Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le ven. 4 mars 2022 à 02:13, Rod Webster  a écrit :

> >  Anyone close to ROS?
> Tormach. Anyone close to Tormach?
>


Maybe open a friendly issue/discussion there

https://github.com/tormach/hal_ros_control

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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, 3 March 2022 19:55:07 EST Rod Webster wrote:
> >Some of us remember when the EMC corporation sent their lawyers
> >calling because we had a similar name to them. No matter that we had
> >it first.
> 
I'm one of them. And I was pissed at the audacity of a bookkeeper who was 
a johnny come lately not even worthy of capitalizing the J.
OTOH, it did force a more useful name on us. So it wasn't all bad.

> Before my time.
> There are plenty of examples where the user of an untrademarked name
> has had to cease and desist after another organization trademarks a
> word already in use.
> Even to the extent of an Australian  Winemaker called Chardon being
> taken to task by Moet and Chandon to name a small local example.
> Or Aussie made Ugg Boots losing the name to  a US trademark... which
> was the blatant hijacking of a product.
> 
> That's why I hold a trademark of my brand.
> 
> This is quite different as we are not purporting to be Ethercat or
> trading as Ethercat. We are just talking about licensing where credit
> has to be given. Its not even close to the EMC example.
> 
> 
> Rod Webster
> *1300 896 832*
> +61 435 765 611
> Vehicle Modifications Network
> www.vehiclemods.net.au
> 
> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 10:37, andy pugh  wrote:
> > On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 16:17, gene heskett  
wrote:
> > > I don't see the future risk as zero...
> > 
> > Some of us remember when the EMC corporation sent their lawyers
> > calling because we had a similar name to them. No matter that we had
> > it first.
> > 
> > Beckhof have been very clear that they own the word EtherCAT, we
> > wouldn't even have the same wiggle room we had last time (and last
> > time we were in the right and still stood little chance)
> > 
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> > 
> > 
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> 
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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis





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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Stefan Asmus]

Below is Daniel Rogge ( Tormach CEO) email. He seems happy to correspond via 
email to people who have questions about their products. I have spoken to him 
about the software for their new ZA6 robot and he was happy to answer questions.

dro...@tormach.com

From: Rod Webster 
Sent: Friday, 4 March 2022 12:11 PM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free 
membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

>  Anyone close to ROS?
Tormach. Anyone close to Tormach?

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 11:07, Steffen Möller  wrote:

> Rod,
>
> I wish some of our LinuxCNC Gurus would know some of the ROS Gurus and
> jointly meditate over this. We should possibly not discuss this too much
> as a sole CNC/robotics problem. This tech is useful whenever you need to
> synchronize something between multiple machines/devices.
>
> I truly don't know what we should be doing as a community. Anyone close
> to ROS?
>
> Best,
> Steffen
>
>
> On 03.03.22 20:55, Rod Webster wrote:
> > Steffen
> >
> > You have done some amazing work and we now know what we are dealing with
> > rather than just guessing as we've done before.
> >
> > I think its not about the last 20 years but about the next 20. I think we
> > will see an increasing number of ethercat capable devices in use as more
> > vendors adopt the technology.
> > There are also an increasing number of linuxcnc users using the software
> on
> > commercial projects and retrofits of commercial machines.
> >
> > ROS appear to be simply embedding the SOEM in a sub folder in their
> > ethercat master wrapper based on an article they link to in the readme. I
> > guess they can do this under  the GPL.
> >
> > Any restrictions appear to be placed on users of the technology, not the
> > software developer. Linuxcnc does not use software, our members do. This
> is
> > an important distinction.
> > I think this allows Linuxcnc to treat the proposed driver as being GPL'd
> at
> > a distribution level like ROS has.
> >
> > Now we know of the SOEM's existence, it would be preferable to use it
> over
> > the IgH ethercat master if it's compatible with our architecture. It's a
> > much tighter integration then.
> >
> > It's clear that membership is not required. I can't see any impediment to
> > building a separate repository like has been done with mesaflash that
> > embeds the SOEM like ROS has done. If the rules change, it will be simple
> > to excise the orphaned child or just remove the SOEM subfolder.
> >
> >
> > Rod Webster
> > *1300 896 832*
> > +61 435 765 611
> > Vehicle Modifications Network
> > www.vehiclemods.net.au
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 02:22, Steffen Möller 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Marc,
> >>
> >> yes, something like http://wiki.ros.org/soem ? I have not followed that
> >> up.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Steffen
> >>
> >> On 03.03.22 16:54, Marc Wang wrote:
> >>> Hi Steffen,
> >>>
> >>> By ROS, are you referring to Robotic Operating System (
> >> https://www.ros.org/)?
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Marc
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> From: andy pugh 
> >>> Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:49 AM
> >>> To: EMC developers 
> >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free
> >> membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!
> >>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller 
> >> wrote:
>  But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
>  are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any
> legal
>  problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about
> the
>  future
> >>> There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
> >>> promise not to turn evil"
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> atp
> >>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> >>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> >>> lunatics."
> >>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-developers mailing list
> >>> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-developers mailing list
> >>> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-developers mailing list
> >> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>
> > ___
> > Emc-developers mailing list
> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>
>
> 

Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Rod Webster]

>  Anyone close to ROS?
Tormach. Anyone close to Tormach?

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 11:07, Steffen Möller  wrote:

> Rod,
>
> I wish some of our LinuxCNC Gurus would know some of the ROS Gurus and
> jointly meditate over this. We should possibly not discuss this too much
> as a sole CNC/robotics problem. This tech is useful whenever you need to
> synchronize something between multiple machines/devices.
>
> I truly don't know what we should be doing as a community. Anyone close
> to ROS?
>
> Best,
> Steffen
>
>
> On 03.03.22 20:55, Rod Webster wrote:
> > Steffen
> >
> > You have done some amazing work and we now know what we are dealing with
> > rather than just guessing as we've done before.
> >
> > I think its not about the last 20 years but about the next 20. I think we
> > will see an increasing number of ethercat capable devices in use as more
> > vendors adopt the technology.
> > There are also an increasing number of linuxcnc users using the software
> on
> > commercial projects and retrofits of commercial machines.
> >
> > ROS appear to be simply embedding the SOEM in a sub folder in their
> > ethercat master wrapper based on an article they link to in the readme. I
> > guess they can do this under  the GPL.
> >
> > Any restrictions appear to be placed on users of the technology, not the
> > software developer. Linuxcnc does not use software, our members do. This
> is
> > an important distinction.
> > I think this allows Linuxcnc to treat the proposed driver as being GPL'd
> at
> > a distribution level like ROS has.
> >
> > Now we know of the SOEM's existence, it would be preferable to use it
> over
> > the IgH ethercat master if it's compatible with our architecture. It's a
> > much tighter integration then.
> >
> > It's clear that membership is not required. I can't see any impediment to
> > building a separate repository like has been done with mesaflash that
> > embeds the SOEM like ROS has done. If the rules change, it will be simple
> > to excise the orphaned child or just remove the SOEM subfolder.
> >
> >
> > Rod Webster
> > *1300 896 832*
> > +61 435 765 611
> > Vehicle Modifications Network
> > www.vehiclemods.net.au
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 02:22, Steffen Möller 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Marc,
> >>
> >> yes, something like http://wiki.ros.org/soem ? I have not followed that
> >> up.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Steffen
> >>
> >> On 03.03.22 16:54, Marc Wang wrote:
> >>> Hi Steffen,
> >>>
> >>> By ROS, are you referring to Robotic Operating System (
> >> https://www.ros.org/)?
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Marc
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> From: andy pugh 
> >>> Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:49 AM
> >>> To: EMC developers 
> >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free
> >> membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!
> >>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller 
> >> wrote:
>  But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
>  are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any
> legal
>  problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about
> the
>  future
> >>> There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
> >>> promise not to turn evil"
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> atp
> >>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> >>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> >>> lunatics."
> >>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-developers mailing list
> >>> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-developers mailing list
> >>> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-developers mailing list
> >> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>
> > ___
> > Emc-developers mailing list
> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Steffen Möller]

Rod,

I wish some of our LinuxCNC Gurus would know some of the ROS Gurus and
jointly meditate over this. We should possibly not discuss this too much
as a sole CNC/robotics problem. This tech is useful whenever you need to
synchronize something between multiple machines/devices.

I truly don't know what we should be doing as a community. Anyone close
to ROS?

Best,
Steffen


On 03.03.22 20:55, Rod Webster wrote:

Steffen

You have done some amazing work and we now know what we are dealing with
rather than just guessing as we've done before.

I think its not about the last 20 years but about the next 20. I think we
will see an increasing number of ethercat capable devices in use as more
vendors adopt the technology.
There are also an increasing number of linuxcnc users using the software on
commercial projects and retrofits of commercial machines.

