Re: [Elecraft] OT: The 4-track mind

[G4GNX]

I had considered that. 藍藍

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700




> On 14 Dec 2023, at 17:47, Rick NK7I  wrote:
> 
> Or the reverse, as any spouse can affirm hi hi.
> 
> 73,
> Rick nk7i
> 
> 
> On 12/14/2023 5:09 AM, G4GNX wrote:
>> The human mind (when trained) can be quite adept at selective listening.

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: The 4-track mind

[G4GNX]

Sounds like Bob Milne has two brains, or perhaps he’s using left and right side 
for the same purpose. He’d certainly give so-called AI a run for its money. 
Remarkable.

Well done with the harmonica and guitar. I’ve seen it done but not tried it 
myself, mainly because I’m abysmal with a guitar. 藍

Another guy I’ve seen perform an odd feat was the late, great Jackie Brown, who 
was obviously listening to some guy playing an electronic keyboard and must 
have heard a wrong phrase. Jackie walked over to the console, leaned over the 
back and proceeded to play the piece “upside down” and in the same key, 
remarking “that’s how it actually goes!”

With your discrimination, it seems you might get an extra duty as a tuner. 藍

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700




> On 14 Dec 2023, at 03:01, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Dec 13, 2023, at 5:58 PM, G4GNX > > wrote:
>> 
>> C’mon Wayne, what’s your take on all of this?
> 
> First, I think Bob Milne (subject of the podcast) is in a class by himself. 
> He's able to virtually play back the audio of up to 4 symphonies with 
> different keys and tempos in his head, simultaneously, and when queried at a 
> random time, report where each of them is in the score +/- one second. He 
> also has a very sophisticated "chunking" method for different 
> major/minor/seventh/etc. keys, remembers pieces after hearing them once, and 
> can visualize musicians in great detail while they're playing in his internal 
> performance hall. This is superhuman by any definition.
> 
> My personal best in this regard is to play harmonica and guitar at the same 
> time on "Heart of Gold." Oh, and during Field Day one year, I discriminated 
> two CW signals that were at virtually the same pitch and amplitude using only 
> phase information. For the latter feat I was awarded an extra pizza ration by 
> my temporarily stunned co-pilot.
> 
> Wayne
> N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: The 4-track mind

[G4GNX]

Actually with Theatre Pipe organs (as opposed to trackers) the key press to 
pipe speaking is almost instantaneous except with some bass pipes which are 
naturally a bit slow - it takes some time for sound to travel the length of a 
16’ or (worse) 32’ pipe, or if a particular magnet is a bit reluctant to 
operate.

The real problem is where the pipe chambers are situated a long way from the 
console. The worst one I played was in the Sutton Plaza (UK) which had a delay 
of over 2 seconds. The only way to deal with it is to close your mind to the 
sound and rely on your inner clock to get your timing right when playing 
rhythmical pieces. A bit like listening to a QSO that’s buried in the noise. 
The human mind (when trained) can be quite adept at selective listening.

Many Theatre Organs also have a piano attached and that can be just as 
disconcerting if the piano’s a long way from the organ console.

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700




> On 14 Dec 2023, at 11:22, David Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> I think you have forgotten the fact that there is a pause between when the 
> pipe organist presses a key and the sound actually happens.  Add that to all 
> the things mentioned previously.  I tried it once while talking to a pipe 
> organ student at my college… very discomfiting.  At least to a piano student. 
> 
> Dave K8WPE 
> 
> David J. Wilcox’s iPad
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: The 4-track mind

[Wayne Burdick]

> On Dec 13, 2023, at 5:58 PM, G4GNX  wrote:
> 
> C’mon Wayne, what’s your take on all of this?

First, I think Bob Milne (subject of the podcast) is in a class by himself. 
He's able to virtually play back the audio of up to 4 symphonies with different 
keys and tempos in his head, simultaneously, and when queried at a random time, 
report where each of them is in the score +/- one second. He also has a very 
sophisticated "chunking" method for different major/minor/seventh/etc. keys, 
remembers pieces after hearing them once, and can visualize musicians in great 
detail while they're playing in his internal performance hall. This is 
superhuman by any definition.

My personal best in this regard is to play harmonica and guitar at the same 
time on "Heart of Gold." Oh, and during Field Day one year, I discriminated two 
CW signals that were at virtually the same pitch and amplitude using only phase 
information. For the latter feat I was awarded an extra pizza ration by my 
temporarily stunned co-pilot.

