Re: [Elecraft] Common K3 failure modes???
Realistically, a manufacturer can only rely on the first category -- readily available parts. Production scheduling, staffing, sales, distribution all require a predictable, steady, stable supply of ALL components. Microprocessor, microcontroller, and ASIC parts are especially sensitive because, to remain competitive in their markets, their manufacturers must keep pace with technology, and providing a stable supply of older, superceded parts is almost always a non-starter. The US Air Force monitors the availability of a myriad of parts for an aircraft and the requirements for them. As parts will become unavailable, they will often contract for a "lifetime buy" to support the aircraft until its retirement from the fleet, which might be decades in the future. This works because the USAF has the financial resources for the purchase and the space to warehouse all those items and the capability to distribute them. A lifetime buy for K3 parts is out of the question for Elecraft. My K3 is serial #642. Elecraft has upgraded it twice, and I've purchased all of the modular units I will need ... plus a couple I find I don't need. [:=) It is wholly unreasonable for me to expect that Elecraft will be able to continue upgrades in perpetuity. I was told it was modular when I bought it, it turned out it was, it has met my needs and expectations and still does. I've been licensed for 70 years this summer. If it finally fails or fails to meet my needs, I will retire it and get a new one. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW #142 Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County Geert Jan de Groot wrote on 6/27/2022 2:24 PM: On 27/06/2022 20:39, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: Four categories: > I didn't want to start a flame fest, but I was trying to find what mods one should do as a preventive measure. Buying the input-diodes that fail on very strong input signals (discussed on the list) is one thing. Protecting the LPA amplifier (the extra diodes) is a good and simple investment too - took me all of 10 minutes to install them. Comments about the 8V regulator - I bookmarked these messages, assuming that an 7808 voltage regulator should be obtainable. Thanks for the other comments - I think my radios are now in a reasonable shape against known mishaps. Several other mods (like "gold pins") have been published and should be considered known. Scarcity is another issue, and it's big. Elecraft often uses Microchip controllers in their radios (I don't know about the K4. but for older models this is true). I have been trying to buy various Microchip processors for other projects and for many, stock has completely dried up with www.microchipdirect.com quoting availability end of 2023 for many popular devices. I don't know if Elecraft has had sufficient parts stock for their production, but it is likely that redesigns would be needed otherwise (Wayne has commented on this happening on the K4 a few times). I wonder if the "last run of K3 modules" is also affected by this, explaining the long lead time on these modules. Over the years there has been a mix of modifications, partially already solved in new production runs, etc. For instance, recently learned about the "hardware AGC" mod that I didn't know about - when I opened up my radio I found that the "modification" had been fixed in a later RF board revision and hence my radio already had this modification. In that regard, I've suggested that Elecraft gives each K4 hardware modification a number, and to put a sticker inside the radio: "mod 01, 02, 03, 05 done" so one doesn't need to investigate if a mod applies to a certain radio revision. I have not seen any hardware mods for K4 yet, so either they aren't happening (lucky!) or this is handled some other way. But, if you buy a radio second-hand, a sticker structurally showing what mods have been "done" would have been very nice. Geert Jan -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Common K3 failure modes???
