[Elecraft] K4 output on 6m?

[David F. Reed]

I have PWR set to 100, but am seeing ~70 watts on 3 different watt 
meters (K4, KPA1500, and HF-AUTO).


Is this what I should expect, or should I go about re-calibrating Power 
on the K4?


--
Thanks & 73 de Dave, W5SV

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[Elecraft] KpA1500 output

[Richard Goodin via Elecraft]

Hi all,
Had a falt on amp (swr) pushed reset corrected swr and now get no output. Seams 
like reset not working. Any suggestions?

Sent from my iPhone
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[Elecraft] Power output problem K3

[Harald Fritzsche]

Hi Steef, all,

well, intermittend or gone issues are hard to detect :-(

Based on your description, it is most likely that contact issues causes the 
symptoms described.
Or maybe a cold solder joint could cause such issues too.
I am saying that with care and respect, my K3/10 is #5921 and 10y young. Yours 
are older.
There is a certain chance that reliability is starting to degrade (10y is 
already a good age for electronics).

If you narrow down to the cause of the symptom, there is a good chance to 
correct a weak contact or similar topic (could be more than a solder joint  or 
a contact).

If i can help, let me know, if time allows, it will be provided.

stay healthy
vy73
Harald
DD0VS

 original 

Hi Chris and Harald,

I have a few problems with my K3 #1184 and my last problem looks like your 
power problem. A few weeks after last PACC Contest in February my K3 had no 
power output beyond 12 Watts. Tuning the rig and raising the power to 13 Watts 
and higher caused it to draw 18 Amps, independent of the power setting between 
13 and 110 Watts. The KPA3 temp raised fast.

Curious to compare the problem with your K3 problem I warmed up the rig and I 
let it bounce hard on the table and the power was back and could be adjusted as 
usual.

13 years after assembling my K3 there must be loose contacts. In 2010 I had the 
12V ERR problem and I received from Elecraft new IDE connectors for the KPA3.

Since about two years my new KSYN3A 's did not lock when the K3 was cold. After 
half an hour I let the front part of the bottom of the rig bounce on the table 
with the tilt stand folded back. After that the problem was always over. There 
must be some bad connectors and I also had a fluctuating KPA3 temperature which 
caused the cooling fans turning on and off irregularly. The temperature jumped 
up and down between 20 C and 41 C. The bounce on the table also solved this 
problem during the contests.

If you can 't find the error disassembling and reassebbling the K3 might be a 
way to check connector failures.

73s Steef PA2A
K2 K3 KPA500 KAT500


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Re: [Elecraft] Audio output routing confusion

[Richard Ferch]

You don't hear VFOs, you hear receivers.

When the subRX is off, the only receiver you can hear is the main receiver.
The main receiver's frequency is always controlled by VFO A, so with the
subRX off you are always listening on the VFO A frequency (you can press
and hold the REV button to swap VFOs temporarily and listen on the
frequency that was in VFO B instead, but as soon as you release the REV
button the VFOs are restored).

When the subRX is on, you can hear both receivers simultaneously (depending
on the L-MIX-R configuration setting). With the default A-B setting, the
main RX is in the left channel and the subRX is in the right channel. The
subRX's frequency is controlled by VFO B, except when the subRX is in
Diversity mode, at which times the subRX's frequency is the VFO A frequency
the same as the main RX.

Regardless of the state of the subRX, the transmitter's frequency is
controlled by VFO A when SPLIT is off, and by VFO B when SPLIT is on.

73,
Rich VE3KI

nr4c wrote:

I think you can only hear Main Rec VFO A or VFO B. The only way to hear VFO
A and VFO B at the same time is with KRX3 sub-receiver as VFO B.
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio output routing confusion

[Nr4c]

I think you can only hear Main Rec VFO A or VFO B. The only way to hear VFO A 
and VFO B at the same time is with KRX3 sub-receiver as VFO B. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Jul 27, 2020, at 6:32 PM, Jim Rhodes  wrote:
> 
> You need to set the "SPKRS" on the Config menu to "1" in order to hear them
> both at once.
> 
>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 5:27 AM Eric Rosenberg 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> After 6 months off the air, I find myself confused by the K3's audio
>> output choices.
>> 
>> While I'm able to hear the Main A VFO and Sub RX VFO through my one
>> speaker, I can't figure out how to (or if) hear both the Main RX A and B
>> VFOs through that speaker.
>> 
>> Is there a way to configure this, or do I need a second speaker or must
>> I use headphones?
>> 
>> Thanks & 73,
>> 
>> Eric
>> W3DQ
>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Jim K0XU
> j...@rhodesend.net
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio output routing confusion

[Jim Rhodes]

You need to set the "SPKRS" on the Config menu to "1" in order to hear them
both at once.

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 5:27 AM Eric Rosenberg 
wrote:

> After 6 months off the air, I find myself confused by the K3's audio
> output choices.
>
> While I'm able to hear the Main A VFO and Sub RX VFO through my one
> speaker, I can't figure out how to (or if) hear both the Main RX A and B
> VFOs through that speaker.
>
> Is there a way to configure this, or do I need a second speaker or must
> I use headphones?
>
> Thanks & 73,
>
> Eric
> W3DQ
>
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-- 
Jim K0XU
j...@rhodesend.net
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[Elecraft] Audio output routing confusion

[Eric Rosenberg]

After 6 months off the air, I find myself confused by the K3's audio 
output choices.


While I'm able to hear the Main A VFO and Sub RX VFO through my one 
speaker, I can't figure out how to (or if) hear both the Main RX A and B 
VFOs through that speaker.


Is there a way to configure this, or do I need a second speaker or must 
I use headphones?


Thanks & 73,

Eric
W3DQ

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Re: [Elecraft] P3 Output

[Nr4c]

It’s a continuation of the IF from the radio. You can connect an SDR receiver 
there for instance. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On May 19, 2020, at 5:19 AM, "a4...@sy-edm.com"  wrote:
> 
> I see on my P3 that there is an additional BNC output, which is 
> “un-buffered”…. 
> 
> Is there any way I can use this  ? 
> What actually is in this output I/Q only - or RF 
> 
> More curious than anything … 
> 
> Regards
> 
>   Tim
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[Elecraft] P3 Output

[a4...@sy-edm.com]

I see on my P3 that there is an additional BNC output, which is “un-buffered”…. 

Is there any way I can use this  ? 
What actually is in this output I/Q only - or RF 

More curious than anything … 

Regards

   Tim
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power failure.

[Eric Rosenberg]

W3LPL and other mentioned the PA temp and sagging power supply.

I didn't think to check the PA temp  until later (how much later, I don't
know),  If I remember correctly, it was 35C. In both cases, I was operating
in a contest (ARRL 160 and ARRL RTTY RU) with the RF power set to 100w

Sitting in front of the rig now (been powered for 15 or so minutes), the PA
is 26C.What did catch my eye was the voltage and current at the rig: 13.3v
& 1.2a in RX

I then keyed the radio, brought the power to 100w, it's a the voltage went
to 11.8v/17.9a and then shut down. The voltage went up to 13.3v/1.2a but
still no output. PA temp is 31C

I swapped power the Astron power supply for an Alinco DM-330MV switching
supply (1 ft power cable to the radio). I set the power supply so the radio
reads 14.5v. I also turned up the fan up to level 4 (it hadn't gone on
previously).. The radio read 14.5v/1.3A on RX. PA temp 22C, FP temp 30C in
RX

Still no TX output, although the radio went to 14.2v and 2.3a when I first
keyed the radio. It quickly ramps up to ~4.a and stays there until I unkey
it.

Any ideas as to what's going on?

73, Eric W3DQ




On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 9:29 AM Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:

> What was the PA temperature?   And how are the fans set in the CONFIG
> menu.
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 6, 2020, at 12:15 AM, Eric Rosenberg 
> wrote:
> >
> > In the middle of the ARRL 160 contest, my K3 stopped putting out any
> RF. No  explanation that I can think of... all of a sudden, ZERO watts out
> when the radio was keyed, either by software (N1MM+ or WSJT-X) or pressing
> the TUNE button. The TX LED was lit, the meter showed audio, which I could
> hear via the radio MON.
> >
> > I could not get it to come back. I shut it off for a couple of minutes
> and then it came back.
> >
> > Everything seemed fine until this weekend's ARRL RTTY Roundup. After
> being on the air for about 4 hours, once again there no was RF output (the
> meter said "0 watts with two dashed lines above it), The radio keyed (the
> TX LED went on and the meter showed audio which could be heard via the
> radio MON), and the meter said "0 watts with two dashed lines above it.  I
> disconnected everything but the antenna, and still... no change. I did a
> system reset. Again, no change.
> >
> > I quit for he evening and came back in the morning, On a lark, I hooked
> it all back up, and lo and behold, everything worked as if nothing had gone
> wrong.
> >
> > I'm stumped. I've never opened up the radio -- the only time it was
> opened was at Elecraft last year.
> >
> > Any advice is appreciated!
> >
> > 73,
> > Eric W3DQ
> >
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power failure.

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

What was the PA temperature?   And how are the fans set in the CONFIG menu.  

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 6, 2020, at 12:15 AM, Eric Rosenberg  
> wrote:
> 
> In the middle of the ARRL 160 contest, my K3 stopped putting out any RF. No  
> explanation that I can think of... all of a sudden, ZERO watts out when the 
> radio was keyed, either by software (N1MM+ or WSJT-X) or pressing the TUNE 
> button. The TX LED was lit, the meter showed audio, which I could hear via 
> the radio MON.
> 
> I could not get it to come back. I shut it off for a couple of minutes and 
> then it came back.
> 
> Everything seemed fine until this weekend's ARRL RTTY Roundup. After being on 
> the air for about 4 hours, once again there no was RF output (the meter said 
> "0 watts with two dashed lines above it), The radio keyed (the TX LED went on 
> and the meter showed audio which could be heard via the radio MON), and the 
> meter said "0 watts with two dashed lines above it.  I disconnected 
> everything but the antenna, and still... no change. I did a system reset. 
> Again, no change.
> 
> I quit for he evening and came back in the morning, On a lark, I hooked it 
> all back up, and lo and behold, everything worked as if nothing had gone 
> wrong.
> 
> I'm stumped. I've never opened up the radio -- the only time it was opened 
> was at Elecraft last year.
> 
> Any advice is appreciated!
> 
> 73,
> Eric W3DQ
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power failure.

[Clay Autery]

Alternatively, you might (if you feel comfortable doing so) open the 
unit up and inspect it for any foreign debris that may have made its way 
into the case, thus challenging the airflow design/volume/velocity.
The PA is in its own shielded enclosure, and thus relies heavily upon 
the fans to suck air through and out of the PA enclosure and overall 
enclosure).


Additionally, I would encourage you to hook the K3 up to a dummy load 
and check to see if the fans are running properly.  Do they spin at all 
when the unit is sitting at idle (PA somewhere around 36C or so in my 
stack).  Then, set power at 100 W and Press and Hold the XMIT/UNE button 
to engage tuning ops in CW mode.  As the PA warms up, the fans should 
start to spin up as indicated by warm airflow increasing in temperature 
and velocity out of the fans on the rear panel.


_*WARNING:*_  Make sure VFO Display is showing the PA temp in the 
display and WATCH IT CLOSELY  If the fans don't start spinning up 
from slow speed by 40 or 41, tap XMIT and stop the TUNE procedure.  IF 
you forget to tap XMIT, you will put the PA into protection mode at some 
point, and MAY WELL DAMAGE THE PA, et al.


If the fans are not spinning at all, you MAY have dead fans or other 
pwr/signal issues to the fans.
IF the fans don't spin up as PA temp increases, you have issues that I 
am not qualified to help you troubleshoot properly or fix.


73,

__
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(318) 518-1389

On 01/05/20 22:40, n...@zianet.com wrote:

Eric Rosenberg writes:

Everything seemed fine until this weekend's ARRL RTTY Roundup. After 
being on the air for about 4 hours, once again there no was RF output


Eric,
Sounds like an over temperature problem.  Especially if running RTTY 
at near full power.  The high duty cycle of RTTY can cause the PA to 
get very hot.  When it gets too hot, the radio shuts the transmitter 
down for protection until it cools off in 15-30 minutes.  Too much 
audio gain/ALC can cause the same.  Review the tech manual on 
transmitter setup about over driving the K3 or external amplifier.  
Just sounds like you're driving the K3 a bit too hard for prolonged 
periods.


GL es 73, Paul NA5N

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power failure.

[na5n]

Eric Rosenberg writes:

Everything seemed fine until this weekend's ARRL RTTY Roundup. After  
being on the air for about 4 hours, once again there no was RF output


Eric,
Sounds like an over temperature problem.  Especially if running RTTY at  
near full power.  The high duty cycle of RTTY can cause the PA to get very  
hot.  When it gets too hot, the radio shuts the transmitter down for  
protection until it cools off in 15-30 minutes.  Too much audio gain/ALC  
can cause the same.  Review the tech manual on transmitter setup about over  
driving the K3 or external amplifier.  Just sounds like you're driving the  
K3 a bit too hard for prolonged periods.


GL es 73, Paul NA5N
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[Elecraft] K3 output power failure.

[Eric Rosenberg]

In the middle of the ARRL 160 contest, my K3 stopped putting out any RF. 
No  explanation that I can think of... all of a sudden, ZERO watts out 
when the radio was keyed, either by software (N1MM+ or WSJT-X) or 
pressing the TUNE button. The TX LED was lit, the meter showed audio, 
which I could hear via the radio MON.


I could not get it to come back. I shut it off for a couple of minutes 
and then it came back.


Everything seemed fine until this weekend's ARRL RTTY Roundup. After 
being on the air for about 4 hours, once again there no was RF output 
(the meter said "0 watts with two dashed lines above it), The radio 
keyed (the TX LED went on and the meter showed audio which could be 
heard via the radio MON), and the meter said "0 watts with two dashed 
lines above it.  I disconnected everything but the antenna, and still... 
no change. I did a system reset. Again, no change.


