Re: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service
I believe that when YOUR TAX dollars purchase radios for your fire police departments that one of the big American vendors..indicates that in 6 years they will no longer support the radios. AND THEY GET MILLIONS FOR THOSE SYSTEMS.Too bad our 35 year old 5 community police repeater system from the same factory is still going great,,, And I believe that ICOM does 'allow' us to speak with technicians. bill At 04:09 PM 7/5/2009, Nelson Moyer wrote: Yaesu is selling disposable radios. I called about sending in my eight year old FT-100D for repair and was told they no longer support the FT-100. Why would anyone spend 12K on a Yaesu radio that will be obsolete in less than eight years? My experience with Elecraft service, on the other hand, has been stellar. Nelson, KU0A -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dick Williams Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 3:15 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service Jim, All the more reason to buy American products! I owned a couple of Yaseu HF rigs in the past and I was more than dis-pleased with their service dept. In one instance, the SWR protection circuit went out in my 1000D; sent it back telling them what the problem was (or what caused the final transistors to burn out). I even called and was told that, O yes the purported tech I talked to said that the radio was fixed right. Well, when I got it back, all they did was replace the finals. As far as I am concerned, any ham who buys a Yaesu or Icom HF radio is a fool and uninformed. Both the K3 and O2 will run circles around any of the other rigs (maybe with the exception of the SDR radios). And when you talk about service, both Ten Tec and Elecraft are top notch. You are so right when you say you get to talk to a tech, not some idiot that is a go between and not familiar with the radio. That is my 2 cents worth. Dick K8ZTT PS Unfotunately we don't have a lot of choices with the VHF/UHF equipment, but at least it is not a big investment if it goes up in smoke. - Original Message - From: Jim Garland 4cx2...@muohio.edu To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:36 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service (Copy of a posting I sent today to the Yaesu FT-2000 reflector, contrasting Yaesu and Elecraft technical support. I believe it speaks for itself.) _ From: Jim Garland [mailto:4cx2...@muohio.edu] Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:22 AM To: 'ft-2...@yahoogroups.com' Subject: Update: Yaesu Service Two weeks ago I posted a note here about Yaesu's policy of not allowing customers to speak to service technicians, instead referring inquiries to customer support personnel who were unfamiliar with the inner workings of Yaesu products. This is the same policy used by auto dealers, who insert a customer service manager between a customer and mechanic, or computer manufacturers whose support personnel answer technical questions by reading from a prepared script. In my case, I had questions about the first mixer stage in my FT-2000D, which I suspected had failed. I had traced the signal path to the mixer with an oscilloscope, but wasn't sure how to interpret the output signal. I couldn't tell from the circuit diagram how much bias current the mixer FETs were supposed to draw, what the conversion loss from the mixer was (after taking into account losses and turns ratios of the coupling transformers), whether this was a common failure mode in the radio and what the likely cause was, and whether there were any useful pointers in replacing the tiny surface mount mixer IC. Unable to get anwers, I didn't want to take a chance plunging ahead with the repair myself, so I ended up sending the radio back to Yaesu. The repair bill came to $187 plus another $90 round trip shipping. Incidentally, the first mixer is nothing special; it is a garden variety IC that costs about $4. By coincidence, I also had a failure in my Elecraft K3, which had suddenly stopped transmitting during a recent 6m contest. I called Elecraft and was immediately put through to a service technician. I explained my problem and he asked me a few questions about my electronics background and what sort of test equipment I had on my workbench. He decided that I had enough enough experience to fix the problem myself, and we agreed that I would call him back after putting my K3 on my test bench and removing the covers. Later that day, I called him back and, together, we traced the signal path through the transmitter. I had the phone in one hand and a scope probe in the other. In a matter of 20 minutes, we determined that the push-pull FETs in the driver stage had shorted. He mailed me replacement FETs which came in three days. Ten minutes after opening
Re: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service
