respectfully, if you believe Elecraft
failed in some way, then you should say what, and how they failed...
Not imply they should have done more...  That is unfair.

With respect to the weekend-- I hope to see you in the 7QP contest!  I
will be on Sunday, but I fear the Sun will not assist much...  Take
care
my friend...

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net 
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 5/4/24 17:42, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
 > hi Dave
 >
 > I don't know what to tell you, I imagine that a direct discharge
into
 > the shack would have burned everything.
 >
 > I had 6 USB cables connected to the laptop, they burned the USB
of a box
 > of GHE that costs $160 and the USB of the KPA1500 that costs +$7000
 >
 > rotor controls and other PCs did not burn
 >
 > In short, it was the fear I had of buying new and sophisticated
 > equipment living so far from where the company is located.
 >
 > Have a good weekend
 >
 > 73,
 > Jorge
 > CX6VM/CW5W
 >
 > El sáb, 4 may 2024 a las 21:31, Dave (NK7Z) (mailto:d...@nk7z.net>
 > >>) escribió:
 >
 >     Hi Jorge,
 >
 >     That 

Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[Jorge Diez - CX6VM]

Hi Dave

I have a panel like yours, each antenna to a discharger, on a copper sheet.
Nothing has happened with the coaxial and antenna switch

I have several rods that make the ground and a copper bar behind the desk
and all the equipment is connected to the ground

The lighting came through the antenna of my internet link, then it went to
the router, then to the computer where I have the kpa1500 connected with a
USB cable

My question about whether Elecraft could do more is whether there could be
something better than the USB it currently has, which seems to me to be a
simple USB connector, like that of any printer for example.

So there is my question, if for such an expensive piece of equipment, there
could be something of better quality, if not, I apologize, we will have to
live with these things.

See you in the bands!!!

Have a good weekend!

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

El dom, 5 may 2024 a las 1:08, Dave (NK7Z) () escribió:

> Jorge,
>
> I can only go by what you said:
>
> "Last week I experienced a lightning strike"
>
> That sounds a lot like a direct discharge into the shack, so I am
> responding to your comment, if that is not correct, please help me
> understand what actually happened...
>
> Lightening is strange, it can take out one piece of equipment, and not
> touch another...  It all depends on how your shack is grounded, and how
> it is bonded.  When grounding commercial equipment, even the path the
> wire takes is important...  Curves, straight line runs, etc...
>
> What sort of ground system are you using, and what sort of lightening
> protection did you have in place at the time of the lightening event?
>
> Take a look at:
>
> https://www.nk7z.net/building-a-coax-entry-panel/
>
> That is my entry panel.  I am slowly building a ground ring around the
> house...  Why?  Because only I can build a system to help reduce the
> chances of lightening taking out something in my environment.  It is
> after all my home, and my environment, so I can not, and do not, hold
> Elecraft responsible for things they can not control.  Elecraft, can not
> be responsible for my grounding, and bonding practices.
>
> Respectfully, in your original question you implied that Elecraft should
> have done more to make the KPA1500 withstand an as yet, correctly
> defined lightening event.  Again, respectfully, if you believe Elecraft
> failed in some way, then you should say what, and how they failed...
> Not imply they should have done more...  That is unfair.
>
> With respect to the weekend-- I hope to see you in the 7QP contest!  I
> will be on Sunday, but I fear the Sun will not assist much...  Take care
> my friend...
>
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
> On 5/4/24 17:42, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
> > hi Dave
> >
> > I don't know what to tell you, I imagine that a direct discharge into
> > the shack would have burned everything.
> >
> > I had 6 USB cables connected to the laptop, they burned the USB of a box
> > of GHE that costs $160 and the USB of the KPA1500 that costs +$7000
> >
> > rotor controls and other PCs did not burn
> >
> > In short, it was the fear I had of buying new and sophisticated
> > equipment living so far from where the company is located.
> >
> > Have a good weekend
> >
> > 73,
> > Jorge
> > CX6VM/CW5W
> >
> > El sáb, 4 may 2024 a las 21:31, Dave (NK7Z) ( > >) escribió:
> >
> > Hi Jorge,
> >
> > That device would not stand a strike...  As per the US Weather
> service,
> > (https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-power
> > ), a typical
> lightening
> > bolt runs around 300,000,000 volts, at 30,000 amps.  That device is
> > speced for 4000 volts...
> >
> > For Elecraft to protect the amp against a lightening strike as you
> > described you had, they would need to add a LOT more hardware than
> that
> > to the price of an already expensive amp, and most people would never
> > see need the protection.  Hence why they don't even try and protect
> > against a direct lightening strike.
> >
> > The onus for lightening protection always rests with the device
> owner.
> >
> > 73, and thanks,
> > Dave (NK7Z)
> > https://www.nk7z.net 
> > ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> > ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> > ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
> >
> > On 5/4/24 16:36, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
> >  > Dave
> >  >
> >  > I am not an engineer and I don't know anything about electronics
> > either,
> >  > but I am very receptive to the solutions that many radio friends
> > give me.
> >  >
> >  > which made me think if the kpa1500 or k4 usb was built with
> > something
> >  > like this,
> >  >
> >
> 

Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[Dave (NK7Z)]

Jorge,

I can only go by what you said:

"Last week I experienced a lightning strike"

That sounds a lot like a direct discharge into the shack, so I am 
responding to your comment, if that is not correct, please help me 
understand what actually happened...


Lightening is strange, it can take out one piece of equipment, and not 
touch another...  It all depends on how your shack is grounded, and how 
it is bonded.  When grounding commercial equipment, even the path the 
wire takes is important...  Curves, straight line runs, etc...


What sort of ground system are you using, and what sort of lightening 
protection did you have in place at the time of the lightening event?


Take a look at:

https://www.nk7z.net/building-a-coax-entry-panel/

That is my entry panel.  I am slowly building a ground ring around the 
house...  Why?  Because only I can build a system to help reduce the 
chances of lightening taking out something in my environment.  It is 
after all my home, and my environment, so I can not, and do not, hold 
Elecraft responsible for things they can not control.  Elecraft, can not 
be responsible for my grounding, and bonding practices.


Respectfully, in your original question you implied that Elecraft should 
have done more to make the KPA1500 withstand an as yet, correctly 
defined lightening event.  Again, respectfully, if you believe Elecraft 
failed in some way, then you should say what, and how they failed... 
Not imply they should have done more...  That is unfair.


With respect to the weekend-- I hope to see you in the 7QP contest!  I 
will be on Sunday, but I fear the Sun will not assist much...  Take care 
my friend...


73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 5/4/24 17:42, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:

hi Dave

I don't know what to tell you, I imagine that a direct discharge into 
the shack would have burned everything.


I had 6 USB cables connected to the laptop, they burned the USB of a box 
of GHE that costs $160 and the USB of the KPA1500 that costs +$7000


rotor controls and other PCs did not burn

In short, it was the fear I had of buying new and sophisticated 
equipment living so far from where the company is located.


Have a good weekend

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

El sáb, 4 may 2024 a las 21:31, Dave (NK7Z) (>) escribió:


Hi Jorge,

That device would not stand a strike...  As per the US Weather service,
(https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-power
), a typical lightening
bolt runs around 300,000,000 volts, at 30,000 amps.  That device is
speced for 4000 volts...

For Elecraft to protect the amp against a lightening strike as you
described you had, they would need to add a LOT more hardware than that
to the price of an already expensive amp, and most people would never
see need the protection.  Hence why they don't even try and protect
against a direct lightening strike.

The onus for lightening protection always rests with the device owner.

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net 
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 5/4/24 16:36, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
 > Dave
 >
 > I am not an engineer and I don't know anything about electronics
either,
 > but I am very receptive to the solutions that many radio friends
give me.
 >
 > which made me think if the kpa1500 or k4 usb was built with
something
 > like this,
 >
https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387A 

 >
 it might be beneficial or not, just thinking out loud
 >
 > 73,
 > Jorge
 > CX6VM/CW5W
 >
 > El sáb, 4 may 2024 a las 19:06, Dave (NK7Z) (mailto:d...@nk7z.net>
 > >>) escribió:
 >
 >     Jorge,
 >
 >     I would imagine if you approach Elecraft with that mindset, their
 >     thoughts will be you should take care of your own lightening
protection.
 >
 >     73, and thanks,
 >     Dave (NK7Z)
 > https://www.nk7z.net  >
 >     ARRL Volunteer Examiner
 >     ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
 >     ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
 >
 >     On 5/4/24 09:10, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
 >      > Last week I experienced a lightning strike and the I/O
module of
 >    

[Elecraft] Elecraft CW Net Announcement

[kevin]

Good Evening,

   It has been a cold, wet, snowy week.  My daffodils look fresh due to 
the chill.  They last for weeks during the end of winter. Birds are 
settling in.  A few woodpeckers are making homes.