Wayne
N6KR



> 
> 73,
> Alan - G4GNX
> South Coast UK
> Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Dec 2023, at 21:16, David Haines  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for this, Alan.  As a pianist who loves ragtime and contrapuntal 
>> Bach, I understand well what you say.  I've always been in awe of organists, 
>> especially theatre organists.
>> 
>> david
>> 
>> kc1dny
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: The 4-track mind

[G4GNX]

Thanks for the kind words David. I too like Ragtime, especially Joplin.

You have some great Theatre Organists in the USA. If you fancy a good concert 
sometime, keep an eye out for Dave Wickerham, Walt Strony and Clark Wilson. 
There are many more, but I’ve used enough bandwidth already. 

C’mon Wayne, what’s your take on all of this?

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700




> On 13 Dec 2023, at 21:16, David Haines  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for this, Alan.  As a pianist who loves ragtime and contrapuntal Bach, 
> I understand well what you say.  I've always been in awe of organists, 
> especially theatre organists.
> 
> david
> 
> kc1dny

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: The 4-track mind

[G4GNX]

Yeah sight reading too, but it can be a pain. Unless the score is written for 
Theatre Organ i.e. with 3 staves - the bottom one being the bass line, with 
only 2 staves (such as a piano score) the pedal work does have to be 
improvised, whilst sight reading (usually) chords and melody. Sounds like Skip 
was really proficient at playing the pedals.

I find the piano more difficult because it relies on touch and finger pressure 
to implement expression, whereas the organ usually relies on just selecting 
notes on the keyboards and using an expression pedal to control volume.

There are a couple of sneaky tricks that can be put to good use. 2nd Touch is 
often used where you press the keys normally and you hear a selection of 
voices, but pressing the same keys quite hard against spring pressure a further 
set of different voices will be added. This can sometimes be implemented by the 
pedals, but it’s not found on many organs.

The 2nd ’trick’ is called Sostenuto (invented by the late John Seng) where you 
lay down a chord on a manual, kick and hold the Sostenuto lever, and the chord 
is held until the lever is released. This allows you to use the same hand to 
play single notes on the same manual.

I must admit that it’s all impressive to watch, but I find it not so much easy, 
but quite natural.

I do admire the guys who use break-in when conversing in Morse code, just like 
they were having an (almost) duplex conversation with each other. That’s clever 
and worth listening to.  

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700




> On 13 Dec 2023, at 19:18, Josh Fiden  wrote:
> 
> If you’re playing 2 lines plus pedals AND sight reading it, I’m definitely 
> impressed!
> 
> Most of the time when I saw Skip play it was R with pretty complex bass 
> lines requiring both feet and improvising solos. 
> 
> I started out as a cellist, anything beyond double stops is a bit mind 
> boggling to me. Playing guitar now mostly chords & single note lines. Reminds 
> me I should practice. Ha
> 
> I wonder how much can be developed vs innate ability. At least I’m not tone 
> deaf..
> 
> 73
> Josh W6XU
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: The 4-track mind

[G4GNX]

Here’s a link to the example mentioned in my previous reply. For some reason 
the Mac decided to send the last one as a video attachment!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt3S-F2t5ss

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700




> On 12 Dec 2023, at 18:51, Josh Fiden  wrote:
> 
> Great. Years ago I knew a keyboard player Skip Van Winkle. Saw him play many 
> times with Dallas Hodge & some of the Tower of Power guys, plus a host of 
> other incredible players. Besides being quite a character, he would play 
> rhythm & lead parts on a B3 and kick great bass lines with both feet. And 
> yes, hold a conversation with you at the same time. 
> 
> Distressing to think mastering SO2R contesting may be genetic. 
> 
> 73
> Josh W6XU
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: The 4-track mind

[G4GNX]

I don’t consider myself anywhere near up there with the best, but what you 
describe is not unusual amongst Theatre Pipe organists. I’m not sure if it’s 
something we’re born with or whether it’s learned, mainly by practice.

The organist will often be playing 2 manuals (keyboards) at the same time, as 
well as running a bass line with one or both feet, alternating using the right 
foot from the bass pedals to one of several expression pedals (volume controls) 
or keeping their right foot against a sostenuto (special sustain) foot lever. 
All simultaneously with bridging one or both hands to select a note or two on 
one or two more manuals, and occasionally selecting some stops or pressing a 
thumb piston to select a combination of stops. Sometimes reading music from a 
score in front of of them *and* holding a conversation (during the easier 
parts).

