Re: [Elecraft] key out

[Geert Jan de Groot]

(Including the list on this response - if discussions on email fraid are 
fair game, then perhaps some Elecraft-related technical content is too)


> I am interested if anyone has a relay circuit design/suggestion to use
> the Key Out jack on the K3 to activate a light during TX?
> I have a few ideas but thought I would ask the masses.

The KEY output is spec'ed for 200VDC@5A so with luck you should be able 
to drive your load directly.


Wanting to protect the circuitry from grave natural forces, I have 
successfully used a PNP power transistor to switch a load - emitter to 
plus-power, resistor 4K7 between basis and emitter, second 4k7 resistor 
between basis and KEY output, load between collector and ground.


If you're planning to switch some lights directly connected to the 
electrical grid, then you may want to consider one of those 
semiconductor relays - the KEY output will easily drive it and those 
guys provide the isolation required.


The same circuit also works for the AUX outputs of the KPOD, though 
those outputs are not as beefy (50V, 100mA).
Note that if you do use the KPOD AUX outputs, you may find the 
documentation is wrong: in the connector pinout, AUX1 and AUX3 are 
swapped. I don't know if the documentation has been corrected since I 
reported this; it may save some head scratching knowing this.


Geert Jan

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[Elecraft] Key Out Question

[Rich]

I am interested if anyone has a relay circuit design/suggestion to use 
the Key Out jack on the K3 to activate a light during TX?


I have a few ideas but thought I would ask the masses.

Please respond direct so as not to clutter the mailing list with a 
slightly off-topic message


Thanks

Rich

K3RWN

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Re: [Elecraft] KEY OUT LOOP

[Don Wilhelm]

Shel,

The "signal" at the gate of Q5 is a result of the 7R voltage going to 
zero.  There are many places in the K3 that use that voltage rail for 
power during receive.
Does the receiver work?  If so, there are many devices working properly 
on that 7R voltage rail, and you will have to find out why it is not 
getting to the gate of Q5.
Do a "FIND" in the .pdf of the schematic to see all the references to 7R 
and that should enable you to trace the path.  All the 7R points are 
connected together.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/9/2018 10:57 AM, Shel Sherman wrote:



Sent from Mail for Windows 10
I am missing the signal on the gate of Q5 when the internal keyer is activated.
Can anyone show me the path through the schematics so I can locate where the 
signal gets Shel  WO0C

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[Elecraft] KEY OUT LOOP

[Shel Sherman]

Sent from Mail for Windows 10
I am missing the signal on the gate of Q5 when the internal keyer is activated.
Can anyone show me the path through the schematics so I can locate where the 
signal gets Shel  WO0C
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Re: [Elecraft] key out port

[hawley, charles j jr]

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K3_Schematics_Jun_2010.pdf

Chuck Jack

Sent from my iPhone, cjack

On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Don Wilhelm 
> wrote:

Shel,

It seems the K3 schematics have disappeared from the Elecraft website, but the 
K3S schematics are listed - and should be adequate for that problem.

I do have the K3 schematics, and if that will help, send me a private email 
(take Elecraft out of the subject line) and I can send the file to you - The 
reflector does not allow attachments.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/8/2018 8:36 AM, Shel Sherman wrote:
I cannot get the key out port to pull to ground using the internal keyer  I
have no gate signal change when pulsing the keyer  I cannot find the
schematic so I can trace back to the keyer outlying order to find the break
 help appreciated  call 314/580/3566
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Re: [Elecraft] key out port

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

The K3 schematics are on the web site:
  http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K3_Schematics_Jun_2010.pdf


73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 3/8/2018 10:57 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Shel,

It seems the K3 schematics have disappeared from the Elecraft website, 
but the K3S schematics are listed - and should be adequate for that 
problem.


I do have the K3 schematics, and if that will help, send me a private 
email (take Elecraft out of the subject line) and I can send the file to 
you - The reflector does not allow attachments.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/8/2018 8:36 AM, Shel Sherman wrote:
I cannot get the key out port to pull to ground using the internal 
keyer  I

have no gate signal change when pulsing the keyer  I cannot find the
schematic so I can trace back to the keyer outlying order to find the 
break

  help appreciated  call 314/580/3566

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Re: [Elecraft] key out port

[GRANT YOUNGMAN]

There are K3 schematics at 
http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K3_Schematics_Jun_2010.pdf 


Some of the modules in this package are a bit out of date (later than 2010), so 
the K3S docs may be needed, too, depending …

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342



On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:57 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Shel,
> 
> It seems the K3 schematics have disappeared from the Elecraft website, but 
> the K3S schematics are listed - and should be adequate for that problem.
> 
> I do have the K3 schematics, and if that will help, send me a private email 
> (take Elecraft out of the subject line) and I can send the file to you - The 
> reflector does not allow attachments.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 3/8/2018 8:36 AM, Shel Sherman wrote:
>> I cannot get the key out port to pull to ground using the internal keyer  I
>> have no gate signal change when pulsing the keyer  I cannot find the
>> schematic so I can trace back to the keyer outlying order to find the break
>>  help appreciated  call 314/580/3566
> __
> 




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Re: [Elecraft] key out port

[Don Wilhelm]

Shel,

It seems the K3 schematics have disappeared from the Elecraft website, 
but the K3S schematics are listed - and should be adequate for that problem.


