[Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
Dave: First and last comment to this OT thread, but I couldnt let your comment go past me without a small challenge :) Obviously you have not lived for any appreciable time in Central and Southern Florida, the lightning capital of the world! We have lost at least two TV sets, one dryer, multiple computer monitors and other electronics to my Zap Cap equipped home since I moved here from Pennsylvania in 1985. Up north, I never had a problem! Havent lost a washer though (famous last words as the 3:30pm thunderstorm clouds begin to build...) Its not just me, others in the neighborhood have as well. Our club recently lost an Astron 35, plus the Icom ID-800 that was attached to it, and we have what I consider a very good grounding system. ALL the rigs at the club are disconnected from the antennas at our patch bay as well. I have had several UPS's die to protect our connected electronics at home and at work as well. Commercial class big ones like a 10kW Best Power Ferrups at our Tampa TV transmitter site. That one started a small fire. At my former Television stations in FtMyers, it was a regular occurence to replace parts of the transmitter remote control system and WX radar after lightning strikes to both our stations, even with high capacity isolation and streamer dissipator systems on the tower, buildings and the Doppler radar pedestal. No matter how much you harden systems for lightning and try to abate it with streamer dissipators and high capacity grounding systems here, its gonna get you eventually. Mother nature is just that way here. We live with this daily in the summer, and ARRL insurance is a must here. You have Earthquakes, Mudslides and Fires. We have Lightning and Hurricanes. BTW, my ham station is directly adjecent to the laundry area, with one of those office fiberglass filled partitions between the laundry area and my op desk. Our Sears Kenmore washer's transmission makes a trememdous whining ruckus when on spin, but otherwise, all is quiet on the power front. Same with the Sears Kenmore dryer. Worst operational issue is the noise when the washer is in spin cycle and my wife is drying something hard. Whine! Klunkedy Klunk! Whine! I have cultivated the headset habit. Lu-W4LT K3 #3192 Message: 10 Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:19:55 -0700 From: David Gilbert xda...@cis-broadband.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines To: 'Elecraft Reflector' elecraft@mailman.qth.net Message-ID: 4aa6ca7b.70...@cis-broadband.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I worked in the discrete semi industry (engineer and then business manager) for thirty years, dealing with most of the major appliance companies in Asia, Europe, and the U.S. By their own statements, the mechanical timer was far and away the most failure prone component in any washing machine. The appliance industry in general resisted solid state controls for a long time due to inertia and tooling investments, but the first area where they came to us actively seeking help was to replace that damn mechanical timer. They were just fed up with the customer complaints and the high costs of in-warranty service calls. Aside from people like hams who have all sorts of tall metal outside connected one way or another to their electrical ground system, what percentage of people do you think have their washing machines zapped by nearby lightning strikes? I can pretty much guarantee that it is a much, much smaller number than the percentage of mechanical timers that failed in the old washing machines. Dave AB7E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
Leigh From your research, would you conclude that the machine did not comply with emc regulations? This sort of problem is, as we all know, common with many imported computers, shipped with filters designed in but obviously missing. Is this a sign that industry in general is prepared to save a few $ per machine and have very few complaints from their customers? After all, as a proportion of the population, how many would notice? David G3UNA I posted an eHam article about this a couple of years ago. (In fact, if you do duet rfi on Google you'll find me pretty quickly.) I get about two messages a month from hams who have the Whirlpool Duet series and have terrible RFI problems. Universally, when I advise they call Whirlpool and complain, they report back that they were told that they were the first person ever to report the problem. On eHam, someone responded with his own article and I took the suggested steps: AC line filter, better ground, some ferrites and wire re-routing inside the washer. Plus I partially remodeled my house, put in a new ground system, and put in a tower and yagi. The noise went from S9+60 to S3. An improvement only by comparison. Along the way I spoke with engineers at Whirlpool, received a whole complete set of new innards from them, and did a lot of other research. Despite their willingness to talk to me on the phone and send me parts (which didn't help) I think th best solution is to buy something else. Leigh/WA5ZNU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 07:16:18 +0100, David Cutter wrote: From your research, would you conclude that the machine did not comply with emc regulations? NO! FCC Rules give noise makers built into appliances and lighting equipment a complete exemption from EMC rules. Again, this is a topic for the RFI reflector. ALL of this has been discussed there, in great detail, including by folks who work in the EMC world. Like all the contesting.com reflectors, you can search threads and read them from the contesting.com website. And you can join if you like. 73, Jim Brown K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
