Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters

[Brian Hunt]

There was a time when one could email Elecraft support with the K3 serial 
number and they would send the factory Config file. Probably not 100% of the 
solution but it would be a start. 

73,
Brian, K0DTJ 

> On Oct 17, 2023, at 09:05, W3FPR  wrote:
> 
> Jim,
> 
> It is doubtful that will work if the K3 has been set to factory defaults by 
> EEINIT.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
>> On 10/17/2023 11:59 AM, Jim McCook wrote:
>> Dave,
>> 
>> Open the K3 Utility and click on Calibration.  Scroll down to Configure 
>> Crystal Filters.  The top line shows the various bandwidths of the installed 
>> filters.  You can see the big picture there with the checked boxes.
>>  Jim W6YA
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters

[W3FPR]

Jim,

It is doubtful that will work if the K3 has been set to factory defaults 
by EEINIT.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/17/2023 11:59 AM, Jim McCook wrote:

Dave,

Open the K3 Utility and click on Calibration.  Scroll down to 
Configure Crystal Filters.  The top line shows the various bandwidths 
of the installed filters.  You can see the big picture there with the 
checked boxes.

 Jim W6YA
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters

[Jim McCook]

Dave,

Open the K3 Utility and click on Calibration.  Scroll down to Configure 
Crystal Filters.  The top line shows the various bandwidths of the 
installed filters.  You can see the big picture there with the checked 
boxes.

 Jim W6YA
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters

[W3FPR]

Dave,

Remove the top cover - there should be a sticker either on the bottom of 
the top cover or on the top of the sub-RX showing the filters installed 
and the offsets if they are not the 8 pole filters.
If the sticker is not present (or is incorrect), then yes, you will have 
to remove the Sub-RX to see the filters in the main RX and remove the 
sub-RX cover to see the filters installed.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/16/2023 1:55 PM, Dave wrote:

I recently purchased another K3 that I believe was Factory Reset prior to the 
sale. Is there a way to determine which, if any, optional filters are installed 
without opening it up? It has the 2 meter xvtr and 2nd receiver installed and 
I’d prefer not to uninstall things.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters

[Michael Carter via Elecraft]

Hi Dave,

Without a saved CONFIG file, I don't think there
is a way to retrieve the filter settings directly from
the K3.  Have you tried examining the filter settings
for any information that is stored in a CONFIG file?
The K3 Utility permits viewing and editing stored
crystal filter settings.

You could try to visually inspect the filter bandwidths
using an audio spectrum analysis tool, but you would
have to turn off any DSP filtering to see the actual
IF crystal filter response at audio frequencies.  With
some effort you could distinguish 5-pole from 8-pole
filters using the transition band slopes, but estimating
-6 dB bandwidths should be more straightforward from
the displayed spectrum.  While a separate wideband
noise generator would be the best source, you might
have enough local wideband noise to obtain a reasonable
spectrum depiction over the crystal filter response width.

73,
Mike, K8CN


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[Elecraft] K3 Filters

[Dave]

I recently purchased another K3 that I believe was Factory Reset prior to the 
sale. Is there a way to determine which, if any, optional filters are installed 
without opening it up? It has the 2 meter xvtr and 2nd receiver installed and 
I’d prefer not to uninstall things.

Tnx es 73,
Dave N8AG 


Sent from Mail for Windows

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[Elecraft] K3 - filters for trade

[hg chapoton]

I have several each of 1.8hHz (KFL3A-1.8K) and 500Hz (KFL3A-500).

I would like to trade these for 250Hz (KFL3A-250) and 2.1kHz (KFLA-2.1K)
filters.

Any takers?

Please reply off list

greg/na8v
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for sale

[James Kvochick]

Filters are spoken for…

73

Jim K8JK

> On Oct 14, 2019, at 5:17 PM, Roberta Estes via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> Elecraft K3 filters surplus to my needs
> 
> KFL3A-2.8K (Elecraft Branded Inrad filter)  $80 shipped USPS
> 
> KFL3A-6K (Elecraft Branded Inrad Filter) $80 shipped USPS
> 
> KFL3B-FM (Elecraft Branded Inrad filter) $80 shipped USPS
> 
> Shipping included USPS Us locations only.
> 
> Paypal is acceptable as long as I receive the full amount (buyer pays 
> transaction fees if you feel you can’t send money as a gift)
> 
> First come first serve.
> 
> Contact me off list at k...@arrl.org <mailto:k...@arrl.org>
> 
> 73
> 
> Jim K8JK
> 
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[Elecraft] K3 Filters for sale

[Roberta Estes via Elecraft]

Elecraft K3 filters surplus to my needs

KFL3A-2.8K (Elecraft Branded Inrad filter)  $80 shipped USPS

KFL3A-6K (Elecraft Branded Inrad Filter) $80 shipped USPS

KFL3B-FM (Elecraft Branded Inrad filter) $80 shipped USPS

Shipping included USPS Us locations only.

Paypal is acceptable as long as I receive the full amount (buyer pays 
transaction fees if you feel you can’t send money as a gift)

First come first serve.

Contact me off list at k...@arrl.org <mailto:k...@arrl.org>

73

Jim K8JK

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[Elecraft] K3 filters sold

[Ken K6MR]

Thanks for the responses (and to Eric and Wayne for the bandwidth).

Ken K6MR


From: Ken K6MR 
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 5:16:38 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: K3 filters available

I have some K3 filters I don’t need:

(2) of the KFL3A-200   Fc = -0.98 and -0.94
(1) of the KFL3A-2.1K

$75 each shipped CONUS.  Paypal preferred.

Ken K6MR
k6mr -at- outlook.com


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 filters available

[Ken K6MR]

2.1K is sold.  (Tnx Terry N7BDL)

Ken K6MR

From: Ken K6MR<mailto:k...@outlook.com>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 17:17
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net<mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 filters available

I have some K3 filters I don’t need:

(2) of the KFL3A-200   Fc = -0.98 and -0.94
(1) of the KFL3A-2.1K

$75 each shipped CONUS.  Paypal preferred.

Ken K6MR
k6mr -at- outlook.com


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 filters available

[VE3WDM]

Hi Ken, I was just looking for the 500hz and 8 pole. 
Mike 



--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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[Elecraft] K3 filters available

[Ken K6MR]

I have some K3 filters I don’t need:

(2) of the KFL3A-200   Fc = -0.98 and -0.94
(1) of the KFL3A-2.1K

$75 each shipped CONUS.  Paypal preferred.

Ken K6MR
k6mr -at- outlook.com


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[Elecraft] K3 Filters for sale

[Glenn Haffly]

I have 2 KFL3A 250 filters for sale. Bought new never used and in original
packaging. Both are 8 pole Inrad.
Will sell both for $325 and I will ship.

Glenn K5ZE


Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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[Elecraft] K3 filters for sale

[Barry N1EU]

I have 2 each (matching pairs) of the following Elecraft K3 filters in
as-new condition:

KFL3A-1.8K   1.8KHz 8-pole
KFL3A-2.8K   2.8 kHz 8-pole
KFL3A-6K 6KHz AM / ESSB, 8-pole

Price is $115 for each filter plus $5 priority mail shipping per
order. Preference will be given to those wanting filter pairs or
multiple filters.

Thanks  73,
Barry N1EU
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for digital work

[Bill Breeden]

Dave,

I have 200 Hz and 400 Hz filters in my K3.  My K3 copies RTTY fine through the 
200 Hz filter.  That being said, I normally use the 400 Hz filter unless the 
band is crammed with signals during a contest.  The 200 Hz filter also reduces 
a the apparent signal to noise ratio between my ears when working CW on the low 
bands during very noisy conditions.

73,

Bill - NA5DX
 


Which two of the 200/250/400 and 500 hz filters are best for digital
use, primarily RTTY, both contests and dx.  I understand that for JT-65
and PSK the standard ssb filter, or even the AM filter is useable.  I am
concerned that the 200 hz might be too narrow for RTTY.  I work some CW
but almost no ssb.



73, Dave, K2YG


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for digital work

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 My K3 copies RTTY fine through the 200 Hz filter.

This is much like the old ads I worked 150 countries with my
Gotham vertical ...  When one tries to pass a FSK signal through
a too narrow filter it doesn't just stop working.  However, the
tight skirts of the filter cause the energy in the mark and space
channels to smear (pulse stretching) into the next bit period and
cause errors in decoding.

If one is trying to copy a strong, stable signal in the presence
of strong adjacent channel interference, the too narrow filter
may provide improved copy by reducing AGC capture from the QRM.
However, if one is trying to copy a weak signal with flutter or
selective fading in flat noise, copy will be much worse with the
too narrow filter.

Chen, W7AY has written a lot on FSK decoding.  I strongly recommend
his web site (and following some of the bibliography) for understanding
RTTY, required bandwidth and filters.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/29/2013 9:04 AM, Bill Breeden wrote:

Dave,

I have 200 Hz and 400 Hz filters in my K3.  My K3 copies RTTY fine
through the 200 Hz filter.  That being said, I normally use the 400 Hz
filter unless the band is crammed with signals during a contest.  The
200 Hz filter also reduces a the apparent signal to noise ratio between
my ears when working CW on the low bands during very noisy conditions.

73,

Bill - NA5DX



Which two of the 200/250/400 and 500 hz filters are best for digital
use, primarily RTTY, both contests and dx.  I understand that for JT-65
and PSK the standard ssb filter, or even the AM filter is useable.  I am
concerned that the 200 hz might be too narrow for RTTY.  I work some CW
but almost no ssb.



73, Dave, K2YG


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for digital work

[Jim Brown]

On 11/29/2013 6:25 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

 My K3 copies RTTY fine through the 200 Hz filter.

This is much like the old ads I worked 150 countries with my
Gotham vertical ...  When one tries to pass a FSK signal through
a too narrow filter it doesn't just stop working.  However, the
tight skirts of the filter cause the energy in the mark and space
channels to smear (pulse stretching) into the next bit period and
cause errors in decoding. 


Yes.  Those of us who worked extensively in pro audio in the last 30 or 
so years are well aware of the significance of the phase response of 
filters and systems. We learned, for example, that varying amplitude 
response has an associated variation in the phase response. Thus, I was 
quite wary of using the double humped response provided by the K3


Quoting from W7AY's website,  With a software demodulator that includes 
a matched filter or a raised cosine filter that matches the baud rate of 
the RTTY signal, the receiver's filter should be only as narrow as 
needed to keep interference from clipping the sound card. 


David Wicks, G3YYD, author of the new and highly regarded RTTY decoder 
called 2Tone, advises use of a filter no narrower than for RTTY 
decoding. I was not at all surprised to read it in his documentation.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for digital work

[Carl Clawson]

My first thought on seeing that was If that filter is such a great idea,
wouldn't it be built into the RTTY demodulator to begin with?

73, Carl WS7L

On Friday, November 29, 2013, Jim Brown wrote:

 Thus, I was quite wary of using the double humped response provided by
 the K3.

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[Elecraft] K3 Filters for digital work

[Dave Barr]

Which two of the 200/250/400 and 500 hz filters are best for digital 
use, primarily RTTY, both contests and dx.  I understand that for JT-65 
and PSK the standard ssb filter, or even the AM filter is useable.  I am 
concerned that the 200 hz might be too narrow for RTTY.  I work some CW 
but almost no ssb.


73, Dave, K2YG
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for digital work

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 I am concerned that the 200 hz might be too narrow for RTTY.