Guys - Let's end this thread. 73, Eric WA6HHQ list Moderator Bill NY9H wrote: I believe that when YOUR TAX dollars purchase radios for your fire police departments that one of the big American vendors..indicates that in 6 years they will no longer support the radios. AND THEY GET MILLIONS FOR THOSE SYSTEMS.Too bad our 35 year old 5 community police repeater system from the same factory is still going great,,, And I believe that ICOM does 'allow' us to speak with technicians. bill __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service
(Copy of a posting I sent today to the Yaesu FT-2000 reflector, contrasting Yaesu and Elecraft technical support. I believe it speaks for itself.) _ From: Jim Garland [mailto:4cx2...@muohio.edu] Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:22 AM To: 'ft-2...@yahoogroups.com' Subject: Update: Yaesu Service Two weeks ago I posted a note here about Yaesu's policy of not allowing customers to speak to service technicians, instead referring inquiries to customer support personnel who were unfamiliar with the inner workings of Yaesu products. This is the same policy used by auto dealers, who insert a customer service manager between a customer and mechanic, or computer manufacturers whose support personnel answer technical questions by reading from a prepared script. In my case, I had questions about the first mixer stage in my FT-2000D, which I suspected had failed. I had traced the signal path to the mixer with an oscilloscope, but wasn't sure how to interpret the output signal. I couldn't tell from the circuit diagram how much bias current the mixer FETs were supposed to draw, what the conversion loss from the mixer was (after taking into account losses and turns ratios of the coupling transformers), whether this was a common failure mode in the radio and what the likely cause was, and whether there were any useful pointers in replacing the tiny surface mount mixer IC. Unable to get anwers, I didn't want to take a chance plunging ahead with the repair myself, so I ended up sending the radio back to Yaesu. The repair bill came to $187 plus another $90 round trip shipping. Incidentally, the first mixer is nothing special; it is a garden variety IC that costs about $4. By coincidence, I also had a failure in my Elecraft K3, which had suddenly stopped transmitting during a recent 6m contest. I called Elecraft and was immediately put through to a service technician. I explained my problem and he asked me a few questions about my electronics background and what sort of test equipment I had on my workbench. He decided that I had enough enough experience to fix the problem myself, and we agreed that I would call him back after putting my K3 on my test bench and removing the covers. Later that day, I called him back and, together, we traced the signal path through the transmitter. I had the phone in one hand and a scope probe in the other. In a matter of 20 minutes, we determined that the push-pull FETs in the driver stage had shorted. He mailed me replacement FETs which came in three days. Ten minutes after opening the package, my K3 was back on the air. I have had similar experiences repairing a Ten-Tec Orion transceiver and SteppIR 4 el yagi. In each case, the service technicians were happy to talk to me and, with their guidance, repairs were quick and straightforward. Here's my point. Ham radio is a technical hobby. It begin a century ago, when all stations were homebrewed by their owners. Today, of course, there are hundreds of thousands of hams, and their technical expertise runs the gamut from inexperienced beginners to Ph.D. engineers. But all hams, I would hope, have a least a passing interest in electronics. Surely, anybody who buys a sophisticated transceiver like an FT-2000, has to know _something_ about DSP, roofing filters, preamps and RF attenuators, 3rd order intercept points, antenna tuners, and so forth. And I would hope that all hams, whatever their level of technical knowledge and experience, have a desire to learn more about their radios. Thus I believe Yaesu's service policy disrespects the traditions of amateur radio. It is policy that treats all hams as if they had no interest in their radios other than to gain a cursory understanding of the front panel knobs and buttons. For some hams, this kind of policy is fine, because it suits their interests, experience, and skill level. But for thousands of others in the hobby, like myself, it is inappropriate. I don't like taking my car to my Toyota dealer and dealing with an uninformed service representative who knows less about cars than I do (which isn't much.) But I really hate it when I run into the same kind of corporate mentality with amateur radio manufacturers. 73, Jim Garland W8ZR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service