Ok There is something to be said about keeping with older technology. Why does a washer and dryer need to have a microprocessor? Timers have done the job for many years. Lee - K0WA In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? From: Don Rasmussen wb8...@yahoo.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 9:23:45 PM Subject: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines I've been stuck for a couple years now with a Whirlpool Duet front loading washing machine. The internal MCU and switcher power supply trashes entire HF at S9 +10, I have to use an MFJ-1026 to remedy this. Whirlpool Duet and Maytag Neptune are notoroius for this with no known sure fire remedies at the device. Happily? The wife is NOT happy with the washer, seems it acts more like a dishwasher with respect to cleaning power, that it to say VERY light duty. A tiny amount of water tossed about some dirty socks, well you get the idea. I need suggestions on large capacity top loaders that habe a clean bill of health in an HF environment. Please email your suggestion to wb8yqj at yahoo dot com so I might clean up my act before the bands open for the Fall. TIA, Don __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
Perhaps because microcontroller-based control circuits might be less expensive to manufacture than the mechanical devices they replace, offer flexibility for features that are deal-makers in a competitive marketplace, have shorter lead time for changes, are less subject to mechanical failure (wear) than the timers they replace, and might result in higher reliability of that portion of the product? These are generally the reasons... Dick, K6KR -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lee Buller Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:06 AM To: Don Rasmussen; Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines Ok There is something to be said about keeping with older technology. Why does a washer and dryer need to have a microprocessor? Timers have done the job for many years. Lee - K0WA In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? From: Don Rasmussen wb8...@yahoo.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 9:23:45 PM Subject: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines I've been stuck for a couple years now with a Whirlpool Duet front loading washing machine. The internal MCU and switcher power supply trashes entire HF at S9 +10, I have to use an MFJ-1026 to remedy this. Whirlpool Duet and Maytag Neptune are notoroius for this with no known sure fire remedies at the device. Happily? The wife is NOT happy with the washer, seems it acts more like a dishwasher with respect to cleaning power, that it to say VERY light duty. A tiny amount of water tossed about some dirty socks, well you get the idea. I need suggestions on large capacity top loaders that habe a clean bill of health in an HF environment. Please email your suggestion to wb8yqj at yahoo dot com so I might clean up my act before the bands open for the Fall. TIA, Don __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
Advantage to them not I or us here. Reliability is questionable... After a spike induced by lightning a $479 dishwasher needs a $350 PCB replacement rather than a much cheaper mechanical timer. And there doesn't seem to be any option on board parts, just replace the PCB. Were I to have one of the GE Duets mentioned here I think I would unplug it when I wanted to play Radio. But I agree that the point is valid I should not have to do that. I can only hope a neighbor doesn't get one... Or have they?, is that the new high noise level on 160/80. 73, Bob K2TK Dick Dievendorff wrote: Perhaps because microcontroller-based control circuits might be less expensive to manufacture than the mechanical devices they replace, offer flexibility for features that are deal-makers in a competitive marketplace, have shorter lead time for changes, are less subject to mechanical failure (wear) than the timers they replace, and might result in higher reliability of that portion of the product? These are generally the reasons... Dick, K6KR -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lee Buller Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:06 AM To: Don Rasmussen; Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines Ok There is something to be said about keeping with older technology. Why does a washer and dryer need to have a microprocessor? Timers have done the job for many years. Lee - K0WA In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? From: Don Rasmussen wb8...@yahoo.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 9:23:45 PM Subject: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines I've been stuck for a couple years now with a Whirlpool Duet front loading washing machine. The internal MCU and switcher power supply trashes entire HF at S9 +10, I have to use an MFJ-1026 to remedy this. Whirlpool Duet and Maytag Neptune are notoroius for this with no known sure fire remedies at the device. Happily? The wife is NOT happy with the washer, seems it acts more like a dishwasher with respect to cleaning power, that it to say VERY light duty. A tiny amount of water tossed about some dirty socks, well you get the idea. I need suggestions on large capacity top loaders that habe a clean bill of health in an HF environment. Please email your suggestion to wb8yqj at yahoo dot com so I might clean up my act before the bands open for the Fall. TIA, Don __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