I do have the K3 schematics, and if that will help, send me a private 
email (take Elecraft out of the subject line) and I can send the file to 
you - The reflector does not allow attachments.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/8/2018 8:36 AM, Shel Sherman wrote:

I cannot get the key out port to pull to ground using the internal keyer  I
have no gate signal change when pulsing the keyer  I cannot find the
schematic so I can trace back to the keyer outlying order to find the break
  help appreciated  call 314/580/3566

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[Elecraft] key out port

[Shel Sherman]

I cannot get the key out port to pull to ground using the internal keyer  I
have no gate signal change when pulsing the keyer  I cannot find the
schematic so I can trace back to the keyer outlying order to find the break
 help appreciated  call 314/580/3566

Shel Sherman. Wo0c
-- 
Shel Sherman
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Re: [Elecraft] Key Out jack

[Clay Autery]

K3 Schematics: http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K3_Schematics_Jun_2010.pdf
K3S Schematics: 
http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740323%20K3s%20Schematic%20Files.pdf


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Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 10/13/2017 8:33 AM, N4ZR wrote:
I am trying to use the Key Out jack on my K3 to key a small relay to 
protect my SDR from RF.  The 12V@40 ma is well within the stated 
rating of the jack, but to my surprise it does not work. Measuring 
with an analog multimeter, the jack appears to be shorted all the 
time, and also to have a very small DC voltage on it.  I don't have a 
schematic for the radio, so I'm stumped.  Is this a function of the 
way I'm measuring, or...?


--

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.


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Re: [Elecraft] Key Out jack

[Jim Rhodes]

There is however an adjustable delay. Default 8 ms, which can be adjusted
with TX DLY in the CONFIG menu.

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 5:21 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> Skip,
>
> Yes, it does follow the keying when in QSK.  If it did not, the KPA500
> would not follow the K3(s) in QSK mode (the KPA500 connection uses the
> KEYOUT-LP from the ACC connector).
> The T/R switching is all electronic and can be quite fast.
>
> If the amplifier uses relay switching, the relay may not be able to follow
> the K3(S).
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 10/13/2017 6:02 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>
>> Related question:  Does KEY OUT essentially follow the TX state?  IAW, if
>> PTT or VOX is asserted, it also asserts?  If so, I guess that means that it
>> follows the keying when in QSK?  It's a real PITA to get to the back of my
>> K3 right now or I'd check it myself.
>>
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>



-- 
Jim K0XU
j...@rhodesend.net
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Re: [Elecraft] Key Out jack

[Don Wilhelm]

Skip,

Yes, it does follow the keying when in QSK.  If it did not, the KPA500 
would not follow the K3(s) in QSK mode (the KPA500 connection uses the 
KEYOUT-LP from the ACC connector).

The T/R switching is all electronic and can be quite fast.

If the amplifier uses relay switching, the relay may not be able to 
follow the K3(S).


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/13/2017 6:02 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
Related question:  Does KEY OUT essentially follow the TX state?  IAW, 
if PTT or VOX is asserted, it also asserts?  If so, I guess that means 
that it follows the keying when in QSK?  It's a real PITA to get to the 
back of my K3 right now or I'd check it myself.



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Re: [Elecraft] Key Out jack

[Fred Jensen]

Related question:  Does KEY OUT essentially follow the TX state?  IAW, 
if PTT or VOX is asserted, it also asserts?  If so, I guess that means 
that it follows the keying when in QSK?  It's a real PITA to get to the 
back of my K3 right now or I'd check it myself.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 10/13/2017 2:47 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Pete,

As mentioned by others, the K3(S) KEYOUT jack does not produce any 
voltage - the voltage must be produced by another source (sufficient 
to power the relay).


One method to check the K3 KEYOUT is to use your Ohmmeter.  stick the 
red probe into the center of the jack and the other probe to the shell.
It should read a very high resistance, even infinity (same as your 
ohmmeter reads with the probes attached to nothing) during receive, 
and then go to a very low value (close to zero ohms) during TUNE or 
Transmit.
If it does not do that, you may have a bad HEXFET driver for the 
KEYOUT line.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/13/2017 9:33 AM, N4ZR wrote:
I am trying to use the Key Out jack on my K3 to key a small relay to 
protect my SDR from RF.  The 12V@40 ma is well within the stated 
rating of the jack, but to my surprise it does not work.  Measuring 
with an analog multimeter, the jack appears to be shorted all the 
time, and also to have a very small DC voltage on it.  I don't have a 
schematic for the radio, so I'm stumped.  Is this a function of the 
way I'm measuring, or...?



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Re: [Elecraft] Key Out jack

[Don Wilhelm]

Pete,

As mentioned by others, the K3(S) KEYOUT jack does not produce any 
voltage - the voltage must be produced by another source (sufficient to 
power the relay).


One method to check the K3 KEYOUT is to use your Ohmmeter.  stick the 
red probe into the center of the jack and the other probe to the shell.
It should read a very high resistance, even infinity (same as your 
ohmmeter reads with the probes attached to nothing) during receive, and 
then go to a very low value (close to zero ohms) during TUNE or Transmit.
If it does not do that, you may have a bad HEXFET driver for the KEYOUT 
line.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/13/2017 9:33 AM, N4ZR wrote:
I am trying to use the Key Out jack on my K3 to key a small relay to 
protect my SDR from RF.  The 12V@40 ma is well within the stated rating 
of the jack, but to my surprise it does not work.  Measuring with an 
analog multimeter, the jack appears to be shorted all the time, and also 
to have a very small DC voltage on it.  I don't have a schematic for the 
radio, so I'm stumped.  Is this a function of the way I'm measuring, or...?



