Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic VFO behaviour, Switching bands and freq's

[Wayne Burdick]

Pete,

This is very baffling, and is most likely firmware issue. I'll discuss it with 
customer support right away and will be getting back to you with some 
questions. 

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Sep 23, 2016, at 12:32 AM, G0PNM  wrote:

> So, the USB/Serial cable arrived yesterday. Last night, I downloaded the
> Utility software and reinstalled the firmware 5.50. All was good, no issues.
> So I decided to try the Beta firmware 5.52 and again no problems and the
> radio behaved normally so I was overjoyed. I sent an email to Elecraft,
> expressing my jubilation that the matter has been resolved.
> Fast forward to this morning. I started work this morning at 0800 but was up
> early so thought I would have a tune around before leaving home. To my
> amazement, the radio behaved as it did before my interventions last night.
> Jumping bands, random relay clicks and the frequency readout displaying
> weird frequencies such as 249Mhz…



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic VFO behaviour, Switching bands and freq's

[G0PNM]

So, the USB/Serial cable arrived yesterday. Last night, I downloaded the
Utility software and reinstalled the firmware 5.50. All was good, no issues.
So I decided to try the Beta firmware 5.52 and again no problems and the
radio behaved normally so I was overjoyed. I sent an email to Elecraft,
expressing my jubilation that the matter has been resolved.
Fast forward to this morning. I started work this morning at 0800 but was up
early so thought I would have a tune around before leaving home. To my
amazement, the radio behaved as it did before my interventions last night.
Jumping bands, random relay clicks and the frequency readout displaying
weird frequencies such as 249Mhz... I did shoot a quick video on my phone,
again, and its on YouTube here:-  https://youtu.be/Lwuuy246FyI
   I apologise for it being on its side but it
was early!
I now fear this radio is going to have to go back to the dealer (Waters and
Stanton (UK)) for repair / replacement / refund. 
My Elecraft experience has not been as I had hoped, being my dream radio.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic VFO behaviour, Switching bands and freq's

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Ian: You make good points. That's why I was careful to say that static was
not a serious issue as long as you do NOT touch anything inside the K3. If
so, such as applying cleaner to the pins, anti-static protection is needed. 

My comments are based on over 50 years of working on sensitive solid state
gear, in the field and in the lab. And they agree with Wayne's
recommendations, which we have reproduced in the various Elecraft assembly
manuals. 

The most common source of a static charge while working is the person;
clothing rubbing, feet shuffling on the floor, etc. That's why being
grounded is very important. The ideal is to wear a conductive wrist or ankle
strap connected to ground through a high-value resistor (1 meg is common) to
prevent shock. Touching a ground accomplishes the same benefit. When not
wearing a strap I touch a ground every time before touching a component or
circuit. 

73, Ron AC7AC 


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian
White
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 12:31 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic VFO behaviour, Switching bands and freq's


Sorry, I would strongly disagree. Removing the front panel is when you need
an anti-static mat and wrist strap the MOST. 

* You are separating two quite large assemblies, each of which is capable of
holding a significant charge (and each of which cost several hundred
dollars).

* You're just about to expose a large number of unprotected internal
connector pins.

* And in all probability, you're just about to *touch* every one of those
pins when applying antioxidant.

This really is NOT a good moment to skip the static protection.  

Also, "touching a ground" is fundamentally NOT what static protection is
about! It's about safely CONNECTING EVERYTHING TOGETHER (including the
operator) to discharge any potential differences. This includes keeping them
connected together, even while subassemblies like the front panel are being
unplugged. 

In this context, the word "safely" includes the use of high-resistance
materials and connecting leads, to avoid damaging discharge currents and
minimize the risk of electric shock to the operator. That is why the
operator is connected through a *high* resistance to ground - and also why
"touching ground" can actually do damage.


Note to Pete, G0PNM: in the UK, Contralube 770 (from Maplin) has proved to
be an excellent alternative to Deoxit.


73 from Ian GM3SEK


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic VFO behaviour, Switching bands and freq's

[G Wood]

Hello Pete

A few months ago I had similar problem with my K3 (sn: 05845).

I upgraded the FW from 05.29 to 05.38, tuning the vfo, the freq would jump, 
sometimes out of band. One occasion both vfo's read 300.000.00.

The rig had worked fine on the old FW so I reverted back to FW 05.29. That 
solved all the problems, that was 7 months ago, touch wood everything has 
worked fine since.

Something worth trying before taking boards out etc.