K6KR wrote: Yours is anecdotal evidence based on small sample dizes. The manufacturers have the data for large numbers. Frankly, I doubt whether sample size has anything to do with it. It's much more likely to be the ability to meet current marketplace demands cheaply (these include consumer preferences for gee whiz features, as well as energy efficiency criteria). Manufacturers and consumers measure reliability in different ways. To the consumer, unreliability is measured by failure to function as desired. To the manufacturer, unreliability is measured by warranty and repair calls, or perhaps if the issue becomes widely enough known to affect consumer confidence in the product, by negative impact on sales. These consumer and manufacturer measures can be very different. If the typical consumer response to a failure is to go out and buy another unit from the same manufacturer, perhaps even a more expensive model, then unreliability, at least with respect to that particular failure mode, is actually good for the manufacturer's balance sheet. 73, Rich VE3KI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
Yours is anecdotal evidence based on small sample dizes. The manufacturers have the data for large numbers. Dick,K6KR Sent from my iPhone On Sep 8, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote: and might result in higher reliability of that portion of the product? Not hardly ... last time I visited my mother, I repaired a pump seal in her 40 year old Westinghouse front loading washer. The mechanical timer is still running perfectly after all these years ... and doing as many as 8 - 10 loads a week while we were growing up. Those mechanical timer designs came from the commercial (coin operated) world where they did hundreds of loads (cycles) a week with nary a failure ... I maintained many of those machines while working for my dad in high school and college. The only advantage of the microprocessors are quick time to market and the ability to implement water/energy saving cycles demanded by the enviro-nuts at the cost of EMI pollution. The microprocessor controls certainly do not survive in a surge/spike/lightning rich environment nearly as well as the properly designed/sized mechanical timers. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dick Dievendorff Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 1:46 PM To: 'Lee Buller'; 'Don Rasmussen'; 'Elecraft Reflector' Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines Perhaps because microcontroller-based control circuits might be less expensive to manufacture than the mechanical devices they replace, offer flexibility for features that are deal-makers in a competitive marketplace, have shorter lead time for changes, are less subject to mechanical failure (wear) than the timers they replace, and might result in higher reliability of that portion of the product? These are generally the reasons... Dick, K6KR -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lee Buller Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:06 AM To: Don Rasmussen; Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines Ok There is something to be said about keeping with older technology. Why does a washer and dryer need to have a microprocessor? Timers have done the job for many years. Lee - K0WA In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? From: Don Rasmussen wb8...@yahoo.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 9:23:45 PM Subject: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines I've been stuck for a couple years now with a Whirlpool Duet front loading washing machine. The internal MCU and switcher power supply trashes entire HF at S9 +10, I have to use an MFJ-1026 to remedy this. Whirlpool Duet and Maytag Neptune are notoroius for this with no known sure fire remedies at the device. Happily? The wife is NOT happy with the washer, seems it acts more like a dishwasher with respect to cleaning power, that it to say VERY light duty. A tiny amount of water tossed about some dirty socks, well you get the idea. I need suggestions on large capacity top loaders that habe a clean bill of health in an HF environment. Please email your suggestion to wb8yqj at yahoo dot com so I might clean up my act before the bands open for the Fall. TIA, Don __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