   The sun is very active.  Multiple CME hits and near misses, with 
another due tomorrow.  A variety of flares blacked out RF too.  We may 
be able to communicate tomorrow, or I could hear a steady roaring sound.



Please join us on (or near):

14050 kHz at 2200z Sunday (3 PM PDT Sunday)
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   73,
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[Fred Jensen]

Supported myself during college at the local TV station ... very late 
1950's. Station was on a ridge, we got lots of lightning strikes on our 
tower. The grounding ["earthing"] of the entire station was super 
extensive. We still occasionally lost equipment, mostly the smaller 
uwave equipment outside, despite the grounding.  Direct lightning 
strikes are so intense and large.  Lightning is also an RF event.  What 
happens in a near but safe place can create very large currents in 
nearby conductors.




73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

G4GNX wrote on 5/4/2024 5:45 PM:

Probably a great device, but why would Elecraft risk infringing someone else’s 
patent and increasing the price of the K4 by an extra $100, rather than letting 
the individual decide if they need and buy their own?

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700





On 5 May 2024, at 00:36, Jorge Diez - CX6VM  wrote:

Dave

I am not an engineer and I don't know anything about electronics either,
but I am very receptive to the solutions that many radio friends give me.

which made me think if the kpa1500 or k4 usb was built with something like
this,
https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387A
it might be beneficial or not, just thinking out loud

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[G4GNX]

Probably a great device, but why would Elecraft risk infringing someone else’s 
patent and increasing the price of the K4 by an extra $100, rather than letting 
the individual decide if they need and buy their own?

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700




> On 5 May 2024, at 00:36, Jorge Diez - CX6VM  wrote:
> 
> Dave
> 
> I am not an engineer and I don't know anything about electronics either,
> but I am very receptive to the solutions that many radio friends give me.
> 
> which made me think if the kpa1500 or k4 usb was built with something like
> this,
> https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387A
> it might be beneficial or not, just thinking out loud
> 
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[Jorge Diez - CX6VM]

hi Dave

I don't know what to tell you, I imagine that a direct discharge into the
shack would have burned everything.

I had 6 USB cables connected to the laptop, they burned the USB of a box of
GHE that costs $160 and the USB of the KPA1500 that costs +$7000

rotor controls and other PCs did not burn

In short, it was the fear I had of buying new and sophisticated equipment
living so far from where the company is located.

Have a good weekend

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

El sáb, 4 may 2024 a las 21:31, Dave (NK7Z) () escribió:

> Hi Jorge,
>
> That device would not stand a strike...  As per the US Weather service,
> (https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-power), a typical lightening
> bolt runs around 300,000,000 volts, at 30,000 amps.  That device is
> speced for 4000 volts...
>
> For Elecraft to protect the amp against a lightening strike as you
> described you had, they would need to add a LOT more hardware than that
> to the price of an already expensive amp, and most people would never
> see need the protection.  Hence why they don't even try and protect
> against a direct lightening strike.
>
> The onus for lightening protection always rests with the device owner.
>
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
> On 5/4/24 16:36, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
> > Dave
> >
> > I am not an engineer and I don't know anything about electronics either,
> > but I am very receptive to the solutions that many radio friends give me.
> >
> > which made me think if the kpa1500 or k4 usb was built with something
> > like this,
> >
> https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387A
> <
> https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387A>
> it might be beneficial or not, just thinking out loud
> >
> > 73,
> > Jorge
> > CX6VM/CW5W
> >
> > El sáb, 4 may 2024 a las 19:06, Dave (NK7Z) ( > >) escribió:
> >
> > Jorge,
> >
> > I would imagine if you approach Elecraft with that mindset, their
> > thoughts will be you should take care of your own lightening
> protection.
> >
> > 73, and thanks,
> > Dave (NK7Z)
> > https://www.nk7z.net 
> > ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> > ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> > ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
> >
> > On 5/4/24 09:10, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
> >  > Last week I experienced a lightning strike and the I/O module of
> > my KPA1500
> >  > was damaged, what has Elecraft thought to ensure that the
> > equipment is not
> >  > damaged?
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > 
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > 
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net  Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
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> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 73,
> > Jorge
> > CX6VM/CW5W
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-- 
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[Dave (NK7Z)]

Hi Jorge,

That device would not stand a strike...  As per the US Weather service, 
(https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-power), a typical lightening 
bolt runs around 300,000,000 volts, at 30,000 amps.  That device is 
speced for 4000 volts...