On 27/06/2022 20:39, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: Four categories: > I didn't want to start a flame fest, but I was trying to find what mods one should do as a preventive measure. Buying the input-diodes that fail on very strong input signals (discussed on the list) is one thing. Protecting the LPA amplifier (the extra diodes) is a good and simple investment too - took me all of 10 minutes to install them. Comments about the 8V regulator - I bookmarked these messages, assuming that an 7808 voltage regulator should be obtainable. Thanks for the other comments - I think my radios are now in a reasonable shape against known mishaps. Several other mods (like "gold pins") have been published and should be considered known. Scarcity is another issue, and it's big. Elecraft often uses Microchip controllers in their radios (I don't know about the K4. but for older models this is true). I have been trying to buy various Microchip processors for other projects and for many, stock has completely dried up with www.microchipdirect.com quoting availability end of 2023 for many popular devices. I don't know if Elecraft has had sufficient parts stock for their production, but it is likely that redesigns would be needed otherwise (Wayne has commented on this happening on the K4 a few times). I wonder if the "last run of K3 modules" is also affected by this, explaining the long lead time on these modules. Over the years there has been a mix of modifications, partially already solved in new production runs, etc. For instance, recently learned about the "hardware AGC" mod that I didn't know about - when I opened up my radio I found that the "modification" had been fixed in a later RF board revision and hence my radio already had this modification. In that regard, I've suggested that Elecraft gives each K4 hardware modification a number, and to put a sticker inside the radio: "mod 01, 02, 03, 05 done" so one doesn't need to investigate if a mod applies to a certain radio revision. I have not seen any hardware mods for K4 yet, so either they aren't happening (lucky!) or this is handled some other way. But, if you buy a radio second-hand, a sticker structurally showing what mods have been "done" would have been very nice. Geert Jan __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Common K3 failure modes???
Four categories: 1. Readily available 2. Difficult to obtain in a timely enough manner for manufacturing/sales 3. Obsolete but marginally available from some sources [see octal-base vacuum tube] 4. Unobtanium 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County David Gilbert wrote on 6/26/2022 3:26 PM: Availability of components falls into two categories: 1. readily available 2. difficult to get in a timely fashion 3. obsolete -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Common K3 failure modes???
Availability of components falls into two categories: 1. readily available 2. difficult to get in a timely fashion 3. obsolete Elecraft discontinued products that fell into all three categories ... not only the third. Most of what they no longer sell is because they made a decision they weren't forced to make due to external considerations. They simply elected to focus on the K4 to the exclusion of previous models. For me, that falls outside of the commitments they made when I bought my K3 with it's supposedly modular nature that according to their sales pitch at the time would allow the availability of retrofitted (potentially upgraded) subassemblies even in the face of component obsolescence. They did exactly that with the new synths while they still had the K3s ... they just completely jumped ship once they came out with the K4. I don't have my head in the sand ... I just apparently have a better memory than you and unlike you I don't have friends working at Elecraft to color my judgement. Dave AB7E On 6/26/2022 1:13 PM, Jim Brown wrote: On 6/22/2022 10:35 AM, David Gilbert wrote: Some people have suggested buying a complete spare rig for parts. I think that's ridiculous. If I'm going to put out that much money for contingency purposes I'll buy a new rig from a company that didn't put me in that situation. Dave, You are being unreasonably hard on Elecraft. They are a small, privately held, US company. If you are unaware of supply chain issues widespread across all industries, especially electronics, you have your head firmly buried in the sand. A Kenwood digital talkie I bought a couple of years ago lasted slightly more than a year. Kenwood sent me to a third party repair company. Have you investigated the history of ICOM or Yaesu repairing their radios? I'm quoting part of Wayne's response to my complaints to him (direct email) about the K4 manual. > Our tech writer took a different job in 2019 right when he was > supposed to start the primary K4 manual. Then the pandemic hit, and we > haven't been able to hire another one (try to hire anyone lately?). So > this fell to me. And this that I've taught my kids -- "The other guy's job always looks easy." 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to ab7e...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Common K3 failure modes???