I worked in the discrete semi industry (engineer and then business manager) for thirty years, dealing with most of the major appliance companies in Asia, Europe, and the U.S. By their own statements, the mechanical timer was far and away the most failure prone component in any washing machine. The appliance industry in general resisted solid state controls for a long time due to inertia and tooling investments, but the first area where they came to us actively seeking help was to replace that damn mechanical timer. They were just fed up with the customer complaints and the high costs of in-warranty service calls. Aside from people like hams who have all sorts of tall metal outside connected one way or another to their electrical ground system, what percentage of people do you think have their washing machines zapped by nearby lightning strikes? I can pretty much guarantee that it is a much, much smaller number than the percentage of mechanical timers that failed in the old washing machines. Dave AB7E Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: and might result in higher reliability of that portion of the product? Not hardly ... last time I visited my mother, I repaired a pump seal in her 40 year old Westinghouse front loading washer. The mechanical timer is still running perfectly after all these years ... and doing as many as 8 - 10 loads a week while we were growing up. Those mechanical timer designs came from the commercial (coin operated) world where they did hundreds of loads (cycles) a week with nary a failure ... I maintained many of those machines while working for my dad in high school and college. The only advantage of the microprocessors are quick time to market and the ability to implement water/energy saving cycles demanded by the enviro-nuts at the cost of EMI pollution. The microprocessor controls certainly do not survive in a surge/spike/lightning rich environment nearly as well as the properly designed/sized mechanical timers. 73, ... Joe, W4TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
and might result in higher reliability of that portion of the product? Not hardly ... last time I visited my mother, I repaired a pump seal in her 40 year old Westinghouse front loading washer. The mechanical timer is still running perfectly after all these years ... and doing as many as 8 - 10 loads a week while we were growing up. Those mechanical timer designs came from the commercial (coin operated) world where they did hundreds of loads (cycles) a week with nary a failure ... I maintained many of those machines while working for my dad in high school and college. The only advantage of the microprocessors are quick time to market and the ability to implement water/energy saving cycles demanded by the enviro-nuts at the cost of EMI pollution. The microprocessor controls certainly do not survive in a surge/spike/lightning rich environment nearly as well as the properly designed/sized mechanical timers. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dick Dievendorff Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 1:46 PM To: 'Lee Buller'; 'Don Rasmussen'; 'Elecraft Reflector' Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines Perhaps because microcontroller-based control circuits might be less expensive to manufacture than the mechanical devices they replace, offer flexibility for features that are deal-makers in a competitive marketplace, have shorter lead time for changes, are less subject to mechanical failure (wear) than the timers they replace, and might result in higher reliability of that portion of the product? These are generally the reasons... Dick, K6KR -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lee Buller Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:06 AM To: Don Rasmussen; Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines Ok There is something to be said about keeping with older technology. Why does a washer and dryer need to have a microprocessor? Timers have done the job for many years. Lee - K0WA In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? From: Don Rasmussen wb8...@yahoo.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 9:23:45 PM Subject: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines I've been stuck for a couple years now with a Whirlpool Duet front loading washing machine. The internal MCU and switcher power supply trashes entire HF at S9 +10, I have to use an MFJ-1026 to remedy this. Whirlpool Duet and Maytag Neptune are notoroius for this with no known sure fire remedies at the device. Happily? The wife is NOT happy with the washer, seems it acts more like a dishwasher with respect to cleaning power, that it to say VERY light duty. A tiny amount of water tossed about some dirty socks, well you get the idea. I need suggestions on large capacity top loaders that habe a clean bill of health in an HF environment. Please email your suggestion to wb8yqj at yahoo dot com so I might clean up my act before the bands open for the Fall. TIA, Don __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
That might be the case with some generic products, but not for most consumer electronics and certainly not for major appliances. Even when your TV or DVD player fails most people avoid that manufacturer like the plague (at least for the next few product cycles), if not out of fear of a repeat, then simply to get even. How many people do you think would buy a second K3 if their first one simply failed due to a manufacturing flaw that wasn't adequately addressed by Elecraft? I know of no manufacturer ... not a single one ... who considers product unreliability to be good for the balance sheet. History has proven time and time again quite the contrary. Dave AB7E Richard Ferch wrote: If the typical consumer response to a failure is to go out and buy another unit from the same manufacturer, perhaps even a more expensive model, then unreliability, at least with respect to that particular failure mode, is actually good for the manufacturer's balance sheet. 73, Rich VE3KI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
