Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
Xiao-Yong Jin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Eddward DeVilla [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I feel tempted to bring up my suggestion of [markup|text] format again, but I've been resisting because I feel like a develish nag. So [*|at-syntax] could still be html specific if you really want something html specific, but there would be something that could be portable to all export formats. It would just be a matter of deciding what 'org' marks should be supported and making sure exporters try to support them. And of course there are other ways to get around *at syntax*. I would vote against heavily mark-up format like that. I guess the original design of org-mode is to make a simple text file that can make personal information organization much simpler in emacs, as opposed to those half-mark-up languages like emacs-muse. FWIW, I second this. -- Bastien ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
About escaping characters in LaTeX, here is the rule I'm trying to stick
to:
1. If a character is a special character in LaTeX, org-export-latex.el
will escape it (so that this character will be correctly displayed in
the resulting .dvi.)
2. If you escape such a character in the Org source file, then this
character won't be escaped in the LaTeX source file, meaning that you
want to refer to the special meaning of this character in LaTeX.
I don't use any notion of Org's special character.
As long as this approach handles 99% of the special characters issues, I
think it's better not to try to invent any new specific Org syntax or to
impose new writing conventions...
I will work on the relevant code for that this week, let's see what
happen then.
Thanks,
Daniel Clemente [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yes
Sometimes the \ means „don't escape, sometimes not.
Are you okay with this:
Org = LaTeX
\~ = ~
\% = %
\# = #
\{ = {
\} = }
\ =
\_ = _
\^ = ^
(i.e. preventing special characters from being converted.)
Mmm... some of those characters /can/ already be written directly
and they won't be interpreted, so you suggest adding a second method
(ex: \# besides # ). Maybe some users find this confusing and prefer
just one way to write each sign.
What do other people think? Should both # and \# write # ?
But your proposal would convert \ into the generic escaping character.
This is good since then you can always write \% (or with any
character of the list) and you know it will be escaped.
But this is bad because this would only work on the characters you
proposed, not on all. Ex \[ would probably write \[ and not [
I would suggest:
1. Using \# just for signs that are part of org's syntax: _ ^
2. Developing a general way to include a literal text without
processing of org's syntax. For instance, the string *word* where both
asterisks should be visible at the exported text (instead of a bold
word). That can be implemented with start-end markers (ex:
literalsome *unprocessed* text/literal) or with a marker before
each sign: (ex: some \*unprocessed\* text).
1 and 2 can be combined if \# works with exactly all syntax
elements, that means, all elements which would otherwise change the
meaning and processing of the text. For instance:
\*
\/
\[
\]
\#
\|
\=
etc.
Of course, also \\ must be present to write a literal \
For the signs which are not part of org's syntax, you wouldn't need
to write \ Ex: \( is unnecesary since ( has no meaning in org.
Sorry for starting anothed discussion :-)
Daniel
--
Bastien
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Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
- you write C-x 8 SPC in your org files
- C-x 8 SPC is exported to nbsp; on HTML
- C-x 8 SPC is exported to ~ on HTML
- ~ continues working normally: produces ~ on HTML and \~{} on LaTeX
100% okay. And you can add:
- \~ will insert ~ in the LaTeX source
Yes
Sometimes the \ means „don't escape, sometimes not.
Are you okay with this:
Org = LaTeX
\~ = ~
\% = %
\# = #
\{ = {
\} = }
\ =
\_ = _
\^ = ^
(i.e. preventing special characters from being converted.)
Mmm... some of those characters /can/ already be written directly
and they won't be interpreted, so you suggest adding a second method
(ex: \# besides # ). Maybe some users find this confusing and prefer
just one way to write each sign.
What do other people think? Should both # and \# write # ?
But your proposal would convert \ into the generic escaping character.
This is good since then you can always write \% (or with any
character of the list) and you know it will be escaped.
But this is bad because this would only work on the characters you
proposed, not on all. Ex \[ would probably write \[ and not [
I would suggest:
1. Using \# just for signs that are part of org's syntax: _ ^
2. Developing a general way to include a literal text without
processing of org's syntax. For instance, the string *word* where both
asterisks should be visible at the exported text (instead of a bold
word). That can be implemented with start-end markers (ex:
literalsome *unprocessed* text/literal) or with a marker before
each sign: (ex: some \*unprocessed\* text).
1 and 2 can be combined if \# works with exactly all syntax
elements, that means, all elements which would otherwise change the
meaning and processing of the text. For instance:
\*
\/
\[
\]
\#
\|
\=
etc.
Of course, also \\ must be present to write a literal \
For the signs which are not part of org's syntax, you wouldn't need
to write \ Ex: \( is unnecesary since ( has no meaning in org.