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Re: [Elecraft] Key Out Jack

[K9MA]

I hadn't thought of that but, yes, the relay does need an external 12V 
supply.  There absolutely must be a diode across the relay coil to 
prevent the voltage spike at turn-off from exceeding the 200 V limit and 
shorting the FET.  For the 40 mA relay, a 3.3K resistor could be used in 
series with the diode to speed up the turn-off.


73,
Scott K9MA

On 10/13/2017 11:13, James Wilson wrote:

Pete, I think you have misunderstood the purpose of the Key Out jack
on the K3.  It does not provide 12 volts out at 40 ma. It is a keying
circuit that can withstand a external keying circuit up to +200 volts
DC and can handle a keying load of up to 5 amps. (See the K3 manual
regarding the Rear Panel) If you want to key your external relay, you
will need to provide a source of power for the relay - and use the Key
Out connection as the "switch" for it.

Jim - W4RKS

--


I am trying to use the Key Out jack on my K3 to key a small relay to
protect my SDR from RF.  The 12V at 40 
 ma is well within the stated 
rating
of the jack, but to my surprise it does not work.  Measuring with an
analog multimeter, the jack appears to be shorted all the time, and also
to have a very small DC voltage on it.  I don't have a schematic for the
radio, so I'm stumped.  Is this a function of the way I'm measuring, or...?



--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] key out jack...

[Roy Koeppe]

Here's what Pete originally stated:


"...the jack appears to be shorted all the time...(etc.)"


Think he has it right, but he's using a digital meter  -- tricky.

73,  Roy K6XK


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Re: [Elecraft] Key Out Jack

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I suggest the Fred Cady book.   He has all the info shown in charts and 
tables and explains how things work and how things should be 
configured.   I view it is too much work to try to figure out via a 
schematic what is done and needed.


73
Bob, K4TAX



On 10/13/2017 11:17 AM, James Wilson wrote:

Pete, Also, the schematics for the K3 can be downloaded from the Elecraft



website.

Jim - W4RKS
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[Elecraft] Key Out Jack

[James Wilson]

Pete, Also, the schematics for the K3 can be downloaded from the Elecraft
website.

Jim - W4RKS
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[Elecraft] Key Out Jack

[James Wilson]

Pete, I think you have misunderstood the purpose of the Key Out jack
on the K3.  It does not provide 12 volts out at 40 ma. It is a keying
circuit that can withstand a external keying circuit up to +200 volts
DC and can handle a keying load of up to 5 amps. (See the K3 manual
regarding the Rear Panel) If you want to key your external relay, you
will need to provide a source of power for the relay - and use the Key
Out connection as the "switch" for it.

Jim - W4RKS

--

>I am trying to use the Key Out jack on my K3 to key a small relay to
>protect my SDR from RF.  The 12V at 40 
> ma is well within the 
>stated rating
>of the jack, but to my surprise it does not work.  Measuring with an
>analog multimeter, the jack appears to be shorted all the time, and also
>to have a very small DC voltage on it.  I don't have a schematic for the
>radio, so I'm stumped.  Is this a function of the way I'm measuring, or...?

-- 

>73, Pete N4ZR
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[Elecraft] Key Out jack

[N4ZR]

I am trying to use the Key Out jack on my K3 to key a small relay to 
protect my SDR from RF.  The 12V@40 ma is well within the stated rating 
of the jack, but to my surprise it does not work.  Measuring with an 
analog multimeter, the jack appears to be shorted all the time, and also 
to have a very small DC voltage on it.  I don't have a schematic for the 
radio, so I'm stumped.  Is this a function of the way I'm measuring, or...?


--

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

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[Elecraft] Key out delay for end of TX?

[Jim Miller]

There is a Keyout to RF out default (adjustable) delay of 8ms on the K3.

What is the spec for RF out going inactive to Keyout going inactive?

Thanks

Jim ab3cv
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Re: [Elecraft] Key out delay for end of TX?

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

One issue I'm trying to resolve is a manner to keep the KEY OUT active 
in between CW elements.  This of course would negate QSK operation but 
the repeated clatter of an external relay is most annoying.


Any help or suggestions?


73
Bob, K4TAX

On 1/26/2016 9:15 AM, Jim Miller wrote:

There is a Keyout to RF out default (adjustable) delay of 8ms on the K3.

What is the spec for RF out going inactive to Keyout going inactive?

Thanks

Jim ab3cv
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Re: [Elecraft] Key out delay for end of TX?

[Ken K3IU]

Hi Bob:

You can just put the K3 in SEMI breakin  mode (Press hold 
QSK button on Band UP) and set the delay to whatever you 
want by adjusting the DELAY (press hold SPEED MIC and turn 
knob to adjust). I believe that should produce the result 
you are seeking.