ROS appear to be simply embedding the SOEM in a sub folder in their
ethercat master wrapper based on an article they link to in the readme. I
guess they can do this under  the GPL.

Any restrictions appear to be placed on users of the technology, not the
software developer. Linuxcnc does not use software, our members do. This is
an important distinction.
I think this allows Linuxcnc to treat the proposed driver as being GPL'd at
a distribution level like ROS has.

Now we know of the SOEM's existence, it would be preferable to use it over
the IgH ethercat master if it's compatible with our architecture. It's a
much tighter integration then.

It's clear that membership is not required. I can't see any impediment to
building a separate repository like has been done with mesaflash that
embeds the SOEM like ROS has done. If the rules change, it will be simple
to excise the orphaned child or just remove the SOEM subfolder.


Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 02:22, Steffen Möller  wrote:


Hi Marc,

yes, something like http://wiki.ros.org/soem ? I have not followed that
up.

Best,
Steffen

On 03.03.22 16:54, Marc Wang wrote:

Hi Steffen,

By ROS, are you referring to Robotic Operating System (

https://www.ros.org/)?


Regards,
Marc


From: andy pugh 
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:49 AM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free

membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller 

wrote:

But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any legal
problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about the
future

There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
promise not to turn evil"

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Rod Webster]

>Some of us remember when the EMC corporation sent their lawyers
>calling because we had a similar name to them. No matter that we had
>it first.

Before my time.
There are plenty of examples where the user of an untrademarked name has
had to cease and desist after another organization trademarks a word
already in use.
Even to the extent of an Australian  Winemaker called Chardon being taken
to task by Moet and Chandon to name a small local example.
Or Aussie made Ugg Boots losing the name to  a US trademark... which was
the blatant hijacking of a product.

That's why I hold a trademark of my brand.

This is quite different as we are not purporting to be Ethercat or
trading as Ethercat. We are just talking about licensing where credit has
to be given. Its not even close to the EMC example.


Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 10:37, andy pugh  wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 16:17, gene heskett  wrote:
>
> > I don't see the future risk as zero...
>
> Some of us remember when the EMC corporation sent their lawyers
> calling because we had a similar name to them. No matter that we had
> it first.
>
> Beckhof have been very clear that they own the word EtherCAT, we
> wouldn't even have the same wiggle room we had last time (and last
> time we were in the right and still stood little chance)
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 16:17, gene heskett  wrote:

> I don't see the future risk as zero...

Some of us remember when the EMC corporation sent their lawyers
calling because we had a similar name to them. No matter that we had
it first.

Beckhof have been very clear that they own the word EtherCAT, we
wouldn't even have the same wiggle room we had last time (and last
time we were in the right and still stood little chance)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] Learning and documentation writing rig build

[Jérémie Tarot]

Hi Rod,

Le jeu. 3 mars 2022 à 21:18, Rod Webster  a écrit :

> This almost describes my current project which is retrofitting a round
> column mill using ethercat drives and I/O modules, Safety relay, flood and
> mist coolant, VFD spindle control using RS485, optical spindle encoder,
> separate HMI enclosure.


I thought of it as being a reference build similar to your idea.
>

Nice, so I leave the EtherCAT part of the docs writing and videos to you,
great! 

More seriously, you perfectly read my mind talking about reference build.
Just instead of taking it at the machine level, I thought it would be
easier and potentialy more efficient to do it at the building blocks level.
There are no two identical machines, but many have  stepper/RnP/rail/limit
switches, or servo/screw/rail/scales axis subsystems. Half of the world has
a vfd+ac motor spindle, the other has a servo, etc.

I hope having a library of thoroughly documented reference susbsystem
builds could ease users life and provide better support while relieving
community support.


It has pneumatics for the mist, mains switching for coolant pump but no
> lubrication system, pressure sensors or level sensors.
>

I'd like to put all sorts of sensors because everyone love sensors... But
also as an exercise and because I'm a monitoring freak 



It's really way over the top for the hardware being used but I have
> certainly learnt a lot!
>

As I said, learning is the root of this idea and I wan't to give back the
fruits to the community. I also like to think that being written by a
rooky, and reviewed by MVPs, these contents will be even more beneficial to
newcomers...

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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le jeu. 3 mars 2022 à 16:14, Steffen Möller  a
écrit :

> Dear all,
>
> I had a phone conversation with the EtherCAT Technology Group's
> president, Martin Rostan, this morning.


Thanks a lot for taking care of this 


ETG's statutes (Satzung in German) do not allow non-legal entities to
> become members. Bummer.
>

Well, not that astonishing when you think about it.