For some reason this message was previously rejected for being too big!! It had 
a link with an example of a good friend of mine playing a Theatre Pipe Organ in 
a residence in Australia:
I’ll send that under a separate message.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt3S-F2t5ss

Apologies for the off (radio) topic reply, but Wayne started it. 藍

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700





> On 12 Dec 2023, at 18:51, Josh Fiden  wrote:
> 
> Great. Years ago I knew a keyboard player Skip Van Winkle. Saw him play many 
> times with Dallas Hodge & some of the Tower of Power guys, plus a host of 
> other incredible players. Besides being quite a character, he would play 
> rhythm & lead parts on a B3 and kick great bass lines with both feet. And 
> yes, hold a conversation with you at the same time. 
> 
> Distressing to think mastering SO2R contesting may be genetic. 
> 
> 73
> Josh W6XU
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: The 4-track mind

[Wes]

I tried to listen to this but I couldn't get very far past the NPR voices.


On 12/9/2023 5:37 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

Occasionally I stumble on something too incredible to not share, immediately, 
with everyone. In this case I'm inclined to not even apologize for using the 
bandwidth. At least not in advance.

Anyone intrigued by human perception of sound, especially musicians and 
ambidextrous CW ops, will find this fascinating, baffling, and perhaps 
enlightening in some way I can't predict:

https://radiolab.org/podcast/4-track-mind-2312

73,
Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] OT: The 4-track mind

[Josh Fiden]

Great. Years ago I knew a keyboard player Skip Van Winkle. Saw him play many 
times with Dallas Hodge & some of the Tower of Power guys, plus a host of other 
incredible players. Besides being quite a character, he would play rhythm & 
lead parts on a B3 and kick great bass lines with both feet. And yes, hold a 
conversation with you at the same time. 

Distressing to think mastering SO2R contesting may be genetic. 

73
Josh W6XU

> On Dec 9, 2023, at 4:37 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> Occasionally I stumble on something too incredible to not share, 
> immediately, with everyone. In this case I'm inclined to not even apologize 
> for using the bandwidth. At least not in advance.
> 
> Anyone intrigued by human perception of sound, especially musicians and 
> ambidextrous CW ops, will find this fascinating, baffling, and perhaps 
> enlightening in some way I can't predict:
> 
>   https://radiolab.org/podcast/4-track-mind-2312
> 
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> __
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: The 4-track mind

[Jessie Oberreuter]

 I'm one of those people with music constantly playing in my head, and 
I do occasionally end up hearing either two pieces or two different parts 
of the same piece running concurrently.  It's totally in the background -- 
the music just plays along pretty much no matter what I'm doing, like 
someone left a record player running.  I don't think the "frontal lobe" is 
involved at all except as an occasional listener.  Architecturally, I 
suspect that the parts of my brain that record and play back music tend to 
just idle in playback mode, and my conscious brain doesn't do much of 
anything to suppress them or block it out.



On Sun, 10 Dec 2023, Mike Short wrote:


My father worked with a guy in the Army (57-60 era) that was a CW operator.
He copied code groups with split headphones, his left ear on a typewriter,
right ear written down, speaker in front of him he remembered until a pause
in one of the other messages and copied it down. He did have to be locked
up a few times per year.

Mike AI4NS

On Sat, Dec 9, 2023 at 18:38 Wayne Burdick  wrote:


Occasionally I stumble on something too incredible to not share,
immediately, with everyone. In this case I'm inclined to not even apologize
for using the bandwidth. At least not in advance.

Anyone intrigued by human perception of sound, especially musicians and
ambidextrous CW ops, will find this fascinating, baffling, and perhaps
enlightening in some way I can't predict:

   https://radiolab.org/podcast/4-track-mind-2312

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: The 4-track mind

[Mike Short]

My father worked with a guy in the Army (57-60 era) that was a CW operator.
He copied code groups with split headphones, his left ear on a typewriter,
right ear written down, speaker in front of him he remembered until a pause
in one of the other messages and copied it down. He did have to be locked
up a few times per year.

Mike AI4NS

On Sat, Dec 9, 2023 at 18:38 Wayne Burdick  wrote:

> Occasionally I stumble on something too incredible to not share,
> immediately, with everyone. In this case I'm inclined to not even apologize
> for using the bandwidth. At least not in advance.
>
> Anyone intrigued by human perception of sound, especially musicians and
> ambidextrous CW ops, will find this fascinating, baffling, and perhaps
> enlightening in some way I can't predict:
>
>https://radiolab.org/podcast/4-track-mind-2312
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
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[Elecraft] OT: The 4-track mind

[Wayne Burdick]

Occasionally I stumble on something too incredible to not share, immediately, 
with everyone. In this case I'm inclined to not even apologize for using the 
bandwidth. At least not in advance.

Anyone intrigued by human perception of sound, especially musicians and 
ambidextrous CW ops, will find this fascinating, baffling, and perhaps 
enlightening in some way I can't predict:

   https://radiolab.org/podcast/4-track-mind-2312

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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