I quit for he evening and came back in the morning, On a lark, I hooked 
it all back up, and lo and behold, everything worked as if nothing had 
gone wrong.


I'm stumped. I've never opened up the radio -- the only time it was 
opened was at Elecraft last year.


Any advice is appreciated!

73,
Eric W3DQ

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Re: [Elecraft] KX2 output power drop

[Don Wilhelm]

Pierre,

That may be normal behavior, the power will drop to 5 watts if either 
low voltage occurs or if a high PA temperature condition occurs.


If you are operating digital modes, I suspect that the high PA 
temperature is causing the drop in power.


Check the BAT MIN setting in the KX2 menu.  See page 43 of the manual. 
The proper setting varies depending on the battery type, and the default 
is 10 volts.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/22/2019 6:26 PM, VE2PID wrote:
Hi folks .. A question about the KX2: I saw this on other posts, and 
also experienced it in portable operations: ''The KX2 was able to pump 
out a full 10 watts of power for a little over one hour, then as the 
voltage dropped, it reduced output to 5 watts.''. So it seems to be 
normal, but is it documented somewhere in the KX2 specs?


(FYI, I use an external rechargeable 12V 3000mAh Lithium ion Battery Pack.)


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[Elecraft] KX2 output power drop

[VE2PID]

Hi folks .. A question about the KX2: I saw this on other posts, and 
also experienced it in portable operations: ''The KX2 was able to pump 
out a full 10 watts of power for a little over one hour, then as the 
voltage dropped, it reduced output to 5 watts.''. So it seems to be 
normal, but is it documented somewhere in the KX2 specs?


(FYI, I use an external rechargeable 12V 3000mAh Lithium ion Battery Pack.)

73, de Pierre VE2PID KX2 s/n 1464.
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Re: [Elecraft] No output on CW with K3

[K9ZTV]

He means VOX.

K9ZTV

> On Jul 14, 2019, at 6:20 AM, Nr4c  wrote:
> 
> Make sure BOX is ON on all bands. 
> 
> Make sure not in TEST mode on bands with no CW out. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
> 
> 
>> On Jul 14, 2019, at 4:09 AM, VY1JA  wrote:
>> 
>> The YCCCN Remote OPs group (VY1AAA) uses the K3S at this site (VY1JA) and
>> reported the same problem but only on Six meters.  The K3s is working
>> perfectly on all other bands.
>> It has been confirmed that the CONFIG does not redirect TX output  and tests
>> on TUNE show good output on 6 and low antenna SWR there.  As soon as this
>> unit is switched to CW  on 6 and keyed, there is no output.
>> 
>> Next troubleshooting steps for getting this GG for the RemoteOps?
>> TNX,
>> J., VY1JA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] No output on CW with K3

[Nr4c]

Make sure BOX is ON on all bands. 

Make sure not in TEST mode on bands with no CW out. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Jul 14, 2019, at 4:09 AM, VY1JA  wrote:
> 
> The YCCCN Remote OPs group (VY1AAA) uses the K3S at this site (VY1JA) and
> reported the same problem but only on Six meters.  The K3s is working
> perfectly on all other bands.
> It has been confirmed that the CONFIG does not redirect TX output  and tests
> on TUNE show good output on 6 and low antenna SWR there.  As soon as this
> unit is switched to CW  on 6 and keyed, there is no output.
> 
> Next troubleshooting steps for getting this GG for the RemoteOps?
> TNX,
> J., VY1JA
> 
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [Elecraft] No output on CW with K3

[VY1JA]

The YCCCN Remote OPs group (VY1AAA) uses the K3S at this site (VY1JA) and
reported the same problem but only on Six meters.  The K3s is working
perfectly on all other bands.
It has been confirmed that the CONFIG does not redirect TX output  and tests
on TUNE show good output on 6 and low antenna SWR there.  As soon as this
unit is switched to CW  on 6 and keyed, there is no output.

Next troubleshooting steps for getting this GG for the RemoteOps?
TNX,
J., VY1JA



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[Elecraft] No Output from K3 on Digital Modes - SOLVED

[k2te]

I opened N1MM+ to check operation with RTTY in the hope that if it
worked, its settings may be a clue to what was wrong for the other
soundcard-controlled digital modes.  I initially noticed the RTTY window
would populate what I sent but still no power out.  On a hunch I pushed
the XMIT (PTT) button to force the K3 into transmit and sent a message. 
This time I got power out and heard the RTTY signal in the headphones.  I
then held the VOX side of the BAND button to activate the VOX, selected a
message, and it worked.

I opened WSJT-X, picked a frequency, made sure the VOX is on, and it now
works.  One of the pitfalls of small transceivers with many
multi-function buttons that require specific timing to activate the
different functions is its easy to screw things up.  Apparently I was
manually changing bands while operating WSJF-X and held the button too
long, thus shutting off VOX.  With no warning banner (Do you want to shut
off VOX?) or a momentary flashing of the VOX text on the K3 display to
notify me, I never noticed it was off.

Tnx to those who pitched it with suggestions.  

Lesson learned for digital modes - make sure VOX is on! 

73 de Ed


Sad News For Royal Family
track.volutrk.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5d084bae5d5114bae2296st03vuc
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Re: [Elecraft] Line output

[Richard Lamont]

On 23/05/2019 11:55, G3YHM via Elecraft wrote:

> For some reason my K3 has decided to change the level of the Line out when I 
> adjust the AF Gain control.  Are my fingers in the menu to blame?  How can I 
> return it to normal?

Go to CONFIG:LIN OUT and if it says "=PHONES" then tap 1 to return it to
"nor 010" (or whatever fixed gain value you've set).

73,
Richard G4DYA

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[Elecraft] Line output

[G3YHM via Elecraft]

For some reason my K3 has decided to change the level of the Line out when I 
adjust the AF Gain control.  Are my fingers in the menu to blame?  How can I 
return it to normal?

Regards 


Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] IF Output ?

[Sverre Holm (LA3ZA)]

I use the opportunity to follow up on this thread. The IF output of the K3
and K3S is centered on 8.215 MHz. 

But there is also a second IF at 12 kHz with no output. I wonder if anyone
has made an output for the I- and Q- channels at 12 kHz. It looks fairly
simple to find judging from the schematics.




-
Sverre, LA3ZA

K2 #2198, K3 #3391,
LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com,
LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: 
http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html
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Re: [Elecraft] IF Output ?

[Bob Conder via Elecraft]

Eric, Tnx for quick reply & info.Can't blame my problem on that :-)Bob K4RLC

  From: Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft 
 To: Bob Conder  
Cc: Elecraft list 
 Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 10:55 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] IF Output ?
   
Hi Bob,
The K3 and K3S IF output is on all the time. 

73,
Ericelecraft.com
---Sent from my iPhone 6S
On Apr 17, 2019, at 7:23 PM, Bob Conder via Elecraft  
wrote:


Is there a software setting in the Config menu to activate the IF Output on the 
KXV3?Or, is it always "on" & generating a signal?TIA,Bob K4RLC
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Re: [Elecraft] IF Output ?

[Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft]

Hi Bob,

The K3 and K3S IF output is on all the time. 

73,
Eric
elecraft.com
---
Sent from my iPhone 6S

> On Apr 17, 2019, at 7:23 PM, Bob Conder via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is there a software setting in the Config menu to activate the IF Output on 
> the KXV3?Or, is it always "on" & generating a signal?TIA,Bob K4RLC
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[Elecraft] IF Output ?

[Bob Conder via Elecraft]

Is there a software setting in the Config menu to activate the IF Output on the 
KXV3?Or, is it always "on" & generating a signal?TIA,Bob K4RLC
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Re: [Elecraft] Power output keeps folding back to 5 watts on my KX2

[Nr4c]

Walter. 

While I suspect that voltage requirements for the KX3 are similar to those of 
the KX2, its a KX2 as the device in question. 

And I agree with Don. The underlying issue here is why is the power supply 
voltage so low?  The KX2 (or KX3) shouldn’t draw more than around three Amps 
under full TX power. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 18, 2019, at 5:00 PM, Walter Underwood  wrote:
> 
> Based on the KX3 specifications, it is designed to run at lower power for 
> full-carrier modes.
> 
> From the transmitter specifications on page 54 of the KX3 Owner’s Manual:
> 
> "5 W or less recommended for high-duty-cycle modes (FM, AM, DATA). Power will 
> automatically be reduced if PA temperature or current limits are exceeded.”
> 
> I’d check the KX2 specs for info on that model.
> 
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> 
>> On Mar 18, 2019, at 1:55 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
>> 
>> Based on a presentation by Eric at the West Valley Amateur Radio 
>> Association, Elecraft tends to build their equipment to run at full 
>> advertised power with digital modes. Their model is a RTTY contester calling 
>> CQ with 60% to 70% of the time transmitting. He indicated that the KPA1500 
>> would run for 5 minutes at full output before needing a rest.
>> 
>> I have not had any problems running my K3 at 100W with FT8. Interestingly, 
>> the fans speed up during the receive part of the cycle.
>> 
>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>> 
>>> On 3/18/19 at 1:39 PM, richard.corfi...@gmail.com (Richard Corfield) wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don't Elecraft recommend using lower power for high duty digital modes?
>>> (Though FT8 us 15s bursts so not as high duty as some).
>> 
>> -
>> Bill Frantz| Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is 
>> force; like
>> 408-356-8506   | a fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. 
>> Never for a
>> www.pwpconsult.com | moment should it be left to irresponsible action. Geo 
>> Washington
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Power output keeps folding back to 5 watts on my KX2

[Don Wilhelm]

Tommy,

That is too much voltage drop.  Check all your power connections to be 
sure they are tight.  If the power supply terminals rotate even a little 
bit, open the power supply and tighten the terminals securely.


Since the KX2 power control tries to maintain the set power, if the 
voltage drops, it has to draw more current.  That means your KX2 may be 
exceeding the current limits due to the reduced voltage.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/18/2019 2:47 PM, Tommy wrote:
   Ahhh, O.K., with my 13.2v Astron it's showing 10.3 - 10.8. I guess 
for now with this power supply I'll have to settle for 5 watts. Thank 
you for the quick reply.



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Re: [Elecraft] Power output keeps folding back to 5 watts on my KX2

[Walter Underwood]

Based on the KX3 specifications, it is designed to run at lower power for 
full-carrier modes.

From the transmitter specifications on page 54 of the KX3 Owner’s Manual:

"5 W or less recommended for high-duty-cycle modes (FM, AM, DATA). Power will 
automatically be reduced if PA temperature or current limits are exceeded.”

I’d check the KX2 specs for info on that model.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Mar 18, 2019, at 1:55 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
> 
> Based on a presentation by Eric at the West Valley Amateur Radio Association, 
> Elecraft tends to build their equipment to run at full advertised power with 
> digital modes. Their model is a RTTY contester calling CQ with 60% to 70% of 
> the time transmitting. He indicated that the KPA1500 would run for 5 minutes 
> at full output before needing a rest.
> 
> I have not had any problems running my K3 at 100W with FT8. Interestingly, 
> the fans speed up during the receive part of the cycle.
> 
> 73 Bill AE6JV
> 
> On 3/18/19 at 1:39 PM, richard.corfi...@gmail.com (Richard Corfield) wrote:
> 
>> Don't Elecraft recommend using lower power for high duty digital modes?
>> (Though FT8 us 15s bursts so not as high duty as some).
> 
> -
> Bill Frantz| Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is 
> force; like
> 408-356-8506   | a fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. 
> Never for a
> www.pwpconsult.com | moment should it be left to irresponsible action. Geo 
> Washington
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Power output keeps folding back to 5 watts on my KX2

[Bill Frantz]

Based on a presentation by Eric at the West Valley Amateur Radio 
Association, Elecraft tends to build their equipment to run at 
full advertised power with digital modes. Their model is a RTTY 
contester calling CQ with 60% to 70% of the time transmitting. 
He indicated that the KPA1500 would run for 5 minutes at full 
output before needing a rest.


I have not had any problems running my K3 at 100W with FT8. 
Interestingly, the fans speed up during the receive part of the cycle.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/18/19 at 1:39 PM, richard.corfi...@gmail.com (Richard 
Corfield) wrote:



Don't Elecraft recommend using lower power for high duty digital modes?
(Though FT8 us 15s bursts so not as high duty as some).


-
Bill Frantz| Government is not reason, it is not 
eloquence, it is force; like
408-356-8506   | a fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful 
master. Never for a
www.pwpconsult.com | moment should it be left to irresponsible 
action. Geo Washington


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Re: [Elecraft] Power output keeps folding back to 5 watts on my KX2

[Richard Corfield]

Don't Elecraft recommend using lower power for high duty digital modes?
(Though FT8 us 15s bursts so not as high duty as some).

 - Richard

On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 at 18:46, Tommy  wrote:

>Ahhh, O.K., with my 13.2v Astron it's showing 10.3 - 10.8. I guess
> for now with this power supply I'll have to settle for 5 watts. Thank
> you for the quick reply.
>
> Tom - KB2SMS
>
>
> On 3/18/19 2:36 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
> > Set the display to show the power supply voltage and watch it while you
> transmit. The transmitter requires a voltage over 11 V for more than 5 W.
> >
> > If the voltage is dropping below 11 V, that is the problem.
> >
> > This in the specifications section of the KX3 manual.
> >
> > wunder
> > K6WRU
> > Walter Underwood
> > CM87wj
> > http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> >
> >> On Mar 18, 2019, at 11:33 AM, Tommy  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi folks,
> >>
> >>   I'm running FT8 with a KX2 powered by a power supply. The rig
> keeps folding back from 10-12 watts to 5 every time and it's barely even
> warm.  I'll set it to 12W for instance, it'll transmit fine at that level
> but when done cut back to 5w. I don't transmit often enough for it to get
> hot enough to protect itself. AGC is off. Any ideas? I appreciate any
> feedback.
> >>
> >> 73 de Tom - KB2SMS
> >>
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Re: [Elecraft] Power output keeps folding back to 5 watts on my KX2

[Tommy]

  Ahhh, O.K., with my 13.2v Astron it's showing 10.3 - 10.8. I guess 
for now with this power supply I'll have to settle for 5 watts. Thank 
you for the quick reply.