The 200 Hz filter is too narrow (mine measure about 190 Hz at -6dB).

The 250 Hz filter - nominally 370 Hz at -6dB - is a good match to
the minimum necessary bandwidth for MMTTY, 2-Tone, etc. to function
well (particularly if the DSP bandwidth is set for 400 Hz).

I generally use the 400 Hz filter (435 Hz @ -6dB nominal) with good
results.  If I had the 250 Hz filter I would pair it with the INRAD
500 Hz filter as the difference between the 400 (435 Hz) and 250 (370
Hz) are not enough to be significant.  The 500 Hz and 250 Hz filters
also make good narrow filter for PSK31 or JT65/JT9 if necessary to
get rid of strong interfering signals on the other end of the
passband.

 I work some CW but almost no ssb.

If you work no SSB but do work CW and data modes, you might consider
the 1000 Hz (Wide CW/DATA), 500 INRAD (normal CW/RTTY) and 250
(optimum RTTY) filters.  Unless you do a lot of very weak CW in
very crowded bands (DX contests) and need the 200 Hz for CW, I would
consider 500 Hz INRAD and 250 Hz the best all around combination.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/27/2013 12:58 PM, Dave Barr wrote:

Which two of the 200/250/400 and 500 hz filters are best for digital
use, primarily RTTY, both contests and dx.  I understand that for JT-65
and PSK the standard ssb filter, or even the AM filter is useable.  I am
concerned that the 200 hz might be too narrow for RTTY.  I work some CW
but almost no ssb.

73, Dave, K2YG
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for digital work

[Bill Frantz]

I have a 250 Hz filter I use for PSK and RTTY. It helps when 
there is a strong nearby station that overloads the AtoD 
converter between the K3 and my computer. During a RTTY contest, 
I found it helped, but the dual frequency DSP RTTY filter was 
more than enough for most contacts.


When I use the filter with PSK, I lose the computer waterfall 
and the computer noise reduction because of the narrow 
bandwidth. I use full bandwidth to scan for signals and the 250 
filter after establishing contact. Usually a narrow filter works 
better than the computer noise reduction.


I would worry about 200 Hz for RTTY. While the deviation is 
nominally 170 Hz, there is energy out wider than that which may 
be affected by the skirts of the 200 Hz filter.


IMHO, RTTY is like AM -- a classic mode which uses more 
bandwidth than necessary, but is nice to keep around for 
nostalgia and to relive history.


Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

On 11/27/13 at 9:58 AM, record...@verizon.net (Dave Barr) wrote:

Which two of the 200/250/400 and 500 hz filters are best for 
digital use, primarily RTTY, both contests and dx.  I 
understand that for JT-65 and PSK the standard ssb filter, or 
even the AM filter is useable.  I am concerned that the 200 hz 
might be too narrow for RTTY.  I work some CW but almost no ssb.


---
Bill Frantz| If the site is supported by  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | ads, you are the product.| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for digital work

[Mike Harris]

I work quite a bit of RTTY and have 223 DXCC using only the stock 2k7Hz 
filter squeezed down to 2k0 with DSP for general tuning and running the 
split channel on a DXped.  The 500hz five pole is used for the DX 
station and if I'm handing out a few points in an RTTY contest and need 
to suppress nearby strong signals.


The stock 2k7Hz is used when I'm at the sharp end running split and need 
to see the spread in the waterfall.


FWIW.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

On 27/11/2013 14:58, Dave Barr wrote:

Which two of the 200/250/400 and 500 hz filters are best for digital
use, primarily RTTY, both contests and dx.  I understand that for JT-65
and PSK the standard ssb filter, or even the AM filter is useable.  I am
concerned that the 200 hz might be too narrow for RTTY.  I work some CW
but almost no ssb.

73, Dave, K2YG

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for digital work

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

IMHO, RTTY is like AM -- a classic mode which uses more bandwidth
than necessary, but is nice to keep around for nostalgia and to
relive history.


RTTY is not like AM in using more bandwidth than necessary.  *ANY*
FSK signal will have a minimum bandwidth (as defined by ITU) of
(1.2 * shift + baud rate).  For 45.45 baud, 170 Hz shift (traditional
RTTY) that works out to about 250 Hz

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/27/2013 2:00 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:

I have a 250 Hz filter I use for PSK and RTTY. It helps when there is a
strong nearby station that overloads the AtoD converter between the K3
and my computer. During a RTTY contest, I found it helped, but the dual
frequency DSP RTTY filter was more than enough for most contacts.

When I use the filter with PSK, I lose the computer waterfall and the
computer noise reduction because of the narrow bandwidth. I use full
bandwidth to scan for signals and the 250 filter after establishing
contact. Usually a narrow filter works better than the computer noise
reduction.

I would worry about 200 Hz for RTTY. While the deviation is nominally
170 Hz, there is energy out wider than that which may be affected by the
skirts of the 200 Hz filter.

IMHO, RTTY is like AM -- a classic mode which uses more bandwidth than
necessary, but is nice to keep around for nostalgia and to relive history.

Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

On 11/27/13 at 9:58 AM, record...@verizon.net (Dave Barr) wrote:


Which two of the 200/250/400 and 500 hz filters are best for digital
use, primarily RTTY, both contests and dx.  I understand that for
JT-65 and PSK the standard ssb filter, or even the AM filter is
useable.  I am concerned that the 200 hz might be too narrow for
RTTY.  I work some CW but almost no ssb.


---
Bill Frantz| If the site is supported by  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | ads, you are the product.| 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Bob,

On 10/8/2013 10:28 AM, Bob wrote:
 Hi Joe,


I disagree with your adamant public statement as the -10 dB points
even with the filter center shifted up to 2000 Hz are at 300 Hz and
3800 Hz -- That's 3500 Hz edge to edge, not 4000.


I believe your measurements are incorrect.  Using an XG3 at -73 dBm
for a signal source and an audio spectrum analyzer connected to the
Line Out of K3 S/N 622 with an *unmodified* DPS board and original
transformers on the KIO3, the audio is -4 dB at 300 Hz/-15 dB at 200
Hz and -5dB at 4000 Hz/-14 dB a 4200 Hz.

Put another way, the measured -6dB points are 263 - 4016 Hz (BW[6 dB]
= 3753 Hz) and measured -10dB points are 222 - 4142 Hz (BW [10dB] =
3920 Hz).  Those numbers are close enough to 4 KHz for me to be adamant
that the K3 works very well in broadband mode with either the FM or
AM filters in WSJT-X.

Moving the LF limit down to 50 Hz as in the case of SSB isn't going to
make a significant difference because the transformers have a good deal
of effect there.  Duplicating the LF measurement in SSB with LO=0.00
moves the -10dB point down by only 50 Hz (170 Hz).

That the K3 is down less than 6dB at 4KHz is the key - could it be a
bit better, yes but at what cost?  Audio frequencies below 300 Hz have
little value for WSJT-X receive (they're more than -1KHz from the old
1270 Hz 0 dF) and even with the roll off WSJT-X performs very well
at -200 Hz.  Split handles any transmit bandwidth issues in any case.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 10/8/2013 10:28 AM, Bob wrote:

Hi Joe,

I disagree with your adamant public statement as the -10 dB points even
with the filter center shifted up to 2000 Hz are at 300 Hz and 3800 Hz --
That's 3500 Hz edge to edge, not 4000.  This has also been confirmed by
Lyle himself, who agrees that widening the bandwidth 400-600 HZ would be a
good thing to do.

I've also confirmed this with two other K3 owners.  If your DSP response is
wider then consider yourself lucky because others don't experience the same
thing.

73, Bob, WB4SON


On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote:



On 10/7/2013 4:39 PM, Bob wrote:


Just be aware that current DSP firmware in the K3 limits the receive
bandwidth to something around 3400 Hz. So even if you have a wider
filter, like the 6 KHz AM filter, you will not be able to utilize the
full 4 KHz bandwidth of WSJT-X for JT65/MT9 modes.



Absolutely *not* true ... I regularly receive 200 to 2400 Hz in DATA A
with the FM (or AM) filter.  It is simply a matter of adjusting the
High and Low cut frequencies to 200/4200 or shift/Width to 2200/4000.

I have been doing that ever since K1JT offered me a pre-release look
at the wideband decoding support in WSJT-X with no issues other than
some CAT problems with the interface to CI-V Commander from DXLab
Suite which K1JT and AA6YQ resolved quite quickly.

73,

... Joe, W4TV



On 10/7/2013 4:39 PM, Bob wrote:


Just be aware that current DSP firmware in the K3 limits the receive
bandwidth to something around 3400 Hz.  So even if you have a wider
filter,
like the 6 KHz AM filter, you will not be able to utilize the full 4 KHz
bandwidth of WSJT-X for JT65/MT9 modes.

Lyle is aware of this issue and it is on his list to work on in the
future.

And even if you are in Split mode, rest assured that you know exactly
where
you are transmitting -- on the exact audio offset indicated on the
display.
   Operating Split is the way to go.  The only drawback I've seen is that
WSJT-X does nothing to make sure the K3 is in the Split mode, it just
assumes it is.

73, Bob, WB4SON
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Brian Alsop]

I wonder if someone who has significant WSJT-X experience would like to 
pontificate of the real benefit of squeezing out another KHz of 
bandwidth out?


It seems to me on HF one is simply inviting in more signals which can 
potentially de-sense the RX.  That wipes out the benefit of the weak 
signal mode.  I really doubt these band segment is devoid of users of 
different high power modes.


Maybe WSJT-X is magic


73 de Brian/K3KO

On 10/8/2013 15:34, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


Bob,

On 10/8/2013 10:28 AM, Bob wrote:
  Hi Joe,
 

I disagree with your adamant public statement as the -10 dB points
even with the filter center shifted up to 2000 Hz are at 300 Hz and
3800 Hz -- That's 3500 Hz edge to edge, not 4000.


I believe your measurements are incorrect.  Using an XG3 at -73 dBm
for a signal source and an audio spectrum analyzer connected to the
Line Out of K3 S/N 622 with an *unmodified* DPS board and original
transformers on the KIO3, the audio is -4 dB at 300 Hz/-15 dB at 200
Hz and -5dB at 4000 Hz/-14 dB a 4200 Hz.

Put another way, the measured -6dB points are 263 - 4016 Hz (BW[6 dB]
= 3753 Hz) and measured -10dB points are 222 - 4142 Hz (BW [10dB] =
3920 Hz).  Those numbers are close enough to 4 KHz for me to be adamant
that the K3 works very well in broadband mode with either the FM or
AM filters in WSJT-X.

Moving the LF limit down to 50 Hz as in the case of SSB isn't going to
make a significant difference because the transformers have a good deal
of effect there.  Duplicating the LF measurement in SSB with LO=0.00
moves the -10dB point down by only 50 Hz (170 Hz).

That the K3 is down less than 6dB at 4KHz is the key - could it be a
bit better, yes but at what cost?  Audio frequencies below 300 Hz have
little value for WSJT-X receive (they're more than -1KHz from the old
1270 Hz 0 dF) and even with the roll off WSJT-X performs very well
at -200 Hz.  Split handles any transmit bandwidth issues in any case.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 10/8/2013 10:28 AM, Bob wrote:

Hi Joe,

I disagree with your adamant public statement as the -10 dB points even
with the filter center shifted up to 2000 Hz are at 300 Hz and 3800 Hz --
That's 3500 Hz edge to edge, not 4000.  This has also been confirmed by
Lyle himself, who agrees that widening the bandwidth 400-600 HZ would
be a
good thing to do.