For Elecraft to protect the amp against a lightening strike as you 
described you had, they would need to add a LOT more hardware than that 
to the price of an already expensive amp, and most people would never 
see need the protection.  Hence why they don't even try and protect 
against a direct lightening strike.


The onus for lightening protection always rests with the device owner.

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 5/4/24 16:36, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:

Dave

I am not an engineer and I don't know anything about electronics either, 
but I am very receptive to the solutions that many radio friends give me.


which made me think if the kpa1500 or k4 usb was built with something 
like this, 
https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387A  it might be beneficial or not, just thinking out loud


73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

El sáb, 4 may 2024 a las 19:06, Dave (NK7Z) (>) escribió:


Jorge,

I would imagine if you approach Elecraft with that mindset, their
thoughts will be you should take care of your own lightening protection.

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net 
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 5/4/24 09:10, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
 > Last week I experienced a lightning strike and the I/O module of
my KPA1500
 > was damaged, what has Elecraft thought to ensure that the
equipment is not
 > damaged?
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--
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

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Re: [Elecraft] Anew k3 owner de ai5os.

[David Woolley]

On 03/05/2024 23:25, Justin Mann wrote:

I notice that the rig has the original 2.8K filter installed, so I’m
thinking that I should add a few more filter to optimize performance


You should first determine whether you are suffering a problem that will 
benefit from this.  XTAL filters will help if you are suffering from 
strong adjacent channel interference, but will degrade the pass band 
flatness, and, probably, the group delay characteristics (pulses will be 
more smeared out).  (I don't know if all the K3 filters are FIR, which 
is needed for ideal group delay behaviour.)



with some different modes.  Were I to add a 250 HZ CW filter would that
also work at 500 HZ?


An ideal 250Hz filter would limit the maximum bandwidth to 250 Hz.  It 
will be even less ideal than the DSP but will dominate the overall 
frequency response outside the 250 Hz (and even near the edges, within 
it).  I'd expect the response to be 10s of dB down before 500 Hz, maybe 
over 60.


--
David Woolley

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[Jorge Diez - CX6VM]

Dave

I am not an engineer and I don't know anything about electronics either,
but I am very receptive to the solutions that many radio friends give me.

which made me think if the kpa1500 or k4 usb was built with something like
this,
https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387A
it might be beneficial or not, just thinking out loud

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

El sáb, 4 may 2024 a las 19:06, Dave (NK7Z) () escribió:

> Jorge,
>
> I would imagine if you approach Elecraft with that mindset, their
> thoughts will be you should take care of your own lightening protection.
>
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
> On 5/4/24 09:10, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
> > Last week I experienced a lightning strike and the I/O module of my
> KPA1500
> > was damaged, what has Elecraft thought to ensure that the equipment is
> not
> > damaged?
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>


-- 
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[G4GNX]

I can’t see where a more robust USB connector would affect remote operation via 
a LAN cable.

Better isolation can be obtained by installing a WiFi dongle.

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700




> On 4 May 2024, at 17:57, Jorge Diez - CX6VM  wrote:
> 
> of course that we need to take care of many things, very good grounding, gas 
> arrestors, single antenna grounding panel, etc, etc
> 
> but, after my bad experience, I expect that a expensive product that is 
> designed, in many cases, to be installed remotely, has been, for example on 
> the USB connector, built with an industrial USB to USB isolator, and not just 
> a cheap printer´s USB connector
> 
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[Dave (NK7Z)]

Jorge,

I would imagine if you approach Elecraft with that mindset, their 
thoughts will be you should take care of your own lightening protection.


73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 5/4/24 09:10, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:

Last week I experienced a lightning strike and the I/O module of my KPA1500
was damaged, what has Elecraft thought to ensure that the equipment is not
damaged?

