[Elecraft] ECN

2024-04-03 Thread Ray Albers
20 years ago, or thereabouts, when I lived in Northern VA I was a pretty
regular checkin on the Elecraft CW Net with my little KX-1. Amazingly, it
did quite well.

Over the Easter weekend I was once again in NOVA (visiting at my son's
house) and, ever the eternal optimist, I decided to see what I could hear
with my KX-3 and the AX-1 whip (yeah I know, dream on).

Hear K4JPN rock solid. Faint noises from others and the timing suggests
that some of what I heard was most likely Kevin but I couldn't decode
anything.

No surprise, right?  Just thought I'd mention it anyway.   Maybe some day.

73
Ray K2HYD
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[Elecraft] [K3] Sub receiver intermittant failures

2020-06-10 Thread Ray Albers
I bought my K3 used. It's now a bit over six years old (S/N 8240). The
seller kindly included the manual, original invoice, a repair invoice and
even the Fred Cady book. The K3 was factory assembled, with a
factory-installed KRX3 subreceiver and the BNC auxiliary antenna connection.

If I had bought a new K3 or K3S I probably would not have bothered getting
the subreceiver, but since I have it, I figured I may as well put it to
some use. I don't chase DX but the notion of experimenting with diversity
reception interested me. So I threw a chunk of wire over the roof and
connected it to the BNC input. Admittedly not a really good diversity
antenna (much too close to the main antenna, for one thing) but OK to play
with.  When I found that the Carrier Operated Relay was operating as I sent
CW, in order to protect the sub-receiver, I stopped until I could get and
install an Array Solutions Receiver Front End Protector.

So I had many months of fun and even found that at times there was enough
diversity between the antennas to help with reception in the face of fast
QSB. And then suddenly the sub started failing.

 I check it when turning the radio on, and often the sub is working but
then after a while it stops. It doesn't seem to be correlated to
transmitting, i.e., it may stop after I've been sending but not always and
never right away. There has even been a time or two when it didn't work
initially but then came back to life after a while. Often it will work on
20 and up but not on 80, 40, and 30.

I've opened the radio, taken the cover off the sub, and poked, wiggled and
re-seated everything I could get my hands on. I've even tried this poking
while the radio was powered up and the sub was quiet, to see if any poking
could bring it to life. Nada.

I suppose at this point the "right" thing to do would be to send the radio
to Elecraft and I may do that at some distant future point, but right now I
feel that I don't want the sub badly enough to warrant the expense and time.

Of course if meanwhile anyone has a miracle cure to suggest, that'd be
great!

Thanks for listening.

73
Ray K2HYD
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Re: [Elecraft] About my capacitor failure (etc.) issue:

2020-04-24 Thread Ray Albers
This thread started as my description of the failure of my Astron RS-20A
power supply, caused by a bad electrolytic capacitor on the regulator
circuit board. Several hams posted advice that a 20Amp supply was really
too small for a K3/100, especially if running full power. This led me to
order an Astron RS-35 supply.

Chris Hoover, AI6KG, posted the below advice, warning about possible under-
engineered rectifier diode arrangement in the RS-35A.

Today the big brown truck delivered my RS-35M-AP  (the M and AP signify it
has meters and Anderson Power Poles on the front panel).  Chris speculated
that Astron may have made changes more recently. So the first thing I did
was to open the case to check out the rectifier arrangement.  Here's what I
found:

My unit bears Serial Number 2019110051.  I am speculating that the leading
digits 2019 signifies 2019 manufacture.  Interestingly, the schematic that
shipped with the unit says Rev.1, April 2020.  The schematic shows two
bridge rectifiers, DB3501. Two diodes are used from each bridge, and sure
enough the diodes are paralleled.  The DB3501 is spec'd at 35A, so that
seems to be an improvement from the 25A diodes Chris mentioned.  That's
what's in the schematic. Inside the power supply, there are indeed  two
rectifier packages bolted to the floor, with heavy (maybe 14ga) solid wires
connecting terminals in parallel. I'm unable to confirm what the rating of
these diode packages is. They are not labeled DB3501. Instead, they say
"Astron 5001," and one of them also bears some Chinese characters. So
custom made for Astron?