73, Ken K3IU
~~~
On 1/26/2016 10:21 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
One issue I'm trying to resolve is a manner to keep the 
KEY OUT active in between CW elements.  This of course 
would negate QSK operation but the repeated clatter of an 
external relay is most annoying.


Any help or suggestions?


73
Bob, K4TAX

On 1/26/2016 9:15 AM, Jim Miller wrote:
There is a Keyout to RF out default (adjustable) delay of 
8ms on the K3.


What is the spec for RF out going inactive to Keyout 
going inactive?


Thanks

Jim ab3cv
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Re: [Elecraft] Key out delay for end of TX?

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

A Winkey box or any of the other contest boxes using a Winkey chip in the
innards will allow a precise tailored delay that even incorporates the
keying speed. That takes care of the clatter of my 8410. I use the keyer in
the contest box instead of the one in the K3 because it can slightly delay
the key signal to insure no hot switching. The contest box supplies the PTT
signal for the amp and for external devices if needed.

73, Guy K2AV

On Tuesday, January 26, 2016, Jim Miller  wrote:

> There is a Keyout to RF out default (adjustable) delay of 8ms on the K3.
>
> What is the spec for RF out going inactive to Keyout going inactive?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim ab3cv
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Re: [Elecraft] Key out delay for end of TX?

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

WOW!  It works.   Thank youI'd missed that one.  Geez, seems I 
can or need to learn something every day.  :-)


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10163


On 1/26/2016 9:35 AM, Ken K3IU wrote:

Hi Bob:

You can just put the K3 in SEMI breakin  mode (Press hold QSK button 
on Band UP) and set the delay to whatever you want by adjusting the 
DELAY (press hold SPEED MIC and turn knob to adjust). I believe that 
should produce the result you are seeking.


73, Ken K3IU
~~~
On 1/26/2016 10:21 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
One issue I'm trying to resolve is a manner to keep the KEY OUT 
active in between CW elements.  This of course would negate QSK 
operation but the repeated clatter of an external relay is most 
annoying.


Any help or suggestions?


73
Bob, K4TAX

On 1/26/2016 9:15 AM, Jim Miller wrote:
There is a Keyout to RF out default (adjustable) delay of 8ms on the 
K3.


What is the spec for RF out going inactive to Keyout going inactive?

Thanks

Jim ab3cv
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Re: [Elecraft] Key Out

[Fred Smith]

Delwyn

I use the Pro 1B Loop also, I'm not keying my KPA500  with it but my Alpha
87 A and have no issues what so ever.



73,
Fred/N0AZZ
K3 Ser #'s 6730/5299--KX3 # 2573--K2/100--KAT100
P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2

 -Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of DC
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 9:09 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Key Out

Aloha Everyone,

 

I have the K-Line and is keying the KPA-500 vi the K3.  I inserted a Pixel
Pro 1B receiving loop which requires keying also.  When using the Y
connector at the Pixel's preamp control box as Pixel specifies, the KPA-500
keys but not the Pixel.  When alone, the Pixel keys fine but not when
coupled with the linear.  Anyone else have this similar situation and can
offer some tips or advice?

 

Thanks very much and 73,

 

Delwyn, KH6DC

K3 #5847

P3 #1581

KPA-500 #1017

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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6267 - Release Date: 04/23/13

-
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Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6267 - Release Date: 04/23/13

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[Elecraft] Key Out

[DC]

Aloha Everyone,

 

I have the K-Line and is keying the KPA-500 vi the K3.  I inserted a Pixel
Pro 1B receiving loop which requires keying also.  When using the Y
connector at the Pixel's preamp control box as Pixel specifies, the KPA-500
keys but not the Pixel.  When alone, the Pixel keys fine but not when
coupled with the linear.  Anyone else have this similar situation and can
offer some tips or advice?

 

Thanks very much and 73,

 

Delwyn, KH6DC

K3 #5847

P3 #1581

KPA-500 #1017

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[Elecraft] Key Out issue

[Paul Ormandy ZL4PW]

Hi all,

Am hoping someone can help me with a problem. I have a K3 with a KD9SV rx antenna switch and use the 
Key Out line to toggle this device.


For some reason, the K3 will not send the key Out low in CW mode via:

- external software (Logger32, N1MM)
- the macro buttons
- a paddle plugged in the rear port

It won't send it low using any software-oriented mode, e.g. voice keyer or 
MMVARI either.

However, it does send it low when PTT is activated, i.e. by a footswitch, and will do so when the K3 
is in CW mode as well as SSB so in the meantime I can toggle the rx ant switch with the footswitch. 
So it seems the cabling and MOSFET controlling the Key Out lien are functioning correctly.


Have just downloaded the latest firmware, the latest firmware installer and the problem persists. I 
have tried EEINIT prior to reloading the complete firmware, tried loading older configurations etc...


My usual set-up is K3/KPA500/KAT500 connected via the serial cables for control and keying. I have 
tried disconnecting all external equipment save the rx ant switch and used the M1-M4 macros to 
generate code with VOX on and it still won't operate the Key Out line.


The KD9SV box also has a rig-saver interface, this is not connected to the amp.

Makes no difference if in VOX or QSK off/on or set PTT to OFF-OFF and use the 
paddle or M1-M4 macros.

I have

Cheers,

Paul

--

Paul Ormandy, ZL4PW, Oamaru, New Zealand
http://www.zl4pw.orconhosting.net.nz/
www.radiodx.com

 



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[Elecraft] KEY OUT and TX Delay

[WL7M]

I have a Ten Tec Hercules II amp I'm not using and I was thinking about
trying it with my KX3. 

I know the KX3 has a KEY OUT available on the ACC2 jack (I did purchase the
ACC2 Module).  From what I've read, Ten Tec amps will work with a non-Ten
Tec transceiver without the full keying loop if there is a short delay (4-8
msec?) between the transceiver's KEY OUT closure and the application of RF.

My question: Is there any delay built into the KX3 between KEY OUT closure
and transmitting RF?  

I've read about the 8 msec+ adjustable TX Delay for the K3 but couldn't find
any references to TX Delay and the KX3. I know there's a CW Delay setting in
the KX3 menu, but that controls the time it takes the KX3 to switch back to
receive after key-up.