Sorry for starting anothed discussion :-)
Daniel
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Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
I should add that the @emat-syntax@/em:
- is too HTML-specific (we need something that exports as good to
LaTeX as to HTML)
- and sometimes it isn't clear what to write. For instance if I want
to write [1] without being processed as a footnote (on a document with
footnotes on); something like @span[@/span1@span]@/span would
be too complex.
@strong@emGreetings@/em@/strong :-)
Daniel
2007/11/9, Daniel Clemente [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
- you write C-x 8 SPC in your org files
- C-x 8 SPC is exported to nbsp; on HTML
- C-x 8 SPC is exported to ~ on HTML
- ~ continues working normally: produces ~ on HTML and \~{} on LaTeX
100% okay. And you can add:
- \~ will insert ~ in the LaTeX source
Yes
Sometimes the \ means „don't escape, sometimes not.
Are you okay with this:
Org = LaTeX
\~ = ~
\% = %
\# = #
\{ = {
\} = }
\ =
\_ = _
\^ = ^
(i.e. preventing special characters from being converted.)
Mmm... some of those characters /can/ already be written directly
and they won't be interpreted, so you suggest adding a second method
(ex: \# besides # ). Maybe some users find this confusing and prefer
just one way to write each sign.
What do other people think? Should both # and \# write # ?
But your proposal would convert \ into the generic escaping character.
This is good since then you can always write \% (or with any
character of the list) and you know it will be escaped.
But this is bad because this would only work on the characters you
proposed, not on all. Ex \[ would probably write \[ and not [
I would suggest:
1. Using \# just for signs that are part of org's syntax: _ ^
2. Developing a general way to include a literal text without
processing of org's syntax. For instance, the string *word* where both
asterisks should be visible at the exported text (instead of a bold
word). That can be implemented with start-end markers (ex:
literalsome *unprocessed* text/literal) or with a marker before
each sign: (ex: some \*unprocessed\* text).
1 and 2 can be combined if \# works with exactly all syntax
elements, that means, all elements which would otherwise change the
meaning and processing of the text. For instance:
\*
\/
\[
\]
\#
\|
\=
etc.
Of course, also \\ must be present to write a literal \
For the signs which are not part of org's syntax, you wouldn't need
to write \ Ex: \( is unnecesary since ( has no meaning in org.
Sorry for starting anothed discussion :-)
Daniel
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Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
I feel tempted to bring up my suggestion of [markup|text] format
again, but I've been resisting because I feel like a develish nag. So
[*|at-syntax] could still be html specific if you really want
something html specific, but there would be something that could be
portable to all export formats. It would just be a matter of deciding
what 'org' marks should be supported and making sure exporters try to
support them. And of course there are other ways to get around *at
syntax*.
Edd
On Nov 9, 2007 1:59 PM, Daniel Clemente [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I should add that the @emat-syntax@/em:
- is too HTML-specific (we need something that exports as good to
LaTeX as to HTML)
- and sometimes it isn't clear what to write. For instance if I want
to write [1] without being processed as a footnote (on a document with
footnotes on); something like @span[@/span1@span]@/span would
be too complex.
@strong@emGreetings@/em@/strong :-)
Daniel
2007/11/9, Daniel Clemente [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
- you write C-x 8 SPC in your org files
- C-x 8 SPC is exported to nbsp; on HTML
- C-x 8 SPC is exported to ~ on HTML
- ~ continues working normally: produces ~ on HTML and \~{} on LaTeX
100% okay. And you can add:
- \~ will insert ~ in the LaTeX source
Yes
Sometimes the \ means „don't escape, sometimes not.
Are you okay with this:
Org = LaTeX
\~ = ~
\% = %
\# = #
\{ = {
\} = }
\ =
\_ = _
\^ = ^
(i.e. preventing special characters from being converted.)
Mmm... some of those characters /can/ already be written directly
and they won't be interpreted, so you suggest adding a second method
(ex: \# besides # ). Maybe some users find this confusing and prefer
just one way to write each sign.
What do other people think? Should both # and \# write # ?
But your proposal would convert \ into the generic escaping character.
This is good since then you can always write \% (or with any
character of the list) and you know it will be escaped.
But this is bad because this would only work on the characters you
proposed, not on all. Ex \[ would probably write \[ and not [
I would suggest:
1. Using \# just for signs that are part of org's syntax: _ ^
2. Developing a general way to include a literal text without
processing of org's syntax. For instance, the string *word* where both
asterisks should be visible at the exported text (instead of a bold
word). That can be implemented with start-end markers (ex:
literalsome *unprocessed* text/literal) or with a marker before
each sign: (ex: some \*unprocessed\* text).