Graham G3VIP
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic VFO behaviour, Switching bands and freq's

[Ian White]

Ron wrote:
>
>Mark makes an excellent point but a special anti-static pad is not
required
>for a simple procedure like this. However, simply unplugging and
replacing
>the FP does not require touching anything inside the K3, so there's no
>danger.
>
>If you need to touch the pins on the connectors or anything inside the
K3, a
>good workable option to the anti-static mat is to simply touch a ground
>frequently while working.
>

Sorry, I would strongly disagree. Removing the front panel is when you
need an anti-static mat and wrist strap the MOST. 

* You are separating two quite large assemblies, each of which is
capable of holding a significant charge (and each of which cost several
hundred dollars).

* You're just about to expose a large number of unprotected internal
connector pins.

* And in all probability, you're just about to *touch* every one of
those pins when applying antioxidant.

This really is NOT a good moment to skip the static protection.  

Also, "touching a ground" is fundamentally NOT what static protection is
about! It's about safely CONNECTING EVERYTHING TOGETHER (including the
operator) to discharge any potential differences. This includes keeping
them connected together, even while subassemblies like the front panel
are being unplugged. 

In this context, the word "safely" includes the use of high-resistance
materials and connecting leads, to avoid damaging discharge currents and
minimize the risk of electric shock to the operator. That is why the
operator is connected through a *high* resistance to ground - and also
why "touching ground" can actually do damage.


Note to Pete, G0PNM: in the UK, Contralube 770 (from Maplin) has proved
to be an excellent alternative to Deoxit.


73 from Ian GM3SEK


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic VFO behaviour, Switching bands and freq's

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Mark makes an excellent point but a special anti-static pad is not required
for a simple procedure like this. However, simply unplugging and replacing
the FP does not require touching anything inside the K3, so there's no
danger. 

If you need to touch the pins on the connectors or anything inside the K3, a
good workable option to the anti-static mat is to simply touch a ground
frequently while working.

IF you don't already have one, a good pad and a wrist strap to keep you
"discharged" is a great addition to your tool kit. One of the Elecraft
engineers undertook an analysis to the mats on the market and discovered
that some are less than useful. Here's his recommendations as published in
many of the Elecraft manuals:

An anti-static mat must bleed off any charge that comes in contact with it
at a rate slow enough to avoid a shock or short circuit hazard but fast
enough to ensure dangerous charges cannot accumulate. Typically, a mat will
have a resistance of up to 1 Gigaohm (109 ohms). Testing a mat requires
specialized equipment, so we recommend that you choose an anti-static mat
that comes with published resistance specifications and clean it as
recommended by the manufacturer. Testing has shown that many inexpensive
mats that do not specify their resistance have resistance values much too
high to provide adequate protection, even after they were cleaned and
treated with special anti-static mat solutions. 

Suitable anti-static table mats are available from many sources including:
.   U-line (Model 12743 specified at 107 ohms)
.   Desco (Model 66164, specified at 106 to 108 ohms)
.   3MTM Portable Service Kit (Model 8505 or 8507, specified at 106 to
109 ohms) 

73, Ron AC7AC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic VFO behaviour, Switching bands and freq's

[Mark E. Musick]

When I had K3 serial #3505 in for upgrades, it had the old pins and they
upgraded to the gold pins and didn't charge me for that part of the service.
The support folks told me the change to the gold pins was somewhere just
over serial #4000. They did not know the exact serial number.
I agree with Ron. I would remove and replace the front panel to exercise the
pins for possible oxidation. Also, the front panel connectors may not be
aligned properly.
Pete, if you decide to perform the front panel removal, it is important that
you use an antistatic mat. It is a good idea to have one as you may want to
add options or change options later.

Mark, WB9CIF

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ron
D'Eau Claire
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 7:31 PM
To: 'G0PNM' <pete.so...@icloud.com>
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic VFO behaviour, Switching bands and freq's

Guy is quite right about the pin issue, however I have an early K3 with the
original pins and it works FB after 9 years. 

To be absolutely sure it isn't something external to the K3, first I'd
disconnect EVERYTHING except the main power cable, and see if the problem
persists.

Next I'd remove and replace the front panel assembly. It's not nearly as bad
as it sounds but doing so will exercise the connectors and clean any
oxidation that has accumulated on the pins. 

You can download a manual with a detailed procedure with photos for R/R the
front panel from Elecraft:

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740130%20KDVR3%20Option%20Installation%20Rev
%20C.pdf

That manual is for adding the digital voice recorder which requires removing
the front panel (see pages 6, 7 and 8). 

One reason I have never had a problem is possibly because my K3 (S/N 00010)
has been apart countless times as I maintain the Kit Assembly manual with
updates, etc. So the connectors don't get a chance to oxidize. 