Tom - KB2SMS


On 3/18/19 2:36 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

Set the display to show the power supply voltage and watch it while you 
transmit. The transmitter requires a voltage over 11 V for more than 5 W.

If the voltage is dropping below 11 V, that is the problem.

This in the specifications section of the KX3 manual.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)


On Mar 18, 2019, at 11:33 AM, Tommy  wrote:

Hi folks,

  I'm running FT8 with a KX2 powered by a power supply. The rig keeps 
folding back from 10-12 watts to 5 every time and it's barely even warm.  I'll 
set it to 12W for instance, it'll transmit fine at that level but when done cut 
back to 5w. I don't transmit often enough for it to get hot enough to protect 
itself. AGC is off. Any ideas? I appreciate any feedback.

73 de Tom - KB2SMS

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Re: [Elecraft] Power output keeps folding back to 5 watts on my KX2

[Walter Underwood]

Set the display to show the power supply voltage and watch it while you 
transmit. The transmitter requires a voltage over 11 V for more than 5 W.

If the voltage is dropping below 11 V, that is the problem.

This in the specifications section of the KX3 manual.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Mar 18, 2019, at 11:33 AM, Tommy  wrote:
> 
>Hi folks,
> 
>  I'm running FT8 with a KX2 powered by a power supply. The rig keeps 
> folding back from 10-12 watts to 5 every time and it's barely even warm.  
> I'll set it to 12W for instance, it'll transmit fine at that level but when 
> done cut back to 5w. I don't transmit often enough for it to get hot enough 
> to protect itself. AGC is off. Any ideas? I appreciate any feedback.
> 
> 73 de Tom - KB2SMS
> 
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[Elecraft] Power output keeps folding back to 5 watts on my KX2

[Tommy]

   Hi folks,

 I'm running FT8 with a KX2 powered by a power supply. The rig 
keeps folding back from 10-12 watts to 5 every time and it's barely even 
warm.  I'll set it to 12W for instance, it'll transmit fine at that 
level but when done cut back to 5w. I don't transmit often enough for it 
to get hot enough to protect itself. AGC is off. Any ideas? I appreciate 
any feedback.


73 de Tom - KB2SMS

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Re: [Elecraft] K3s Output on 6M

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

From page 9 of the manual: "K3S/100 typ.  Suggested max from 51 - 51 
MHz, 85 W,  52 - 54 MHz 70 W. "    There are other specs related to 
K3S/10 and transverter outputs.


Looks like 100 watts is a good number from 50 - 51 MHz.   I see that on 
my radio and I've not checked power above 51 MHz.   The internal tuner 
operates at around 5 to 7 watts output while resolving a match.  Using 
the internal tuner seems to tell me the external devices are not 
operating with a 50 ohm nonreactive load attached.  In that case, being 
voltage sensing devices, the load will affect the power indications.


The point which would concern me most is having 3 different power 
measuring devices which give significantly different values.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 7/10/2018 10:26 PM, Nr4c wrote:

Did you check the specs?  I don’t think it is supposed to put out full 110 
Watts on 10 or 6 meters.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill



On Jul 10, 2018, at 8:03 PM, Gary Smith  wrote:

What is the expected output on 6 meters?

The K3 shows 110W
The P3 watt meter says 73.1W
The LP-100A says 60.1W

When I use the internal tuner it never
breaks into the higher power range, it
only outputs at 7 watts tops.

On all the lower bands it puts out 100
reliably.

Thanks & 73,

Gary
KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] K3s Output on 6M

[Jim - N4ST]

Hm..
My K3S set to 100W says it is putting out 80W on 6M.
An external power meter also reads ~80W.
I did a gain calibration and there was no change.
But, now you got me thinking.
My 50-Ohm load is +30 years old and I doubt is rated for 50MHz.

___ 
73,
Jim - N4ST


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2018 22:50
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3s Output on 6M

Have you run a Transmitter Gain Calibration from the K3 Utility Application?  
If you do, be sure to use a good dummy load connected direct to the radio with 
a known good short coax jumper.

The fact you have 3 different power indicating devices which all indicate 
different power values, I'd say you have a problem with your power measuring 
system, for starters.   Always when measuring power it is wise to use a known 
good 50 ohm dummy load.  And just because the label says 50 ohms is no sign it 
is really 50 ohms. Measure it with an ohm meter.   Power meters are voltage 
sensing circuits and the R value affects the voltage.  Thus, as examples, 100 
watts into 45 ohms is 67.08 volts, 100 watts into 50 ohms is 70.71 volts, and 
100 watts into 55 ohms is 74.16 volts.Even with a 1:1 SWR most antennas 
have some reactance and power indications will vary, depending on the complex 
Z.  It is not reliable to measure power with a reactive load such as an antenna.

Good luck.

73

Bob, K4TAX



On 7/10/2018 9:18 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
> Thanks Fred,
>
> Guess I have some issues with my K3s then.
> I think it's past warranty at this point.
> I'll break out the K3 and try to get it working in place of the K3s, 
> send the K3s back for repair and figure how to get WSJT going with the 
> K3 while 6 is still open.
>
> 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
>
>> My K3S shows 100 watts, my Bird 43 with a 100 watt element shows 105 
>> watts, my Daiwa CN-801HP shows 105 watts.   All measurements are made 
>> into a known 50 ohm dummy load.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> On 7/10/2018 7:03 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
>>> What is the expected output on 6 meters?
>>>
>>> The K3 shows 110W
>>> The P3 watt meter says 73.1W
>>> The LP-100A says 60.1W
>>>
>>> When I use the internal tuner it never breaks into the higher power 
>>> range, it only outputs at 7 watts tops.
>>>
>>> On all the lower bands it puts out 100 reliably.
>>>
>>> Thanks & 73,
>>>
>>> Gary
>>> KA1J
>>> __
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>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
>>> rmcg...@blomand.net
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3s Output on 6M

[Nr4c]

Did you check the specs?  I don’t think it is supposed to put out full 110 
Watts on 10 or 6 meters. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Jul 10, 2018, at 8:03 PM, Gary Smith  wrote:
> 
> What is the expected output on 6 meters? 
> 
> The K3 shows 110W
> The P3 watt meter says 73.1W
> The LP-100A says 60.1W
> 
> When I use the internal tuner it never 
> breaks into the higher power range, it 
> only outputs at 7 watts tops.
> 
> On all the lower bands it puts out 100 
> reliably.
> 
> Thanks & 73,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3s Output on 6M

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Have you run a Transmitter Gain Calibration from the K3 Utility 
Application?  If you do, be sure to use a good dummy load connected 
direct to the radio with a known good short coax jumper.


The fact you have 3 different power indicating devices which all 
indicate different power values, I'd say you have a problem with your 
power measuring system, for starters.   Always when measuring power it 
is wise to use a known good 50 ohm dummy load.  And just because the 
label says 50 ohms is no sign it is really 50 ohms. Measure it with an 
ohm meter.   Power meters are voltage sensing circuits and the R value 
affects the voltage.  Thus, as examples, 100 watts into 45 ohms is 67.08 
volts, 100 watts into 50 ohms is 70.71 volts, and 100 watts into 55 ohms 
is 74.16 volts.    Even with a 1:1 SWR most antennas have some reactance 
and power indications will vary, depending on the complex Z.  It is not 
reliable to measure power with a reactive load such as an antenna.


Good luck.

73

Bob, K4TAX



On 7/10/2018 9:18 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

Thanks Fred,

Guess I have some issues with my K3s then.
I think it's past warranty at this point.
I'll break out the K3 and try to get it
working in place of the K3s, send the K3s
back for repair and figure how to get WSJT
going with the K3 while 6 is still open.

73,

Gary
KA1J


My K3S shows 100 watts, my Bird 43 with a 100 watt element shows 105
watts, my Daiwa CN-801HP shows 105 watts.   All measurements are made
into a known 50 ohm dummy load.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 7/10/2018 7:03 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

What is the expected output on 6 meters?

The K3 shows 110W
The P3 watt meter says 73.1W
The LP-100A says 60.1W

When I use the internal tuner it never
breaks into the higher power range, it
only outputs at 7 watts tops.

On all the lower bands it puts out 100
reliably.

Thanks & 73,

Gary
KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] K3s Output on 6M

[Gary Smith]

Thanks Fred,

Guess I have some issues with my K3s then. 
I think it's past warranty at this point. 
I'll break out the K3 and try to get it 
working in place of the K3s, send the K3s 
back for repair and figure how to get WSJT 
going with the K3 while 6 is still open.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> My K3S shows 100 watts, my Bird 43 with a 100 watt element shows 105
> watts, my Daiwa CN-801HP shows 105 watts.   All measurements are made
> into a known 50 ohm dummy load.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> On 7/10/2018 7:03 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
> > What is the expected output on 6 meters?
> >
> > The K3 shows 110W
> > The P3 watt meter says 73.1W
> > The LP-100A says 60.1W
> >
> > When I use the internal tuner it never
> > breaks into the higher power range, it
> > only outputs at 7 watts tops.
> >
> > On all the lower bands it puts out 100
> > reliably.
> >
> > Thanks & 73,
> >
> > Gary
> > KA1J
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net
> >
> 
> 
> 



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[Elecraft] K3s Output on 6M

[Gary Smith]

What is the expected output on 6 meters? 

The K3 shows 110W
The P3 watt meter says 73.1W
The LP-100A says 60.1W

When I use the internal tuner it never 
breaks into the higher power range, it 
only outputs at 7 watts tops.

On all the lower bands it puts out 100 
reliably.

Thanks & 73,

Gary
KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 output power KX2/KX3

[Neil Zampella]

FWIW ... with one of the KX3 aftermarket heat sinks, and after I 
performed the VFO Temperature Compensation routine, I was regularly 
doing 10W on the rig with JT65 with its 42 sec Tx cycle.   The heatsink 
did get warm enough that it worried me, and I added a salvaged 12v fan 
from an old desktop computer to assist, but I never had it shut down due 
to the heat.   If you have one of the KX3s without a heatsink, I'd 
definitely get one and install it.


Neil, KN3ILZ


On 10/26/2017 8:30 AM, Tommy wrote:

I use 5-10 watts without any issues. 3-4 bars on the ALC.

73!

Tom - KB2SMS

KX2 #01927


On 10/26/2017 07:50 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:

What is the recommended max power output setting for the KX2 and for the
KX3 for normal FT8 use without after-market heatsink?

Thanks & 73,
Barry N1EU





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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 output power KX2/KX3

[Walter Underwood]

The KX3 specifications in the manual (page 54) say 5 W for digital modes. I 
expect the KX2 specs also list a power level.

"Supply voltage of 11 V or higher (on key-down) required for settings above 5 W.
5 W or less recommended for high-duty-cycle modes (FM, AM, DATA). Power will
automatically be reduced if PA temperature or current limits are exceeded."

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Oct 26, 2017, at 6:05 AM, Barry N1EU  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Tom and Don for the responses.  I'll try a few 15sec FT8 xmit cycles
> at 50% (7.5W) into a dummy load while monitoring PA temp.  Any guidance on
> what the upper safe limit is for PA temp?
> 
> Thanks & 73,
> Barry N1EU
> 
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 8:34 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
>> Barry,
>> 
>> The normal recommendation is for 50% of the maximum power.
>> The KX3 and the KX2 will roll back power for protection if the PA
>> transistors get too hot.
>> I know the KX3 rolls back to 5 watts, but I am not sure about the level
>> for the KX2.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/26/2017 7:50 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:
>> 
>>> What is the recommended max power output setting for the KX2 and for the
>>> KX3 for normal FT8 use without after-market heatsink?
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 output power KX2/KX3

[Don Wilhelm]

Barry,

You should be able to tolerate 60 degC measured at the PA transistor 
tabs for short periods.


You can read the PA temperature in the Alternate VFO B display.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/26/2017 9:05 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:

Thanks Tom and Don for the responses.  I'll try a few 15sec FT8 xmit cycles
at 50% (7.5W) into a dummy load while monitoring PA temp.  Any guidance on
what the upper safe limit is for PA temp?

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 output power KX2/KX3

[Barry N1EU]

Thanks Tom and Don for the responses.  I'll try a few 15sec FT8 xmit cycles
at 50% (7.5W) into a dummy load while monitoring PA temp.  Any guidance on
what the upper safe limit is for PA temp?

Thanks & 73,
Barry N1EU

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 8:34 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> Barry,
>
> The normal recommendation is for 50% of the maximum power.
> The KX3 and the KX2 will roll back power for protection if the PA
> transistors get too hot.
> I know the KX3 rolls back to 5 watts, but I am not sure about the level
> for the KX2.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> On 10/26/2017 7:50 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:
>
>> What is the recommended max power output setting for the KX2 and for the
>> KX3 for normal FT8 use without after-market heatsink?
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 output power KX2/KX3

[Don Wilhelm]

Barry,

The normal recommendation is for 50% of the maximum power.
The KX3 and the KX2 will roll back power for protection if the PA 
transistors get too hot.
I know the KX3 rolls back to 5 watts, but I am not sure about the level 
for the KX2.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/26/2017 7:50 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:

What is the recommended max power output setting for the KX2 and for the
KX3 for normal FT8 use without after-market heatsink?

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 output power KX2/KX3

[Tommy]

  I use 5-10 watts without any issues. 3-4 bars on the ALC.

73!

Tom - KB2SMS

KX2 #01927


On 10/26/2017 07:50 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:

What is the recommended max power output setting for the KX2 and for the
KX3 for normal FT8 use without after-market heatsink?

Thanks & 73,
Barry N1EU


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[Elecraft] FT8 output power KX2/KX3

[Barry N1EU]

What is the recommended max power output setting for the KX2 and for the
KX3 for normal FT8 use without after-market heatsink?

