Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Gmail - George]

Bill,
Try using a sharp soldering aid to "tighten" the female connector contact on 
the K3 & P3.
Pry the female center contacts inward just a bit.
73
George
AI4VZ

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Breeden
Sent: Friday, April 7, 2017 1:18 PM
To: Jim LeFevre
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal


Jim,

I too had an issue with a couple of cables between my K3 and P3. Had to
wiggle the cable every few days to get rid of the extra noise on the
P3.  Finally replaced the cable with a 3 foot Amphenol BNC cable, part
number 115101-30-36.00 and have never had the issue again.  The cable is
made with LMR-100, which is skinny and flexible.  It's currently in
stock at Mouser for $18.66.

73,

Bill - NA5DX


On 4/7/2017 11:09 AM, Jim LeFevre wrote:
> I'm replying late to this subject as I've been out of town and have many 
> digests to go thru...speaking of Amphenol BNC's: I have had continuing 
> problems with the original cable to go from K3 to P3 from day one. Yes, 
> those great folks at Elecraft sent me a replacement cable gratis, but I 
> have to deal with this every time I'm on the radio. I've cleaned, tweaked 
> and replaced, and the display problems come back eventually. I'm shopping 
> for making my own, and want to use amphenol solder (clamp) style for 
> RG-58. I've boiled it down to 31-2 and 31-212 (not 31-212RFX). On the 
> technical drawings the pins are drawn as a different shape! I can't see 
> any other difference except for price. I plan on also cabling to the RX 
> ANT In. Several posts were made regarding this subject including a link to 
> the general amphenol BNC page, without sharing which specific part you 
> use. Could you please share the exact part you use and why? Thanks! Jim 
> WN8A

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Bill Breeden]

Jim,

I too had an issue with a couple of cables between my K3 and P3. Had to 
wiggle the cable every few days to get rid of the extra noise on the 
P3.  Finally replaced the cable with a 3 foot Amphenol BNC cable, part 
number 115101-30-36.00 and have never had the issue again.  The cable is 
made with LMR-100, which is skinny and flexible.  It's currently in 
stock at Mouser for $18.66.


73,

Bill - NA5DX


On 4/7/2017 11:09 AM, Jim LeFevre wrote:

I'm replying late to this subject as I've been out of town and have many 
digests to go thru...speaking of Amphenol BNC's: I have had continuing problems 
with the original cable to go from K3 to P3 from day one. Yes, those great 
folks at Elecraft sent me a replacement cable gratis, but I have to deal with 
this every time I'm on the radio. I've cleaned, tweaked and replaced, and the 
display problems come back eventually. I'm shopping for making my own, and want 
to use amphenol solder (clamp) style for RG-58. I've boiled it down to 31-2 and 
31-212 (not 31-212RFX). On the technical drawings the pins are drawn as a 
different shape! I can't see any other difference except for price. I plan on 
also cabling to the RX ANT In. Several posts were made regarding this subject 
including a link to the general amphenol BNC page, without sharing which 
specific part you use. Could you please share the exact part you use and why? 
Thanks! Jim WN8A
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal (part# correction)

[Jim LeFevre]

Oops, I meant 31-2 and 31-202, as the 31-212 is for rg 59. 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Jim LeFevre]

I'm replying late to this subject as I've been out of town and have many 
digests to go thru...speaking of Amphenol BNC's: I have had continuing problems 
with the original cable to go from K3 to P3 from day one. Yes, those great 
folks at Elecraft sent me a replacement cable gratis, but I have to deal with 
this every time I'm on the radio. I've cleaned, tweaked and replaced, and the 
display problems come back eventually. I'm shopping for making my own, and want 
to use amphenol solder (clamp) style for RG-58. I've boiled it down to 31-2 and 
31-212 (not 31-212RFX). On the technical drawings the pins are drawn as a 
different shape! I can't see any other difference except for price. I plan on 
also cabling to the RX ANT In. Several posts were made regarding this subject 
including a link to the general amphenol BNC page, without sharing which 
specific part you use. Could you please share the exact part you use and why? 
Thanks! Jim WN8A
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Jim Brown]

On Tue,4/4/2017 2:19 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

I'm sure the Amphenol connectors are very high quality and perhaps
not as leaky and unreliable as generic (or worn) connectors


The problem with that is that it assumes that the Amphenol connector you 
properly installed is mated to another Amphenol connector, properly 
installed.