The only advantage of the microprocessors are quick time to market and the ability to implement water/energy saving cycles demanded by the enviro-nuts at the cost of EMI pollution. Excuse me? Front loading machines use far less water and detergent (both beneficial) and generally result in more effective cleaning than your mechanically timed top-loader. My own household machine produces no detectible EMI. But then I don't have my Elecraft (just to keep something even remotely if just barely related to the Elecraft list) radios in the laundry room either. Grant/NQ5T Certified enviro-nut __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
More anecdotal evidence... I just replaced a gas valve solenoid coil in my dryer-- the first repair it's needed in 30 years. The matching washer hasn't had any problems yet. Nice dryer... it just dries the clothes. It doesn't have to worry about the kinds of things a microprocessor based clothes dryer probably does: multitasking, wifi-connectivity, social networking, remote control and monitoring by White House Environmental Office, etc. etc. 73, Drew AF2Z On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 06:06:20 -0700 (PDT), Lee - K0WA wrote: Ok There is something to be said about keeping with older technology. Why does a washer and dryer need to have a microprocessor? Timers have done the job for many years. Lee - K0WA In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
I've been stuck for a couple years now with a Whirlpool Duet front loading washing machine. The internal MCU and switcher power supply trashes entire HF at S9 +10, I have to use an MFJ-1026 to remedy this. Whirlpool Duet and Maytag Neptune are notoroius for this with no known sure fire remedies at the device. Happily? The wife is NOT happy with the washer, seems it acts more like a dishwasher with respect to cleaning power, that it to say VERY light duty. A tiny amount of water tossed about some dirty socks, well you get the idea. I need suggestions on large capacity top loaders that habe a clean bill of health in an HF environment. Please email your suggestion to wb8yqj at yahoo dot com so I might clean up my act before the bands open for the Fall. TIA, Don __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
Don Read down through this thread. You might want to contact this guy. http://lists.contesting.com/_rfi/2005-02/msg00041.html Steve N4LQ n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Don Rasmussen wb8...@yahoo.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:23 PM Subject: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines I've been stuck for a couple years now with a Whirlpool Duet front loading washing machine. The internal MCU and switcher power supply trashes entire HF at S9 +10, I have to use an MFJ-1026 to remedy this. Whirlpool Duet and Maytag Neptune are notoroius for this with no known sure fire remedies at the device. Happily? The wife is NOT happy with the washer, seems it acts more like a dishwasher with respect to cleaning power, that it to say VERY light duty. A tiny amount of water tossed about some dirty socks, well you get the idea. I need suggestions on large capacity top loaders that habe a clean bill of health in an HF environment. Please email your suggestion to wb8yqj at yahoo dot com so I might clean up my act before the bands open for the Fall. TIA, Don __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.83/2352 - Release Date: 09/07/09 18:03:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 19:23:45 -0700 (PDT), Don Rasmussen wrote: I've been stuck for a couple years now with a Whirlpool Duet front loading washing machine. The internal MCU and switcher power supply trashes entire HF at S9 +10, Your post is timely. As it happens, there are two recent threads (begun on Friday or Saturday) on the RFI reflector on this topic. I suggest that you head over to contesting.com and read them. It IS off topic here, so I won't say more. :) 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RFI from Front Loading Washing Machines
On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 19:23:45 -0700 (PDT), Don Rasmussen wrote: I've been stuck for a couple years now with a Whirlpool Duet front loading washing machine. The internal MCU and switcher power supply trashes entire HF at S9 +10, Your post is timely. As it happens, there are two recent threads (begun on Friday or Saturday) on the RFI reflector on this topic. I suggest that you head over to contesting.com and read them. It IS off topic here, so I won't say more. :) 73, Jim K9YC I posted an eHam article about this a couple of years ago. (In fact, if you do duet rfi on Google you'll find me pretty quickly.) I get about two messages a month from hams who have the Whirlpool Duet series and have terrible RFI problems. Universally, when I advise they call Whirlpool and complain, they report back that they were told that they were the first person ever to report the problem. On eHam, someone responded with his own article and I took the suggested steps: AC line filter, better ground, some ferrites and wire re-routing inside the washer. Plus I partially remodeled my house, put in a new ground system, and put in a tower and yagi. The noise went from S9+60 to S3. An improvement only by comparison. Along the way I spoke with engineers at Whirlpool, received a whole complete set of new innards from them, and did a lot of other research. Despite their willingness to talk to me on the phone and send me parts (which didn't help) I think th best solution is to buy something else. It will be be interesting to see if the RFI list has a new, full solution. Leigh/WA5ZNU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