Thanks & 73,
Barry N1EU
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Re: [Elecraft] kxv3 output question

[Jim Rhodes]

Actually looking at a different brand of transferred for satellite and
terrestrial work both. The transferred list says 28-32 for the XV432 was
wondering if it would go any higher in freq.

Jim Rhodes

On Sep 11, 2017 2:20 PM, "Don Wilhelm"  wrote:

> Jim,
>
> The power level can be set up to 120mW.
> The frequency range is about 2MHz.  I recall that initially the internal 2
> meter transceiver design was to be for a 50MHz IF, but was later changed to
> a 28MHz IF which required switching between 2 crystals to cover the entire
> 2 meter band.
> That is a limitation imposed by the 10 meter bandpass filters.
>
> If that information is not correct, I am certain that someone at Elecraft
> will provide corrections.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 9/11/2017 2:36 PM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>
>> Can someone tell me the output range of freq for 10 meter if and power
>> output level. Using the "a" version.
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] kxv3 output question

[Don Wilhelm]

Jim,

The power level can be set up to 120mW.
The frequency range is about 2MHz.  I recall that initially the internal 
2 meter transceiver design was to be for a 50MHz IF, but was later 
changed to a 28MHz IF which required switching between 2 crystals to 
cover the entire 2 meter band.

That is a limitation imposed by the 10 meter bandpass filters.

If that information is not correct, I am certain that someone at 
Elecraft will provide corrections.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/11/2017 2:36 PM, Jim Rhodes wrote:

Can someone tell me the output range of freq for 10 meter if and power
output level. Using the "a" version.

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[Elecraft] kxv3 output question

[Jim Rhodes]

Can someone tell me the output range of freq for 10 meter if and power
output level. Using the "a" version.

Jim Rhodes
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[Elecraft] Slow output/no output on KPA500 after changing drive from K3

[NH7RO]

Recently I've begun having a very annoying power problem with my K3/KPA500
combo on 40M.  I recently built a 7-foot diameter STL that I am using as my
sole antenna for that band.  

The problem started after I had some hard faults at QRO;  I gradually
increased the drive to full output but due to my closely mounting the loop's
capacitor and element ends (high voltage points) to its wood support stand I
might have had some arc-over; the previously perfect 1:1 SWR climbed into
the red and the amp would alarm.

I quickly corrected the mounting so that there was more distance between the
stand and high-voltage bits and was then able to load the antenna with
500-600 watts without fault thereafter.  That apparently corrected the
SWR/excessive dissipation issue entirely, except I am still left with
another issue.

*The problem is that whenever I key up and or change the drive level via my
K3's drive knob the amp's output either woks as intended or not at
all---especially beyond the 12-watt level. * Or if I have the drive set at
20 watts and up it to 22 or 25 or anywhere else the amp's output falls or is
nil.  SWR is still fine, 1.2:1 or better but that makes no difference
whatsoever in the amp's erratic behavior.

I have developed a sort of workaround method in order to chase DX with my
newly constructed loop using 400-500 watts SSB:

I hit the TUNE button on the K3 for a moment then immediately key the mic
and begin calling---that seems to "goose" the amp into transmitting for a
while.  If I don't keep transmitting often then it falls back into the "no
output" scenario and I must repeat the TUNE "fix" again to reactivate
things.

This has been happening both before and after I updated the firmware in the
K3 and the KPA500 the other day.  The updates installed without a hitch,
too.

I am sure that the TX Inhibit is OFF and most if not all of the other
parameters that could affect this are set to default.

I had the same problem with the power not coming out of the amp back in
November of 2011 but that turned out to be my using both the KPA to KE big
cable as well as a separate PA keying cable plugged in which shouldn't have
been---now there's only the big K3 multi-pin cable hooked up to the amp.

My HV reading is around 75 to 76VDC and it drops to 61VDC in the worst-case
scenario (generally about 63VDC or higher key down).

In searching this forum as well as Google before posting this today I ran
across a few similar situations posted by others---NOT ONE OF THEM COUGHED
UP AN ACTUAL DEFINITIVE SOLUTION to this strange anomaly.  IIRC, Don, W3FPR
did say that the problem was in the K3 and not the amp and I tend to agree. 
This often happens when I change the drive setting ever so slightly.

Others had cabling issues that were corrected and as I discovered to my
dismay that the majority of folks chalked up the issue to an occasional
glitch that was of little consequence.

Not to me!   I would LOVE to be able to fix this once and for all and be
confident that when I key the mic or trip my VOX that my call is being sent
at the power level desired.

I have also heard that this may be a transformer issue or a voltage tap
issue; any thoughts or info on these would also be welcome.   I sure hope I
can get this sorted before the ARRL Phone contest in a couple weeks!

Thanks for any help that comes my way; I really hope I won't need to ship
this gear to Elecraft for diagnosis/repair if I don't absolutely have to.

I can no longer easily open/read the mailing list sent to my Outlook inbox
(problem with a recent change in Outlook, I think) so feel free to email me
directly as well as reply to the list:  cathrowinternational (at) hot mail
(dot) com

73,  Jeff,  NH7RO




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[Elecraft] KREF3 Output Level Mod

[Russ]

All:

Since I'm digging into the K3 to add some options, I have decided to make the 
output level mods suggested for the KREF3 board when used with the KSYN3A 
synth. Sub-rx and internal transverter.

Just wondering why the R12 (main rx ref feed) swap from 150 ohms to 51 ohms and 
not the R10 sub rx feed resistor too?
Is the main rx feed double terminated with the addition of the transverter, 
thus needing additional drive?

Tnx,
Russ KD4JO
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Re: [Elecraft] No Output from K3S on WSJT MSK144

[John Stengrevics]

Thanks George,

Turns out it was a matter of settings on both the K3S and the WSJT software.

John
WA1EAZ

> On Feb 9, 2017, at 1:30 PM, George Thornton <gthorn...@thorntonmostullaw.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I am not sure I understand your problem, and therefore my potential solution 
> may be irrelevant.
>  
> I experienced sudden extremely low power output recently during a contest.   
>  
> The solution was to re-install the firmware and recalibrate TX power.   <>
>  
> I later determined the cause was voltage drop coming from the power supply.  
> I fixed loose connections in my power supply and put a short lead from the 
> supply direct to the K3 and things are going well again.
>  
> Problem fixed at zero cost.
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> <mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net>] On Behalf Of stengrevics
> Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 7:10 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net <mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: [Elecraft] No Output from K3S on WSJT MSK144
>  
> Was working fine, but today I have no output from the K3S on WSJT MSK144. If
> I select "Tune" on the WSJT screen and try to adjust the Mic gain control, I
> can't get any reading on the ALC meter. Any suggestions would be
> appreciated.
> 
> John
> WA1EAZ
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/No-Output-from-K3S-on-WSJT-MSK144-tp7626575.html
>  
> <http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/No-Output-from-K3S-on-WSJT-MSK144-tp7626575.html>
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com 
> <http://nabble.com/>.
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Re: [Elecraft] No Output from K3S on WSJT MSK144

[John Stengrevics]

Don,

No, nothing in the LINE IN jack.

The audio setting on WSJT did also get changed.  I put it back on CODEC.

It is working now.  I had to set CONFIG > MIC SEL = LINE IN, and increase the 
power slider on the WSJT screen.

Thanks,

John
WA1EAZ

> On Feb 9, 2017, at 12:53 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> John,
> 
> Is there any chance you plugged something into the K3S LINE IN jack? Doing so 
> turns off the CODEC audio out and the audio is taken from the LINE IN jack 
> only.
> 
> If nothing in the LINE IN jack, check the levels for the CODEC in your 
> computer.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 2/9/2017 10:10 AM, stengrevics wrote:
>> Was working fine, but today I have no output from the K3S on WSJT MSK144.  If
>> I select "Tune" on the WSJT screen and try to adjust the Mic gain control, I
>> can't get any reading on the ALC meter.  Any suggestions would be
>> appreciated.

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Re: [Elecraft] No Output from K3S on WSJT MSK144

[George Thornton]

I am not sure I understand your problem, and therefore my potential solution 
may be irrelevant.

I experienced sudden extremely low power output recently during a contest.

The solution was to re-install the firmware and recalibrate TX power.

I later determined the cause was voltage drop coming from the power supply.  I 
fixed loose connections in my power supply and put a short lead from the supply 
direct to the K3 and things are going well again.

Problem fixed at zero cost.
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of 
stengrevics
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 7:10 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] No Output from K3S on WSJT MSK144

Was working fine, but today I have no output from the K3S on WSJT MSK144. If
I select "Tune" on the WSJT screen and try to adjust the Mic gain control, I
can't get any reading on the ALC meter. Any suggestions would be
appreciated.

John
WA1EAZ



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Re: [Elecraft] No Output from K3S on WSJT MSK144

[Don Wilhelm]

John,

Is there any chance you plugged something into the K3S LINE IN jack? 
Doing so turns off the CODEC audio out and the audio is taken from the 
LINE IN jack only.


If nothing in the LINE IN jack, check the levels for the CODEC in your 
computer.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/9/2017 10:10 AM, stengrevics wrote:

Was working fine, but today I have no output from the K3S on WSJT MSK144.  If
I select "Tune" on the WSJT screen and try to adjust the Mic gain control, I
can't get any reading on the ALC meter.  Any suggestions would be
appreciated.

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Re: [Elecraft] No Output from K3S on WSJT MSK144

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Check the "Master" level for "Speakers (USB Audio CODEC)" in Windows'
Volume Control.  If things got changed, perhaps your Windows Sound
Settings also got changed.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2/9/2017 10:35 AM, John Stengrevics wrote:

Joe,

Thanks.  The MIC SEL did get changed somehow.  So, I now set it to LIN IN

DATA = DATA A

MIC + LIN = not APPL

I am connected via a USB cable from my MAC to the K3S.

The Power Slider on WSJT is set mid-way.

Now I do get output to drive my amp, but it’s not what it should be.  But, 
still no ability to adjust the ALC level if I select the “Tune” button on WSJT.

John
WA1EAZ


On Feb 9, 2017, at 10:26 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:


Are you using DATA and data sub-mode DATA A?

Is MENU:MIC SEL = LIN IN?

Is MENU:MIC + LIN = OFF (or not APPL)?

Have you connected anything to the LINE IN jack?

Has the Soundcard Output changed in WSJT-X?

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 2/9/2017 10:10 AM, stengrevics wrote:

Was working fine, but today I have no output from the K3S on WSJT MSK144.  If
I select "Tune" on the WSJT screen and try to adjust the Mic gain control, I
can't get any reading on the ALC meter.  Any suggestions would be
appreciated.

John
WA1EAZ



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[Elecraft] No Output from K3S on WSJT MSK144

[stengrevics]

Was working fine, but today I have no output from the K3S on WSJT MSK144.  If
I select "Tune" on the WSJT screen and try to adjust the Mic gain control, I
can't get any reading on the ALC meter.  Any suggestions would be
appreciated.

John
WA1EAZ



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Re: [Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3

[w7aqk]

Jim and All,

Thanks much for the explanation.  Makes a lot more sense now.  Not sure how 
I missed your past comments that covered that.


I also got several other responses which were most helpful, and I appreciate 
them as well.  It sure is nice to ask a question and get good answers!!  Hi.


Cheers!

Dave W7AQK


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Re: [Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

OK, here goes my two cents on my KX3 operation.  I use the internal speaker for 
CW only.  I use a miniX self powered speaker for quiet portable work and I use 
a FM modulator from the phone jack while in the mobile to the car FM receiver.  
 All seems to work fine.  This way I don't worry about impedance issues.

Mel, K6KBE


  From: Don Wilhelm <donw...@embarqmail.com>
 To: w7aqk <w7...@cox.net>; Elecraft Reflector <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
 Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 1:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3
   
David,

Let me try to respond and perhaps Jim will chime in a well.

Modern audio amplifier output stages are very low output impedance devices.
As such, they can produce as much power as the device connected will 
allow.  In a practical design of course there is a limit to how much 
current the attached device (speaker or headphones) can draw from the 
amplifier.

With that being said, the lower the impedance, the more current that 
will be drawn.  Speakers are generally in the 4 ohm to 8 ohm region and 
a 4 ohm speaker will draw more current and develop more power than an 8 
ohm speaker.  The efficiency of a speaker makes a big difference in the 
amount of sound it produces.

Headphones are a slightly different matter (but only slightly) in that 
they are typically higher impedance and the current will be lower, and 
the voltage across it can be higher, but they are more efficient than 
speakers so it usually does not matter.  The efficiency of headphones is 
usually expressed in SPL - the higher the number, the greater the 
sensitivity.  Impedance does not matter much except in some low 
efficiency Hi-Fi audiophile headphones.

In an analogy, consider the AC power line - that is a very low impedance 
source of a fixed voltage.  How much power is taken from the line 
depends on the impedance of the device plugged into it.  Within limits, 
an audio amplifier shares some of the same characteristics even though 
its voltage and power are much more limited.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/23/2017 3:06 PM, w7aqk wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Maybe you could expand on that somewhat as I'm still confused a bit.
> Perhaps I'm not understanding what I hear, or why, but it almost always
> seems that when speakers (or headphones) are not closely matched to the
> designed impedance I notice some deterioration in output.  Some mismatch
> doesn't seem too serious, but when the difference is high, it seems much
> more noticeable.
>
> On the other hand, I've also experienced that using headphones with
> higher sensitivity ratings (like most Sony ear buds) tends to provide
> much higher output.  Most ear buds tend to be 32 ohm (16 at lest), but I
> find Sony ear buds usually work best as many of them have sensitivity
> ratings up around -108 dbm.  I could very well be fooling myself!
>
> This topic was covered somewhat similarly back when folks, including me,
> were complaining about poor audio output from Heil headphones.  The
> headphone portion of my Yamaha CM500 works a lot better than my Heil,
> but neither works as well as some ear buds.  I don't really have another
> good pair of headphones around here to try.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3

[Don Wilhelm]

David,

Let me try to respond and perhaps Jim will chime in a well.