A few years ago, I added stubs to a couple of antennas for harmonic 
suppression, carefully placing them for optimum suppression, but didn't 
hear nearly as much suppression as I thought I should. One of the causes 
was rectification and re-radiation, as you had posted (thank you VERY 
much for that), but the other cause was leakage in the cabling that made 
up my antenna switching, and in the switching itself. Harmonic 
suppression can be a big deal if you're trying work SO2R on 40/80 and 
40/20.


The next summer, I bought a spool of BuryFlex and a bag of 83-1SPs and 
replaced every piece of coax in that system. I also replaced the 6x2 
Array Solutions switch with the newest 4O3A 8x2 switch. Once that work 
was complete, harmonic suppression provided by the stubs was 
significantly better, and what I heard was down to the "gurgly" sounding 
rectification you described.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Barry]

Frank,
I have had intermittent problems with BNC and N connectors. It was a 
really subtle thing. The connectors were for 75 Ohm connection vice 50 
Ohms. That meant the center pin was thinner which caused intermittent 
connections. After that, I've always checked to see that I didn't make 
that mistake again.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: donov...@starpower.net
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: 4/4/2017 5:19:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal


Hi Ron,


If you've ever used BNC connectors in a lab environment -- especially
above about 30 MHz -- you soon become aware of their shortcomings
especially if they don't fit snugly. I've never noticed BNC problems
at HF frequencies except for worn (or cheaply made) connectors that
fit very loosely.


I'm sure the Amphenol connectors are very high quality and perhaps
not as leaky and unreliable as generic (or worn) connectors


73
Frank
W3LPL

- Original Message -

From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <r...@cobi.biz>
To: donov...@starpower.net, "Elecraft Reflector" 
<elecraft@mailman.qth.net>

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 9:09:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

Good point Frank.

Amphenol specs leakage for their BNC connectors at 3GHz where they 
claim 55
dB. By comparison they claim 90 dB at 3 GHz for their type N 
connectors.


I've never felt the need for the additional shielding in the shack.

Of course these are Amphenol specs. Any other brand may have any other 
level
of leakage. As many have noted, the extra price of a good connector is 
saved

many times over chasing bad cable connections later.

BNC specs
http://www.amphenolrf.com/connectors/bnc.html

N specs:
http://www.amphenolrf.com/connectors/n-type.html

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
donov...@starpower.net
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 9:38 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

BNC connectors rate high for convenience and low for performance, 
especially

leakage performance.


BNC connector leakage typicallymeasures in the range from -25 to
-50 dB vs -60 to -90 dB for N connectors. Any BNC connector
that does not fit snugly should replaced and discarded


73
Frank
W3LPL


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

I've pretty much standardized on Amphenol connectors.
It's worth paying a little more and having less headaches.


  From: Ron D'Eau Claire <r...@cobi.biz>
 To: donov...@starpower.net; 'Elecraft Reflector' <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
 Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 5:12 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal
   
Good point Frank. 

Amphenol specs leakage for their BNC connectors at 3GHz where they claim 55
dB. By comparison they claim 90 dB at 3 GHz for their type N connectors.

I've never felt the need for the additional shielding in the shack. 

Of course these are Amphenol specs. Any other brand may have any other level
of leakage. As many have noted, the extra price of a good connector is saved
many times over chasing bad cable connections later. 

BNC specs
http://www.amphenolrf.com/connectors/bnc.html

N specs:
http://www.amphenolrf.com/connectors/n-type.html

73, Ron AC7AC


   
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[David Olean]

I would echo Frank's comments. I learned long ago that you never measure 
antenna gain with any BNC connectors in the signal path. Each joint 
would introduce intermittent loss depending on how much the cable 
moved.  They are not very stable at VHF frequencies. They sure are 
convenient though for more simple tasks.


Dave K1WHS


On 4/4/2017 9:19 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

Hi Ron,


If you've ever used BNC connectors in a lab environment -- especially
above about 30 MHz -- you soon become aware of their shortcomings
especially if they don't fit snugly. I've never noticed BNC problems
at HF frequencies except for worn (or cheaply made) connectors that
fit very loosely.


I'm sure the Amphenol connectors are very high quality and perhaps
not as leaky and unreliable as generic (or worn) connectors


73
Frank
W3LPL

- Original Message -

From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <r...@cobi.biz>
To: donov...@starpower.net, "Elecraft Reflector" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 9:09:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

Good point Frank.

Amphenol specs leakage for their BNC connectors at 3GHz where they claim 55
dB. By comparison they claim 90 dB at 3 GHz for their type N connectors.

I've never felt the need for the additional shielding in the shack.