Another thing that I've done is to put a drop of contact cleaner on each
pin. I used DeOxit by Caig. But simply exercising those connectors seems to
have fixed issues for others. 

73, Ron AC7AC



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy
Olinger K2AV
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 10:33 AM
To: G0PNM
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic VFO behaviour, Switching bands and freq's

In the K3 there are a few digital lines from the front panel which carry
multiplexed information to the CPU. The only way I can think of that would
scramble unrelated front panel input according to your report is that the
multiplexed line is malfunctioning and screwing up the data stream into the
cpu. The essential way to do that is a poor connection in the connector
pin/socket between front panel and CPU board.

Don't remember serial when Elecraft went to gold pins, but if they aren't
gold in yours you need to upgrade. If they ARE gold then the connector
probably is not seated properly. There is a lot of good stuff in the
archives about the "pin problem".

The other thing hate to bring up is lightning/static damage. If you can get
to the seller you might want to discuss the problem with him and whether
unit non-professionally repaired/disassembled/reassembled.

73, Guy K2AV

On Sunday, September 18, 2016, G0PNM <pete.so...@icloud.com> wrote:

> Hi all, New to the whole Elecraft scene.
> Just acquired my first K3 and its serial number is 07126.
> I have been experiencing some strange behavior while rotating the VFO 
> whereby the radio would change bands unexpectedly. On occasions, the 
> rig will jump to a supposed frequency well out of the range of the 
> radio
i.e.
> in
> the VHF bands!
>
> I managed to capture this behavior on my phone and have uploaded it to 
> youtube. The link is here:- https://youtu.be/IILWIe7hPzg 
> <https://youtu.be/IILWIe7hPzg>
>
>
> I have waited a long time to get hold of an Elecraft, being my dream 
> radio but its quickly losing its sparkle and I am losing my hair!.
>
> ANY help would be much appreciated. I have only had it a week and I am 
> also emailing the supplier here in the UK.
>
> Thanks
> Pete G0PNM
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.
> nabble.com/K3-Erratic-VFO-behaviour-Switching-bands-and-
> freq-s-tp7622624.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> k2av@gmail.com <javascript:;>
>


--
Sent 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic VFO behaviour, Switching bands and freq's

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Guy is quite right about the pin issue, however I have an early K3 with the
original pins and it works FB after 9 years. 

To be absolutely sure it isn't something external to the K3, first I'd
disconnect EVERYTHING except the main power cable, and see if the problem
persists.

Next I'd remove and replace the front panel assembly. It's not nearly as bad
as it sounds but doing so will exercise the connectors and clean any
oxidation that has accumulated on the pins. 

You can download a manual with a detailed procedure with photos for R/R the
front panel from Elecraft:

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740130%20KDVR3%20Option%20Installation%20Rev
%20C.pdf

That manual is for adding the digital voice recorder which requires removing
the front panel (see pages 6, 7 and 8). 

One reason I have never had a problem is possibly because my K3 (S/N 00010)
has been apart countless times as I maintain the Kit Assembly manual with
updates, etc. So the connectors don't get a chance to oxidize. 

Another thing that I've done is to put a drop of contact cleaner on each
pin. I used DeOxit by Caig. But simply exercising those connectors seems to
have fixed issues for others. 

73, Ron AC7AC



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy
Olinger K2AV
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 10:33 AM
To: G0PNM
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic VFO behaviour, Switching bands and freq's

In the K3 there are a few digital lines from the front panel which carry
multiplexed information to the CPU. The only way I can think of that would
scramble unrelated front panel input according to your report is that the
multiplexed line is malfunctioning and screwing up the data stream into the
cpu. The essential way to do that is a poor connection in the connector
pin/socket between front panel and CPU board.

Don't remember serial when Elecraft went to gold pins, but if they aren't
gold in yours you need to upgrade. If they ARE gold then the connector
probably is not seated properly. There is a lot of good stuff in the
archives about the "pin problem".

The other thing hate to bring up is lightning/static damage. If you can get
to the seller you might want to discuss the problem with him and whether
unit non-professionally repaired/disassembled/reassembled.