Modern audio amplifier output stages are very low output impedance devices.
As such, they can produce as much power as the device connected will 
allow.  In a practical design of course there is a limit to how much 
current the attached device (speaker or headphones) can draw from the 
amplifier.


With that being said, the lower the impedance, the more current that 
will be drawn.  Speakers are generally in the 4 ohm to 8 ohm region and 
a 4 ohm speaker will draw more current and develop more power than an 8 
ohm speaker.  The efficiency of a speaker makes a big difference in the 
amount of sound it produces.


Headphones are a slightly different matter (but only slightly) in that 
they are typically higher impedance and the current will be lower, and 
the voltage across it can be higher, but they are more efficient than 
speakers so it usually does not matter.  The efficiency of headphones is 
usually expressed in SPL - the higher the number, the greater the 
sensitivity.  Impedance does not matter much except in some low 
efficiency Hi-Fi audiophile headphones.


In an analogy, consider the AC power line - that is a very low impedance 
source of a fixed voltage.  How much power is taken from the line 
depends on the impedance of the device plugged into it.  Within limits, 
an audio amplifier shares some of the same characteristics even though 
its voltage and power are much more limited.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/23/2017 3:06 PM, w7aqk wrote:

Jim,

Maybe you could expand on that somewhat as I'm still confused a bit.
Perhaps I'm not understanding what I hear, or why, but it almost always
seems that when speakers (or headphones) are not closely matched to the
designed impedance I notice some deterioration in output.  Some mismatch
doesn't seem too serious, but when the difference is high, it seems much
more noticeable.

On the other hand, I've also experienced that using headphones with
higher sensitivity ratings (like most Sony ear buds) tends to provide
much higher output.  Most ear buds tend to be 32 ohm (16 at lest), but I
find Sony ear buds usually work best as many of them have sensitivity
ratings up around -108 dbm.  I could very well be fooling myself!

This topic was covered somewhat similarly back when folks, including me,
were complaining about poor audio output from Heil headphones.  The
headphone portion of my Yamaha CM500 works a lot better than my Heil,
but neither works as well as some ear buds.  I don't really have another
good pair of headphones around here to try.


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Re: [Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,1/23/2017 12:54 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
The impedance of mics is defined as 5X their minimum load impedance. 


Correction -- one-fifth of their minimum load impedance. For example, a 
250 ohm mic should drive an input impedance no lower than 1.25K. Most 
pro mics are in the range of 150-250 ohms.


Another point I forgot to mention. ALL electro-acoustic transducers 
(mics, loudspeakers, headphones) are very complex, and their equivalent 
circuits are also very complex, containing multiple reactive components 
and a few resonances. The impedance curve of a typical loudspeaker or 
headphone has a low frequency peak of hundreds of ohms, a broad minimum 
at the lower middle of its operating range, and rises rapidly with 
frequency as it approaches the top of its operating range. The impedance 
of a loudspeaker or headphones is defined as that minimum value of the 
impedance. Multi-way loudspeakers have two such drivers, each with its 
own equivalent circuit, fed respectively by low pass and high pass filters.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3

[Jim Brown]

Hi Dave,

I've written about this many times, but here goes again. :)  Your choice 
of the words "designed impedance" is a good one.


Audio output stages have an internal impedance MUCH lower than the loads 
they are designed to drive. For example, a typical speaker output stage 
is designed to drive any load impedance greater than 4 ohms, but it's 
own internal impedance (also called "source impedance") is a small 
fraction of an ohm. The ratio between those two impedances is called the 
"damping factor," and a value of 100 is typical. Line level outputs for 
consumer gear are typically in the range of 200-400 ohms, and are 
designed to drive 47K. Pro line outs are typically 100 ohms, designed to 
drive 5-10K. The impedance of mics is defined as 5X their minimum load 
impedance.


Output stages that feed plug-able jacks are usually built with resistors 
in series to protect the output devices from damage by a short when a 
jack is being inserted or is inserted improperly. Typical resistor 
values are in the range of 10-500 ohms. Headphone outputs are designed 
to feed headphone impedances between 8 and 500 ohms.


The impedance of headphones is simply a ratio between voltage and 
current. Lower impedance headphones need less voltage but more current, 
higher impedance headphones need more voltage but less current. That 
series protection resistor tends to compensate for those differences. 
Engineers who design headphones understand all of this and they want 
their headphones to work with anything they are plugged into, so they 
tend to design for high voltage sensitivity.


It's a pretty safe assumption that any "brand name" headphones are going 
to work with any well-designed headphone amp.  The KX3 is a bit of a 
special case, because Wayne always designs for low battery drain, which 
means that his audio output stages are somewhat "current starved," so 
they don't provide a lot of output. As usual, I find his designs to be 
very good compromises in that regard.


I find the KX3 plenty loud enough with any of the decent headphones I've 
tried, and pretty good in a quiet location with the internal speaker.  I 
virtually always operate with cans, and use the speaker only for casual 
monitoring. I find the KX3 quite useful for chasing RFI or checking out 
temporary antennas.


73, Jim K9YC

On Mon,1/23/2017 12:06 PM, w7aqk wrote:
Maybe you could expand on that somewhat as I'm still confused a bit. 
Perhaps I'm not understanding what I hear, or why, but it almost 
always seems that when speakers (or headphones) are not closely 
matched to the designed impedance I notice some deterioration in 
output.  Some mismatch doesn't seem too serious, but when the 
difference is high, it seems much more noticeable.



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Re: [Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3

[w7aqk]

Jim,

Maybe you could expand on that somewhat as I'm still confused a bit. 
Perhaps I'm not understanding what I hear, or why, but it almost always 
seems that when speakers (or headphones) are not closely matched to the 
designed impedance I notice some deterioration in output.  Some mismatch 
doesn't seem too serious, but when the difference is high, it seems much 
more noticeable.


On the other hand, I've also experienced that using headphones with higher 
sensitivity ratings (like most Sony ear buds) tends to provide much higher 
output.  Most ear buds tend to be 32 ohm (16 at lest), but I find Sony ear 
buds usually work best as many of them have sensitivity ratings up 
around -108 dbm.  I could very well be fooling myself!


This topic was covered somewhat similarly back when folks, including me, 
were complaining about poor audio output from Heil headphones.  The 
headphone portion of my Yamaha CM500 works a lot better than my Heil, but 
neither works as well as some ear buds.  I don't really have another good 
pair of headphones around here to try.


Also, it was interesting to see Eric's response to this question.  He 
indicates that the rigs are spec'd at 4 ohms, and that 8 ohm speakers would 
diminish output somewhat.


Anyway, maybe you could make this all a bit clearer.

Thanks,

Dave W7AQK


From: Jim Brown 

On Mon,1/23/2017 9:22 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:

For portable operation, I use Apple EarPods. Those are 45 Ohms.


Don't worry about impedance of headphones. There is no need to match
impedances in audio circuits.

73, Jim K9YC 


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Re: [Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3

[ANCLETUS ERNEST]

I use from day one headset insten with mic works very will

>From my DL750 Digicel

On Jan 23, 2017 2:35 PM, a...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
A good question?   See you got specific answer for K3/K3S but not KX3.   Any 
direct answers for KX3, rather than different headsets?   I would go for 
earbuds for lightest weight but would like high efficiency type with KX3.
Anyone found a good efficient set of earbuds with the KX3?
73, Mike  AC5P

On Monday, January 23, 2017 11:01 AM, Joe W2KJ  wrote:


 Howdy Gang:

Checked the KX3 manual but was unable to find the audio output impedance of the 
KX3, i.e., what impedance headphones/speaker should I be using on the rig?

I’m looking to buy a lightweight headset for portable ops and want to know what 
impedance I should be looking for.

Many thanks for any info.

73, Joe W2KJ
KX3,  KX2



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Re: [Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3

[ac5p]

A good question?   See you got specific answer for K3/K3S but not KX3.   Any 
direct answers for KX3, rather than different headsets?   I would go for 
earbuds for lightest weight but would like high efficiency type with KX3.    
Anyone found a good efficient set of earbuds with the KX3?   
73, Mike  AC5P 

On Monday, January 23, 2017 11:01 AM, Joe W2KJ  wrote:
 

 Howdy Gang:

Checked the KX3 manual but was unable to find the audio output impedance of the 
KX3, i.e., what impedance headphones/speaker should I be using on the rig?

I’m looking to buy a lightweight headset for portable ops and want to know what 
impedance I should be looking for.

Many thanks for any info.

            73, Joe W2KJ
            KX3,  KX2



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Re: [Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3

[Fred Jensen]

I think it is very low on practically all of today's radios and it 
doesn't matter, the output stage will drive anything.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 1/23/2017 9:00 AM, Joe W2KJ wrote:

Howdy Gang:

Checked the KX3 manual but was unable to find the audio output impedance of the 
KX3, i.e., what impedance headphones/speaker should I be using on the rig?

I’m looking to buy a lightweight headset for portable ops and want to know what 
impedance I should be looking for.

Many thanks for any info.

73, Joe W2KJ
KX3,   KX2



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--
This message has been scanned by E.F.A. Project and is believed to be clean.




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Re: [Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

For the speaker output, the K3 and K3S are optimized for 4 ohms. The SP3 is a 4 
ohm speaker.


8 Ohm speakers work fine, but a a slightly lower audio output for the same 
volume control position.


Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 1/23/2017 9:00 AM, Joe W2KJ wrote:

Howdy Gang:

Checked the KX3 manual but was unable to find the audio output impedance of the 
KX3, i.e., what impedance headphones/speaker should I be using on the rig?

I’m looking to buy a lightweight headset for portable ops and want to know what 
impedance I should be looking for.

Many thanks for any info.

73, Joe W2KJ
KX3,   KX2



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Re: [Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,1/23/2017 9:22 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:

For portable operation, I use Apple EarPods. Those are 45 Ohms.


Don't worry about impedance of headphones. There is no need to match 
impedances in audio circuits.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3

[Walter Underwood]

For portable operation, I use Apple EarPods. Those are 45 Ohms.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jan 23, 2017, at 9:07 AM, Walter Underwood  wrote:
> 
> I use Yamaha CM500 headphones and their specs say 120 Ohms. They work fine.
> 
> http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/accessories/headphones/cm500/ 
> 
> 
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> 
>> On Jan 23, 2017, at 9:00 AM, Joe W2KJ  wrote:
>> 
>> Howdy Gang:
>> 
>> Checked the KX3 manual but was unable to find the audio output impedance of 
>> the KX3, i.e., what impedance headphones/speaker should I be using on the 
>> rig?
>> 
>> I’m looking to buy a lightweight headset for portable ops and want to know 
>> what impedance I should be looking for.
>> 
>> Many thanks for any info.
>> 
>>  73, Joe W2KJ
>>  KX3,   KX2
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3

[Walter Underwood]

I use Yamaha CM500 headphones and their specs say 120 Ohms. They work fine.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/accessories/headphones/cm500/ 


wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jan 23, 2017, at 9:00 AM, Joe W2KJ  wrote:
> 
> Howdy Gang:
> 
> Checked the KX3 manual but was unable to find the audio output impedance of 
> the KX3, i.e., what impedance headphones/speaker should I be using on the rig?
> 
> I’m looking to buy a lightweight headset for portable ops and want to know 
> what impedance I should be looking for.
> 
> Many thanks for any info.
> 
>   73, Joe W2KJ
>   KX3,   KX2

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[Elecraft] Audio Output Impedance of the KX3

[Joe W2KJ]

Howdy Gang:

Checked the KX3 manual but was unable to find the audio output impedance of the 
KX3, i.e., what impedance headphones/speaker should I be using on the rig?

I’m looking to buy a lightweight headset for portable ops and want to know what 
impedance I should be looking for.

Many thanks for any info.

73, Joe W2KJ
KX3,   KX2



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Re: [Elecraft] No output on K3

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 1/14/2017 11:30 AM, Bruce Miller wrote:

Thank you to both Ross and Don for your suggestions. It looks like
Don had the right diagnosis—by turning the Windows and the MicroKeyer
drive levels up to about 75%, and then restarting everything, I
started getting power out on all digital modes. I then adjusted the
MIC Gain asDon suggested and things are working well. THANKS!

My only remaining problem is that I am still not getting any output
on Voice mode, but that seems to be related to the MicroKeyer (I
can’t hear anything when I plug the Line In cable into speakers and
try transmitting). Unless someone here has a similar setup and can
advise me, I’ll just continue to work on it. I have the Mic
connector from my Proset Plus headset plugged into the front Mic
connector on the MicroKeyer, and the headset connector plugged into
the back of the K3—which is what the MicroKeyer instructions seem to
direct.


*PLEASE!*  Follow the instructions in the "Setting Audio Levels"
section of the microHAM microKEYER II Users Manual.  Those step-by-
step instructions will set the mic preamps in MK II, the Windows
sound card output levels, the MK II output levels, *and* both the
mic and line input levels of the transceiver for correct operation
*in all modes*.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 1/14/2017 11:30 AM, Bruce Miller wrote:

Thank you to both Ross and Don for your suggestions. It looks like Don had the 
right diagnosis—by turning the Windows and the MicroKeyer drive levels up to 
about 75%, and then restarting everything, I started getting power out on all 
digital modes. I then adjusted the MIC Gain as Don suggested and things are 
working well. THANKS!

My only remaining problem is that I am still not getting any output on Voice 
mode, but that seems to be related to the MicroKeyer (I can’t hear anything 
when I plug the Line In cable into speakers and try transmitting). Unless 
someone here has a similar setup and can advise me, I’ll just continue to work 
on it. I have the Mic connector from my Proset Plus headset plugged into the 
front Mic connector on the MicroKeyer, and the headset connector plugged into 
the back of the K3—which is what the MicroKeyer instructions seem to direct.

Thanks again for the help in getting my digital modes transmitting!