Of course these are Amphenol specs. Any other brand may have any other level
of leakage. As many have noted, the extra price of a good connector is saved
many times over chasing bad cable connections later.

BNC specs
http://www.amphenolrf.com/connectors/bnc.html

N specs:
http://www.amphenolrf.com/connectors/n-type.html

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
donov...@starpower.net
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 9:38 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

BNC connectors rate high for convenience and low for performance, especially
leakage performance.


BNC connector leakage typicallymeasures in the range from -25 to
-50 dB vs -60 to -90 dB for N connectors. Any BNC connector
that does not fit snugly should replaced and discarded


73
Frank
W3LPL


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[donovanf]

Hi Ron, 


If you've ever used BNC connectors in a lab environment -- especially 
above about 30 MHz -- you soon become aware of their shortcomings 
especially if they don't fit snugly. I've never noticed BNC problems 
at HF frequencies except for worn (or cheaply made) connectors that 
fit very loosely. 


I'm sure the Amphenol connectors are very high quality and perhaps 
not as leaky and unreliable as generic (or worn) connectors 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <r...@cobi.biz> 
To: donov...@starpower.net, "Elecraft Reflector" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 9:09:32 PM 
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal 

Good point Frank. 

Amphenol specs leakage for their BNC connectors at 3GHz where they claim 55 
dB. By comparison they claim 90 dB at 3 GHz for their type N connectors. 

I've never felt the need for the additional shielding in the shack. 

Of course these are Amphenol specs. Any other brand may have any other level 
of leakage. As many have noted, the extra price of a good connector is saved 
many times over chasing bad cable connections later. 

BNC specs 
http://www.amphenolrf.com/connectors/bnc.html 

N specs: 
http://www.amphenolrf.com/connectors/n-type.html 

73, Ron AC7AC 

-Original Message- 
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of 
donov...@starpower.net 
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 9:38 PM 
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal 

BNC connectors rate high for convenience and low for performance, especially 
leakage performance. 


BNC connector leakage typicallymeasures in the range from -25 to 
-50 dB vs -60 to -90 dB for N connectors. Any BNC connector 
that does not fit snugly should replaced and discarded 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Good point Frank. 

Amphenol specs leakage for their BNC connectors at 3GHz where they claim 55
dB. By comparison they claim 90 dB at 3 GHz for their type N connectors.

I've never felt the need for the additional shielding in the shack. 

Of course these are Amphenol specs. Any other brand may have any other level
of leakage. As many have noted, the extra price of a good connector is saved
many times over chasing bad cable connections later. 

BNC specs
http://www.amphenolrf.com/connectors/bnc.html

N specs:
http://www.amphenolrf.com/connectors/n-type.html

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
donov...@starpower.net
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 9:38 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

BNC connectors rate high for convenience and low for performance, especially
leakage performance. 


BNC connector leakage typicallymeasures in the range from -25 to 
-50 dB vs -60 to -90 dB for N connectors. Any BNC connector 
that does not fit snugly should replaced and discarded 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[donovanf]

BNC connectors rate high for convenience and low for performance, 
especially leakage performance. 


BNC connector leakage typicallymeasures in the range from -25 to 
-50 dB vs -60 to -90 dB for N connectors. Any BNC connector 
that does not fit snugly should replaced and discarded 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 




- Original Message -

From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <r...@cobi.biz> 
To: "Edward R Cole" <kl...@acsalaska.net>, "Elecraft Reflector" 
<elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 2:12:03 AM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal 

Note that BNC connectors can easily handle a kW of RF power unless there is 
a high SWR on the line. They are rated for 500V. 

73 Ron AC7AC 

-Original Message- 
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward 
R Cole 
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 6:24 PM 
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal 

Simple - use something better than PL-259's: 

I mainly use N connectors for low loss/high power and BNC for low power 
inside the shack connections. I also have TNC and sma connectors. 

Most connectors need a 1/4 turn beyond finger tight for reliable 
connections. Sure cure for loose connectors is heat shrink over them. Not 
only seals from wx but also loosening due to vibration. 

Want to see what vibration does? Install a radio in a D8 cat without some 
kind of vibration damping. I did long ago, and the Motorola 100w VHF radio 
was a cabinet full of loose parts after 8-hours running of the cat. Wonder 
why military radios are full of glyptol, or completely potted in plastic? 