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Re: [Elecraft] elecraft net?

[Fred Jensen]

Kevin, KD5ONS, in OR runs a CW net on 20 [14050 +/-] at 2000Z? and 
another on 7050 or close at 2300Z on Sun.  Not sure of the times but he 
usually posts the notice here each week.  There is at least one other 
SSB net but don't know the details since I lost my microphone.




73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

Justin Mann via Elecraft wrote on 5/4/2024 1:45 PM:

Hi there,
Is there a listing of the Elecraft nets that are on the HF bands? I seem to 
recall there was one on 20m but don't recall the schedule.
Sent from my iPhone
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[Elecraft] elecraft net?

[Justin Mann via Elecraft]

Hi there,
Is there a listing of the Elecraft nets that are on the HF bands? I seem to 
recall there was one on 20m but don't recall the schedule. 
Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Elecraft] Using the k3 with WITHSJTX?

[Rick NK7I]

No content, please use plain text when sending to THIS list. (no 
formatting or HTML)


Thank you,
Rick nk7i

On 5/4/2024 10:59 AM, Ray wrote:

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Re: [Elecraft] Using the k3 with WITHSJTX?

[Ray]

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote: Station design

[Rick NK7I]

 * Elecraft has no control in how one sets up (or uses) a station.
 * A remote station needs all of the same protection enjoyed by any
   other station; they are the same except one is used remotely.

On the last premise; set up the remote station as if it were any other 
station; RFI and noise mitigation, generator back up power, UPS, 
lightning protection*; GROUNDING AND BONDING, heating and (!) cooling 
(!); again just like any station should appear and operate (even if it's 
stuffed into a closet).


The power supply system should provide for continuous power to the 
network too.  It's MORE important if the station is intended for remote 
ops.  The control operator (local or remote) is required to have FULL 
control over the station operations; plan for worst case events that 
would affect that; loss of network is a key consideration for remote use.


[I have a lot of UPS, one per mesh node included, for the approx one 
minute until the generator switches in upon power failure and one  UPS 
per computer power source to keep the services I provide, online.  
Simply because Starlink and the network takes over ten minutes to 
re-establish with a power loss.  That's a long key down time!]


It is up to the USER (remote in particular) to operate the station 
(remote or local) in a way that does not cause harm (on the air or 
through ab/use).  This means small things like making sure the 
transmitter is not locked on (CW key down, FSK transmit) in the event of 
a network fail so it cannot be unkeyed (use of VOX or macros and memory 
use for sending non-phone message strings)


That's nothing new.  A remote station, is just another station with the 
same needs and planning as any other station; except the goal is to use 
it remotely and the ability to control it at all times during use.


73,
Rick nk7i

* Lightning protection how-to or discussion is beyond the scope of this 
group, but EVERY STATION should have a system in place WITH grounding 
and bonding of every item in the shack, includes every wire that enters 
the building (cable TV, phone, power, DSL) or that sticks into the air 
for radio (tower/mast, sat dishes, antennas).


Even if the station location rarely has lightning.  Properly done, the 
protection system would also help static buildup, from rain, wind, snow, 
dust or any other cause.  Static discharge cause is more than lightning 
and can also damage (or destroy) equipment.


Even then, a direct hit may not save the station but it will show what 
was NOT properly taken care of, what was missed in the protection system.


In some cases, it can even lower the noise floor (MAY, not will).


On 5/4/2024 9:36 AM, G4GNX wrote:

I don’t think you can expect Elecraft to take care of any safety issues, 
especially with lightning.

You could install a remote camera to keep an eye on things, along with smoke 
detectors and some form of extinguisher, such as those now available for 3D 
printers.
To protect from lightning, you’d need to install antenna switches which can be 
controlled either automatically or remotely.
You also need to install lightning arrestors.
Of course all of this won’t prevent damage if you get a direct strike.
To internally protect a K4 or any other Elecraft product is just downright 
impossible.
“Acts of God” are just what they are and mostly out of our control.

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700





On 4 May 2024, at 17:10, Jorge Diez - CX6VM  wrote:

Wayne

What worries me is having a very expensive device like a K4 connected in a
remote place, to the antennas, power and internet

How to avoid damage to the equipment?