73,
Bruce K7EY



On Jan 14, 2017, at 7:28 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

Bruce,

The most probable answer is that you are not driving sufficient audio into the 
K3.  You must have 4 bars solid on the K3 ALC meter with the 5th bar flashing - 
this is the NO ALC point for the K3, ignore the internet advice which applies 
to non-Elecraft transceivers.

The fact that you can hear the signal says it is getting to the K3, but says 
nothing about the level.

Adjust the soundcard slider in your computer to about 75%.

Make certain the Navigator is set for Line Level output and not MIC level.

Then you should be able to adjust the K3 MIC Gain (really Line In gain) to 
achieve the required number of ALC bars.
You can do that setup in TX TEST so you are not generating RF, or connect the 
K3 to a dummy load.

Once you achieve the proper audio level, set your desired power level with the 
POWER knob.

73,
Don W3FPR


On 1/14/2017 9:00 AM, Bruce Miller wrote:

I’ve been working in vain over the past few days to get my K3 up and running 
digital modes (other than CW). Several years ago I had things working with a 
Navigator interface and my 756 Pro II, but it got fried by a lightening strike 
and I’m just now trying to get things working again.

Here’s my setup:

Full K-Line (K3)
MicroHam MicroKeyer II
Heil ProSet Plus (non-ic version)
DXLab software (but I’ve tried FLDigi and several other programs as well with 
the same results)
Symptoms:

CW transmit and receive works well, both from the key and the software
On other digital modes and voice, transmitter keys properly, but no power is 
transmitted
The signal is making it out of the MicroKeyer interface (I plugged the cable 
that normally plugs into the Line In on the K3 into speakers and could hear the 
signal coming from the computer and interface)
The signal is making it into the K3 (By enabling the MON, I was able to hear 
the signal through my headphones attached to the K3)
Using the K3 utility, I can transmit in CW, RTTY and PSK


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Re: [Elecraft] No output on K3

[Don Wilhelm]

Bruce,

Check the mic element in that ProSet - the type is normally printed 
where the microphone boom attaches to the headphones.

If it is an "iC" type, you need to turn bias on.

If there is a capacitor in series with the AF line in the MicroKeyer, 
then setting bias on in the K3 will not be effective because the 
capacitor will block the bias voltage.  Joe Subich can tell you about that.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/14/2017 11:30 AM, Bruce Miller wrote:

Thank you to both Ross and Don for your suggestions. It looks like Don had the 
right diagnosis—by turning the Windows and the MicroKeyer drive levels up to 
about 75%, and then restarting everything, I started getting power out on all 
digital modes. I then adjusted the MIC Gain as Don suggested and things are 
working well. THANKS!

My only remaining problem is that I am still not getting any output on Voice 
mode, but that seems to be related to the MicroKeyer (I can’t hear anything 
when I plug the Line In cable into speakers and try transmitting). Unless 
someone here has a similar setup and can advise me, I’ll just continue to work 
on it. I have the Mic connector from my Proset Plus headset plugged into the 
front Mic connector on the MicroKeyer, and the headset connector plugged into 
the back of the K3—which is what the MicroKeyer instructions seem to direct.

Thanks again for the help in getting my digital modes transmitting!


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Re: [Elecraft] No output on K3

[Bruce Miller]

Thank you to both Ross and Don for your suggestions. It looks like Don had the 
right diagnosis—by turning the Windows and the MicroKeyer drive levels up to 
about 75%, and then restarting everything, I started getting power out on all 
digital modes. I then adjusted the MIC Gain as Don suggested and things are 
working well. THANKS!

My only remaining problem is that I am still not getting any output on Voice 
mode, but that seems to be related to the MicroKeyer (I can’t hear anything 
when I plug the Line In cable into speakers and try transmitting). Unless 
someone here has a similar setup and can advise me, I’ll just continue to work 
on it. I have the Mic connector from my Proset Plus headset plugged into the 
front Mic connector on the MicroKeyer, and the headset connector plugged into 
the back of the K3—which is what the MicroKeyer instructions seem to direct.

Thanks again for the help in getting my digital modes transmitting!

73,
Bruce K7EY


> On Jan 14, 2017, at 7:28 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Bruce,
> 
> The most probable answer is that you are not driving sufficient audio into 
> the K3.  You must have 4 bars solid on the K3 ALC meter with the 5th bar 
> flashing - this is the NO ALC point for the K3, ignore the internet advice 
> which applies to non-Elecraft transceivers.
> 
> The fact that you can hear the signal says it is getting to the K3, but says 
> nothing about the level.
> 
> Adjust the soundcard slider in your computer to about 75%.
> 
> Make certain the Navigator is set for Line Level output and not MIC level.
> 
> Then you should be able to adjust the K3 MIC Gain (really Line In gain) to 
> achieve the required number of ALC bars.
> You can do that setup in TX TEST so you are not generating RF, or connect the 
> K3 to a dummy load.
> 
> Once you achieve the proper audio level, set your desired power level with 
> the POWER knob.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> 
> On 1/14/2017 9:00 AM, Bruce Miller wrote:
>> I’ve been working in vain over the past few days to get my K3 up and running 
>> digital modes (other than CW). Several years ago I had things working with a 
>> Navigator interface and my 756 Pro II, but it got fried by a lightening 
>> strike and I’m just now trying to get things working again.
>> 
>> Here’s my setup:
>> 
>> Full K-Line (K3)
>> MicroHam MicroKeyer II
>> Heil ProSet Plus (non-ic version)
>> DXLab software (but I’ve tried FLDigi and several other programs as well 
>> with the same results)
>> Symptoms:
>> 
>> CW transmit and receive works well, both from the key and the software
>> On other digital modes and voice, transmitter keys properly, but no power is 
>> transmitted
>> The signal is making it out of the MicroKeyer interface (I plugged the cable 
>> that normally plugs into the Line In on the K3 into speakers and could hear 
>> the signal coming from the computer and interface)
>> The signal is making it into the K3 (By enabling the MON, I was able to hear 
>> the signal through my headphones attached to the K3)
>> Using the K3 utility, I can transmit in CW, RTTY and PSK

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Re: [Elecraft] No output on K3

[Don Wilhelm]

Bruce,

The most probable answer is that you are not driving sufficient audio 
into the K3.  You must have 4 bars solid on the K3 ALC meter with the 
5th bar flashing - this is the NO ALC point for the K3, ignore the 
internet advice which applies to non-Elecraft transceivers.


The fact that you can hear the signal says it is getting to the K3, but 
says nothing about the level.


Adjust the soundcard slider in your computer to about 75%.

Make certain the Navigator is set for Line Level output and not MIC level.

Then you should be able to adjust the K3 MIC Gain (really Line In gain) 
to achieve the required number of ALC bars.
You can do that setup in TX TEST so you are not generating RF, or 
connect the K3 to a dummy load.


Once you achieve the proper audio level, set your desired power level 
with the POWER knob.


73,
Don W3FPR


On 1/14/2017 9:00 AM, Bruce Miller wrote:

I’ve been working in vain over the past few days to get my K3 up and running 
digital modes (other than CW). Several years ago I had things working with a 
Navigator interface and my 756 Pro II, but it got fried by a lightening strike 
and I’m just now trying to get things working again.

Here’s my setup:

Full K-Line (K3)
MicroHam MicroKeyer II
Heil ProSet Plus (non-ic version)
DXLab software (but I’ve tried FLDigi and several other programs as well with 
the same results)
Symptoms:

CW transmit and receive works well, both from the key and the software
On other digital modes and voice, transmitter keys properly, but no power is 
transmitted
The signal is making it out of the MicroKeyer interface (I plugged the cable 
that normally plugs into the Line In on the K3 into speakers and could hear the 
signal coming from the computer and interface)
The signal is making it into the K3 (By enabling the MON, I was able to hear 
the signal through my headphones attached to the K3)
Using the K3 utility, I can transmit in CW, RTTY and PSK

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[Elecraft] No output on K3

[Bruce Miller]

I’ve been working in vain over the past few days to get my K3 up and running 
digital modes (other than CW). Several years ago I had things working with a 
Navigator interface and my 756 Pro II, but it got fried by a lightening strike 
and I’m just now trying to get things working again.

Here’s my setup:

Full K-Line (K3)
MicroHam MicroKeyer II
Heil ProSet Plus (non-ic version)
DXLab software (but I’ve tried FLDigi and several other programs as well with 
the same results)
Symptoms:

CW transmit and receive works well, both from the key and the software
On other digital modes and voice, transmitter keys properly, but no power is 
transmitted
The signal is making it out of the MicroKeyer interface (I plugged the cable 
that normally plugs into the Line In on the K3 into speakers and could hear the 
signal coming from the computer and interface)
The signal is making it into the K3 (By enabling the MON, I was able to hear 
the signal through my headphones attached to the K3)
Using the K3 utility, I can transmit in CW, RTTY and PSK
I think this narrows things down to settings on the K3. The question remains, 
why am I not getting any output. Here are some relevant settings:

Menu: MIC SEL: LINE IN
Config: PTT-KEY: RTS-OFF (I’ve tried all settings)
Mic Gain: 10 (I’ve tried increasing this with no change)
I’ve also tried increasing the TX Level on the MicroKeyer with no change
I’ve tried playing around with these settings but the results are still the 
same; power out with CW (but that is not coming through the Line In connection 
because I can disconnect it and I still have CW power), but no output on any 
other mode (unless I’m using the K3 Utility program, where I can get output on 
CW, RTTY, and PSK—but again, it is not through the Line In connection because 
it can be disconnected).

Your thoughts and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

73,
Bruce K7EY
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power falls

[K9SW]

Thanks for the pointer, Fred.  With the book open to p.165, plus a couple of 
other menu adventures, I was able to get the K3 working like it should.  Don’t 
know how the settings were scrambled - something of a mystery.  

Best regards -

Dave K9SW


> On Nov 10, 2016, at 9:10 AM, Cady, Fred <fc...@montana.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> Check CONFIG:KPA3.  It should be PA nor.
> Cheers,
> Fred KE7X
> 
> for all KE7X Elecraft books, see www.ke7x.com <http://www.ke7x.com/>
> 
> 
> From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of K9SW 
> <k...@comcast.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2016 11:49 PM
> To: Elecraft Elecraft
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 output power falls
>  
> Maximum power output on my K3 dropped to 12 watts, for no discernible reason. 
>   Any handy hints about what might cause this?  I haven’t yet taken it apart 
> to check voltages, etc.
> 
> Dave
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power falls

[Cady, Fred]

Hi Dave,

Check CONFIG:KPA3.  It should be PA nor.

Cheers,

Fred KE7X


for all KE7X Elecraft books, see www.ke7x.com



From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of K9SW 
<k...@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2016 11:49 PM
To: Elecraft Elecraft
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 output power falls

Maximum power output on my K3 dropped to 12 watts, for no discernible reason.   
Any handy hints about what might cause this?  I haven't yet taken it apart to 
check voltages, etc.

Dave
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[Elecraft] K3 output power falls

[K9SW]

Maximum power output on my K3 dropped to 12 watts, for no discernible reason.   
Any handy hints about what might cause this?  I haven’t yet taken it apart to 
check voltages, etc.

Dave
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Re: [Elecraft] Power output per mode?

[George Kidder]

Fred OM,

Don't have the KPA500, so that's moot.

I agree that one problem is the lack of any indication of the power 
which will be produced.  The only way I know of is to rotate the "power" 
knob - THEN the power indication shows, but not otherwise.


Guess nothing is perfect, is it?

George, W3HBM


On 10/16/2016 7:47 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
Well, technically it is saved per band per KPA500 state, if you have 
one.  I'm pretty sure it isn't also saved per mode.


I've never been at ease with memory functions that simply save the 
last state without leaving a message somewhere on the display what the 
current saved state is.  When the "Power for KPA state" feature came 
out, there were several times when I faulted the KPA on the first dit 
because the power was at 100W.  I know it was pilot error but I began 
to check it just to be sure.


For a remote station with multiple operators in various places on the 
planet, I really do *always* check the power settings before 
transmitting.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Sparks NV DM09dn

- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 7-8 Oct 2017
- www.cqp.org

On 10/16/2016 3:38 PM, George Kidder wrote:

I suspect that most of us like to reduce our power output on digital
modes, so the continuous carrier doesn't overheat something.  At present
(as far as I can figure out) the power output setting is saved per band
but not per mode, so that changing from CW to digital on the same band
requires remembering to reduce power manually, and remembering to put it
back when digital modes are no longer being used.

As an addition to the long wish list: How about saving the power output
setting per band AND per mode?  Or is there some technical reason why
this is not possible?

73
George, W3HBM


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Re: [Elecraft] Power output per mode?

[Fred Jensen]

Well, technically it is saved per band per KPA500 state, if you have 
one.  I'm pretty sure it isn't also saved per mode.


I've never been at ease with memory functions that simply save the last 
state without leaving a message somewhere on the display what the 
current saved state is.  When the "Power for KPA state" feature came 
out, there were several times when I faulted the KPA on the first dit 
because the power was at 100W.  I know it was pilot error but I began to 
check it just to be sure.


For a remote station with multiple operators in various places on the 
planet, I really do *always* check the power settings before transmitting.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Sparks NV DM09dn

- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 7-8 Oct 2017
- www.cqp.org

On 10/16/2016 3:38 PM, George Kidder wrote:

I suspect that most of us like to reduce our power output on digital
modes, so the continuous carrier doesn't overheat something.  At present
(as far as I can figure out) the power output setting is saved per band
but not per mode, so that changing from CW to digital on the same band
requires remembering to reduce power manually, and remembering to put it
back when digital modes are no longer being used.

As an addition to the long wish list: How about saving the power output
setting per band AND per mode?  Or is there some technical reason why
this is not possible?

73
George, W3HBM


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[Elecraft] Power output per mode?

[George Kidder]

I suspect that most of us like to reduce our power output on digital 
modes, so the continuous carrier doesn't overheat something.  At present 
(as far as I can figure out) the power output setting is saved per band 
but not per mode, so that changing from CW to digital on the same band 
requires remembering to reduce power manually, and remembering to put it 
back when digital modes are no longer being used.