On 6/22/2022 10:35 AM, David Gilbert wrote: Some people have suggested buying a complete spare rig for parts. I think that's ridiculous. If I'm going to put out that much money for contingency purposes I'll buy a new rig from a company that didn't put me in that situation. Dave, You are being unreasonably hard on Elecraft. They are a small, privately held, US company. If you are unaware of supply chain issues widespread across all industries, especially electronics, you have your head firmly buried in the sand. A Kenwood digital talkie I bought a couple of years ago lasted slightly more than a year. Kenwood sent me to a third party repair company. Have you investigated the history of ICOM or Yaesu repairing their radios? I'm quoting part of Wayne's response to my complaints to him (direct email) about the K4 manual. > Our tech writer took a different job in 2019 right when he was > supposed to start the primary K4 manual. Then the pandemic hit, and we > haven't been able to hire another one (try to hire anyone lately?). So > this fell to me. And this that I've taught my kids -- "The other guy's job always looks easy." 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Common K3 failure modes??? - K3 Ethernet
I wonder how much of a market there would be for a K3 Ethernet I/O board? What would we need on the other end to control the radio though a built in Ethernet line? 73, Mike Cizek W0VTT -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Dr. William J. Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, 22 June, 2022 11:40 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [POSSIBLE SPAM] Common K3 failure modes??? I actually designed and build a K3IO "ethernet" replacement KIO3 board...before the USB version was available. I probably have the only "ethernet" K3 on earth. I may revive that card and replace the ethernet stuff with USB parts so that I can fix some of these K3's laying around. I think there is ZERO chance that Elecraft will release parts/ boards/ gerbers for these parts. There is nothing in it for them to do so and may cause maintenance headaches for them. Some of us can pick up the slack though... -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of David Gilbert Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 10:47 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [POSSIBLE SPAM] Common K3 failure modes??? I have also. The K3IO module is pretty fragile, it seems. Of all the requests I've seen here on the reflector over the years for a replacement item, the K3IO tops the list from my memory ... you can't just buy a replacement from Mouser or Digi-Key like you can the input diodes. And when it goes bad, the K3 becomes essentially useless for contesting. I keep saying that Elecraft should pass on the PC board artwork and component specs (I assume that not all of them are standard devices) for key discontinued modules to someone who might be interested in offering replacement as a 3rd party. It's one of my key gripes with Elecraft that they seem to have no interest in doing so. Dave AB7E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to mgci...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Common K3 failure modes???
I get a PEBKAC error with my K3S all the time... -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Udo Langenohl - DK5YA Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 6:10 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Common K3 failure modes??? > - Diodes at input blown up because of extremely strong signals > near-frequency. Bandfilters may help, as does careful frequency > planning and some antenna distance. (ages ago I used a FT747 which > uses a light bulb as protection - after a heavy radio weekend I had > the lightbulb open and one of the input coils fused!) 73, > > Geert Jan PE1HZG I own 3x K3, one a pure "S" and 2 which are pimped to be a "S" (almost..). Blown diodes at the input (both Main and Sub RX) are the most common failures I'm struggling with for several years with each of my K3's. None of them blown by strong nearby signals but all of them by lightning in summer. I've never been faced by a direct hit - luckily - but a strike say some 500 meters or even a kilometer away will send these diodes to the great Mannitou Of Radio. I have to admit that this is a hilltop QTH and sometimes I forget to disconnect the whole stuff when I'm in a QRL hurry or something similar (XYL hurry i.e..). Fun fact: during our DU-DXpedition on Panglao Isl. we were in the very heart of all thunderstorms years ago when strong linghtning apperaed every evening and night for hours. We had two K3 with us and none of them struggled with dead diodes at the input. Just because I had a box with several spare with me? Only Murphy knows. BTW, several broken knobs along the years too, thats another common failure. 73 Udo, DK5YA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to je...@carolinaheli.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Common K3 failure modes???