I propose that we look into what ROS has come up with.


Let's hope they have infos to clarify this a bit...


Otherwise, I do

not know what this means for us, except to take care not to mix the
> EtherCAT codebase with the regular LinuxCNC.


Generally speaking, I think this should be the standard way of doing things
if we have to ship "foreign" code by ourselves.
Whether to put our glue in our main repository or in a separate one like
ROS...


To avoid paperwork that
> would not make much practical difference for anyone, we were discouraged
> to register a newly formed society that could be a member. But there may
> be other sorts of motivation to have something that can hold money for
> LinuxCNC. User meetings come to mind, and then this organization could
> also become a member as a side-event.
>

I'd fully support such an decision, like I support the just born FreeCAD
organization!

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Re: [Emc-developers] Learning and documentation writing rig build

[Rod Webster]

This almost describes my current project which is retrofitting a round
column mill using ethercat drives and I/O modules, Safety relay, flood and
mist coolant, VFD spindle control using RS485, optical spindle encoder,
separate HMI enclosure.
I thought of it as being a reference build similar to your idea.
It has pneumatics for the mist, mains switching for coolant pump but no
lubrication system, pressure sensors or level sensors.
It's really way over the top for the hardware being used but I have
certainly learnt a lot!

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 05:48, Jérémie Tarot  wrote:

> Good evening friends,
>
> Hope you're all well and safe...
>
> This message aims to get opinions and ideas as I'm thinking about building
> a learning and dev rig for documentation.
>
> It should gather most of the main hardware configs usually found on users
> machines:
> * Open loop, closed loop stepper and servo linear axis, with and without
> scales, with all kinds of limit/home switches.
> * Same for rotary?
> * Liquid circuit with pump, valves, level, flow, and pressure sensors (for
> lubrication and coolant).
> * Same for air and vacuum.
> * Pneumatic actuators.
> 
>
> Started thinking about this yesterday and, at the moment, the plan is:
>  * Ideally to use an sff server and a raspberry pi to have both computer
> platforms covered
> * use Mesa boards. Plan is to use a 7i80HD or 7i93 at the heart, and
> daughter cards for function groups. This is for a clean design aswell as
> being able to upgrade/switch features when needed. I'd gladly give the 7C81
> a shot too 
> * build some kind of rack to hold everything in the most compact way
> possible. Bonus point if I can make it transportable as I'm beginning to
> think it could also become a nice demo and teaching rig... Maybe put IT in
> the base, electronics on the back, hardware on the front and KVM... Well,
> somewhere else  may be a foldable arm?
> * Then start adding the systems one after the other to learn and improve
> and augment documentation and support contents (tutorials, videos,...)
> along the way.
>
> Of course the build of the rig itself would be documented!
>
> Would you please share what you think about the idea, if it good and worth
> the time and money, for the different purposes?
> How would you do somerhing like this? What features/functions would you
> build in?
>
> Thanks in advance for your answers
>
> TY
> Jérémie
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Rod Webster]

Steffen

You have done some amazing work and we now know what we are dealing with
rather than just guessing as we've done before.

I think its not about the last 20 years but about the next 20. I think we
will see an increasing number of ethercat capable devices in use as more
vendors adopt the technology.
There are also an increasing number of linuxcnc users using the software on
commercial projects and retrofits of commercial machines.

ROS appear to be simply embedding the SOEM in a sub folder in their
ethercat master wrapper based on an article they link to in the readme. I
guess they can do this under  the GPL.

Any restrictions appear to be placed on users of the technology, not the
software developer. Linuxcnc does not use software, our members do. This is
an important distinction.
I think this allows Linuxcnc to treat the proposed driver as being GPL'd at
a distribution level like ROS has.

Now we know of the SOEM's existence, it would be preferable to use it over
the IgH ethercat master if it's compatible with our architecture. It's a
much tighter integration then.

It's clear that membership is not required. I can't see any impediment to
building a separate repository like has been done with mesaflash that
embeds the SOEM like ROS has done. If the rules change, it will be simple
to excise the orphaned child or just remove the SOEM subfolder.


Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 02:22, Steffen Möller  wrote:

> Hi Marc,
>
> yes, something like http://wiki.ros.org/soem ? I have not followed that
> up.
>
> Best,
> Steffen
>
> On 03.03.22 16:54, Marc Wang wrote:
> > Hi Steffen,
> >
> > By ROS, are you referring to Robotic Operating System (
> https://www.ros.org/)?
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Marc
> >
> > 
> > From: andy pugh 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:49 AM
> > To: EMC developers 
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free
> membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!
> >
> > On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller 
> wrote:
> >
> >> But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
> >> are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any legal
> >> problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about the
> >> future
> > There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
> > promise not to turn evil"
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>
>
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[Emc-developers] Learning and documentation writing rig build

[Jérémie Tarot]

Good evening friends,

Hope you're all well and safe...

This message aims to get opinions and ideas as I'm thinking about building
a learning and dev rig for documentation.

It should gather most of the main hardware configs usually found on users
machines:
* Open loop, closed loop stepper and servo linear axis, with and without
scales, with all kinds of limit/home switches.
* Same for rotary?
* Liquid circuit with pump, valves, level, flow, and pressure sensors (for
lubrication and coolant).
* Same for air and vacuum.
* Pneumatic actuators.


Started thinking about this yesterday and, at the moment, the plan is:
 * Ideally to use an sff server and a raspberry pi to have both computer
platforms covered
* use Mesa boards. Plan is to use a 7i80HD or 7i93 at the heart, and
daughter cards for function groups. This is for a clean design aswell as
being able to upgrade/switch features when needed. I'd gladly give the 7C81
a shot too 
* build some kind of rack to hold everything in the most compact way
possible. Bonus point if I can make it transportable as I'm beginning to
think it could also become a nice demo and teaching rig... Maybe put IT in
the base, electronics on the back, hardware on the front and KVM... Well,
somewhere else  may be a foldable arm?
* Then start adding the systems one after the other to learn and improve
and augment documentation and support contents (tutorials, videos,...)
along the way.

Of course the build of the rig itself would be documented!

Would you please share what you think about the idea, if it good and worth
the time and money, for the different purposes?
How would you do somerhing like this? What features/functions would you
build in?

Thanks in advance for your answers

TY
Jérémie

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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Steffen Möller]

Hi Marc,

yes, something like http://wiki.ros.org/soem ? I have not followed that up.

Best,
Steffen

On 03.03.22 16:54, Marc Wang wrote:

Hi Steffen,

By ROS, are you referring to Robotic Operating System (https://www.ros.org/)?


Regards,
Marc


From: andy pugh 
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:49 AM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free 
membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller  wrote:


But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any legal
problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about the
future

There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
promise not to turn evil"

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, 3 March 2022 10:49:53 EST andy pugh wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller  
wrote:
> > But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
> > are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any
> > legal problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts
> > about the future
> 
> There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
> promise not to turn evil"

Indeed Andy. At this point, we've done well w/o it for what, 20 years 
now?

I don't see the future risk as zero... Their restriction on gpl2, renders 
it null and void. Be wary, very wary.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 





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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Marc Wang]

Hi Steffen,

By ROS, are you referring to Robotic Operating System (https://www.ros.org/)?


Regards,
Marc


From: andy pugh 
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:49 AM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free 
membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller  wrote:

> But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
> are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any legal
> problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about the
> future

There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
promise not to turn evil"

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller  wrote:

> But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
> are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any legal
> problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about the
> future

There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
promise not to turn evil"

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Steffen Möller]

Dear all,

I had a phone conversation with the EtherCAT Technology Group's
president, Martin Rostan, this morning. To get an impression, you find
him in this PodCast https://www.sps-magazin.de/podcasts/ (German). Mr
Rostan sends his regards, expresses that he has a heart for all the
mills and lathes in private cellars out there and for the enthusiasts
behind them. However, the initial information I received was wrong. The
ETG's statutes (Satzung in German) do not allow non-legal entities to
become members. Bummer.

Mr Rostan refrained from giving us any legal advise. That would be their
lawyers. But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any legal
problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about the
future, say if their company is bought. Most notably there is ROS and
the idea is that we could learn from them. He knows that the important
bit is that
https://github.com/OpenEtherCATsociety/SOEM/blob/master/LICENSE is
redistributed with the package. This effectively means that users they
become aware of are requested to get that free membership and that does
not change if LinuxCNC is a member or not.

I propose that we look into what ROS has come up with. Otherwise, I do
not know what this means for us, except to take care not to mix the
EtherCAT codebase with the regular LinuxCNC. To avoid paperwork that
would not make much practical difference for anyone, we were discouraged
to register a newly formed society that could be a member. But there may
be other sorts of motivation to have something that can hold money for
LinuxCNC. User meetings come to mind, and then this organization could
also become a member as a side-event.

What now?
Steffen




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