I've also confirmed this with two other K3 owners.  If your DSP
response is
wider then consider yourself lucky because others don't experience the
same
thing.

73, Bob, WB4SON


On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com
wrote:



On 10/7/2013 4:39 PM, Bob wrote:


Just be aware that current DSP firmware in the K3 limits the receive
bandwidth to something around 3400 Hz. So even if you have a wider
filter, like the 6 KHz AM filter, you will not be able to utilize the
full 4 KHz bandwidth of WSJT-X for JT65/MT9 modes.



Absolutely *not* true ... I regularly receive 200 to 2400 Hz in DATA A
with the FM (or AM) filter.  It is simply a matter of adjusting the
High and Low cut frequencies to 200/4200 or shift/Width to 2200/4000.

I have been doing that ever since K1JT offered me a pre-release look
at the wideband decoding support in WSJT-X with no issues other than
some CAT problems with the interface to CI-V Commander from DXLab
Suite which K1JT and AA6YQ resolved quite quickly.

73,

... Joe, W4TV



On 10/7/2013 4:39 PM, Bob wrote:


Just be aware that current DSP firmware in the K3 limits the receive
bandwidth to something around 3400 Hz.  So even if you have a wider
filter,
like the 6 KHz AM filter, you will not be able to utilize the full 4
KHz
bandwidth of WSJT-X for JT65/MT9 modes.

Lyle is aware of this issue and it is on his list to work on in the
future.

And even if you are in Split mode, rest assured that you know exactly
where
you are transmitting -- on the exact audio offset indicated on the
display.
   Operating Split is the way to go.  The only drawback I've seen is
that
WSJT-X does nothing to make sure the K3 is in the Split mode, it just
assumes it is.

73, Bob, WB4SON
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Bob]

I wonder if someone who has significant WSJT-X experience would like to
pontificate of the real benefit of squeezing out another KHz of bandwidth
out?

Certainly no expert here, but the slightly wider bandwidth does allow a
WSJT-X user to copy the full suggested sub-bands for both JT65 and JT9 at
the same time.  While, to your point, that might not be the wisest thing to
do on 20 meters during a contest when folks tend to ignore the suggested
band plans, many times on the WARC bands there are no strong signals to
worry about.

So the bottom line is when it is appropriate, you can use it, and when it
isn't you can always shift to a more narrow roofing filter and focus on one
mode vs the other.  It's simply an option.

The ability of JT65 and JT9 to decode signals below the noise level is the
closest thing to magic that I've come across in my ham experience, allowing
extremely low power communication to be accomplished with sub-optimal
antennas.  I can work Australia, half way around the world, regularly with
0.5 watts of output  But it isn't magic, just applied mathematics.  And
there is no denying there is something almost magical about decoding a
signal that you can't even hear.

73, Bob, WB4SON
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Frank Precissi]

On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:35 AM, Bob wb4...@gmail.com wrote:

  But it isn't magic, just applied mathematics.


To most of us, that is considered magic!

Frank
KG6EYC

-- 
CW: NAQCC #6554 | SKCC #10435 | FISTS #16155 | SOC #1038 | FPQRP #3186
Digital: FHC #4224 | 30MDG #6370 | DMC #5698
Gear: K3 #7164 | KX3 #1787
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 It seems to me on HF one is simply inviting in more signals which can
 potentially de-sense the RX.  That wipes out the benefit of the weak
 signal mode.  I really doubt these band segment is devoid of users of
 different high power modes.

Yes and no ... there are occasional issues with a high power (or local
medium power) user.  However, when the K3 is run with AGC off there is
typically 70 to 80 dB of dynamic range between the no signal band
noise floor and an S9+20 dB signal.  As long as the sound card does not
clip on the loudest signal - or the loudest signal does not drive the
K3 into the hardware AGC range - there will not be a problem.

If there is a signal that drives the K3 into hardware AGC or is loud
enough to cause the sound card to clip, one can always dial in a
narrow IF filter unless the interfering signal is on top of the
desired signal.  In that regard JT65/JT9 are no different than CW or
RTTY ... use the tools your transceiver gives you.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 10/8/2013 11:54 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:

I wonder if someone who has significant WSJT-X experience would like to
pontificate of the real benefit of squeezing out another KHz of
bandwidth out?

It seems to me on HF one is simply inviting in more signals which can
potentially de-sense the RX.  That wipes out the benefit of the weak
signal mode.  I really doubt these band segment is devoid of users of
different high power modes.

Maybe WSJT-X is magic


73 de Brian/K3KO

On 10/8/2013 15:34, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


Bob,

On 10/8/2013 10:28 AM, Bob wrote:
  Hi Joe,
 

I disagree with your adamant public statement as the -10 dB points
even with the filter center shifted up to 2000 Hz are at 300 Hz and
3800 Hz -- That's 3500 Hz edge to edge, not 4000.


I believe your measurements are incorrect.  Using an XG3 at -73 dBm
for a signal source and an audio spectrum analyzer connected to the
Line Out of K3 S/N 622 with an *unmodified* DPS board and original
transformers on the KIO3, the audio is -4 dB at 300 Hz/-15 dB at 200
Hz and -5dB at 4000 Hz/-14 dB a 4200 Hz.

Put another way, the measured -6dB points are 263 - 4016 Hz (BW[6 dB]
= 3753 Hz) and measured -10dB points are 222 - 4142 Hz (BW [10dB] =
3920 Hz).  Those numbers are close enough to 4 KHz for me to be adamant
that the K3 works very well in broadband mode with either the FM or
AM filters in WSJT-X.

Moving the LF limit down to 50 Hz as in the case of SSB isn't going to
make a significant difference because the transformers have a good deal
of effect there.  Duplicating the LF measurement in SSB with LO=0.00
moves the -10dB point down by only 50 Hz (170 Hz).

That the K3 is down less than 6dB at 4KHz is the key - could it be a
bit better, yes but at what cost?  Audio frequencies below 300 Hz have
little value for WSJT-X receive (they're more than -1KHz from the old
1270 Hz 0 dF) and even with the roll off WSJT-X performs very well
at -200 Hz.  Split handles any transmit bandwidth issues in any case.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 10/8/2013 10:28 AM, Bob wrote:

Hi Joe,

I disagree with your adamant public statement as the -10 dB points even
with the filter center shifted up to 2000 Hz are at 300 Hz and 3800
Hz --
That's 3500 Hz edge to edge, not 4000.  This has also been confirmed by
Lyle himself, who agrees that widening the bandwidth 400-600 HZ would
be a
good thing to do.

I've also confirmed this with two other K3 owners.  If your DSP
response is
wider then consider yourself lucky because others don't experience the
same
thing.

73, Bob, WB4SON


On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com
wrote:



On 10/7/2013 4:39 PM, Bob wrote:


Just be aware that current DSP firmware in the K3 limits the receive
bandwidth to something around 3400 Hz. So even if you have a wider
filter, like the 6 KHz AM filter, you will not be able to utilize the
full 4 KHz bandwidth of WSJT-X for JT65/MT9 modes.



Absolutely *not* true ... I regularly receive 200 to 2400 Hz in DATA A
with the FM (or AM) filter.  It is simply a matter of adjusting the
High and Low cut frequencies to 200/4200 or shift/Width to 2200/4000.

I have been doing that ever since K1JT offered me a pre-release look
at the wideband decoding support in WSJT-X with no issues other than
some CAT problems with the interface to CI-V Commander from DXLab
Suite which K1JT and AA6YQ resolved quite quickly.

73,

... Joe, W4TV



On 10/7/2013 4:39 PM, Bob wrote:


Just be aware that current DSP firmware in the K3 limits the receive
bandwidth to something around 3400 Hz.  So even if you have a wider
filter,
like the 6 KHz AM filter, you will not be able to utilize the full 4
KHz
bandwidth of WSJT-X for JT65/MT9 modes.

Lyle is aware of this issue and it is on his list to work on in the
future.

And even if you are in Split mode, rest assured that you know exactly
where
you are transmitting -- on the exact audio offset indicated on the
display.
   Operating Split is the way to go.  The only drawback I've 

Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Michael Jensen]

Hi 

Thanks for the reply 

Yes I can transmit using the split options. For 2 reasons I would like
different approach with a wideband TX. 

First of all I am interfacing through HRD. That way the split are not
implemented to my understanding. 
Then I really like to know exactly where i transmit. Using the split the
only indication I get is that the frequency in the b VFO. But i am not able
to see if i am actually doing TX on A or B VFO during a TX cycle. 


73 de OZ1BZJ

Michael 



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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Oliver Dröse]

Hi Michael,

when in Split mode you always TX on the VFO B frequency. Besides this there 
is a small arrow either above or below the TX symbol on the display pointing 
to the VFO choosen for transmit. ;-)


73, Olli - DH8BQA



- Original Message - 
From: Michael Jensen m...@the-jensen-dk.net

To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF



Hi

Thanks for the reply

Yes I can transmit using the split options. For 2 reasons I would like
different approach with a wideband TX.

First of all I am interfacing through HRD. That way the split are not
implemented to my understanding.
Then I really like to know exactly where i transmit. Using the split the
only indication I get is that the frequency in the b VFO. But i am not 
able

to see if i am actually doing TX on A or B VFO during a TX cycle.


73 de OZ1BZJ

Michael



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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 Yes I can transmit using the split options. For 2 reasons I would like
 different approach with a wideband TX.

Unfortunately the K3 *can not* do wideband TX ... the DSP modulator
is limited to 200 - 2800 Hz when in DATA mode.  There is no alternative
as ESSB modulation is not supported in DATA mode - regardless of which
filters are installed.

 First of all I am interfacing through HRD. That way the split are not
 implemented to my understanding.

Then you need to put pressure on the developers of HRD to fix the
problems with split so it operates correctly.

The alternative is to use narrow band with WSJT-X - disable split 
(untick Split TX in Config) and leave the default frequencies as they

are for JT65A.  Then click the +2 KHz box to QSY both transmit and
receive up 2 KHz for JT9.  It is possible to monitor the entire 4 KHz
in wideband receive then simply select +2 KHz to QSY when operating
JT9.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 10/7/2013 4:11 PM, Michael Jensen wrote:

Hi

Thanks for the reply

Yes I can transmit using the split options. For 2 reasons I would like
different approach with a wideband TX.

First of all I am interfacing through HRD. That way the split are not
implemented to my understanding.
Then I really like to know exactly where i transmit. Using the split the
only indication I get is that the frequency in the b VFO. But i am not able
to see if i am actually doing TX on A or B VFO during a TX cycle.


73 de OZ1BZJ

Michael



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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Bob]

Just be aware that current DSP firmware in the K3 limits the receive
bandwidth to something around 3400 Hz.  So even if you have a wider filter,
like the 6 KHz AM filter, you will not be able to utilize the full 4 KHz
bandwidth of WSJT-X for JT65/MT9 modes.

Lyle is aware of this issue and it is on his list to work on in the future.

And even if you are in Split mode, rest assured that you know exactly where
you are transmitting -- on the exact audio offset indicated on the display.
 Operating Split is the way to go.  The only drawback I've seen is that
WSJT-X does nothing to make sure the K3 is in the Split mode, it just
assumes it is.