I'm not hoping for full QSK, but slow QSK/semi-break in would be nice.

Thanks,
John Pfeifer
WL7M



--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KEY-OUT-and-TX-Delay-tp7566303.html
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Re: [Elecraft] KEY OUT and TX Delay

[Don Wilhelm]

John,

In the absence of any other information, I would say that there is some 
delay between KeyOut going active and the onset of RF.  I do not know 
the numbers, but in the K3 it is adjustable, and in the K2 it was 
between 12 and 15 ms.  I expect the KX3 to be in that 12 to 15 ms range too.


Validation of my guesses will have to come from more authoritative 
sources, but I can safely say there will be some delay in the onset of 
RF - I just don't know the numbers, but I believe your 4 to 8 ms will be 
within the safe region.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/27/2012 2:36 PM, WL7M wrote:

I have a Ten Tec Hercules II amp I'm not using and I was thinking about
trying it with my KX3.

I know the KX3 has a KEY OUT available on the ACC2 jack (I did purchase the
ACC2 Module).  From what I've read, Ten Tec amps will work with a non-Ten
Tec transceiver without the full keying loop if there is a short delay (4-8
msec?) between the transceiver's KEY OUT closure and the application of RF.

My question: Is there any delay built into the KX3 between KEY OUT closure
and transmitting RF?

I've read about the 8 msec+ adjustable TX Delay for the K3 but couldn't find
any references to TX Delay and the KX3. I know there's a CW Delay setting in
the KX3 menu, but that controls the time it takes the KX3 to switch back to
receive after key-up.

I'm not hoping for full QSK, but slow QSK/semi-break in would be nice.

Thanks,
John Pfeifer
WL7M



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[Elecraft] key out not tripping relay

[Todd Ruby]

I have just successfully loaded latest beta firmware and now the K3  
will not trip the relay in the ameritron as it had before. ihave the  
same key out connection that was untouched but maybe i need to  
reconfig something?





73
de
todd
WB2ZAB

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[Elecraft] KEY OUT

[Ken_ke2n]

Vic K2VCO (via Nabble) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I would be very careful about this, because of the need for the key out 
to be activated a few ms. before RF appears and to stay active until 
after the RF is gone. This is necessary to prevent hot-switching of 
amplifier relays which at best will create key clicks and at worst will 
destroy the relays.
-- 
73,
Vic, K2VCO

Thanks - perhaps I should qualify that my key out goes to a sequencer that 
takes care of all the proper RF relay sequencing. Its just that I do not want 
it keyed up all those times when I am NOT transmitting AND I am using the 
transverter option running at 1 milliwatt output . 


-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/K3%3A-new-to-wish-list---KEY-OUT-setting-in-menu-%28to-be-more-like-PTT-OUT%29-for-CW-PTT-mode-tp467486p1485541.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Elecraft] KEY OUT

[Lance Collister]

Ken_ke2n wrote:

Vic K2VCO (via Nabble) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I would be very careful about this, because of the need for the key out 
to be activated a few ms. before RF appears and to stay active until 
after the RF is gone. This is necessary to prevent hot-switching of 
amplifier relays which at best will create key clicks and at worst will 
destroy the relays.

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO


Thanks - perhaps I should qualify that my key out goes to a sequencer that takes care of all the proper RF relay sequencing. Its just that I do not want it keyed up all those times when I am NOT transmitting AND I am using the transverter option running at 1 milliwatt output . 



I the VOX turned off and have my computer or foot switch key my SEQUENCER, which 
in turn finally keys up the K3 via the microphone PTT.  In that way, the K3 can 
never be switched HOT (unless it is put into XMIT mode automatically during 
firmware updates or something direct such as that).  GL and VY 73, Lance


--
Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT  59834  USA
QTH: DN27UB
TEL: (406) 626-5728   URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815


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Re: [Elecraft] KEY OUT

[Alexandr Kobranov]

Suppose there is not problem with PTT or computer controll.
What is sometimes problem is what is happened after hitting the Key in 
pure PTT mode. This is acting as activating KEY OUT port. That´s it.


Maybe there is way how to interpret Key closed when K3 is not in VOX 
or in TX mode by external PTT (line or command) or XMIT/TUNE button by 
firmware.


IMHO when K3 in PTT mode it will be better no action if the Key is 
pressed when no PTT is present (external, by command or XMIT/TUNE 
button).  Simply nothing, no KEY OUT,...like KEY port disconnected.


Maybe I missed something, maybe I am completely wrong but on any of my 
other rig(-s) never had any problem with activating connected systems 
(transverters, relays) by hitting the Key when PTT not active.


I never seen any explanation why K3 is doing by mentined way, what is 
advantege and purpose, reading list and doc very often but still not 
clear to me (and maybe others as well:-))
Time to time this topic is open without this explanation and again 
goes for sleep :-)


73!
Lexa, ok1dst
K3/10 #727


Lance Collister napsal(a):

Ken_ke2n wrote:

Vic K2VCO (via Nabble) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I would be very careful about this, because of the need for the key 
out to be activated a few ms. before RF appears and to stay active 
until after the RF is gone. This is necessary to prevent 
hot-switching of amplifier relays which at best will create key 
clicks and at worst will destroy the relays.

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO


Thanks - perhaps I should qualify that my key out goes to a sequencer 
that takes care of all the proper RF relay sequencing. Its just that I 
do not want it keyed up all those times when I am NOT transmitting AND 
I am using the transverter option running at 1 milliwatt output .