As an addition to the long wish list: How about saving the power output 
setting per band AND per mode?  Or is there some technical reason why 
this is not possible?


73
George, W3HBM
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Output power rating

[Wayne Burdick]

The latest firmware is required; it will allow you to use up to 15 W on 80-20 m 
(10 W elsewhere).

The upgraded heatsink is optional. On my lab KX3 I can put out 15 watts for 
several minutes before hitting the temperature limit, at which power is reduced 
by firmware.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On May 27, 2016, at 10:16 AM, Alan Geller via Elecraft 
 wrote:

> The KX3 is now being positioned as the 15 watt big brother to the smaller KX2 
> “up to 10 watts” version. The upper
> limit on my KX3 power adjustment seems to have always been around 10.2 watts. 
> How does one safely achieve this
> 15 watt performance? Does it require the new/upgrade heatsink plus a new 
> firmware version? I have always used an
> approx. 14 Volt power source.
> 
> I’m sure this has been addressed before but I don’t see the history…thanks 
> for any observations.
> 
> alan/K6ADG
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Output power rating

[Ken Arck]

You really worried about 1.67 dB?


At 10:16 AM 5/27/2016, Alan Geller via Elecraft wrote:
The KX3 is now being positioned as the 15 watt 
big brother to the smaller KX2 “up to 10 
watts” version. The upper limit on my KX3 
power adjustment seems to have always been 
around 10.2 watts. How does one safely achieve 
this 15 watt performance? Does it require the 
new/upgrade heatsink plus a new firmware 
version? I have always used an approx. 14 Volt 
power source. I’m sure this has been addressed 
before but I don’t see the history…thanks foor 
any observations. alan/K6ADG 
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[Elecraft] KX3 Output power rating

[Alan Geller via Elecraft]

The KX3 is now being positioned as the 15 watt big brother to the smaller KX2 
“up to 10 watts” version. The upper
limit on my KX3 power adjustment seems to have always been around 10.2 watts. 
How does one safely achieve this
15 watt performance? Does it require the new/upgrade heatsink plus a new 
firmware version? I have always used an
approx. 14 Volt power source.

I’m sure this has been addressed before but I don’t see the history…thanks for 
any observations.

alan/K6ADG
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

[Jim Brown]

On Tue,3/1/2016 12:54 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
I have not noticed any RF noise on receive when I put it into "always 
on" mode. 


Hi Bill,

This is quite interesting to me. I run SO2R, so I would be concerned 
about noise in the second radio while transmitting on the first. Do you 
have a way to check this?  A second radio that can listen on other 
bands/antennas for weak signals while your tranmitting?


Thanks and 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

[Bill Frantz]

FWIW, I power my barefoot K3 with batteries and a solar charger. 
After our club county expedition for the California QSO Party 
(CQP) last year, I had a new appreciation for the way low power 
supply voltage could make a clean transmitter dirty.


To address this problem at home, I got a N8XJK Boost Regulator 
from TGE. This device boosts the battery voltage to the radio. 
Mine shows 13.9 volts, receive and 13.4 volts key down at 100W 
on 160M. I normally have it set up to only boost voltage when is 
senses RF output from the transmitter. (I need to talk on SSB 
before it cuts in.)


I have not noticed any RF noise on receive when I put it into 
"always on" mode. For a single radio setup, any RF noise it 
might make will be completely masked during transmit. We'll see 
how it works in multi-transmitter setups when I take to next 
year's CQP.


73 Bill AE6JV
---
Bill Frantz| Ham radio contesting is a| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | contact sport.   | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  - Ken Widelitz K6LA / VY2TT | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

[Jack Brindle]

If a power supply sags when lots of power is being drawn, it will affect 
whatever is trying to draw the power. For a transmitter / amplifier, that means 
the output power is most likely going to sag as well. The extent of the sag is 
directly related to how much the power supply sags, which, of course, depends 
on how well it is regulated. 

For the K3, we recommend well regulated power supplies with short supply leads. 
If the supply is rock solid and well regulated, you should see little voltage 
drop. Likewise, if you are using short, large wires from the supply to the K3, 
you will lose little power in that link. Remember that there is power loss in 
cable, and long skinny conductors will heat up and lose more power due to IIR 
losses than short fat wires. The K3 will try to correct power output 
variations, but if the supply / cabling problems won’t allow that, then it 
cannot. At the same time, it is quite possible the original poster needs to 
rework his power calibration (again). He had a major change in the components 
in his transceiver, and over time and use they will age and cause changes. For 
him, I suggest talking to customer support.

The second area is the KPA500. The HV supply is not heavily regulated, by 
design. It has a pair of very large capacitors on the supply, but when high 
power is being drawn, the output voltage will sag. This is quite normal. Thus 
at the start of a transmission the voltage will be high, as will transmitted 
output power, then will quickly sag to the nominal output value. This can also 
be affected by power cabling. Some operators may see more sag than they should 
due to long power cables. We usually see this with amplifiers plugged into 120V 
outlets. Make sure your 120V cable is large and as short as possible, AND make 
sure the 120V wall cabling is likewise large. I believe the NEC specifies 12 
gauge wire for outlets, my experience with that size is very good. If you can 
use a 240V supply for the KPA, then it is much better. As pointed out above, 
power losses in wire is I*I*R. Since current will be dropped in half when using 
240V over 120, the cable power losses will be one-quarter with 240 when 
compared to 120V.

Perhaps it might be time for some of us to perform their annual system check 
and maintenance, starting with the shack power supply? I’ll start this round 
with my own station today!

- Jack Brindle, W6FB


> On Mar 1, 2016, at 7:17 AM, Jim Sheldon <w...@cox.net> wrote:
> 
> Thanks David for posting this.  I noticed this from time to time with my old 
> K3 and now also with the new K3S.  I keep the KPA500 output set to around 
> 400-450 watts most of the time and notice spikes to 550 or so on the first or 
> second dit when sending CW at times.  I just built the kit and have done the 
> TX calibrations properly and they all passed via the Utility program.
> 
> I'm using the factory supplied #12 gauge power cable and the power supply is 
> a pretty well regulated MFJ 4245MV switcher (RFI quiet here).  This supply is 
> adjustable and evidently the meter isn't totally accurate or there is a 
> larger voltage drop in the cable than I thought there should be.  I checked 
> the K3S' meter display after receiving this email and it read 13.2 volts.  
> Keyed to 13.8 volts on the meter, but at 20 watts out, driving the amplifier, 
> it dropped to 12.6 volts while keyed.
> 
> In line with your findings, I set the MFJ supply to read 13.8 volts on the 
> K3S display and it now only drops to 13.3 volts under the 20 watt load.  The 
> occasional power spikes seem to have disappeared, so it's something everyone 
> should take a look at if they do experience the power spike problem.
> 
> Again, thanks for posting this David.
> 
> Jim - W0EB
> Park City, KS
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "David via Elecraft" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Sent: 3/1/2016 5:40:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power spikes
> 
>> My K3 s/n 4487 has exhibited similar behaviour since I built it in 2010.
>> Despite calls to Elecraft Support no solution was found despite Gary talking
>> me through various items until a month or so ago when the spike was causing
>> problems with my amp on 24 Mhz.  It was mentioned that the K3 must see 13
>> volts whenever it is transmitting and to check this on the front panel by
>> tapping the Display button. Mine showed 13.6 volts on receive and 12.6 volts
>> on Tx. Turned out my old power supply regulation was faulty. Anyway after a
>> power supply rebuild and further check it now shows 13.6 volts on receive
>> and 13.3 volts on Tx at 100 watts output. A further TX calibration completed
>> the process and so far no power spikes! So check your power supply is
>> 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

[lstavenhagen]

For what it's worth, I've found over the years that battery power is less
innocent than you'd think when powering electronics. Especially on a tired
or cheap battery with a high internal resistance - those can drop a
surprising amount of voltage under load with unexpected timing, etc. even
when fully charged and not heavily loaded. This can really wreak havoc with
things that need well-regulated steady power... 

So I'd agree that this should probably be trouble-shot on a good power
supply. The spiking behavior may not be something fully within Elecraft's
control...

73,
LS
W5QD



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[Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Power supply stability. Built cheep, get worse with time, insufficient heat
dissipation due to endless complaints about fan noise, cut corners on
components, too small wire to rig, yada, yada, ad nauseum. Power supply
issues can cause rig overheating, spikes, slow power build up, unstable
power output, audio distortion, hum, frequency drift, broad signals, even
key clicks, various issues with following amplifiers, just to get started
on a long list.

Plus the still-valid old timers' warning: ALWAYS do the work to RULE
OUT external issues -- connectors, cabling, coax, antennas, programs, power
supplies, misunderstanding or ignorance of the manual, power spike
scrambling memory, braine pharte, BEFORE tearing apart or sending rig back
to factory, or deprecating the manufacturer on public media.

Sticking to that rule over a lifetime will save 90 per cent of angst and
trouble relating to station apparent rig malfunctions.

73, Guy K2AV

On Tuesday, March 1, 2016, Bill Hammond via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> wrote:

> Hi John,
> My power dances all over the place (my serial number is 00069).  .



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

[dave]

I thought that one of the features of the K3/K3s was that it was able 
to run, and run well, off of batteries. These power spikes makes it 
sound like that is not the case? Or am I missing something?


Batteries start out at 12.6v and go down from there. The K3/K3s needs 
to run well down to something like 10.5 to 11v. But if they need at 
least 13v to prevent power spikes . . . .


73 de dave
ab9ca/4



On 3/1/16 9:30 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Bill,

Is there any way that you can increase the power supply voltage to
13.0 volts or more during transmit?  If so, that should help.
Most of my experience with power control is with the K2 which starts
out at lower than the requested power after a band change or a change
in power level, but quickly builds up to the requested power.  The
result is a lack of power spikes.
I figured that the K3 power control is similar, and if so, I would not
expect power spikes at all.  Perhaps the power control loop should be
investigated for critical damping.  If power spikes occur, that is an
indication that the control loop is underdamped.

If the control loop damping is the problem, it is possible that this
is not a problem for all K3s - the loop gain will may vary depending
on the gain of the transmit RF stages, and while one K3 may have this
problem, another may not (that is the case with the K2).  The RF Gain
also varies from band to band, so there may be a difference in that
behavior depending on what band is used.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/1/2016 10:12 AM, Bill Hammond via Elecraft wrote:

Hi John,
My power dances all over the place (my serial number is 00069).
Just had a quick QSO with the KPA500 indicating 560 watts at the
beginning and then going down to 480 at the end.  That is typical.
My 12 volt supply drops to 12.2 on transmit, 13.3 on receive.  I
have a long 12 volt  cable from the supply so  “I" squared losses
are understandable in the cable. Driving power from the K3 is
variable per band but typically set to 25 watts or so.  The QSO
described above was on 17 Meters and the drive is 25 watts there for
~500 watts out or just below after stabilization.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

[Don Wilhelm]

Bill,

Is there any way that you can increase the power supply voltage to 13.0 
volts or more during transmit?  If so, that should help.
Most of my experience with power control is with the K2 which starts out 
at lower than the requested power after a band change or a change in 
power level, but quickly builds up to the requested power.  The result 
is a lack of power spikes.
I figured that the K3 power control is similar, and if so, I would not 
expect power spikes at all.  Perhaps the power control loop should be 
investigated for critical damping.  If power spikes occur, that is an 
indication that the control loop is underdamped.


If the control loop damping is the problem, it is possible that this is 
not a problem for all K3s - the loop gain will may vary depending on the 
gain of the transmit RF stages, and while one K3 may have this problem, 
another may not (that is the case with the K2).  The RF Gain also varies 
from band to band, so there may be a difference in that behavior 
depending on what band is used.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/1/2016 10:12 AM, Bill Hammond via Elecraft wrote:

Hi John,
My power dances all over the place (my serial number is 00069).  Just had a quick 
QSO with the KPA500 indicating 560 watts at the beginning and then going down to 480 
at the end.  That is typical.  My 12 volt supply drops to 12.2 on transmit, 13.3 on 
receive.  I have a long 12 volt  cable from the supply so  “I" squared losses 
are understandable in the cable. Driving power from the K3 is variable per band but 
typically set to 25 watts or so.  The QSO described above was on 17 Meters and the 
drive is 25 watts there for ~500 watts out or just below after stabilization.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

[Wes]

Not to worry, my K3S does it too :-(

On Mar 1, 2016, at 8:12 AM, Bill Hammond via Elecraft 
 wrote:

> Hi John,
> My power dances all over the place (my serial number is 00069).  Just had a 
> quick QSO with the KPA500 indicating 560 watts at the beginning and then 
> going down to 480 at the end.  That is typical.  My 12 volt supply drops to 
> 12.2 on transmit, 13.3 on receive.  I have a long 12 volt  cable from the 
> supply so  “I" squared losses are understandable in the cable. Driving power 
> from the K3 is variable per band but typically set to 25 watts or so.  The 
> QSO described above was on 17 Meters and the drive is 25 watts there for ~500 
> watts out or just below after stabilization. 
> 
> I remember the power fluctuation issue being discussed years ago on this 
> reflector and it was explained that the power control uses a sampling and 
> feedback loop that takes “time” to stabilize.  That said, I believe we are 
> both experiencing some power fluctuation over 10% in a short period of time.  
> Depending on the amplifiers we are using this could cause real downstream 
> issues, like distorted signals, spurs or alarm faulting of smart amplifiers. 
> 
> Could we have some aging component that is aggravating this issue?  Our K3’s 
> are among the oldest on the air. 
> 
> 73,
> Bill-AK5X
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 29, 2016, at 2:24 PM, John K1JD  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> My K3 SN #071 was purchased new November 2007. It’s had a few mods/upgrades 
>> along the way and its firmware is current. 
>> 
>> Last Field Day 2015 at W5YA, the K3’s LPA failed after a close lightning 
>> strike. I was able to successfully repair the LPA replacing both discrete 
>> and SMD components. Performed a Pout calibration using the K3 Utility 
>> program afterward and it passed.
>> 
>> My 9500 amplifier (driven by the K3) has had a few instances of a high plate 
>> current faults since new in December 2010. These faults had been infrequent 
>> enough to ignore. More recently though the problems have been occurring more 
>> often. Swapping the tube did not help nor did careful inspection inside the 
>> amplifier reveal anything.
>> 
>> Evidence that the problem is related to the K3 and not the amplifier 
>> presented itself by accident a few days ago. I had the K3’s output set to 
>> 40w and the Alpha was off. I inadvertently bumped the key and noted an 
>> instantaneous output of 54w on the Powermaster II wattmeter. A few more 
>> dits, and the power output settled back to 40w. Hmmm… if the amplifier had 
>> been in line, the K3’s drive set for full legal limit and a first dit 
>> resulted in an additional 30% drive, a high plate current fault might 
>> certainly happen.
>> 
>> This morning I was using the KPA500 amp with my K3’s power set to 28 watts. 
>> After an early AM CW fix I left the station on, walked away and came back in 
>> a few hours hours. On first dit the KPA’s instantaneous power showed 650w on 
>> the Powermaster II and illuminated a red LED on the KPA500, then settled 
>> back down to <500w. 
>> 
>> OK, so it IS the K3 causing the problem BUT the power output spikes occur 
>> very infrequently. It’s difficult to nail down the cause or even the 
>> conditions under which the problem is most likely to occur. 
>> 
>> Reading the archives, others have had power spike issues over the years. Is 
>> there a known fix? I’ve looked briefly at Elecraft’s alerts and mods but 
>> nothing jumps out.
>> 
>> 73,
>> John K1JD
>> Santa Fe, NM
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

[Jim Sheldon]

Thanks David for posting this.  I noticed this from time to time with my 
old K3 and now also with the new K3S.  I keep the KPA500 output set to 
around 400-450 watts most of the time and notice spikes to 550 or so on 
the first or second dit when sending CW at times.  I just built the kit 
and have done the TX calibrations properly and they all passed via the 
Utility program.