73, Ed - KL7UW 
http://www.kl7uw.com 
Dubus-NA Business mail: 
dubus...@gmail.com 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Bill Frantz]

When I was plugging and unplugging stubs and traps chasing the 
broadcast interference problem and testing mitigations, it got a 
lot easier when I add a bunch of adapters to make the process 
attaching a BNC instead of a UHF. UHF connectors seem easier to 
fit onto 1/2 inch coax though.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/3/17 at 7:18 PM, wun...@wunderwood.org (Walter Underwood) wrote:

According to Amphenol, UHF connectors have the same rating as 
BNC, 500V. Type N connectors can handle 1500V.


I use BNC and N connectors wherever possible.


---
Bill Frantz| Re: Computer reliability, performance, and security:
408-356-8506   | The guy who *is* wearing a parachute is 
*not* the

www.pwpconsult.com | first to reach the ground.  - Terence Kelly

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Walter Underwood]

According to Amphenol, UHF connectors have the same rating as BNC, 500V. Type N 
connectors can handle 1500V.

I use BNC and N connectors wherever possible.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Apr 3, 2017, at 7:12 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <r...@cobi.biz> wrote:
> 
> Note that BNC connectors can easily handle a kW of RF power unless there is
> a high SWR on the line. They are rated for 500V. 
> 
> 73 Ron AC7AC
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward
> R Cole
> Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 6:24 PM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal
> 
> Simple - use something better than PL-259's:
> 
> I mainly use N connectors for low loss/high power and BNC for low power
> inside the shack connections.  I also have TNC and sma connectors.
> 
> Most connectors need a 1/4 turn beyond finger tight for reliable
> connections.  Sure cure for loose connectors is heat shrink over them.  Not
> only seals from wx but also loosening due to vibration.
> 
> Want to see what vibration does?  Install a radio in a D8 cat without some
> kind of vibration damping.  I did long ago, and the Motorola 100w VHF radio
> was a cabinet full of loose parts after 8-hours running of the cat.  Wonder
> why military radios are full of glyptol, or completely potted in plastic?
> 
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
>   http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
>   dubus...@gmail.com 
> 
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> Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Note that BNC connectors can easily handle a kW of RF power unless there is
a high SWR on the line. They are rated for 500V. 

73 Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward
R Cole
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 6:24 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

Simple - use something better than PL-259's:

I mainly use N connectors for low loss/high power and BNC for low power
inside the shack connections.  I also have TNC and sma connectors.

Most connectors need a 1/4 turn beyond finger tight for reliable
connections.  Sure cure for loose connectors is heat shrink over them.  Not
only seals from wx but also loosening due to vibration.

Want to see what vibration does?  Install a radio in a D8 cat without some
kind of vibration damping.  I did long ago, and the Motorola 100w VHF radio
was a cabinet full of loose parts after 8-hours running of the cat.  Wonder
why military radios are full of glyptol, or completely potted in plastic?

73, Ed - KL7UW
   http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
   dubus...@gmail.com 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Matthew Cook]

Ok.. My K3 has done something similar recently.

When you suspect that the RX has gone dead, try holding the Tune button and
force the radio to transmit a CW carrier.  I suspect you'll find that you
will get no output power aswell...  In this case the problem is with the
local oscillator and you won't see any error codes on the display either.

In my case I'd run into trouble with low out of from the KREF3 reference
oscillator which was fixed with a resistor change as per these instructions
(
http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740278%20KREF3%20Output%20Level%20Modification.pdf).
  From memory the green LED on the top of the KSYN3A I'd installed would
not light when it decided it didn't like the look of the reference
oscillator, hence no LO would be generated and the symptoms were similar to
the ones you described.

It was intermittent and could be solved by power cycling the radio a few
times, I could have sworn the odd "calibrated bump" would restore operation
as well  but I'm not so sure.

Otherwise I'd be cleaning all of the TMP connectors with something like
deoxit and making sure all of the LO and Reference oscillator connections
are right.

I certainly hope that you find the gremlin in your radio.

73

Matthew
VK5ZM

On 3 April 2017 at 18:11, LA7NO  wrote:

> Hello group,
>
> I have several times experienced that the K3 receiver goes 100% dead. Same
> as if no antenna was connected.
> A smart bump on the K3 brings it back to normal.
>
> I suspect a relay. The question is which one?
> Suggestion anyone?
>
> 73,
>
> Per-Tore / LA7NO
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.
> nabble.com/K3-loss-of-rx-signal-tp7628912.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Edward R Cole]

Simple - use something better than PL-259's:

I mainly use N connectors for low loss/high power and BNC for low 
power inside the shack connections.  I also have TNC and sma connectors.