I the VOX turned off and have my computer or foot switch key my 
SEQUENCER, which in turn finally keys up the K3 via the microphone PTT.  
In that way, the K3 can never be switched HOT (unless it is put into 
XMIT mode automatically during firmware updates or something direct such 
as that).  GL and VY 73, Lance




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Re: [Elecraft] KEY OUT (K3)

[WILLIS COOKE]

I may be missing something, but when I close the key in the PTT mode I get a 
sidetone with no output.  I get output only if I close the PTT or use VOX.  I 
have not yet connected my amplifier, so I am not sure what the Key Out does.  
If I am setting parameters in my K3 I want the amplifier to be either in off or 
Standby.  (On my amp Standby just removes the relay voltage in the keying 
circuit.)  I never have seen an amplifier without some kind of off and standby 
switches.  I don't understand the problem.

Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
K5EWJ

 Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
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Re: [Elecraft] KEY OUT (K3)

[Iain MacDonnell - K6IAM]

WILLIS COOKE wrote:

I may be missing something, but when I close the key in the PTT mode I get a 
sidetone with no output.  I get output only if I close the PTT or use VOX.  I 
have not yet connected my amplifier, so I am not sure what the Key Out does.  
If I am setting parameters in my K3 I want the amplifier to be either in off or 
Standby.  (On my amp Standby just removes the relay voltage in the keying 
circuit.)  I never have seen an amplifier without some kind of off and standby 
switches.  I don't understand the problem.


So now you have two things to toggle to get into test mode - the K3
and the amp separately... and the amp may not be within arm's reach
of the operating position.

I must say that I was quite surprised (and a little embarrassed) when I
took my K3 to a contest station recently (where I'll be operating SS
this weekend), and discovered (infront of the station owner) that his
the amp was getting keyed even though the K3 was in TX TEST mode.

Whilst I (now) understand why it's happening (receiver is being turned 
off), I still think it's wrong...


~Iain


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Re: [Elecraft] KEY OUT (K3)

[Don Wilhelm]

Iain,

As far as I can recall, the amp keying during TX TEST is intentional - 
it allows one to activate all the controls as though switching to 
transmit, but no RF is transmitted - it is quite intuitive to me, it is 
a TEST of all the transmit control elements (internal to the K3 and 
external as well), but without producing any RF.


The situation of KEYOUT being activated by a key or paddle action when 
in CW PTT is IMHO not the proper action - PTT is PTT - and by that I 
mean that one must press PTT before anything happens.  In CW PTT, many 
have wanted sidetone to be produced when the key is activated, and all 
have wanted no RF to be transmitted - those things happen, but also the 
KEYOUT signal becomes active with keying too, and I do not believe that 
should happen - we have TX TEST to do testing that requires the KEYOUT 
to be active.


73,
Don W3FPR.


Iain MacDonnell - K6IAM wrote:



WILLIS COOKE wrote:
I may be missing something, but when I close the key in the PTT mode 
I get a sidetone with no output.  I get output only if I close the 
PTT or use VOX.  I have not yet connected my amplifier, so I am not 
sure what the Key Out does.  If I am setting parameters in my K3 I 
want the amplifier to be either in off or Standby.  (On my amp 
Standby just removes the relay voltage in the keying circuit.)  I 
never have seen an amplifier without some kind of off and standby 
switches.  I don't understand the problem.


So now you have two things to toggle to get into test mode - the K3
and the amp separately... and the amp may not be within arm's reach
of the operating position.

I must say that I was quite surprised (and a little embarrassed) when I
took my K3 to a contest station recently (where I'll be operating SS
this weekend), and discovered (infront of the station owner) that his
the amp was getting keyed even though the K3 was in TX TEST mode.

Whilst I (now) understand why it's happening (receiver is being turned 
off), I still think it's wrong...


~Iain


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Re: [Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3

[Robert Tellefsen]

Is there any adjustment to this delay?
I think the K2's delay is a bit longer,
for example.
73, Bob N6WG

- Original Message -
From: Dave G4AON [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 11:28 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3


 Lee

  From the key out line on the K3 going low, RF appears just a shade
over
 10 mS later. You need a linear that can accept RF in that time.

 73 Dave, G4AON
 K3/100 #80 and Acom 1000 linear.
 http://www.astromag.co.uk/k3/
 =
 I would like a clarification of this feature from the users and what
 users have found in real-life.

 Lee Buller
 K0WA
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Re: [Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3

[David Pratt]

In a recent message, Robert Tellefsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote ...

Is there any adjustment to this delay?
I think the K2's delay is a bit longer,
for example.


I agree there, Bob.  Using the K3 with the XV144 on CW, the XV relays 
clatter with every dot and dash which did not happen with the K2.  I am 
a bit worried that it can't be doing the XV144 relays much good.


73
--
David G4DMP
Leeds, England, UK
--


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Re: [Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3

[Greg - AB7R]

Not yet.  There will be a menu item for an adjustable delay within certain 
limits, but I cannot say exactly 
when it will be available.


-
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065
K3#0009

On Wed Feb  6  9:23 , Robert Tellefsen  sent:

Is there any adjustment to this delay?
I think the K2's delay is a bit longer,
for example.
73, Bob N6WG

- Original Message -
From: Dave G4AON [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 11:28 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3


 Lee

  From the key out line on the K3 going low, RF appears just a shade
over
 10 mS later. You need a linear that can accept RF in that time.

 73 Dave, G4AON
 K3/100 #80 and Acom 1000 linear.
 http://www.astromag.co.uk/k3/
 =
 I would like a clarification of this feature from the users and what
 users have found in real-life.