73, Bob, WB4SON
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 10/7/2013 4:39 PM, Bob wrote:

Just be aware that current DSP firmware in the K3 limits the receive
bandwidth to something around 3400 Hz. So even if you have a wider
filter, like the 6 KHz AM filter, you will not be able to utilize the
full 4 KHz bandwidth of WSJT-X for JT65/MT9 modes.


Absolutely *not* true ... I regularly receive 200 to 2400 Hz in DATA A
with the FM (or AM) filter.  It is simply a matter of adjusting the
High and Low cut frequencies to 200/4200 or shift/Width to 2200/4000.

I have been doing that ever since K1JT offered me a pre-release look
at the wideband decoding support in WSJT-X with no issues other than
some CAT problems with the interface to CI-V Commander from DXLab
Suite which K1JT and AA6YQ resolved quite quickly.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 10/7/2013 4:39 PM, Bob wrote:

Just be aware that current DSP firmware in the K3 limits the receive
bandwidth to something around 3400 Hz.  So even if you have a wider filter,
like the 6 KHz AM filter, you will not be able to utilize the full 4 KHz
bandwidth of WSJT-X for JT65/MT9 modes.

Lyle is aware of this issue and it is on his list to work on in the future.

And even if you are in Split mode, rest assured that you know exactly where
you are transmitting -- on the exact audio offset indicated on the display.
  Operating Split is the way to go.  The only drawback I've seen is that
WSJT-X does nothing to make sure the K3 is in the Split mode, it just
assumes it is.

73, Bob, WB4SON
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Michael Jensen]

Hi Olli

Thanks for the reply

Well yes the SW tells my radio that it should TX on the B VFO. But then 
again it is SW. A piece of programming that should work on 10 of 
combinations of different PC HW and several OS. Nothing that you could 
test in all combinations. 15 years of working with production and the 
related automation involving a lot of SW have learned me to be 
sceptical. IT mostly works yes, but  sometime not. Right now i have no 
indication that it works or not. My K3 do indeed display an arrow 
pointing toward the A VFO, but it do dot change to B VFO during TX 
despite the fact that TX are on the B VFO frequency.  So the arrow on 
the K3 seems not to change when a VFO B TX are initiated via CAT.


Before we get there, yes i know that there are plenty of SW (Firmware) 
in the K3 as well. But the number of input possible and the number of 
configurations are limited and there for possible to test and have been 
very well tested by Elecraft and the K3 community.


I am sure the WSJT-X are a very well designed piece of SW and i am 
indeed very happy using it. I just like to be sure where i put an signal 
on the air.


73 de OZ1BZJ

Michael

.
Den 07-10-2013 22:28, Oliver Dröse skrev:

Hi Michael,

when in Split mode you always TX on the VFO B frequency. Besides this 
there is a small arrow either above or below the TX symbol on the 
display pointing to the VFO choosen for transmit. ;-)


73, Olli - DH8BQA



- Original Message - From: Michael Jensen 
m...@the-jensen-dk.net

To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF




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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 Absolutely *not* true ... I regularly receive 200 to 2400 Hz in DATA A
 with the FM (or AM) filter.

Correction ... 200 to 4200 Hz


73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 10/7/2013 4:51 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


On 10/7/2013 4:39 PM, Bob wrote:

Just be aware that current DSP firmware in the K3 limits the receive
bandwidth to something around 3400 Hz. So even if you have a wider
filter, like the 6 KHz AM filter, you will not be able to utilize the
full 4 KHz bandwidth of WSJT-X for JT65/MT9 modes.


Absolutely *not* true ... I regularly receive 200 to 2400 Hz in DATA A
with the FM (or AM) filter.  It is simply a matter of adjusting the
High and Low cut frequencies to 200/4200 or shift/Width to 2200/4000.

I have been doing that ever since K1JT offered me a pre-release look
at the wideband decoding support in WSJT-X with no issues other than
some CAT problems with the interface to CI-V Commander from DXLab
Suite which K1JT and AA6YQ resolved quite quickly.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 10/7/2013 4:39 PM, Bob wrote:

Just be aware that current DSP firmware in the K3 limits the receive
bandwidth to something around 3400 Hz.  So even if you have a wider
filter,
like the 6 KHz AM filter, you will not be able to utilize the full 4 KHz
bandwidth of WSJT-X for JT65/MT9 modes.

Lyle is aware of this issue and it is on his list to work on in the
future.

And even if you are in Split mode, rest assured that you know exactly
where
you are transmitting -- on the exact audio offset indicated on the
display.
  Operating Split is the way to go.  The only drawback I've seen is that
WSJT-X does nothing to make sure the K3 is in the Split mode, it just
assumes it is.

73, Bob, WB4SON
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Charlie T, K3ICH]

I believe that figure of 3400 Hz is the AUDIO bandwidth which is equivalent 
to an AM bandwidth twice that, or 6.8 kHz.  If I am correct, then you can 
most certainly take advantage of your 6 kHz AM filter which will limit your 
broadcast audio bandwidth to 3.0 kHz.  The 15 kHz filter will get you an 
extra 400 Hz.of audio, but is probably not practical due to the excessive 
bandwidth.  Save that one for FM.


73, Charlie k3ICH



On 10/7/2013 4:51 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


On 10/7/2013 4:39 PM, Bob wrote:

Just be aware that current DSP firmware in the K3 limits the receive
bandwidth to something around 3400 Hz. So even if you have a wider
filter, like the 6 KHz AM filter, you will not be able to utilize the
full 4 KHz bandwidth of WSJT-X for JT65/MT9 modes.




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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

If I am correct, then you can most certainly take advantage of your 6
kHz AM filter which will limit your broadcast audio bandwidth to 3.0
kHz.


That only applies in AM transmit because of the double sideband nature
of AM.  If you use the 6 KHZ filter for SSB/ESSB/DATA receive, the
entire filter passband is used for one sideband ... one edge of the
filter is placed at 50 Hz in SSB/ESSB or 200 Hz in DATA and the other
edge of the filter is 6+ KHz away from the carrier ... more than enough
for the 4200 Hz HF limit in the DSP.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 10/7/2013 7:31 PM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:

I believe that figure of 3400 Hz is the AUDIO bandwidth which is
equivalent to an AM bandwidth twice that, or 6.8 kHz.  If I am correct,
then you can most certainly take advantage of your 6 kHz AM filter which
will limit your broadcast audio bandwidth to 3.0 kHz.  The 15 kHz filter
will get you an extra 400 Hz.of audio, but is probably not practical due
to the excessive bandwidth.  Save that one for FM.

73, Charlie k3ICH



On 10/7/2013 4:51 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


On 10/7/2013 4:39 PM, Bob wrote:

Just be aware that current DSP firmware in the K3 limits the receive
bandwidth to something around 3400 Hz. So even if you have a wider
filter, like the 6 KHz AM filter, you will not be able to utilize the
full 4 KHz bandwidth of WSJT-X for JT65/MT9 modes.




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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Don Wilhelm]

BUT,

The filter that must be specified for DATA mode TX is the 2.7 (or 2.8) 
kHz filter.  You cannot use the wider filters for DATA mode transmit - 
the firmware prevents it (unless you lie to the K3 about which filter is 
which width).  You can use a wider filter for receive, but that does not 
help transmit.  The transmit audio width is fixed by the DSP, so a wider 
filter will not increase that limit.


What is wrong with using the split arrangement that is provided by the 
computer software - no work-arounds needed, it makes everything 
seamless, and can automatically put the K3 into split mode.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/7/2013 7:31 PM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:
I believe that figure of 3400 Hz is the AUDIO bandwidth which is 
equivalent to an AM bandwidth twice that, or 6.8 kHz.  If I am 
correct, then you can most certainly take advantage of your 6 kHz AM 
filter which will limit your broadcast audio bandwidth to 3.0 kHz.  
The 15 kHz filter will get you an extra 400 Hz.of audio, but is 
probably not practical due to the excessive bandwidth.  Save that one 
for FM.




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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Michael Jensen]

Hi 

I am right now using this exact setup with WSJTX. 
I do get the about 400Hz to 4200 on the waterfall, but TX are an issue. 
As i guess the K3 transmit through the 2,8 Khz. filter when ever i try to
work a JT9 QSO above 3,0 Khz on the waterfall i do not see any audio output.
I have been looking for a way to TX through the AM filter but have not found
the way. 

Any hints please ? 


Thanks in advance 

73 De OZ1BZJ
Michael 



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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[dberkley]

I don't have a solution for wideband transmit (since I don't own a K3) 
but there is a simple fix: Run split.  That way, the software will keep 
the transmit close to 1500 Hz by offsetting the QRG automatically.  You 
can use the full receive bandwidth and the software will take care of 
keeping the transmit in range.

I use this on my K2 and it is great.  You just have to set it in the 
WSJT-X settings and make sure the K3 is set in split mode.  On the K2, 
split is reset each time the transceiver is power cycled so I have to be 
sure to set it back on split mode.

73, David, K2MUN

On 10/6/13 3:41 PM, Michael Jensen [via Elecraft] wrote:
 Hi

 I am right now using this exact setup with WSJTX.
 I do get the about 400Hz to 4200 on the waterfall, but TX are an issue.
 As i guess the K3 transmit through the 2,8 Khz. filter when ever i 
 try to work a JT9 QSO above 3,0 Khz on the waterfall i do not see any 
 audio output. I have been looking for a way to TX through the AM 
 filter but have not found the way.

 Any hints please ?


 Thanks in advance

 73 De OZ1BZJ
 Michael

 
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Sam Morgan]

not sure what your TX problem is Michael?

I am running WSJTX v1.2.1, r3587
I am using the K3's AM filter for RX so I can run WSJTX in dual mode

I am running WSJTX using WSJTX's CAT through DXLabs Commander

I just tested my TX all the way from 200 up through 4400
and I can tx with the full audio out of 5 bars
and no reduction in power out

also I am running a SignaLink USB,
but that would have anything to do with it because the audio in WSJTX is 
always between 1500 – 2000 Hz. when in dual mode.



to quote the help notes in WSJTX Version 1.2 Aug. 16, 2013:

Pages 11  12#13.

Note that most SSB transceivers have a fixed Tx filter that will not 
pass audio frequencies higher than about 2700 Hz. WSJT-X v1.1 takes care 
of this by using Split mode, receiving with VFO A and transmitting with 
VFO B. The Tx dial frequency (VFO B) is offset in 500 Hz steps, and the 
generated audio frequency is adjusted so that it always falls in the 
range 1500 – 2000 Hz. With CAT and Split Tx enabled on the configuration 
screen and your transceiver set to Split mode, frequency control will be 
handled automatically.


On 10/6/2013 2:41 PM, Michael Jensen wrote:

Hi

I am right now using this exact setup with WSJTX.
I do get the about 400Hz to 4200 on the waterfall, but TX are an issue.
As i guess the K3 transmit through the 2,8 Khz. filter when ever i try to
work a JT9 QSO above 3,0 Khz on the waterfall i do not see any audio output.
I have been looking for a way to TX through the AM filter but have not found
the way.

Any hints please ?