MY brother had his K3 fail. He turned it on and everything came up normally, but he could hear no signals or normal band noise on any band but there was slight noise on 80 meters. Turns out the 8 volt regulator had died. That is the one bolted to one of the side panels. If it quits, the synthesizer dies with it. I did write up some notes about the repair. (with pictures and arrows!) Changing out the regulator is simple, but finding out that the regulator is bad took some PC board sleuthing. Dave K1WHS On 6/22/2022 4:29 AM, Geert Jan de Groot wrote: On 22/06/2022 02:50, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: With more K3 radios broken on the bench than working at my contest station (J68HZ) and NO spare modules to work with, I am actually wondering about that. One of the magazines I read, the German Funkamateur magazine, has a story each month about a group doing some DXpedition and nearly every month they report about equipment getting broken during such an event. As these things often use Elecraft, there are reports of K3's failing. But I wonder the failure mode because the stories don't report anything about that. I know of a few failure modes: - Diodes at input blown up because of extremely strong signals near-frequency. Bandfilters may help, as does careful frequency planning and some antenna distance. (ages ago I used a FT747 which uses a light bulb as protection - after a heavy radio weekend I had the lightbulb open and one of the input coils fused!) - PA kickback causing the low-power amplifier transistors to fail - there has been discussion on the list to add transzorb diodes - Encoders for filter settings etc may fail - easy to replace - volume knob was bumped on, causing potmeter broken - just replaced it - Plastic knobs cracked - partially solved by Elecraft warranty, partly solved by buying new ones myself ( with shipping and customs) - Audio amplifier dying because of a short circuit at the output. There is a mod kit for that. I wonder about other failure modes. How does a K3 die at a contest station, or a DXpedition, and what can be done to prevent? What are the failures on the broken radios you are reporting about? 73, Geert Jan PE1HZG __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k1...@metrocast.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Common K3 failure modes???
- Diodes at input blown up because of extremely strong signals near-frequency. Bandfilters may help, as does careful frequency planning and some antenna distance. (ages ago I used a FT747 which uses a light bulb as protection - after a heavy radio weekend I had the lightbulb open and one of the input coils fused!) 73, Geert Jan PE1HZG I own 3x K3, one a pure "S" and 2 which are pimped to be a "S" (almost..). Blown diodes at the input (both Main and Sub RX) are the most common failures I'm struggling with for several years with each of my K3's. None of them blown by strong nearby signals but all of them by lightning in summer. I've never been faced by a direct hit - luckily - but a strike say some 500 meters or even a kilometer away will send these diodes to the great Mannitou Of Radio. I have to admit that this is a hilltop QTH and sometimes I forget to disconnect the whole stuff when I'm in a QRL hurry or something similar (XYL hurry i.e..). Fun fact: during our DU-DXpedition on Panglao Isl. we were in the very heart of all thunderstorms years ago when strong linghtning apperaed every evening and night for hours. We had two K3 with us and none of them struggled with dead diodes at the input. Just because I had a box with several spare with me? Only Murphy knows. BTW, several broken knobs along the years too, thats another common failure. 73 Udo, DK5YA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Common K3 failure modes???
On 22/06/2022 02:50, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: With more K3 radios broken on the bench than working at my contest station (J68HZ) and NO spare modules to work with, I am actually wondering about that. One of the magazines I read, the German Funkamateur magazine, has a story each month about a group doing some DXpedition and nearly every month they report about equipment getting broken during such an event. As these things often use Elecraft, there are reports of K3's failing. But I wonder the failure mode because the stories don't report anything about that. I know of a few failure modes: - Diodes at input blown up because of extremely strong signals near-frequency. Bandfilters may help, as does careful frequency planning and some antenna distance. (ages ago I used a FT747 which uses a light bulb as protection - after a heavy radio weekend I had the lightbulb open and one of the input coils fused!) - PA kickback causing the low-power amplifier transistors to fail - there has been discussion on the list to add transzorb diodes - Encoders for filter settings etc may fail - easy to replace - volume knob was bumped on, causing potmeter broken - just replaced it - Plastic knobs cracked - partially solved by Elecraft warranty, partly solved by buying new ones myself ( with shipping and customs) - Audio amplifier dying because of a short circuit at the output. There is a mod kit for that. I wonder about other failure modes. How does a K3 die at a contest station, or a DXpedition, and what can be done to prevent? What are the failures on the broken radios you are reporting about? 73, Geert Jan PE1HZG __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