Well, I have ordered a 50Amp rated diode package, but  am undecided if I
will replace the diodes in the supply.  35 Amp rated diode bridges is an
upgrade from the 25 diode bridges that Chris mentioned finding. It does
puzzle me why, with 50A (and better) diodes being so cheap, would Astron do
it this way?  I can only think of two reasons:  1) We think having two
packages bolted to the case will make for better heat dissipation of the
total heat generated at max current and 2), the ever present, "because
we've always done it this way!"

Finally, I'll mention that, like my old RS-20A, I found the negative
terminal bonded to the case. I consider this bad practice so I removed that
bond.

73 to all
Ray K2HYD


On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 6:07 PM Christopher Hoover 
wrote:

> You might want to replace the bridge rectifier in that new 35A power
> supply.
>
> Yep, right out of the box.
>
> At some point, Astron started shipping RS-35A's with a 25A bridge
> rectifier.   They paralleled two out of four of the 25A diodes twice over
> to make, supposedly, a pair of 50A diodes for center-tapped full-wave
> rectification.  That's not good engineering practice as the diodes in each
> pair will not share current equally because of differences in Vf and
> tempco. Once one blow, the other will blow shortly after.
>
> After I fixed my own RS-35A with this problem, I've helped several other
> hams fix this same problem in theirs.  Not a random sample, as this is just
> folks on my local machine and in local clubs.
>
> You can get a 50A bridge in the same package for under $3.
>
> Perhaps Astron has fixed the problem since ....
>
> 73 de AI6KG  -ch
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 10:28 AM Ray Albers  wrote:
>
>> Many to all who posted/responded to my recent post about an electrolytic
>> capacitor failure in my power supply.  Lots of very interesting reading
>> about peoples' industry experiences - thank you!
>>
>> Several have pointed out that using a 20A supply with my K3/100 is pushing
>> close to (or over!) the limit.  Even though I am measuring just 16A at the
>> power level I'm running (and not running anything but the K3 on this
>> supply) I agree that I'm skirting the edges. So even though I've been
>> getting away with it for a long time, this morning I ordered a 35A supply.
>> I'll probably sleep better.
>>
>> 73
>> Ray K2HYD
>>
>> <
>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon
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[Elecraft] About my capacitor failure (etc.) issue:

2020-04-16 Thread Ray Albers
Many to all who posted/responded to my recent post about an electrolytic
capacitor failure in my power supply.  Lots of very interesting reading
about peoples' industry experiences - thank you!

Several have pointed out that using a 20A supply with my K3/100 is pushing
close to (or over!) the limit.  Even though I am measuring just 16A at the
power level I'm running (and not running anything but the K3 on this
supply) I agree that I'm skirting the edges. So even though I've been
getting away with it for a long time, this morning I ordered a 35A supply.
I'll probably sleep better.

73
Ray K2HYD


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[Elecraft] Electrolytic Capacitor failure

2020-04-15 Thread Ray Albers
I could use some knowledge and/or opinions on this subject (Radio/Elecraft
related only because it deals with a power supply that powers a K3!)

The other day I was about to initiate a call, and as soon as I touched the
"dah" paddle the K3 instantly shut off.  The cause was that the power
supply voltage dropped too low when the radio demanded more current.

The power supply is an Astron RS-20A, a big hulking linear supply that I
really like. Huge heavy transformer and two series-pass transistors mounted
on big heat sinks - thus, quiet acoustically (no cooling fan) and
electrically (no RF hash from switching). I have two of these - one that I
bought  for my new radio when I got back into ham radio after a long
absence and the other because I was at a hamfest where someone had a pile
of them that he was selling for only $20 each - who could resist?  So I
trotted out the spare supply and got back on the air. Now to troubleshoot
the bad supply.

I had trouble with this one about five years ago. The output transistors
are plugged into sockets, and on one socket the contacts for the emitter
pin had gotten loose, and there was a vicious spiral of heat causing more
resistance causing more heat until eventually it actually melted the
transistor pin and left a black char on the socket. When I replaced the
socket that time, I decided to solder the emitter pins on both transistors.

It took me a long time to find the problem this time. Various tests told me
the transformer, the full-wave rectifier diodes and the pass transistors
were fine.  Finally - with some help from hints in a great article about
Astron supplies on repeaterbuilder dot com - I figured out that the supply
voltage to the regulator board was too low, so there was not enough "oomph"
available to drive the output transistors when high current was demanded.