Thanks in advance

73 De OZ1BZJ
Michael


--

GB  73
K5OAI
Sam Morgan
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[Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[dberkley]

I am considering purchase of a K3 (I own a K2).  One application is the new
mixed JT65-JT9 HF mode.  Possible accessories are:
-KFL3A-6K   6 kHz AM / ESSB, 8-pole filter (to allow full band mixed
waterfall)
-KTCXO3-1  TCXO  (0.1 ppm typ) High Stability Ref. Osc. (to provide
stability especially as required by JT9)
Are these needed and reasonable choices?
73, David, K2MUN



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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Sam Morgan]

I would defiantly add the AM filter, works great for dual JT65 + JT9 wf

I do not have or need the TCXO, the stock K3 works fine for stability
the timing with a pgm like NTP is more of a key factor for QSO's

ymmv

On 9/14/2013 10:10 AM, dberkley wrote:

I am considering purchase of a K3 (I own a K2).  One application is the new
mixed JT65-JT9 HF mode.  Possible accessories are:
-KFL3A-6K   6 kHz AM / ESSB, 8-pole filter (to allow full band mixed
waterfall)
-KTCXO3-1  TCXO  (0.1 ppm typ) High Stability Ref. Osc. (to provide
stability especially as required by JT9)
Are these needed and reasonable choices?
73, David, K2MUN



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K5OAI
Sam Morgan
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Tony Kennedy]

Agree with Sam fully.  I have the AM filter and currently work both modes
easily.  I do not have the TXCO, however it's on my future upgrade list.


On Saturday, September 14, 2013, Sam Morgan wrote:

 I would defiantly add the AM filter, works great for dual JT65 + JT9 wf

 I do not have or need the TCXO, the stock K3 works fine for stability
 the timing with a pgm like NTP is more of a key factor for QSO's

 ymmv

 On 9/14/2013 10:10 AM, dberkley wrote:

 I am considering purchase of a K3 (I own a K2).  One application is the
 new
 mixed JT65-JT9 HF mode.  Possible accessories are:
 -KFL3A-6K   6 kHz AM / ESSB, 8-pole filter (to allow full band mixed
 waterfall)
 -KTCXO3-1  TCXO  (0.1 ppm typ) High Stability Ref. Osc. (to provide
 stability especially as required by JT9)
 Are these needed and reasonable choices?
 73, David, K2MUN


 --

 GB  73
 K5OAI
 Sam Morgan
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filters for mixed JT65 and JT9 HF

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Sam's advice is correct ... however, the FM filter is a suitable
alternative to the AM filter if you plan to do/try FM on the top
end of 10 Meters, 6 meters or install the internal 2 m transverter
at some point.  Either the FM or AM filters will provide a 4 KHz
wide waterfall (200 - 4200 Hz) with the current WSJT-X software.

The high stability TCXO is most certainly not needed - drift over
one minute at HF just isn't a factor.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/14/2013 11:20 AM, Sam Morgan wrote:

I would defiantly add the AM filter, works great for dual JT65 + JT9 wf

I do not have or need the TCXO, the stock K3 works fine for stability
the timing with a pgm like NTP is more of a key factor for QSO's

ymmv

On 9/14/2013 10:10 AM, dberkley wrote:

I am considering purchase of a K3 (I own a K2).  One application is
the new
mixed JT65-JT9 HF mode.  Possible accessories are:
-KFL3A-6K   6 kHz AM / ESSB, 8-pole filter (to allow full band mixed
waterfall)
-KTCXO3-1  TCXO  (0.1 ppm typ) High Stability Ref. Osc. (to provide
stability especially as required by JT9)
Are these needed and reasonable choices?
73, David, K2MUN




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters For Sale UK/Europe

[m0awn]

Bit of a long shot ! just wondered if you still have the filters ?

Chris



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[Elecraft] K3 Filters (again???!!) - Many Thanks

[PETER HUTCHISON]

Hi,
Many thanks to all who responded to my query about which filters to purchase 
for WJST modes.
The replies were varied and all were based on sound argument - ie what worked 
best for that particular operator. The consensus of opinion boiled down to just 
get the basic filter, see how you get on and if necessary get others as and 
when needed. What was interesting was that of all who expressed an opinion said 
go for the kit instead of buying it completed which makes a lot of sense both 
financially and to learn a little about how the rig worked. 
I tried to answer all who contacted me but my server refused to send on my 
reply to Jim KG0KP who I would like to thank via this medium.
Here is hoping that Santa works out of season and delivers me a K3 kit sometime 
in early 2013!
Peter G4URT
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters (again???!!) - Many Thanks

[Don Wilhelm]

Peter,

The K3 filters are quite easy to install later - *unless* you have the 
KRX3 installed.
If you are considering the subRX as part of your order, then I suggest 
you do not install the subRX until you have gotten a handle on the 
filters that you will want.  Install those filters and then install the 
KRX3.  The reason is entirely physical - the K3 main RX filters are 
beneath the KRX3, so that assembly must be removed to add additional 
filters to the main K3 RX.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/16/2012 4:41 PM, PETER HUTCHISON wrote:

Hi,
Many thanks to all who responded to my query about which filters to purchase 
for WJST modes.
The replies were varied and all were based on sound argument - ie what worked 
best for that particular operator. The consensus of opinion boiled down to just 
get the basic filter, see how you get on and if necessary get others as and 
when needed. What was interesting was that of all who expressed an opinion said 
go for the kit instead of buying it completed which makes a lot of sense both 
financially and to learn a little about how the rig worked.
I tried to answer all who contacted me but my server refused to send on my 
reply to Jim KG0KP who I would like to thank via this medium.
Here is hoping that Santa works out of season and delivers me a K3 kit sometime 
in early 2013!
Peter G4URT



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters (again???!!) - Many Thanks

[Jim Miller]

True Don, Without the second receiver it is pretty much a nothing to do
the install.  I have the second receiver too and have added filters twice
since it was installed.  The second time, the 2 meter internal module was
also installed.  Yes, it is not as simple as without additional pieces in
the way but can be done and I didn't see it as anything other than a bit of
a pain to have to remove and reinstall them.  Not something that cannot be
done.

73, de Jim KG0KP

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 5:55 PM
To: PETER HUTCHISON
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters (again???!!) - Many Thanks

Peter,

The K3 filters are quite easy to install later - *unless* you have the
KRX3 installed.
If you are considering the subRX as part of your order, then I suggest you
do not install the subRX until you have gotten a handle on the filters that
you will want.  Install those filters and then install the KRX3.  The reason
is entirely physical - the K3 main RX filters are beneath the KRX3, so that
assembly must be removed to add additional filters to the main K3 RX.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/16/2012 4:41 PM, PETER HUTCHISON wrote:
 Hi,
 Many thanks to all who responded to my query about which filters to
purchase for WJST modes.
 The replies were varied and all were based on sound argument - ie what
worked best for that particular operator. The consensus of opinion boiled
down to just get the basic filter, see how you get on and if necessary get
others as and when needed. What was interesting was that of all who
expressed an opinion said go for the kit instead of buying it completed
which makes a lot of sense both financially and to learn a little about how
the rig worked.
 I tried to answer all who contacted me but my server refused to send on my
reply to Jim KG0KP who I would like to thank via this medium.
 Here is hoping that Santa works out of season and delivers me a K3 kit
sometime in early 2013!
 Peter G4URT


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[Elecraft] K3 Filters (again???!!)

[PETER HUTCHISON]

I appreciate that this is somewhat of a thorny / subjective issue but a search 
of the archives actually revealed very little in the way of useful information.
 
I'm in the throes of putting together an order for a K3 kit after being given 
the appropriate financial go-ahead. However, the issue of suitable filters is 
still to be finialised hence this plea for help. 
 
What filters would be suitable for a station that is primarily interested in 
WJST modes namely FSK441 and JT65B on 2m? Also, some 2m contest working from 
the hills where just occasionally there are some big, wide signals to contend 
with. Very little, if any HF use is anticipated.
 
As I said earlier, this is a subjective issue but all opinions will be of use 
as although I have the go-ahead the price of the filters in the UK being what 
they are I don't want to make a (costly) mistake!!
 
Peter G4URT
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters (again???!!)

[Bill Frantz]

Unless you are working in a contest situation, or when there are 
nearby strong signals, you can use the bandwidth filter in the 
DSP for most situations. The exceptions are:


  You need something wider than the required 2.7KHz/2.8KHz 
filter -- e.g

  FM operation. In this case, get the 13KHz FM filter. With the latest
  firmware, you will also be able to use that filter for 
wide-band SSB

  and AM transmit.

  You want the last bit of performance. See below.

There are two modes of operation to consider, tuning and QSO. 
During tuning, you will want a bandwidth which is wide enough so 
you can find the other station's signal. Once you have the 
station tuned in, you want filters a bit wider than the 
bandwidth of the mode you are using to eliminate as much QRN and 
QRM as possible.


With SSB and AM, where the bandwidth determines the quality of 
the audio, there is a tradeoff between the minimum needed for a 
QSO and the bandwidth which will give maximum listening comfort. 
On SSB receive, I find I usually dial in about 2.3KHz, but 
people's opinions differ widely here.


I find the 250Hz filter works well for PSK operation, which is 
my primary mode of operation. I also have the 3.7KHz standard 
filter and the 13KHz FM filter.


Consider waiting until you have used your K3 for a while before 
deciding which filters to get. You can use the DSP bandwidths 
you are using most often to identify the filters which will 
compliment those bandwidths.


I don't know the bandwidths of the WSJT modes you are using or 
the modes you use for 2M contesting, but the above guidelines 
should get you into the right ballpark for any of them.


Cheers - Bill, AE6JV/1

On 12/15/12 at 6:34 AM, peter.hutchi...@btinternet.com (PETER 
HUTCHISON) wrote:


I appreciate that this is somewhat of a thorny / subjective 
issue but a search of the archives actually revealed very 
little in the way of useful information.

 
I'm in the throes of putting together an order for a K3 kit 
after being given the appropriate financial go-ahead. However, 
the issue of suitable filters is still to be finialised hence 
this plea for help.  
What filters would be suitable for a station that is primarily 
interested in WJST modes namely FSK441 and JT65B on 2m? Also, 
some 2m contest working from the hills where just occasionally 
there are some big, wide signals to contend with. Very little, 
if any HF use is anticipated.

 
As I said earlier, this is a subjective issue but all opinions 
will be of use as although I have the go-ahead the price of the 
filters in the UK being what they are I don't want to make a 
(costly) mistake!!

 
Peter G4URT
 
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---
Bill Frantz| Privacy is dead, get over| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | it.  | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  - Scott McNealy | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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[Elecraft] K3 Filters For Sale UK/Europe

[PAUL BRADBEER]

KFLA3A-2.1K  2.1kHz filter and KFLA3A-1.8K 1.8kHz filter, boxed. £80 each.
Free postage within UK, £5 within Europe.  Contact Paul M0CVX
paul.bradbe...@ntlworld.com  73 Paul
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[Elecraft] k3 filters and kx3

[Adi Andrei]

Can the K3 roofing filters be used in KX3 ?

Adi
2E0TTX

On 12/12/2011 21:22, Jim Miller wrote:
 Poor choice of words: first I fell into the balun habit rather than CM
 choke on the first usage. Second: bifilar wound CM choke would have been
 a better description for the alternative mentioned.

 Jim ab3cv
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Re: [Elecraft] k3 filters and kx3

[Bruce Beford]

No, the KX3 roofing filter module is completely different. It works at
baseband frequencies, rather than the 8+ MHz IF that the K3 uses. You will
not be able to use K3 filters in the KX3.

Bruce, N1RX

 Can the K3 roofing filters be used in KX3 ?

 Adi
 2E0TTX


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Re: [Elecraft] k3 filters and kx3

[Terry Posey]

The Elecraft KX3 architects should weigh in on this topic - a simplified
block diagram would be helpful.  The KX3 roofing filter is likely a analogue
filter realized with precision op amps and operating at the KX3
low-frequency IF (11 KHz?) - not baseband.  The roofing filter is applied
prior to the ADC and DSP, and not at baseband audio frequencies, else it
would not be roofing filter, but merely a post audio filter.