I'm using the factory supplied #12 gauge power cable and the power 
supply is a pretty well regulated MFJ 4245MV switcher (RFI quiet here).  
This supply is adjustable and evidently the meter isn't totally accurate 
or there is a larger voltage drop in the cable than I thought there 
should be.  I checked the K3S' meter display after receiving this email 
and it read 13.2 volts.  Keyed to 13.8 volts on the meter, but at 20 
watts out, driving the amplifier, it dropped to 12.6 volts while keyed.


In line with your findings, I set the MFJ supply to read 13.8 volts on 
the K3S display and it now only drops to 13.3 volts under the 20 watt 
load.  The occasional power spikes seem to have disappeared, so it's 
something everyone should take a look at if they do experience the power 
spike problem.


Again, thanks for posting this David.

Jim - W0EB
Park City, KS

-- Original Message --
From: "David via Elecraft" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 3/1/2016 5:40:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

My K3 s/n 4487 has exhibited similar behaviour since I built it in 
2010.
Despite calls to Elecraft Support no solution was found despite Gary 
talking
me through various items until a month or so ago when the spike was 
causing
problems with my amp on 24 Mhz.  It was mentioned that the K3 must see 
13
volts whenever it is transmitting and to check this on the front panel 
by
tapping the Display button. Mine showed 13.6 volts on receive and 12.6 
volts
on Tx. Turned out my old power supply regulation was faulty. Anyway 
after a
power supply rebuild and further check it now shows 13.6 volts on 
receive
and 13.3 volts on Tx at 100 watts output. A further TX calibration 
completed

the process and so far no power spikes! So check your power supply is
supplying sufficient voltage on key down.

Dave G0AIX





---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

[Bill Hammond via Elecraft]

Hi John,
My power dances all over the place (my serial number is 00069).  Just had a 
quick QSO with the KPA500 indicating 560 watts at the beginning and then going 
down to 480 at the end.  That is typical.  My 12 volt supply drops to 12.2 on 
transmit, 13.3 on receive.  I have a long 12 volt  cable from the supply so  
“I" squared losses are understandable in the cable. Driving power from the K3 
is variable per band but typically set to 25 watts or so.  The QSO described 
above was on 17 Meters and the drive is 25 watts there for ~500 watts out or 
just below after stabilization. 

I remember the power fluctuation issue being discussed years ago on this 
reflector and it was explained that the power control uses a sampling and 
feedback loop that takes “time” to stabilize.  That said, I believe we are both 
experiencing some power fluctuation over 10% in a short period of time.  
Depending on the amplifiers we are using this could cause real downstream 
issues, like distorted signals, spurs or alarm faulting of smart amplifiers. 

Could we have some aging component that is aggravating this issue?  Our K3’s 
are among the oldest on the air. 

73,
Bill-AK5X



> On Feb 29, 2016, at 2:24 PM, John K1JD  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> My K3 SN #071 was purchased new November 2007. It’s had a few mods/upgrades 
> along the way and its firmware is current. 
> 
> Last Field Day 2015 at W5YA, the K3’s LPA failed after a close lightning 
> strike. I was able to successfully repair the LPA replacing both discrete and 
> SMD components. Performed a Pout calibration using the K3 Utility program 
> afterward and it passed.
> 
> My 9500 amplifier (driven by the K3) has had a few instances of a high plate 
> current faults since new in December 2010. These faults had been infrequent 
> enough to ignore. More recently though the problems have been occurring more 
> often. Swapping the tube did not help nor did careful inspection inside the 
> amplifier reveal anything.
> 
> Evidence that the problem is related to the K3 and not the amplifier 
> presented itself by accident a few days ago. I had the K3’s output set to 40w 
> and the Alpha was off. I inadvertently bumped the key and noted an 
> instantaneous output of 54w on the Powermaster II wattmeter. A few more dits, 
> and the power output settled back to 40w. Hmmm… if the amplifier had been in 
> line, the K3’s drive set for full legal limit and a first dit resulted in an 
> additional 30% drive, a high plate current fault might certainly happen.
> 
> This morning I was using the KPA500 amp with my K3’s power set to 28 watts. 
> After an early AM CW fix I left the station on, walked away and came back in 
> a few hours hours. On first dit the KPA’s instantaneous power showed 650w on 
> the Powermaster II and illuminated a red LED on the KPA500, then settled back 
> down to <500w. 
> 
> OK, so it IS the K3 causing the problem BUT the power output spikes occur 
> very infrequently. It’s difficult to nail down the cause or even the 
> conditions under which the problem is most likely to occur. 
> 
> Reading the archives, others have had power spike issues over the years. Is 
> there a known fix? I’ve looked briefly at Elecraft’s alerts and mods but 
> nothing jumps out.
> 
> 73,
> John K1JD
> Santa Fe, NM
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

[Nr4c]

I've noticed that the first time I TX with my KPA500 it will fault. Seems to 
settle down after that. May also spoke after band change. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 1, 2016, at 12:23 AM, Vic Rosenthal  wrote:
> 
> Hi john,
> I think I've seen this myself. I would redo the power calibration with the K3 
> utility and a good dummy load. I'm interested in hearing people's responses 
> to your question.
> 
> Vic 4X6GP
> 
>> On 29 Feb 2016, at 10:24 PM, John K1JD  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> My K3 SN #071 was purchased new November 2007. It’s had a few mods/upgrades 
>> along the way and its firmware is current. 
>> 
>> Last Field Day 2015 at W5YA, the K3’s LPA failed after a close lightning 
>> strike. I was able to successfully repair the LPA replacing both discrete 
>> and SMD components. Performed a Pout calibration using the K3 Utility 
>> program afterward and it passed.
>> 
>> My 9500 amplifier (driven by the K3) has had a few instances of a high plate 
>> current faults since new in December 2010. These faults had been infrequent 
>> enough to ignore. More recently though the problems have been occurring more 
>> often. Swapping the tube did not help nor did careful inspection inside the 
>> amplifier reveal anything.
>> 
>> Evidence that the problem is related to the K3 and not the amplifier 
>> presented itself by accident a few days ago. I had the K3’s output set to 
>> 40w and the Alpha was off. I inadvertently bumped the key and noted an 
>> instantaneous output of 54w on the Powermaster II wattmeter. A few more 
>> dits, and the power output settled back to 40w. Hmmm… if the amplifier had 
>> been in line, the K3’s drive set for full legal limit and a first dit 
>> resulted in an additional 30% drive, a high plate current fault might 
>> certainly happen.
>> 
>> This morning I was using the KPA500 amp with my K3’s power set to 28 watts. 
>> After an early AM CW fix I left the station on, walked away and came back in 
>> a few hours hours. On first dit the KPA’s instantaneous power showed 650w on 
>> the Powermaster II and illuminated a red LED on the KPA500, then settled 
>> back down to <500w. 
>> 
>> OK, so it IS the K3 causing the problem BUT the power output spikes occur 
>> very infrequently. It’s difficult to nail down the cause or even the 
>> conditions under which the problem is most likely to occur. 
>> 
>> Reading the archives, others have had power spike issues over the years. Is 
>> there a known fix? I’ve looked briefly at Elecraft’s alerts and mods but 
>> nothing jumps out.
>> 
>> 73,
>> John K1JD
>> Santa Fe,
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

[David via Elecraft]

My K3 s/n 4487 has exhibited similar behaviour since I built it in 2010.
Despite calls to Elecraft Support no solution was found despite Gary talking
me through various items until a month or so ago when the spike was causing
problems with my amp on 24 Mhz.  It was mentioned that the K3 must see 13
volts whenever it is transmitting and to check this on the front panel by
tapping the Display button. Mine showed 13.6 volts on receive and 12.6 volts
on Tx. Turned out my old power supply regulation was faulty. Anyway after a
power supply rebuild and further check it now shows 13.6 volts on receive
and 13.3 volts on Tx at 100 watts output. A further TX calibration completed
the process and so far no power spikes! So check your power supply is
supplying sufficient voltage on key down.

Dave G0AIX



--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-output-power-spikes-tp7614763p7614778.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

[Vic Rosenthal]

Hi john,
I think I've seen this myself. I would redo the power calibration with the K3 
utility and a good dummy load. I'm interested in hearing people's responses to 
your question.

Vic 4X6GP

> On 29 Feb 2016, at 10:24 PM, John K1JD  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> My K3 SN #071 was purchased new November 2007. It’s had a few mods/upgrades 
> along the way and its firmware is current. 
> 
> Last Field Day 2015 at W5YA, the K3’s LPA failed after a close lightning 
> strike. I was able to successfully repair the LPA replacing both discrete and 
> SMD components. Performed a Pout calibration using the K3 Utility program 
> afterward and it passed.
> 
> My 9500 amplifier (driven by the K3) has had a few instances of a high plate 
> current faults since new in December 2010. These faults had been infrequent 
> enough to ignore. More recently though the problems have been occurring more 
> often. Swapping the tube did not help nor did careful inspection inside the 
> amplifier reveal anything.
> 
> Evidence that the problem is related to the K3 and not the amplifier 
> presented itself by accident a few days ago. I had the K3’s output set to 40w 
> and the Alpha was off. I inadvertently bumped the key and noted an 
> instantaneous output of 54w on the Powermaster II wattmeter. A few more dits, 
> and the power output settled back to 40w. Hmmm… if the amplifier had been in 
> line, the K3’s drive set for full legal limit and a first dit resulted in an 
> additional 30% drive, a high plate current fault might certainly happen.
> 
> This morning I was using the KPA500 amp with my K3’s power set to 28 watts. 
> After an early AM CW fix I left the station on, walked away and came back in 
> a few hours hours. On first dit the KPA’s instantaneous power showed 650w on 
> the Powermaster II and illuminated a red LED on the KPA500, then settled back 
> down to <500w. 
> 
> OK, so it IS the K3 causing the problem BUT the power output spikes occur 
> very infrequently. It’s difficult to nail down the cause or even the 
> conditions under which the problem is most likely to occur. 
> 
> Reading the archives, others have had power spike issues over the years. Is 
> there a known fix? I’ve looked briefly at Elecraft’s alerts and mods but 
> nothing jumps out.
> 
> 73,
> John K1JD
> Santa Fe, NM
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[Elecraft] K3 output power spikes

[John K1JD]

Hi All,
My K3 SN #071 was purchased new November 2007. It’s had a few mods/upgrades 
along the way and its firmware is current. 

Last Field Day 2015 at W5YA, the K3’s LPA failed after a close lightning 
strike. I was able to successfully repair the LPA replacing both discrete and 
SMD components. Performed a Pout calibration using the K3 Utility program 
afterward and it passed.

My 9500 amplifier (driven by the K3) has had a few instances of a high plate 
current faults since new in December 2010. These faults had been infrequent 
enough to ignore. More recently though the problems have been occurring more 
often. Swapping the tube did not help nor did careful inspection inside the 
amplifier reveal anything.

Evidence that the problem is related to the K3 and not the amplifier presented 
itself by accident a few days ago. I had the K3’s output set to 40w and the 
Alpha was off. I inadvertently bumped the key and noted an instantaneous output 
of 54w on the Powermaster II wattmeter. A few more dits, and the power output 
settled back to 40w. Hmmm… if the amplifier had been in line, the K3’s drive 
set for full legal limit and a first dit resulted in an additional 30% drive, a 
high plate current fault might certainly happen.

This morning I was using the KPA500 amp with my K3’s power set to 28 watts. 
After an early AM CW fix I left the station on, walked away and came back in a 
few hours hours. On first dit the KPA’s instantaneous power showed 650w on the 
Powermaster II and illuminated a red LED on the KPA500, then settled back down 
to <500w. 

OK, so it IS the K3 causing the problem BUT the power output spikes occur very 
infrequently. It’s difficult to nail down the cause or even the conditions 
under which the problem is most likely to occur. 

Reading the archives, others have had power spike issues over the years. Is 
there a known fix? I’ve looked briefly at Elecraft’s alerts and mods but 
nothing jumps out.

73,
John K1JD
Santa Fe, NM




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