 This supply voltage comes from a center tapped transformer secondary
feeding two small diodes (both of which checked OK) to a 1000uF 35 V
electrolytic. Turns out the capacitor was bad. It's a typical aluminum case
with blue plastic covering (which I assume to be heat-shrink plastic
because of the way it is completely molded around the capacitor.)
Replacing it brought the supply voltage up to spec, and now everything
works fine.

But I was surprised about the capacitor failure. Absolutely no visible
signs of anything wrong - no bulging, leaking, etc. And the soldering to
the PC board is perfect.  So here's my question for the group:  What do we
know about electrolytic capacitor failures?  I know that anyone restoring
an old ham transmitter or receiver or BC receiver almost always has to
re-cap it, because the ancient electrolytics, which are usually wet
electrolytics in chassis-mounted cans, will have gone bad. But this is the
first time I've ever had a failure of the more modern type electrolytics. A
quick search of capacitor failure on Google shocked me when I read claims
in several places that these capacitors are only expected to have a two to
five year life!! Can that be?  I know I've got lots of radio gear that's
way older than that and still working fine. To do this repair, I replaced a
capacitor that might only be 5 years old with one that is probably twenty
years old!

Words of wisdom and enlightenment would be most welcome!

73
Ray K2HYD
(K3 #8240, KX-3 #6827)
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[Elecraft] [K3] Relay click - SOLVED.....

2019-11-07 Thread Ray Albers
….thanks to comments and suggestions from K9ZTV and W2CS.

My K3 has the Sub Receiver installed, and I have been playing around with
diversity reception, using a random wire connected to the sub-receiver
antenna input BNC connector.  Apparently the carrier operated relay that
protects the receiver from overload is being triggered by lots of RF coming
into that random wire. When I disconnect the receive antenna, no more
clicking. Now that I know what it is, I'll just ignore it. Or maybe someday
I'll rig a manual T-R switch arrangement to disconnect the sub receiver
antenna except when actually using it.

Thanks, gents!

73
Ray K2HYD
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[Elecraft] [K3] - relay clicking on sending CW

2019-11-06 Thread Ray Albers
I using a used K3 recently acquired: S/N 8240. I notice that when I send
CW, whether in full or semi QSK mode, there is a relay click upon the first
key closure - just for the first character, e.g., if I send CQ  CQ  CQ, the
relay clicks on each C only.

I thought the K3 uses diode T-R switching so I'm surprised that I hear a
relay operating.  Can anyone enlighten me as to what's going on?

(probably needless to say, everything is working great and I have no
problems - other than my curiosity!)

73
Ray K2HYD
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[Elecraft] [K3] Solved! (Sub receiver dead on 40m)

2019-10-02 Thread Ray Albers
Thanks to Steve WB6RSE and other commenters.  BSET controls where Sub
Receiver input goes, and it IS  settable per band.

All OK now.

73
Ray K2HYD
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[Elecraft] [K3] SUB Rx dead on 40m

2019-10-02 Thread Ray Albers
My K3 (used, recently acquired) has the KRX3 sub receiver and the KXV3
separate antenna input installed.  I've put up a wire antenna for
receiving, to try diversity reception.  Works great except on 40m, where I
hear no signal on the SUB receiver, not even very much white noise.

Works fine on  all other bands.  And on 40 the SUB hears nothing whether
connected to the BNC connector or the main antenna.

I've been thru the Main and Config menus to see if I've missed something
but can't find anything amiss. In any case, I don't think any of the
relevant menu settings are band-specific: In other words, if I set KRX3 Ant
= bnc once, I believe that holds for all bands.

Any ideas &/or suggestions would be much appreciated!

73
Ray K2HYD
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Steppir interfacing

2019-08-15 Thread Ray Albers
Joe,  you're right of course - and thank you. I have no clue why I typed
DTR!  Google sources did indeed say RXD (received data, pin 2) and that is
in fact how I wired the cable.  I guess I was looking at my hand drawn
schematic notes and my eyes got a little dyslexic.

Also, thanks to you and others for mentioning that pins 7 and 9 need to be
shorted (as shown in the schematic you sent).  I did that, and - voila!