Terry K4RX 


No, the KX3 roofing filter module is completely different. It works at
baseband frequencies, rather than the 8+ MHz IF that the K3 uses. You will
not be able to use K3 filters in the KX3.

Bruce, N1RX

 Can the K3 roofing filters be used in KX3 ?

 Adi
 2E0TTX



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[Elecraft] k3 filters and kx3

[Bruce Beford]

Technically true, Terry. I perhaps oversimplified my response to the 
inquiry. Baseband can mean different things to different people. 
However, the answer to the question remains correct. - No, you cannot 
use the K3 filters in the KX3. I will leave further amplification to 
Wayne or Eric. 
73,
Bruce, N1RX

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 08:51:15 -0500, Terry Posey tpo...@nettally.com wrote:
The Elecraft KX3 architects should weigh in on this topic - a simplified
 block diagram would be helpful. The KX3 roofing filter is likely a analogue
 filter realized with precision op amps and operating at the KX3
 low-frequency IF (11 KHz?) - not baseband. The roofing filter is applied
 prior to the ADC and DSP, and not at baseband audio frequencies, else it
 would not be roofing filter, but merely a post audio filter. 


  

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Re: [Elecraft] k3 filters and kx3

[Edward R. Cole]

Although I agree comments from Elecraft engineering would be welcome, 
my understanding is the KX3 has no IF.

The KX3 is direct-conversion from RF to baseband audio.  Therefore, I 
would expect the roofing filter to not be working at RF and be 
analog.  A direct-conversion receiver is typically very broadband at 
RF so roofing filters would have to be used at baseband before 
conversion to digital.

The K3 is a dual-conversion SDR so the roofing filters are at 8.215 
MHz (1st IF).  Second IF is 15-KHz which is the baseband.  I expect 
the baseband on the KX3 to be about the same to accommodate 
FM.  Roofing filters inserted at baseband would improve SNR on 
narrower bandwidth modes and maybe help discriminate out of band signals(?).

But I am guessing.
Send me a KX3 and I will look under the hood and tell you what I 
see - joking.

I plan to include the roofing filter with my KX3 order.  Just waiting 
to hear the opening bugle!  the horses are at the starting gate.

73, Ed - KL7UW

--

Message: 38
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 08:51:15 -0500
From: Terry Posey tpo...@nettally.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] k3 filters and kx3
To: 'Bruce Beford' bruce.bef...@myfairpoint.net,
 elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Message-ID: 01ccba67$73463300$59d29900$@com
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii

The Elecraft KX3 architects should weigh in on this topic - a simplified
block diagram would be helpful.  The KX3 roofing filter is likely a analogue
filter realized with precision op amps and operating at the KX3
low-frequency IF (11 KHz?) - not baseband.  The roofing filter is applied
prior to the ADC and DSP, and not at baseband audio frequencies, else it
would not be roofing filter, but merely a post audio filter.

Terry K4RX


No, the KX3 roofing filter module is completely different. It works at
baseband frequencies, rather than the 8+ MHz IF that the K3 uses. You will
not be able to use K3 filters in the KX3.

Bruce, N1RX

  Can the K3 roofing filters be used in KX3 ?





73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
==
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@gmail.com
==

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[Elecraft] K3 Filters For Sale

[Larry P. Greenberg]

I have the following filters for sale.  Please respond off the list.  


KFL3A-6K8-pole 6 kHz filter$85
KFL3A-2.7K5-pole 2.7khz filers$50

I will ship CONUS.  

Larry, WA9MAG
wa9...@ameritech.net
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[Elecraft] K3 filters, changed ideas

[Gil WA5YKK]

To all whom responded to my appeal for selling the K3 filters, thanks 
for the replys, and I appreciate the interest. I made a change of plans 
after some consideration, and will take them to my other QTH, well 
inland, for another project. Thanks to all, 73's
  Gil WA5YKK
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[Elecraft] K3: Filters for sale (200, 400)

[Andrew Moore]

Excess to my needs:

KFL3A-200 (5-pole, 200 Hz), $70 includes U.S. shipping

KFL3A-400 (8-pole, 400 Hz), $110 includes U.S. shipping

Flawless condition, bought them new 6 months ago

PayPal

Thanks,
--Andrew, NV1B
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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Filters for sale (200, 400)

[Andrew Moore]

KFL3A-200 and KFL3A-400 have been sold.

Andrew, NV1B
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[Elecraft] K3 Filters looking for.

[Merv Schweigert]

I am going to add some filters to my K3, need to pair up some
for the sub which I have in the main rx. 
Anyone have a 400hz 8 pole for sale,  or a 200hz 5 pole?
May consider a 1KHZ 8 pole also.

Thought I would ask before ordering a couple. 
Thanks 73 Merv KH7C 
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[Elecraft] Wanted: Options for Elecraft K3 (Filters, ATU...)

[A. Spitzer]

Hello!

I am looking for some options for my K3. KAT3 Tuner, KBPF3  General Coverage RX 
Bandpass Module,  KDVR3  Digital Voice Recorder,  KTCXO3-1  TCXO,  KXV3A RX 
Ant., IF Out and Xverter Interface (last Version), KFL3A-2.8K  2.8 kHz, 8-pole 
filter, KFL3A-400  400 Hz, narrow 8-pole  filter,  KFL3A-250  250 Hz, narrow 
8-pole  filter etc..

Thanks

73s Alex NH7VW   

-- 
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Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
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[Elecraft] Wanted: Options for Elecraft K3 (Filters, ATU...)

[A. Spitzer]

Hello!

I am looking for some options for my K3. KAT3 Tuner, KBPF3  General Coverage RX 
Bandpass Module,  KDVR3  Digital Voice Recorder,  KTCXO3-1  TCXO,  KXV3A RX 
Ant., IF Out and Xverter Interface (last Version), KFL3A-2.8K  2.8 kHz, 8-pole 
filter, KFL3A-400  400 Hz, narrow 8-pole  filter,  KFL3A-250  250 Hz, narrow 
8-pole  filter etc..

Thanks

73s Alex NH7VW   
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Preisknaller: GMX DSL Flatrate für nur 16,99 Euro/mtl.!
http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02
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[Elecraft] K3 filters

[Ralph Parker]

...big difference between the 200 (actually 224) and the 250 (actually 370)
and very little diffference between the 250 and the 400 (actually 435).

Stop, you're breakin' my heart!
I've got 2.8, 2.1, 1.0, -- , .250 in the main RX
 and 2.7, -- , -- , .50, --   in the Sub. ('--' = no filter)

I chose .250 8 pole, thinking it was .250 wide (Inrad's usually pretty
good), and I'm about to install a .400 that I bought at last year's sale.
I'm used to a nice tight .250 - helps quite a bit with the noise (city
lot). Hopping back and forth between the .400 and .250 with XFIL will
fulfil most of my needs. What I'd like is a .500 and a .250 (real
bandwidth, both 8 pole).
I find that I almost never use the 1.0.

I like to use DigiPan for a visual display of what my filters are really
doing for me. Being mostly a CW type, a 1.8 on SSB is too narrow for my taste.
Even the 2.1 needs a tweak of the SHIFT so I can stand it.

Matched filters are important for diversity...
I'm enjoying diversity on 160 with my current filters, relying on the DSP
for additional selectivity. I don't feel that I need matched filters (yet).
I may eventually change my mind.

VE7XF

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[Elecraft] K3 Filters

[Tomy]

Any one have any problems with 5 pole 500Hz filters. I have one for each recvr 
and cannot hear anything?

73! Tomy Ivan kf7gc
ATEN, Arizona Traffic and Emergency Net
Most active NTS Traffic Net in Arizona
Our Web Site www.atenaz.net
Get back to Ham Radio Basics!
Join a First Class Traffic Net
Meets 3986 kHz Daily at 5:30:PM MST/0030Z
Radiogram and NTS Training Some Fridays after Net
Arizona Section Traffic Manager
ATEN Net Manager, Net Control Station 
Official Relay Station
Member ARRL, WRRL 157
928-636-7782
kf...@arrl.net
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

I assume you have activated them for proper modes and entered the proper
offsets.  You can do this with the K3 utility and your computer or via the
menu system. 


CC Packet Cluster W0MU-1
W0MU.NET or  67.40.148.194


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tomy
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:06 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Filters

Any one have any problems with 5 pole 500Hz filters. I have one for each
recvr and cannot hear anything?

73! Tomy Ivan kf7gc
ATEN, Arizona Traffic and Emergency Net
Most active NTS Traffic Net in Arizona
Our Web Site www.atenaz.net
Get back to Ham Radio Basics!
Join a First Class Traffic Net
Meets 3986 kHz Daily at 5:30:PM MST/0030Z Radiogram and NTS Training Some
Fridays after Net Arizona Section Traffic Manager ATEN Net Manager, Net
Control Station Official Relay Station Member ARRL, WRRL 157
928-636-7782
kf...@arrl.net
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[Elecraft] K3 Filters and dual bandpass tuning

[andrew vavra]

Question for the experienced K3 owners...

I'm planning a purchase in the very near future and want a clarification on the 
roofing filters and use of passband tuning with the K3.

I think I understand from reading the forum that the K3 automatically selects 
the filter to match the width of the passband.  In other words if I narrow the 
passband using the dual PBT to 500 Hz, the K3 will select the 500 Hz roofing 
filter.

Am I interpreting this correctly?

If this is true, what if I only have 1 roofing filter in the rig... say the 2.7 
kHz?  Can the passband be narrowed even further using PBT like I can do with my 
756 Pro?

Thanks in advance.

Andy, KD3RF

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters and dual bandpass tuning

[Don Wilhelm]

Andrew,

The answer is yes to all of that, except for minor points related to 
your interpretation.
For clarification, there are two considerations - the first is the 
filter width.  That is not necessarily the roofing filter width, the DSP 
filter width can be much more narrow than the roofing filter.  Think of 
the roofing filter as something protecting the K3 demodulation from 
extremely strong signals, much as a house roof protects those things 
under it.  Yes, if you have multiple roofing filters installed, the K3 
will automatically switch them in as you change the DSP filter width.

The K3 DSP determines the ultimate filtering, rather than the roofing 
filter.

Once the DSP filter width is set,  that filter passband can be moved 
about to change the position of the passband within the demodulated 
audio range by changing SHIFT - this SHIFT is equivalent to Passband 
Tuning - it repositions the passband without changing the tone of the 
received signal..

73,
Don W3FPR

andrew vavra wrote:
 Question for the experienced K3 owners...

 I'm planning a purchase in the very near future and want a 
 clarification on the roofing filters and use of passband tuning with 
 the K3.

 I think I understand from reading the forum that the K3 automatically 
 selects the filter to match the width of the passband.  In other words 
 if I narrow the passband using the dual PBT to 500 Hz, the K3 will 
 select the 500 Hz roofing filter.

 Am I interpreting this correctly?

 If this is true, what if I only have 1 roofing filter in the rig... 
 say the 2.7 kHz?  Can the passband be narrowed even further using PBT 
 like I can do with my 756 Pro?

 Thanks in advance.