 Lee Buller
 K0WA
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Re: [Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3

[Mike Harris]

G'day,

| In a recent message, Robert Tellefsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote ...
| Is there any adjustment to this delay?
| I think the K2's delay is a bit longer,
| for example.
|
| I agree there, Bob.  Using the K3 with the XV144 on CW, the XV relays
| clatter with every dot and dash which did not happen with the K2.  I am
| a bit worried that it can't be doing the XV144 relays much good.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't we mixing up two delays here? 
Currently there isn't an adjustable PTT on/carrier up delay on the K3, 
this is the same for the K2, approx 10ms if I remember correctly.  But did 
I not read that in semi break-in with the K3 you can adjust the release 
delay.  That should stop the relays rattling.

In fact, I did this on my K2 (QSK delay) to reduce the fast vacuum relay 
activity on my Acom amp.  Changed the t-r delay to 0.03 seconds.  I don't 
want to listen to noise between the dots.

There again I could be barking up the wrong tree.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO


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Re: [Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3

[Robert Tellefsen]

Yes, Mike, you are right about the release delay.
Done the same thing here with my K2.
I think the original question addressed the PTT on/carrier up delay
though.  It sounds like that has a fixed delay of about 10ms at
present.
73, Bob N6WG

- Original Message -
From: Mike Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net; David Pratt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3


 G'day,

 | In a recent message, Robert Tellefsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote ...
 | Is there any adjustment to this delay?
 | I think the K2's delay is a bit longer,
 | for example.
 |
 | I agree there, Bob.  Using the K3 with the XV144 on CW, the XV
relays
 | clatter with every dot and dash which did not happen with the K2.
I am
 | a bit worried that it can't be doing the XV144 relays much good.

 Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't we mixing up two delays here?
 Currently there isn't an adjustable PTT on/carrier up delay on the
K3,
 this is the same for the K2, approx 10ms if I remember correctly.
But did
 I not read that in semi break-in with the K3 you can adjust the
release
 delay.  That should stop the relays rattling.

 In fact, I did this on my K2 (QSK delay) to reduce the fast vacuum
relay
 activity on my Acom amp.  Changed the t-r delay to 0.03 seconds.  I
don't
 want to listen to noise between the dots.

 There again I could be barking up the wrong tree.

 Regards,

 Mike VP8NO


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Re: [Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3

[David Pratt]

I have tried semi-QSK, Mike, but still get the XV144 relay clatter at 
speeds less than about 24wpm.  I can't find in the manual which config 
command I need to change the release delay. Can you point me to it 
please?  I would like to stop the XV144 relays switching between Morse 
elements at 18-20wpm.


73

David G4DMP

In a recent message, Mike Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote ...


| I agree there, Bob.  Using the K3 with the XV144 on CW, the XV relays
| clatter with every dot and dash which did not happen with the K2.  I am
| a bit worried that it can't be doing the XV144 relays much good.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't we mixing up two delays here?
Currently there isn't an adjustable PTT on/carrier up delay on the K3,
this is the same for the K2, approx 10ms if I remember correctly.  But did
I not read that in semi break-in with the K3 you can adjust the release
delay.  That should stop the relays rattling.

--
David G4DMP
Leeds, England, UK
--


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Re: [Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3

[Tom Childers, N5GE]

On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 23:07:38 +, you wrote:

I have tried semi-QSK, Mike, but still get the XV144 relay clatter at 
speeds less than about 24wpm.  I can't find in the manual which config 
command I need to change the release delay. Can you point me to it 
please?  I would like to stop the XV144 relays switching between Morse 
elements at 18-20wpm.

73

David G4DMP

Have you looked on page 15 of the Owner's Manual (Rev D, April 11, 2007) under
Transmit-Receive Switching Delay.  Is that helpful to you?

Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq

They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Support the entire Constitution, not 
just the parts you like.

http://www.n5ge.com
http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE

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[Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3

[Lee Buller]

I know that sequencing of Rigs and Amps has been an issue with many brands of 
radios.  As I am researching the features of the K3, I did not see any 
parameter in the documentation that would set a delay.  So, I went to the list 
archives (see I can look things up) and found this answer.

Eric Wrote last October

If a radio has proper Key-Out before RF sequencing, like the K3 and K2  
do, this is NOT necessary. We have no problem running with relay based  
amplifiers, including those with large, slow relays, like the SB-220 etc. 

A few radios out there have a TX loop feature, but most others do not.  
Its not needed with the K3. 

73, Eric   WA6HHQ

From what I gather from his response, is that the sequence is already built in 
the firmware of the K3 as well as the K2.  So the K3 will not squirt-out RF 
until the relay circuit is closed...or should I say the firmware makes sure 
the switching transistor is on before emitting RF.

Is that the case?  Therefore, no special parameter would be needed.  I would 
like a clarification of this feature from the users and what users have found 
in real-life.

Lee Buller
K0WA
It is DANGEROUS to read the manual before getting the rig.


 

In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you don't 
have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you can't find 
any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense.  Is 
Common Sense divine?
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Re: [Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3

[Barry N1EU]

Lee, it would help if you mentioned what amplifier YOU would be interfacing
to the K3.  My experience with Brand X amplifier might have no bearing on
you.