Everything's working now - SteppIR, MixW, N1MM+.  (the latter programs one
at a time, or course).

Thanks, everyone.

73
Ray K2HYD

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 10:44 PM Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:

>
> > I made up a Y cable to interconnect K3, SteppIR controller and
> > computer. Lots of Googling told me that the connections to SteppIR
> > controller should be only DTR and Gnd, so I made sure that was how it
> > was wired.
> Your Google "sources" are nonsense.  The direct version of this e-mail
> includes the schematic for the *STEPPIR* Y cable.
>
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2019-08-14 8:47 PM, Ray Albers wrote:
> > So a couple of days ago I posted tale of woe, trying to get my newly
> > acquired K3 to work with MixW - well, thanks to a few off line e-mails
> and
> > some stumbling around, I got that working. Ditto, got N1MM+ working
> great.
> >
> > Next - how to get the K3 to play with my SteppIR vertical antenna
> > controller. Worked fine with my ICOM 746PRO, where I had both MixW and
> > SteppIR autotracking working fine with the radio.
> >
> > So:  My computer is a Windows XP thing that I bought specifically because
> > it has an actual RS232 (9 pin) serial interface, so no need to struggle
> > with a serial to USB adapter.  I made up a Y cable to interconnect K3,
> > SteppIR controller and computer. Lots of Googling told me that the
> > connections to SteppIR controller should be only DTR and Gnd, so I made
> > sure that was how it was wired. Other posts point out that the CONFIG
> > AutoInf should be set to Auto1 (one post said it should be set to Norm,
> so
> > I tried it both ways). I even tried setting K3, SteppIR and computer to a
> > slower data rate (9600) in case the 38k rate was too fast. No joy. Did
> the
> > obvious newbie stuff like turning things on and off, plugging and
> > unplugging cables - still NG.
> >
> > As I said, my logging program and N1MM are working just fine (one at a
> > time, of course), and I could live without having the SteppIR do
> > autotracking as I change bands/frequencies, but dagnabbit!!! it's the
> > principle of the thing!  I ought to be able to have everything working.
> >
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> >
> > 73
> > Ray K2HYD
>
>
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[Elecraft] K3 - Steppir interfacing

2019-08-14 Thread Ray Albers
So a couple of days ago I posted tale of woe, trying to get my newly
acquired K3 to work with MixW - well, thanks to a few off line e-mails and
some stumbling around, I got that working. Ditto, got N1MM+ working great.

Next - how to get the K3 to play with my SteppIR vertical antenna
controller. Worked fine with my ICOM 746PRO, where I had both MixW and
SteppIR autotracking working fine with the radio.

So:  My computer is a Windows XP thing that I bought specifically because
it has an actual RS232 (9 pin) serial interface, so no need to struggle
with a serial to USB adapter.  I made up a Y cable to interconnect K3,
SteppIR controller and computer. Lots of Googling told me that the
connections to SteppIR controller should be only DTR and Gnd, so I made
sure that was how it was wired. Other posts point out that the CONFIG
AutoInf should be set to Auto1 (one post said it should be set to Norm, so
I tried it both ways). I even tried setting K3, SteppIR and computer to a
slower data rate (9600) in case the 38k rate was too fast. No joy. Did the
obvious newbie stuff like turning things on and off, plugging and
unplugging cables - still NG.

As I said, my logging program and N1MM are working just fine (one at a
time, of course), and I could live without having the SteppIR do
autotracking as I change bands/frequencies, but dagnabbit!!! it's the
principle of the thing!  I ought to be able to have everything working.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

73
Ray K2HYD
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - MixW interfacing

2019-08-13 Thread Ray Albers
Thanks, Jim

Yes - and after posting my request, I fiddled around a bit more I actually
stumbled into getting it work with the plain old serial interface.  I've
written down the settings that seem to work for me:

Kenwood
Elecraft K2
Com1  38400
PTT Via CAT Command
AFSK in place of FSK
Data 8 bits
Parity None
Stop bits 1
RTS Always ON
DTR Always ON

Now that it's working I won't touch a thing!!