Jim, All the more reason to buy American products! I owned a couple of Yaseu HF rigs in the past and I was more than dis-pleased with their service dept. In one instance, the SWR protection circuit went out in my 1000D; sent it back telling them what the problem was (or what caused the final transistors to burn out). I even called and was told that, O yes the purported tech I talked to said that the radio was fixed right. Well, when I got it back, all they did was replace the finals. As far as I am concerned, any ham who buys a Yaesu or Icom HF radio is a fool and uninformed. Both the K3 and O2 will run circles around any of the other rigs (maybe with the exception of the SDR radios). And when you talk about service, both Ten Tec and Elecraft are top notch. You are so right when you say you get to talk to a tech, not some idiot that is a go between and not familiar with the radio. That is my 2 cents worth. Dick K8ZTT PS Unfotunately we don't have a lot of choices with the VHF/UHF equipment, but at least it is not a big investment if it goes up in smoke. - Original Message - From: Jim Garland 4cx2...@muohio.edu To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:36 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service (Copy of a posting I sent today to the Yaesu FT-2000 reflector, contrasting Yaesu and Elecraft technical support. I believe it speaks for itself.) _ From: Jim Garland [mailto:4cx2...@muohio.edu] Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:22 AM To: 'ft-2...@yahoogroups.com' Subject: Update: Yaesu Service Two weeks ago I posted a note here about Yaesu's policy of not allowing customers to speak to service technicians, instead referring inquiries to customer support personnel who were unfamiliar with the inner workings of Yaesu products. This is the same policy used by auto dealers, who insert a customer service manager between a customer and mechanic, or computer manufacturers whose support personnel answer technical questions by reading from a prepared script. In my case, I had questions about the first mixer stage in my FT-2000D, which I suspected had failed. I had traced the signal path to the mixer with an oscilloscope, but wasn't sure how to interpret the output signal. I couldn't tell from the circuit diagram how much bias current the mixer FETs were supposed to draw, what the conversion loss from the mixer was (after taking into account losses and turns ratios of the coupling transformers), whether this was a common failure mode in the radio and what the likely cause was, and whether there were any useful pointers in replacing the tiny surface mount mixer IC. Unable to get anwers, I didn't want to take a chance plunging ahead with the repair myself, so I ended up sending the radio back to Yaesu. The repair bill came to $187 plus another $90 round trip shipping. Incidentally, the first mixer is nothing special; it is a garden variety IC that costs about $4. By coincidence, I also had a failure in my Elecraft K3, which had suddenly stopped transmitting during a recent 6m contest. I called Elecraft and was immediately put through to a service technician. I explained my problem and he asked me a few questions about my electronics background and what sort of test equipment I had on my workbench. He decided that I had enough enough experience to fix the problem myself, and we agreed that I would call him back after putting my K3 on my test bench and removing the covers. Later that day, I called him back and, together, we traced the signal path through the transmitter. I had the phone in one hand and a scope probe in the other. In a matter of 20 minutes, we determined that the push-pull FETs in the driver stage had shorted. He mailed me replacement FETs which came in three days. Ten minutes after opening the package, my K3 was back on the air. I have had similar experiences repairing a Ten-Tec Orion transceiver and SteppIR 4 el yagi. In each case, the service technicians were happy to talk to me and, with their guidance, repairs were quick and straightforward. Here's my point. Ham radio is a technical hobby. It begin a century ago, when all stations were homebrewed by their owners. Today, of course, there are hundreds of thousands of hams, and their technical expertise runs the gamut from inexperienced beginners to Ph.D. engineers. But all hams, I would hope, have a least a passing interest in electronics. Surely, anybody who buys a sophisticated transceiver like an FT-2000, has to know _something_ about DSP, roofing filters, preamps and RF attenuators, 3rd order intercept points, antenna tuners, and so forth. And I would hope that all hams, whatever their level of technical knowledge and experience, have a desire to learn more about their radios. Thus I believe Yaesu's service policy disrespects the traditions of amateur radio. It is policy
Re: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service
As far as I am concerned, any ham who buys a Yaesu or Icom HF radio is a fool and uninformed. Both the K3 and O2 will run circles around any of the other rigs (maybe with the exception of the SDR radios). Except that the K3 and O1/O2 ARE SDR radios I guess because they have an actual front panel, and don't require a mouse, keyboard, or Windoze-pick-your-poison PC makes them something else? :-) Grant/NQ5T __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service