73,
Barry N1EU


Lee Buller wrote:
 
 Is that the case?  Therefore, no special parameter would be needed.  I
 would like a clarification of this feature from the users and what users
 have found in real-life.
 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Key-Out-of-the-K3-tp15295805p15296615.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3

[Dave G4AON]

Lee

From the key out line on the K3 going low, RF appears just a shade over 
10 mS later. You need a linear that can accept RF in that time.


73 Dave, G4AON
K3/100 #80 and Acom 1000 linear.
http://www.astromag.co.uk/k3/
=
I would like a clarification of this feature from the users and what 
users have found in real-life.


Lee Buller
K0WA
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Re: [Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3

[AD6XY - Mike]

I do not think any of the replies so far have understood the question. How do
you program the radio to a specified delay producing RF after the PTT
signal. The minimum 10mS is far too fast for many applications, 50mS to
100ms is necessary.

Sequencing is absolutely essential for power amplifiers and especially
pre-amplifiers and especially at VHF and above. The relays must have settled
and achieved maximum isolation before any RF appears and this takes time.
While many RF relays are quite fast, they are frequently not as fast as the
front end is to fail.

Eric knows this and has built an adjustable delay capability into the radio,
all that is needed is how to program the delay.

Mike




Lee Buller wrote:
 
 I know that sequencing of Rigs and Amps has been an issue with many brands
 of radios.  As I am researching the features of the K3, I did not see any
 parameter in the documentation that would set a delay.  So, I went to the
 list archives (see I can look things up) and found this answer.
 
 Eric Wrote last October
 
 If a radio has proper Key-Out before RF sequencing, like the K3 and K2  
 do, this is NOT necessary. We have no problem running with relay based  
 amplifiers, including those with large, slow relays, like the SB-220 etc. 
 
 A few radios out there have a TX loop feature, but most others do not.  
 Its not needed with the K3. 
 
 73, Eric   WA6HHQ
 
From what I gather from his response, is that the sequence is already
built in the firmware of the K3 as well as the K2.  So the K3 will not
squirt-out RF until the relay circuit is closed...or should I say the
firmware makes sure the switching transistor is on before emitting RF.
 
 Is that the case?  Therefore, no special parameter would be needed.  I
 would like a clarification of this feature from the users and what users
 have found in real-life.
 
 Lee Buller
 K0WA
 It is DANGEROUS to read the manual before getting the rig.
 
 
  
 
 In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you
 don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you
 can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some
 Common Sense.  Is Common Sense divine?
 ___
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 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
 Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
 
 

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http://www.nabble.com/Key-Out-of-the-K3-tp15295805p15298032.html
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[Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3

[Dave G4AON]

Mike

It's not currently adjustable in version 1.66 MCU firmware, as far as I 
know it's on the to do list.


73 Dave, G4AON
---
Eric knows this and has built an adjustable delay capability into the radio,
all that is needed is how to program the delay.

Mike
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Re: [Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3

[Greg - AB7R]

This adjustment is not yet coded into the firmware but is on the list to be 
done.

-
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065
K3#0009

On Tue Feb  5 11:45 , AD6XY - Mike  sent:


I do not think any of the replies so far have understood the question. How do
you program the radio to a specified delay producing RF after the PTT
signal. The minimum 10mS is far too fast for many applications, 50mS to
100ms is necessary.

Sequencing is absolutely essential for power amplifiers and especially
pre-amplifiers and especially at VHF and above. The relays must have settled
and achieved maximum isolation before any RF appears and this takes time.
While many RF relays are quite fast, they are frequently not as fast as the
front end is to fail.

Eric knows this and has built an adjustable delay capability into the radio,
all that is needed is how to program the delay.

Mike




Lee Buller wrote:
 
 I know that sequencing of Rigs and Amps has been an issue with many brands
 of radios.  As I am researching the features of the K3, I did not see any
 parameter in the documentation that would set a delay.  So, I went to the
 list archives (see I can look things up) and found this answer.
 
 Eric Wrote last October
 
 If a radio has proper Key-Out before RF sequencing, like the K3 and K2  
 do, this is NOT necessary. We have no problem running with relay based  
 amplifiers, including those with large, slow relays, like the SB-220 etc. 
 
 A few radios out there have a TX loop feature, but most others do not.  
 Its not needed with the K3. 
 
 73, Eric   WA6HHQ
 
From what I gather from his response, is that the sequence is already
built in the firmware of the K3 as well as the K2.  So the K3 will not
squirt-out RF until the relay circuit is closed...or should I say the
firmware makes sure the switching transistor is on before emitting RF.
 
 Is that the case?  Therefore, no special parameter would be needed.  I
 would like a clarification of this feature from the users and what users
 have found in real-life.
 
 Lee Buller
 K0WA
 It is DANGEROUS to read the manual before getting the rig.
 
 
  
 
 In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you
 don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you
 can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some
 Common Sense.  Is Common Sense divine?
 ___
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 Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
 
 

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Re: [Elecraft] Key-Out of the K3

[w6jd]

I find it works well with my ALS-600.

Doug, W6JD
K3/100 #23
K2/100 #1626

-- Original message -- 
From: Barry N1EU [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 
 Lee, it would help if you mentioned what amplifier YOU would be interfacing 
 to the K3. My experience with Brand X amplifier might have no bearing on 
 you. 
 
 73, 
 Barry N1EU 
 
 
 Lee Buller wrote: 
  
  Is that the case? Therefore, no special parameter would be needed. I 
  would like a clarification of this feature from the users and what users 
  have found in real-life. 
  
 
 -- 
 View this message in context: 
 http://www.nabble.com/Key-Out-of-the-K3-tp15295805p15296615.html 
 Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 
 
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