73
Ray


On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 8:02 PM Jim Rhodes  wrote:

> I haven't used MixW in years, but have you set the data rate to 38,400
> baud and 8 data bits, 1 stop bit?
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 6:50 PM Ray Albers  wrote:
>
>> So after having built a KX1 15 yrs ago, and 5 yrs ago acquiring a KX-3,
>> I've finally gotten a [used] K3.
>>
>> I use MixW for logging (I no longer use it for digital modes, and haven't
>> upgraded it for years). I had interfaced my old ICOM 746PRO  and it worked
>> perfectly, entering the frequency into the log.  Now I can't get the K3 to
>> do it.
>>
>> I'm using a Dell laptop running Windows XP. I've tried interfacing radio
>> and computer with a serial cable (yes, the old laptop actually has a
>> serial
>> interface) and also with a serial to USB converter, with no joy.
>>
>> A bit of Googling told me that folks have gotten the interface to work by
>> selecting Kenwood as the radio (in MixW) and then selecting Elecraft K2 as
>> the model. Still no luck. The latest is that in the Freq column, MixW
>> displays
>> -13677 and that doesn't change when I turn the big knob on the K3.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>> 73
>> Ray K2HYD
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>
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[Elecraft] K3 - MixW interfacing

2019-08-13 Thread Ray Albers
So after having built a KX1 15 yrs ago, and 5 yrs ago acquiring a KX-3,
I've finally gotten a [used] K3.

I use MixW for logging (I no longer use it for digital modes, and haven't
upgraded it for years). I had interfaced my old ICOM 746PRO  and it worked
perfectly, entering the frequency into the log.  Now I can't get the K3 to
do it.

I'm using a Dell laptop running Windows XP. I've tried interfacing radio
and computer with a serial cable (yes, the old laptop actually has a serial
interface) and also with a serial to USB converter, with no joy.

A bit of Googling told me that folks have gotten the interface to work by
selecting Kenwood as the radio (in MixW) and then selecting Elecraft K2 as
the model. Still no luck. The latest is that in the Freq column, MixW
displays
-13677 and that doesn't change when I turn the big knob on the K3.

Any suggestions?
73
Ray K2HYD
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Re: [Elecraft] Slightly Unbalanced dipole?

2019-01-13 Thread Ray Albers
A friend once told me, "Almost none of us has a balanced dipole."

What he meant is, few of us are lucky enough to be able to put a dipole
high up and completely in the clear - most of us have to put it up where we
can, and one side will be closer to houses, trees, gutters, chain link
fences. than the other.

Probably true!

73
Ray K2HYD
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[Elecraft] KX-1 switches - anyone else having problems?

2005-03-29 Thread Ray Albers
While operating from BVI the little push-button Band/Speed switch on my KX-1 
started acting flaky and would require several presses to function (and of 
course since many functions are invoked by pressing two swtiches at once, 
operation was very frustrating). I almost didn't make the 20 CW net cuz I had 
so much trouble switching bands!

Anyway, I sent e-mail to Elecraft on Thursday and the replacement switch came 
in Monday's mail - great service!!

But this is the second such switch that has failed on me (the other one was in 
the Menu/Edit position). Omron B3F is the marking on the switch. 

Has anyone else had troubles with these switches? I don't know if the K1 and/or 
K2 use same switches. Or, am I doing something wrong, e.g., being too 
heavy-handed pressing the switches (or changing bands too often ;-) ?) 

73 

Ray K2HYD  (KX-1 # 608).
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[Elecraft] 20 m net - belated comment

2005-03-23 Thread Ray Albers
I tried to post a msg from BVI  on Monday but it doesn't seem to have 
made it.


What a thrill to have been heard on the ECN 20M net! And congrats to Tom 
for pulling my puny signal out of the noise. For the past week, until 
this morning, I was operating as VP2V/K2HYD on Torotla, BVI with my KX-1 
and a 24 ft piece of wire running from the hotel room patio to a nearby 
palm tree (BTW, a local came by and pulled coconuts out of the tree - I 
begged him not to pull down my antenna in the process. Not only did he 
not pull down the antenna, but he cut up one of the coconuts and gave it 
to me to drink the milk - delicious, even tho I was not able to follow 
his admonition to add rum to it before drinking.)