 Andy, KD3RF


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters, Shift Control and RTTY

[David Wilburn]

If the other station has AFC on in their software, they tend to wander 
around a bit.  I tend NOT to run AFC if I am SP, as I line right up 
on them.  If I am running and there is activity around me, it is hard 
to run AFC, as my signal then wanders around.  But if someone comes up 
a bit off, or I have some room around me, I then run it. It then 
aligns my frequency with theirs.


Its a lot like CW contests, where so many do not zero you before they 
call.


David Wilburn
NM4M
http://www.nm4m.com




Ron Kenwood wrote:
I have been playing in the WAE RTTY contest. I am mainly using the 250Hz 
roofing filter with DSP bandwidth at 300 Hz. I occasionally use the 
1.8kHz filter with DSP set at about 500 Hz. In either configuration, I 
find that I have to use the shift control to center signals in the 
bandpass. Not sure if this is a hardware or software thing, but in any 
case, I have two issues. One is that the minimum shift value is too 
large to accomplish what I want to do at the narrow bandwidth, and when 
I try to use the dual bandpass filter it appears that shift is disabled.


Am I missing something(highly likely), or do I have to request that 
changes be added to the wish list?



Ron W3ZV
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[Elecraft] K3 Filters, Shift Control and RTTY

[Ron Kenwood]

I have been playing in the WAE RTTY contest. I am mainly using the 250Hz 
roofing filter with DSP bandwidth at 300 Hz. I occasionally use the 
1.8kHz filter with DSP set at about 500 Hz. In either configuration, I 
find that I have to use the shift control to center signals in the 
bandpass. Not sure if this is a hardware or software thing, but in any 
case, I have two issues. One is that the minimum shift value is too 
large to accomplish what I want to do at the narrow bandwidth, and when 
I try to use the dual bandpass filter it appears that shift is disabled.


Am I missing something(highly likely), or do I have to request that 
changes be added to the wish list?



Ron W3ZV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters, Shift Control and RTTY

[Lyle Johnson]

... when I try to use the dual bandpass filter it
appears that shift is disabled.


The dual bandpass filter for RTTY is preset to one of four tone pairs 
which you select by using the PITCH function when in DATA:AFSK A or 
DATA:FSK D modes.


73,

Lyle KK7P
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RE: [Elecraft] K3 filters

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 I would like the 250 hz 8 pole filter for cw. Should I also get 
 the 400 hz filter for ssb.

The 400 Hz filter is far too narrow to be useful in SSB - you don’t 
want a bandwidth less than 1500 to 1800 Hz for voice use although 
bandwidths as low as 800 - 1000 Hz may be useful for some digital 
modes.  

I would not recommend both the 400 Hz and 250 Hz in the same radio. 
The reference plots for the 250 Hz and 40 Hz filters on the Elecraft 
web site: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3_8_pole_plots.htm show the 
250 Hz filter to have a bandwidth of 370 Hz and the 400 Hz filter 
to have a bandwidth of 435 Hz.  

There is not enough difference between the 250 and 400 Hz filters 
for you to notice in actual operation. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
  



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott McDowell
 Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:32 PM
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: [Elecraft] K3 filters
 
 
 I have a k3/100 ordered and am trying to decide on filters. I 
 would like the 250 hz 8 pole filter for cw. Should I also get 
 the 400 hz filter for ssb. Scott N5SM 

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[Elecraft] K3 filters

[Scott McDowell]

I have a k3/100 ordered and am trying to decide on filters. I would
like the 250 hz 8 pole filter for cw. Should I also get the 400 hz
filter for ssb.
Scott N5SM
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 filters

[David Wilburn]

The narrowest filter for SSB is the 1.8khz filter.  I have the 2.7, 
1.8, 1k, and 400 hz, and it has worked well for my needs.  The 1.8 has 
been the least useful.  The 1k and 400 are very handy for CW and RTTY. 
 I have not tried the 250 hz 8 pole, but it is only a bit narrower 
than the 400 hz.  You can check out the plots here.


http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3_8_pole_plots.htm

David Wilburn
K4DGW
www.k4dgw.com
www.k4rc.net
Williamsburg Area Amateur Radio Club (K4RC)

My Current LOTW/DXCC/WAS status
www.k4dgw.com/WAS.DXCC.info.html



Scott McDowell wrote:

I have a k3/100 ordered and am trying to decide on filters. I would
like the 250 hz 8 pole filter for cw. Should I also get the 400 hz
filter for ssb.
Scott N5SM
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 filters

[Vic K2VCO]

Scott McDowell wrote:

I have a k3/100 ordered and am trying to decide on filters. I would
like the 250 hz 8 pole filter for cw. Should I also get the 400 hz
filter for ssb.


It's important to remember that the selectivity is dependent on the DSP 
setting and the filter is just a backup for very strong nearby signals. 
For CW the 400 or 500 Hz. filter will be fine; you can adjust the 
bandwidth down to 50 Hz. with the DSP controls.


The 250 Hz. filter is probably narrower than you will need for CW 99% of 
the time. It is useful for RTTY or PSK, however.


For SSB the stock 2.7 kHz. filter will do a good job. Some contesters 
like the 1.8 kHz. filter so they can operate closer to very strong 
signals. 400 Hz. would be way too narrow for SSB.


So if you are a CW/SSB operator I would recommend the 2.7 kHz. filter 
(for ssb) plus the 500 or 400 Hz. filter (for CW). If you are especially 
interested in digital modes, then maybe the 250 could be useful -- but 
it isn't necessary.

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[Elecraft] K3 Filters

[David Robertson]

Shane,

You might have gotten many responses but I will throw in mine just in case.

The KBF3 has it's own area where it mounts on both the main and sub receiver. 
It does not use one of the filter slots.

Both the main and sub receiver have 5 filter slots each. Just remember to 
install the widest filter in the lowest number slot, then each narrower filter 
in a higher number slot.

Example:

6 k filter slot  1 or 2
2.7 k filter slot 2 or 3
400 hz slot 4 or 5

If you are getting the FM filter (which I recommend as it is really good for 
receiving broadcast AM signals) you have to use only slot one for this filter.

I hope this helps.

Dave KD1NA
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[Elecraft] K3 Filters

[Shane White]

Found the following text at
http://www.zerobeat.net/mediawiki/index.php/K3_Suggested_Configurations

AM filter $120. FM Filter $120, not yet available as of February 2008. Also,
the firmware as of Feb 2008 is not ready to allow the 15khz roofing filter
to work with modes other than FM.

Is this still the case? I plan to buy a K3 soon and will want to be able to
use a 9KHz bandwidth in AM mode.
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/K3-Filters-tp17994927p17994927.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters

[Lyle Johnson]

... the firmware as of Feb 2008 is not ready to allow the 15khz
roofing filter to work with modes other than FM.

Is this still the case? I plan to buy a K3 soon and will want to
be able to use a 9KHz bandwidth in AM mode.


I use the 13 kHz FM filter in AM mode reception all the time.  The WIDTH 
control goes to 10 kHz with this filter.  The Tx side uses the 6 kHz 
filter at present.


73,

Lyle KK7P


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

The 6 kHz AM and the FM filters have been shipping for several months.

73, Eric  WA6HHQ



Shane White wrote:

Found the following text at
http://www.zerobeat.net/mediawiki/index.php/K3_Suggested_Configurations

AM filter $120. FM Filter $120, not yet available as of February 2008. Also,
the firmware as of Feb 2008 is not ready to allow the 15khz roofing filter
to work with modes other than FM.

Is this still the case? I plan to buy a K3 soon and will want to be able to
use a 9KHz bandwidth in AM mode.
  

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[Elecraft] K3: Filters now available directly from INRAD

[Mark Volstad]

I see that the 8-pole filters can now be purchased directly from INRAD:

http://www.inrad.net/home.php?cat=140

The pricing is the same as Elecraft's ($125).  I doubt that INRAD would sell 
directly to end-users until they have fulfilled current orders from Elecraft, 
but 
I will leave it to others to test my theory!

Mark, AI4BJ



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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Filters now available directly from INRAD

[Jerry Flanders]

Probably wouldn't post the ad unless they were actually for sale.

They show a sliding discount for 3 or more.

Jerry W4UK

At 03:38 PM 4/22/2008, Mark Volstad wrote:

I see that the 8-pole filters can now be purchased directly from INRAD:

http://www.inrad.net/home.php?cat=140

The pricing is the same as Elecraft's ($125).  I doubt that INRAD would sell
directly to end-users until they have fulfilled current orders from 
Elecraft, but

I will leave it to others to test my theory!

Mark, AI4BJ


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[Elecraft] K3 Filters - Trade 1k for 1.8k?

[Bill W4ZV]

Would anyone like to swap their 1.8k for my 1.0k?  Please reply direct...NOT
to the list.

73,  Bill  W4ZV
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Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[Elecraft] K3 Filters for the 2nd receiver?

[Paul Ferguson]

I plan to use a K3 primarily for DXing. I want the second receiver 
option so I can listen for clear spots and stations working the DX in 
split operations. 

For this usage, can you see any reasons to add additional filters to 
the second receiver?

73,
Paul
K5ESW 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for the 2nd receiver?

[Bill W5WVO]

If I understand what I think you are saying... The 2nd receiver is completely 
independent and doesn't use the filters (or anything else) in the primary 
receiver. Each receiver has its own dedicated roofing filters (up to five). 
You populate the filters in the 2nd receiver according to how you plan to use 
it (just as you do for the primary receiver). Like the primary receiver, the 
2nd receiver will come equipped by default with the 2.7 kHz 5-pole roofing 
filter, and you can replace this filter with another and/or add additional 
filters.


Bill W5WVO


Paul Ferguson wrote:

I plan to use a K3 primarily for DXing. I want the second receiver
option so I can listen for clear spots and stations working the DX in
split operations.

For this usage, can you see any reasons to add additional filters to
the second receiver?

73,
Paul
K5ESW
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for the 2nd receiver?

[Mike Fatchett W0MU]

Yes.

You will want some type of ssb and cw filter IMHO.


On 12/12/07 1:19 PM, Paul Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I plan to use a K3 primarily for DXing. I want the second receiver
 option so I can listen for clear spots and stations working the DX in
 split operations.
 
 For this usage, can you see any reasons to add additional filters to
 the second receiver?
 
 73,
 Paul
 K5ESW 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for the 2nd receiver?

[Mike Fatchett W0MU]

I had the impression the 2nd receiver had no filters at all.

I had intended to put in a 2.7k 1000 and 400 filters in the 2nd receiver.

I also wanted to be able to operate FM and was going to put the FM filter in
the 2nd receiver.  Will this work?

The main receiver was going to have the 200, 400, 1000, 1.8 and 2.7 filters.

Mike W0MU  


On 12/12/07 2:05 PM, Bill W5WVO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 If I understand what I think you are saying... The 2nd receiver is completely
 independent and doesn't use the filters (or anything else) in the primary
 receiver. Each receiver has its own dedicated roofing filters (up to five).
 You populate the filters in the 2nd receiver according to how you plan to use
 it (just as you do for the primary receiver). Like the primary receiver, the
 2nd receiver will come equipped by default with the 2.7 kHz 5-pole roofing
 filter, and you can replace this filter with another and/or add additional
 filters.
 
 Bill W5WVO
 
 
 Paul Ferguson wrote:
 I plan to use a K3 primarily for DXing. I want the second receiver
 option so I can listen for clear spots and stations working the DX in
 split operations.
 
 For this usage, can you see any reasons to add additional filters to
 the second receiver?
 
 73,
 Paul
 K5ESW
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for the 2nd receiver?