Yaesu is selling disposable radios. I called about sending in my eight year old FT-100D for repair and was told they no longer support the FT-100. Why would anyone spend 12K on a Yaesu radio that will be obsolete in less than eight years? My experience with Elecraft service, on the other hand, has been stellar. Nelson, KU0A -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dick Williams Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 3:15 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service Jim, All the more reason to buy American products! I owned a couple of Yaseu HF rigs in the past and I was more than dis-pleased with their service dept. In one instance, the SWR protection circuit went out in my 1000D; sent it back telling them what the problem was (or what caused the final transistors to burn out). I even called and was told that, O yes the purported tech I talked to said that the radio was fixed right. Well, when I got it back, all they did was replace the finals. As far as I am concerned, any ham who buys a Yaesu or Icom HF radio is a fool and uninformed. Both the K3 and O2 will run circles around any of the other rigs (maybe with the exception of the SDR radios). And when you talk about service, both Ten Tec and Elecraft are top notch. You are so right when you say you get to talk to a tech, not some idiot that is a go between and not familiar with the radio. That is my 2 cents worth. Dick K8ZTT PS Unfotunately we don't have a lot of choices with the VHF/UHF equipment, but at least it is not a big investment if it goes up in smoke. - Original Message - From: Jim Garland 4cx2...@muohio.edu To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:36 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service (Copy of a posting I sent today to the Yaesu FT-2000 reflector, contrasting Yaesu and Elecraft technical support. I believe it speaks for itself.) _ From: Jim Garland [mailto:4cx2...@muohio.edu] Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:22 AM To: 'ft-2...@yahoogroups.com' Subject: Update: Yaesu Service Two weeks ago I posted a note here about Yaesu's policy of not allowing customers to speak to service technicians, instead referring inquiries to customer support personnel who were unfamiliar with the inner workings of Yaesu products. This is the same policy used by auto dealers, who insert a customer service manager between a customer and mechanic, or computer manufacturers whose support personnel answer technical questions by reading from a prepared script. In my case, I had questions about the first mixer stage in my FT-2000D, which I suspected had failed. I had traced the signal path to the mixer with an oscilloscope, but wasn't sure how to interpret the output signal. I couldn't tell from the circuit diagram how much bias current the mixer FETs were supposed to draw, what the conversion loss from the mixer was (after taking into account losses and turns ratios of the coupling transformers), whether this was a common failure mode in the radio and what the likely cause was, and whether there were any useful pointers in replacing the tiny surface mount mixer IC. Unable to get anwers, I didn't want to take a chance plunging ahead with the repair myself, so I ended up sending the radio back to Yaesu. The repair bill came to $187 plus another $90 round trip shipping. Incidentally, the first mixer is nothing special; it is a garden variety IC that costs about $4. By coincidence, I also had a failure in my Elecraft K3, which had suddenly stopped transmitting during a recent 6m contest. I called Elecraft and was immediately put through to a service technician. I explained my problem and he asked me a few questions about my electronics background and what sort of test equipment I had on my workbench. He decided that I had enough enough experience to fix the problem myself, and we agreed that I would call him back after putting my K3 on my test bench and removing the covers. Later that day, I called him back and, together, we traced the signal path through the transmitter. I had the phone in one hand and a scope probe in the other. In a matter of 20 minutes, we determined that the push-pull FETs in the driver stage had shorted. He mailed me replacement FETs which came in three days. Ten minutes after opening the package, my K3 was back on the air. I have had similar experiences repairing a Ten-Tec Orion transceiver and SteppIR 4 el yagi. In each case, the service technicians were happy to talk to me and, with their guidance, repairs were quick and straightforward. Here's my point. Ham radio is a technical hobby. It begin a century ago, when all stations were homebrewed by their owners. Today, of course, there are hundreds of thousands of hams, and their technical expertise runs the gamut from