I copied Kevin at about 70%, K1EV at about the same, and Tom, N0SS was 
booming in. Sorry to say other stations were detectable but not 
copyable. My trusty 12V gel-cell battery failed on Saturday and would 
not take a charge, so I was on the internal alkaline AA cells ($3.85 for 
pack of two at the local store!) and running about 1.2 W.  Got good 
results for the week, tho - operated mostly on 20 in the afternoons 
(mornings were spent scuba diving) and had about two dozen contacts - 
including Spain, France and Germany as well as some rag chews into FL.


Hope to do better next sunday with my windom from home!

73

Ray K2HYD


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[Elecraft] hamfest this weekend

2005-03-10 Thread Ray Albers

Lisa posted a list of March and April hamfests but missed at least one:

This weekend - Sunday March 13 - the Vienna (VA) Wireless Society 
Winterfest at the Annandale
Campus of Northern Virginia Community College - 8333 Little River 
Turnpike, Annandale VA


Tailgate and indoor - admission $6.  VE exam session Saturday, same 
location.  Talk-in on 146.91 (-).


More info at http://www.viennawireless.org/winterfest.php

73

Ray K2HYD


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[Elecraft] 20M net

2005-03-07 Thread Ray Albers
Boy, Kevin, you're right about conditions. The only stations I heard 
were you (and you dissappeared for a while from about 00:20 to 00:30), 
Tom N0SS (barely), N6JW (but so weakly I copied him as N6JA !) and 
W7WEL, who was the only strong station.


Good thing I had a fully charged gel-cell powering the KX-1!!

73 to all

Ray K2HYD

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[Elecraft] Re: KX1 internal battery

2005-01-23 Thread Ray Albers

J-F, VA2VYZ, wrote,

snip


Just to be sure May I leave my standard Alkaline AA batteries 
inside de
   KX1 while using external DC supply ???

snip

Oui! No problem. Please look at D2 and D3 in the upper right corner of the schematic - these shottky diodes (low voltage drop) are wired so that whichever supply (internal battery or external supply) has the higher volage will power the KX-1, and the lower voltage supply will be ignored. 


73
Ray K2HYD



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[Elecraft] home brew ladder line hint.

2004-11-28 Thread Ray Albers

Our fearless NCS, Kevin, wrote:

   I wandered into Home Depot this evening and
   purchased a bit of 14 guage wire. I will try to get a loop up for 160
   which should tune quite nicely for the higher bands. Now to get some
   ladder line from HRO this coming week and get it hooked up.

This prompts me to offer a hint for home-brewing ladder line from stuff readily 
available at Homely Depot - nice project for a rainy day.

First, buy a spool of 18 ga stranded copper wire.  When I bought mine about 
year and a half ago it was $14 for a 500 ft spool (given inflation, your 
results may vary), enough for mucho ladder lines, attic loop antennae, etc 
(it's a bit flimsy for outdoor dipoles under tension, but great for ladder line 
or attic antennas.

Next, buy some packs of electrical cable staples - these come in a variety of 
sizes (you want the ones designed to hold 3/4 inch cable. They consist of a 
plastic saddle that goes over the cable, plus two nails in holes that are about 
7/8 inch apart. The nails are easily pulled out with pliers (and as a side 
bonus you will end up with a good supply of little nails for hanging pictures 
or whatever) and the resulting hole is just right for easily threading the 18 
ga wire thru.

If you don't already have a hot-melt glue gun, buy one of these, too, and in 
any case buy some glue sticks to fuel it with.

Thread the 18 ga wire thru the holes in the staple saddles, give a little 
squirt with the hot-melt glue to hold it, and voila, you have your ladder line. 
It's what I'm using on my windom and has held up very well.

Credit goes to Mike K3MT for introducing this method to me. 


73
Ray K2HYD




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[Elecraft] Re: 20 M net- propagation

2004-11-22 Thread Ray Albers
My windom antenna (half wave on 40) must have a major lobe that is aimed 
right at Kevin's QTH, with just the right takeoff angle to hit my own 
personal electron cloud in the F layer.. Kevin, you were booming in here 
last night, and you say you heard me well, but I did not hear a single 
other station. There were maybe three signals that I could barely detect 
(but at or below the noise) but not well enough to copy. At about :20 
after even Kevin faded away.


73
Ray K2HYD

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