Last week I experienced a lightning strike and the I/O module of my KPA1500
was damaged, what has Elecraft thought to ensure that the equipment is not
damaged?

With the remote K3, what was connected to the network was the remoterig,
with the K4 what is connected to the network is a device worth more than
6000 dollars

So, since the I/O module does not have sufficient protections, what is
Elecraft's recommendation to protect them?

thanks,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[Jorge Diez - CX6VM]

of course that we need to take care of many things, very good grounding,
gas arrestors, single antenna grounding panel, etc, etc

but, after my bad experience, I expect that a expensive product that is
designed, in many cases, to be installed remotely, has been, for example on
the USB connector, built with an industrial USB to USB isolator, and not
just a cheap printer´s USB connector

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

El sáb, 4 may 2024 a las 13:37, G4GNX () escribió:

> I don’t think you can expect Elecraft to take care of any safety issues,
> especially with lightning.
>
> You could install a remote camera to keep an eye on things, along with
> smoke detectors and some form of extinguisher, such as those now available
> for 3D printers.
> To protect from lightning, you’d need to install antenna switches which
> can be controlled either automatically or remotely.
> You also need to install lightning arrestors.
> Of course all of this won’t prevent damage if you get a direct strike.
> To internally protect a K4 or any other Elecraft product is just downright
> impossible.
> “Acts of God” are just what they are and mostly out of our control.
>
> 73,
> Alan - G4GNX
> South Coast UK
> Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700
>
>
>
>
> > On 4 May 2024, at 17:10, Jorge Diez - CX6VM 
> wrote:
> >
> > Wayne
> >
> > What worries me is having a very expensive device like a K4 connected in
> a
> > remote place, to the antennas, power and internet
> >
> > How to avoid damage to the equipment?
> >
> > Last week I experienced a lightning strike and the I/O module of my
> KPA1500
> > was damaged, what has Elecraft thought to ensure that the equipment is
> not
> > damaged?
> >
> > With the remote K3, what was connected to the network was the remoterig,
> > with the K4 what is connected to the network is a device worth more than
> > 6000 dollars
> >
> > So, since the I/O module does not have sufficient protections, what is
> > Elecraft's recommendation to protect them?
> >
> > thanks,
> > Jorge
> > CX6VM/CW5W
>
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-- 
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[G4GNX]

I don’t think you can expect Elecraft to take care of any safety issues, 
especially with lightning.

You could install a remote camera to keep an eye on things, along with smoke 
detectors and some form of extinguisher, such as those now available for 3D 
printers.
To protect from lightning, you’d need to install antenna switches which can be 
controlled either automatically or remotely.
You also need to install lightning arrestors.
Of course all of this won’t prevent damage if you get a direct strike.
To internally protect a K4 or any other Elecraft product is just downright 
impossible.
“Acts of God” are just what they are and mostly out of our control.

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700




> On 4 May 2024, at 17:10, Jorge Diez - CX6VM  wrote:
> 
> Wayne
> 
> What worries me is having a very expensive device like a K4 connected in a
> remote place, to the antennas, power and internet
> 
> How to avoid damage to the equipment?
> 
> Last week I experienced a lightning strike and the I/O module of my KPA1500
> was damaged, what has Elecraft thought to ensure that the equipment is not
> damaged?
> 
> With the remote K3, what was connected to the network was the remoterig,
> with the K4 what is connected to the network is a device worth more than
> 6000 dollars
> 
> So, since the I/O module does not have sufficient protections, what is
> Elecraft's recommendation to protect them?
> 
> thanks,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[Jorge Diez - CX6VM]

Wayne

What worries me is having a very expensive device like a K4 connected in a
remote place, to the antennas, power and internet

How to avoid damage to the equipment?

Last week I experienced a lightning strike and the I/O module of my KPA1500
was damaged, what has Elecraft thought to ensure that the equipment is not
damaged?

