Re: [EM] IFNOP Method (was Re: Question about Condorcet methods)

2006-10-18 Thread raphfrk

I assume you mean the "later no harm" property?

In effect, this means that you cannot look at a later choice on a ballot until you are sure one of the following 3 conditions is true

a) the candidate at the current choice is already elected
b) the candidate at the current choice cannot be elected
c) the later choices can in no way affect the election of the current choice

c) folds in on a) and b) as if later choices cannot affect election/elimination of the current candidate then you already know if the candidate is elected or eliminated.

In effect, the process has to be:

1) Look at all first choices
2) elect and/or eliminate some candidates based on current choice total
3) reweight ballots and recompute totals using the highest candidate on each ballot still undecided
4) goto 2) unless all seats filled

Basically, all you will have is a list of candidates and a total for each candidate. You don't know voter rankings as you are not allowed to look at them. How can you determine who is elected or eliminated ? IRV seems the only reasonable way of doing it. The only possible other piece of info is the rankings of eliminated and elected candidates, but I don't see how useful they would be.

Maybe asset voting could be used. After the round, each candidate can give some/all his votes to other candidates. Any candidate above the quota gets elected, and also candidates can resign. Each ballot is then rescaled based on what percentage was "spent" by its current holder. However, if asset voting is used, then there is no point in doing IRV as well. I guess it could be used as a deadlock breaker or something.



Raphfrk

Interesting site
"what if anyone could modify the laws"

www.wikocracy.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; election-methods@electorama.com
Sent: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [EM] IFNOP Method (was Re:  Question about Condorcet methods)









Maybe there is some potential in doing the IRV style "never  
considering all the given opinions" in some better way. I don't have  
any opinion yet on if this is that case but maybe something can be  
found.

Juho Laatu



 





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Re: [EM] IFNOP Method (was Re: Question about Condorcet methods)

2006-10-18 Thread Dave Ketchum
Given:
35 AC
33 BC
32 C

I see:
  IRV will discard C, letting A win.
  Condorcet will see 65 C winning over 35 A

I LIKE Condorcet.  What does this mean below?

DWK

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:55:53 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I assume you mean the later no harm property?
 
 In effect, this means that you cannot look at a later choice on a ballot 
 until you are sure one of the following 3 conditions is true
 
 a) the candidate at the current choice is already elected
 b) the candidate at the current choice cannot be elected
 c) the later choices can in no way affect the election of the current choice
 
 c) folds in on a) and b) as if later choices cannot affect 
 election/elimination of the current candidate then you already know if 
 the candidate is elected or eliminated.
 
 In effect, the process has to be:
 
 1) Look at all first choices
 2) elect and/or eliminate some candidates based on current choice total
 3) reweight ballots and recompute totals using the highest candidate on 
 each ballot still undecided
 4) goto 2) unless all seats filled
 
 Basically, all you will have is a list of candidates and a total for 
 each candidate.  You don't know voter rankings as you are not allowed to 
 look at them.  How can you determine who is elected or eliminated ?  IRV 
 seems the only reasonable way of doing it.  The only possible other 
 piece of info is the rankings of eliminated and elected candidates, but 
 I don't see how useful they would be.
 
 Maybe asset voting could be used.  After the round, each candidate can 
 give some/all his votes to other candidates.  Any candidate above the 
 quota gets elected, and also candidates can resign.  Each ballot is then 
 rescaled based on what percentage was spent by its current holder.  
 However, if asset voting is used, then there is no point in doing IRV as 
 well.  I guess it could be used as a deadlock breaker or something.
 
 Raphfrk
 
 Interesting site
 what if anyone could modify the laws
 
 www.wikocracy.com
  
  
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; election-methods@electorama.com
 Sent: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 9:24 PM
 Subject: Re: [EM] IFNOP Method (was Re: Question about Condorcet methods)
 
 Maybe there is some potential in doing the IRV style never  
 considering all the given opinions in some better way. I don't have  
 any opinion yet on if this is that case but maybe something can be  
 found.
 
 Juho Laatu
-- 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]people.clarityconnect.com/webpages3/davek
  Dave Ketchum   108 Halstead Ave, Owego, NY  13827-1708   607-687-5026
Do to no one what you would not want done to you.
  If you want peace, work for justice.



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