Most connectors need a 1/4 turn beyond finger tight for reliable 
connections.  Sure cure for loose connectors is heat shrink over 
them.  Not only seals from wx but also loosening due to vibration.


Want to see what vibration does?  Install a radio in a D8 cat without 
some kind of vibration damping.  I did long ago, and the Motorola 
100w VHF radio was a cabinet full of loose parts after 8-hours 
running of the cat.  Wonder why military radios are full of glyptol, 
or completely potted in plastic?


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Jim Brown]

When that happens, the connector inside the radio is either of inferior 
quality or the installation method is wrong. A PROPER chassis-mount 
female UHF connector either has four mounting screws to prevent it from 
rotating . While there are also connectors without those mounting screws 
with a square side to their circular body, they must be mounted on a 
chassis with a hole of the same shape, and the chassis must be "hard" 
enough that the connector cannot rotate. Any connector that rotates when 
pliers are used to tighten or remove a mating connector is WRONG!


73, Jim K9YC

On Mon,4/3/2017 8:50 AM, George Thornton wrote:

Exerting too much force with PL259’s can put stress on the radio SO 239 
connectors, I have had some of the internal mounts work loose over time.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Nr4c]

There's a difference in snug and tight. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Apr 3, 2017, at 10:19 AM, Phil Hystad  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Apr 3, 2017, at 5:25 AM, Nr4c  wrote:
>> 
>> Don't overlook the obvious.  Check to make sure the connectors are all very 
>> tight. "Hand snug" is not good enough!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> ...bc nr4c
> 
> What do you mean “Hand Snug” is not good enough?  I don’t remember any 
> connectors in the K3 that required a wrench to tighten nor do I ever use any 
> wrenches or even screwdrivers on any of the connectors outside the box (Coax, 
> RS232 serial, etc.).
> 
> Curious in Rainy Kirkland (nr Seattle)…
> 
> 73, phil, K7PEH
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Charlie T, K3ICH]

I would have thought the center pin would be smaller for higher Z connections 
(???).

Look at the size of the center conductor in a piece of RG-59/U.

Although, as usual I may have that completely wrong.

73, Charlie k3ICH





-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of 
danny.higg...@keme.co.uk
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 8:43 AM
To: Guy Olinger K2AV <k2av@gmail.com>; LA7NO <p...@ieee.org>; 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

I had a similar frustrating problem with a BNC patch lead. I bought some cheap 
leads at a rally and I didn’t notice that the plugs were 75 Ohms. The leads 
worked OK, but the centre pin was thicker than the 50 Ohm version and it 
splayed out the centre connector of the socket, so when I plugged a 50 Ohm 
patch cable back in, the centre pin did not make contact any more. It took me a 
long time to find the cause, and now all the 75 Ohm leads are in the bin.

73,

Danny, G3XVR



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[George Thornton]

Exerting too much force with PL259’s can put stress on the radio SO 239 
connectors, I have had some of the internal mounts work loose over time.

Top quality Amphenol connectors are more precisely machined, fit better and are 
much easier to work with.  I don’t get failures with these and hand tightening 
seems to be sufficient in most situations.

From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy 
Olinger K2AV
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 8:04 AM
To: Phil Hystad <phys...@mac.com>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Phil Hystad 
<phys...@mac.com><mailto:phys...@mac.com%3e> wrote:
> What do you mean “Hand Snug” is not good enough?

Lordee, I've seen, done, and heard of these things so many times...

PL259 the worst offender, with BNC close second. Mini-coax TMP in a
class by itself.

On the PL259, if the teeth around the edge of the mating shell aren't
aligned to move down into the teeth of the SO239, you can "tighten"
the PL259 to what seems tight, but a temperature change or a jiggle
will let the teeth align. The connector is now loose. A variety of
"false snugs" can occur with PL259, barrel, SO239 that have been
outdoors and gotten stuff in threads.

BNC's, if not inserted straight on, can seem snug, but not go down all
the way. Then the twist shell can go a distance and won't seem to want
to go any farther. It's very easy to not have enough finger strength
to twist the shell enough to go all the way down.

Mini-coax TMP connectors are bad because if the center pin does not
match inside the socket it won't go down and cause an infamous
intermittent that many have experienced. The flares on the male TMP
have to go down until they are prevented from further insertion by the
socket.

73, Guy K2AV
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gthorn...@thorntonmostullaw.com<mailto:gthorn...@thorntonmostullaw.com>


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Outdoors, PL259 tightened by hand in cool/cold weather will come loose
in warm weather. This is particularly vexing when the connection is up
on a tower out on a boom to a balun on the driven element.