With the remote K3, what was connected to the network was the remoterig,
with the K4 what is connected to the network is a device worth more than
6000 dollars

So, since the I/O module does not have sufficient protections, what is
Elecraft's recommendation to protect them?

thanks,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

El sáb, 4 may 2024 a las 12:41, Wayne Burdick ()
escribió:

> Now that Remote is available to all K4 owners, we'd love to hear how
> you're using it.
>
> For me, Remote has added an unexpected new dimension to HF QRP operation.
>
> At my home station in the SF Bay area, I have a mediocre antenna farm (OCF
> dipole and a 16' vertical). Nothing rotates. Nothing changes length at the
> touch of a button. Birds who fly through my near-field live to tell their
> young.
>
> Worse, I'm at the mercy of my electrically noisy neighbors.
>
> Fortunately, I have a friend who lives 800 miles north of my QTH. He has
> huge directive antennas on a massive tower, not to mention an unbelievably
> low noise floor. I've been envious of his riparian RF ecosystem for years,
> mine being a desert in comparison.
>
> Now, using K4 Remote, I can virtually operate his station whenever he (or
> someone else) isn't using it. And since I'm controlling his K4 with my own,
> there's no difference in the UI or feature set. I've still got three
> 400-count optical encoders for VFO A, B, and RIT/XIT; QSK CW with AFX
> stereo; all the same computer and software interfaces, and his high-res
> panadapter on my LCD and HDMI monitor.
>
> (It's not just the next best thing to being there. It *is* being there.)
>
> Once he installed the new beta release, I kicked off a new effort: 1-watt
> CW DXCC. With his antennas, it shouldn't take long.
>
> For example, the other day I was tuning around 20 meters locally (i.e.,
> using my own antenna) and heard only a few EU stations, peaking around S5.
> Three seconds later I was using my friend's station -- the band was now
> wall-to-wall S9+ DX. I dialed his radio down to 1 Watt and immediately
> picked up a few new ones.
>
> While many K4 owners will be using Remote with KPA1500s, chasing top spots
> in contests and adding to their 300+ country totals, some of us will be
> nibbling at the fringes, like so many cleaner wrasses on a great white. I
> hope to hear these stories, as well.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
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>


-- 
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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[Elecraft] K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north

[Wayne Burdick]

Now that Remote is available to all K4 owners, we'd love to hear how you're 
using it. 

For me, Remote has added an unexpected new dimension to HF QRP operation.

At my home station in the SF Bay area, I have a mediocre antenna farm (OCF 
dipole and a 16' vertical). Nothing rotates. Nothing changes length at the 
touch of a button. Birds who fly through my near-field live to tell their young.

Worse, I'm at the mercy of my electrically noisy neighbors.

Fortunately, I have a friend who lives 800 miles north of my QTH. He has huge 
directive antennas on a massive tower, not to mention an unbelievably low noise 
floor. I've been envious of his riparian RF ecosystem for years, mine being a 
desert in comparison.

Now, using K4 Remote, I can virtually operate his station whenever he (or 
someone else) isn't using it. And since I'm controlling his K4 with my own, 
there's no difference in the UI or feature set. I've still got three 400-count 
optical encoders for VFO A, B, and RIT/XIT; QSK CW with AFX stereo; all the 
same computer and software interfaces, and his high-res panadapter on my LCD 
and HDMI monitor.

(It's not just the next best thing to being there. It *is* being there.)

Once he installed the new beta release, I kicked off a new effort: 1-watt CW 
DXCC. With his antennas, it shouldn't take long. 

For example, the other day I was tuning around 20 meters locally (i.e., using 
my own antenna) and heard only a few EU stations, peaking around S5. Three 
seconds later I was using my friend's station -- the band was now wall-to-wall 
S9+ DX. I dialed his radio down to 1 Watt and immediately picked up a few new 
ones.

While many K4 owners will be using Remote with KPA1500s, chasing top spots in 
contests and adding to their 300+ country totals, some of us will be nibbling 
at the fringes, like so many cleaner wrasses on a great white. I hope to hear 
these stories, as well.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



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[Elecraft] Using the k3 with WITHSJTX?

[Justin Mann via Elecraft]

Folks,
i'm trying to setup my K3 with WSJTX on my mac. I've confirmed that the rs-232 
is setup for USB the k-3 utility talks to the radio but I seem to be getting a 
hamlib error. I'm using cat control, and trying to use the USB port to control 
everything. are there additional settings I need to take into account? 
Also, after connecting the usb cable I do notice that the radio wants to go 
into data mode as opposed to LSB on 80 meters which is where I frequently 
operate. Is there a way to get the radio out of it's data modes and still leave 
the usb cable connected? 
Sent from my iPhone
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