[Don Wilhelm]

Mike,

To transmit FM you will need the FM filter in the main receiver (it will 
also be used for transmit).
I would suggest that you re-examine your filters in the main receiver.  
If you will not operate digital modes, you can likely do without the 200 
Hz filter.  If the 200 Hz filter must stay, then I would suggest you 
eliminate the 1000 Hz filter unless you are a CW contest type that likes 
to listen with a wide receiver - during normal operating, your 1.8 kHz 
filter in conjunction with the DSP filtering should work just fine.  
OTOH, if you do not operate a lot of sideband contests, the 1.8 kHz 
filte could go and the 1000 Hz can stay.


These are only my suggestions, choose your filters to match your 
operating preferences.  The DSP will handle reduced bandwidths just fine 
until an offending S-9 +30 signal appears within the roofing filter 
bandpass.   That will likely only occur during contests or other times 
of intense operating activities.  With the 2nd receiver, one could 
always put the in-between filter widths there and switch to receiving 
with the 2nd receiver when the additional filtering is needed.  In other 
words, the FM filter, the 2.7kHz, the 1000 Hz, 400 Hz and 200 Hz in the 
main receiver and 2.7kHz, 1.8 kHz, 1000, and either 400 or 200 in the 
2nd receiver - or something like those combinations, it is all up to you.


73,
Don W3FPR

Mike Fatchett W0MU wrote:

I had the impression the 2nd receiver had no filters at all.

I had intended to put in a 2.7k 1000 and 400 filters in the 2nd receiver.

I also wanted to be able to operate FM and was going to put the FM filter in
the 2nd receiver.  Will this work?

The main receiver was going to have the 200, 400, 1000, 1.8 and 2.7 filters.
  


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for the 2nd receiver?

[Mike Fatchett W0MU]

I was afraid of that

I want the rig to do it all HI!

I can probably do without the FM in this rig then.

I am into RTYY, PSK, CW and SSB contesting.  Ok I have no life.

Thanks for the insight.

Mike


On 12/12/07 4:26 PM, Don Wilhelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Mike,
 
 To transmit FM you will need the FM filter in the main receiver (it will
 also be used for transmit).
 I would suggest that you re-examine your filters in the main receiver.
 If you will not operate digital modes, you can likely do without the 200
 Hz filter.  If the 200 Hz filter must stay, then I would suggest you
 eliminate the 1000 Hz filter unless you are a CW contest type that likes
 to listen with a wide receiver - during normal operating, your 1.8 kHz
 filter in conjunction with the DSP filtering should work just fine.
 OTOH, if you do not operate a lot of sideband contests, the 1.8 kHz
 filte could go and the 1000 Hz can stay.
 
 These are only my suggestions, choose your filters to match your
 operating preferences.  The DSP will handle reduced bandwidths just fine
 until an offending S-9 +30 signal appears within the roofing filter
 bandpass.   That will likely only occur during contests or other times
 of intense operating activities.  With the 2nd receiver, one could
 always put the in-between filter widths there and switch to receiving
 with the 2nd receiver when the additional filtering is needed.  In other
 words, the FM filter, the 2.7kHz, the 1000 Hz, 400 Hz and 200 Hz in the
 main receiver and 2.7kHz, 1.8 kHz, 1000, and either 400 or 200 in the
 2nd receiver - or something like those combinations, it is all up to you.
 
 73,
 Don W3FPR
 
 Mike Fatchett W0MU wrote:
 I had the impression the 2nd receiver had no filters at all.
 
 I had intended to put in a 2.7k 1000 and 400 filters in the 2nd receiver.
 
 I also wanted to be able to operate FM and was going to put the FM filter in
 the 2nd receiver.  Will this work?
 
 The main receiver was going to have the 200, 400, 1000, 1.8 and 2.7 filters.
   
 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filters for the 2nd receiver?

[Alan Bloom]

My solution was to order just one $79 500 Hz CW filter for now.  When
the variable-bandwidth CW filter becomes available I will install it in
the main receiver and move the 500-Hz filter to the second receiver
(when it becomes available).

So the main receiver lineup will be:

- 0.4-0.8 variable CW
- 1.5-2.2 variable SSB
- 2.7 SSB (stock)
- 6.0 AM
- 15  FM

Second receiver:

- 0.5 CW
- 2.7 SSB (stock)

Seems like the most bang for the buck.

Al N1AL


On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 14:53, Mike Fatchett W0MU wrote:
 Yes.
 
 You will want some type of ssb and cw filter IMHO.
 
 
 On 12/12/07 1:19 PM, Paul Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I plan to use a K3 primarily for DXing. I want the second receiver
  option so I can listen for clear spots and stations working the DX in
  split operations.
  
  For this usage, can you see any reasons to add additional filters to
  the second receiver?
  
  73,
  Paul
  K5ESW 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 filters

[Simon Brown (HB9DRV)]

Simple answer - no, but I'll look at this when I get time. At the moment I 
prefer MP3 and wave files.


Simon Brown, HB9DRV

- Original Message - 
From: Nick Lidakis [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Have any of you considered using FLAC to encode these files?
It would afford much greater fidelity at the expense of a slightly larger 
file. And for much larger files one could set up a torrent.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 filters

[Nick Lidakis]

Simon Brown (HB9DRV) wrote:

OK,

Actually I can make good quality MP3 files using some dodgy software I 
came across - will post back later. At the moment there's only 40m 
available...




Slightly off topic but...

Have any of you considered using FLAC to encode these files?
It would afford much greater fidelity at the expense of a slightly 
larger file. And for much larger files one could set up a torrent.


Just a thought.

Nick N2SVT
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[Elecraft] K3 filters

[Benny Aumala]

Nobody seems to talk about Group Delay Time.
The steeper the LC or Xtal filter is, the higher are Group Delay variations.
One filter side up, the other side down.
In narrow filters these are very close.
This is at least one reason for ringing.
8 Xtal filters are clearly steeper than 5 Xtal types, and have higher
variation of Group Delay.

DSP makes very steep  filters WIHOUT group delays.
K3 concentrates best selectivity here. Correct!

Roofing filters just protect the rest of RX from too big signals.
We tend to think that roofing means final selectivity. Wrong!

It would be interseting to measure Group Delays between different
Xtal roofing filters with and without DSP.

Let us imagine an ideal 9MHz SSB-filter plus/minus 1,5kHz. 10 Xtal 
filter has

shape factor of 1,33. Now  -60dB points are plus/minus 2kHz.
Now, the Group Delay difficulties are on both side from 1,3 to 2,2kHz.
Now the best way of using DSP is to delete these variations by
choosing (IF) DSP bandpass of plus/minus 1,2kHz. Still OK for contest,
but you do not agree. A 3kHz good Xtal filter became only 2,2kHz final 
selectivity.

I would rather use 5 xtal roofing and all bandpass DSP.

Group Delay was importand in analog TV-transmitters (ancient times).
It was found the hard way. Once understood, it was controlled
and measured every time.  Final solution was to use transmitters with
normalized IF signal processing. Centralized block for pass-band filtering
with standard Group Delay was the answer.

Benny OH9NB



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 filters

[Simon Brown (HB9DRV)]

It's a 16-bit mono recording taken via the line-out using a high-quality 
soundcard (USInterface.com Navigator). The K3 operator isn't all that 
skilled but he's got half a clue as to what's going on (on a good day at 
least).


The antennas was a sloping 20m dipole, radio tuned to 40m with preamp on.

After tidying up the pigsty I'll see if 20m is alive and make another 
recording before getting on with mode coding.


Simon Brown, HB9DRV

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



K3 owners: is this recording representative of what the K3 actually sounds 
like? 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 filters

[Simon Brown (HB9DRV)]

Hi,

I think this must be my recording system here, I agree that it is not 
great - I will look at the line out options I have enabled. Through my Hi-Fi 
speaker it sounds much better.


Simon Brown, HB9DRV

- Original Message - 
From: Barry N1EU [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Simon, I've listened to the clip on a couple of computers and
headphones, and I appreciate your efforts but I also have to wonder if
this is representative of the K3.  At times it sounds distorted (noise
modulated?, AGC?) and also, the cw tone often doesn't sound great to
my ears.  Additional recordings would be great - from you or any other
K3 owners out there with a soundcard.



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[Elecraft] K3 filters

[Barry N1EU]

Simon, I've listened to the clip on a couple of computers and
headphones, and I appreciate your efforts but I also have to wonder if
this is representative of the K3.  At times it sounds distorted (noise
modulated?, AGC?) and also, the cw tone often doesn't sound great to
my ears.  Additional recordings would be great - from you or any other
K3 owners out there with a soundcard.

73,
Barry N1EU


It's a 16-bit mono recording taken via the line-out using a high-quality
soundcard (USInterface.com Navigator). The K3 operator isn't all that
skilled but he's got half a clue as to what's going on (on a good day at
least).

 K3 owners: is this recording representative of what the K3 actually sounds
 like?
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 filters

[Simon Brown (HB9DRV)]

I have now tried a Delta-44 soundcard - and have concluded that there's some 
processing taking place on the Line Out. I've looked at all options I can 
find and have got nowhere so will take this up with K3 support.


The speaker audio is great, the audio from lineout is hollow!

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

- Original Message - 
From: Simon Brown (HB9DRV) [EMAIL PROTECTED]


I think this must be my recording system here, I agree that it is not 
great - I will look at the line out options I have enabled. Through my 
Hi-Fi speaker it sounds much better.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 filters

[Fred Bennett N9TA]

I've been wondering how the K3 does on phone. Can someone post some
recordings of  the K3 receive audio on SSB and perhaps SWLing???  I also
wonder if  recordings done with PCs faithfully reproduce the audio at
the rig.

   73deFred  N9TA
_

Barry N1EU wrote:

Simon, I've listened to the clip on a couple of computers and
headphones, and I appreciate your efforts but I also have to wonder if
this is representative of the K3.  At times it sounds distorted (noise
modulated?, AGC?) and also, the cw tone often doesn't sound great to
my ears.  Additional recordings would be great - from you or any other
K3 owners out there with a soundcard.

73,
Barry N1EU


  

It's a 16-bit mono recording taken via the line-out using a high-quality


soundcard (USInterface.com Navigator). The K3 operator isn't all that
skilled but he's got half a clue as to what's going on (on a good day at
least).

  

K3 owners: is this recording representative of what the K3 actually sounds
like?
  

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 filters

[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

Benny,

Group Delay is I agree a very important consideration, but I would suggest 
that another very important factor which determines how well a receiver will 
perform when the DSP is used as the main 'selectivity block', is the odd 
order dynamic range of the first IF filter and *everything* else which 
follows it, which includes the DSP. If you widen up the first IF filter or 
its skirts and do NOT have a 'strong' system, in a strong or busy signal 
environment there is a real possibility that some of the IMD products 
generated within the IF filter and / or following stages will appear within 
the DSP's passband. An AGC loop after the filter can help if its component 
parts or action do not worsen IMD, but if activated will cause weak signals 
just above the noise floor to become 'weaker', or even disappear - i.e. the 
DX you are chasing.


These comments are not only about the K3 but receivers in general.

I suppose that another problem is the cost of a 'strong' system, which 
includes that of high performance Crystal filters.


73,
Geoff
GM4ESD



Benny Aumala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on
Saturday, December 01, 2007 9:31 AM




Nobody seems to talk about Group Delay Time.


snip


I would rather use 5 xtal roofing and all bandpass DSP.



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