Pliers plus maxi-sealing against the weather is the rule for these.

The teeth can be misaligned with stiff coax where you have to twist
the coax a bit to get the teeth.

Then there are the female UHF connections where there are only FOUR
notches on the female connection for the two teeth on the male
connector. That's very easy to get wrong.

73, Guy K2AV

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Phil Hystad  wrote:
> Don,
>
> In my experience, PL-259s do not get tightened properly when the little teeth 
> on the end do not engage properly.  So, when I tighten PL-259s, I make sure 
> that the teeth fit in together properly and this always gives a snug fit.  
> Note: I am not sure if these are called teeth or not.
>
> In almost 60 years of dealing with PL-259s the only time I needed pliers was 
> to undo the PL-259 connector that I had on my truck that had sealant on it 
> (it was very much in the weather) and stuck besides.
>
> Then again, I don’t ever remember having any loose connection problems with 
> PL-259s either.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
>> On Apr 3, 2017, at 7:42 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
>>
>> Phil,
>>
>> PL-259s depend on tightness to make a good connection to the shield.
>> This is an often overlooked cause of problems.
>> After hand tightening, snug them up just a bit more with pliers if you want 
>> them to be reliable.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 4/3/2017 10:19 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>>
 On Apr 3, 2017, at 5:25 AM, Nr4c  wrote:

 Don't overlook the obvious.  Check to make sure the connectors are all 
 very tight. "Hand snug" is not good enough!

 Sent from my iPad
 ...bc nr4c
>>>
>>> What do you mean “Hand Snug” is not good enough?
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Phil Hystad  wrote:
> What do you mean “Hand Snug” is not good enough?

Lordee, I've seen, done, and heard of these things so many times...

PL259 the worst offender, with BNC close second. Mini-coax TMP in a
class by itself.

On the PL259, if the teeth around the edge of the mating shell aren't
aligned to move down into the teeth of the SO239, you can "tighten"
the PL259 to what seems tight, but a temperature change or a jiggle
will let the teeth align. The connector is now loose.  A variety of
"false snugs" can occur with PL259, barrel, SO239 that have been
outdoors and gotten stuff in threads.

BNC's, if not inserted straight on, can seem snug, but not go down all
the way. Then the twist shell can go a distance and won't seem to want
to go any farther. It's very easy to not have enough finger strength
to twist the shell enough to go all the way down.

Mini-coax TMP connectors are bad because if the center pin does not
match inside the socket it won't go down and cause an infamous
intermittent that many have experienced. The flares on the male TMP
have to go down until they are prevented from further insertion by the
socket.

73, Guy K2AV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Phil Hystad]

Don,

In my experience, PL-259s do not get tightened properly when the little teeth 
on the end do not engage properly.  So, when I tighten PL-259s, I make sure 
that the teeth fit in together properly and this always gives a snug fit.  
Note: I am not sure if these are called teeth or not.

In almost 60 years of dealing with PL-259s the only time I needed pliers was to 
undo the PL-259 connector that I had on my truck that had sealant on it (it was 
very much in the weather) and stuck besides.

Then again, I don’t ever remember having any loose connection problems with 
PL-259s either.  

73, phil, K7PEH


> On Apr 3, 2017, at 7:42 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Phil,
> 
> PL-259s depend on tightness to make a good connection to the shield.
> This is an often overlooked cause of problems.
> After hand tightening, snug them up just a bit more with pliers if you want 
> them to be reliable.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 4/3/2017 10:19 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>> 
>>> On Apr 3, 2017, at 5:25 AM, Nr4c  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don't overlook the obvious.  Check to make sure the connectors are all very 
>>> tight. "Hand snug" is not good enough!
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> ...bc nr4c
>> 
>> What do you mean “Hand Snug” is not good enough?

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Don Wilhelm]

Phil,

PL-259s depend on tightness to make a good connection to the shield.
This is an often overlooked cause of problems.
After hand tightening, snug them up just a bit more with pliers if you 
want them to be reliable.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/3/2017 10:19 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:



On Apr 3, 2017, at 5:25 AM, Nr4c  wrote:

Don't overlook the obvious.  Check to make sure the connectors are all very tight. 
"Hand snug" is not good enough!

Sent from my iPad
...bc nr4c


What do you mean “Hand Snug” is not good enough?