1 and 2 can be combined if \# works with exactly all syntax
elements, that means, all elements which would otherwise change the
meaning and processing of the text. For instance:
\*
\/
\[
\]
\#
\|
\=
etc.
Of course, also \\ must be present to write a literal \
For the signs which are not part of org's syntax, you wouldn't need
to write \ Ex: \( is unnecesary since ( has no meaning in org.
Sorry for starting anothed discussion :-)
Daniel
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Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
Eddward DeVilla [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I feel tempted to bring up my suggestion of [markup|text] format again, but I've been resisting because I feel like a develish nag. So [*|at-syntax] could still be html specific if you really want something html specific, but there would be something that could be portable to all export formats. It would just be a matter of deciding what 'org' marks should be supported and making sure exporters try to support them. And of course there are other ways to get around *at syntax*. I would vote against heavily mark-up format like that. I guess the original design of org-mode is to make a simple text file that can make personal information organization much simpler in emacs, as opposed to those half-mark-up languages like emacs-muse. I would suggest to keep current method, which is converting everything that could be converted. To resolve the complication in some circumstances where conversion of `[1]' or `_', `^' and etc. is not wanted, I would propose that we can just use one of the mark-ups, `=code=', and make it be actually `=verbatim='. These are just what I think. Probably there is another way to go: merge with emacs-muse! Xiao-Yong -- c/*__o/* \ * (__ */\ ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
If you use C-x 8 SPC in a text file, you probably want to export it
as ~ in LaTeX, not to include that Unicode character directly.
This is what i suggested.
Ok, I misunderstood because you said „so we should avoid to handle
this in Org source file
But this conversion is a strange one,
Why?
Well, I didn't know the character inserted by C-x 8 SPC, and I
suppose most people don't use it frequently. However, it could be used
and that would be simple. For instance:
- you write C-x 8 SPC in your org files
- C-x 8 SPC is exported to nbsp; on HTML
- C-x 8 SPC is exported to ~ on HTML
- ~ continues working normally: produces ~ on HTML and \~{} on LaTeX
therefore it may be besser to offer a syntax for the ~ (non-breaking
space) in LaTeX. For instance \~ or ~
I think I misunderstood at some point. For me \~ means protect the
tilde character from conversion which means don't escape the tilde,
which results into a LaTeX nonbreaking-space (~).
But we don't need to „protect the tilde from conversion because ~
already writes the tilde unconverted. \~ is still free to other uses.
Sometimes the \ means „don't escape, sometimes not. For instance
at \- it wouldn't mean „insert a hyphen, but „breaking allowed.
Yes, that's confusing...
Daniel
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Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
Daniel Clemente [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you use C-x 8 SPC in a text file, you probably want to export it as ~ in LaTeX, not to include that Unicode character directly. This is what i suggested. But this conversion is a strange one, Why? therefore it may be besser to offer a syntax for the ~ (non-breaking space) in LaTeX. For instance \~ or ~ I think I misunderstood at some point. For me \~ means protect the tilde character from conversion which means don't escape the tilde, which results into a LaTeX nonbreaking-space (~). Note that this is also the case for %: \% unescape the % character, then starts a comment in the LaTeX source. My point about letting C-x 8 SPC being converted into ~ was this: those people who are likely to use nonbreaking spaces are also those who won't be scared by using non-ascii characters such as C-x 8 SPC in their Org files. I might be wrong on this. -- Bastien ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
Daniel Clemente [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
- you write C-x 8 SPC in your org files
- C-x 8 SPC is exported to nbsp; on HTML
- C-x 8 SPC is exported to ~ on HTML
- ~ continues working normally: produces ~ on HTML and \~{} on LaTeX
100% okay. And you can add:
- \~ will insert ~ in the LaTeX source
Sometimes the \ means „don't escape, sometimes not.
Are you okay with this:
Org = LaTeX
\~ = ~
\% = %
\# = #
\{ = {
\} = }
\ =
\_ = _
\^ = ^
(i.e. preventing special characters from being converted.)