73, Guy K2AV

On Sunday, September 18, 2016, G0PNM <pete.so...@icloud.com> wrote:

> Hi all, New to the whole Elecraft scene.
> Just acquired my first K3 and its serial number is 07126.
> I have been experiencing some strange behavior while rotating the VFO 
> whereby the radio would change bands unexpectedly. On occasions, the 
> rig will jump to a supposed frequency well out of the range of the radio
i.e.
> in
> the VHF bands!
>
> I managed to capture this behavior on my phone and have uploaded it to 
> youtube. The link is here:- https://youtu.be/IILWIe7hPzg 
> <https://youtu.be/IILWIe7hPzg>
>
>
> I have waited a long time to get hold of an Elecraft, being my dream 
> radio but its quickly losing its sparkle and I am losing my hair!.
>
> ANY help would be much appreciated. I have only had it a week and I am 
> also emailing the supplier here in the UK.
>
> Thanks
> Pete G0PNM
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.
> nabble.com/K3-Erratic-VFO-behaviour-Switching-bands-and-
> freq-s-tp7622624.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> k2av@gmail.com <javascript:;>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic VFO behaviour, Switching bands and freq's

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

In the K3 there are a few digital lines from the front panel which carry
multiplexed information to the CPU. The only way I can think of that would
scramble unrelated front panel input according to your report is that the
multiplexed line is malfunctioning and screwing up the data stream into the
cpu. The essential way to do that is a poor connection in the connector
pin/socket between front panel and CPU board.

Don't remember serial when Elecraft went to gold pins, but if they aren't
gold in yours you need to upgrade. If they ARE gold then the connector
probably is not seated properly. There is a lot of good stuff in the
archives about the "pin problem".

The other thing hate to bring up is lightning/static damage. If you can get
to the seller you might want to discuss the problem with him and whether
unit non-professionally repaired/disassembled/reassembled.

73, Guy K2AV

On Sunday, September 18, 2016, G0PNM  wrote:

> Hi all, New to the whole Elecraft scene.
> Just acquired my first K3 and its serial number is 07126.
> I have been experiencing some strange behavior while rotating the VFO
> whereby the radio would change bands unexpectedly. On occasions, the rig
> will jump to a supposed frequency well out of the range of the radio i.e.
> in
> the VHF bands!
>
> I managed to capture this behavior on my phone and have uploaded it to
> youtube. The link is here:-
> https://youtu.be/IILWIe7hPzg 
>
>
> I have waited a long time to get hold of an Elecraft, being my dream radio
> but its quickly losing its sparkle and I am losing my hair!.
>
> ANY help would be much appreciated. I have only had it a week and I am also
> emailing the supplier here in the UK.
>
> Thanks
> Pete G0PNM
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.
> nabble.com/K3-Erratic-VFO-behaviour-Switching-bands-and-
> freq-s-tp7622624.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to k2av@gmail.com 
>


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[Elecraft] K3 Erratic VFO behaviour, Switching bands and freq's

[G0PNM]

Hi all, New to the whole Elecraft scene. 
Just acquired my first K3 and its serial number is 07126. 
I have been experiencing some strange behavior while rotating the VFO
whereby the radio would change bands unexpectedly. On occasions, the rig
will jump to a supposed frequency well out of the range of the radio i.e. in
the VHF bands! 

I managed to capture this behavior on my phone and have uploaded it to
youtube. The link is here:- 
https://youtu.be/IILWIe7hPzg   


I have waited a long time to get hold of an Elecraft, being my dream radio
but its quickly losing its sparkle and I am losing my hair!.

ANY help would be much appreciated. I have only had it a week and I am also
emailing the supplier here in the UK.

Thanks
Pete G0PNM



--
View this message in context: 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 erratic VFO

[graham . wood1]

Hi Chris,

A few months ago I updated the K3 (sn5845) firmware from 5.29 to 5.38.

I started to have a similar experiences, VFO's jumping Freq etc. I was given 
similar advise, to try working backwards removing newly installed boards and 
reinstalling them.

Before trying this I decided to go back to firmware 5.29 and last known working 
config file. This completely cured the problem and K3 is still working fine, so 
far not plucked up courage to try updating to 5.38 again.

If your problem started after updating your firmware, try going back to 
previous version it might solve the problem.
best of luck Chris.

73's Gray G3VIP
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[Elecraft] K3 erratic VFO

[Chris Meagher]

I'm getting erratic behaviour of the VFO. it will suddenly jump to
frequencies outside of ham bands
e.g. 200MHz, or will lurch back and forth in a band. It is triggered when
turning the main knob
or also RIT/XIT knob configured as fast tune. When powered off and back on,
seems to always return to 28.xxx MHz.

I have tried re-do firmware, re-init, recal VCO, and still it persists. CAL
VFO fixed it for a day or 2 but now its back.

Elecraft support suggested remove front panel and deoxit the pins.
Before I go to this far, I wonder if anyone has`a similar experience or
suggestions.
Radio is presently unusable, after many years of trouble free operation..
(Serial no 685)

Chris  VK2ACD
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