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[kg9hfr...@gmail.com]

You may want to tap individual connectors carefully so “just one gets tapped”.
Frank KG9H

> On Apr 3, 2017, at 9:26 AM, LA7NO  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions. You are of course right.
> 
> The antenna connector is good, so I'll have to open up the K3 and check
> around here and there.
> It is quite 'full' with 2nd rx, PA and tuner, so some dismantling could be
> required to check most connections.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> 73,
> 
> Per-Tore / LA7NO
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-loss-of-rx-signal-tp7628912p7628922.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[LA7NO]

Thanks for the suggestions. You are of course right.

The antenna connector is good, so I'll have to open up the K3 and check
around here and there.
It is quite 'full' with 2nd rx, PA and tuner, so some dismantling could be
required to check most connections.





-
73,

Per-Tore / LA7NO

--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-loss-of-rx-signal-tp7628912p7628922.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Phil Hystad]

> On Apr 3, 2017, at 5:25 AM, Nr4c  wrote:
> 
> Don't overlook the obvious.  Check to make sure the connectors are all very 
> tight. "Hand snug" is not good enough!
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ...bc nr4c

What do you mean “Hand Snug” is not good enough?  I don’t remember any 
connectors in the K3 that required a wrench to tighten nor do I ever use any 
wrenches or even screwdrivers on any of the connectors outside the box (Coax, 
RS232 serial, etc.).

Curious in Rainy Kirkland (nr Seattle)…

73, phil, K7PEH

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[Elecraft] : K3 loss of rx signal

[Paul Antos]

Had same problem … retightened mounting hardware on synthesizer board.

Paul WB2ABD

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[danny.higgins]

I had a similar frustrating problem with a BNC patch lead. I bought some cheap 
leads at a rally and I didn’t notice that the plugs were 75 Ohms. The leads 
worked OK, but the centre pin was thicker than the 50 Ohm version and it 
splayed out the centre connector of the socket, so when I plugged a 50 Ohm 
patch cable back in, the centre pin did not make contact any more. It took me a 
long time to find the cause, and now all the 75 Ohm leads are in the bin.

73,

Danny, G3XVR

From: Guy Olinger K2AV
Sent: 03 April 2017 11:56
To: LA7NO; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

Could be a relay, however

The most common source of intermittents is cords and connectors that are
either only partially connected or have had wires stressed past breaking
but held together intermittently by insulation, or were never soldered, or
were poorly crimped in manufacture.

Banging on the K3 jiggles all the connections on the back of the K3.

Then there's RCA connectors not pushed in all the way or with too-short
pins for the socket and BNC connectors not twisted home.

RULE OUT the connections before tearing apart your K3.

Then inside there are the TMP mini coax connectors inside the K3 not seated
properly. Then pin connections to reseat several times. All these before
relays.

Relays will usually close again by repeatedly going TX RX TX RX TX RX

Don't ask me how much I tore apart before I figured it out or how close I
came to putting the K3 in the shipping box..

73, Guy K2AV


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Nr4c]

Don't overlook the obvious.  Check to make sure the connectors are all very 
tight. "Hand snug" is not good enough!

Sent from my iPad
...bc nr4c

> On Apr 3, 2017, at 4:41 AM, LA7NO  wrote:
> 
> Hello group,
> 
> I have several times experienced that the K3 receiver goes 100% dead. Same
> as if no antenna was connected.
> A smart bump on the K3 brings it back to normal.
> 
> I suspect a relay. The question is which one?
> Suggestion anyone?
> 
> 73,
> 
> Per-Tore / LA7NO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-loss-of-rx-signal-tp7628912.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Could be a relay, however

The most common source of intermittents is cords and connectors that are
either only partially connected or have had wires stressed past breaking
but held together intermittently by insulation, or were never soldered, or
were poorly crimped in manufacture.

Banging on the K3 jiggles all the connections on the back of the K3.

Then there's RCA connectors not pushed in all the way or with too-short
pins for the socket and BNC connectors not twisted home.

RULE OUT the connections before tearing apart your K3.

Then inside there are the TMP mini coax connectors inside the K3 not seated
properly. Then pin connections to reseat several times. All these before
relays.

Relays will usually close again by repeatedly going TX RX TX RX TX RX

Don't ask me how much I tore apart before I figured it out or how close I
came to putting the K3 in the shipping box..

73, Guy K2AV

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 4:43 AM LA7NO  wrote:

> Hello group,
>
> I have several times experienced that the K3 receiver goes 100% dead. Same
> as if no antenna was connected.
> A smart bump on the K3 brings it back to normal.
>
> I suspect a relay. The question is which one?
> Suggestion anyone?
>
> 73,
>
> Per-Tore / LA7NO
>
>
>
>
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[Elecraft] K3 loss of rx signal

[LA7NO]

Hello group,

I have several times experienced that the K3 receiver goes 100% dead. Same
as if no antenna was connected.
A smart bump on the K3 brings it back to normal.