--
Bastien
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Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
Daniel Clemente [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sorry, I wanted to say the symbol for „*nonbreaking space* could be \~ , instead of just ~ I think this would be weird. By nonbreaking character, I meant the output of C-x 8 SPC (try it). This is iso-8859-1, not ascii, so we should avoid to handle this in Org source file -- but my bet is that people who want to insert nonbreaking characters are also people using other charsets than ascii. Is it better to enter the unicode character directly, or offering something like \~ ? For me \~ would rather mean don't convert ~, which means: output ~ (at least in LaTeX, since the normal LaTeX conversion for ~ is \~) -- Bastien ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
On 11/3/07, Bastien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: William Henney [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here is what I have managed to work out. Apologies for answering in org syntax :) Hey this is great. I ♥ typesetting :) Me too. And the possibilities for new smilies are endless: •⋖ ⌣ Cheers Will -- Dr William Henney, Centro de Radioastronomía y Astrofísica, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Campus Morelia ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 03:26:19PM +, Bastien wrote: Adam Spiers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Another XHTML export question - is it possible to export special symbols such as nbsp; ? If not, perhaps the @ syntax could be extended from simple tags to these too, i.e. @nbsp; ? Have a look at `org-html-entities'. You can use \nbsp in Org source file, it'll be converted to nbsp; smoothly. Perfect, thanks! Probably worth adding this to the docs? ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
Oops! -- : dash, not hyphen :-) „hyphen is - ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
Hi, Bastien suggested in other thread adding ~ to get a „protected space in LaTeX, and now I discover that a \nbsp is also to get a protected space in HTML. So why can't we use the same syntax for LaTeX and HTML? Some other similar signs: \- : breaking allowed ~ : protected space -- : hyphen Also - , --- It would be nice if the behaviour in HTML and LaTeX were the same. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
Adam Spiers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Another XHTML export question - is it possible to export special symbols such as nbsp; ? If not, perhaps the @ syntax could be extended from simple tags to these too, i.e. @nbsp; ? Have a look at `org-html-entities'. You can use \nbsp in Org source file, it'll be converted to nbsp; smoothly. -- Bastien ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
Adam Spiers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You can use \nbsp in Org source file, it'll be converted to nbsp; smoothly. Perfect, thanks! Probably worth adding this to the docs? Yes, you're right. I guess (info (org)Enhancing text) is the appropriate place for that. -- Bastien ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
Daniel Clemente [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bastien suggested in other thread adding ~ to get a „protected space in LaTeX, and now I discover that a \nbsp is also to get a protected space in HTML. So why can't we use the same syntax for LaTeX and HTML? Some other similar signs: \- : breaking allowed ~ : protected space -- : hyphen Also - , --- What about this: | Org| HTML | LaTeX | |++---| | \- | shy; | \-| | ~ or | nbsp; | ~ | | -- | - | --| | ---| -- | --- | I'm not sure about the the last two columns. Maybe it's simpler to let -- and --- be -- and --- in HTML output as well. -- Bastien ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
Hi list On 11/2/07, Bastien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure about the the last two columns. Maybe it's simpler to let -- and --- be -- and --- in HTML output as well. Shouldn't they be `endash;' and `emdash;' in HTML? http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/dtds.html#a_dtd_Symbols Cheers Will -- Dr William Henney, Centro de Radioastronomía y Astrofísica, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Campus Morelia ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
Shouldn't they be `endash;' and `emdash;' in HTML? http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/dtds.html#a_dtd_Symbols You mean ndash; and mdash; ndash; and mdash; for -- and --- respectively is ok. I think there exist no and - shy; with \-and nbsp; with ~ are also good... There exists also #8203; (zero-width space), but that's not a sign for breaking words into syllables; shy; is in addition better implemented. That means that following signs: \- ~ -- --- would have a special meaning when being exported on all org documents. I don't know if ~ is a good election. It should be looked for inside of words (li~ke this), but probably excluding URLs. Maybe that causes more problems to the users who want to write a literal ~. The symbol for „breaking allowed could also be \~ ... That's an inconsistency with LaTeX ~, but is consistent with LaTeX's \- And that would leave ~ untouched and just use \- and \~ for hyphenation. Greets, Daniel ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
I don't know if ~ is a good election. It should be looked for inside of words (li~ke this), but probably excluding URLs. Maybe that causes more problems to the users who want to write a literal ~. I also think this is too complex. The symbol for „breaking allowed could also be \~ ... That's an inconsistency with LaTeX ~, but is consistent with LaTeX's \- And that would leave ~ untouched and just use \- and \~ for hyphenation. What is wrong with \- ? It seems enough to me. -- Bastien ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] XHTML export - nbsp; etc.
On 11/2/07, Daniel Clemente [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shouldn't they be `endash;' and `emdash;' in HTML? http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/dtds.html#a_dtd_Symbols You mean ndash; and mdash; Yes. Thanks for the correction. Personally, I tend to just use the unicode characters directly in my org file. This works quite well om the whole (see attached example). Cheers Will -- Dr William Henney, Centro de Radioastronomía y Astrofísica, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Campus Morelia unicode.org Description: Binary data ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