I suspect a relay. The question is which one?
Suggestion anyone?

73,

Per-Tore / LA7NO




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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Loss of rx signal

[Stewart Baker]

Rick,
In one way I am sorry to hear that you have a problem with
occasional loss of RX after TX, however I am pleased that I am now
not the only one to report this problem !

I was hoping that the new F/W releases would rid my K3 of this
annoying phenomenon, but that did not happen...

I have a sequence which I can use to reproduce the loss of RX, and
you might like to try it.

POWER
80m LSB 3780
NOR
LO CUT=0.15
SAV ALT1
NOR
TX ON/OFF
ALT1
TX ON/OFF
Receive may be dead at this point

If not continue with
Select USB
ALT1
TX ON/OFF
Receive dead

Of course Y.M.M.V.

73
Stewart G3RXQ

On Sun, 4 May 2008 20:51:52 -0700 (PDT), AI1V wrote:

 When running some CW contacts on 40m, I had the unpleasant
experience of
 having the rx go almost totally dead (very low noise level - no
signals)
 immediately after calling a station.  Nothing seemed to recover
it so I
 power cycled the radio in time to hear the other station send
..--..  This
 happened a couple more times.  I hadn't notice this happening
before.  The
 only new thing I had recently tried was the ALT1/ALT2 filter
settings
 (pretty cool feature).  While it is somewhat unpredictable, the
phenomenon
 appears to be strongly correlated with the use of this feature.
 I have also
 found that I can recover from the dead rx condition by
tweaking the shift
 or sometimes the width, but sometimes that doesn't work and I
need to power
 cycle.  Since then I've stopped using ALT1/ALT2 and haven't had
it recur.
 Note: this problem appears in the new firmware as well as the
last revision.

 On a possibly related note - I was running the hi and low power
tx gain cal
 procedure after updating the firmware.  By mistake I spun the
width knob
 instead of the pwr knob to adjust the power.  At some point the
filter setup
 got quite hosed - the width display showed around 4 khz, but the
passband
 display was at minimum width.  The next time I tried keying
(holding tune) I
 got the nefarious ERR TXF message!  I also noticed that the
noise level on
 the rx was way down (I was connected to a dummy load) from where
it was
 earlier.  Power cycling the radio brought everything back to
normal and I
 completed the cal.

 It appears that something is whacking filter parameters in the
DSP - or at
 least that's what it's acting like.  I've reported this to
support at
 elecraft.

 Nevertheless, the radio kicks butt.  The mojo is alive and well
- worked 18
 states this weekend including the west coast on 40CW loading my
rain gutter
 through an SGC tuner!

 Rick
 AI1V
 K3 728


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[Elecraft] K3: Loss of rx signal

[AI1V]

When running some CW contacts on 40m, I had the unpleasant experience of
having the rx go almost totally dead (very low noise level - no signals)
immediately after calling a station.  Nothing seemed to recover it so I
power cycled the radio in time to hear the other station send ..--..  This
happened a couple more times.  I hadn't notice this happening before.  The
only new thing I had recently tried was the ALT1/ALT2 filter settings
(pretty cool feature).  While it is somewhat unpredictable, the phenomenon
appears to be strongly correlated with the use of this feature.  I have also
found that I can recover from the dead rx condition by tweaking the shift
or sometimes the width, but sometimes that doesn't work and I need to power
cycle.  Since then I've stopped using ALT1/ALT2 and haven't had it recur. 
Note: this problem appears in the new firmware as well as the last revision.

On a possibly related note - I was running the hi and low power tx gain cal
procedure after updating the firmware.  By mistake I spun the width knob
instead of the pwr knob to adjust the power.  At some point the filter setup
got quite hosed - the width display showed around 4 khz, but the passband
display was at minimum width.  The next time I tried keying (holding tune) I
got the nefarious ERR TXF message!  I also noticed that the noise level on
the rx was way down (I was connected to a dummy load) from where it was
earlier.  Power cycling the radio brought everything back to normal and I
completed the cal.

It appears that something is whacking filter parameters in the DSP - or at
least that's what it's acting like.  I've reported this to support at
elecraft.

Nevertheless, the radio kicks butt.  The mojo is alive and well - worked 18
states this weekend including the west coast on 40CW loading my rain gutter
through an SGC tuner!

Rick
AI1V
K3 728
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